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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => General Internet News => Topic started by: AndreasM on October 27, 2002, 06:40:52 PM
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Some time ago we make a german interview with Michael Garlich (Titan) on the Amiga Future Page.
http://www.amigafuture.de/englisch/eng_interactive/eng_interviewtitan.php (http://www.amigafuture.de/englisch/eng_interactive/eng_interviewtitan.php)
http://www.amigafuture.de (http://www.amigafuture.de)
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Happy flaming :flame:
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> Happy flaming
Nah, he is entitled to an opinion, even if I disagree with some points. I hope that Titan will return to the Amiga when OS4 is out, though, as they seem to have some good software in the pipeline.
Kay
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Well AInc/Hyperion hasn't been very good (to make a huge understatement) in marketing AOS4 to the developers in the community. Titan can hardly be blamed for that.
/Björn
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A difficult job to market a non-existant product. Titan does the most reasonable thing: stick to MorphOS, then see what happens. But I still think something noticeable will come from Hyperion. At least we know that they are certainly working on it, something that cannot be said of AmigaInc.
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I don't think it was a good idea of the interviewer to put the word "official" between quotation marks with regard to this board being an official AmigaOne, there simply is no doubt from nobody, about this board being an official AmigaOne or not.
And in a matter of a week they will see just how much of a still-birth the AmigaOne really is. :-D IMO it is really sad to see Amiga companies, who have been "friends" in the past, choose sides, and backstab eachother with uncalled for FUD.
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MikeB:
I don't think it was a good idea of the interviewer to put the word "official" between quotation marks with regard to this board being an official AmigaOne, there simply is no doubt from nobody, about this board being an official AmigaOne or not.
To me it didn't seem like there were any doubts expressed about anything by the use of quotation marks. Apparently they referred to something like "the official hardware", as there can't really be any "official" hardware since no company owns the market and the customers. The interviewers use of the expression "new Amiga computers", without quotationmarks, was a far worse idea.
And in a matter of a week they will see just how much of a still-birth the AmigaOne really is.
What, you're suggesting that the success/failure of Eyetech's distribution of Teron CX boards should be judged by the sales during the first day(s)? :)
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Apparently they referred to something like "the official hardware"
I know what they meant, but if I let my sister read this she would interpret this differently. And of course this board is an official AmigaOne, and may use the brandname for which Amiga Inc paid millions of dollars. Brand names do matter and they are worth alot of money.
as there can't really be any "official" hardware since no company owns the market and the customers.
No, but companies do own brandnames. I don't think Microsoft would sell their company name even for billions of dollars.
What, you're suggesting that the success/failure of Eyetech's distribution of Teron CX boards should be judged by the sales during the first day(s)? :)
Better re-read, as that was not what I was saying.
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MO it is really sad to see Amiga companies, who have been "friends" in the past, choose sides, and backstab eachother with uncalled for FUD.
And somehow I'm not suprised that I never saw such a remark from
you when them Hyperion guys did the same over and over again ...
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And somehow I'm not suprised that I never saw such a remark from
Be sure that I *will* criticize Hyperion if they would make unfair comments in a public interview with regard to the Pegasos . Like for instance calling the product to be a still-birth or similar.
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I know what they meant,
There you have it then. As for your sister or other infrequent readers of interviews on Amigafuture.de, maybe there ought to be a link in every article to an Amiga history FAQ for newcomers...
It's obviously a site and an interview aimed at people who have an at least rudimentary insight and interest in the current Amiga situation.
And of course this board is an official AmigaOne, and may use the brandname
Yes of course, and as I said I, like you, don't think that the writer was referring to any doubt about that at all with those quotation marks. That's just not how I think anyone of us regular Amiga-site visitors would read it, OK.
No, but companies do own brandnames. I don't think Microsoft would [I don't think you meant "wouldn't"?] sell their company name
Quite, but that has nothing to do with what I wrote. I said that AInc doesn't own the market they're targeting, just as little as MS owns the market they're targeting. AInc bought trademarks, they didn't buy customers. Thus the whole "official" thing.
Better re-read, as that was not what I was saying.
You said that within one week "they" will know how much of a still-birth the AmigaOne will be.
That suggests that either the Eyetech distribution of the TeronCX boards will start within a timeframe of less than one week, or that... well... someone has already ordered a few thousand boards to build AmigaOS4-powered set-top boxes or something... ;)
Oh well, we'll wait.
BTW, you also said that you (presumably in this interview) saw an Amiga company "chosing sides" and "backstabbing eachother with uncalled-for FUD", whereas I saw a developer saying that since only one of the possibly interesting target OS alternatives is actually available, their products will at least initially only be available for that one target OS. Pretty self explanatory as far as I'm concerned. Let's just hope AmigaOS4 will be released soon and porting work can commence. (Wouldn't surprise me if a CS-PPC version was demoed running natively at WOASE. Would be a damn shame if not. By then we're in November 2002...)
When directly questioned on the subject he stated what he thought of the chances of the OS and hardware products in question. Apparently he doesn't agree with you and the Inc's marketing on those points, but that naturally doesn't make his opinion FUD or backstabbing. Heck, he even attacked the FUD marketing technique through his comments on how we have all seen it been used in the "MorphOS is illegal" campaign.
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It's obviously a site and an interview aimed at people who have an at least rudimentary insight and interest in the current Amiga situation.
Yes, but that does not imply all such interested readers understand what is being suggested or implied and therefor I think this was badly formulated.
Quite, but that has nothing to do with what I wrote. I said that AInc doesn't own the market they're targeting
Official was used in the interview with regard to an officially Amiga branded and Amiga Inc licenced product.
"MorphOS is illegal" campaign.
People continuously forget that Ralph Schimdt and Bill Buck made these allegations public themselves. IMO this should have stayed behind closed doors at time, but apparently the MorphOS team thought this would help them in some way, so then that's their choice.
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"no company owns the market and the customers"
@seehound
you really do talk crap.
the windowsOS market is owned by MicroSoft.
the MacOS/Apple HW market is owned by Apple.
the AmigaOS/HW market is owned by Amiga.inc.
No One else can use the names of any of these for them selfs.
IF you owne the IP you own that market no matter how big or small that market is.
WindowsOS can not own the MacOS market,
MacOS can not own WindowsOS market.
but you can take market share away from another.
Apple/MacOS could take 25% marketshare from Microsoft but then it would be
turnning that 25% into Apple/MacOS market, NOT apple owning 25% of the windows market.
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You see Mike, that is your problem:
Ben and others have been throwing mud for years, but still you
claim that the allegations were dragged into the public by the
MorphOS-team ....
Funny world you are living in !
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One can still keep a dialog with developers. Show API changes and so on. Tell them what to do -now- if they want to support AOS4 tomorrow and so on. What API's not to use etc. How to prepare their source code for a different compiler and so on and so on. AInc/Hyperion seem to do nothing in this area. If they want to keep developers outside their own realm interrested they have to maintain a dialog.
/Björn
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Official was used in the interview with regard to an officially Amiga branded and Amiga Inc licenced product.
Yes, noones's disputing that. I'm just saying that people reading the article understand that "official" was put in quotes because the TeronCX/A1 they refer to uses the Amiga trademark (i.e. "official" in quotes) and there can't be an official (without quotes) product targeting an open market. Nobody's suggesting that the Amiga trademark is free for anyone to use or anything like that.
If this was about e.g. a government monopoly on telephony infrastructure, then using the word official without quotes would be correct - the government owns the copper and fiber in the ground, this is the only option available for people who want to use telephony services, competition is not allowed. This is the official "option". Anyone laying their own cables would be an un-official operation.
This is not the case with a consumer product like computer hardware and software, it's an open market. There's no official product as long as there are alternatives and competition.
The TeronCX/A1 is ONE product distributed by ONE company, aimed at a market that has alternatives available.
Thus the quotation marks surrounding the word "official".
Write the author and request that they remove the word entirely if it bugs you so. You simply have to come to terms with that people who don't unreservedly and automatically agree with everything that emanates from whatever company that happens to own a certain trademark at a given time are not FUD-mongers, traitors, backstabbers or heretics.
Ralph Schimdt and Bill Buck made these allegations public themselves. IMO this should have stayed behind closed doors at time,
What? Come on! Just look at ANN. This crap was brought up and has been perpetuated by people like Hermans and fleecy ever since the MOS project was announced and long before anyone knew that Bill Buck even was still alive or had heard of something called Thendic. The embarrassing "we won't point fingers but our IP is being stolen and we'll shut you down after Sept. 1" Amiwest stunt is particularly noteworthy, and one of the more blatant examples of what Michael Garlich is referring to in the interview. Like both you and he says, if one has allegations to make you address them privately and if that doesn't work you go to court.
When Buck behaved with an absolutely stunning lack of judgement to put it mildly and published a private e-mail discussion with fleecy, then that was not about any doubts about MOS' legality IIRC, but cooperation and licensing issues.
Anyway it doesn't matter who started it. If it indeed was the MOS team, then AInc and their affiliates shouldn't have perpetuated it over the years. Everything about this affair and modus operandi stinks, and the smell is everywhere.
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@Alchemist ( it's "Seehund" BTW ;) )
you really do talk crap.
the windowsOS market is owned by MicroSoft.
the MacOS/Apple HW market is owned by Apple.
the AmigaOS/HW market is owned by Amiga.inc.
No One else can use the names of any of these for them selfs.
IF you owne the IP you own that market no matter how big or small that market is.
Wow. You misinterpreted what I said so TOTALLY that it's not even funny!
No, the market that MS is targeting with their Windows product is NOT owned by MS, or anybody else. That market is a bunch of people who are potential buyers of an operating system for SOHO computing and gaming (let's restrict this to WinXP Home ed. for this example's sake). WinXP is not "the official" OS of this market, it's one product on that market. Competitors to MS are not "backstabbers" or "uncooperative".
OF COURSE MS owns the rights of Windows and it's trademarks (thank you, Captain Obvious!), but they DO NOT own the market to which they're trying to sell their product.
Same thing with AmigaOS/TeronCX and all your other examples, it's just different markets. Well, Apple and MS do compete on the same market to a large extent, which makes the notion of OWNING a market even more silly.
The markets are the targets and playgrounds of these companies, not their properties.
Sheesh!
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@ Kronos/Seehund
Yes, it was Ralph Schmidt who made this public in interviews and through messages on public message boards. It's quite some time ago now, surely long before you heard anything from Ben with regard to this subject.
When one party trows allegations into the public, IMO the other party is fully entitled to give their standpoint to the public as well. Much later when things were calming down a little, it was Bill Buck who publicly revealed a confidential email conversation with Fleecy Moss, again confirming that Amiga Inc considers MorphOS to be an illegal product.
@ Seehund
and there can't be an official (without quotes) product targeting an open market
Well Amiga/Hyperion own the official AmigaOS market (companies need to acquire licences), just like Apple owns the official MacOS X market. That does not mean Hyperion or anyone else may not target MacOS X or MorphOS users.
I never have seen people within other OS communities getting wind up as much about this, as MorphOS fans. It has to be clear, MorphOS is not AmigaOS as else the OS designers needed to buy the rights (Source code, but at least the brandname) for millions of dollars themselves or they needed to come to an agreement with current owners.
government monopoly on telephony infrastructure, then using the word official without quotes would be correct
Telephony is a service, you would therefor need to clearly specify to what official is referring to.
For instance there is no official Cola. However there are official Coca Colas or Pepsi Colas. Within the Macintosh market nowadays there only exists one official MacOS X hardware supplier, even if the Pegasos and AmigaOne will also be able to run MacOS X.
Write the author and request that they remove the word entirely if it bugs you so.
LOL, who said that it bugs me so much? I only said it was a bad idea. IMO in general the interviewer did a good job.
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>Yes, it was Ralph Schmidt who made this public in
>interviews and through messages on public
>message boards. It's quite some time ago now,
>surely long before you heard anything from Ben
>with regard to this subject.
Sorry, but where have you been in the years 1996-
2000? You better should really read everything from
the beginning.
groups.google.com is your friend.
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Funny world you are living in !
I have to go with MikeB on this one. funny world you are living in Kronos, really!
:-P