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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: jedi on October 22, 2002, 10:34:22 AM
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By Thendic France (http://www.thendic-france.com) on MorphOS-News.de (http://www.morphos-news.de):
In complete cooperation with Mai Logic, we have loaded the bplan OpenFirmware on both the Teron CX and PX. MorphOS runs well on both boards.
The Pegasos was developed as a open hardware platform right from the beginning; it uses a BIOS to simplify a port of any operating system to the platform.
This OpenFirmware is a well known standard (IEEE1275) and is used worldwide by companies like SUN Microsystems, Apple, Cisco, IBM, Motorola and others.
We will support any OS vendor willing to port their software to our platform and will allow them to use our retail channels to sell their products.
Read More (http://www.morphos-news.de/?lg=en&nid=118&si=1)
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Oh My....
This is really great news.
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Anyway no where does it say that other Oses cant be run on the Aone or that no firm can port there OS to it.
its just that the Aos must come with the Aone no matter what other Oses & SW is bundled with it. AmigaOS must be one of the products.
Just like the Pegasos, MOS must come with it.
the protection is not to stop other oses from running on the Aone, its there to stop Aos from running on other HW.
So infact the Aone is open, but the Aos is not.
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as this will create a distance between the user and the machine. Experienced computer users will never buy a dongle protected OS or program.
BS... I consider myself an experienced computer user. And when I buy officially AmigaOS4 supported hardware, why should I care about the fact that the OS only runs on certified hardware?
When I bought my classic Amigas *I did not care* about my OS running on uncertified hardware nor will I do so when I buy an AmigaOne.
I do care about open hardware, and therefor this "news item" is very misleading. There is no reason why any other OS couldn't or shouldn't run on the AmigaOne.
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This OpenFirmware is a well known standard (IEEE1275) and is used worldwide by companies like SUN Microsystems, Apple, Cisco, IBM, Motorola and others.
So unless the graphics cards are specifically initalised by the OF, you can only use Apple-compatible (read: rare and expensive) graphics cards with the Pegasos? At least PPCBoot doesn't have that problem.
Quite honestly, if you've got an AmigaOne, you'd have to be a bit simple to run MOS as the primary OS, anyway. It's a bit like having a Mac and only using MOL to run Mac software.
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"We have even thought we might put it in the Walker housing!"
Are they insane ?, who the heck would buy that piece of crap, it might have been understandable if it were the MCC, but the WALKER ??
:-?
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So, they wouldn't mind a port of Amiga OS 4.0 to their open firmware board. Why do I see this as not happening...? Probably, due to all the flame wars we've had in the past about a certian board that Hyperion was suppost to get/have ordered/etc....
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What's the difference between Open Firmware, which is what I thought the AmigaOne supported, and PPCBoot?
Yeah, it's kinda like using Lindows or Wine to run your Windows software.
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What's the difference between Open Firmware, which is what I thought the AmigaOne supported, and PPCBoot?
Simplistic response...
OF sucks
PPCBoot rulez
;-)
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Lindows and Wine have nothing to do with it. The OF/BIOS/whatever you want to call it has one job: initialise the hardware so the OS can boot.
OF is in Forth. PPCBoot is in C. We know that the implementation of PPCBoot on the A1 includes a x86 emulator. We know nothing much about the Pegasos OF, which is why I keep asking. I haven't seen a straight answer yet (maybe that's the Thindick influence) and I don't think this excessive secrecy about the mobo bodes well at all.
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Yeah, seem to be their running theme. Be vague, don't give any real details. It's like Theodic/bPlan/Morphos are afraid that people will find out that their secret sause is just Ketcup and Mayonase passed off as Russian dressing..
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??? I'm confused by this - we dont want dongles but you can add them?
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@teapot
Whats the problem ????
It DOES run with "x86"-Radeons.
It DOES run with "x86"-Voodoos.
It DOES run with "x86"-SIS.
That's all that is needed as it is all what is supported by CGX_5
and even more than supported by P96 in the forseeable future.
So again what is your problem with that x86-emu ??
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@Rose
Spreading lies again are we?
Pegasos has x86 emulation for card initialization.
So again, your point was?
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@Piru
Rose does not spread lies!!!
Can any of you (Piru & Kronos) find any info about features of MorphOS, or information about the Pegasos OpenFirmware???
I think not ;-)
So who should you attack, the open cool AmigaOS/AmigaOne projects ...
or the closed MorphOS/Pegasos projects???
AmigaOS/AmigaOne seems to be the most/only professional projects in this battle, and thats also what I'm going to buy!
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If you have not seen the Pegasos site yet, here it is :-D (http://www.thendic-france.com/TECH/US/products/pegasos/pegasos.htm)
Nice page, but still nothing about the OpenFirmware ;-)
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>OF is in Forth. PPCBoot is in C.
SmartFirmware is written in Ansi C.
>We know nothing much about the Pegasos OF
Yeah sure... Why don't you just go to
http://www.codegen.com/ ?
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The fact that Pegasos has the x86 emulation for the card initilization is *so frigging obvious* that it doesn't need to be advertised separately. Limiting your system to PPC-only cards would be more than stupid [oh, wasn't this one reason for the PPCBoot, too?].
And if you're missing some information you can always ask (correct people, not me;-)).
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And if you're missing some information you can always ask (correct people, not me).
Huh? Who could I ask? Neko? R$? Not exactly approachable people :-o
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Huh? Who could I ask? Neko? R$? Not exactly approachable people
I hate to swear but they really are just a bunch of arrogant f.ucks.
And like anyones going to take R$ seriously after producing that bag of crapb ppc.library .
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Is it so obvious?
Really? Just pointing to the codegen webpage doesn't actually help if the Pegasos actually has an x86 emulator in ROM. Because CodeGen's SmartFirmware doesn't. What kind of idiot theory about marketing is this? "The less we say the more we sell?". Ok, considering what Thendic usually DO say, there might be something valid in that. I'll buy the theory anyway, ok? :-P
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The fact that Pegasos has the x86 emulation for the card initilization is *so frigging obvious* that it doesn't need to be advertised separately.
If it were frigging obvious, we wouldn't be asking the question. And the question becomes even more pertinent when someone says 'Like Apple'. Apple firmware doesn't have this function, hence the need for special self-initialising graphics cards.
Limiting your system to PPC-only cards would be more than stupid [oh, wasn't this one reason for the PPCBoot, too?].
Compatibility problems were one reason PPCBoot was chosen over the Softex OF, and this is public knowledge. Nice try at a snide remark; pity it's so wide of the mark it just makes you look ridiculous.
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Poster: Kronos Date: 2002/10/22 15:29:41
@teapot
Whats the problem ????
It DOES run with "x86"-Radeons.
It DOES run with "x86"-Voodoos.
It DOES run with "x86"-SIS.
That's all that is needed as it is all what is supported by CGX_5
and even more than supported by P96 in the forseeable future.
So again what is your problem with that x86-emu ??
@Kronos
Are you totally sure???
Couldn't OF just include drivers for those cards???
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@hnl_dk
Who care ? (But I doubt it)
All cards supported by MOS can be used in a x86-version.
I don't care how, or why but just that it is so.
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It's funny to see everyone jumping around just
because Pegasos and MorphOS hit KDH and the
other dealers...
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t's funny to see everyone jumping around just because Pegasos and MorphOS hit KDH and the
other dealers.
No, what's funny is Gizzabuck's lame attempt to imply that they have their own dealer network which they'd kindly let others have access to. You can hardly blame the dealers for wanting to generate a bit of revenue right now. They have to eat, same as everyone else.
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Usually you can just flash a PC card with the OF firmware.
The advantage of OF is it's very flexible and there are OF drivers embedded in OF-compatible cards. Thus the OF version of the ACard ATA disk controller PCI card has an OF driver which can load the kernel and modules from the filesystem. The advantage here is the kernel doesn't need built-in support for that card or some kind of lame disk controller specification in order to boot and root a volume on that bus.
What I would like to know is if the firmware has some kind of VESA driver in case you have an x86-based card which you can't be bothered to flash with the OF ROM. If not how would you be able to get to the OF prompt? (or else you have to pray the firmware doesn't run into problems before loading the kernel)
FYI: Apple's OF technotes http://bananajr6000.apple.com/OF/technotes.html
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Does this mean MorphOS is dependant upon the firmwear from bplan? If so, then it wont be able to run on A1 right?
Sorry, i ment the A1 that comes with the OS4 PPCBoot code + Dongle stuff...
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@Rose alias anarchic_teapot
"Gizzabuck's lame"
"Thindick"
Have you not more arguments than that insults to enjoy your assembly ?...
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@jedi
Oh, come on - gizzabuck is kindof a lame nick, but thindick is actually pretty funny :-D
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Does this mean MorphOS is dependant upon the firmwear from bplan? If so, then it wont be able to run on A1 right?
I shouldn't think it's beyond the MOS bunch to produce a version of MOS that runs on the A1, but they'll need to buy a board first and it's not yet available commercially.
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@Sebastien aka Jedi
Have you not more arguments than that insults to enjoy your assembly ?...
Yes, but obviously you've missed quite a few episodes so you're going to have trouble following the plot. :-D
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For the specialists of technical specs and rumors,
bPlan/Thendic have just posted more interesting information concerning the Pegasos Firmware & Articia S :
http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&nid=118
Comment #26 :
"bplan/Thendic (24-Oct-2002, 09:20:29) - [ Answer | Singleview ]
Hello Mr. Anonymous, you sound like an educated engineer. It would be better to speak with you face to face and not like this, but here goes...
The core specification, IEEE Std 1275-1994, IEEE Standard for Boot Firmware (Initialization Configuration) is listed in accordance with "Firmware: Core Requirements and Practices (ISBN Number: 1-55937-426-8)" and is only available from the IEEE Standards Organization. For ordering and pricing information, you have to use the searchable index at the IEEE Standards page. Here you will find what you seek.
If you would like to meet we would be pleased to discuss this with you more fully.
As to your other questions:
Is it possible to use ordinary various X86 PCI cards with the new bplan Firmware?
Yes, this feature has been added to the BIOS and was written by bplan.
Concerning the new PowerPC970: today it is not possible to use this CPU with the Pegasos; however in the future it will be. We do not have a sample yet! We cannot offer it to you until IBM releases the product commercially. We have a close relationship with IBM (and Motorola) and we do get samples of new chips to test them well ahead of product releases, but we do not have samples of this CPU yet. It should not be too much trouble for us to gets this running. The engineering that supports a product like this is at the highest professional level and the documentation is very good making our job much easier.
BeOS was originally developed for the Hobbit CPU and was very early on re-directed to the PowerPC, later shifting again toward the x86. What is interesting is that there are significant BeOS developments in both the x86 and PPC environments. What is left of the official BeOS is now owned by PalmSource (http://www.palmsource.com). What is being done there we do not know. However, OpenBeOS (http://www.openbeos.org/) and ZetaOS (http://www.yellowtab.com) for example, are active projects that interest us very much. Why couldn't we have a "B-Box" running on the Quark kernel of MorphOS?
:-)
Or, a U-Box using BSD...
@strobe
We would like to work with you on this!
We own this Firmware, parts are licensed and parts are written by us.
Sincerely,
Thendic/bplan"
And Comment #28 :
"bplan/Thendic (24-Oct-2002, 10:41:29) - [ Answer | Singleview ]
Well, you are referring to the Articia S. The Articia Sa is a 166MHz PowerPC chipset that includes advanced features like AGP, PCIX and DDR SDRAM. The Articia P has AGP4X, PCIX and DDR SDRAM features. It has 166MHz CPU bus speed, SMP for dual CPUs, a 60x and MPX Bus, 333MHz DDR SDRAM or a 166MHz SDRAM interface, DMA controllers, LPC interface, Interrupt Controller, Global Timers, Clock Generator, SMBus, iMemory, a Floating Buffer, Triple DES, and three PCI Interfaces. The Mai Articia family of chipsets are "bus-centric" and have a "5-bus" design that provides a balanced architecture that enables both powerful device-to-bus and bus-to-bus accessibility.
...and there is no "Pegasos II" -- just stack-on the next one or upgrade the CPU card!
;-)
bplan/Thendic"
;)