Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: Seehund on September 04, 2002, 09:40:04 AM
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Mai Logic press release (http://www.mai.com/news&events/PressRelease090302.html)
Mai will be selling their Teron CX boards in a "consumer version" (as opposed to the "evaluation version" sold until now, distributed as "developer boards" by Eyetech). The initial target price will be about USD 500.
Since the public press release is out by now I guess I'm free to say that Bill Mueller, the Mai engineer who designed the Teron CX / "AmigaOne", has told me that this "consumer board" will be equipped with the newer VIA 686B southbridge (ATA100 interface et c.) and that the shared AGP/PCI slots on PCI bus 1 will be simultaneously usable. This is the same board Eyetech will be redistributing under the "AmigaOne" trademark, apart from that Eyetech's boards will ship with a modified firmware. The Teron CX will be on sale in "a couple of months", and Mueller did not yet know what firmware their boards will be shipped with.
Since no official response has yet been given to the AmigaOS distribution petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/amigaos/), we can only assume that AmigaOS users will still only be allowed to buy our hardware in a "special" version from one dealer...
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Es ist so schön
mal geistes krank zu sein...
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Elektro spake thusly:
Es ist so schön
mal geistes krank zu sein...
Heh. Sounds familiar. Either it's Jung or a Pankow song. :)
Pankow summed up the Amiga situation nicely:
This is time for orphans, time to wipe out all the morals
This is time for masochists, for devils, and for clowns
All you broken hearts
All you broken fools
Follow me in suicide oh
Follow me into ####
"Total quality experience!" :D
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Follow me into ####
What, are people too sensitive to read about bodily functions described in vulgar terms?
"Faeces" then.
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It's Oliwer Kalkoffe in one of his shows.
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@Seehund: You failed miserably to remember this PREVIOUS press release from MAI. If you read it carefully, you will see that Eyetech have been appointed as a DISTRIBUTOR for the Teron boards.
FREMONT, CA. July 9, 2002. Mai Logic Incorporated, a technology design house of integrated circuits/systems, today announced an agreement with Eyetech Group Ltd. to distribute the Teron CX and PX development systems in Europe, and to distribute production systems based on the Teron CX and PX designs to the Amiga market worldwide. Terms of the agreement emphasized both companies' long-term commitment to foster an unshakeable partnership and to create a bright future for the Amiga customers and partners
So, in effect, there is one distributor, but dealers have been appointed all over the globe to sell the Amiga-tized version. IMHO, very little in that is unusual. A brand name company appoints a single company, entrusting it to source a quality bit of kit and sell it through appointed retail channels. Hardly ground breaking or unique is it?
-john
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jd997uk:
You failed miserably to remember this PREVIOUS press release from MAI. If you read it carefully, you will see that Eyetech have been appointed as a DISTRIBUTOR for the Teron boards.
I remember the "AmigaOne" and that press release very well. Eyetech will be selling Mai's hardware. And? What are you talking about? What's that got to do with this?
AmigaOS users will still only be allowed to buy hardware via Eyetech (or another purely hypothetical "licensee"). Nothing has changed there.
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This only speaks of amiga.
Furthermore why should we pay more (if we will) for the same board?
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Ah, I think I see what you're hinting at, jd997uk:
... only be allowed to buy our hardware in a "special" version from one dealer...
Yeah, "distributor" might have been more literally accurate than "dealer", but it makes no practical difference, since those dealers will only be allowed to sell us hardware from this distributor, after whatever silly modifications have been applied. Just one more link in the chain that needs to be payed... :(
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Seehund burbled, in response to jd997uk:
I remember the "AmigaOne" and that press release very well. Eyetech will be selling Mai's hardware. And? What are you talking about? What's that got to do with this?
One might pose the same questions, with rather less lack of perception/bad faith, re your own remarks.
Remember that this is a limited-interest mobo for the moment, and IMO it is highly unlikely that any other dealer for Europe actually exists. So you'll still be buying from Eyetech.
Remember that the firmware, which basically enables the mobo to boot, and the Amiga ROM are not the same thing, neither conceptually nor physically. I suspect that when they talk about not necessarily using the same firmware as the A1, they mean that there may be a few differences in the code, eg default OS may be Linux rather than AOS.
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure it's the debugging etc work on the A1 which now enables MAI to market their board in this way. This is good news, since it has spread the costs of A1 development and should also reduce the final cost of the boards to users since more are expected to be sold.
And at "around $500", the Teron board is in the same price range as the AmigaOne anyway, based on the current GBP to USD exchange rate.
I do wish you'd think things through before kneejerking out this sort of emotive nonsense.
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I do wish you'd think things through before kneejerking out this sort of emotive nonsense.
Never happen, like a bad lobbyist he uses any vague link
to promote his anti-Amiga Inc stance on PPC hardware. Fails
to realise that the audience is bored.
With this item and the crowing about MorphOS running on
the AmigaONE ( no it isnt ) the childish tactics are back
in season. There is *no way* that MorphOS COULD
be running on an A1G3SE at the moment.
So what are they (Thendic) trying to say, oh yes that old one that
is supposed to put everyone off - that Eyetech are using
and adapting an already designed, produced and tested board
from Mai called the TeronCX rather than being a custom design
with a custom slot for expansions that no third party supports
or produces modules for. Yeah, real benefits. Oh no watch
me start crying because it isnt made by a German/French
cartel that claims to have some intangible sense of
Amiganess that everyone else lacks.
Frankly I think that the ROM dongle mechanism has one
prime overriding reason to use it. Does anyone left have
a memory greater in capacity than a nanoseconds worth?
Without the certification scheme we would again be wide
open for the con schemes from illuminaries such as
IWIN, AntiGravity and all the others. Hardly a legacy you
want to take forward into the mainstream.
Grow up!
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@DaveP
According to this news-item both A1 and the new Teron are
identical on the HW-level.
I see no reason why MOS shouldn't run on the Teron, and if
you believe Alan&Ben it's no problem to boot other OSes from
PCBoot. All that needs to be done are some minor adjustments to
the boot-file.
Trying to bring Thendic into the light of IWin or Antigravity
is simple childish as the Pegasos has been proven to be
working (including MorphOS) and is allready in the Hand of
(few) users, something that never happened with the other two.
I've also not seen Thendic collecting any pre-payments.
So if you really need to call someone a "con-artist" in
the current market I would suggest starting somewhere else.
AInc has taken pre-payments twice.
Eyetech sold "A1-ready"-towers right to the announcment of
the A1.5.
Elbox is selling Mediators with the promise of the Shark.
No I don't call them "con-artists", but those
are the ones that still have a chance to fall in that category.
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Kronos wrote:
the Pegasos has been proven to be
working (including MorphOS) and is allready in the Hand of
(few) users, something that never happened with the other two.
Kronos, you know that's untrue: there are users (betatesters, like the Pegasos) with AmigaOnes.
Me, for example. Ole-Egil, Justin... There are others, but they haven't publicly identified themselves, so I can't name them.
I've also not seen Thendic collecting any pre-payments.
I seem to remember 50% being asked upfront at one point. OTOH, Eyetech didn't cash my cheque until my board was ready to ship.
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@teapot
Learn to read :-P
The "other two" are iWin and the BoXeR ....
And yes Thendic asked for 50% from dealers but not endusers,
and thats not absolutly uncommon.
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anarchic_teapot wrote:
Remember that this is a limited-interest mobo for the moment, and IMO it is highly unlikely that any other dealer for Europe actually exists. So you'll still be buying from Eyetech.
Mai themselves will sell it (just like they did with the "evaluation" Teron CX) and most likely Terrasoft and Total Impact will be among the initial distributors, as well as Inguard since they already sell the "evaluation" version. With this nifty Internet invention I don't care any more about which continent my vendor is located on, than I care about which trademark is used for the stuff I buy from him. (The firstly mentioned concern could however be a valid concern for me, in contrast to the trademark nonsense.)
Remember that the firmware, which basically enables the mobo to boot, and the Amiga ROM are not the same thing, neither conceptually nor physically. I suspect that when they talk about not necessarily using the same firmware as the A1, they mean that there may be a few differences in the code, eg default OS may be Linux rather than AOS.
If the "anti piracy" (hardware-licensee confirmation) code will be in a separate ROM or in the board's firmware is irrelevant. It has the same technically irrelevant purpose either way.
When Bill Mueller says he doesn't know what firmware will be shipped with the boards, he means that he doesn't know what firmware will be shipped with the boards. "Default OS" has nothing to do with it, Mai is a hardware vendor. There is no "default OS". Since I can't think of any firmware suitable for this kind of hardware that can't boot Linux (other than a custom-written solution, which there is none from Mai), and Linux is the predominant "POP OS", it'd be kinda silly to flash the boards with a Linux-incompatible firmware. Third party distributors like Eyetech, Terrasoft et c. as well as end-users can of course reflash them with whatever they like.
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure it's the debugging etc work on the A1 which now enables MAI to market their board in this way.
WTF? Eyetech has nothing to do with any hardware development of neither this board nor the "evaluation" version (the "A1 developer version"). What Mai's customers, like Eyetech, do with software like the firmware has nothing to do with hardware design or Mai's marketing of their own products. Bill Mueller is the sole developer of the Teron CX / A1, and he is one of the two developers at Mai who do all motherboard designs and signal integrity development. He does not "know what or who we do our contracts with".
This is good news, since it has spread the costs of A1 development and should also reduce the final cost of the boards to users since more are expected to be sold.
Yes, it's good news. Even better news, following your reasoning above and common sense, would be if AmigaOS users could directly benefit from larger sales, more competition and unrestricted vendor options. Extending this reasoning further, AmigaOS would benefit from being sold to a wider hardware base, instead of not running on it at all or as pirated copies.
I do wish you'd think things through before kneejerking out this sort of emotive nonsense.
Please point out the emotive nonsense in the above news item, so we can let Mai know the truth about their products...
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There is a good reason why it cannot run on the A1G3
at the moment.
Its totally amusing actually I wish I could say more.
Sure, if they are hardware identical maybe it will run on
TeronCX and A1G3 eventually after X,Y, and Z happens.
;-)
What is the freakin big deal tho?
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DaveP wrote:
Never happen, like a bad lobbyist he uses any vague link to promote his anti-Amiga Inc stance on PPC hardware. Fails to realise that the audience is bored.
"He"? Hey! Dave! I'm right here! ;)
Now, what in an announcement about the very same PPC hardware that many people here are waiting for is "boring the audience"? Should amiga.org remove the PPC and the Hardware categories, and replace them with an "Eyetech's AmigaOne" category?
With this item and the crowing about MorphOS running on the AmigaONE ( no it isnt ) the childish tactics are back in season. There is *no way* that MorphOS COULD be running on an A1G3SE at the moment.
I have sweet FA to do with what that Bill Buck character says. Don't lump me in with corporate propaganda from either imaginary "side", please. But why would you say something like that about that OS and that hardware? Is there any reason to why this OS would *not* run on hardware like the TeronCX/A1?
I haven't even tried the 0.4 version of MorphOS, but since it obviously is already running on a piece of hardware very similar to the TeronCX, why would this be impossible?
So what are they (Thendic) trying to say, oh yes that old one that is supposed to put everyone off - that Eyetech are using and adapting an already designed, produced and tested board from Mai called the TeronCX rather than being a custom design with a custom slot for expansions that no third party supports or produces modules for. Yeah, real benefits. Oh no watch me start crying because it isnt made by a German/French cartel that claims to have some intangible sense of Amiganess that everyone else lacks.
I think you're being childish. First, it's Mai and me that's saying that the "production" Teron CX hardware design = A1G3SE, and yes this is good. I'd hate to see some custom made stuff being made our only allowed option. And I haven't seen Thendic or any other company commenting on that, what I have seen is Eyetech claiming that the A1 would be some "special" hardware that they had some part in designing, or even that it's "a new Amiga", which I still don't understand why they would say since it's always been obviously untrue and it'd make their hardware commercially unattractive in any market segment other than the few hardcore sub-petric dwellers who'd buy anything as long as it's got a boingball.
Second, why should you or me give a crap about what hardware people want to buy? It's just hardware. There are no more Amigas, which we can have old-sk00l flamewars over with those evil Atari/whatever users. There's just hardware, a commodity. If someone want's a TeronCX/A1, fine, if someone else wants a Pegasos, fine, if someone else wants an XYZ, fine again. The main thing is that we're all buying and using AmigaOS, not what label someone has slapped on our hardware or from whom we buy our hardware and what software our vendor decides to bundle with it. Right? If you don't like the Pegasos or whatever other than an Eyetech-distributed motherboard, so what? That should be your choice, just as other hardware should be available for others to choose. That's a necessity for a consumer/desktop OS to survive these days.
Without the certification scheme we would again be wide open for the con schemes from illuminaries such as IWIN, AntiGravity and all the others. Hardly a legacy you want to take forward into the mainstream.
That is plain silly. If a customer feels threatened by that vast dark mass of evil PPC hardware vendors out there (like the infamous con-artists Apple, Mai, Terrasoft, bplan, Total Impact...), he should be able to choose a "certified" or "licensed" vendor. That is in no way an excuse or justification for a compulsory licensing/bundling/dongling scheme.
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Seehund, one thing you consistently fail to recognise is the fact that MAI would not have been able to market these boards at this price if Eyetech would not have approached them with the AmigaOne project.
It was Eyetech that insisted on revising the specs of the board (Southbridge etc.) and who guaranteed a minimal production run.
It's Hyperion who are currently in colloboration with others doing the firmware for these boards.
I think you simply don't understand that there is now a partnership in place between Mai and Eyetech with respect to marketing these boards to different markets.
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HyperionMP wrote:
MAI would not have been able to market these boards at this price if Eyetech would not have approached them with the AmigaOne project.
Come on! That's nonsense. What, have you fallen for Eyetech's "$3900 myth" too? ;) Even the old "evaluation" boards were available for sale to the general public at "less than $300" if you were prepared to mount a separately delivered CPU of your choice yourself and didn't need the costly full developer support package.
It was Eyetech that insisted on revising the specs of the board (Southbridge etc.) and who guaranteed a minimal production run.
Nonsense again. Eyetech may have insisted whatever they liked, it would have no bearing on Mai's decision on what to do with their own hardware design, which they already had done at the time. It's the same thing as with the "AmigaOne XE", no mobo without a permanently soldered-down CPU was to be offered to us stupid AmigaOS users by Eyetech until they learned of the Teron PX. The embarrassing marketing on Eyetech's A1 pages even speaks of how "their engineers" "borrowed the latest cpu socket technology from Apple in the form of the purpose-designed ‘Megarray’ socket."
Also, when you have a ready PCB layout and have even already produced this at a fab, there's no need for a "minimal production run". Welcome to the JIT production of the 21st century (or even the late 20th...). If there would be any "minimal production run", it would be done thanks to the Linux and hw/sw developer markets.
It's Hyperion who are currently in colloboration with others doing the firmware for these boards.
Yes? That is not hardware design or hardware production.
I think you simply don't understand that there is now a partnership in place between Mai and Eyetech with respect to marketing these boards to different markets.
Uh, yes?? Eyetech will be one of Mai's hardware distributors, are you saying that there's ANYONE who doesn't understand that yet? Doesn't this very news item say so?
The point is still that there are totally viable hardware options, and even the exact same hardware as the "licensed" one out there, but AmigaOS users will not be allowed to buy it, and we won't even be allowed to buy AmigaOS separate from "licensed" hardware.
Now isn't there an OS to produce and try to get to run on as much hardware as possible and sell as much as possible, instead of backing up the business practices of one specific hardware distributor in online forums? I'd like to buy that OS. :)
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Whatever you say Seehund.
Your comments are completely off the mark.
Hyperion is in constant contact with MAI's top-brass as developers of the Teron CX/AmigaOne Bios.
Don't you think we have a better insight into the situation than you?
II'll reiterate it again: MAI had no intention of mass-marketing these boards prior to the Eyetech deal.
MAI produces Northbridges for use with PPC, MIPS and x86 CPU's intended for embedded systems.
The boards they had designed and built were intended as evaluation boards to further this business, nothing more.
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Also, when you have a ready PCB layout and have even already produced this at a fab, there's no need for a "minimal production run". Welcome to the JIT production of the 21st century (or even the late 20th...). If there would be any "minimal production run", it would be done thanks to the Linux and hw/sw developer markets.
Ever heard of the need to source parts in quantity to keep costs down?
What you are proposing is economic nonsense.
And please don't start with the Linux PPC nonsense. Fact of the matter is that Linux PPC is marginal compared to Linux x86 and underdeveloped in quite a few areas.
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Ben, you ignore my point, even if someone else than Mai had anything whatsoever to do with Mai's product development, what would that matter? What matters is that there is not only valid alternative designs to the "licensed" hardware option, there's even an identical option. This is of course not very surprising, what's mind-boggling is that we AmigaOS users will still only be allowed to buy specifically selected hardware from (a) specially selected redistributor(s).
(Not that the plural "s" will ever become reality, but to satisfy the nitpickers...)
Hyperion is in constant contact with MAI's top-brass as developers of the Teron CX/AmigaOne Bios.
So you said, and that is still not hardware design or hardware production, and it has no bearing on that either.
Don't you think we have a better insight into the situation than you?
Actually, no, and I'm certainly not saying that I would have any special insight into Mai's product strategies and development.
Saying "hi Jason, hi Vasudha, we've modified a GPLed firmware for your product, wanna have it?" doesn't mean that the already produced and available product Eyetech is buying will become... umm... produced and available just because of that.
The very person who designed the hardware and who demonstrated it running YDL at LW does not yet know what firmware will be shipped pre-installed by default. Who cares? Switching firmware is usually a matter of two minutes of grinding from the floppy drive.
II'll reiterate it again: MAI had no intention of mass-marketing these boards prior to the Eyetech deal.
If the numbers Eyetech can be expected to distribute can be described as "mass-marketing", I'd say Mai already had some serious mass-marketing going on, both by themselves and that Inguard distributor.
Ever heard of the need to source parts in quantity to keep costs down?
Sure, but you were talking about "minimal production runs". It's not as if these puppies are suddenly mass produced and CHEAP, or use brand new hard-to-get components like the latest G4s, or custom components other than their own Articias, is it? Reaching a "minimal production run" order level is just not necessary to have the fab you hired push the Start button on their assembly line with already purchased components and a ready PCB design.
But as I said, Sure. Sure there is always a price difference between many and few. And sure, AmigaOS needs to run on exactly the same hardware from exactly the same distributors as the "rest of the world" uses for this effect to benefit AmigaOS users and the commercial attractiveness of AmigaOS to the largest extent - like it i for ANY OS.
And please don't start with the Linux PPC nonsense. Fact of the matter is that Linux PPC is marginal compared to Linux x86 and underdeveloped in quite a few areas.
What are you on about now? Why are you comparing Linux PPC with Linux x86 now? Linux x86 doesn't run on a Teron CX. AmigaOS will run on a Teron CX and Linux PPC runs on a Teron CX, compare the current market size of Linux (and every other desktop PPC OS) with the current market size of AmigaOS4. Which pulls the most weight in PPC hardware development, AmigaOS or every other OS? AmigaOS simply cannot afford to differentiate itself from an already small hardware market, and most certainly not by silly artificial means for no valid technical reason whatsoever.
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A small selection out of a huge wodge of bovine excrement...
Seehund wibbled:
WTF? Eyetech has nothing to do with any hardware development of neither this board nor the "evaluation" version (the "A1 developer version"). What Mai's customers, like Eyetech, do with software like the firmware has nothing to do with hardware design or Mai's marketing of their own products. Bill Mueller is the sole developer of the Teron CX / A1, and he is one of the two developers at Mai who do all motherboard designs and signal integrity development. He does not "know what or who we do our contracts with".
READ MY LIPS: FIRMWARE IS NOT HARDWARE. Why should a hardware specialist get mixed up with what firmware/OS is run on it? Why do you suddenly try to evade the issue? You assumed Amiga ROM and OF were the same thing once again.
Incidentally, you don't know (nor do I, and nor, I suspect does Mr Mueller) if the Teron mobo set to go on sale in a couple of months isn't simply the AmigaOne.
You don't know what work has been done by the A1 developers over the past few months. Nor, clearly, does Bill Mueller, but he has the honesty to say "I don't know".
Sorry everybody. I forgot for a moment that Seehund never faces up to reality and admits he got things wrong, but will twist and turn, usually accusing the person who corrects him of making the mistake.
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And old LP running the same track over and over and over comes into mind.
Boring? Very.
/Björn
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Kronos wrote:
Learn to read
Ah yes. Sorry. Low blood-caffeine level.
And yes Thendic asked for 50% from dealers but not endusers,
I knew I remembered seeing something like that. However, technically there are no endusers for the Pegasos/MOS combo, only betatesters.
Let's face it, it's just frustrating not having the 2 mobos on the open market complete with OS.
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Saying "hi Jason, hi Vasudha, we've modified a GPLed firmware for your product, wanna have it?" doesn't mean that the already produced and available product Eyetech is buying will become... umm... produced and available just because of that.doesn't mean that the already produced and available product Eyetech is buying will become... umm... produced and available just because of that.
BH: Sorry Seehund but that comment just disqualified you as somebody you can have a reasonable discussion with.
If you really think that a company like MAI conducts business in this way, that's the end of the debate for me.
"hi Jason, hi Vasudha, we've modified a GPLed firmware for your product, wanna have it?"
Give me a break ...
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Couldn't resist this: talking nonsense verifiable by anyone who can click an URL...
Seehund wibbled:
What, have you fallen for Eyetech's "$3900 myth" too? ;) Even the old "evaluation" boards were available for sale to the general public at "less than $300"
pricing for Teron CX (http://www.mai.com/products/teron%20cx.htm)
Careful readers will note that it is not specifically stated that the CPU chip is included in the price. :-D
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@teapot
Evaluation-system (with support) : 3900 (1st) 2340 (2nd - 5th).
TeronCX-MK1 (not available anymore) ~300 (without CPU)
TeronCX-MK2(A1) ~500 (including CPU).
Simple isn't it ? :-D
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A small selection out of a huge wodge of bovine excrement...
I love you too. :)
READ MY LIPS: FIRMWARE IS NOT HARDWARE.
Umm, read my post, I have never said anything like that. What you quoted was my reply to this:
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure it's the debugging etc work on the A1 which now enables MAI to market their board in this way.
Apparently you meant "the work on the A1 firmware"? I interpreted it as "work on the A1", partially because that's what the text says, and partially because firmware design/debugging has not much to do with Mai's hardware design or whatever firmware options their distributors will be loading on it.
Incidentally, you don't know (nor do I, and nor, I suspect does Mr Mueller) if the Teron mobo set to go on sale in a couple of months isn't simply the AmigaOne.
It is the "AmigaOne", well it is when Eyetech has relabelled it and put their "Amiga ROM" :-D in it.
You don't know what work has been done by the A1 developers over the past few months.
You added Teron CX specific code to PPCBoot and made another bunch of Linux distros run on the board? No? Then what did you do that has anything to do with this thread: More hardware and vendor options out of reach for AmigaOS users?
Sorry everybody.
No need to apologise, I know a "*plonk* (http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43072)" is easily forgotten. ;) Your concern for what everybody should read and think of what they read is surely appreciated. :)
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Couldn't resist this: talking nonsense verifiable by anyone who can click an URL...
Or send an e-mail:
From: "Marketing Department"
To: "Emanuel Mair"
Subject: Re: Pricing
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:18:45 -0800
Thanks for your interest in Mai Logic products. The Teron CX evaluation
board is priced at US $3,900 ( technical suppport is also included in the
price). However, we also sell commercial Teron CX boards that include bare
board without CPU and SDRAM for less than US $300. We will provide the CPU
of your choice at the current market price seperately.
That was HALF A YEAR AGO, and I thought most people here had seen it, but, as I said, I see the "$3900 myth" lives on.
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Kronos:
Evaluation-system (with support) : 3900 (1st) 2340 (2nd - 5th).
TeronCX-MK1 (not available anymore) ~300 (without CPU)
Dunno where the $300 one comes from. One of Seehund's inventions, I reckon. Or is he thinking of the first A1 dev board run? Anyway, I suppose it's par for the course for a guy who's just publicly stated that he reckons he knows as much about MAI's relationship with Hyperion as Hyperion do themselves. Obvious he's the only person on the planet who knows that Eyetech's prototype was an eval board without CPU or support (funny: the people who saw it the day it arrived in the UK all swear it booted just as if it had a CPU, and we on the dev list have seen support coming from MAI).
TeronCX-MK2(A1) ~500 (including CPU).
Yup, that's how I read it too. I'd love to speculate about the price being slightly cheaper than planned for us Europeans, but that's all it would be: speculation. Maybe we'll know a bit more after the @lchimie show this weekend? You know, the one with both Eyetech and Thendic displaying their wares?
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"eval board without cpu " ????
Alan's board was one of those $3900 evaluation kits (with cpu)
and he later admitted that when Ron couldn't boot into Linux
on his just delieverd A1.
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@Seehund:
I fail to see what you're complaining about. The original Teron used an old (and buggy) softex firmware that didn't set up the board properly. There's no way they could have sold it to end-users in that state. Eyetech/Hyperion have added a working firmware that makes productive use of the boards possible. Could Mai have done this themselves? Yes. Would they? Probably not. They're a chipset company. The sale of their "evaluation" systems to end users is a sideline that they presumably want somebody else to handle because it isn't their core business. If Eyetech hadn't approached them it probably wouldn't have happened - it's not as if Dell were competing for the contract :-P
And yes, you can get a board from Mai or other companies. Yes you can order one over the internet for a bit less than Eyetech's current price. Yes, you can put the processor in yourself (though many people wouldn't be happy doing that) And yes, you'll get f*ck*d by the revenue when it hits customs.
Internet ordering and importation may be great for the odd CD or video, but I wouldn't fancy your chances of avoiding the handling charges on something as expensive as a computer.
What Eyetech and Hyperion have done is fix up a board crippled by crap firmware, port (the latest available) linux to it, start porting OS4 to it and make it easily available in Europe. If all you can do is slag them off for that, piss off.
The OS4 licensing issue may annoy you (I'm not mad-keen on it) but it is a necessary evil to avoid widespread piracy, and you do get the choice of whether to get the OS4 compatible version of the board at purchase time. It may theoretically cost more than the teron, but any extra cost is effectively part of the purchase price of OS4.
@HyperionMP
Ben, you should post here more often - it's quite disturbing to see the appointed developer of OS4 labelled "Beginner" :-P
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@Black_Sab-fan
Well when it comes to OS-development, Ben IS still a beginner :roll:
:-D :-o :-P :-P :-o :-D
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"Well when it comes to OS-development, Ben IS still a beginner"
ok then what OS HAS THE MOS CREW made before MOS ?
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Hmm Ben IS a beginner in OS-development and I fail to see what
my funny remark has to do with MorphOS (other than paranoia).
But since you have asked ...
a) MorphOS has been started far earlier than Hyperion-OS4,
and is allready working (but not finished), so that proove
that they can write a full blown OS, ergo no beginners.
You could also see the PuP-kernel as an mini-OS, since it has
all the main features that a kernel needs.
Again this was clearly a joke !!
You should also remember that the OS is not done by Ben himself
(thank god), but by his employees, and that every time Ben
gets "technical" on ann.lu, hilarious fun is secured (/me just
remember his Intui-68k = Intui-PPC speeches).
Ben may be good at making deals, and he's damn good at stiring
the masses (marketing), but he is no developer.
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Kronos your full of crap.
starting first does not= better
& i see alot of project started & not finshed like V3 is still crap & buggy.
V3 was started before IB2.2 & yet IB kicks its ass.
& the dev times means nothing if the ppl doing the coding are crap & thats way V3 still has more buggs than IB & Aweb put together.
so lets say i start to write an OS but i have never done any coding before but spend 10 years on it cos im lerning to code at the same time & then a coder of many years thinks he can do a better os & has the same features as mine
& have been working on it for 5 years , do you think i can say yours is not as good as mine cos i have been at it for ten years & you have only been at it five.
& then he says but mine is finshed & ill say it must be crap & full of bugs for you to finsh ahead of me because it has takem me 10 & im still debuging.
you should not guage hyperion by the MOS team.
as your saying that the MOS team are better coders & faster & thus there is noway that hyperion could do better in less time.
but i think hyerion team are the better coders so they need less time to get the job done.
& if i were you i would not keep commenting on Aos4 & the A1 see as your clearly a MOS fan & ppl will just not see you as being unbiased.
just like black ppl will take jokes about black ppl better than black jokes from a white guy & thats just the say it is.
& you dont seem to give credit when credit is due, you never seem to give the pros & cons about Aos4 or A1 you only give the cons.
WE ALL KNOW yoy dont think A1 or AOS4 will be as good as MOS or the BPlan mobo.
so pls dont carry on.
i dont like windows but i have never gone to a windows forum day after day & keep pointing out the cons of windows & then say use AmigaOs is better & keep on & on day after day with the same noise
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
O.k. let's rewind a bit:
1) Somebody writes that he didn't like Ben being labeled a beginner.
2) I make a joke about it by stating the obvious fact that Ben is a
beginner in OS-development.
3)You come along an bring the MOS-team into the discussion.
4)I answer that in full honesty.
5)I'm the one who is full of crap ???
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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"3)You come along an bring the MOS-team into the discussion."
you know full well that all this flaming & crap is in refernce to MOS other wise you would not be here putting down Aos4 all the time. to get ppl to take a look at MOS.
& i have seen you post links to MOS info on a clearly A1 & Aos4 topic on OS-NEWS stating oh i could not resist.
so dont play the good guy here.
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Well when it comes to OS-development, Ben IS still a beginner.
You are so naive. Do you really think that you have the knowledge to judge that? In case you have, on what parts does he not have the skill to lead project such as AOS4?
BTW, Kronos. It is a good thing to think before you open your mouth since personal insults doesnt suits you.
/W
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HyperionMP wrote:
BH: Sorry Seehund but that comment just disqualified you as somebody you can have a reasonable discussion with.
If you really think that a company like MAI conducts business in this way, that's the end of the debate for me.
"hi Jason, hi Vasudha, we've modified a GPLed firmware for your product, wanna have it?"
Give me a break ...
You're a smart man Ben, don't pretend to be stupid. Did you expect a reenactment of a complete corporate negotiation dialogue in a web forum? It's called "jokingly paraphrasing for illustratory purposes". For example, when people say that a Crimo$oft EULA says "By installing this software, all your first born child are belong to us", then they are joking, this exact text is nowhere to be found in the EULA.
Give me a break... ;)