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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: GadgetMaster on September 02, 2002, 09:43:40 AM
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Source: Morphos-news.de (http://www.morphos-news.de/?lg=en&nid=69&si=1)
02-Sep-2002:
There have been many rumours regarding MorphOS and its legal standing. After careful consideration, we have concluded that those allegations are unfounded, those most frequently raised being the following two.
Read More HERE (http://www.morphos-news.de/?lg=en&nid=69&si=1)
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Wow, Who'da thunk that they would say that... Then again, Who is "All of us..."?
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I bet we would have new/finished Amiga related products in hand if these guys would "just get along" and channel thier thought an energy into the products and not wasteful argument, and litegation. :-?
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@Fozzy
Nah we can't have that !
Atleast not as long as we have Bill, Bill, fleecy, Ben, Ralph,
Hans-Jörg, Steffen, Harald, Gary, Alan, Gerald, Jürgen .....
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"fighting useless battles"
Idont know about You, but Im getting tired of this.
It cannot be good with all this negativity, thrown
from one side to the other and back again forever.
Or maybe this is all a game of hockey.
And we are the spectators.
Bring on the beer.
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Huh? I don't get it.
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@red
if youre referring to *my* post, Im just very negative
comming from ANN, reading about this and all that
swirls up with it.
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@blubbe
hehe no I was not refering to your your post:-P
I don't get what Thendic think they will accomplish with this statement.
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yes let's have several companies fighting over a few thousand users yes yes indeedeeee dodley dooo..
what genious!! remarkable, unbeliveable...
what strategy, what (put something ÜBER here)!!!
Oh the amiga!!!!!!!!
:roll:
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> It has often been said that MorphOS is based on
> stolen source code.
It is often said that the MorphOS team illegally used Amiga owned source code to implement their AmigaOS compatibility. That's an important difference IMO, as when MorphOS was based on Amiga IP MorphOS would be *fundamentally* an illegal product, howver in the other case the illegal components could be removed.
> Unfair Competition
LOL, I think not many people are claiming that. But of course bPLan must make it very clear that their Pegasos and MorphOS products are not Amiga products. There was alot of confusion with regard to that in the past due to bPlan not being clear enough. For instance a german TV show was about to demonstrate the Pegasos as the new Amiga, that can of course never be allowed to happen, they would have needed to buy Amiga's IP for millions of dollars from Gateway themselves for that to happen!
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Thats interesting, a tacit admission that OS3.1 sources
were used but the claim is that those were "freely given".
Been down this road before and unless that was "freely given"
with a watertight written agreement that these could be used to
develop a new product thats going to be nasty grounds to
try and fight.
All those people that claimed that MorphOS DIDNT use
AOS sources at any point now look a bit stupid.
Whether or not it was illegally used is up for dibs in court.
Anyone for popcorn and softdrinks? :-D
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@MikeB
BPLan never said that they were the new "Amiga" to get to that
show, that was a mistake made by 3/Sat, and yes that has been
confirmed by 3/Sat(ZDF).
Shouting "illegal" in public forums without ever delievering any
proof is unfair competition, and if AInc/Ben can't proove
their accusations then they can be sued over them.
And yes both McBill and Ben have been talking about stolen
sources (and a whole lot of other things), and that is what
they have to proove.
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@DaveP
I don't think they mean the 3.1 sources, but stuff from
(3rd party) books and AROS, which has been accepted by the
various owners of name for the last 10 years.
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I read the first "point" , fell about laughing, and read no further.
Since when is "why would anyone do that?" proof of innocence, or anything else?
Example:
We're currently - as a species - consuming the resources on this planet at such a speed that it would require 1.4 Earths to allow us to do this indefinitely. That's an average, of course: some people consume rather more (if you're reading this you're almost certainly amongst those who consume well over 2 Earths, probably 2.5 to 3 - I got down to 2.1 in the test by switching off as many electrical appliances as possible and going vegetarian. And I don't heat much in winter).
So we're burning up the resources on our planet faster than they can be renewed. That's stupid. Why would anyone want to do that?
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@Kronos
I realise you are just giving me your opinion but i am sceptical
about your conclusions.
1. Doesnt tally with the statement. They say blessing of company.
AROS != Company. If they had meant AROS they would have
said "other sources with the blessing of the company".
2. Which books contain the OS3.x sources? There are really OLD books out there one of which if
I recall contains the OS1.2 source code - well most of it
but the revisions 1.3->3.0 make this almost useless.
PS:
I thought you were in a different league to Cheesegrate but
I see you using "name" a lot as a veiled insult and here again.
Don't you think it is going to get people riled up on a thread that was always
going to be sensitive and might end up as a useless flame war?
I realise you mean it as a joke but a joke oft repeated loses
its humour.
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@DaveP
AROS had the blessing of several owners of the name (or Amiga
if you like that better), so it could easily be meant.
Sources for Exec_1.x, are still usefull, because Exec still works
in the same way.
Try to read it as this:
Why should we use AOS-sources (often in asm or HW-hitting)
when free alternativs exist ?
It's not about believing NoBucksBill or yesterdays deadline
for me, but about the fact what has been (not) done by AInc
in the last 18 months or so.
According to Ben MorphOS has been illegal from the start, and
he had the proove for it. After the failed MOS=OS4 talks it
became pretty clear that bPlan where planning to go on on their
own (and now with Thendic). If AInc had taken legal action last
year, than they might have had a chance to bring back the lost
"sheep", which is impossible now. But what they have allready
reached is fanatizing the "community", and raising fear and
uncertainty among the undecided.
Thats probraly all they ever wanted, and a trial was never a real
option.
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>I don't get what Thendic think they will accomplish with this statement.
It's FUD. :)
(for those who dont know, FUD=Fear Uncertainty and Disinformation)
Ivan
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OK I get your point now :-)
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>Shouting "illegal" in public forums without ever delievering any
>proof is unfair competition, and if AInc/Ben can't proove
>their accusations then they can be sued over them.
I remember Thendic calling it an Amiga, then an NG Amiga, then an
Amiga replacement. etc etc etc. Thendic's been backpeddeling the
whole way and HAS given the impression that its an Amiga system.
As for MOS and what sources were used, you can speculate all you
want in favour of the MOS side, its still just speculation and
MOS still only offers legacy emulation. Nothing new here people,
use UAE or Amithilon. It's alot cheaper for legacy compatability
and alot more work has been put into them. UAE has been around for
years.
P.S. Kronos, stop with the 'the name' bullsh!t trolling already.
Ivan
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@ Ivan
Just a little correction and an elaboration on the term FUD. (Fear Uncertainty Doubt)
FUD /fuhd/ An acronym invented by Gene Amdahl after he left IBM to found his own company: "FUD is the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that IBM sales people instill in the minds of potential customers who might be considering [Amdahl] products." The idea, of course, was to persuade them to go with safe IBM gear rather than with competitors' equipment. This implicit coercion was traditionally accomplished by promising that Good Things would happen to people who stuck with IBM, but Dark Shadows loomed over the future of competitors' equipment or software.
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@Ivan
Sure it's all specualtion, and thats all we've seen in the last years.
Both MOS and OS4 will start with legacy emulation (no/few
native apps) and will try to move ahead from there.
So Amithlon/UAE will be the most sensible choice of all three
in the near future.
And before you start on OS4-features, you should remember that
none of this has been shown in real life, and the MOS_1.0
will be far more than 0.4.
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@Kronos
Deny it if you choose, but I think you have inside information on this topic. ;-) :-D
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@Gadget
Not really, but I may be forced to get a#
bit less vocal in 11 days ;-)
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>Sure it's all specualtion, and thats all we've seen in the last years.
>Both MOS and OS4 will start with legacy emulation (no/few
>native apps) and will try to move ahead from there.
True enough.
>So Amithlon/UAE will be the most sensible choice of all three
>in the near future.
Unless of course you want the latest version of the OS. If you wan't
emulators for outdated versions they are available. I hear you can
emulate old versions of MACOS on Amiga's too. I'd rather have a MAC
to use MAC apps though. Wouldn't you?
>will be far more than 0.4.
Was that a typo or are you some kind of fanatic who has to bash
anything Amiga whenever he can?
Ivan
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I think he was referring to MorphOS V0.4 and saying that the V1.0 will be much different.
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Yes and FUD now has a generic meaning.
1/ Like saying that because no one answered telephones at AInc
at 0300 hours in the morning means that AInc has run out
of money and has been shut down.
2/ Like saying that there is no way that AOS4 could catch up
with MorphOS because MorphOS has been in development
for years and AOS had not ( not only fud but factually
and logically incorrect as well as illustrating a lack of basic
understanding about project management ).
3.. etc
All designed to put people off one platform, company without
any real factual basis.
I still don't believe the claim that MOS is an innocent in this
and that it has never abused the Amiga name ( next gen Amiga
etc all been used before ). A lot of sour grapes has come from the
MOS "faction" especially since losing the contract for OS4.
Thendic are in my view in a league of thier own and I disregard them
and give them my utter contempt and they bring BPlan no credibility
what-so-ever.
On the other hand Ben Hermans during a few flame wars
where he was trying to explain how a hypothetical legal
case could be built perpetrated some FUD himself.
I have said from the start, lets shut up and let them go
to court to settle this, its the only way. Even if they settle
amicably the "factions" will make ludicrous claims that
it was because one side or the other caved in or realised
they wouldnt win etc and pretend to have inside knowledge.
The factions are absolutely pathetic in their behaviour as are
some of the companies involved.
Releasing bullish public statements like the ones linked
are all part of the game and are nothing new. But suggesting
the community will turn against Amiga Inc if AInc actually
go to court is just childish and does not allow for the fact
that most people can think for themselves and are happy
to watch BUSINESSES fight it out. Sure a small subset
of the community are going to get all arsey and even start
silly campaigns but the silent mature majority will just shut
the f*ck up and let them get on with it.
My last word on the subject I promise :-D
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>I think he was referring to MorphOS V0.4 and saying that the V1.0 will be much different.
My mistake, i apologize.
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@Gadget
And I thought that had been clear ....
@Ivan
Yes I believe that MOS_1.0 will be more than OS4, and I
have no problem saying that in normal terms.
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Using the name Amiga with a product will draw some attention offcourse. And that is what one wants offcourse.
Coder
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I'm getting really sick and tired about all that OS4/MorphOS stuff.
AmigaInc? Well, instead of spending time on looking at what the competition does, maybe they should do something themselves instead of speaking empty words. Weren't they announcing at latest Amiga show that they are 18 months behind with AmigaDE? So how long do they exist? 2 years or 3? It's quite easy to make conclusions, i think. Nobody even knows if there are still people working at Amiga Inc (how can there be if you are 18 months behind shedule)?
MorpOs? Well, they are parasites, claiming not to be interested in the Amiga but there is not one day they don't appear on the Amiga news sites. They have one of the most unpolite and damn rude people at the "top" (hum if you can call this top). But this does not say anything about the product MorphOs of which we know very little (no screenshots, no specs,...). It may be good, who knows? The MorphOs followers have put it in a very bad light imo. But again, it may well be good, so judgement when it is released.
This whole MorphOS - OS4 battle has made the Amiga platform a very sad platform to be interested in. While i have made the good decision not to visit ANN again (never), it is not fun anymore. It's damn right depressing sometimes. Luckily there still is the unbelievable and often very funny Amiga.Org forum, otherwise :-x
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Why not spend all that time on OS4 and make it a kick-ass product. Then you have OS4 and MOS and OS4 will show why it is called an AmigaOS. :-)
Honest, I do not have any opinion about this MOS/OS4 battle. I will see what happens.
Coder
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>There are really OLD books out there one of which
>ifI recall contains the OS1.2 source code
And those books are the most important. .
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Oh, so that's who "All of us..." is, Why didn't they say so...
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While the Linux world is forming the “United Linux” alliance, the Amiga world plagued with division and infighting.
Can’t both MOS group and AInc group form a new united company with each entities has a stake in the new company?
Anyone for "United Amiga Inc"(i.e. UAI for short)?
This proposed united company will be run as a committee and the voting power (also corresponds to revenue proportion) is determined by the level of cash injection/investment into the new entity.
1. Bplan group (under banner of UAI label) can cover central (including Germany)/Eastern Europe and Russia.
2. Eyetech group (under banner of UAI label) can cover Western Europe and the Untied kingdom.
3. Who wants to cover this The Middle East region?
4. Who wants to cover this Asian region?
5. AInc group (under banner of UAI label) can cover North American region?
6. Who wants to cover this South American region?
7. Who wants to cover this Oceania region?
The development teams(i.e. Hyperion and MOS) will be run like MS i.e.
One group does the Windows 9x R&D (focus on consumer OS side of things), while the other group does the Windows NT R&D (focus on enterprise OS side of things).
They may need an IDE and Office developer partner.
They combine to form WindowsXP product range (i.e. Home, Workstation, Sever, Advance Sever and ‘etc’).
The new product range implements the original “Windows NT” style program (i.e. available for PPC, Alpha, MIPS, x86 and etc), but with virtual processors (i.e. ether virtual 68k or VP solutions) to unite different CPU HW architectures.
Sigh…