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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: GadgetMaster on April 15, 2002, 10:06:32 PM
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Posted on Amigart (http://www.amigart.com) Monday, April 15 @ 12:14:38 EDT by Sinan Gurkan
"On ann and elsewhere there has been a lot of speculation about the nature of the ROM modifications to allow the A1-G3 (and any subsequent Amiga inc approved models) to run OS4 +
As most people here will realise we have always declared that we want to use the official Amiga OS and for Hyperion and Amiga to have their just rewards for licencing the AmigaOne and OS4 products. We are not the only possible licencees, but I guess that we committed to these conditions before anyone else. As a result we have worked in very close cooperation with both Amiga Inc and Hyperion throughout the A1 development program to ensure that piracy of OS4 is kept to a minimum. Jointly we have worked out that the best way to
do this is :..."
- To put ROM extensions (ie dongle code) in the boot ROM, in addition to the regular boot code.
- To put this in hard-coded, socketed ROM at a specific address in the PPC memory map, rather than in Flash ROM, which could easily be pirated/updated
- To ensure that OS4 calls this code from multiple points to make workround patches difficult to implement
- To ensure that a copy of OS4 is sold with all hardware capable of running it (ie with the dongle code in ROM)
- To use similar routines that already exist in the 3.1 Kickstart ROM as an alternative for the PPC accelerator implementations.
Although a dedicated pirate could no doubt copy the boot code and dupe the ROM's, unless this was to be done in bulk - which would be easy to spot and close down - the overheads involved versus buying the ROM would mean few people would be likely to do it. The situation is analagous to OS3.1/3.5/3.9 in that you had to have/buy 3.1 ROMs to run the OS, unless you go to extraordinary work-around lengths.
We are producing all the developer/dealer boards and at least the first run of user boards with this dongle code in place in the ROM - and therefore the obligation to purchase OS4 with them. (They can of course be used to run Linux, but you will still need to buy OS4 with these boards). If there is sufficient demand from the Linux comunity we will probably then produce some boards without the AmigaOne name (and without the dongle code needed for booting OS4). In this case we will also make available an OS4 + ROM upgrade pack (similar to the OS3.5/3.9 +3.1ROMs upgrade packs sold by most Amiga
Dealers) to purchasers of the Linux-only boards wishing to upgrade to OS4.
As far as other licenced stand-alone ppc hardware is concerned, it would, in my view, need to support a similar protection format (ie socketed hard coded ROM, not Flash ROM) to embody the same level of anti-piracy protection as The A1G3-SE. Whether, in the specific cases of other hardware manufacturers, this socketed ROM has already been implemented, or remains an option, or requires a partial redesign of the hardware is not something that I have any knowledge of. It is between Amiga Inc and the potential licencees concerned.
This tight anti-piracy regime has obviously upset some individuals on the
mailing lists who clearly did not expect to have to pay for OS4, or hoped to buy unapproved/unlicenced PPC Linux boards to save a few bucks. Well tough, we dont want your business under those circumstances and will do all in our power to make sure that if you buy one of our boards for Linux-only use you will not be able to use it for running OS4+ unless you are prepared to pay Hyperion and Amiga Inc their proper licence fees.
And I'm sure that all other potential serious licencees of endorsed Amiga
hardware will see it this way too."
Alan Redhouse, Eyetech CEO
Taken from AmigaONE mailing-list
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Good Good ;)=
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>Well tough, we dont want your business under those circumstances and will do all in our power to make sure that if >you buy one of our boards for Linux-only use you will not be able to use it for running OS4+ unless you are prepared >to pay Hyperion and Amiga Inc their proper licence fees.
>And I'm sure that all other potential serious licencees of endorsed Amiga hardware will see it this way too."
Absolutely!
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so you have to buy OS4 ....big deal!
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Thanks Alan for making this clear.
I, for one, agree fully with this arrangement. :-D
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A note, why would anyone use a copied AmigaOS? Pay for it! Phew, I said it! :-)
Coder
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Nice work gentelmen. :)
Now that the pirates are out and shouting i'm
sitting here daily laughing (really) as they
grope for excuses to make this look bad simply
because they can't get a free copy. :)
Wish i had gone for a dev board. I gotta have
one now! :)
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For the record, just because I am feeling a little misunderstood regarding my comment on the other thread, I do not, nor have I ever advocated software piracy of AmigaOS or any other software. I have purchased, or received as a gift, every copy of an Amiga OS or product I own.
What I disagree with is the silly notion of not selling Amiga OS seperately. You want to install a piracy lock? Fantastic! Encrypt the ROM and sell it along with the OS so that you have to have a matched ROM/CD set. I have no problems there at all. I really don't.
Don't tell me that every time I want to upgrade, I have to buy a whole new motherboard, processor, or other piece of hardware.
Amiga Inc, in their typical fashion, have no idea how to write a press release without putting their foot in their mouths. I honestly wish to God almighty that Amiga Inc. would hire someone with a little "C.S". But according to other site members in the forums here, "C.S" is dead... right?
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> Don't tell me that every time I want to upgrade,
> I have to buy a whole new motherboard, processor,
> or other piece of hardware.
Although I'm not sure if you have to update the
hardware dongle with every new update of the OS,
I'ts certain that you don't have to buy a new mother-
board with each OSupdate.
I really don't see how anyone could interpret the
licence like that. Well, if it CAN be misundertood, I
guess AInc DID made a bad job at being clear...
Ben H.at least, was very amused with the sheer thought of
having to buy a new board for every update, when this
misinterpretation was suggested in a thread on ANN:-)
.
SlimJim
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IMO, there is no difference between this and the traditional Amiga OS/ROM method.
You could not take AmigaOS 3.x and boot it on a Mac (68K) machine, even if you could get one with compatable hardware. Why? Because of the KickStart Rom!
People need to quit their bitchin and be thankfull that we are finally getting a new modern computer and OS!
Loki
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Good Job eyetech!
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I won't explain again why it is so painfully obvious that not allowing separate OS purchases is totally idiotic and will harm users, the PPC hardware market and Amiga Inc themselves.
This isn't the Bad Old Amiga Days, neither are you trying to sell to iMac users.
Then I see childish flamebait and insults like this from company executives:
This tight anti-piracy regime has obviously upset some individuals on the mailing lists who clearly did not expect to have to pay for OS4, or hoped to buy unapproved/unlicenced PPC Linux boards to save a few bucks.
Bad consumer! Stupid user! Sit!
Well tough, we dont want your business under those circumstances and will do all in our power to make sure that if you buy one of our boards for Linux-only use you will not be able to use it for running OS4+ unless you are prepared to pay Hyperion and Amiga Inc their proper licence fees.
We are prepared to pay for Amiga OS. Hell, it's my highest wish (when it comes to somputer related wishes anyway...). I am NOT prepared to have what's supposed to be a software company (Amiga Inc) tell me what hardware I can and can't use.
Why do some people seem to assume that there will never be any other Amiga OS compatible PPC hardware than the AmigaOne G3-SE?
And I'm sure that all other potential serious licencees of endorsed Amiga hardware will see it this way too.
Yeah, LOL. I can't see the end of the line of queuing potential licencees, fighting over an Amiga approval. :-P
It's nice that in addition to a familiar OS, we'll also experience that cosy feeling of little choice among hardware, hardware manufacturers ignoring Amiga OS and overpriced hardware due to nonexistant competition that we've been enjoying ever since C= died.
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@Wayne
I think you read too much into this.
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if wayne is right in what he said then i also have concerns. we are moving FORWARD yeh?
plfff.. amiga haha, i love it, but i'm sure some counselling should be supplied to the hangers-on free of charge from amiga inc.
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Those with the party pack get it for free anyway i imagine, part of the deal...
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Howdy Seehund.
>We are prepared to pay for Amiga OS. Hell, it's my highest wish (when it comes to somputer related wishes anyway...). I am NOT prepared to have what's supposed to be a software company (Amiga Inc) tell me what hardware I can and can't use.
>Why do some people seem to assume that there will never be any other Amiga OS compatible PPC hardware than the AmigaOne G3-SE?
I fail to see the logic of your argument here. In fact, any company who has an Amiga compliant motherboard design can and would sell you one. It's just a matter of personal choice if you go for the flashed bios or not. I see nothing stopping you here from making a hardware choice. Other than the only systems that will first run OS4 will be the A1 and current Amiga's with PPC accelerator cards. With luck Pegasos will get that liscence and maybe one or two others will come out with designs as well. Let's not dump the eggs before thier hatched. And then (god knows why) you can walk out today and buy a 4KT+PPC and place OS4 onto the HD when it's released. Of course, if someone is selling a PPC motherboard design that wont run the OS then well, it's a moot point isn't it? Why would you attempt to run an OS on hardware it's not designed for.
Unless of course your trying to infer some sort of a hidden agenda. I for one don't see it.
Ivan.
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Hi Ivan,
Read the latest Executive Update again, then read my reply to your last post in the comments to the "Executive Update - Amiga Status Announcement" news item and you'll see why the sensible and natural course of actions you describe above cannot happen.
We're kicked back into the eighties, and hardware distributors won't be keen to follow us there.
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Hey :)
I think i see where all this hubbub coming from. Let me quote from the update:
"As a result, AmigaOS4 and all future versions will ship only on those hardware products to which Amiga Inc has specifically granted a license after reviewing the capabilities of both the solution provider and their product."
Which can be taken as, 'only updates to the OS will be shipped with new hardware.'. I don't believe this interpretation (and very left handed at that) for a minute. It would spell death for the OS and Amiga is not so foolish.
Still a few things in the back of my head say this isn't as bad as all that. This looks to me like a filtering mechanism to weed out the truely pitiful excuses for hardware that manage to float around the market.
Ivan.
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wayne
What I disagree with is the silly notion of not selling Amiga OS seperately
eyetech
In this case we will also make available an OS4 + ROM upgrade pack (similar to the OS3.5/3.9 +3.1ROMs upgrade packs sold by most Amiga
I dont get it Wayne, why do you still have this idea about not selling the Amiga OS seeperately?
wayne
Don't tell me that every time I want to upgrade, I have to buy a whole new motherboard, processor, or other piece of hardware.
You don't. Just pull the chip and replace it with the new version of the rom (as with moving from 2.1 to 3.0). or maybe the 4.2/4.x will use the same rom as 4.0 (as with 3.1 to 3.5+9. Another idea you are missinterpreting Wayne.
Pteppic
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Oh how I long for the day when we can all argue about something SUBSTANTIAL...
Yay, Amiga Inc won't be sunk by pirates... But I'm sure looking forward to some smooth crack-demos on the front of my games again... Paradox & others are still out there... I miss scrolltext.
And what's with this hype about a possible (still vapourware) Amiga with a G3? Why would we want a G3 when there are G4 processors on the market, and G5's on the drawing board? I think we're selling ourselves short... again.
Are we there yet???
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pteppic,
*trying really, really hard not to lose my temper and start swearing uncontrollably by bashing head against keyboard* Calm... Calm... Calm...
I dont get it Wayne, why do you still have this idea about not selling the Amiga OS seeperately?
I'll do it slowly this time, okay?
The. Pre-ordered. A1G3-SE. And. The. Blizzard/CS-PPC. Are. The. Only. Exceptions. From. The. OS4/hardware. Bundling. Requirements.
The pre-ordered A1G3-SE and the Blizzard/CS-PPC are the only exceptions from the OS4/hardware bundling requirements.
Won't somebody please read the Executive Update?
I don't care about the pre-ordered A1G3-SE. It's just another motherboard - and that's the way it bloody well should be. It's not an "Amiga". There are no "Amigas". I don't care about Eyetech. They're just another hardware reseller. These things should be considered to be irrelevant to the platform as a whole. We want OS4 to run on as much PPC hardware as possible. Will you all please stop thinking "Amiga One G3-SE" all the time? Well, OK, if this OS/hardware bundling crap comes to reality it's very likely that's all the hardware and Eyetech the only distributor we'll have to choose from...
There is Amiga OS, which I care about. I want to buy that OS and install it on any damn compatible hardware I want to. No compulsory bundling. No compulsory licensing.
You don't. Just pull the chip and replace it with the new version of the rom
Gnnnnnnnn... Which new ROM? You have to buy a computer or motherboard to get that.
If you want to have a more clear view of what I'm thinking, or rather was thinking before rage and fatigue got the better of me, check out ANN (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1018702142&category=news) or the Exec Update discussion (http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=42704) here on amiga.org. I can be bothered to write it all again just as much as a non-Amiga hardware distributor can be bothered to become an Amiga licensee. :-P
[edit: I'm tired and I forgot how to spell and form coherent sentences.]
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>>I want to buy that OS and install it on any damn compatible hardware I want to. No compulsory bundling. No compulsory licensing.
yeah i can understand that, but giveing such freedom will also give pirates an easyer time.
just like now 10 mates buy 3.1 roms & one buys AOS3.9 as well as the roms.
the other nine pirate the Os from the mate who bought it.
with the setup for Os4 you will not get the roms with out the OS.
so ten roms=ten Oses as well so no need to pirate
as there will be no one out there with aos4roms & not amigaos4.
& about upgradeing to newer version. i have read on the Aonelist .
you will get new Romchips with the New Os to put in your Aone.
but you will not be able to just buy the new romchips & whats the point in just buying the new romchips if you dont intend to run the new Os version.
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Commodore had no choice in bundling an os with the Amiga and Amiga users had no choice but to use that os simply because there were no alternatives at the time. These days, however, there are plenty of alternatives. So where do Eyetech/Amiga Inc get off making people pay for something they don't necessarily want (ie. os4)?
That's one issue. Another is - why is a dongled rom necessary if the os is packaged with the m'board?
The spirit of Amiga does not live in a company, it lives in software that is a pleasure to use.
H2O2
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Good decision!
Something like that in the Wintel world would cause only anger, because M$ does not license hardware in the way Amiga Inc. does, but i think in this case it is best way to prevent piracy, as Alan says and to have a REAL Amiga-"machine".
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Really, oh, the horror. An Amiga User buys an AmigaOne G3-SE and get AOS 4.0, will the maddness never end...
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Why do some people seem to assume that there will never be any other Amiga OS compatible PPC hardware than the AmigaOne G3-SE?
I don't, but at the moment it seems to be the only game in town. Oh, and some accelerator on classic Amigas. When more options are approved, then we'll have more choices. I'd like to know the OS is going to work on something before I buy it.
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Oh, God no, not the MorphOS/bPlan conspiracy theory.
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@Seehund:
" As a result, AmigaOS4 and all future versions will
ship only on those hardware products to which Amiga
Inc has specifically granted a license after reviewing
the capabilities of both the solution provider and
their product. "
I don't think this has to be a whole motherboard
(and nor does Alan or Ben). To "ship only ON..." can
be interpreted as "shipping only in a way so that AOS4
only run on the hardware we licence." No, you won't be
able to use that custom -off the shelf linus board (if
they exist). But this licence don't stop newer version
of the OS to ship, with our without an updated dongle,
as long as it works on the licenced board. You
certainly don't have to buy a new MB every time.
.
SlimJim
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It doesn't even imply that the OS with ship with the approved product. I'm taking "will only ship on" to mean that there will be an Amiga OS variation available for purchase for every approved product (line). AmigaOne G3-SE is approved, thus you can purchase AmigaOS with ROM to install on it. Peagasos in not approved, thus you can't purchase AmigaOS with ROM to install on it. When/IF Peagasos gets approved you can then buy Amiga OS for it.
I think what was stated by Amiga, Inc. and Eyetech is what will happen now with the release of Amiga OS 4.0. I assume that (if I can remember their OS timeline) 4.1 and 4.2(3) will be BoingBags. AOS 4.5 with be a purchase release. If my interpetation is anywhere near accurate, then you just buy AOS 4.5 possibly with ROM like alot of us did with AOS 2.04. I assume it not quite correct as Eyetech would be selling the AmigaOne G3-SE with the AOS 4.0 ROM which might as well be sold with the OS CD.
It's good to see people THINKING ahead. Remember AOS and any hardware (accept appoved accelerators) are not even out yet. The A1 developer boards won't even ship til the end of the month. So, Has anyone sent off a polite email to Eyetech, Amiga, or Hyperion about how upgrade will be handled? Given that nothing is out yet they may not have given it much thought or finalized how it will happen yet. Not a bad thing, a kind question might get an answer and or get them thinking. Any volunteers?
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okay, i should have read not skimmed. But bassically what I thought. Still a well phased question to the right person might help make things abit more clearer.
Ever catch any of the educational programs on Voice of America (short wave)? The do educational programs in science, math, english, etc. broadcast to third world and non engish speaking counties. they us a verion of english call simple english IE. no big words, I don't think they us more than 2 or 3 syllable words and talk in a slow meter. I think announcements to the "Amiga Community" should be done this way. It might actually help.
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selling short?
Stand, Walk, Run.. We haven't even got to stand yet.... though in a month or so we should be walking abit.
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Why should people read? When they can take out all the verbs, nouns, and adjetives and make up their own MadLib announoucement.
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Without approved hardware how will you know if it will work on the hardware you choose. Are you willing the be the first to waste the money to prove that some piece of hardware will or will not work with the OS? How many PPC motherboards are there out on the market to buy? (not including Mac, though I bet some one will try)
No, but the Spirit dies with out it. I think it lives in the "Amiga Community" members. Where would the platform (software) be with out users?
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Seehund...easy mister! :)
You do have a point. But maybe Amiga should walk before it can run...by that I mean we all (almost) agree that the hardware of the AmigaG3 is dated...
What company would want to be seen to make dated hardware?
We know that the hardware must have a ROM chip licensed from Amiga Inc.
What company would want to make proprietry hardware?
We know the market for this item is tiny...
What company would want a piece of this small market?
Who really cares about/is interested in/is investing in the Amiga OS 4.0/G3 anyhow..? Anyone from outside the community..?
I agree with you in that being able to install Amiga OS on any avaliable hardware would be cool...but who given all the points above would make it?
Give Amiga Inc some more time and wait for OS5.0
Allen
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That's because Microsoft expects hardware to be made to run Windows, thus no need to certify the hardware as the hardware vendors are doing it themselves. Ah, the wonderful market dynamics of a monoploy.
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And a piece of the puzzle falls in place.
Wonderful, finally someone I can agree with.
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We are prepared to pay for Amiga OS. Hell, it's my highest wish (when it comes to somputer related wishes anyway...). I am NOT prepared to have what's supposed to be a software company (Amiga Inc) tell me what hardware I can and can't use.
You'll still have a great choice of hardware in the comming months/years and at present.
Why do some people seem to assume that there will never be any other Amiga OS compatible PPC hardware than the AmigaOne G3-SE?
My point exactly, there will be so much hardware we wont know what to do with it! That is on thing the Amiga Community has. That is, a lot of copmanies/persons in the hardware industry that are sticking behind the platform, such as Eyetech/Merlancia/Elbox/KDH, just to name a few...
It would be good to see a motherboard from Merlancia and Elbox in a few more years :) just not computer addons :}...
And bplan, if they ever decide that AmigaOS running on their machiens is a good thing :)... All looks good.
Yeah, LOL. I can't see the end of the line of queuing potential licencees, fighting over an Amiga approval. :-P
It's nice that in addition to a familiar OS, we'll also experience that cosy feeling of little choice among hardware, hardware manufacturers ignoring Amiga OS and overpriced hardware due to nonexistant competition that we've been enjoying ever since C= died.
These conditions are totaly different to the conditions of use of the classic Amiga hardware.. That is, Anyone can make an Amiga now, it justhas to be certified and their company has to be approved once, they have gone through an Amiga Inc Auditing so that Amiga Inc may assure quality!
Its not as if the only hardware we're going to have is the AmigaOne. More will come, and i know this is a rather large assumption, but i beleive with the amountof hardware companies (AmiBorn) that are still backing the Amiga, their will be more motherboards/configurations to come!
It seems like to me your comparing the current clarifications to the old classic hardware, which isnt fair, because the restrictions are practicaly non existant in this case.
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Rodney McDonell
Doh! - forgot to log in!
So why did i even bother talking above? You seem to understand where im coming from, maybe i missunderstood your comment?
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Commodore had no choice in bundling an os with the Amiga and Amiga users had no choice but to use that os simply because there were no alternatives at the time. These days, however, there are plenty of alternatives. So where do Eyetech/Amiga Inc get off making people pay for something they don't necessarily want (ie. os4)?
That's one issue. Another is - why is a dongled rom necessary if the os is packaged with the m'board?
You can buy an A1-G3-SE with the OpenPPC Bios isntalled, that way, you can run anything compatible witht he board, except AmigaOS4 :) - So if you dont want, OS4... Ask for a "Special A1-G3-SE"
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Redone for your viewing pleasure
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We are prepared to pay for Amiga OS. Hell, it's my highest wish (when it comes to somputer related wishes anyway...). I am NOT prepared to have what's supposed to be a software company (Amiga Inc) tell me what hardware I can and can't use.
You'll still have a great choice of hardware in the comming months/years and at present.
Why do some people seem to assume that there will never be any other Amiga OS compatible PPC hardware than the AmigaOne G3-SE?
My point exactly, there will be so much hardware we wont know what to do with it! That is on thing the Amiga Community has. That is, a lot of copmanies/persons in the hardware industry that are sticking behind the platform, such as Eyetech/Merlancia/Elbox/KDH, just to name a few...
It would be good to see a motherboard from Merlancia and Elbox in a few more years :) just not computer addons :}...
And bplan, if they ever decide that AmigaOS running on their machiens is a good thing :)... All looks good.
Yeah, LOL. I can't see the end of the line of queuing potential licencees, fighting over an Amiga approval.
It's nice that in addition to a familiar OS, we'll also experience that cosy feeling of little choice among hardware, hardware manufacturers ignoring Amiga OS and overpriced hardware due to nonexistant competition that we've been enjoying ever since C= died.
These conditions are totaly different to the conditions of use of the classic Amiga hardware.. That is, Anyone can make an Amiga now, it justhas to be certified and their company has to be approved once, they have gone through an Amiga Inc Auditing so that Amiga Inc may assure quality!
Its not as if the only hardware we're going to have is the AmigaOne. More will come, and i know this is a rather large assumption, but i beleive with the amountof hardware companies (AmiBorn) that are still backing the Amiga, their will be more motherboards/configurations to come!
It seems like to me your comparing the current clarifications to the old classic hardware, which isnt fair, because the restrictions are practicaly non existant in this case.
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Redone for your viewing pleasure
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Commodore had no choice in bundling an os with the Amiga and Amiga users had no choice but to use that os simply because there were no alternatives at the time. These days, however, there are plenty of alternatives. So where do Eyetech/Amiga Inc get off making people pay for something they don't necessarily want (ie. os4)?
That's one issue. Another is - why is a dongled rom necessary if the os is packaged with the m'board?
You can buy an A1-G3-SE with the OpenPPC Bios isntalled, that way, you can run anything compatible witht he board, except AmigaOS4 :) - So if you dont want, OS4... Ask for a "Special A1-G3-SE"
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Those of you not already there should really start reading the (public) archives on the AmigaONE mailing list at Yahoo! Groups. Alan clarifies and clarifies and clarifies time after time over there ;-)
There really isn't much more to wonder about.
.
SlimJim
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But very interested in the future of amiga,
and always following the news.
But the amount of idiots on these forums makes me sad,
why can't you people (apart from the ones actually making really good posts) THINK for a minute?
You all get upset about having to buy a new motherboard for each OS.
Where did you get THAT idea from? There can be plenty of solutions to get AOS copy protection to work.
The ROM on the motherboard is one way. A ROM on a peripherial card (PCI? USB?) could be another way.
Quit whining, this looks very promising, and I'm interested in getting my first amiga ever.
That has to be a good thing, right?
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I agree completely with Wayne... why is it a problem selling the Amiga OS separately, or the hardware separately? So people might want to run Linux on it; big deal?
I'm still baffled by those in the Amiga community who, from time to time, claim to want to make money but who invariably set themselves at a disadvantage in doing so. I guess they just want to be the big fish in the niche market of a dying niche market..?
And Amiga acting like certain other companies who only recently got into trouble for doing so...will do Amiga no good at all.
I don't have a problem buying Amiga OS--was hoping to. I'm not buying it with PPC hardware, I'm waiting for the version that McEwen said will run natively on x86 (as he said they are porting it to that architecture). As far as piracy protections, great--no prob there.
--EyeAm
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I dont get it Wayne, why do you still have this idea about not selling the Amiga OS seeperately?
To quote: "As a result, AmigaOS4 and all future versions will ship only on those hardware products to which Amiga Inc has specifically granted a license after reviewing the capabilities of both the solution provider and their product."
I'm not imagining things, nor am I "reading too much into it". It says, in no uncertain terms that AmigaOS4 and all future versions will ONLY SHIP WITH HARDWARE.
You don't. Just pull the chip and replace it with the new version of the rom (as with moving from 2.1 to 3.0). or maybe the 4.2/4.x will use the same rom as 4.0 (as with 3.1 to 3.5+9. Another idea you are missinterpreting Wayne.
How do you get the updated ROM chip if it is only shipped with hardware? I didn't read this wrong, I didn't read too much into it. They said SPECIFICALLY that OS4 and ALL UPDATES would only ship with hardware that they've been paid for the rights to produce.
Like I said, in regards to mis-interpreting what was said, I did not. What has happened here is that once again, Amiga Inc exercised their uncanny ability to speak without thinking.
For the fourth straight time, they have demonstrated their desperate need for a community-savvy PR person by opening their mouths and having to have someone (most recently Alan) come behind them to "clarify" what they said.
Bill McEwen (though like others, I do respect him a great deal for his accomplishments) probably has the soggiest foot on the planet from being kept in his mouth for so long.
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Poster: Seehund Date: 2002/4/15 23:47:32
Gnnnnnnnn... Which new ROM? You have to buy a computer or motherboard to get that.
Seehund before you blow a gasket, reread the message
- To put this in hard-coded, socketed ROM at a specific address in the PPC memory map, rather than in Flash ROM, which could easily be pirated/updated
Sounds to me like a socketed rom.
:-o
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thus you can't purchase AmigaOS with ROM to install on it. When/IF Peagasos gets approved you can then buy Amiga OS for it.
From November 2001 right up to last week Hyperion said all that
was needed for AOS4 to run on the Pegasos is a dev-board+doku.
Then you had to licence it by AInc. Ben Hermans said this could be
done by a dealer who purchases a bunch of boards and gets them
approved. He also said that this wouldn't cost extra money.
Today you need a special rom(socket). The Pegasos doesn't have
a rom-socket because no modern computer has these today.
To get a socket on the Pegasos you would have to ask BPlan
(no Dealer can do this). Given the tight layout of the board this
will cost a lot of time and money. Right now the Pegasos is
cheaper as the A1 and this HAS to change !
Eyetech/AInc/Hyperion know that the A1 can't stand the Pegasos
in terms of price and features in a fair competition. And they knew
from day 1 (Nov.2001) that it didn't have a rom-socket.
>piracy
Thats funny. If i wanted to run a stolen copy of AOS4 on the linux-
version of the A1 i only have to find somebody who has a Epromer.
If you want a good copy-protection: Use USB-dongles !
Their cheap , hard to crack and work on every system with USB.
Conclusion:
a)"They" don't know what they are doing.
b)"They" are/were lying.
c)"They" change the rules on a daily basis
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No need to patronise me. Unlike many of you in here, I am a regular computer user. A mere mortal. I can't read binary or speak Klingon.
Given the unbearable amount of time we have all had to wait, watching our beloved platform go through several near-death-experiences, the rumours from the net and the silence from Amiga Inc... I make no apoligies for not understanding what the hell is going on. It's not my fault!
I am one of thousands of ex-Amiga500 users who hate PCs, probably suffering undiagnosed ADD, who are just waiting to see Amiga reborn.
I want a stable SMOOTH computer. My A500 still kicks ass over my Athlon 1.3GhZ when it comes to stability and smooth scrolling.
I'm not interested in the politics of it all, though that seems to be all there is left to talk about because there is no hardware, no software and no Amiga with technology from this century in existence!
:-x
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So if this is the case, how will os4 for blizzard ppc cards on classic hardware work. B4 I get my head bitten off here, I fully undertstand the stance of eyetech and Amiga Inc(nothing has changed from the early years, u had to have the roms for the OS).
What I am getting at is , Will they be releasing new kickstart roms for the A1200, A4000 so we can buy OS4 or will they be released with the OS.
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@Wayne
> I'm not imagining things, nor am I "reading
> too much into it". It says, in no uncertain
> terms that AmigaOS4 and all future versions will
> ONLY SHIP WITH HARDWARE.
I certainly would never think you were imagining
things, but rather you are perhaps "reading too
little into it" Actually it says (quote):
"AmigaOS4 and all future versions will ship only
on those hardware products to which Amiga Inc has
specifically granted a license".
I wouldn't think this means AOS will only come with
hardware. It will ship only 'ON' those hardware-products
they have licensed (..and capable of running them -> enter
the dongle code). Be that hardware previously sold
or not - it will run ship so that it can run ON them.
I agree that if one (and indeed several) can misinterpret
this, it IS unclearly worded.
But this is how Ben and Alan see it, it sounds logical,
and as there is nothing in the licensing wording to
prevent you from shipping AOS updates without bundling
it with a new motherboard each time. The other
way around is another matter of course - if you buy
hardware (capable of running...well you know it by now!)
- then you HAVE to buy AOS together with it. But that was
not the question here.
(by the way, even we if we *should* follow your interpretation
strictly, nowhere is it said that 'hardware' means
a complete MB. Isn't that socketed ROM also
hardware;-)?.
.
SlimJim
-
Or in the words of Alan Redhouse (another post on the
AmigaONE ML):
"You can buy OS4 without an AmigaOne board but it will only work on hardware
that has a dongled ROM or an original 3.1 kickstart chip (in the case of
CyberstormPPC accelerators)"
Ties this subject up quite nicely, I'd say.
.
SlimJim
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>Bill McEwen (though like others, I do respect him a great deal for his accomplishments) probably has the soggiest foot on the planet from being kept in his mouth for so long.
LOL! :)
Thanx, i needed a good laugh. But in Bill's defense i do think too many people misinterperate Amiga's announcements and then go off to a public forum like AOrg here and start spouting thier views as fact. For most of the world, english is not a first language and it's easy for them to make interperatations that simply arent there. We've all seen this in IRC or some other forum, the guy from .com says one thing and the guy from .hk asks what does that mean? Myself, i think people read too much into these announcements and others simply arent capable of crediting Amiga with common sense.
As always, Amiga makes an announcement and some people pick apart it's wording untill they find some way to make a fuss about it.
Ivan.
-
To quote: "As a result, AmigaOS4 and all future versions will ship only on those hardware products to which Amiga Inc has specifically granted a license after reviewing the capabilities of both the solution provider and their product."
I'm not imagining things, nor am I "reading too much into it". It says, in no uncertain terms that AmigaOS4 and all future versions will ONLY SHIP WITH HARDWARE.
They said "on" not "with" those hardware products. I think we just nailed the crux of our understanding. The should have phrased it, according to my understanding, "As a result, AmigaOS4 and all future versions will ship only on those hardware platforms or product lines to which Amiga Inc has specifically granted a license after reviewing the capabilities of both the solution provider and their product."
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Mine has a ROM socket. That would be the Award BIOS on my Athlon 1700+. ROM, BIOS they are being used interchangablely here.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate." -Cool Hand Luke
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No computer had technolgy from this century... And forget quantum computing, that's soooooo 20th century... :)
-
Just want to clear a few things up, as a lot of the criticisms
here have been addressed by Ben Hermans on ANN aready.
1) Amiga aren't planning to charge for licensing
2) You can only get OS4 for CPPC/BPPC separately. These users are the
only ones that don't need to upgrade their hardware, so this makes
sense.
3) If eyetech produce a linux only version of their board they will
sell OS4 with a ROM upgrade if users decide they want AOS later.
4) There'a nothing stopping bPlan arranging something similar. (The
ROM system might require a board redesign, but if an equally good or
preferable system of copy protection available I'm sure they'd allow
it.)
5) You WON'T have to upgrade the motherboard to upgrade the OS unless
the basic system requirements change.
I personally don't like the whole ROM upgrade thing. You could copy
the rom more easily than you could copy a USB dongle (probably), but
at least it uses fixed addressing so you can't just softkick it like
you could with earlier upgrades - you would have to open the computer
up to do it. A USB dongle would be more
convenient.
-
This is incredible. I'll quote the executive update again.
[color=6600CC]"the AmigaOS only being available to licensed solution providers for the shipping of combined hardware and software solutions"
"AmigaOS4 and all future versions will ship only on those hardware products to which Amiga Inc has specifically granted a license"
"The only exclusion to this policy is a temporary measure to support the community members who have invested heavily in existing PPC accelerators" -[/color] and, as pointed out recently by Alan Redhouse, those who pre-ordered an A1G3-SE from Eyetech without AmigaOS and AmigaOS-perverted OpenFirmware BIOS ROM chips.
[color=6600CC]"we will require, as part of the licence conditions, that a copy of Amiga OS is purchased with all boards sold that are capable of running it"[/color]
I can't help but wonder how some people possibly even can begin to form the notion that we will be able to purchase Amiga OS separately to install it on hardware of our choice (NOT only on CS/BlizzardPPCs and pre-ordered A1G3-SEs) after reading this Executive Update and Alan Redhouse's clarifications. Are you all living in a parallel universe where common sense still applies in the Amiga market?
If we will be able to buy AmigaOS (and ROMs) separately that can only mean that:
1. Bill McEwen lied in this Exec. Update
2. Amiga Inc. needs to hire someone who knows English well enough to convey what they actually mean with their public statements, press releases and Exec. updates.
3. They changed their minds, which I hope so intensely that it hurts. Imagine that, common sense, reality as perceived by The Rest Of The World and normal business rules applied to the Amiga market!
Allen wrote:
You do have a point. But maybe Amiga should walk before it can run...by that I mean we all (almost) agree that the hardware of the AmigaG3 is dated...
Exactly. That is just one of the reasons why we should be able to buy the OS separately and install it on hardware of our choice.
What company would want to be seen to make dated hardware?
So far, just the single licensee there is. Though they don't make or design it, just distribute it.
We know that the hardware must have a ROM chip licensed from Amiga Inc.
What company would want to make proprietry hardware?
We know the market for this item is tiny...
What company would want a piece of this small market?
Who really cares about/is interested in/is investing in the Amiga OS 4.0/G3 anyhow..? Anyone from outside the community..?
Precisely. There's no incentive for distributors to become Amiga licensees, and becoming an Amiga licensee is the only way they'll be able to offer their products to the Amiga market as well as their other markets. We, the Amiga OS users lose. The hardware market that's interesting for us loses competition.
Everyone, please stop talking about the A1G3-SE all the time. Aren't we interested in the future and other, competing hardware? As I said before, there is no "Amiga" anymore, and there shouldn't be one. There should be Amiga OS, and hardware which we pick to run that OS of ours.
Rodney wrote:
You'll still have a great choice of hardware in the comming months/years and at present.
Ah, yes, look at all those licensees from all over the PPC hardware world breaking down Amiga Inc's doors. Eyetech and... Eyetech. Oh yes, two distributors of some PCI expansion cards and Merlancia with their fabulous... vapourware... are on the list of possible licensees under negotiations.
I really wouldn't care if there were 10 or 20 more licensees on that list, even though that's an utopia. What matters is that licensing should be a way to provide the licensor, the licensee and customers choosing licensed hardware with what the licensees and customers would perceive as advantages suitable for them - not to lock out any other customers and the non-licensed market.
My point exactly, there will be so much hardware we wont know what to do with it!
Unless the manufacturers/distributors get a license, all I know we'll be doing with that hardware is not running Amiga OS on it.
That is, a lot of copmanies/persons in the hardware industry that are sticking behind the platform, such as Eyetech/Merlancia/Elbox/KDH, just to name a few...
I want to buy my hardware from the ones who sell me the best hardware at the lowest price. If they don't give me that I don't care if they're an "Amiga" company or if they're licensed. They won't get my business. That's at least what things should be like, if Amiga would let the consumer choose.
And why on earth would a "non-Amigan" interested in buying Amiga OS and PPC hardware care if the company they buy the hardware from has sold A1200s in the past?
And bplan, if they ever decide that AmigaOS running on their machiens is a good thing :)... All looks good.
In that case they or another distributor would have to apply for a license and be deemed a suitable licensor by Amiga Inc, and rebuild the Pegasos mobos to accept socketed ROMs, then sell two different product lines - one with Amiga OS and modified ROMs for Amiga OS users, one without OS and ROMs for everybody else, and this would raise the price of the Pegasos. This is valid for any current or possible future hardware.
We know that OS4 will run on the Pegasos, according to Hyperion and Thomas Frieden, they only need a developer's board, but even when it runs on the Pegasos we despicable consumers won't be able to buy one to run with OS4 unless bplan or a distributor decides to be licensed, and then we'd only be able to buy from that distributor. How can some people say that this is good?
These conditions are totaly different to the conditions of use of the classic Amiga hardware.. That is, Anyone can make an Amiga now, it justhas to be certified and their company has to be approved once, they have gone through an Amiga Inc Auditing so that Amiga Inc may assure quality!
The new conditions is another reason to why compulsory licensing combined with compulsory bundling of the OS is Evil and Harmful. Licensing in it self is not bad, it's even Good, but there should be choice, damnit!
Anonymous wrote:
You all get upset about having to buy a new motherboard for each OS.
Where did you get THAT idea from? There can be plenty of solutions to get AOS copy protection to work.
The idea came from the Executive Update and the clarifications from Alan Redhouse.
In a normal OS market there can be plenty of solutions for copy protection, but now you'll have to buy a licensed motherboard/computer to get the OS and ROMs.
(another?) Anonymous wrote:
Quote:
- To put this in hard-coded, socketed ROM at a specific address in the PPC memory map, rather than in Flash ROM, which could easily be pirated/updated
Sounds to me like a socketed rom.
Yes, but to get that ROM you have to buy a licensed motherboard, in this case an A1G3-SE! Sheesh!
SlimJim wrote:
Or in the words of Alan Redhouse (another post on the
AmigaONE ML):
"You can buy OS4 without an AmigaOne board but it will only work on hardware
that has a dongled ROM or an original 3.1 kickstart chip (in the case of
CyberstormPPC accelerators)"
Ties this subject up quite nicely, I'd say.
It opens up a new can of worms. Firstly, this was mentioned in a post where he was talking about the possibility of a "LinuxOne" sold by Eyetech (i.e. the same board as A1G3-SE but delivered without OS4 and dongled ROMs). In that case nothing has changed - you can get OS4 + dongled ROMs separately only if you bought a pre-ordered A1G3-SE or "LinuxOne" from Eyetech.
He said nothing about the end-customer being able to purchase the OS and dongled ROMs separately from hardware, to install on hardware of the end-customer's choice, but if that's what he means - then Amiga Inc. have changed their minds from what clearly without room for different interpretations is presented in the Executive update, and all would be well!
P.S: Argo (and others), please quote or make clear whom you're replying to. There's no way of telling that, and your posts look like blurted out random thoughts from a "stream of (sub)consciousness".
-
Hey again Seehund :)
We seem to agree on a number of areas. Off hand i'd say,
1) We both like the licensing of HW. It's like a boingball sticker on the box saying buy this one it's what we had in mind when making the Amiga.
2) We think competition between hardware vendors is a good thing. Pushes out better quality and quicker release of designs.
3) We think there should be more hardware vendors pushing out Amiga boxes. (this should probably be #1 eh?)
4) Amiga needs to protect its OS from pirates.
5) Amiga Inc needs to hire a PR man. A web designer for that matter as well. Hell i'll do it myself if they'd let me. And for free. :P
But, we do disagree too. :)
>Precisely. There's no incentive for distributors to become Amiga licensees, and becoming an Amiga licensee is the only way they'll be able to offer their products to the Amiga market as well as their other markets. We, the Amiga OS users lose. The hardware market that's interesting for us loses competition.
There is incentive for them. Selling thier PPC systems to the Amiga market plain and simple. 1 more sale is 1 more sold box period. And it's free to that OEM to make that sale.
>not to lock out any other customers and the non-licensed market.
I don't see anyone being locked out. Even bPlan was offered a license by Amiga and we all know they never sent Amiga a dev board.
You want the OS sold seperatly, where I don't find it an inconveniance but a reasurance that the HW and SW will live up to expectations.
>I want to buy my hardware from the ones who sell me the best hardware at the lowest price. If they don't give me that I don't care if they're an "Amiga" company or if they're licensed.
Sure this would be great. I like discounts too. In fact, i've been known to clip a coupon or two. :) BUT, what hardware companys??? Where are you getting these PPC systems from? I want one too.
MAC? They sure as heck don't want AmigaOS on thier systems. They produce thier own OS and are as closed as can be.
bPlan? They want to sell linux boxes and use MorphOS's copy of AmigaOS 3.x too suck in a few Amiga people. If this wasen't the truth they would have sent a board to Hyperion and let the system be sold to Amiga users with a real AmigaOS running on it. Not some frankenstein hacked up kludge fakeing AOS3.1. The truth is, bPlan views the Amiga market as a place where they can meddle around and stir up the piss to make a few sales without haveing to do much more than spout a few promises. (sorry for my french)
Ok, i'd love it if Gateway had a PPC machine. Name anyone and i want them pushing a PPC solution. Give me a mass market. How do we do that? The problem is the big OEM's are so damn busy competeing over a single platform that they can't afford to switch over to marketing a PPC system too. They have spent thier lives building the wintel market and cant see anything else. The liscening agreement and distribution scheme wether good or bad is not even a concern to them. If it means one million boxes sold they would hire a dozen clowns to stand on thier heads and scream "Amiga Rulez The World" 'till thier ears bleed. ;)
But who is producing all this PPC HW you want to choose from? It just dosen't exist. So the packaging of the OS with the HW is NOT a problem to anyone but a pirate. But let's say, just for the sake of argument, that IBM created a PPC system that was zico compliant (if zico is even the standard anymore), but they didn't want to bundle the OS because of bad memorys of M$'s business practices. Don't you think if IBM approached Amiga that Amiga wouldn't bend over backwards to ship an OS solution for the hardware being offered them? Damn right they would. The fact that today all we can do is buy the OS packed up with hardware we wan't anyway OR buy the OS for hardware we already own is not a limitation to the markets growth.
So let's say i buy the AmigaOne from Eyetech and 6 months later a miracle happens and a company called lets say, Hewlett Packard Dell announces the dream machine. A G7 with more bells and whistles than you ever heard of and it's selling for $50! ( this is obviously hypothetical ;) ) What is to stop me from taking my AmigaOS CD over to the Hewlett Packard Dell machine and running the OS there? The bios, ok let's pop that out and stuff it in the new system, ok good, the OS is runing on my dream machine now. Excellent (Mr. Burns voice). But wait, it wont run on my old Eyetech system because i yanked the bios. So what do i do now, buy the OS with every system i want to run it on or bitch and moan on public boards that this is killing the market because im too cheap to buy it. You know, i really don't see a problem with bundleing an OS with the hardware so long as it's provided as an option the way Amiga is doing it. Amiga will do all they can to promote sales of thier OS and get in the way of piracy. They sure as heck won't slit thier own throat by making it easy for the pirate nor will they stifle competition on the HW scene by scareing off possible vendors with a license that's just too damn expensive to sign.
But just to be fair. If the OS was sold seperate and i had to slip in the bios chip myself, i wouldn't mind either. It's just one small step i have to take to get an Amiga. And secondly, haveing more than one avenue to purchase the OS i wan't will also allow for more competition. But do be fair to me and admit it's an inconveniance i shouldn't have to deal with and that it really gets up the pirates arse. ;)
This seems to come off a little hardlined.. I'm too tired to re-edit it all. Sorry if i burned you Seehund, or anyone else. Except the pirates of course. ;)
Ivan.
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I admit that I don't actually *know* how the situation will shake out, but I can certainly speculate. I mean, really, everyone else has. :-) Furthermore, many people seem to like numbered lists.
1> I'm "certain" that AmigaOS will be sold separately from motherboards. It looks like you'll have to have a dongle of some sort in order to run it, and it's that dongle which will only be sold bundled with the OS.
2> Yes, the OS will be bundled with motherboards that already have a ROM dongle installed. If it wasn't, then you could pirate the OS because you already have the dongle.
3> I "propose" that there will be a solution for motherboards which lack ROM sockets-- such as a USB thingie.
I don't have a crystal ball, but there's no other rational way for things to transpire. Which is also not fool-proof, since companies much bigger than Amiga Inc. have been stupid in the past. :-)
"Master" Mitch
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Although a dedicated pirate could no doubt copy the boot code and dupe the ROM's, unless this was to be done in bulk - which would be easy to spot and close down - the overheads involved versus buying the ROM would mean few people would be likely to do it. The situation is analagous to OS3.1/3.5/3.9 in that you had to have/buy 3.1 ROMs to run the OS, unless you go to extraordinary work-around lengths.
I don’t think Amiga Inc’s hardware ROM protection scheme would stop piracy.
It only takes one “cracked” version of the product to be spread around the world. Thanks largely to the Internet. Piracy groups are organized and structured more in the lines of WWII resistance cells.
I’m getting the feeling that Amiga Inc is underestimating the threat of piracy network.
Such hardware protection schemes did not stop the circumvention of DVD's hardware based protection schemes.
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Just want to clear a few things up, as a lot of the criticisms
here have been addressed by Ben Hermans on ANN aready.
1) Amiga aren't planning to charge for licensing
Get real. Of course there is a per board license fee payable to Amiga if the product is endorsed by them. Apart from the use of the name, by Amiga endorsing the product and certifying it as OS4+ compatible they are taking some considerable share of the responsibility of ensuring that it works properly. If it doesnt they will be jointly liable with the boards manufacturer and joined to the law suit. Thats what class actions are all about in the US at least.
Amiga (unless they are completely stupid) will want paying for this risk - and more than just that needed to pay their share of the product liability insurance premiums.
So my reading is that Eyetech have agreed to the fees, bplan have refused and are now moaning in public and Elbox and Matay are still thinking about it. I guess this makes the A1G3 even better value.
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so when the big one (OS5 or whatever) comes out with its hardware abstraction layer so basically any hardware goes, what happens then? Will we be in a position where the OS could theoretically run on a huge range of CPUs etc, but will actually only run on those with the ROM?
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Get real. Of course there is a per board license fee payable to Amiga if the product is endorsed by them. Apart from the use of the name, by Amiga endorsing the product and certifying it as OS4+ compatible they are taking some considerable share of the responsibility of ensuring that it works properly. If it doesnt they will be jointly liable with the boards manufacturer and joined to the law suit. Thats what class actions are all about in the US at least.
Well of course you didn't read the post regarding this on ANN and now you've spread your misinterpretation on both ANN and Amiga.org (I haven't checked Moobunny yet but it wouldn't suprise me if you've posted there as well). The hardware manufacturer will NOT have to pay any kind of license fee, the cost will be handed down to the user (included in the price of the product) and doesn't make an obsticle for companies like bPlan to have their product AmigaOS4 certified.
I don't know but, it almost seems like you're doing this on purpose in order to miscredit Amiga Inc. Please get your facts straight and stop this at once.
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Hello Ivan!
We seem to agree on a number of areas. Off hand i'd say,
1) We both like the licensing of HW. It's like a boingball sticker on the box saying buy this one it's what we had in mind when making the Amiga.
Yup.
The part I think is bad is that we can't buy any hardware that doesn't have that sticker to run a separately purchased OS on. Not to forget the fact that there are no "Amigas" anymore, neither should there be.
2) We think competition between hardware vendors is a good thing. Pushes out better quality and quicker release of designs.
Yes Siree!
But I think that the proposed compulsory licensing/bundling scheme will be a hindrance to competition and development, and delay or stop us Amiga OS users from getting the hardware we want.
3) We think there should be more hardware vendors pushing out Amiga boxes. (this should probably be #1 eh?)
Again I agree, if "Amiga boxes" means any Amiga OS-compatible PPC hardware.
4) Amiga needs to protect its OS from pirates.
Of course.
Although they need to weigh the degree of piracy antimeasures (will they be circumvented in a week or in a month?) against cost, hassle and freedom of choice for honest paying end-users and possibilities of market expansion. They seem to have forgotten that they are a software company.
There are countless of anti-piracy measures around, and if they insist on a hardware dongle-type solution, the USB dongle idea someone mentioned seems to be at least as secure as on-board mounted ROMs, inexpensive and could be easily installed (also by the most computer illiterate end-user who bought the OS) on any hardware, licensed or not, with a USB bus. That's just one idea.
5) Amiga Inc needs to hire a PR man. A web designer for that matter as well.
You can say that again!
There is incentive for them. Selling thier PPC systems to the Amiga market plain and simple. 1 more sale is 1 more sold box period. And it's free to that OEM to make that sale.
Yeah, that's the only incentive there can be, plus expecting to make a profit out of it all. I however can't see the great probablity of a hardware distributor to get themselves, their organisation and their hardware licensed, setting up a software support dept., installing special ROMs on part of their hardware and bundling an OS with that, just to reach a tiny market as the Amiga OS market currently is. This will reduce the chances of a larger Amiga OS market to be formed where this compulsory OS/hardware bundling/licensing would have a chance to work.
>not to lock out any other customers and the non-licensed market.
I don't see anyone being locked out. Even bPlan was offered a license by Amiga and we all know they never sent Amiga a dev board.
I mean we would be locked out from any non-licensed alternative since the licensing and OS bundling is compulsory for them to sell us hardware and for us to buy it.
BTW, is doesn't seem like anyone is offered a license. You'll have to apply for it yourself if you're interested.
You want the OS sold seperatly, where I don't find it an inconveniance but a reasurance that the HW and SW will live up to expectations.
I'd also find it a convenience. I'm not willing to be deprived of freedom of choice and competitive pricing by getting this kind of "compulsory convenience" though.
Sure this would be great. I like discounts too. In fact, i've been known to clip a coupon or two. :) BUT, what hardware companys??? Where are you getting these PPC systems from?
The point is that I don't know that anymore than you or Amiga Inc or anybody else do. I just don't want to rely on that any current or future hardware that might come along will have to be licensed and bundled with the OS and offered to me only by licensed distributors.
Since you brought it up, one concrete example is the Pegasos. Thomas Frieden @ Hyperion said that OS4 will be compatible with the Pegasos (with what is already known about the Pegasos you don't need a dev. board to say that). However, bplan are for some reason or other which I won't be speculating about in here apparently not willing to even apply for an Amiga license. Unless another distributor buys a bunch of Pegasos boards and modifies them to accept dongled ROMs and has/gets a license, we Amiga OS users just lost the Pegasos as a hardware alternative for reasons totally irrelevant to OS/hardware compatibility. If someone after all do the licensing routine, we'll have no choice but to buy the Pegasos from that/those licencee(s) only. Just like with any imaginable other compatible hardware. IMHO this sucks (http://www.ragnsells.se/gronavagen/groenaarbeten/10.jpg).
Don't you think if IBM approached Amiga that Amiga wouldn't bend over backwards to ship an OS solution for the hardware being offered them? Damn right they would.
Sure they would. But why would IBM have to apply for a license for this wondrous machine just to sell it to us Amiga nerds as well as the other markets where no such requirements exist? Why shouldn't Amiga/Hyperion just make the OS compatible to this machine as well (if any changes/additions in the OS are necessary), sell the OS separately from hardware like That Other consumer OS vendor does and rake in the profits? We should be able to buy it from the same distributors as others who buy that machine - in addition to licensed dealers if we so choose.
The bios, ok let's pop that out and stuff it in the new system, ok good, the OS is runing on my dream machine now.
Seeing that the HPDell is a modern (heck, it's not even made yet ;)) computer, there will probably not be any ROM socket in it, those things are old fashioned even today.
You know, i really don't see a problem with bundleing an OS with the hardware so long as it's provided as an option the way Amiga is doing it.
What option?
But just to be fair. If the OS was sold seperate and i had to slip in the bios chip myself, i wouldn't mind either. It's just one small step i have to take to get an Amiga. And secondly, haveing more than one avenue to purchase the OS i wan't will also allow for more competition. But do be fair to me and admit it's an inconveniance i shouldn't have to deal with and that it really gets up the pirates arse. ;)
Nope, you shouldn't have to deal with that. That's why I agree with you that licensing and OS/hardware bundling isn't Evil in itself and it removes that inconvenience you mention. I think it's only Evil when it's compulsory.
Sorry if i burned you Seehund
Not at all. I enjoy a sensible discussion, which I think this is, without flames and trolls for once. Thanks! I'm sorry too if I sounded abusive somewhere. :)
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Someone keeps on saying that they would like to get the OS and hardware sepreatly.
But what hardware? We Have the A1 and accel cards and the Peg (which isn't supported as of yet). I don't see many computer resellers selling PPC main boards of other types.
Someone also said about the Peg not being able to have the ROM, but does it not have a BIOS of some description? Could that not be used to the same effect somehow?
And don't Microsoft do a similar thing (note i said SIMILAR) If you go out and buy a PC (whole thing not Mainboard) you nearly always have to have the latest version of windows on it. Very few companies will sell a PC without Windows 'cause MS might withdraw thier OEM license (also that is the reason why alot of PC manufactures are not including a Win CD anymore just a "restore kit" 'cause that is what MS want as a Piracy prevention) Oh and let us not forget MS' new 'Product registration'. Update your HW more then 3times and you can't get into your machine! You then have to call MS to get your machine unlocked after proving that the machine is still yours!
After all Amiga INC like MS are only trying to protect thier income, which I think is only fair. If you spent all that time makeing a new bit of HW or SW, would you like it if someone copied it from a friend and then gave a copy to thier friend etc. etc. so from those two or more copies you didn't make any money? I wouldn't.
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I see this news from a slightly different perspective. I really don't care if a hardware dongle is needed for running OS4.0, and I think there must be some way for the other PPC solutions to implement similar protection without costly redesigns. For one, since the Shark boards are attached to a 1200 motherboard anyway, I don't see why they couldn't use the same technique as a Cyberstorm or Blizzard PPC and read data from the 3.1 Kickstart ROM.
My beef is that the AmigaOne has just one BIOS socket, just one. If we are forced to put a puny 512K unwriteable ROM in there, it compromises the potential of the board by keeping us from installing the *mother of all flash ROMs* instead. I think the ArticaS chipset can address an 8MB flash ROM...so that's what I want. I want a modern, writeable Kickstart, so Amigas can continue at least one hardware tradition that made them unique...not being completely tethered to a hard drive. Since we're talking about larger PowerPC code, we need a larger (possibly a much larger) flash ROM. If Eyetech is not willing to add any Amiga-only features to the AmigaOne, I thought they might at least push the hardware to its limits, and in the process perhaps evolve the industry in some small way. Instead, this ROM dongle seems to imply that since mundane, cookie-cutter motherboards are good enough for PC users, they're also good enough for us.
Todd
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"So where do Eyetech/Amiga Inc get off making people pay for something they don't necessarily want (ie. os4)? "
I don't quite understand why people would buy an AmigaOne without expecting that OS 4.0 was going to be a part of the bundle, even if you signed up for the developer board. Personally, I've always wanted OS 4.0 and looked at the ability to run LinuxPPC as a bonus.
Looks like Eyetech or other companies may end up selling PPC boards to people who don't want the Amiga OS. I really see this as a move to reduce piracy and not a limitation to which hardware you can run OS 4.x on. I think the Pegasos supporters are the ones that are upset since bPlan will have to deal with Amiga Inc. to get the validation. It just won't be a matter of getting a pirated (or legal) copy of OS 4.x and running it on your Pegasos board.
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Eyetech and AI have completely missed the point here... I SHOULD be allowed to build my own machine to my own specs (like any windowze junk) and run WHATEVER OS I see fit....
I have no problem buying the OS, I just feel like i'm being treated like a child and pirate to boot whilst being dictated to about what hardware spec I am entitled to...
Eyetech and AI can wait for my business until they calm down and join the real computing world.. I love Amiga as much as any bugger else, but i'm not in that much of a rush to ditch a windows platform anymore... I can wait...
Regards
Skyraker
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Interesting. What some of you fail to realize:
1) There is no "PPC market". There is the "Apple market" and there may one day be a new "Amiga market" and there are the IBM servers, but PPC hardware is not commodity hardware, nor do Apple or Amiga want it to be. Commodity PPC hardware would eat into Apple's source of income -hardware. Amiga knows this is true for them as well - but because of brand licensing, so they are making sure that anyone who wants AmigaOS to run on their hardware has to go through Amiga. The OS is Amiga's product, so it is their platform, and they get to decide who gets to run their OS on their hardware.
2) The user's "choice" ends where it eats into the company's bottom line. You say "I should be able to choose whatever hardware I want to run OS4". No, you shouldn't. It's not your product or your IP or your image/rep. It's Amiga Inc.'s, and they get to decide how their product is sold, just like Apple. If Apple didn't control their product so tightly, they'd be out of business, not more popular as some of you seem to imply Amiga would be if they just let any old hardware maker say their product can run AmigaOS.
3) Amiga is NOT A SOFTWARE COMPANY!!! THEY ARE A LICENSING COMPANY. They make their money from selling the brand name "Amiga" and the rights to Amiga IP to other companies. Either they get a cut of your sales, or you don't get to use the name Amiga in relation to your product, nor do you get to sell a product that uses their IP (which is what Amiga is apparently accusing MorphOS of trying to do).
4) What does it matter? There aren't enough consumers out there to buy any of these products enough to support all these companies. Amiga knows this, so they are trying to tighten the grip so they can squeeze the most returns out of this effort. Frankly, if all they sell is 5,000 machines, they won't last long.
The issue is really that the ones complaining most about this are more interested in commodity PPC hardware than they are in AmigaOS4. PPC MB's will NEVER NEVER EVER be as cheap or accessible as Intel/AMD's. The reason that x86 proliferated was not because of OS choices, but because of MS Windows and the fact that the computer industry is driven by bulk corporate desktop sales, so unless corporations are going to buy bulk loads of generic PPC motherboards over the next 10 years to run verisons of Linux not nearly as common as the x86 counterparts, then there will not be PPC commodity hardware. The idea of the Zico spec was not to "run AOS4 on any PPC motherboard", it was to say "if you have a motherboard that conforms to this spec, if you sign a deal with us we will allow AOS4 to run on it". That was always the plan, IMO.
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The issue is really that the ones complaining most about this are more interested in commodity PPC hardware than they are in AmigaOS4. PPC MB's will NEVER NEVER EVER be as cheap or accessible as Intel/AMD's. The reason that x86 proliferated was not because of OS choices, but because of MS Windows and the fact that the computer industry is driven by bulk corporate desktop sales, so unless corporations are going to buy bulk loads of generic PPC motherboards over the next 10 years to run verisons of Linux not nearly as common as the x86 counterparts, then there will not be PPC commodity hardware. The idea of the Zico spec was not to "run AOS4 on any PPC motherboard", it was to say "if you have a motherboard that conforms to this spec, if you sign a deal with us we will allow AOS4 to run on it". That was always the plan, IMO.
Imagine if we have a PPC based commodity hardware market and Amiga Inc seating on top of it like the MS for x86 market (but without anti-completive tactics)...
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Seehund,
You keep on comming back to this passage from the Exec Update:
"As a result, AmigaOS4 and all future versions will ship only on those hardware products to which Amiga Inc has specifically granted a license after reviewing the capabilities of both the solution provider and their product."
You say that AI will only ship the OS with the HW.... It doesn't directly say that. It say ON hardware that AI approve not WITH.
As we all know SW runs ON HW, which I belive is what Bill means.
But I agree that the choice of wording is unclear at best.
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Anonymous wrote:
But what hardware? We Have the A1 and accel cards and the Peg (which isn't supported as of yet). I don't see many computer resellers selling PPC main boards of other types.
Exactly. See what I think about that part in my reply to Ivan above: The point is that I don't know that anymore than you or Amiga Inc or anybody else do. I just don't want to rely on that any current or future hardware that might come along will have to be licensed and bundled with the OS and offered to me only by licensed distributors.
And so on. Just scroll up and read the rest.
Someone also said about the Peg not being able to have the ROM, but does it not have a BIOS of some description? Could that not be used to the same effect somehow?
According to what Amiga Inc. has said only pirates will be able to get a copied ROM image and flash it on to the BIOS of modern computers which don't and won't use ROM sockets. We who want to buy the OS can't do that.
And don't Microsoft do a similar thing (note i said SIMILAR) If you go out and buy a PC (whole thing not Mainboard) you nearly always have to have the latest version of windows on it.
Yes, but the similarities aren't that big since you are still allowed to buy hardware without Windows and buy Windows separately. I'm sure MS would love to force every Windows-compatible hardware distributor to bundle Windows if they could get away with it.
Oh and let us not forget MS' new 'Product registration'. Update your HW more then 3times and you can't get into your machine! You then have to call MS to get your machine unlocked after proving that the machine is still yours!
I would personally prefer that strategy compared to compulsory OS/hardware bundling and only being able to buy licensed hardware. And that's just one of many, many other anti-piracy measures already around.
After all Amiga INC like MS are only trying to protect thier income, which I think is only fair.
At least MS only care about their own product, the OS. Amiga has nothing to do with my hardware and from whom I buy that hardware.
If The Rest Of The World hates Microsoft for bundling a browser with the OS, what will they think of Amiga Inc's bundling?
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theTAO,
Please allow me to vehemently disagree! ;)
I think the ArticaS chipset can address an 8MB flash ROM...so that's what I want.
Don't think about the Articia S chipset. Don't think about the A1G3-SE. It's just hardware. There is no "Amiga". There's just hardware, and if Amiga OS is or will be compatible with the hardware I think we should be allowed to buy that hardware from whomever we want and buy Amiga OS separately if the hardware distributor we choose doesn't sell it with their hardware.
I want a modern, writeable Kickstart, so Amigas can continue at least one hardware tradition that made them unique...not being completely tethered to a hard drive.
There are no Amigas, and I sincerely hope that nobody is planning to make Amigas.
If Eyetech is not willing to add any Amiga-only features to the AmigaOne, I thought they might at least push the hardware to its limits, and in the process perhaps evolve the industry in some small way.
Eyetech knows there are no Amigas. They don't design or make any Amigas. They distribute a POP motherboard.
Instead, this ROM dongle seems to imply that since mundane, cookie-cutter motherboards are good enough for PC users, they're also good enough for us.
Hell yes, they're good enough for me at least! I don't want anyone to start making "Amigas" like the closed proprietary designs from one single company, a.k.a. "classic Amigas". We who want to run Amiga OS haven't seen any new computers to run that OS on for 10 years because of that. People who are happy with closed proprietary hardware made by and delivered from one single company buy Macs today. Except for Apple and Macs this model is dead, buried and decomposed in the personal computer market and I hope it stays that way.
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Anonymous wrote:
1) There is no "PPC market". There is the "Apple market" and there may one day be a new "Amiga market" and there are the IBM servers, but PPC hardware is not commodity hardware, nor do Apple or Amiga want it to be. Commodity PPC hardware would eat into Apple's source of income -hardware.
There is the POP platform, which e.g. the A1G3-SE and its Taiwanese cousins plus the Pegasos are based upon, and nobody knows what the future holds. I can understand why Apple would try to stop a commodity PPC hardware market and development since they make their own machines, but Apple's OS only runs on Apple hardware anyway.
Apple released their report for the second quarter of 2002 yesterday. They sold 813,000 Macs in Q2/02 alone! They can afford relying on a bundled hardware/OS/software solution and they could hypothetically be harmed by commodity PPC hardware (but I don't think a prospective Mac user would build his own computer and install something like Linux or Amiga OS for that matter himself).
Amiga knows this is true for them as well - but because of brand licensing, so they are making sure that anyone who wants AmigaOS to run on their hardware has to go through Amiga.
If Amiga didn't try to play in the hardware market but concentrated on selling their OS in as big numbers as possible, it wouldn't even be possible for this to be true for them as well. They don't have any hardware, and they rely on licensees coming along asking them to make the hardware of the licensees into Amiga Inc's hardware. If this is not despicable in the perspective of people who want to use Amiga OS on the best and cheapest hardware available, it's at least incredibly stupid and FUBARed.
The OS is Amiga's product, so it is their platform, and they get to decide who gets to run their OS on their hardware.
"Their" hardware? Well, it seems like Amiga Inc. are trying to make the hardware of others into "their" by compulsory licensing, but I don't see why anybody would be interested in that, given the tiny Amiga market and no chance to profits.
Of course the OS is Amiga's/Hyperion's product, and it's Amiga's ("after consultation with our partners, developers,..." Bah!) decision. I just think it's an abhorrent and counterproductive decision.
You say "I should be able to choose whatever hardware I want to run OS4". No, you shouldn't.
OK, "I ought to be able to choose whatever hardware I want to run OS4, if only Amiga Inc. had any business sense and respect for their customers and didn't think they were Apple or that this was 1985".
If Apple didn't control their product so tightly, they'd be out of business, not more popular as some of you seem to imply Amiga would be if they just let any old hardware maker say their product can run AmigaOS.
The difference between Apple and Amiga is that the latter do not make their own hardware and their OS doesn't run exclusively on their own hardware, they think that other companies should modify their hardware and in return get a license to sell Amiga OS so they as licensees not only get a competitive edge over unlicensed hardware distributors but totally remove them from the competition.
Apple are still in business and earn money from their closed OS/hardware packages because they didn't stop updating their hardware in 1992, and they have a large enough piece of the market to be able to keep using that business model.
According to Ben Hermans, OS4 is aimed at current Amiga users and whatever other few enthusiasts there may be (not, as the exec. update implies, make Amiga OS king of the desktop world). If they aren't trying to take on Apple, then they shouldn't try to compete in their market. If they are pretending to be Apple, they're fscked.
Nothing would be contradicting Amiga to sell distributors licenses for "certified" hardware and hardware/OS bundles if Amiga at the same time offered OS4 for sale separately to us who don't care whether our identical hardware is labelled "made for Amiga OS", or us who don't care whether our hardware dealer once sold A1200's and C-1084's.
Amiga is NOT A SOFTWARE COMPANY!!! THEY ARE A LICENSING COMPANY. They make their money from selling the brand name "Amiga" and the rights to Amiga IP to other companies.
In that case, why not be happy with selling Hyperion's OS to anyone who's interested and earning money on licensing the Amiga IP and "Amiga OS" trademark to Hyperion, if that's an accurate description of what's happening?
I don't understand why any other hardware distributors than old Amiga-related companies like Eyetech (who even apparently still are "partners" with Amiga Inc) and the couple of others in negotiations would be interested in conforming to Amiga Inc's licensing terms and licensing the whole Amiga package to reach and compete in the tiny Amiga market?
Either they get a cut of your sales, or you don't get to use the name Amiga in relation to your product, nor do you get to sell a product that uses their IP
And that punishes us who may want to buy our hardware elsewhere. Hardware shouldn't be using IP from an OS anyway. Yeeees, it's Amiga Inc's (and their "partners'") decision, but that doesn't stop me from thinking it's bad, unless I have to be a licensee to think of Amiga OS compatible hardware.
What does it matter? There aren't enough consumers out there to buy any of these products enough to support all these companies. Amiga knows this, so they are trying to tighten the grip so they can squeeze the most returns out of this effort. Frankly, if all they sell is 5,000 machines, they won't last long.
If we could buy the OS separately, then we Amiga OS users would be an addition to the market currently constituted by Linux/BSD/whatever users. When we have to buy the OS together with modified licensed hardware, we are a microscopic market of our own.
Sure the current licensee(s) could probably sell a couple of thousand modified POP motherboards with OS4 bundled for a year or so. Then the well is dry.
The issue is really that the ones complaining most about this are more interested in commodity PPC hardware than they are in AmigaOS4.
Seeing that the major new feature of OS4 is that it's OS3.x ported to PPC, I am personally very interested in PPC hardware (and maybe even more than OS4 in itself - it doesn't do very much on its own), regardless if it's "commodity", sold from licensed dealers bundled with the OS or sold from unlicensed dealers like today. I just want to choose for myself from where I buy what ought to be my hardware.
PPC MB's will NEVER NEVER EVER be as cheap or accessible as Intel/AMD's.
Of course not. But OS4 took the PPC path (some say "unfortunately"), so there we are.
It surely won't help the PPC market if Amiga OS compatible hardware will be a separate and strictly controlled market on its own.
The idea of the Zico spec was not to "run AOS4 on any PPC motherboard", it was to say "if you have a motherboard that conforms to this spec, if you sign a deal with us we will allow AOS4 to run on it".
That the Zico "spec" is a pathetic joke has only added to the confusion. Any personal computer, regardless of CPU and architecture, made in the last 5 years is "Zico compliant". The P.O.S. Dell from 1999 I'm typing this on would be Zico compliant if I had a Firewire card and a "next generation" gfx card from Matrox in it.
The Zico "specification". (http://www.amiga.com/products/one/specs.php)
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Anonymous,
You say that AI will only ship the OS with the HW.... It doesn't directly say that. It say ON hardware that AI approve not WITH.
As we all know SW runs ON HW, which I belive is what Bill means.
I don't think BIll would feel the need to mention that software runs on hardware.
But what in "the AmigaOS only being available to licensed solution providers for the shipping of combined hardware and software solutions" (my emphasis) leaves room for doubt regarding compulsory bundling of OS and hardware, and the OS only being available that way from licensed "solution providers"?
And: "The only exclusion to this policy is a temporary measure to support the community members who have invested heavily in existing PPC accelerators"
And in context of all this and the quote you provided: "we will require, as part of the licence conditions, that a copy of Amiga OS is purchased with all boards sold that are capable of running it"
If they really mean "you can buy our OS separately and hardware from anyone you like, but we will also let hardware distributors who are interested get a license from us to provide OS/hardware bundles", then that's the most unclear choice of wording since "WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH" in Orwell's "1984".
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hell seehund,
If you are so against AmigaINC and thier stratagies then why do you bother?
Anyone who wants the AmigaONE for using Amiga programs seems to have no problem with the idea of getting the OS with the MB. The only people who seem to have a problem with this idea is the peple who want to use it for other OS's ie Linux (although why when x86 solutions are far cheaper)
You say you that MS is only protecting it's own product, but so is AI, surely you can see that. By making sure that you can only use OS4 on approved HW you can make sure that piracy is at a minimum. Not to mention the fact that approved HW and SW solutions normally mean that the machine is far more stable as all the programs have to conform to the correct standards and be OS legal.
I for one have no problem getting the OS and MB together as I suspect a majority of Amiga users don't mind either. We are simply happy that the Amiga is comming back on some resonably decent hardware.
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Jesus Christ on a Bicycle!
Anonymous wrote:
If you are so against AmigaINC and thier stratagies then why do you bother?
I'm not against Amiga Inc. (only moron trolls find factions where there shouldn't be any and take sides for or against companies and individuals merely based on their names), but I'm against their strategies and methods in this case. I bother because I'd like to buy Amiga OS and since I liked previous versions of the Amiga OS I have hopes that OS4 will be good. I was hoping we'd no longer be tied to only specific hardware from (a) specific compan(y|ies), since Amiga Inc. has fsck all to do with hardware.
Anyone who wants the AmigaONE for using Amiga programs seems to have no problem with the idea of getting the OS with the MB.
Of course they don't! The A1G3-SE is just one piece of hardware only available from one specific distributor. Why on earth would somebody planning to run OS4 have a problem with the OS coming bundled in that one specific case?
Maybe this could be the last time I'll have to repeat this in this thread: There is no "Amiga". Nobody makes Amigas. Nobody will be making Amigas. The A1G3-SE is irrelevant to the points I'm trying to make. It should be just yet another piece of hardware from just yet another distributor.
The only people who seem to have a problem with this idea is the peple who want to use it for other OS's ie Linux (although why when x86 solutions are far cheaper)
Did you really read the executive update? Did you read Alan Redhouse's and Ben Herman's "clarifications"? Did you read the posts in this very thread of the user you're replying to?
Why the fsck would non-AmigaOS users have a problem with this? They can buy whatever hardware compatible with their OS they bloody well want. They can even buy "Amiga licensed" hardware bundled with Amiga OS and run another OS on if they were insane and would like to pay more for their hardware. We who want AmigaOS can't choose our own hardware and whom we will buy it from. That's the problem.
You say you that MS is only protecting it's own product, but so is AI, surely you can see that.
Of course I can see that. AI just chose a completely brain-dead solution to the piracy problem, which will hurt us who want to buy Amiga OS, us who will have to buy only licensed hardware and the PPC market and development rate, and ultimately Amiga Inc. The pirates will circumvent a silly ROM protection anyway, if they'll bother with a doomed tiny market at all.
Not to mention the fact that approved HW and SW solutions normally mean that the machine is far more stable as all the programs have to conform to the correct standards and be OS legal.
If you had read my posts you'd have seen that I agree that this would be fine and dandy. Compulsory licensing and compulsory OS/hardware bundling is NOT.
If there are two identical motherboards available from
1. A licensed distributor, bundled with the OS
and
2. Everybody else
then I would go for the "everybody else" category and buy my OS separately if that meant it would be cheaper and if I hadn't had that option taken away from me by AI.
If I wanted guaranteed support and whatever other advantages I might get from the licensed dealer and if cost was no concern for me I'd buy it from him.
The thing is that now I have only the licensed dealer to "choose" from, and if there's no licensed dealer offering this motherboard I can't get the hardware I want at all.
I for one have no problem getting the OS and MB together as I suspect a majority of Amiga users don't mind either. We are simply happy that the Amiga is comming back on some resonably decent hardware.
"The Amiga" isn't coming back, thank God! The Amiga OS is updated and ported to run on PPC hardware.
I and a majority of Amiga OS users would have no problem buying the OS together with the hardware. I just don't want to be restricted to the hardware and distributors AI dictates.
*sigh*
Sorry for any harsh tone above, but it's annoying to repeatedly reply to someone who clearly hasn't tried to comprehend what was written previously in the thread, and having to repeat yourself. Well, that someone being anonymous doesn't help either...
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Seehund,
I for one see your point. Although it does sound as if AI will only be selling the OS with the HW, at first that shouldn't be a problem, after all we only really have the AOne or PEG and we all need the OS when we get the motherboard. But what if I decide to, say in a year or so time, upgrade my motherboard with the latest G4/G5 or whatever...
Am I going to have to get another copy of the OS with my new motherboard? :-o Does seem silly if I already have a legal copy of it when I get my A1!!
Maybe I should wait to see if I can walk b4 I start to run, but I do think that we need to clarify if a new updated AOne (ATwo?! LOL) comes out if we will be forced into getting the latest OS with it, or if we can simply re-use our current legal copy of OS4.0 :-?
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after all we only really have the AOne or PEG and we all need the OS when we get the motherboard.
Well some people (like me) may want to try that other os first
and may decide later to put AOS4 on it as dual-boot.
BtW: I don't believe any of this legal-FUD and you should
remember that Ben H. is cleary advocatings AIncs pointofview.
Lawyers for the other side may have a different one.
(thats why courts and judges are needed in a legal system).
I really hope (but don't believe) this "war" would be fought over
features, reliablity and apps.