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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Software News => Topic started by: System on October 09, 2002, 12:55:44 PM
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Hyperion Entertainment is pleased to announce the completion of its highly optimised Quake 2 port for the Amiga.
A bundle containing the full PC version and a separate CD with the Amiga executable, the Quake 2 installer, GUI and over 600 MB of (compressed) extras such as (nearly 40!) Quake 2 mods , levels and models, will be available shortly from your local dealer. Pricing may vary.
The game complies with all the usual quality standards for which Hyperion has become known in the Amiga market.
Users can register their copy of Quake 2 on the Hyperion website (www.hyperion-entertainment.com) to obtain support and download further mods and updates as they become available.
System requirements are as follows:
* PPC equipped Amiga (WarpOS)
* 64 MB of memory (more recommended for certain mods)
* Graphics-card (3D acceleration supported but not required)
Dealers interested in distributing this product may contact Timdg@hyperion-entertainment.com.
Source: amiga-news.de (http://www.amiga-news.de/en/)
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Great news! Just need a SharkPPC now to play it on... :-(
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Good news, but it's missing a download link.
They are providing the GPL altered source for download, yes?
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You know, I don't have a problem, paying Hyperion for Quake 2.
Amiga companies are all struggling at the moment, I for one am happy
to put my hand in my pocket.
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You know, I don't have a problem, paying Hyperion for Quake 2.
Hardly the point, though. It's the law that they have to release the source of any derived programs. I wouldn't mind paying them either, but they must do this!
I suppose it's possible that they have come to some sort of exclusive licensing deal with iD, but barring any further details I think this is very unlikely.
(There is nothing on their site as of yet, but it hasn't seen an update for months so I doubt there will be).
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GPL doesn't imply "link for download" at all, actually. I think you need to read the GPL again...
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Also, if it works the same way as when quake and Doom were released, whilst the game code was released under GPL, you still needed the data files, which you could only get off of the original disks I believe (or from Clickbooms cd's in Quakes case). So you would need to buy the original disks anyway.
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From http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLRequireSourcePostedPublic
"Does the GPL require that source code of modified versions be posted to the public?
[...]if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the users, under the GPL.
"
Seems clear enough to me.
Alright, maybe if they include the sources on the CD or 'available on request', but then other people are free to distribute modifications of those sources. So it would be best if Hyperion acted to the spirit of the GPL if not the letter, and released their changes before someone else does.
But perhaps they do intend to release and we're arguing about nothing. I hope so.
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Cool, I am curious for benchmarks. CSPPC/Voodoo and A1/Radeon:-)
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Also, if it works the same way as when quake and Doom were released, whilst the game code was released under GPL, you still needed the data files, which you could only get off of the original disks I believe (or from Clickbooms cd's in Quakes case). So you would need to buy the original disks anyway.
But what if I own the PC disks already?
Or want to play the demo version?
Or want to make my own Amiga version, based on theirs?
Listen, I'm not trying to say Hyperion don't deserve recompense for their efforts. By all means buy this CD to thank them. But you can't just allow them to flaunt the GPL just because they are a poor Amiga company!
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Two posibilties:
a) Hyperion paid ID for a non-GPL-licence: Good luck in getting that money back.
b) It's based on GPLed code and everybody who gets (buys) the binary has the
right to get a free copy of the source, and to redistribute all files that
fall under the GPL (if he also supplie the source).
I think Hyperion should clarify that AFAP.
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@Red
CSPPC/Voodoo: o.k., but A1/Radeon ? Are you talking about a PPC-
Linux-version or what :-P
Don't expect any usable Radeon-3D anytime soon (including "evil-OS").
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Hyperion will ofcourse fully comply with the GPL license and release the source-code of our port to any interested party upon request.
Since the game is not released yet and therefore not distributed yet, we are not yet under any obligation to do so.
Note that offering the source-code for download is NOT sufficient to comply with the GPL.
The only way to comply with the GPL requirement to offer the source to any interested party is to do so on a physical medium.
Feel free to check the GPL FAQ on this point.
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Here is the relevant part of the GPL FAQ:
"You're supposed to provide the source code by mail-order on a physical medium, if someone orders it. You are welcome to offer people a way to copy the corresponding source code by FTP, in addition to the mail-order option, but FTP access to the source is not sufficient to satisfy section 3 of the GPL.
When a user orders the source, you have to make sure to get the source to that user. If a particular user can conveniently get the source from you by anonymous FTP, fine--that does the job. But not every user can do such a download. The rest of the users are just as entitled to get the source code from you, which means you must be prepared to send it to them by post.
If the FTP access is convenient enough, perhaps no one will choose to mail-order a copy. If so, you will never have to ship one. But you cannot assume that.
Of course, it's easiest to just send the source with the binary in the first place. "
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@Ben
HUU ?? Just saw that you wrote your post in reply to mine, and
that was either a mistake, or doesn't make any sense at all.
Everyone who gets the binary has the right to the sources. Simple ;-)
Putting both on the same media is the safest way to avoid any troubles.
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Kronos was heard wittering:
CSPPC/Voodoo: o.k., but A1/Radeon ? Are you talking about a PPC-
Linux-version or what :-P
you just can't resist can you ?! ;-)
"evil-OS" - windoze ? Morfos ?
I'd personally call Windoze 'Evil-OS', but I bet they already have Radeon 3d.
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Hyperion will ofcourse fully comply with the GPL license and release the source-code of our port to any interested party upon request.
Thanks for the clarification. Good work!
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Everyone who gets the binary has the right to the sources. Simple
Actually, anybody who wants to has the right to the sources. They don't have to buy the binary.
Putting both on the same media is the safest way to avoid any troubles.
True, although I don't think the GPL allows for the restriction that sources can only be obtained on CD from Hyperion., so the smart thing to do is to put the sources on the CD and make them available for download too.
...before someone else does,
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@Cluke stop making a fuss over nothing as most likely the source code will be on the CD.
so untill then be quiet.
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stop making a fuss over nothing as most likely the source code will be on the CD.
Slow reader, are you?
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nope but seeing as you waiting to a post or to mention that the source may come on the CD then i jumped in .
if you had added the fact that it could maybe come on the CD in your first post then there would of been no need for me to think of it.
but you did not think of that in your first post.
you were to busy having a dig
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@tickly
yes! We only nedd a Shark :-(
I had hope that the games wont be relased for free. :-x
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@Alkemyst
Well, to be honest i was excited by the headline (which implied that Quake2 was ready for download) and then really disappointed to see that they were (seemingly) only offering a commerical route to getting to even play a demo version so I maybe did jump in a little hastily. But it was a serious question.
Which is now, thankfully, answered. So chill dude! :-)
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>Great news! Just need a SharkPPC now to play it on...
I don't think you'll need a Shark. I was a beta tester for Q2, and I found it very playable in 512x384 on a Cyberstorm 200mHz PPC and PicassoIV. It was definately more responsive than Heretic II in 400x300.
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Hi!
And it is no wonder that it is faster than Heretic II... for one thing there has been more
optimization been done than for Heretic II. For another there are less CPU-intensive
light effects in Quake 2, compared to Heretic II.
As to the software renderer AmigaAbattoir was using there is also the fact that the
Quake 2 Software renderer is 8 Bit (the Hardware renderer is 16 Bit of course), while
for Heretic II even the software renderer was 16 Bit. Actually one Betatester of Quake 2 commented "Hyperion's fastest game up to now" on Quake 2.
Steffen Haeuser
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you forgot to mention that Heretic2 is a Third Person shooter
while Quake 2 is a First Person Shooter
to get a better speed out of Heretic 2 there is some
commands to make it look more like a FPS and it does
give a marked increase in speed (at least it did with my
old BVision :-) haven't tried it for ages.
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So, if Hyperion are releasing Q2, does this mean that this *other* project they were working on ;-) is finished?
Getting the source code out to the masses is pretty essential - how else are we going to write mods for it? I'm really looking forward to playing around with gameppc.library :-D (gamex86.dll, geddit? ah well...)
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Actually yes, the GPL is fully complied with if the source-code is only available from Hyperion on a physical medium.
If somebody were to distribute the binary of Quake 2 itself (which they can do as opposed to copying the entire CD which is protected by copyright or the mods which are as well unless also covered by GPL), they must always be able to call on us to get the source even if they obtained their copy from somebody other than us (ie not on a CD).
Obviously the person receiving this source-code has a right to make it available for download.
Note that we opted not to include the source on the CD.
We're not obliged to do so and it doesn't satisfy the requirements of the GPL as other people who didn't get the CD must also be able to get the source.
Again, offering it for download is NOT sufficient to comply with the GPL.
The only way to fully comply with the GPL is to make the source-code available on a physical medium to anyone who requests it, at cost.
(See the GPL FAQ quote above).
I spent considerable time stuyding the GPL license which isn't exactly easy to understand in all its facets, not even for a lawyer.
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You don't need the source to write a mod, you need the API documentation.
And as Ben quoted from the GPL FAQ:
The only way to comply with the GPL is to have the source available on request on a physical medium. Bundled with binary on CD is ok (and enough?), ftp is a nice gesture but is neither required nor enough. Seperate CD at near cost price is ok and enough.
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@Olegil
Assuming you're replying to me, I was not talking about making mods, I was talking about making altered versions of the full Quake2 . Or maybe even just to look at it for curiosities sake.
This is all hypothetical anyway, I was just trying to dispel the patronising "Well what would you need the source for anyway" argument that some seem to think would release a company from its obligations.
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but you would like to have a level/map/model editor :-)
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About Mod-Making:
It is pretty easy and only minor modifications needed for gameppc.dll. Most changes for Quake 2
were in the main exe, Renderer's and sound-DLLs, not in the gameppc.dll which is pretty platform-independent (from some few exceptions :) ).And of course you do not have
to change main-exe/renderers/sound-code for
a Mod, you only have to change gameppc.dll.
You need to:
- a minor change in g_main.c for the Amiga
Quake 2 Game API
- Another small change in g_save.c (only needed for Single-Player-Mods)
- Writing a Makefile of course :)
- If you are doing a Mod Multi-Platform you
have to be careful about pathnames ("/",
not "\")
- You have to use gcc as compiler
- "r+t" as parameter for fopen (if you use
fopen for logfiles or such in your Mod)
should be "r" for Amiga, else it won't work
(There will be more detailed information available after the release of the game)
For Game API Mods that is all which differs
from the Windows/Linux versions in the Game API. Of course you still should do new GFX/Models/Maps for a fine Mod :)
Of course engine-Mods are a different story. Actually we have one Engine-Mod (q2max) included on the CD (but q2max is slow and memory-hungry, so it is optional). Porting
an Engine-Mod is a LOT of work. Often Engine-Mods require lots of memory also.
Steffen
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what version of the source did you use for the port?
(3.21 I hope)
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umm note that it says WARPOS in big letters , whilst epic makes their titles MOS only ....
damn is this the end? ...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh ...do i need 2 fully setups here to enjoy all the cool AMIGA stuff?
what a lame world this has gotten to be.......
oh well shark will do , but bppc and mediator will do for now.....I HOPE! :D
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umm note that it says WARPOS in big letters , whilst epic makes their titles MOS only .... damn is this the end? ...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh ...do i need 2 fully setups here to enjoy all the cool AMIGA stuff?
Uhm, yeah. Hyperion are such ####heads, eh? I mean, taking the time and effort to make AmigaOS4 and then porting things to only run on WarpOS/AOS4 instead of doing the only sensible thing, eh? ;-)
Nah, not really. If you wanna enjoy more cool stuff you would have to buy a PC with windows anyway, since 99% of everything only works there. So what's new? I'm 100% behind Hyperion on this one. You as a customer can say what you want, but noone is obligated to listen...
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Hi!
Sure, it's 3.21 :)
Steffen
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@lempkee
Whats the prob ?
MorphOS can also run WarpOS-binaries, so you
will only need one setup :-D
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ermm forget it , im an amigauser not a mos one, and if the a1 or shark etc fails to arrive (or OS4) then i might ...be interested in MOS , over using a pc or what ever...
i think someone should clean up this mess pretty soon, why part the amiga even more? , we aint exactly as big as we was in 97/8/9 and look what the splits did then..., if amiga should be popular again , then pegasos and a1 /shark etc should be compatible against eachothers,
sounds lame? , well im sure it aint as lame as hearing lies about hw comming everyday....im still waiting for the shark,pre,abox,mcc,os4 etc to come, and still even mos.
and all in all, i really like that people actually "ARE*/is" making a MOS ppc os, and the amigaOS ...., but heh dont u think amiga is abit small to even try and split it up more?
(atleast the amiga as we know it)
if none of this made sense, well lol then i know what all this fuzz is about.
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@lempkee
Sense ? Didn't find any :-P
This rope is being pulled at both sides, and the change of getting
all to pull on only one side was lost somewhere in 2001.
When Hyperion took over (or better started) the development of
OS4, the MOS-team was allready to much advanced to just say quit.
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i dont want to start any flame here but...
WHY does MOS want your hand when AOS only gets a finger?
ie MOS tries soooo damned hard to be AMIGAOS , so why cant AMIGA os just get the MOS stuff? , damned i must be blind or something.
For godsake, just get on with it :D
shouldnt be hard to make MOS work on A1 and Aos to work on pegasos , now should it? as they are based on the same sources.
anyway, i know that amigaInc sort of DONT WANT anyone else on the board,its a shame really if all the great apps come on one of the systems only,
and the other one can benefit from it (in this case MOS) whilst AmigaOs stands alone, aint that TREASON? or betrayl ...
(no wonder theese boards are just flames...damn ;(( )
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You know how it is called ? Competition !
But I'm quite sure that someone will find a way to run OS4-binaries
on MorphOS or the other way round.
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maybe they'll update their website now, it hasn't changed since '01! :-D