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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: GadgetMaster on August 06, 2002, 09:01:14 PM

Title: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: GadgetMaster on August 06, 2002, 09:01:14 PM
There is a short interview with Amiga Inc. (http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/Interviews/AmigaINC&MorphOS.html) on Amitopia regarding MorphOS.

Please note that some questions predate the Amiwest 2002 announcements.

Source: Amitopia (http://www.amitopia.tk/)

Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: D@n on August 06, 2002, 09:08:49 PM
What kind of compatiblilty does MorphOS provide in regards to AmigaOS?
As far as I know it provides 68k emu. and Warp and Power Up, as well as Native MOS apps.
Can it also provide Native AOS4 app. compatiblity?
Cheers
D@n
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: xeron on August 06, 2002, 09:12:32 PM
MorphOS will not run apps that make use of AmigaOS4 features.

If Amiga successfully sue the MorphOS team, MorphOS won't run any Amiga software.

I think we should all just sit tight and see what happens.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: zacman on August 06, 2002, 09:30:07 PM
Cool. They disassembled MorphOS PPC code and
then showed that it is the same code as 68k
assembler?
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Kronos on August 06, 2002, 09:34:04 PM
O.k. only one comment:

Quote
instead of wanting to commander someone else's market,


It's OUR (the users) market, and NOT AInc, Eyetechs, Hyperion or
bPlan's market !! They all can deliever products to OUR market,
but the don't own us, and we can decide ourself what we buy.

He better made sure that he really has a "waterproof" case or this
will ne the end of AInc.

@zacman
The just passed their 68k-stuff through the 68_2_PPC-assmebler  ;-)
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: redrumloa on August 06, 2002, 09:38:06 PM
@Kronos

What is RS' reaction to this? :-?
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Kronos on August 06, 2002, 09:40:53 PM
@Red
Why do you ask me ? Am I his babysitter or what ?

Just send an email to laire@t-online.de or ask on the MorphOS-IRC
and you may find out.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: redrumloa on August 06, 2002, 09:50:59 PM
Quote
@Red
Why do you ask me ?


You're one of our resident MOS fans who seems to follow it pretty closely. On top of that you speak German and IIRC you frequent the boards he posts to.

Quote
Am I his babysitter or what ?


LOL, no your sister did date him once though right? :-P

Quote
Just send an email to laire@t-online.de


Oh heavens no!

Quote
or ask on the MorphOS-IRC


You trying to get me killed? :-P
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Coder on August 06, 2002, 09:52:20 PM
This MOS/OS4 battle will go on for a long time.

Coder
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Kronos on August 06, 2002, 09:56:02 PM
@Red
Mmmmh you don't wanne email, and you don't like to chat ....

Have you allready tried asking your wife ?
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Argo on August 06, 2002, 10:04:28 PM
your a naive little man... :)
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: whabang on August 06, 2002, 10:09:22 PM
@red

Didn't notice earlier;

"Defender of the faith" and then a pic of Clinton below the text.
LOL!  :-D  :-D  :-D
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: redrumloa on August 06, 2002, 10:12:15 PM
Quote
Mmmmh you don't wanne email, and you don't like to chat ....


Naw the only time I tried talking to him he accused me of having an agenda. So me in a MorphOS forum would be like a lynching:-P
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: redrumloa on August 06, 2002, 10:13:58 PM
Quote
"Defender of the faith" and then a pic of Clinton below the text.


Actually that's pretty bad now that you mention it :-x
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: seer on August 06, 2002, 10:18:09 PM
"Defender of the faith" and then a pic of Clinton below the text.

and

from: Monica Lewinsky's house


Hmm.....
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: redrumloa on August 06, 2002, 10:20:55 PM
Eatin aint cheatin
 :-P
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: whabang on August 06, 2002, 10:25:31 PM
(http://www16.brinkster.com/whabang/faith.jpg)
Teehee!
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: redrumloa on August 06, 2002, 10:31:04 PM
hehehe....yeeeeeesh.. Maybe I should add a inflamatory pic of clintler to my sig... Otherwise new users may really think I am a Clinton supporter..scary stuff :-o
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Agafaster on August 06, 2002, 11:52:29 PM
Defender of the Faith

Judas Priest Album ?!
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: bhoggett on August 07, 2002, 12:20:38 AM
That wouldn't be in the spirit of things. You're meant to look like a Clinton supporter as pennance for your sins.
 :-)
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: GadgetMaster on August 07, 2002, 12:58:33 AM
@Red
Quote
Maybe I should add a inflamatory pic of clintler to my sig... Otherwise new users may really think I am a Clinton supporter..scary stuff


I dont think it would really work because your is only displayed on forum posts not on news comments
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: anarchic_teapot on August 07, 2002, 01:49:20 AM
Kronos wibbled:
Quote
It's OUR (the users) market

Wrong. A user (buyer) may be in the market, but that market does not belong to him. Any more than the shop you go into to buy sweeties belongs to you.
Title: Creation of MorphOS
Post by: hnl_dk on August 07, 2002, 03:39:21 AM
Have you ever imagined the creation of MorphOS?

I have :idea:

(http://gnaf.hjem.orangenet.dk/creation_morphos.gif)

 :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D

PS: Coder do you recognizethat hand?
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: HeUnique on August 07, 2002, 04:24:07 AM
I hardly think so..

The MorphOS team got until September 1st to either sign a deal with Amiga Inc. or have a cease-and-desist order from Amiga.

MOS wants to go to a trial? it's their right, although I hardly see MOS wins, due to the simple reason - Amiga owns the code, and any patents are owned by Gateway - so if Amiga looses, Gateway will sue..

Hetz (HeUnique)
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: jdiffend on August 07, 2002, 04:42:19 AM
There are problems on both sides of this if it goes to court.

1. The disassembly of MorphOS won't match the disassembly of the AmigaOS68k.
2. Changing a program by 25% makes it eligible for a new copywrite... that doesn't refer to an individual subroutine but the work as a whole.
3. If (for example) you have a task of stepping through a linked list to find something the algorythm is likely to be the same or very similar no matter who implements it.  It's just the way it's done and is an obvious implementation and arguing they stole the code because their's is similar doesn't mean a lot.
4. Reverse engineering a product to make a compatible one IS legal to some extent.
5. All of the above is subject to interpretation and the argument can go either way depending on how a judge sees it.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: GadgetMaster on August 07, 2002, 05:19:29 AM
Many judges aren't that technically minded. They rely on others to explain how all this stuff works.

A wrong interpretaion could lead to a wrong decision.

I have first hand knowledge of this as the company that I worked for was taken to court (UK Small claims Court) over an alleged faulty CD Writer.

I was a witness on behalf of our company and the other side was using an independant technician.

Before any decision was made the independant techie and I were trying our best to explain to the Judge how a CD writer worked. No easy task when the judge hadn't even used a computer before.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: AmiGR on August 07, 2002, 06:25:23 AM
Bah, there are people MUCH closer to MorphOS than
Kronos.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: AmiGR on August 07, 2002, 06:26:30 AM
I can guess it. Let them prove that in court.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Coder on August 07, 2002, 02:45:38 PM
@HeUnique

Quote
The MorphOS team got until September 1st to either sign a deal with Amiga Inc. or have a cease-and-desist order from Amiga.


I am afraid that the stuff that Amiga wanted them to sue about is taken care of by the MOS team. Maybe there is still some left that is illegal or is sueable but I am afraid this will be a case that drags on forever in court. And that will do no good.

Coder
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Alkemyst on August 07, 2002, 03:18:11 PM
"I am afraid that the stuff that Amiga wanted them to sue about is taken care of by the MOS team. Maybe there is still some left that is illegal or is sueable but I am afraid this will be a case that drags on forever in court. And that will do no good."

well i  dont give a damn the fact if they did take stuff out to stay legal that means they are untrust worthy in the first place with all the crap with it was all coded safe from the start claims.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: xeron on August 07, 2002, 03:45:26 PM
Hey guys! No amount of conjecture and arguing here will make the slightest bit of difference to the outcome. Drink a beer, relax, sit tight and wait.

Theres nothing you can do!
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Coder on August 07, 2002, 03:51:40 PM
@Alkemyst

Quote
well i dont give a damn the fact if they did take stuff out to stay legal that means they are untrust worthy in the first place with all the crap with it was all coded safe from the start claims.


I feel the same. But I am a bit sad about the fact that it has to come to a lawsuit. All this legal crap. I mean look at Amithlon 2, delayed because of legall stuff. GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Coder
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Alkemyst on August 07, 2002, 03:56:53 PM
I feel the same. But I am a bit sad about the fact that it has to come to a lawsuit. All this legal crap. I mean look at Amithlon 2, delayed because of legall stuff. GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
yeah that was unexpected :(.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Hammer on August 07, 2002, 07:07:13 PM
I don’t think MorphOS camp has the financial muscle to match Gateway Inc...
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Hammer on August 07, 2002, 07:53:42 PM
@Michal
Quote
But you should stop doing this.. Why cant Amiga go for the future, show that you are strong?
 I know this is a marked strategy to somewhat push MorphOS out. Its like Lindows for the PC marked. Its a competitor to Windows, but also RUN's Windows programs.

Win32 cloners wouldn’t worry being sue by MS, IF they clean code’s their OS.

Win32 cloners would be in trouble, IF they copied any MS code.  

“Lindows” naming battle is a different issue.

Quote

You should start to think like an Amiga user Bill.
?

This would be subjective assumption regarding to being an “Amiga user".

Quote

Amiga INC. writes:
We are not afraid of it. Our only issue is that it is has been created using illegally derived material that belongs to Amiga. If they had clean room developed it, there would be no issue.

If you notice the earlier statements, Amiga Inc has no problems with "clean room developed" code.

Quote

 If you have full believe in your work, then drop the case and go further.

Is that a good excuse for committing illegal acts (POV of Amiga Inc)?

Quote

We all know you should have the right to use Amiga, but MorphOS aint using Amigas name. I want both products on the marked, it will be a colourfull marked
?

A market that will result in Beta vs VHS  like war will not help the consumer in the long term.

Two path
1. AmigaOS 4.x path for long term view.
VS
2. MorphOS path for long term view.

Note that SUN doesn’t let any one deviate from their Java standard.   MS has paid a the price for thier recalcitrant actions.

Quote

and thats what we want, not another Commodore
 

I don't think Commodore's deployment model equals MS's style deployment model
 i.e.
1. With CBM, 1 OS Company(i.e. CBM) = 1 hardware vendor(i.e. CBM). Apple also uses this deployment model.
2. With Amiga Inc,1 OS Company(i.e. AInc) = multiple hardware vendor, due Alnc's multi-licensing regime.

Quote

keeping all secret and kinda forget what the userbase want.

This would be subjective assumption in regards to what user base wants.  

All companies has their trade secrets and know how. Companies invest in R&D to develop trade secrets and know how.

Being labelled a monopoly by Justice Department invokes a different sets of laws.

I wouldn’t be surprise if stupid US Justice Department and (the nine anti-MS US states) destroys their own US company’s dominance in the world market due to their narrow scope and pays the price for it.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Hammer on August 07, 2002, 08:18:32 PM
Quote
It's OUR (the users) market, and NOT AInc, Eyetechs, Hyperion or bPlan's market !! They all can deliever products to OUR market, but the don't own us, and we can decide ourself what we buy.


Don’t you realise if there are two identical products that do same thing yet with enough differences, the market may end up like  OS/2Warp** vs Win95** (or Beta Max VS VHS) wars?

**The battle of succession for Win16 standard. Both has their own different 32bit API path.
 
The consumer will lose in the long run (for OS/2Warp users in that case).

Personally, I Iike SUN’s model in regards to controling thier standard and sharing their standard with others.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: AmiGR on August 07, 2002, 08:28:28 PM
Gateway doesn't give a #### about Amiga. They won't defend the name. It's Thendic/bPlan vs
Amiga Inc.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Hammer on August 07, 2002, 08:39:11 PM
Quote
4. Reverse engineering a product to make a compatible one IS legal to some extent.

Where does it state this?

Quote
2. Changing a program by 25% makes it eligible for a new copywrite... that doesn't refer to an individual subroutine but the work as a whole.

Depending on work's copyright conditions, “derive works” may be considered illegal by the copyright holder.

Just look in your Quake's license and copyright text file.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Hammer on August 07, 2002, 08:42:43 PM
Quote
Gateway doesn't give a #### about Amiga.

Do we know their intent?

Quote

They won't defend the name.

Do we know their intent?

Re-read my post carefully, I have not anything in regards to "defending".

Any inference made is due to your thinking...
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: bhoggett on August 07, 2002, 08:56:05 PM
Quote
Wrong. A user (buyer) may be in the market, but that market does not belong to him. Any more than the shop you go into to buy sweeties belongs to you.

I disagree with that analogy as well as Kronos' statement. The users don't own the market, they are the market. No one owns the market. Not the users, not the developers, not the IP and trademark owners, no one.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Kronos on August 07, 2002, 09:17:46 PM
Quote
I disagree with that analogy as well as Kronos' statement. The users don't own the market, they are the market.


O.k. your english is better than mine ;-)

The point is that WE decide, what we buy, and that is what
defines a market. If AInc or Thendic want to be a part of
that market they just have to deliever what WE want.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: whabang on August 07, 2002, 09:18:47 PM
Quote
Gateway doesn't give a #### about Amiga.


No, but if they c an earn a few bucks from sueing BPlan, then?
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Herewegoagain on August 08, 2002, 12:00:52 AM
Quote
Poster: whabang Date: 2002/8/7 14:18:47

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gateway doesn't give a #### about Amiga.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No, but if they c an earn a few bucks from sueing BPlan, then?



It's not even that.  If it involves Gateways patents, you better believe they will certainly defend it regardless the name.  Patents are not shoved aside because of the name involved.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Kronos on August 08, 2002, 12:33:50 AM
Patents ?

AFAIK is "right-mouse-pop-up-menu" the only AmigaOS-patent and that won't
be used in MOS_1.0 (don't ask me how menus will work).

Even if SW-patents don't count in europe (atleast a bit of common sense).
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Hammer on August 08, 2002, 06:10:00 AM
Quote
The point is that WE decide, what we buy, and that is what

What you want may not reflect what the market wants.
Title: Re: Amitopia interview Amiga Inc regarding MorphOS
Post by: Hammer on August 08, 2002, 06:16:20 AM
Quote
AFAIK is "right-mouse-pop-up-menu" the only AmigaOS-patent and that won't

I don’t think that would be the issue.

Note that MS's WinXP uses the right button for their "context sensitive" popup menu.