Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Events => Topic started by: SlimJim on September 22, 2002, 12:58:25 AM
-
PPCBoot by Hyperion is finished and handed out to existing (35-40 or so) betatesters - seen working for the first time on the event (I saw an ATI Radeon start screen among others...)
With this done, the rest of the developerboards (a couple of hundred) can now be shipped to developers. Allow some two weeks to make sure the betatesters don't find any obvious problems.
PPCboot apparantly contains some pretty nifty features by the Frieden brothers (but I leave that report to those there with better technical knowledge (and memory!) than me).
PPCBoot was made due to an outside (in the meaning 'outside Amiga market') contract, creating some nice revenue for Hyperion.
Apart from the boot process being cumbersome (since PPCBoot didn't exist), according to Alan no AOne hardware problems whatsoever have been reported by the betatesters since may this year.
Alan Redhouse presented the AOne XE with replacable CPU and gave some very interesting numbers (which I leave to him to put on the web - he didn't want us to quote him on those). This card looks very promising anyways.
Due to plenty of requests from Amigans, Eyetech have changed their minds and will sell the AOne G3-SE before AOS4 is available - but as such including the licence to later get the OS (after all it wouldn't be an AOne without the OS and the ROM).
The G3-SE will hopefully ship before christmas, and the -XE slightly after christmas.
AOS4 for CyberstormPPC will come about around the same time, followed by the version for AOne probably after christmas (it should be noted that this was Alan's approximations - as I recall them - and not anything official from Hyperion).
AOS4 was presented by Gunne Steen of GGS-Data. He received a beta version from Hyperion for this particular presentation. It ran on his Cyberstorm PPC and he loaded modules on top of his OS3.9 installation, such as Intuition.library (giving new menus and configurability) and layers.library. He also showed some special effects modules like one that clipped all windows/pointers/graphics when they moved within an inch of the edge of the screen (perhaps not that useful, but interesting as an example of what's possible)
All windows can be iconified and placed on the WB desktop.
The Media Toolbox does indeed seem to be a very powerful program.
According to Stefan Burström, who was at the show, MUI will be included in OS4, but initially locked in a configuration that matches the look of Reaction. If you have a keyfile it will be changeable as usual of course.
Stefan Burström held a little (improvised) speech on IBrowse 2.3. This version is (as we knew) mainly a bugfix for everything that was wrong in 2.2 and is as such a vast improvement. However new features such as CSS will not be implemented until IBrowse 3.0, which is going to be PPC native. IB2.3 is free for registered users of 2.2.
There was plenty of people on the event. According to one of the people arranging the show, they calclulated some 200 amigans showing up for the few hours the event took place. There were people of every age, race, nationality and gender there, and generally a nice atmopsphere (albeit somewhat crowded..) Thanks to the enthusiasts arranging this, you did a darn good job!
These are pictures taken by Johan 'Graak' Forsbeg (first posted on ANN):
http://www.amigbg.com/aonegbg/img/Grak/index.htm
-
Kronos? Any comments? :-D
Coder
-
@Coder: now, now. Don't get him started!
-john
-
@Coder
Hmm not really, but it seems that Eyetech/Hyperion are doing
free advertisment for
[color=000033]PEGASOS+MorphOS[/color]
:-D :-P :-D :-P :-D :-P :-D :-P :-D :-P :-D
-
Update:
The 'outside revenue' I wrote about is coming from MAI logic (as pointed out by Ole-Egil Hwitmyren) for having Hyperion create the firmware bootROM for their boards. It apparently cointain a very clever x86 emulator to be able to initialize boards with only linux x86 drivers (as I understood it anyways... I might be wrong).
.
SlimJim
-
Huh?
No - on second though, don't elaborate on that.
.
SlimJim
-
@SlimJim: I noticed a Camcorder on a tripod in one of the photographs. Is someone going to post up any of the speeches?
-john
-
They did shoot the full AOS4 presentation. Don't know about Alan Redhouse's speech. Unfortunately I missed the AOne presentation by Ole-Egil et al, that's why the info on PPCBoot is rather sketchy.
In short, I haven't got a clue as to what will be put out on the web.
.
SlimJim
-
Was there any news on the show about Amithlon 2?
Coder
-
Not that I heard. No official AInc people were there after all.
.
SlimJim
-
I spent the major part of a hectic weekend at the Gothenburg International Book Fair instead, and from what I've read so far (been home for an hour) only what was promised was shown: a couple of POP motherboards, and some new GUI elements and utilities on OS 3.x on an Amiga.
I reckon the functionality of the already demoed components/modules can be gleaned from the info and screenshots that have been available for quite some time by now. Or? Well, I see someone filmed it all.
This picture (http://www.amigbg.com/aonegbg/img/Grak/pages/DCP_0635.htm) made me giggle though. A translation of some extracts:
"Amiga is back."
Huh?
"AmigaOne is the new Amiga computer [...]"
HUH??
Who wrote this? Eyetech? Judging from the basic explanation of what AmigaOS is later on in this flyer (?) it seems like this is aimed at "outsiders", but why would someone try to fool the uninitiated that there will be "new Amiga computers"? Why try to scare people away from AmigaOS? The deluded microscopic minority who actually WANT "new Amigas" need to get their heads examined, they don't need to be marketed to.
BTW, the screenshot fetishists can check out this report (http://www.gfxbase.com/specials/oase2.html) from OASE2 for a crapload of AmigaOS and MorphOS screenshots, plus Mediators, Pegasoses, Terons and all kinds of goodies.
-
PPCBoot by Hyperion is finished and handed out to existing (35-40 or so) betatesters
Just *how* are those "Frieden Features" applied to PPCBoot? I'm wondering since PPCBoot is a GPL project...
-
I don't know about GPL, but I know that Hyperion was licenced by MAI Logic to create this for their boards. The "x86-emulator" is a "Frieden feature" as you so very non-ironically put it.
.
SlimJim
-
SlimJim:
I don't know about GPL, but I know that Hyperion was licenced by MAI Logic to create this for their boards.
You mean "modify" or "add to", not "create" right? Or is this a completely new firmware only based on PPCBoot (in which case there should be no doubt that it's all governed by the GPL?)?
The "x86-emulator" is a "Frieden feature" as you so very non-ironically put it.
I have no idea what an x86 emulator has to do with PPCBoot or any firmware. With the "Frieden Feature" alliteration I was referring to "PPCboot apparantly contains some pretty nifty features by the Frieden brothers".
-
You mean "modify" or "add to", not "create" right? Or is this a completely new firmware only based on PPCBoot (in which case there should be no doubt that it's all governed by the GPL?)?
This I do not know. You have to ask Ben Hermans about the fine details.
I have no idea what an x86 emulator has to do with PPCBoot or any firmware. With the "Frieden Feature" alliteration I was referring to "PPCboot apparantly contains some pretty nifty features by the Frieden brothers"
The x86 emulator is a clever way of allowing graphics cards with x86 BIOS to initiate even when there isn't any native PPC support (once again, as I understood it).
.
SlimJim
-
Seehund were you at the Pegasos event?
-
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PPCBoot by Hyperion is finished and handed out to existing (35-40 or so) betatesters
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just *how* are those "Frieden Features" applied to PPCBoot? I'm wondering since PPCBoot is a GPL project...
If the PPCBoot they are using is indeed the GPL version, they only have to release the source when they start selling the boards, so it will be a few weeks before we can play with it (I *like* the fact that I'll be able to monkey with the BIOS :-D). Since they're still in the process of beta-testing, I'd rather wait until they're happy with it before I start looking at it. I'm personally curious to see if they only implemented the cpu's 'real mode' (8086-80286) or 'protected mode' (80386-), and which other parts of a PC's hardware they wrote in as well.
Edit:
The reason I'm curious is because *all* PCs, even mighty P-4's, start off in 8086-compatibility mode when reset - you have to enable all the advanced (post-286) stuff by writing into a CPU register. So it's possible that you only need 8086 mode to init the graphics card...
-
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PPCBoot by Hyperion is finished and handed out to existing (35-40 or so) betatesters
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just *how* are those "Frieden Features" applied to PPCBoot? I'm wondering since PPCBoot is a GPL project...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the PPCBoot they are using is indeed the GPL version, they only have to release the source when they start selling the boards, so it will be a few weeks before we can play with it (I *like* the fact that I'll be able to monkey with the BIOS ). Since they're still in the process of beta-testing, I'd rather wait until they're happy with it before I start looking at it. I'm personally curious to see if they only implemented the cpu's 'real mode' (8086-80286) or 'protected mode' (80386-), and which other parts of a PC's hardware they wrote in as well.
Edit:
The reason I'm curious is because *all* PCs, even mighty P-4's, start off in 8086-compatibility mode when reset - you have to enable all the advanced (post-286) stuff by writing into a CPU register. So it's possible that you only need 8086 mode to init the graphics card...
I think MAI has bought a licence for the BIOS, so the BIOS Hyperion is making is not under the GPL licence! (if I'm right ;-) )
-
The reason I'm curious is because *all* PCs, even mighty P-4's, start off in 8086-compatibility mode when reset - you have to enable all the advanced (post-286) stuff by writing into a CPU register. So it's possible that you only need 8086 mode to init the graphics card...
Correct, as far as I see it. Thats the reason it can actually be contained together with the rest of the code in a small flashrom :-)
And to Seehund et al:
You obviously have no clue. Hyperion actually made the firmware by request from MAI. MAI already had an outstanding contract with another company to make ppcboot work on the Teron series. They didn't deliver the goods, so Hyperion took over. After a few days of discussions it apparently turned out that instead of writing a forth interpreter, integrating an existing 8086 emulator into the system would be a lot better. So it was done. The codebase is based on ppcboot 1.1.6, but as someone mentioned, they don't have to give out code to anyone until things are actually released you won't be playing with it yet. And you won't be able to make a ppcboot flashrom that can run amigaos, only Linux. Because the rom on the amigaone will still contain extra code not linked into ppcboot that AOS4 will check for. But you will be able to buy a linux-only board and improve the firmware (if that is even possible, after the Friedens have been there before you :-P ). Be ware that GPL does NOT imply "downloadable from web".
-
The deluded microscopic minority who actually WANT "new Amigas" need to get their heads examined, they don't need to be marketed to.
Ah. Then I obviously need my head examined. You, sir, are an asshole.
Oh, and a comment to Pegasos bit of that OASE2 report:
together with Linux it could be used for professional server use or in a PDA.
Wow, someone need to stop taking so much growth hormone. A microATX sized PDA wouldn't be VERY comfortable to normal sized humans for long. Especially not considering it's got AGP and a CPU slot for a total depth of about 15 cm...
-
@Olegil:
Uh, that 'someone' would be me :-)
I'm not sure of the local netiquette, so when I realized that I'd forgotten to add the last part after I submitted the post, I added "Edit:" at the beginning of the new part.
BTW, the 'GPL does not mean downloadable from the web' comment is completely correct - you only have to supply the source code *to your users* (so they have the freedom to change it, etc). This means that you only get to see the source if you bought a copy of the binary (or, in this case, a motherboard). If this were not the case, there'd be no monetary incentive for writing code - all you need is a web browser and a compiler and you don't need to pay for any software! :-o
This is a common misunderstanding because most people who code GPL programs also make them 'free as in free beer', so they have nothing to lose by just uploading the source to a public server.
-
@CodeSmith
That was the clearest explanation of GPL I've seen. Now even I understand it and why there are so many misinterpretations around it...!
.
SlimJim
-
It does not really matter if this is "modified" or "based". Any derivate work from a GPL project is GPL'ed.
Our modifications will of course be GPL'ed, too, and will be available in full accordance to the GPL.
The idea of an x86 emulator in the firmware is that it is considered the firmware's task to initalize the hardware, including graphics cards. I don't think it makes sense to boot with a disabled screen - actually being able to see what is happening (including error messages) is a definitive advantage.
That is all I am going to say about this. If you want to discuss this, contact me privately (http://mailto:Hans-JoergF@hyperion-entertainment.com)
-
Hmm, withdrawn from the public ? :-o
Looks like your tasks on OS4 are finished (? )...
If no, get back to work because we're waiting ! :-x
Just kidding :-D :-D
Good luck. Integrations usually DO suck ....
re
Treke
-
olegil:
And to Seehund et al:
Et al? Who am I affiliated with today? :- P
You obviously have no clue. [...]
Huh? Are you talking about something I've written here, or is that merely a general opinion of yours? What in the rest of your comment have I misunderstood or contradicted? I'm not disagreeing with anything you write there!
Ah. Then I obviously need my head examined. You, sir, are an asshole.
I'll disregard the insult, since you obviously misunderstood me, at least I hope so. I thought you actually wanted that "AmigaOne" board you bought, not a "new Amiga". No need to make an appointment with the shrink. :)
I still think that if someone is yearning for a proprietary, custom piece of hardware like a "new Amiga", designed for one OS and vice versa, under the current circumstances, instead of the currently planned AmigaOS + third-party hardware path (including things like the Terons/AmigaOnes and whatnot) should consider undergoing a psychiatric examination. :)
If a Megacorp like Sony, IBM or so buys the Amiga Inc. bankruptsy estate , then maybe discussing "new Amigas" could make some sense.
Too damn bad that the chosen path includes removing the advantages of using third-party hardware though...
A microATX sized PDA wouldn't be VERY comfortable to normal sized humans for long.
LOL, yeah, I caught that passage too. BTW, when I think of a "PDA" (personal digital assistant) I visualise a drool-proof electronic box to be mounted under an electric wheelchair... :) That would work with a microATX board.
-
Rogue:
It does not really matter if this is "modified" or "based". Any derivate work from a GPL project is GPL'ed.
Our modifications will of course be GPL'ed, too, and will be available in full accordance to the GPL.
Concise, civil and answering the original question. Thanks!
-
Juzz:
Seehund were you at the Pegasos event?
Nope. Wasted the entire weekend at the book fair. :)
Anyway, personally I'm satisfied with judging the price and features of a piece of hardware from a piece of paper or a web page, I don't have to touch/smell/taste it. :) So since neither AmigaOS nor MorphOS were to be demoed in their final release versions I'd rather go and mingle/drink with The Cultural Elite and buy cheap books and comics. ;)
-
OMG!!!! Robert De Niro was there!!!
See the photo of him here. (http://www.amigbg.com/aonegbg/img/Grak/pages/DCP_0644.htm)
:-o :-D
-
Can we expect some audio files or video files soon from the show?
Coder
-
OMG!!!! Robert De Niro was there!!! See the photo of him here.
Seems you're right. That was one scary picture of Alan :-)
-
Look at his hands! Looks like he wants to strangle someone. A Pegasos/MOS lover maybe?
Coder
-
He's looking at AO, reading one of Kronos' posts.
:-P :-P :-P
-
LOL!!!
Too bad I couldn't make it :-(