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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: System on October 16, 2002, 12:39:28 PM
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Robert Du Gaue, an Amiga enthusiast and former Amiga columnist for CCN, and AmigaZone's Harv Laser get together to write a good article depicting the state of the current American West Coast Amiga community and the lack of progress from Amiga Inc.
You can read it here. (http://www.ccnmag.com/index.php?sec=mag&id=190.0)
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Good, reasonably apolitical article full of pathos.
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It did make me think.
Is it really worth the wait. I know it is just around the corner, but it have benn for quite some time now.
Any way not to annoy any one, but MOS 1.0 beta should be out now.
Maybe that is the way to go, if amiga don't finish AOS soon.
Just my opinion.
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@yssing
Question : since both are strapped to crappy hardware, is either "worth waiting for"? Granted, a 600 mhz PPC is faster than any existing classic Antique, but... 600 mhz brings it up to what??? 1998 standards? Let me express how totally enthusiastic I am about spending $1000 for a 1998-level machine with no commercial software support.
:huh:
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@Wayne
No none of it is really worth spending money on atm. but the Xeon Xe (??) board with CPU modules, and Pegasos with the same, would be worth a little more once the new CPU modules arrive.
Any way, if the Power4 PPC are as good as stated, then it would be interessting to hae a CPU module with the Power4.
And as Mac will be using them, there will most likely be CPU modules with Power4.
And it would only be in the Amigas interest to add support for that.
It seems to me that most amiga folks would like to have as much PPC power as possible.
But ATM it seems as is MOS will have the advantage, it will be released first, and the Pagsos already use CPU modules, this would give them quite an advantage over AOS4.0 on the A1.
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@ Wayne
Which is why I havent sent off for the 'slight' upgrade to a A3000T, which is the classic machine that I "lust" after!
You forget TWO facts:
Many, many, many, many, many, many, Amiga-Users for many, many, many, many, many years have used 68000 or 68020 powered machines!
They didn't up-grade to faster CPUs!!!
That "1998" performance can be just the ENTRY-LEVEL equivalent of the unexpanded A500s and A1200s that satified many ppl.
(( It may be of interest that a 500Mz G3 model is STILL sold by Apple ))
(( The A1 and the Pegasus are 100Mz FASTER than that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ))
...........................................
"Who runs Bartertown?" - MMBT
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@Voteaux
New Mac with 500mhz ??
Must be something wrong at the wrong side of the world,
because 600 is the minimun around here.
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vortexau wrote:
(( It may be of interest that a 500Mz G3 model is STILL sold by Apple ))
(( The A1 and the Pegasus are 100Mz FASTER than that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ))
I could only find an 600MHz G3:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/53/wo/mtIhc0LHLn7sH5dLef/0.3.0.3.27.39.3.3.1.1.0?218,47 (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/53/wo/mtIhc0LHLn7sH5dLef/0.3.0.3.27.39.3.3.1.1.0?218,47)
or
http://www.computerstore.dk/shop/VareKort.asp?vn=PCAP0025&kat=PC-PDA&subkat=pc-pda3 (http://www.computerstore.dk/shop/VareKort.asp?vn=PCAP0025&kat=PC-PDA&subkat=pc-pda3)
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I guess I missed the “next” delivery date or whaterver.
I was away for several weeks this summer, did I miss some new date to ship the latest and greatest?
Can someone here give me (and others too I’m sure) an update about where Amiga Inc. and the new OS/hardware is with respect to getting it into the hands of the general public.
Thanks for any insight and information.
Bob C.
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I wouldn't sweat it... you guys waited this long, you might as well keep waiting!
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For me Amiga is a hobby and Im happy i can afford it. The possibilty that it will actually succeed as a platform is a nice and appreciated bonus. (Its also the reason why Im not interested in an alternative to the Amiga.)
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:nervous:
I share Wayne's conerns with the lack of s/w support (commercial) and also the lack of speed that the 600MHz G3 offers, but on the other hand, the Amiga platform is being dragged through, what 10 years?, of technological change in one go. We also have to bear in mind that Apple absorb a fair number of the PPC processors, leaving little behind for the likes of us.
:hammer:
It is the old vicious circle, if we don't buy the A1 because it has no s/w support, then no s/w producers will make s/w for it because it has no viable user base. (as small as it is)
:quickdraw:
I am going to bite the bullet and get the A1 and OS4. It could be a waste of money but then it may not, yet if we aren't willing to show our support now then there won't be a G4/G5/Power4 or even an x86 version of the Amiga.
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What we need to see first is Amiga partnering with some key people so that we can see some really good software support at launch. If people don't see that the machine can really do something. Otherwise, what is the point in it? Why switch from a PC or Mac with lots of software already available, to a machine with nothing? If Amiga wants to shrug off its image of an 'Antique' machine, it'd better make some progress with software as well as operating system soon!
Rant over.
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What makes you think you will be able to buy AOS4 with the AmigaOne? Have we even seen an alpha of anything non-Linux running on the AmigaOne?
As for the PPC 970 it uses a new bus protocol so you will have to wait until MAI or whomever develops a new chip set before you can use it. In the meantime the Pegasos will be able to use G4 processors which use the same bus as the G3.
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In the meantime the Pegasos will be able to use G4 processors which use the same bus as the G3.
Yay for the Pegasos! But I am not keen on an OS (MorphOS) that is only Amiga compatable (that is how I understand MOS), at least OS4 will be an AmigaOS based on the same things that OS3.x are based on (again how I read it).
Don't get me wrong, I wish the Peg and MOS all the best, but I will be sticking with Workbench(AmigaOS).
I hope that they are able to find some G4s tho, as I belive Apple currently absorbe most, if not all, of them. At least if they guys behind the Peg can find some G4s then Eyetech might be able to! Then (hopefully!) we can move onto the A1-XE and use the darn things! :crazy: :lol:
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You forget TWO facts:
Many, many, many, many, many, many, Amiga-Users for many, many, many, many, many years have used 68000 or 68020 powered machines!:
Motorola has failed provide a cheap (compared to X86) upgrade path for 68k during the early 1990s, thus Amiga users are stuck on 020/030 CPUs.
Why didn’t Moto offer a 66/75/80 Mhz 030 (with built in FPU) part? (Completing with 486DX2/DX4/ price bracket).
Due to Moto incompetence, most of 68k based PCs are gone from mainstream view. (Moto’s 68k empire is basically gone from the general PC market.)
Moto did not keep up with Intel/AMD in terms of price and performance at a given time period.
The CPU vendor is pretty much the central node for the success of the particular PC platforms.
X86 empire has a double insurance of at least two aggressive CPU vendors (mostly due to IBM’s decisions in forcing Intel to give early X86 designs to AMD within the original X86 PCAT contacts).
It’s sad to see that PPC Alliance basically reduced to one aggressive CPU vendor (e.g. IBM).
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I think Ketzer descibes the Amiga best - it's a hobby, nothing more. There may be a few diehards who actually use it for simple work, but it doesn't have access to any of the professional software available for the Big Platforms.
It makes little difference whether it has a G3, G4 or $(@X99. If it can't run the software that people run on their big PCs and Macs, it'll always be a toy.
I can't wait to be able to buy my new toy. I'll have a G3/SE for starters, thanks, then a G4/XE for main course, and I'll have a look at the dessert menu later.
tony
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I think Ketzer descibes the Amiga best - it's a hobby, nothing more. There may be a few diehards who actually use it for simple work, but it doesn't have access to any of the professional software available for the Big Platforms.
Word Perfect was available for AmigaOS btw…
The claim for the first color DTP desktop SW packages. Amiga did have some professional software (i.e mostly DTV industries) .
CBM wasn’t serous about Amiga during the 80s i.e. Commodore 64/128 and it's variants was a waste of R&D/marketing resources.
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I think Ketzer descibes the Amiga best - it's a hobby, nothing more.
This is something that Amiga, Inc. reinforces by only describing the AmigaOS platform in relation to existing users. Is there anything from Amiga, Inc. that shows some sign of wanting to grow the AmigaOS platform beyond existing users? Or any OS features or applications that would win new users? Clearly, Amiga, Inc. is looking at the native Amiga platform more as a short-term source of license income than as a long-term project to be comparable in some way with the "Big Platforms". For that job, AmigaAnywhere is the solution; it seems to me Amiga as a proprietary platform is almost dead before it starts, due to the priorities of the company. So as long as buyers go in with their eyes open, it'll be OK, but they shouldn't expect too much IMHO. This is sad, but it's the way Amiga is doing it.
-- gary_c
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Amiga Inc is failing.
As I see it, they don't really support the desktop market, this is IMHO where they should focus theire work, not with PDA and cell phones.
Any way I really don't think that amigaDE/anywhere or what ever will ever succeed.
To little to late.
Focus on the desktop and get more user to the platform. At least Thendic is trying to do this.
IMO Amiga Inc has abbandoned the amiga for something, though called amiga, has nothing to do with amiga.
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Any way not to annoy any one, but MOS 1.0 beta should be out now.
Maybe that is the way to go, if amiga don't finish AOS soon.
Na, then it's time to hang up your hat and go home.
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Is it not time for a new Executive Update from Bill? In the last one he said on a few topics that there was going to be new info about it soon. But it has been more then a month now.
Coder
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Both AmigaOS4 and MorphOS claim to be "Amiga compatible" or more specifically have backwards compatibility for running Amiga 3.x software.
The question really is, which OS will be MORE compatible.
We have no idea how compatible AmigaOS 4 will be since the only thing shown t the public is Amiga OS 3.x with some 4.x elements. I expect the compatibility to be good since they will simply use the same 3.x libraries. However these libraries will still be 68k and will run under emulation. I would be shocked (but pleasantly so) if they released a fully native AmigaOS 4.
MorphOS wrote all their 3.x compatible libraries as PowerPC native from the very beginning so I would expect it to run old software much faster.
As for the interface both OSs will have interfaces which are different than AmigaOS 3.x. Until we sit down and compare 3.x, 4.x, and MOS I don't see how anybody can pass judgement.
The only thing I know is AOS4 isn't going to be running on new hardware any time soon. I would expect no earlier than 2004 at this rate. MOS, to Amiga Inc.'s shame, is far farther along despite the fact they had to write a lot of the OS from scratch instead of rewriting an old OS.
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The only thing I know is AOS4 isn't going to be running on new hardware any time soon.
How do you know that?
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Several reasons:
1) They don't even have an OS to port.
All they have is some AOS4.x technologies running on 3.x on a A4000. They beagged not long ago that exec was native.
2) Even if they did, it would take a long time
Even assuming there is a new kernel running on the A4000 which is ready to be ported, this process isn't easy! The architectures are completely different and would require a hell of a lot of debugging just to get the shell up and running. Nobody at Amiga Inc. or anybody else has claimed to find the silver bullet to bypass this process. Consider that the host processor has a different interrupt protocol to begin with and a different ABI and a different north bridge and a different memory protocol and a different firmware logic and a different set of chips for the south bridge and a different friggin EVERYTHING!
It took a long time for the Quark kernel to be ported as well. BPlan is just ahead of the game, that's all. No short-cuts were taken.
I leave it to the Amiga partnership to show me the money. Demonstrate SOMETHING running on the AmigaOne other than Linux. Demonstrate a new AmigaOS running on a A4000 with new features like mmeory protection.
I mean something, ANYTHING!
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Well then you don't know rather you presume...
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Well why don't we try to use some logic then.
If you had AmigaOS 4 in working order on a A4000 why would you instead demonstrate an extremely buggy Amiga 3.x with some AOS4 elements?
Which is it, is the Amiga partnership insane or behind?
We KNOW that AOS4 isn't even stable to demonstrate on the A4000. We KNOW that whatever they have can't be any better than the really buggy 3/4 hybrid they demonstrated. We KNOW that they recently bragged about finishing exec.
How can the above be true and AOS4 for AmigaOne be just around the corner? HA! 2004 if you're lucky.
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hnl_dk said:
I could only find an 600MHz G3: http://store.apple.com
or http://www.computerstore.dk
From the "Products" page at
next byte, (http://www.nextbyte.com.au) Australia's Macintosh Specialists (just below the "ALL NEW eMAC - NOW FOR RETAIL" Section) :
"Choose your iMac - 500MHz, 600MHz and 700MHz G3"
"Special $1849.00
500MHz PowerPC G3
64MB SDRAM
20GB Ultra ATA drive
CD-ROM drive
RAGE 128 Pro w/ 8MB
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K internal modem
15-inch display
Two USB ports
Two FireWire ports"
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We KNOW that AOS4 isn't even stable to demonstrate on the A4000. We KNOW that whatever they have can't be any better than the really buggy 3/4 hybrid they demonstrated. We KNOW that they recently bragged about finishing exec.
How can the above be true and AOS4 for AmigaOne be just around the corner? HA! 2004 if you're lucky.
I belive they are ready with exec if they say so.
If you paid any attention you would know that whats delaying things is the 68k-emulation. Its not intergated yet, and .. that could be a huge task.