Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => General Internet News => Topic started by: SlimJim on May 21, 2002, 06:46:11 AM
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Fleecy Moss, CTO of Amiga Inc, appeared on ANN (http://ann.lu) to dispell some of the rumours that have been circulating about the relations between AInc and BPlan.
Snippets taken from several posts in the 300+ thread titled the next ppc amiga (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1021817411&category=news&332).
"For AmigaOS4, Amiga said that it will welcome ANY and ALL hardware companies which develop hardware. We have spent many hours of email with representatives of bPlan and in all of them, our line has been consistent.
- We will be very happy to provide bPlan with an OS4 licence, and to have OS4 running on the Pegasos
- Amiga compatability within MorphOS comes from illegally obtained source tapes and we will use all legal process to prevent it from entering the market.
It is not Amiga Inc preventing AmigaOS4 from running on the Pegasos. As far as Amiga Inc is concerned, we consider the two issues mentioned above as being completely separate."
[...]
"Most of you (with an interest in the truth anyway) have already asked the obvious question. What would Amiga Inc gain from NOT allowing OS4 to run on the Pegasos. Answer - absolutely nothing.
The licence terms for OS4 are the same for bPlan as for Eyetech and anyone else who wishes to sell an Amiga product that runs OS4. It is a typical OEM licence, and presents a level playing field, for producers, for distributors and for customers. You will find NO exclusive deals done for any product that carries the Amiga seal of approval, and no favouritism played to any company or individual.
Any company that says that they approached us and we rejected them is lying. They may not have liked certain elements of the OEM deal, but it is the same deal as everyone else is offered."
[...]
"Anything to do with MorphOS and its 'amiga compatability' will be decided, so it seems, in the courts."
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Is this a statement from "Real" Fleecy Moss or a hoax?
I hope Amiga Inc or its lawyers will release formal statement about this matter. The statement should be put on their website.
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Does Mr Fleecy Moss post the message from UK; not USA?
Another comment from the same thread:
===================================
"Anyone checked if this Fleecy Moss is the real one from Amiga Inc or a fake one (a simple troll), I asked this because I've just made a traceroute and it seems that is IP address is:
webcacheH11a.cache.pol.co.uk
I'm not an expert of Amiga Inc locations, but I thought Fleecy should type from somewhere in the U.S.A.
Another strange fact is that he replied the first time at about 10AM GMT (UK) that it's something like 4AM in the east cost.(USA) (Approx. 01.00 AM in Snoqualmie; WA; USA).
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He's from the UK. Last he mentioned his work visa ran out last year and had to wait til he could (eligible) for a new one. He as been in the US this year, most likely on a travel visa. Which means he works from home in the UK.
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Real or Hoax, I don't know. There is no way to verify anyones ID on ANN. I do know that those are basically statements that Amiga, Inc. has made before.
They will not release a formal statement on that issue and will not be mentioned on their website. The website is not the place for such matters. They will only make a statement when the lawyers deem it necessary. The lawyers will only make a legal move if the MorphOS Group go forward with their plans to sell retail copies.
These are my opinions and represent my knowledge on this issue.
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>illegally obtained source tapes
Do Morph OS team "Steal' the tape /disk that contain OS 3.X source code? How this happen? Do Morph OS "reverse engineer" OS 3.X? Do they put a spy / mole inside Amiga Inc?
In other companies; source codes are closely guarded secret; (except Linux / open source). The source code are the "crown jewels" / main IP of the company. What is the security measures against "Industrial spy" inside Amiga Inc?
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Do Morph OS team "Steal' the tape /disk that contain OS 3.X source code? How this happen? Do Morph OS "reverse engineer" OS 3.X? Do they put a spy / mole inside Amiga Inc?
It doesn't really matter, the fact is that AOS source code is copyrighted and any use or misuse of it by third parties not allowed to do so is not legal.
Morphos is bad and nobody needs it if amigaos comes out in time
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Its a good chance the MOS team has used the OS3.x sources as they have been "public" since they got "released" in the crack community back in 1997.
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Oh boy! I'm affraid to see the fight on ANN now!
:-o
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'scuse my igorance but what does this all round up to, does this mean that MOS is illegal and the guys behind it will be taken to court? Does this mean that OS4 will be running on the Pegasos
Thankz
D@n
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Hey please someone reply.
I am dying with susspense here!!!!
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Don't go, It's pretty bad...
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MOS is ilegal in some people's eyes and it might be. Yes, It has been implied that if the MOS Group try to distribute MOS in any way they will be taken to court. Then the legality of MOS will be settled.
OS4 running on the Pegasos, that depends on bPlan or anyone that licenses the use of the Pegasos for a third party product.
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does this mean that MOS is illegal and the guys behind it will be taken to court?
Yes, that appears to be Amiga Inc's official position.
Does this mean that OS4 will be running on the Pegasos
Not likely. bPlan is MOS all the way.
:-x
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Check the ANN archives. Ralph has mentioned previously that he has seen the Amiga OS source code in part or in full. I'm not sure what the circumstances of his viewing was. I only know I saw it on ANN in one of his comments some time ago. I'm not sure how far back the archives go, but I think it was about 1.5 to 2.5 years ago. It stands out in my memory as he mentioned that he wasn't suppost to see/have access to it, but was shown it by someone or company in Germany that did have access to it.
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But if MOS is not delivered with the Pegasos, what is the use of the machine then?
Coder
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I've only visited the ANN site once, (prompted by this thread) but I gather that what it amounts to is that the legality of MorphOS is in dispute. Whether it was created with reverse engineering, stolen source code, or a mixture of both seems to be the subject of contention.
Since very few people have any first-hand knowlege of the matter, it looks as if this will be a matter for the courts to settle, if the dispute gets that far.
As for the Pegasos boards running AmigaOS4, I understand that OS4 would require proprietary silicon, and that the proprietary silicon would require a license from Amiga, which license Amiga would issue if bPlan agreed to Amiga's terms. I suspect Amiga's terms involve money, and a degree of control regarding quality standards and such. Possibly more money, control, or both than bPlan likes.
Beyond that, I don't know. (And from the tone at ANN, I am one of the few who admits it.)
;-) That's my take. Your mileage may vary...
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I don't get it, I seem to remember that that dork of a ceo of Merlancia, once promised the Amiga cmuunity a pegasos based AmigaOne. Now, I don't know him, but I saw him in pictures and videos, and never wanted to believe that he was up to the task of doing something like that, and since we have no infos on that project i guess i was right. On the other hand it shows that Pegasos doesn't care, somebody could buy boards from pegasos and resell them under amigaone specifications.
If I would have more time and money, I guess I would try to cut a deal with them. Hope that somebody else will try to do it.
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But if MOS is not delivered with the Pegasos, what is the use of the machine then?
Linux? But IMO there are already loadsa Linux boxes about already so there would be no point in creatinf a whole computer just to run linux
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Linux? But IMO there are already loadsa Linux boxes about already so there would be no point in creatinf a whole computer just to run linux
That is what I mean. For some Linux freaks out there it might be great but for me not. But I am sure it will come out with MorphOS anyway.
Coder
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But I am sure it will come out with MorphOS anyway.
But wouldn't bPlan be breaking the law if MOS was illegal, and wouldn't they get sued?
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But wouldn't bPlan be breaking the law if MOS was illegal, and wouldn't they get sued?
They would if someone sues them. But if it gets to court it could drag on for a long time. I do not hope they will get sued.
Coder
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Linux.
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Amiga compatability within MorphOS comes from illegally obtained source tapes and we will use all legal process to prevent it from entering the market.
This is old news.
I seem to recall phase 5 showing off the OS' source code to several developers back in the days when they had a license to make a PPC version. Ralph Schmidt was one of those developers.
So yes, he could have stolen the source code, or he could have easily backwards engineered the OS so that he can get MorphOS up and going. The means were at his disposal.
But the question is: Did he do it? I don't know.
Personally, I'm stuck in a catch 22. On one hand, I hope that Ralph is innocent, and on the other hand, I hope MorphOS never arrives. I can't have one without the other.
AmiGod
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Perhaps I should have left out the MOS part of
Fleecys message, as that wasn't the main point of his
post, and it deviates from the real issue. The reason
Fleecy posted this was to make clear that AInc have
no problems with BPlan:s Pegasos and naturally want
AOS4 to run on it.
This is the 'OFFICIAL AInc position regarding Pegasos'
people! As official as it will ever be anyways. That's the
big news, not the MOS legality issues (which we have known
and discussed to death quite some time already).
And no, there is no reason why they should post this
on their website.
.
SlimJim
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No
Lamers and flamers will have their way. If you had edited it someone would have followed up with the post in full and slammed you for being biased.
Shawn would then have posted about it being a Mac, Kronos about COS4, Alkis about Pegasos not being MorphOS and Smithy doing his usual "Oh Im so dissapointed in 1 in 10 of your posts" to either DaveW or yourself.
Usual suspects, usual FUD, usual politics, usual pricks going off half cocked.
Again.