Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: bhoggett on September 25, 2003, 09:57:49 PM
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It seems that as of today Amiga Inc's lawyers have withdrawn their services as counsel in the case against Thendic/Genesi.
While there can be numerous explanations for such a turn of events, it does mean that unless Amiga Inc replace them quickly they may be forced to default on the case.
It sure doesn't look like a good thing to happen at this stage, from Amiga Inc.'s point of view.
(The relevant documents are available on Rich Woods' page, but I won't link to it as it contains material I do not believe should be made public. The documents are also available direct from the court clerk, of course)
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Having just read the documents, then called Washington State to confirm their legitimacy, let's simply say that this is "interesting" to say the least.
Be careful here however because while the documents state clearly that both Shukis and the firm representing Amiga Inc have requested to withdraw as council, it does not say why.
There are several possibilities including:
- a lack of payment (most likely)
- getting fed up with the silly tactics involved by McEwen (as shown in the deposition) (second most likely)
- a possible disclosure of facts which have come to light creating some sort of conflict which has not been disclosed.
- last but not least, personal issues for the attorneys involved
Unfortunately this does NOT automatically mean that Amiga will have to default on this case. *IF* they can find someone stupid enough to take the case for no money, chances are that Judge Lasnik will grant a delay in order for the new attorneys to catch up and proceed. That *is unless* the Judge decides to accept the multiple motions for sanction.
// FarQ
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@FarQuad
I agree, which is why I said there could be a number of explanations.
However, whatever the reason, the timing could hardly be much worse.
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time passes and when it looks bright all falls twice as hard in the ground.... is amiga doomed ?
i am getting sick of this i need some postive news soon...
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Hmmm... wonder if the judge will see this as a "stunt" in light of prior events.
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The Judge more than likely held a conference with the attorneys involved to discuss the exact reason. The reason does not have to be disclosed in court case documentation.
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I don't know... I read into it wondering if it was some sort of delay tactic myself, but it's not without risk. (Unless AI has already a replacement set up and will request a delay.)
I wonder how long will it take for the conspiracy theorists to say that the lawyers were "bribbed" to drop the case. :-? Oops, I guess I shouldn't give anyone any ideas. :-P
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Just one more thing: for those confused by the withdrawal document, no confirmation is yet available AFAIK that the judge has GRANTED the withdrawal request. (the document is not signed)
Of course, it's hard to see why the judge would reject the request though.
This, and the fact that I was unwilling to supply a direct link, is why I did not post this as "news".
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lempkee wrote:
time passes and when it looks bright all falls twice as hard in the ground.... is amiga doomed ?
i am getting sick of this i need some postive news soon...
Amiga gets money if they LOSE, I have no IDEA why they are fighting this battle, it's in their OWN interests, that's why they made the deal in the first place.
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Ah well. somehow I can't belive those licensing fees comign from
Genesi would save Ainc anynore. But, if those help people to get their
years delayed salaries.. it's not bad..
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It seems that as of today Amiga Inc's lawyers have withdrawn their services as counsel in the case against Thendic/Genesi.
Where did you hear/read this, out of interest?
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@TBone,
Amiga gets money if they LOSE, I have no IDEA why they are fighting this battle, it's in their OWN interests, that's why they made the deal in the first place.
Hi, I've been away for a while so I'm trying to catch up with all the info. Can you explain to me the above? How exactly will they make money?
Cheers,
SidMan.
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Ok, I think JoannaK answered my question there.
((Grumble), I'm a bit out of touch with everything at the moment.)
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@mikeymike
The news is on ANN and MooBunny, including the link. Like I said, the source is the same as for all the rest of the court documents.
I did read the documents before posting, in case you were wondering. I did not check with the court personally, nor will I do so in the future, as I don't have enough personal interest invested to justify the expense.
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SidMan wrote:
@TBone,
Amiga gets money if they LOSE, I have no IDEA why they are fighting this battle, it's in their OWN interests, that's why they made the deal in the first place.
Hi, I've been away for a while so I'm trying to catch up with all the info. Can you explain to me the above? How exactly will they make money?
Cheers,
SidMan.
If Genesi win the case and Amiga is held to the contract, Amiga gets paid $4.50 in license fees for each of Genesi's machines sold capable of running DE. In addition, Amiga may charge Genesi for the costs involved in the port.
That's not to mention Amiga will now be exposing their DE to the ENTIRE Amiga community, not just one side of the fracture.
Amiga sees this as a loss, for "personal" reasons, but as a buisness event, it's a win.
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MikeyMike,
I've already called and verified the documents, but here are the URLs to the documents so you can read them yourself.
http://www.merlancia.us/amigabk/certservwithdraw.pdf
http://www.merlancia.us/amigabk/shukiswithdraw.pdf
http://www.merlancia.us/amigabk/withdrawcounsel1.pdf
http://www.merlancia.us/amigabk/withdrawcounsel2.pdf
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Why on earth would Genesi disgrace themselves by getting involved with criminals? it makes no sense at all.
The sooner these criminals get brought to justice the better.
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@FarQuad
Cheers. Now, why didn't I think of doing that?
:-?
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Sorry, I wasn't trying to offend. I just don't figure there's any reason to try and hide the documents, since they're even in the wide-open directory on Rich's site.
I honestly believe everyone needs to read them, and I believe even moreso that people need to get help in understanding them BEFORE rumors and fighting get out of hand (as usual). Wonder who will submit them to slashdot and OSNews this time?
// FarQ
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@FarQuad
Sorry, you didn't offend. I was chastising myself for not thinking of the obvious solution. I don't like posting a link to Rich's directory because of some of the material there, but I should have thought of posting direct links to the documents myself.
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@BHoggett,
Thanks very much for clarifying. :-)
// FarQ
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I note with interest that these files are held on Merlancia servers (a company most of us would never want to deal with).... I don't know much about this Rich Woods character except he seems to have a very personal agenda.
Ho hum, it'll all come out in the wash i'm sure.
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OT: Skyraker .. where did you get that avatar ?
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If you mean the docs provided by Rich Woods; please not that they are _not_ placed on the Merlancia domain. But merely on a domain which has the name merlancia.
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(http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Academy/3108/rizzo1.jpg)
Kees wrote:
OT: Skyraker .. where did you get that avatar ?
avatar? That's a self-portrait! :-D
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Skyraker wrote:
I note with interest that these files are held on Merlancia servers (a company most of us would never want to deal with).... I don't know much about this Rich Woods character except he seems to have a very personal agenda.
Ho hum, it'll all come out in the wash i'm sure.
Those are not Merlancia's servers. Rich Woods has registered the merlancia.us domain, presumably to annoy RC/Merlancia who, together with Amiga Inc, make up the targets of Rich's displeasure.
However, while most of us will acknowledge that Rich has his own agenda, and while at least some of us do not approve of his overall methods this does not invalidate the court ducuments he makes available. These have all been genuine so far and anyone can verify them at source.
As you say, it will all come out in the wash. Somehow I doubt it will make for pretty reading.
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They view Thendic(Genesi) as their direct competion. Would you give your product to the competion? Especially, if they believe in the Morphos/AmigaOS IP theft, they may think that DE might get stolen from them.
If one of the actions the judge chooses is to approve the sanctions put forward by Thendic/Genesi's lawyers and as such includes the mentioned handing over of a copy of the source code of DE to Genesi to port. Amiga, Inc. could loose control over DE.
What's going to happen?
Don't know. We'll have to break out the chips and dip till the next exciting episode of release documents comes out. Same Amiga Time, Same Amiga Channel.
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@Argo
If one of the actions the judge chooses is to approve the sanctions put forward by Thendic/Genesi's lawyers and as such includes the mentioned handing over of a copy of the source code of DE to Genesi to port. Amiga, Inc. could loose control over DE.
Absolutely not.
Access to source code does not mean freedom to do what they like with it. Genesi would only be entitled to use the source code to port AmigaDE to their own devices as per contract, nothing more. They would still have to abide by all the conditions and copyrights therein.
Furthermore, AmigaDE does not only contain Amiga Inc copyrighted material, but also TAO's IP. It remains to be seen if any commitment by Amiga Inc to hand over source code is binding upon TAO, no matter what the contract between Amiga and Genesi says.
No court can enforce a sanction which would be in direct violation of copyright law. Most likely, if the sanction was imposed and Amiga were found to be unable to comply with it in a legal manner, further penalties would be exacted against Amiga Inc.
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The only reason I can see whty Amiga Inc. would fight this case (since a ruling against Amiga Inc. would give them money... quite a lot of money IMHO) would be if they can't actually forefil the contract... I should come as no surprise that Amiga Inc. might still be hiding something from us....
Note: Any speculation as to what it is they can't meet on the contract?
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@Kees
I'd like to take credit for it, but I found it when doing a google image search ages ago.... and promptly nicked it.
@darth
heheh true, but the hairs grown back now.
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I think Genesi should buy Amiga Inc. That would solve the Amiga / Morph wars. I'll be putting my money on a Pegasos. If Amiga goes down again, I'll
feel sorry for A1 owners.
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Rats?
No, not yet. This time it's the sharks that leave. ;)
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I think Genesi should buy Amiga Inc. That would solve the Amiga / Morph wars. I'll be putting my money on a Pegasos.
Nitro: Come on over! You will NOT be disappointed. I was one of the soon to be A1 owners till I saw/read what the Pegasos system was about. BB&RV have created a fun community..working deals, posting whats going on, no smokescreens, no BS.
-Alex
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@TheMagicM
as a moderator i think you should not be biased
in any shape or form.
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@BADHead
He has a right to his opinion and you have a right not to listen to it.
Gawd have I mellowed.
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get on my high horse
everyone does have a right to there opinion and here is mine . When you are in a position to influence other people i think its only right not to be biased
and stick to the thread and the facts.
get off my high horse.
:-D
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@BADHead,
we are all in positions to influence people. And it is the greater responsibility of people in positions of influence to look out for other people who may be making a bad choice.
For example, if you read any computer magazine, they review products and steer people away from bad choices. They take opinions, they always have.
This idea of being neutral doesn't apply in the consumer marketplace....people are never neutral...not sure where you are coming from.
for example, in total amiga magazine, issue 14, they gave Quake II, a rating of 'top notch' meaning you can't go wrong buying that, but they said Software Tycoon was 'OK' meaning you might want to think about buying it.
They didn't go, huh, as the editor of a magazine, I cannot really give any opinion, because I might influence people.
Everyone who demands neutrality, usually just heard an opinion they didn't want to hear....but I'm taking you seriously anyway, and meticulously explaining why people are allowed to have opinions :-)
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Hmm...
I think a moderator should be unbiaised when he's actually moderating. Other then that, I don't know if he should be devoid of having his own opinion. :)
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Sorry, I should have been more detailed.
It was suppost to be in context with the Morphos/AmigaOS IP issues.
If Amgai, Inc. currently believes that Morphos is based in whole or in part somehow on AmigaOS source code, they may fear that having to turn over the sourse code for Thendic/Genesi to port (assuming they can't and are thus ordered by the judge to do so as in the proposed sanctions) that they may loose control of DE. Not that it would be out right stolen per se.
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by sdesros on 2003/9/26 13:51:13
I think a moderator should be unbiaised when he's actually moderating. Other then that, I don't know if he should be devoid of having his own opinion. :)
I agree, there is no reason why a moderator can not give his views in a thread if he is not actively moderating within that thread. It would make a job of moderator pretty boring if they couldn't do something they evidently like to do in the first place, communicate their thoughts to others.
Dammy
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The only thing I can think of is that, there is no DE or at least not in useable form. We won't know until it's all over, so we wait and speculate.
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@MarkTime: Thank you. that was a good explanation! :-)
BADhead:
everyone does have a right to there opinion and here is mine . When you are in a position to influence other people i think its only right not to be biased and stick to the thread and the facts.
Are you so easily influenced that you just decided to buy a Pegasos system? If so, great, I shall stop being a moderator and become a full time salesman.
I thought 'something else' in the title meant, something different regarding a PPC solution.
I'm sorry but I'm not going to keep my mouth shut when it comes to a PPC solution. I was TIRED of being JACKED AROUND these years when it came to new owners of the Amiga, promises of a new system etc. I turned up my nose towards Genesi/BBRV and thought Pegasos was just junk, it wasnt a REAL Amiga. Until reality set in, I read the reviews by MagneticSystems and saw the next best thing.
You have two choices...you can take the BLUE pill and you can keep living in the dream world you now live in..or take the RED pill and I will show you the truth. ($10 virtual dollars to who guesses what movie this is from.....)
I'm just stating opinion, take it for what its worth. :-)
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TheMagicM
Well.. for each and every person it comes time when one has to make
choises of his/her own. for some.. this is the time.
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TheMagicM,
The Matrix
Blitter
ps. You better not skip on the $10 virtual bucks you now owe me. :-P
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@Farquad .... I like the way you think ... from now on I'll just refer those evil posts at me to you,..... you explain very well
ritty :-D
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Blitter: LOL. As long as you dont charge interest we'll be a-ok! :-D
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Argo wrote:
The only thing I can think of is that, there is no DE or at least not in useable form.
I was ready Bill McEwans depostion the other night, and one bit jumped out at me..( This is in regards to DE and Intent)
" At one time we had 16 chip sets that we support. I believe we are down to ten now. It`s going to get whittled down again"
I know that this is down to TAO and not Amiga Inc, but how can they have "Amiga Anywhere" when the range of supported hardware is getting smaller by the minute?
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Actually, that's not such a huge deal. The cell-phone and handheld markets are starting to standardize on very few chips. This makes sense because it's easier to obtain good tools, and you can reasonably expect newly-hired engineers to know the chip your particular widget is using.
As long as Intent supports XScale (for high end Palms and PocketPCs) and Dragonball (for low end cellphones), they're probably OK. If they drop support for those, then they might as well pack up and go home...
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the documents are listed under the amigabk
directory.. Amiga BK? That sounds like
bankruptcy, not copyright lawsuits against genesi.
Did I miss something here? (I probably did, so dont flame me)
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FarQuad you summed it up very well before ( cant seem to find where it was you posted this) something like.
'Amiga Inc's continued existance, like a radiated ####roach is Bill McEwans way of saying screw you to the amiga community' (not an exact quote, but a close enough paraphrase I think)
I think thats totally correct, I mean Amiga GAINS from selling DE right?, why are they so against porting it to Pegasos? IIRC bbrv even said that Thendic/Genesi where doing the porting and it wouldnt even cost AI any money. It looks to me to be more of a personal vendetta then anything else. All business logic says they should do it apperantly.
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@meerschaum
I think thats totally correct, I mean Amiga GAINS from selling DE right?, why are they so against porting it to Pegasos? IIRC bbrv even said that Thendic/Genesi where doing the porting and it wouldnt even cost AI any money. It looks to me to be more of a personal vendetta then anything else. All business logic says they should do it apperantly.
Well, we don't have all the details. Business logic based on what we are aware of suggests they would benefit from letting Genesi port it, but it is entirely possible that they can't do it and stay legal. Remember, letting Genesi port it involves handing them the ENTIRE source code, including that which is under TAO's copyright. Are they really entitled to do this without TAO having any say in it?
It could be that Amiga find themselves in a situation where they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Not that I sympathise, since it's a situation of their own making.
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>Doobrey: Down from 16 to 10 chip sets.
Hello
What/where is the source of this statement?
AFAIK it is IMPOSSIBLE to scale down because
the VP2 code is NOT changed with the new release
of INTENT2. Therefore CPU supported by
INTENT1 will be supported by INTENT2.
The only CPU dropped on transition from VP1
(old TAOS) to INTENT is TRANSPUTER (T4, T8, T9),
because ST Micro had discontinued the products.
Where is the latest official statement from
Mr Bill McEwen about the chipset/CPU?
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bhogget I think you make some good points, but if this is the case... whats to lose from telling us that? I mean what do they lose if they come out and say these 'details' ?... given their track record I cant trust them.
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@meerschaum
whats to lose from telling us that?
Face.
It would be the equivalent of saying "we're a bunch of morons and we signed contracts that had clauses we could never honour".
As long as they think they might not lose the case, they will think they don't have to make any admissions which would damage them further. Bear in mind that if they lose the case, and cannot comply with sanctions because they would be breaching copyright, then they will leave themselves open to further punishment.
Like I said, they could well be in a no win situation, no matter what they do.
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asian1 wrote:
>Doobrey: Down from 16 to 10 chip sets.
Hello
What/where is the source of this statement?
From a scanned document here (http://www.merlancia.us/amigabk/dechughessanctions.pdf) at Rich Woods 'Merlancia' site.
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bhogget you make some very good points, but to me I dont even care... to me it looks like its just more 'tight lip, sinking ship' from Amiga.inc... we've seen this for years.
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lawers withdraw at amigas' request? sounds like their getting more qualified lawers that can understand this type of case...? may be well thought out.
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No, Amiga's lawyers (or may I say, the whole law firm) applied to withdrew from the case, leaving
Amiga Inc undefended till they find another lawyer.
It's most probably cause AInc is out of money, and
I seriously doubt that anyone will take that case
due to that fact. 100$ (according to McEwen himself)
are not enough to hire a lawyer.
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thought that deal with "MS" had the money comming in ,some months back. looks like the curse is on amiga again, guess Bill McEwen should have cut back on them fancy long limos and kept driving the old truck untill amiga inc., was kicking..? :-o
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what does one say about all this if its true but,(song) "thanks for the memories"
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unclewilli-amigalover wrote:
what does one say about all this if its true but,(song) "thanks for the memories"
How 'bout
"Thanks for nothing, you bastards"? :-(
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bhoggett wrote:
@meerschaum
I think thats totally correct, I mean Amiga GAINS from selling DE right?, why are they so against porting it to Pegasos? IIRC bbrv even said that Thendic/Genesi where doing the porting and it wouldnt even cost AI any money. It looks to me to be more of a personal vendetta then anything else. All business logic says they should do it apperantly.
Well, we don't have all the details. Business logic based on what we are aware of suggests they would benefit from letting Genesi port it, but it is entirely possible that they can't do it and stay legal. Remember, letting Genesi port it involves handing them the ENTIRE source code, including that which is under TAO's copyright. Are they really entitled to do this without TAO having any say in it?
It could be that Amiga find themselves in a situation where they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Not that I sympathise, since it's a situation of their own making.
IF Amiga Inc doesn’t have the authority to port Tao’s IP property then the contract between AmigaInc & Thendic wouldn't be a valid one.
In Australian context, it’s Powel vs Lee(1908) case(i.e. having the capacity or the authorisation to make the contract on behalf of the relevant entities). I’m not familiar with the US version in relation to that precedent.
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Hammer: Well. If they didn't have right to port it why did they sing the deal in first place. Besides they have been doing so (or someone has?) since there are Amiga-DE players for various pocker-PC thingies (and Linux + Windowse).
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Paul_Gadd wrote:
Why on earth would Genesi disgrace themselves by getting involved with criminals? it makes no sense at all.
The sooner these criminals get brought to justice the better.
I recall the case between Thendic VS Amiga Inc is a civil case not criminal case
(assuming IF Aussie/UK legal terminology is similar to the US legal terminology).
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JoannaK wrote:
Hammer: Well. If they didn't have right to port it why did they sing the deal in first place. Besides they have been doing so (or someone has?) since there are Amiga-DE players for various pocker-PC thingies (and Linux + Windowse).
Well, those were done by in-house staff or people working as 3rd party contractors. The point being the ports were done on Amiga Inc's behalf by people appointed by Amiga Inc. In fact, you need to remember that the "ports" are merely built on a pre-supplied TAO base, so they're not complete ports.
What Genesi want as a sanction is something else entirely. They want TAO's IP to do the port for themselves.
As for why Amiga Inc signed the contract in the first place, bear in mind that the contract was initially intended for a WindowsCE device, not the Pegasos and MorphOS. Genesi's case is based on the failure of Amiga Inc to ensure that the contract they signed was watertight, not on Amiga Inc promising to do a MorphOS port then going back on that promise.
It is entirely possible - indeed likely - that it would be illegal for Amiga Inc to comply with the requested sanction. I really don't expect Genesi to get the TAO source code even if they do win the case, not without making a separate deal with TAO. If they win, the most likely outcome will be that Amiga Inc will fail to comply and Genesi will have another case against them, or the court may impose further sanctions.
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JoannaK wrote:
Hammer: Well. If they didn't have right to port it why did they sing the deal in first place.
Depends on the interpretation of the said contract. (It’s up to the courts to decide that issue). Did anyone disclose the contract between Thendic and AmigaInc for the public consumption?
Some contracts are classified as a voidable contract i.e. a contract with flaws/defect (e.g. vague or lose wordings).
Besides they have been doing so (or someone has?) since there are Amiga-DE players for various pocker-PC thingies (and Linux + Windowse).
I recall, Amiga_Inc’s IP is just some middleware/branding added on top Tao’s Intent technology.
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AmiGR wrote:
No, Amiga's lawyers (or may I say, the whole law firm) applied to withdrew from the case, leaving
Amiga Inc undefended till they find another lawyer.
It's most probably cause AInc is out of money, and
I seriously doubt that anyone will take that case
due to that fact. 100$ (according to McEwen himself)
are not enough to hire a lawyer.
It could be use for delaying tactics i.e. draw the battle out on the cheap.
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why are they so against porting it to Pegasos?
Consequence of the legal win (for Thendic/Genesi group) may give Thendic/Genesi the legal use of Amiga branding (via AmigaDE route**) on MorphOS/Pegy platform. This may give some legitimacy (for their Q/BOX-ABOX marketing purposes) in regards to 68K Amiga brand secession.
**Going via AmigaDE route for obtaining the Amiga brand will bypass the AmigaOne and AmigaOS 3.X/4.0 licensing schemes. Such an action nullifies the brand recognition of AmigaOne/AmigaOS 4.0 advantage.
What would be the consequence IF IBM’s OS/2 Warp has the legal use of MS Windows branding? For example, “MS Windows Warp 4.0” Vs MS Windows NT 4.0/MS Windows 95.
Even in Linux world, branded Linux distros (e.g. Red Hat or SUSE (with IBM)) does make a difference in obtaining a government/big business contracts.
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well mdma, i have gotton the benefit of os3.9 i've been vere happy with that, so amiga has achived a few good things. :-)
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by Hammer on 2003/9/28 21:39:45
It could be use for delaying tactics i.e. draw the battle out on the cheap.
That was the first thing to pop into my mind when I read about the law firm dumping Amiga Inc. If it is that, it's way too late as the judge is about to rule on the sanctions and having or not having counsel won't impact on that since they had counsel submit their replies already. If the judge pulls the plug, I could see him delaying it's execution till Amiga Inc has time to find new counsel and file an appeal. I just don't see Amiga Inc being able to secure another counsel without having some fresh cash to offer.
Who's going to take them when they have just stiffed their last counsel?
Dammy
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by unclewilli-amigalover on 2003/9/28 23:09:00
well mdma, i have gotton the benefit of os3.9 i've been vere happy with that, so amiga has achived a few good things.
Bad news, that was Hack & Patch's release, not Amiga Incs. Worse yet, Amiga Inc never even saw a dime off it because of a despute over WB 3.5 with H&P. The worst thing about WB 3.9, it had illegally copied code in it.
Dammy
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- trolling: edited by mikeymike... better late than never...
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Hammer: IIRC it's been available at somewere. And if notwere else, I'm
sure a verified copy must be part of court documents for this case.
Wihtout it there would be not much point on having a case anyhow.
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This thread is too bizarre, like right out of Monte Python!
"Here! AInc's lawyers have quit. Must nothave paid them!"
"Wow! That means BB/RV were right all along! AInc is guilty of not porting it's software to its competitors!"
"But that's only because TAO won't let them! It's a violation of their license!"
"Their screwy lawyers created faulty contracts for Genesi to sign! I'm glad AInc fired them. Lawyers suck."
"But they work for AInc, and AInc sucks, too!"
"And it was reported on a Merlancia site. Didn't they used to suck, too?"
"Naw, this is Wood's Merlancia sight. He's a lunatic stalker and isn't totally rational, but he's funny, so we like him."
Wow! Unsupported supposition has been used as the basis for arguement so often in this thread, it's impossible to sort out the truth from the hoese-poop any more. Yeah, AInc's layers apparantly asked to be relieved, with no cause stated. Anythink else said here (including this bit) is a waste of bandwidth. :whack:
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- troll related: edited by mikeymike
Paul_Gadd: pmail waiting for you.
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- just clearing up evidence that any trolling took place in the first place... troll, what troll? : edited by mikeymike -
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- troll related quote removed by mikeymike -
no...is that the best YOU can do... make fun of a guys handle?...why is that? because you cant argue the points he makes?... about Amiga.inc? your fan company?
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- troll quotes removed by mikeymike -
I don't get it :-?
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I've been following this thread and it's been surprisingly civilised :-o
IIRC Bill Buck has admitted (on ANN I think) that this is nothing more than a nusance suit. It's designed to kick Amiga while it's down. Whether Bill Buck wants to just keep them on the floor a bit longer or to deliver the final blow is uncertain.
Despite everyone at Genesi/Phoenix saying otherwise, they are despirate to get thier mits on the Amiga brand. TBH though I'm not sure it'll do them a whole load of good, it's not going to give them the kind of strong brand identity that it would of done 8, 5 or even 3 years ago. There is also the problem that the name has been tarnished by the current Amiga Inc. If their intentions are to capture the whole market by having "the name", then that won't work either, because their employees and fanboys (not talking regular users, but the MOS equivalent of MikeB) have pissed off to many people, and also there are those of us that prefer AOS4 simply because it's closer to what we want than MOS is.
I think the whole situation is horribly screwed up, and that Amiga and Genesi have ruined the Amiga community. It never had to be, but egos were put before business, technology and community.
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- troll quotes/related-comments removed by mikeymike -
@Matt
That's probably because you are more mature than me ;-)
That's the last I'm saying on this business, I don't want to totally ruin what is otherwise a good thread.
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crap! this just seems to be getting worse and worse.
Duuude! i shoulda bought a ------well another computer, if i'd never used an amiga , i would not have loved an amiga.
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uncharted wrote:
If their intentions are to capture the whole market by having "the name", then that won't work either, because their employees and fanboys (not talking regular users, but the MOS equivalent of MikeB) have pissed off to many people, and also there are those of us that prefer AOS4 simply because it's closer to what we want than MOS is.
But if Genesi owned the Amiga brand, at least to the extent that Amiga, Inc. does now (not forgetting Gateway's patents) surely we'd be able to have OS4 for the Pegasos? So we'd have the choice, plus cheaper hardware to run it on. Sounds good to me...
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That's probably because you are more mature than me ;-)
I doubt that.. I'm just slow :-(
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that_punk_guy wrote:
uncharted wrote:
If their intentions are to capture the whole market by having "the name", then that won't work either, because their employees and fanboys (not talking regular users, but the MOS equivalent of MikeB) have pissed off to many people, and also there are those of us that prefer AOS4 simply because it's closer to what we want than MOS is.
But if Genesi owned the Amiga brand, at least to the extent that Amiga, Inc. does now (not forgetting Gateway's patents) surely we'd be able to have OS4 for the Pegasos? So we'd have the choice, plus cheaper hardware to run it on. Sounds good to me...
IF Genesi bought the Amiga Trade Marks, the PegasOS would already be running AmigaOs... it's the AmigaONE that would have to wait a bit before it could run AmigaOS...
Think about it ;-)
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:lol: Okay, I mean AmigaOS 4 as we know it now ;-)
-
I've been following this thread and it's been surprisingly civilised
:lol:
I think I'd better keep an eye on this thread :-)
-
Bobsonsirjonny wrote:
- trolling: edited by mikeymike... better late than never...
Trolling by Bobsonsirjohnny? :-o
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Trolling by Bobsonsirjohnny?
And a pretty nasty personal insult, which was totally uncalled for.
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redrumloa wrote:
Bobsonsirjonny wrote:
- trolling: edited by mikeymike... better late than never...
Trolling by Bobsonsirjohnny? :-o
Must have been sirjohnny :-P
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uncharted : IIRC Bill Buck has admitted (on ANN I think) that this is nothing more than a nusance suit.
Has he... I seem to have missed that. I've never heard him talk about it that way in all our hours on the phone, or in hundreds of emails.
Despite everyone at Genesi/Phoenix saying otherwise, they are despirate to get thier mits on the Amiga brand.
Don't drag Phoenix into this. You seem to be very comfortable making statements and assumptions that appear to be meant to support antagonism - like that "It's designed to kick Amiga while it's down" ... and it's rarely ever that simple.
Phoenix does not give a crap about the Amiga name, collectively - or individually, it seems. On the basis of posts on Phoenix lists, most people could barely care less about having the Amiga name, never talking about it, never mentioning it. The few who have ever even brought the subject up seem to think the name has been tainted, perhaps irretrievably. But the general tenor is that we just don't care - we have better things to talk about and care about.
I'll also say that personally I do not care about the Amiga name. I never did. Even before the current Amiga Inc got a hold of it. I like the experiences the original Amiga has made possible, and I like many things about the way the Amiga OS has performed when compared to other OSes of same historical period, and continuance and improvement of that type of OS experience is something I have cared about.
And I like many of the developers and have felt it was a shame they have been neglected during Gateway days, and seen what little market there has been erode further. Thus my involvement, thus Phoenix.
I still think the Name is largely immaterial. And just as I said during the final days of Gatemiga when Phoenix was formed, those who think the Name matters more than the possibility of increased opportunities for developers and ultimately users - well, they are often a burden that I do not especially see much actual value in. Fanaticism and twisted political/cultural correctness has done much to destroy opportunities and the value of the brand.
Note: I am NOT against the brand, if at some point in the future it is possible for Phoenix to work with developers who work with Amiga-branded products I will treat them as I treat any other developers who show positive and constructive attitudes.
Probably the last thing I'll say in this thread: Genesi is not "despirate to get thier mits on the Amiga brand." There is no desperation involved. Genesi's main concern is to see progressive improvements come of the potential that is still to be found - if you look REALLY hard - in this community. By example in finance, partnership, sponsoring and effort, Genesi is showing more leadership than the moribund Amino/Amiga Inc promised so long ago but neglected in a hundred different ways.
Thus, Phoenix's involvement with Genesi.
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(The relevant documents are available on Rich Woods' page, but I won't link to it as it contains material I do not believe should be made public. The documents are also available direct from the court clerk, of course)
Hi bhoggett,
Thank you for the update, but until I see the real documents, straight from the court clerk's hands, I consider anything Rich Woods has to say or reveal to be a figment of his own imagination. He has absolutely no credibility in my books. Especially in this day and age where Photoshop can manipulate said documents. [This is my opinion, and not a trolling.]
That being said, how would one gain access to the real documents directly from the court clerk?
AmiGod
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@AmiGod
I don't particularly like Woods either, but so far I haven't seen any evidence of him lying or falsifying documents.
As for the court, you'll notice FarQuad checked the validity of those documents by ringing them up. I'm sure if you drop him a PM he will tell you how to do this yourself.
I'm sure all the contact information is available on the Web somewhere, but I'm not about to do the investigative work myself at this point.
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Paul_Gadd wrote:
- a troll for a troll: edited by mikeymike
Damn - I would have been interested to see what his reply was..
Anyway, my point was not to troll, but to put things in perspective. Amiga inc are only guilty of incompetence - I dont think that they are "Criminals" or intended to screw anyone over.
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meerschaum wrote:
- troll related quote removed by mikeymike -
no...is that the best YOU can do... make fun of a guys handle?...why is that? because you cant argue the points he makes?... about Amiga.inc? your fan company?
Not at all. My point is everyone is over emotive - he was calling Amiga inc criminals - yet his handles name sake had sex with children - which is a totallly abhorant, evil crime. Far worse than not sending me a T-shirt..
For the record, I was not accusing Paul_Gadd of what the real Paul Gadd did.
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by Bobsonsirjonny on 2003/9/29 14:38:25
Anyway, my point was not to troll, but to put things in perspective. Amiga inc are only guilty of incompetence - I dont think that they are "Criminals" or intended to screw anyone over.
Perhaps under UK law, but under US laws (well US Code) I have very little doubt they have not broken several laws.
Dammy
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Fair rnough - if they have broken the law, ignorance is no defence. It's the hate distributed at either side is pointless. People use these big over emotive words - when there are far worse things to get on the attack about. Really people should just wait and see - let it all unfold.
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dammy, double negative equals a positive :-)
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greenboy wrote:
uncharted : IIRC Bill Buck has admitted (on ANN I think) that this is nothing more than a nusance suit.
Has he... I seem to have missed that. I've never heard him talk about it that way in all our hours on the phone, or in hundreds of emails.
Really? Take a look at this...
The whole AmigaDE lawsuit was just a means to shut Bill McEwen up and force Amiga Inc. into a settlement that might include us obtaining the rights to the Amiga trademarks and the classic OS. Amiga Inc. had no reason to spread all the FUD they did officially about MorphOS, particularly after we tried so hard to help them in 2000 and 2001. McEwen's 1 September "we will shut you down" threat was just more talk and on about the same level as the coupon scam. We could not allow him to continue to do this and took action. It worked. He is gone.
That was taken from http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1051380286&category=news&start=51 (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1051380286&category=news&start=51) if you don't believe me.
Despite everyone at Genesi/Phoenix saying otherwise, they are despirate to get thier mits on the Amiga brand.
Don't drag Phoenix into this. You seem to be very comfortable making statements and assumptions that appear to be meant to support antagonism - like that "It's designed to kick Amiga while it's down" ... and it's rarely ever that simple.
I never dragged phoenix into working so closely with Genesi, nor did I put a gun to your head and make you go around posting with the kind of authority you do. Sometimes reading your posts is like reading a press release.
What's wrong with my statements? It's just a figure of speech for goodness' sake. Oh, yeah, and it can be that simple, if you want to hide it behind clever wording, or whatever, that's your choice, but I'm bored with the ####. I say it as I see it.
Probably the last thing I'll say in this thread: Genesi is not "despirate to get thier mits on the Amiga brand." There is no desperation involved.
more of that same posting on ANN....
Back to the lawsuit...the worst case for us would be enforcing our license agreement that would require Amiga Inc. to integrate DE for use in some way with the Pegasos which would then allow us to use the trademarks (as there are some that would prefer to call the Pegasos an Amiga). Again, no big deal...users/customers can/should have the choice to call their computer whatever they want and do whatever they want with it....;-)
And this after all those statements that they didn't want Amiga branding for MOS/Pegasos.
Genesi's main concern is to see progressive improvements come of the potential that is still to be found - if you look REALLY hard - in this community.
By example in finance, partnership, sponsoring and effort, Genesi is showing more leadership than the moribund Amino/Amiga Inc promised so long ago but neglected in a hundred different ways.
Again with the PR speak, and you wondered why I lumped you and Genesi together in the original posting. :-?
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uncharted,
As I said in my post Phoenix does not have any interest in the Amiga name. You brought Phoenix into the discussion here seeming to claim that it does. But it does not. Trying to spin that into a PR-speak connection afterwards while ignoring what I said about mine and Phoenix's lack of interest in the Name shows that when you "call it as you see it " you apparently also choose to filter out what others say if it doesn't fit what you want to see.
Another misdirection: "I never dragged phoenix into working so closely with Genesi" does not even fit the context of your orignal statement - it's purpose of making the association was to attribute something to Phoenix which simply is not true.
As far as your BBRV quote from ANN, it does not really prove what you say it proves, as I see it. The post seems to list several reasons, and other BBRV posts have also raised other reasons. Those reasons do not constitute a "nuisance suit" - unless one throws away quite a few phrases that speak of motivations as well as business and contract.
Your more personal comments about my posting style are simply irrelevant to the topic, and as in the past you seem to be rather antagonistic... If I speak with authority it is because I present my observations and experiences in my style, usually without trying to go inflammatory. That does not constitute PR, though I do try to choose my words so as not to splatter invective and hearsay into a discussion when I am at my best ; }
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@Andy
McBill started that "get legal or shut down"-BS, couldn't follow
through and now he gets what he asked for ......
THOUGH LUCK !!!
As for the "name":
I see little use for it,as Genesi allready has allthey wanted/needed from
this community (read developers and early adaptors), and those who
are left, wouldn't follow the name in that case.....
Actually those would probraly mean more trouble in such a case.
The name isn't really that valuable for marketing outside this community,
and other brands may be easier to get.
-
THOUGH LUCK !!!
Amazing how a spelling mistake can draw all attention from the original point :-)
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yet his handles name sake had sex with children - which is a totallly abhorant, evil crime. Far worse than not sending me a T-shirt..
Glitter never ever was charged,convicted of having sexual intercourse with a child, both women was exposed to be money grabbing liars, so please at least find out info before you type this nonsense.
As for Amiga Inc they deserve the name criminals for what they have done, what else would you call them?
Over a year has passed and the AmigaONE is out so there is no excuses or defence what will change the fact Amiga Inc has took peoples money and delivered piss all, if you know different please tell us we will be happy to hear about it.
Is this about just the coupons? no it is the fact a company has treated people like dirt, if this was Genesi or any other company you guys would rip in to them.
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Glitter never ever was charged,convicted of having sexual intercourse with a child, both women was exposed to be money grabbing liars, so please at least find out info before you type this nonsense.
Let's not pussy-foot around here. The guy is a despicable pervert and that's all there is to it. He did collect paedophilia off the internet, and there are no two ways about it. There's no comparing him to Amiga Inc. Amiga Inc may be crooks in many people's eyes, but Gadd is a pervert and a danger to society and children. If they locked him up for ever it would be too short a sentence.
His music or artistic achievemnts are irrelevant.
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bhoggett wrote:
Glitter never ever was charged,convicted of having sexual intercourse with a child, both women was exposed to be money grabbing liars, so please at least find out info before you type this nonsense.
Let's not pussy-foot around here. The guy is a despicable pervert and that's all there is to it. He did collect paedophilia off the internet, and there are no two ways about it. There's no comparing him to Amiga Inc. Amiga Inc may be crooks in many people's eyes, but Gadd is a pervert and a danger to society and children. If they locked him up for ever it would be too short a sentence.
His music or artistic achievemnts are irrelevant.
So we all agree? Great muscian, crap person... Sorry, cats... pigeons... significant throwing force... I couldn't resist :lol:
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greenboy wrote:
As I said in my post Phoenix does not have any interest in the Amiga name. You brought Phoenix into the discussion here seeming to claim that it does. But it does not. Trying to spin that into a PR-speak connection afterwards while ignoring what I said about mine and Phoenix's lack of interest in the Name shows that when you "call it as you see it " you apparently also choose to filter out what others say if it doesn't fit what you want to see.
Had your posting been soley about Phoenix's postition with regards to the Amiga branding then fair enough. However it soon turned into a posting about Genesi. In fact your first comment tried to counter my comment about the lawsuit by highlighting your close ties (and by extention your authority) to Genesi.
So you cry foul when I bring up your close ties with Genesi, and yet you use it as a basis for your arguments?
Another misdirection: "I never dragged phoenix into working so closely with Genesi" does not even fit the context of your orignal statement - it's purpose of making the association was to attribute something to Phoenix which simply is not true.
I'm not ashamed to admit I haven't got the foggiest what you are going on about. :-?
As far as your BBRV quote from ANN, it does not really prove what you say it proves, as I see it. The post seems to list several reasons, and other BBRV posts have also raised other reasons. Those reasons do not constitute a "nuisance suit" - unless one throws away quite a few phrases that speak of motivations as well as business and contract.
When a suit is "just a means to shut Bill McEwen up and force Amiga Inc. into a settlement that might include us obtaining the rights to the Amiga trademarks and the classic OS." I'd say that would be a nuisence suit.
Your more personal comments about my posting style are simply irrelevant to the topic, and as in the past you seem to be rather antagonistic...
They weren't intended to be personal, just an observation. They aren't irrlevant, they were my explanation of why I mentioned Phoenix alongside Genesi.
Please post examples of my antagonistic behaviour. It's so little I post on here that I can't remember what I said where. Most of my postings on here recently have been help, information or general chit-chat and totally devoid of politics.
Or is it just the case that it's easier to try and label me a troll rather than engage in a proper discussion.
If I speak with authority it is because I present my observations and experiences in my style, usually without trying to go inflammatory. That does not constitute PR, though I do try to choose my words so as not to splatter invective and hearsay into a discussion when I am at my best ; }
Making a point of your connections, talking about another company with the kind of insights you claim to have all smacks of PR to me. From what I see whether you want to or not you function as PR to Genesi - always there to the defence, always there with Phoenix's spin on events when Genesi/MOS/pegasos come up as the topic of conversation.
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So we all agree? Great muscian, crap person
Yeah, the guy is a bastard but his music is great, also i am NOT comparing him with Amiga Inc like for some sad reason someone decided to bring him in to topic.
Maybe a secret fan :-D
Amiga Inc are crooks (what else would you call a company what takes peoples money and delivers nothing), no one can prove they are not crooks, end of story.
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That was the first thing to pop into my mind when I read about the law firm dumping Amiga Inc. If it is that, it's way too late as the judge is about to rule on the sanctions and having or not having counsel won't impact on that since they had counsel submit their replies already.
In due process. The ratio decidendi has yet to be given.
If the judge pulls the plug, I could see him delaying it's execution till Amiga Inc has time to find new counsel and file an appeal.
I’ll just watch and eat some more extra strength butter and fine salted pop corn.
I just don't see Amiga Inc being able to secure another counsel without having some fresh cash to offer.
The bit the bugs me is the income (from licensing) from the AmigaOne sales i.e. where does the income go to?
The bank statement only proves the current bank balance, cash deposited and cash withdrawal. It doesn’t prove any other external (i.e. outside the said entity) bank accounts. One could be liberal in regards to entity separation between the other external bank accounts and the business’s bank accounts.
Who's going to take them when they have just stiffed their last counsel?
Is the claim "stiffed their last counsel" the real situation or speculation?
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Generally, the way it works is that one needs to prove guilt, not the lack of it.
- Mike
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that_punk_guy wrote:
uncharted wrote:
If their intentions are to capture the whole market by having "the name", then that won't work either, because their employees and fanboys (not talking regular users, but the MOS equivalent of MikeB) have pissed off to many people, and also there are those of us that prefer AOS4 simply because it's closer to what we want than MOS is.
But if Genesi owned the Amiga brand, at least to the extent that Amiga, Inc. does now (not forgetting Gateway's patents) surely we'd be able to have OS4 for the Pegasos?
One problem with current Pegy/MorphOS is the dual control of OS and HW under one entity (i.e. Genesi). It’s IBM all over again (i.e. IBM PS/2 & OS/2 (conflict of interest)). I don’t see MorphOS running on “AmigasOne” boards.
The ideal situation (in traditional commercial sense) is an independent OS provider with cloned HW vendors (i.e. the Microsoft/X86 PC structure). This classic structure enables the 8086/286/386 PC platform to compete with superior hardware (non-unified 68K PC and RISC PC boxes) at that time.
X86’s success also translated to X86 Linux's success (against classic Unix markets i.e. one couldn’t deny the succuss of Linux without the dominance of X86 bandwagon).
The PowerPC market has some elements of a clone market i.e.
PowerPC motherboard builders and support
+Eyetech (out-sourced to some Taiwanese company)
+Genesi (via DCE(?))
PowerPC Chipsets vendors
+ Marvel
+ MAI
PowerPC CPU vendors
+IBM
+Motorola
PowerPC BIOS Firmware
- Element missing due to non-compatible BIOS ecosystems. Must achieve the some cross compatibility as with X86/AT BIOS clone vendors.
PowerPC OS vendors
- Weak at market presence (largely tied to related market structural problems).
The wheel of PowerPC clone (desktop) market is dogged by infighting and lower level ecosystem incompatibilities.
So we'd have the choice, plus cheaper hardware to run it on. Sounds good to me...
The chipset war between NVIDIA (e.g. nForce II) vs VIA (e.g. KT400/600) was good for the AMD Athlon K7’s market. The incoming K8 chipset battle between AMD vs NVIDIA vs VIA vs SIS vs Ali/ULi will bring price or/and function benefits to the consumer(in long term it benefits AMD’s K8 platform). The X86 motherboard clone war adds an extra competitive edge against other motherboard markets. Before that could happen, other critical low level ecosystems must be common.
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uncharted wrote:
From what I see whether you want to or not you function as PR to Genesi - always there to the defence, always there with Phoenix's spin on events when Genesi/MOS/pegasos come up as the topic of conversation.
To an extent it's in the interest of the Phoenix consortium to speak up when Genesi, etc. is the topic. This is because of the mutual goals of the two and the mutual benefits of working together. This has to be seen in the context of the failure of Amiga, Inc. to work in a mutually beneficial way with Phoenix, and the striking contrast in Genesi's style.
No company and no relationship are perfect, but it has been very nice to see a company not only with viable products being developed and marketed, but also with the awareness that the best way to work with an outfit like Phoenix is to be willing to give as well as get, to share resources, to seed the community, and work cooperatively toward a shared goal.
Phoenix and Genesi aren't joined at the hip, and there are elements in each that don't necessarily find any benefit in the other, but there is a lot of symbiosis there for the "post-amiga" space.
-- gary_c
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Paul_Gadd wrote:
Amiga Inc are crooks (what else would you call a company what takes peoples money and delivers nothing), no one can prove they are not crooks, end of story.
I have to agree with Bobson on this one. Amiga Inc., in my opinion are primarily guilty of being inept at running the company. I don't think they would have willingly set themselves up for all this crap...
They have screwed up rotten and haven't delivered on many promises, but I don't think that was their plan.
After all, if you intend to profit by defraud customers and what not, you'd create a small company that is easily lost and moves on. You remain faceless, anonymous, low profile and never have the same ID twice. Stay in one place, scam people, then move on to the next...(more than likely you set up buisness live in nigeria :-) )...
You absolutely do not take on a company that is registered, easily traced, has a public profile and can be made accountable in courts. Not unless you are the worlds worst ever supervillian :lol:
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by Karlos on 2003/9/29 21:55:57
You absolutely do not take on a company that is registered, easily traced, has a public profile and can be made accountable in courts. Not unless you are the worlds worst ever supervillian
Ever hear of WorldCom or Enron?
Dammy
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@Karlos
I have to agree with Bobson on this one. Amiga Inc., in my opinion are primarily guilty of being inept at running the company. I don't think they would have willingly set themselves up for all this crap...
They have screwed up rotten and haven't delivered on many promises, but I don't think that was their plan.
I don't think that anybody in their right mind believes they set out to scam people when they bought & licensed the Amiga stock and IP off Gateway.
However, when they screwed up, they reacted by attempting to sweep the mess under the carpet, and then turned to downright fraud rather than give it up as a bad job. Did they really intend to scam people with the Party Pack and coupon discount schemes? Maybe not, but my take is that they weren't at all certain they could honour their end of the bargain, but decided to take the money anyway and hope something would turn up before they'd have to make good on it.
It's not such a surprising story. A lot of people who end up committing fraud don't set out to do so, but simply get caught up on the downward slide and can't get off before it's too late.
At the end of the day, claiming that their current plight is just down to bad luck or evil competitors is a very sorry excuse for utter incompetence.
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Hammer wrote:
One problem with current Pegy/MorphOS is the dual control of OS and HW under one entity (i.e. Genesi). It’s IBM all over again (i.e. IBM PS/2 & OS/2 (conflict of interest)). I don’t see MorphOS running on “AmigasOne” boards.
I realize that this is really Ben's arguement, but lets be honest about it. Commodore owned everything and that worked better then anyone since. In addition, MorphOS does run on the Teron boards (which are AmigaOnes without the custom ROM) and in fact posts in the last few weeks have pointed to it running on actual AmigaOne boards, whether it actually does or not isnt a real issue, its not a significant effort if it doesnt at this point. In addition, MorphOS runs on Macs, and other PPC cards, there are alot more systems that MorphOS runs on then there will ever be AmigaOnes.
The ideal situation (in traditional commercial sense) is an independent OS provider with cloned HW vendors (i.e. the Microsoft/X86 PC structure). This classic structure enables the 8086/286/386 PC platform to compete with superior hardware (non-unified 68K PC and RISC PC boxes) at that time.
You are missing a whole lot of steps here, however understand, MorphOS runs on multiple PPC boards, Amiga OS 4.0 will only run on AmigaOne. The "closed" system is currenly Amiga OS 4.0, not MorphOS. The one that wont run on the others board, is 4.0, the one that has only has one modern board it runs on is OS 4.0.
-Tig
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@Tigger
You are missing a whole lot of steps here, however understand, MorphOS runs on multiple PPC boards
Ummm, correct me if I'm wrong, but MorphOS is not available independent of the Pegasos hardware. You can't use MorphOS without buying a Pegasos any more than you'll be able to use AmigaOS4 without buying an AmigaOne (the CSPPC/BlizzardPPC cards don't count). The fact that the impediment is not hardcoded into the firmware is rendered meaningless by current marketing policy.
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bhoggett wrote:
@Tigger
Ummm, correct me if I'm wrong, but MorphOS is not available independent of the Pegasos hardware. You can't use MorphOS without buying a Pegasos any more than you'll be able to use AmigaOS4 without buying an AmigaOne (the CSPPC/BlizzardPPC cards don't count). The fact that the impediment is not hardcoded into the firmware is rendered meaningless by current marketing policy.
Bill Buck has talked often about selling a MorphOS CD for the Mac, thats a pretty huge market, and lots of available hardware. This week, Ben once again basically blew the thought of running Amiga on Macs out of the water, despite the fact you can buy a more powerful Mac for the large premium we have on AmigaOne branded Teron boards. The entire structure of how Amiga OS is being done has driven it away from other hardware choices, and thats unfortunate for several reasons. Whether MorphOS is available to purchase for other hardware solutions today, isnt the issue in my opinion, the fact that Genesi is willing to discuss and work towards other solutions is a big step in the right direction, one that the Amiga Inc (Fleecy) plan doesnt support.
-Tig
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Tigger wrote:
Bill Buck has talked often about selling a MorphOS CD for the Mac, thats a pretty huge market, and lots of available hardware.
Bill Buck says many things, just because he talks about it makes it no more true. Besides the CD you are talking about is always refered to not as a full operating system, but rather some kind of autorun CD (you play games or something from MOS hosted IIRC - I'd have to check the exact quotes)
This week, Ben once again basically blew the thought of running Amiga on Macs out of the water, despite the fact you can buy a more powerful Mac for the large premium we have on AmigaOne branded Teron boards. The entire structure of how Amiga OS is being done has driven it away from other hardware choices, and thats unfortunate for several reasons.
When it is released it will be available to CS as well as A1, that's twice as many platforms than MOS is publically available for. It's not worth going into this now as this is OT and been done to death. All I can say is anyone who honestly believes that anyone is whiter than white on this issue, as a complete fool.
Whether MorphOS is available to purchase for other hardware solutions today, isnt the issue in my opinion, the fact that Genesi is willing to discuss and work towards other solutions is a big step in the right direction,
Is it not the issue because you don't like the fact? What fact that Genesi is is willing to working with others? Previous posting on the web would indicate otherwise when talking about the Amiga market. Unless you just swallow the company line, like many seem so willing to. I still find it funny how with all these problems that have occured around Genesi it is always someone else's fault.
one that the Amiga Inc (Fleecy) plan doesnt support.
That's odd, one of the things people were whinging about a while back was the fact that during MOS/Amiga discussions, amiga wanted to seperate Ralph + co from Bplan so SW and HW were independant.
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I realize that this is really Ben's arguement
I don't think that section text is relevant to my post...
but lets be honest about it. Commodore owned everything and that worked better then anyone since
Commodore’s success would be considered to be a dismal failure compared to MS Windows/Linux/AMD/Intel based solution (i.e. CBM went bust in the long run).
In addition, MorphOS does run on the Teron boards (which are AmigaOnes without the custom ROM)
Notice " " characters i.e. I already know the Pegy I is a variant of Teron based solution. The point of reference for cloning POV (in relation to multi-vendor compatibility) is the X86 PC world.
and in fact posts in the last few weeks have pointed to it running on actual AmigaOne boards, whether it actually does or not isnt a real issue, its not a significant effort if it doesnt at this point.
Statement i.e. "whether it actually does or not" is self defeating.
and other PPC cards
No different to OS/2 Warp on certain PC X86 clones.
there are alot more systems that MorphOS runs on then there will ever be AmigaOnes.
Numbers was not the point i.e. it’s about even level field for other HW vendors. A vertical integrated company will have certain advantages over its competitors (within market level).
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When it is released it will be available to CS as well as A1, that's twice as many platforms than MOS is publically available for.
MorphOS has a Pegasos and Blizzard/CyberstormPPC version as well. "twice as many platforms" is a pretty laughable argument against MorphOS to be honest, as OS4 is not available at all...
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dammy wrote:
by Karlos on 2003/9/29 21:55:57
You absolutely do not take on a company that is registered, easily traced, has a public profile and can be made accountable in courts. Not unless you are the worlds worst ever supervillian
Ever hear of WorldCom or Enron?
Dammy
Exactly :-) Were they any good at it they wouldn't have been caught...
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Hi Andy/unchartered, you have a certain spin on all this that is not completely factual. You have twisted events, conjecture and opinion into a historical mess. But, no worries! :-) . Your posts help us understand the distortion out there in some minds. We will keep marching ahead, attending presentations, recruiting new developers, bringing new operating systems and applications to the platform and eventually one day you and others will see things in a new light.
MorphOS is a concept not a just an operating system!
:-)
R&B
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Warface wrote:
When it is released it will be available to CS as well as A1, that's twice as many platforms than MOS is publically available for.
MorphOS has a Pegasos and Blizzard/CyberstormPPC version as well. "twice as many platforms" is a pretty laughable argument against MorphOS to be honest, as OS4 is not available at all...
Read again When it's released
Are Blizzard/CSPPC versions publically available? No. Which was that whole point of me mentioning it. Whoever it was was complaining about AOS being limited to one platform, which is not true, while on it's release and to this very day, MorphOS is only available to the public by buying a Pegasos despite the fact these other versions apparently exist.
What I find laughable is that the only argument I can find against this is the old "it hasn't been released yet" chesnut.
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bbrv wrote:
Hi Andy/unchartered, you have a certain spin on all this that is not completely factual. You have twisted events, conjecture and opinion into a historical mess. But, no worries! :-) . Your posts help us understand the distortion out there in some minds. We will keep marching ahead, attending presentations, recruiting new developers, bringing new operating systems and applications to the platform and eventually one day you and others will see things in a new light.
You know what, you're totally right, my mind is totally distorted.
Yes I must of twisted things, by using fact, varifyable evidence and direct quotes from yourself. I feel so ashamed that I logically, methodically, and thoughtfully took apart peoples comments, and presented evidence for what I was saying. I can't tell you how bad it was of me to counter each of Greenboy's arguments so well that he felt the need to play tag-team posting with GaryC.
I've been a total fool, I should of followed everything you said, believed every last word, you, your employees and associates said on every matter. I was such a fool for thinking for myself, researching, asking questions, engaging in adult debate.
In fact it was just downright rude of me to ask questions that you'd have to dodge, like "Did members of the MOS team have access to the OS source code during Escom Amiga era?" and "Why does it appear in the emails published by Samface on ANN that you organise postings to certain forums?"
In short I can only apologise to yourselves, your employees, your fans, and customers, by not sycophantically praising every little announcement you've ever made, not complaining about/trolling every announcement made by Hyperion/Eyetech/Amiga, and not hijacking every last AmigaOne/OS 4 thread on the internet to tell everyone exactly how much better Pegasos/MOS is.
I'm off to buy a Peg2 now.......
Oh yeah, I don't know what your next announcement will be, but......WOOHOO You rock, man. HYPEos Suxxx....in advance.
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Read again When it's released
When it's [OS4] released both on AmigaONE/CSPPC I bet your statement will not be more true at all. By then we may have MorphOS on much more platforms. AmigaOS4 is more limited to platforms than MorphOS is still true, and I expect it to remain so for some time, despite of different releases.
You complain about the not yet released expression - yet you use it for the CSPPC/BlizzPPC MorphOS as well as me. Just to note.
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@Andy
Read again When it's released
Well, I don't think we should be talking about things in advance here. There is no point talking about a syatem as it is currently marketed and comparing it against something that isn't even released yet.
Are Blizzard/CSPPC versions publically available? No. Which was that whole point of me mentioning it. Whoever it was was complaining about AOS being limited to one platform, which is not true,
Blizzards/CSPPC don't count anyway, as no one manufactures these any more.
It is a simple fact that both MorphOS and AmigaOS4 are just marketing gimmicks intended to sell custom hardware solutions.
What I find laughable is that the only argument I can find against this is the old "it hasn't been released yet" chesnut.
It's a valid argument. A lot of things have been promised over the years and have never actually materialised. There is no guarantee that something will be released until it actually is.
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bhoggett wrote:
Well, I don't think we should be talking about things in advance here. There is no point talking about a syatem as it is currently marketed and comparing it against something that isn't even released yet.
Your right Bill, I just got drawn into the arguement I guess.
The main point was that Hyperion's marketing stratagy with regards to OS 4 is not more restricted than Genesi's in fact Genesi won't even support existing hardware that MOS apparently already runs on.
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I think the whole thing is a bit of a balls up - I was honestly suprised that there was even still an Amiga brandname in existence when I 'rejoined the scene' so to speak, at the beginning of the year. I think the whole thing should be laid to rest and left in the hands of those who care about the Amiga, rather than a load of crooks or opportunists....its just a shame that the Amiga community has been split by this whole debacle....
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by uncharted on 2003/9/30 14:58:49
The main point was that Hyperion's marketing stratagy with regards to OS 4 is not more restricted than Genesi's in fact Genesi won't even support existing hardware that MOS apparently already runs on.
Hold the phone, didn't BBRV already state that if someone wants to port MOS to A1, they would give assistance to whomever is doing the port?
Dammy
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The main point was that Hyperion's marketing stratagy with regards to OS 4 is not more restricted than Genesi's in fact Genesi won't even support existing hardware that MOS apparently already runs on.
Hold the phone, didn't BBRV already state that if someone wants to port MOS to A1, they would give assistance to whomever is doing the port?
I'm not sure about that, but may have missed something. MOS already runs on a Teron board, so the only thing standing in the way of it running on an AmigaOne is Amiga's firmware changes, right?
But it seems like maybe whatever plans Genesi might have regarding the AmigaOne could depend on the outcome of the court cases.
Beyond that I don't know what Uncharted is referring to. What exactly is Genesi not supporting?
-- gary_c