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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: AmiGod on April 13, 2002, 04:50:09 AM
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It's April 12th, 2002, and Bill McEwen has a new Executive Update up and readable on Amiga Inc's web site. Happy reading! (http://www.amiga.com/corporate/041202-mcewen.shtml)
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Cool, but this realy isnt new :( - i was hoping for screen shots at the bottom of the page :}...
O well, nice to see another update from Amiga Inc. Nice to see they in someway are going to try to garentee quality.
I hope this ROM thing really works too. It sounds like their binding the OS to expensive almost-custome hardware, hopfuly not so.
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So much for an open platform and the ideals of the past Amiga heritage (hardware tinkering) if you can't get AmigaOS 4.x except by buying it through them. I was SO hoping Wayne's idea of a 1 Ghz G4 would have been possible. Guess they've been so lean for so long that greed has taken over.
Strike one purchase and any interest in the future Amiga off the list for me.
- Ryan
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Hello fellow anon,
I gotta say I agree here. Sounds like they got so few orders for AmigaOne boards that they're trying to figure out a way to force everyone to upgrade so they can get rid of them. I wouldn't buy a first gen A1 anyway because I'm sure they'll come either bare (socketed) or with the G4 in future runs.
Christophe
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Before more idiots post stupidity (Rodney excluded), please note that:
This is corporate blaha, not concerning the Amiga community, it's aimed towards developers and re-sellers. Please ignore and forget.
One could question the sanity in posting this as an "Executive Update" since those are usually meant for the Amiga community.
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Not being funny, but did you actually *read* the update.
You could never buy AmigaOS without owning one of their computers.
Amiga **are** providing a version of OS4 for the oldest miachines that
are capable of running it (that's the ones that have PPC cards).
Who's to say there won't be a 1GHz G4 board sometime soon? Elbox,
Matay and Eyetech all have PPC systems in the works. Surely one of
them will make a top line version soon enough. Besides, any of them
will be a hell of a lot faster than we're used to.
You can't seriously expect them to write a 68k OS can you? It'd be
seriously slow, and if you were running it on an A500 it'd be hard
pushed to do what 3.9 does now. If you're wanting to run it on
Amithlon, well that's a tricky one. I don't think a x86 system is a
good idea, but it's a very complicated (and contentious) issue.
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So much for an open platform and the ideals of the past Amiga heritage (hardware tinkering) if you can't get AmigaOS 4.x except by buying it through them.
Who EVER said that the AmigaOS4 would be open platform?
AmigaOS4 is a continuation of the AmigaOS hence version 4.
I think you are confusing it with AmigaDE which is already multi platform.
Valan
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As far as i can tell, the platform is still Open, and well documented. This is good because it'll alow Amiga Inc to control the copywrite of AmigaOS as well as let developers port their Operating Systems to the platform easily, unlike Apple hardare.
Having a custom ROM does sound as if it could just be adding custome hardware. But as i understand, this isnt a big part. It just replaced the OpenBIOS and this isnt used by the operating system. So it shouldnt have an effect on porting of OSes or anything of the kind!
So its still very open. Anyone can make an AmigaOne machine, they just have to pass Amiga Inc Quality Checks. - Kinda like an ISO Quality Audit, only an "Ami Quality Audit" :).
I dont think its going to be a big deal. If it ensures quality with AmigaOS, good one em :). If this improves performance of AmigaOS, good on em :)...
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There hasn't been any mention about some of the first consumers that financially assisted amiga Inc. by purchasing the party pack. We were promised either a discount on future hardware or OS4 for free. I hope the deal is still on.
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>Quality Assurance
What about ISO-900X, Sigma-Six etc?
Does AMIGA Inc follow the above standards?
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Bill McEwen wrote:
... the AmigaOS only being available to licensed solution providers for the shipping of combined hardware and software solutions.
Bugger.
As a result, AmigaOS4 and all future versions will ship only on those hardware products to which Amiga Inc has specifically granted a license ...
Bugger.
Currently this hardware comprises:
* Eyetech's AmigaOne series of PPC motherboards
So why don't they delete the "Amiga One" specs from their site, as this from now on seems to be merely an Eyetech trademark?
In the case of newly available hardware, including the Eyetech, Elbox and Matay products above, the licence requires that OS4-specific extensions are included in the hardware's boot ROM as an anti-piracy measure.
Bugger.
For hardware which is not capable of being used in conjunction with Amiga WB 3.1 (such as the AmigaOne) we will require, as part of the licence conditions, that a copy of Amiga OS is purchased with all boards sold that are capable of running it.
Bugger.
Bugger, crap, f*ck, $#@!, bloody hell!
I can only think monosyllabically today.
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Looks like no Amiga OS 4.0 on Pegeasos.
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This, to me, is a very straight forward press release. If you want to have Amiga approval, you have to apply for it.
Typical really, that in 'our' community, it has to be turned into such a big issue. One minute, Amiga isn't (allegedly) interested in the desktop any more, then, as soon as they try to protect it via a minimal amount of quality control, all the ejit trolls come marching outa their caves claiming all sorts of nonsense, PAH! (if you don't know what I'm on about, go and look at the thread over at ann.lu - actually, second thoughts, don't bother).
Anyone with at least half a brain, would see that ANY company, in ANY industry, has to maintain a quality control system, whether it's through 1st party (their own), or 3rd party (anyone associated) products. Anyone in the UK or Europe who's had to suffer the ISO9002 stuff, would KNOW what approval systems are all about. This is a walk in the park in comparison.
There's no hidden agenda here, if you go to Amiga with a solid business plan, an approveable product, it ain't gonna be hard to get an 'Amiga Approved' stamped on your resume. All this is mainly about protecting YOU, the consumer.
After all, what would you prefer: buying a product from an established RELIABLE company, or an 'allegedly' compatable product, from some back street merchant? The choice is yours.
-john
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I think there is no agreement with bplan and that's why it is not listed.
IMO, that announcement mainly says that you will need to have approved A1200/A3000/A4000/A1.5ROM/nonamePPCboardROM to be able to run the OS, just to prevent piracy. Am I mistaken?
(not sure if I can post, amiga.org sucks with Opera6 more than before)
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This is like Apple now...
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jd997uk,
If people are complaining about the existence of QA and certifications, then fine, maybe they are eejit trolls. Certification is A Good Thing, but not when it's compulsory and works against the user.
However, most of the more sane people complaining do so because of the exclusive and compulsory bonding of AmigaOS to approved hardware and dealers.
I want to buy any hardware I want from whomever I want with or without whatever OS I want whenever I want.
It's interesting to see the A1-G3SE board being approved, when what eventually will be offered is a completely different product from what was originally offered and officially "Amiga One" certified. There still are no final consumer/production A1G3-SE boards in existence (not offered by Eyetech and labelled A1-G3SE anyways), yet they are listed as certified hardware.
Amiga Inc. are also "in negotiation" with possible manufacturers of other hypothetical hardware (Elbox, Matay, Merlancia) which may or may not ever have been in the same room as a beta copy of AmigaOS4.
But where is the Pegasos? Oh yes, that's right, you have to bundle every single motherboard/computer you sell with a copy of AmigaOS4!
Hardware manufacturer "X" might once have been looking forward to get a "Amiga Certified" sticker on their "Y" PPC rack server ("great, we just got an expanded market, hello Amigans"), but now that sticker is something to avoid because they wouldn't want to bundle AmigaOS and raise the price by $100. That is unless they decide to produce a separate, smaller and more expensive batch of "Amiga Compatible" hardware. Are you already owning and using PPC hardware which could be AmigaOS compatible? Tough luck, you've got to wait until it's certified by Amiga Inc. and then you've got to buy a second machine with the OS bundled.
And some people complain over that it's hard to find a PC without a Microsoft OS bundled... At least they still have the choice to build their own computers.
The AmigaOS BIOS extension idea is idiotic to begin with, and it sinks to comatose levels with this compulsory OS/hardware bundling.
Hey, Amiga Inc. The 1980's and Apple are on the phone. They want their marketing ideas back.
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This bundling crap is nonsense. When was it ever that you couldn't buy an AmigaOS without hardware? I know for a fact that flavors of OS3.0/3.1 sold bundled with ROMs for A500-2000's and 1200/4000's... Only selling the OS with hardware is going to kill it. Everytime we upgrade we are going to have to buy a new license? :-? So I buy a first gen A1, along with OS4...then I want to upgrade, I can't take my ROM from the first gen to the second and use my OS CD's again? What a load. Way to go Amiga, lock into proprietary hardware again. :-(
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I think there is no agreement with bplan and that's why it is not listed.
The message here is that as you say, you will need an official Amiga ROM to run OS4. So, for the A1G3SE, it'll have it's BIOS 'flashed' with extensions to enable it, and I suppose for Cyberstorm/Blizzard PPC owners, the OS will need the 3.1 ROMs to boot. No big deal really, although many will make a big issue out of it.
BPlan, at this time do not appear to have contacted Amiga Inc with any regard as to running OS4 on the Pegasos. Fair enough, that's their perogative.
All that Amiga Inc have done is to re-iterate their statement that ONLY Amiga approved HW can legally run Amiga OS, whether natively, or through emulation. Anyone out ther who's going to buy a Pegasos might want to ask BPlan the question on OS4 compatability. If enough people ask, they might actually approach Amiga Inc and enter into an agreement - who knows?
-john
ps. do not take this as an anti BPlan/MorphOS rant, I've no reason to have any issues against either of them. But it *appears* that they are a single entity (ie they are joined at the hip), so, since the HW has it's own OS, there would not be a reason for BPlan to bother entering an agreement with Amiga Inc for an official OS4 port.
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This bundling crap is nonsense. When was it ever that you couldn't buy an AmigaOS without hardware? I know for a fact that flavors of OS3.0/3.1 sold bundled with ROMs for A500-2000's and 1200/4000's... Only selling the OS with hardware is going to kill it. Everytime we upgrade we are going to have to buy a new license? So I buy a first gen A1, along with OS4...then I want to upgrade, I can't take my ROM from the first gen to the second and use my OS CD's again? What a load. Way to go Amiga, lock into proprietary hardware again.
Eh? What bundling ? If you want to buy an A1G3SE without OS4, go ahead. All that's going to happen is that any officially endorsed product will be *enabled* to run OS4.x
So if you upgrade to (say) a G4 board that has been endorsed, there's no reason for the OS not to work.
Sheesh, some people.
-john
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If you want to buy an A1G3SE without OS4, go ahead. All that's going to happen is that any officially endorsed product will be *enabled* to run OS4.x
Every HW with the "enable AOS4 ROM" will have to be bundled with
AOS4 and a licence is to be paid.
If Joe-MOS buys a Pegasos this summer he doesn't want to pay AInc.
If by the end of the year he decides that AOS4 is the better choice he
won't be able to buy it for his Pegasos.
So yes AInc is going the Apple road.
BPlan/MOS seem to go it too.
This way the community will be splitted and its very likely both sides
will fail.
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Perhaps AMIGA Inc should explain:
What if a user want to buy AMIGA ONE motherboard just for running Linux, without buying AMIGA OS and AMIGA ROM? Is this possible?
If the user want to try AMIGA OS later, can the user buy the latest version of AMIGA OS (with AMIGA ROM)?
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Oddly enough i bought AmigaOS 3.1 with, believe
it or not, a ROM CHIP!!! Yes! Really a ROM! It
plugged right in! I couldnt believe it!
Here comes the pirates flames.. Awe i can't pirate
a copy of OS4 from some anon ftp for my system and
have it run anymore. Damn, them greedy bastards.
It almost sounds like Brecht over at Ann.lu...
WHAT? FIRST NO 486 OS AND NOW I HAVE TO BUY IT!?
NO WAY!! THATS SO UNFAIR!!!
I only have one thing to say, suffer. :) And please
suffer in public with many flames and a great deal
of whineing so i can enjoy it all the more.
Everyone who owns PPC Amiga's are going to have OS4.
Anyone who buys a AmigaOne or future incarnations
will have OS4 and be able to run future versions of
the OS. The only ones i see here not gaining
anything is the bPlan group who sadly are being
held back by Ralph Schmidt who won't allow OS4 on
Pegasos because he wants to own and control the
whole show. Hard luck.
Sorry for the Pegasos system. Really. I kind of
liked it and it was on my "might buy one" list. No
longer. AmigaOne is the system i'm buying period.
It seems they blew it by not coming to terms with
Ainc.
Oh btw, this dosnt stop Ainc from bundling a CD
with a ROM to run OS4 that future Pegasos owners
can't purchase. But, you WILL have to pay for the
OS. Tough life aint it? No OS4 without buying it.
My heart bleeds. (no it really dosen't) :)
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AInc are becoming a real business and not just some little pseudo-amateur setup. First they eliminate the threat that XL posed, now they're doing the same to the pegasos. Well, thats just the way big business works. You have to be ruthless.
In my opinion, this move has just killed the pegasos project. There were many who liked the look of the pegasos hardware but wanted OS4 who will now have to buy A1 or Shark hardware. As for the actual future of the PegasOS (OS) - ah, well figure it out yourself. There aren't enough existing Amiga users to support the current market, so I don't see how less than a third of this market could survive on its own. Looks like there is a reason for RS's vicious paranoia after all.
Remember, this is my opinion and not the truth. Feel free to believe it or not, or try to convince me otherwise with good evidence. Flames from anonymous users will simply be ignored. Or made fun of. Preferably the latter. ;-)
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Hi Ivan
Its not about buying AOS4 but about paying a licence on HW that has nothing
to do with AInc. The price for a full AOS4 on CSPPC is ~100Euro according
to Vesalia. That price would be fair for the Pegasos-version.
AInc didn't help developing the Pegasos and they didn't help the
Taiwanese developing the TeronCX/Agimmesomenumbers.
Eyetech decided to sell their product under the AOne name and therefore
have to pay $xxx to AInc.
BPlan decided to sell their board mainly to industrial costumers and a few
Amiga-fans. They don't want/need the AOne-name so why should they pay?
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so I don't see how less than a third of this market could survive on its own
So you really think it would be more than 33% of the current user-base
that gone buy a A1/AOS4 ?
I think you are in for a suprise.
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Yes, you will be able to buy a linux-only (actually non Amiga OS) board, and subsequently buy the OS4+ROM upgrade package.
The upgraded ROM will still have all its open firmware code intact so you will still be able to run Linux etc
Alan
Eyetech
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This, to me, is a very straight forward press release. If you want to have Amiga approval, you have to apply for it.
Typical really, that in 'our' community, it has to be turned into such a big issue. One minute, Amiga isn't (allegedly) interested in the desktop any more, then, as soon as they try to protect it via a minimal amount of quality control, all the ejit trolls come marching outa their caves claiming all sorts of nonsense, PAH! (if you don't know what I'm on about, go and look at the thread over at ann.lu - actually, second thoughts, don't bother).
Anyone with at least half a brain, would see that ANY company, in ANY industry, has to maintain a quality control system, whether it's through 1st party (their own), or 3rd party (anyone associated) products. Anyone in the UK or Europe who's had to suffer the ISO9002 stuff, would KNOW what approval systems are all about. This is a walk in the park in comparison.
There's no hidden agenda here, if you go to Amiga with a solid business plan, an approveable product, it ain't gonna be hard to get an 'Amiga Approved' stamped on your resume. All this is mainly about protecting YOU, the consumer.
After all, what would you prefer: buying a product from an established RELIABLE company, or an 'allegedly' compatable product, from some back street merchant? The choice is yours.
-john
I also feel this is a good idea. When AmigaOS comes out with some server type OS or one that is aim at the corporate enterprise, quality assurance is going to be a big thing. Companies are going to want the performance of their systems garenteed, and i think they are now waking up to this. Or, atleast they will when they realise they can get these garrentees with AmigaOS.
This isnt going to restrict the distribtution of AmigaOS. Although It seems to me that it may now, be hard to run AmigaOS on the same hardware that Macs run on, being they both need ROMs now, right? And if other Operating Systems take a similar approach it may make it hard to duel boot!
MS are big on trying to keep buggers from copying their stuff, i would not be surprised if MS was to do soemthing like this. Im surprised they havnt already!
Anyway, i dont believe its all doom and gloom. Its still cheap hardware and the hardware is still very well documented and understood. This also wont stop the porting of other OSes to the hardware.
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Perhaps AMIGA Inc should explain:
What if a user want to buy AMIGA ONE motherboard just for running Linux, without buying AMIGA OS and AMIGA ROM? Is this possible?
If the user want to try AMIGA OS later, can the user buy the latest version of AMIGA OS (with AMIGA ROM)?
Eyetech are an entirly different entity to Amiga Inc. The AmigaOne is not Amiga Inc's board. It is Eyetechs board. They sell it to anyone , however they want!!!
If you want a board that doesnt run OS4, then get a board!!! Eyetech just wont fit it with the AmigaROM! This just means you wont be able to run AmigaOS4!!!
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Eyetech are an entirly different entity to Amiga Inc. The AmigaOne is not Amiga Inc's board. It is Eyetechs board. They sell it to anyone , however they want!!!
I agree with Rodney. If we want the board only for Linux we can.
Coder
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AInc are becoming a real business and not just some little pseudo-amateur setup. First they eliminate the threat that XL posed, now they're doing the same to the pegasos. Well, thats just the way big business works. You have to be ruthless.
In my opinion, this move has just killed the pegasos project. There were many who liked the look of the pegasos hardware but wanted OS4 who will now have to buy A1 or Shark hardware. As for the actual future of the PegasOS (OS) - ah, well figure it out yourself. There aren't enough existing Amiga users to support the current market, so I don't see how less than a third of this market could survive on its own. Looks like there is a reason for RS's vicious paranoia after all.
Remember, this is my opinion and not the truth. Feel free to believe it or not, or try to convince me otherwise with good evidence. Flames from anonymous users will simply be ignored. Or made fun of. Preferably the latter.
Thats a very good point! - Anyone who was planing on getting a pegasos to run AmigaOS4 will either, seperate themselfs from AmigaOS and stay with MorphOS or get the A1 and stay with AmigaOS.
On the other hand, i believe that AmigaOS will be bundled with a ROM. If this ROM could fit into a pegasos, well, those pegasos loving people might still have a change to play with AmigaOS.
Anyhow, some of this does sound a bit dodgy, but im sure this is the way companys like AInc and MS are goign tohave to go, pirating is getting way out of hand, infact, has been for a long long time. Its pretty much what killed the Amiga (i cant count how many games/utilities/apps we had copied :})
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Hi Kronos :)
>Its not about buying AOS4 but about paying a licence on HW that has nothing
>to do with AInc.
I think it has everything to do with Ainc if anyone wants to sell
something as an "Amiga Computer". And the license isn't on the
hardware anyway. The license is to allow it to run the OS. In short
you can't make Amiga Hardware and market the Amiga name brand without
Amiga's approval. This comes in the form of buying a license to do so.
>The price for a full AOS4 on CSPPC is ~100Euro according
>to Vesalia. That price would be fair for the Pegasos-version.
Agreed. 100% i agree. Totally i agree. Without pause and/or reservation
do i agree. :)
>AInc didn't help developing the Pegasos and they didn't help the
>Taiwanese developing the TeronCX/Agimmesomenumbers.
>Eyetech decided to sell their product under the AOne name and therefore
>have to pay $xxx to AInc.
Irrelevent. The cost of production is entirely thier affair. If they
want to sell the Amiga name they will have to buy a license to do so.
Eyetech did it and at a real nice price. However, there are a few
baseline specs you need to meet before being an "Amiga System".
Eyetech did this quite well and at a good price. All the current
PPC Amiga accelerators will be able to run OS4 and they are negotiating
the final bits as we speak. Hyperion are also doing the work on
that hardware as well. The OS will expect a few things, PPC cpu, usb,
etc, etc... The license agreement outlines those and allows hardware
makers to create compatables that wont die as soon as they try to boot
with the OS.
>BPlan decided to sell their board mainly to industrial costumers and a few
>Amiga-fans. They don't want/need the AOne-name so why should they pay?
They should pay because they are selling Amiga Computers to those
Amiga-fans. Anyway this is all because Ralph Schmidt wanted to clone
AmigaOS and sell it as MorphOS with so called "Amiga compatability".
I'd like to know where he got the OS sources from and how he got
permission for them.
One thing im slightly worried about though is being able to run linux.
I know the dev boards/beta boards are moving with linux on the drives
but once you swap in the ROM will linux still be able to run? It might
take a bit of tinkering with the kernal to get a linux build but i'm
hopeing it will run as is. Even so, i've never been a real linux user.
It's just been something i could always boot when i wanted to tinker
around in linux.
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>Yes, you will be able to buy a linux-only (actually non Amiga OS) board, and subsequently buy the OS4+ROM upgrade package.
>The upgraded ROM will still have all its open firmware code intact so you will still be able to run Linux etc
>Alan
>Eyetech
Thanks Alan, you answered before i even made my post :)
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@Ivan
BPlan aren't building a "Amiga-computer" they have developed a PPC-board
that should be capable to run AOS4. Same goes for the TeronCX until
Eyetech came along and decided to sell it as AXXX.
Eyetech A1 600Euro
Pegasos 560Euro (both without taxes)
Still the Pegasos has the better specs (firewire/cpu-slot).
Makes me wonder how much such a licence costs.
MorphOS is not AmigaOS !!
Its just a rewritten AOS-API + 68k-emu + Quark-kernel.
And don't forget that MorphOS has been started long before AOS4 (Nov.01).
It would be a bit hard to demand Ralph & Co to destroy their hard work.
Given the latest news (Thendic/Petro...) it seems they got a future-
buisness-plan that could work, something i newer saw in over 2
years of AInc.
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/me being anonymous
Damn auto log-out !
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you people are too much for me!!!!
The pegasos board will be sold to amigans with a licensed AOS4 copy under the name of MERLANCIA'S TORO SYSTEMS.
cya!
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Quick note. Let's keep this clean. 'Idiot' and 'Idiocy'
is creeping in here. Respect others opinions.
Also personally I'd suggest avoiding blind speculation
on this announcement.
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Once everything is available we can see for ourselves how it will be. And then we can say, ohh but that really s**ks. Or, ohhh that is really great.
Coder
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Merlancia ?
LOL !!!
Have you seen their prieces ? Or the dates on their homepage ?
BtW: The partnership between BPlan and Merlancia lies in ruins. Both
sides are saying they still have to get some money from other side.
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There may be friction between bPlan and Merlancia,
and there may be money problems. The only thing I have
heard that is pure fact though is that Dave Haynie
has parted ways with Merlancia.
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Hi Kronos,
Yeah sorry. I didn't make myself all that clear. I know a lot of the current Amiga user base aren't going to buy A1's - they'll stick to (sloooow) 68k, nasty XL or get a Shark. The A1 boards are expensive after all. And there is the question of their very limited upgradeability...
But OS4 will indeed sell more than pegasos, even if it's only because the Shark will use it. Now, the fact that it won't run on a pegasos board will not at all make it any easier for bplan to sell them. This is made worse because most of the ppc games lined up for the future (and there aren't many) are planned for OS4. The only way it could get worse for bplan right now is if OS4 is able to emulate or "semi-emulate" pegasos.
I see a parallel in the competition between PowerUp and WarpOS - WarpOS won out because it has more games and advanced software available, and because it can emulate PUP while the reverse is not true. And this was done without any permission from P5, authors of PUP and makers of the boards: some of whom are now backing bplan.
So as I see it, AInc are just making sure that they dominate the market - by fair means or by foul. Such is life.
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Shark ? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sorry but the Shark is pure vapor atm.
Ben said he didn't have one and its not clear how you will be able
to access the Amiga-mb or Zorro-card.
This will need special drivers and those have to be written by ... who ?
Hyperion wil focuss on the core and than on the A1 leaving the Shark-
support in the future.
BtW: How do you know the Shark will be much cheaper than a A1?
Currently there is far more SW developed for MOS than for AOS4.
Emulation could also work the other way round.
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I want to buy any hardware I want from whomever I want with or without whatever OS I want whenever I want.
While I agree with the idea, the sad truth is that many who do this and "build their own" simply use a pirated copy of the OS from a friend or the same copy they already have running on 4 other systems and intall it on the newly built system.
In other words, if you buy a new board with a 1GHz G4 to replace the initial A1 G3SE board, and move your copy of Amiga OS4 to the new system, then what happens with the old board? You sell it to someone else? Will they buy a copy of OS4 to run on it or will they just simply install the same copy they are running on their other A1 system(s)? Or will you make them a copy of the AmigaOS4 cd so they can intall it? (esentially using the same copy you have)?
PLEASE NOTE: I am NOT saying that you would personally do this, but these are questions that Amiga have to address to ensure sales for their product will be in high enough volume. And higher sales volume means it will be easier to attract developers to the platform, while at the same time providing Amiga with cash flow from the product to fund future development. That's how I see it.
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In respect to all of this, I guess I had just hoped, since AmigaOne was always touted as an "Open Architecture so that anyone can build an Amiga their way" that Amiga Inc had a clue that to succeed and get more than this little community interested in it, the Amiga had to move beyond proprietary, closed-minded systems.
I guess what I mean is that I would like to have seen eventually "100" manufacturers making "200" different boards, all to the Amiga baseline architecture (much like Mobos of the PC world).
- Want a RAID capable Amiga? Buy board x.
- Want a dual CPU Amiga? Buy board Y.
- Want a basic level student or kid's computer? Buy board Z.
That sort of thing. That cannot happen if, in Microsoft fashion, they force you to bundle their OS.
A couple of things I don't understand here, and I sincerely don't agree with the marketing on it.
1) The AmigaOne has been touted as being able to have the capability of running G4's, but Alan straps us down to running a soldered G3/600. First production run? Fine. I've talked to a LOT of the community however who would rather have the ability to buy a bare $350 socketed board, then a $500 G4 from an Amiga dealer than to buy a $550 soldered, G3/600 motherboard with no hopes of ever being able to upgrade it.
2) The move to bundle AmigaOS to the hardware doesn't make sense to me. Does this mean that you can only buy 4.3, 4.4, 4.5, etc if you buy a new motherboard? Or.... does this mean that in Microsoft Gestapo fashion, you can only have the opportunity to purchase an upgrade of the OS if you are a registered user of their software? What if you don't WANT to give them your name and information? So much for a right to privacy. If this is the case, I truly fear that AI has been infected by their northern cousin. Oh... wait... I forgot, a lot of AI's management are Microsoft refugees (I would bet that they are still with Microsoft and that AI has become a silent Microsoft corporation).
Enough X-files conspiracy theory here.... Amiga Inc can do what they want. It just doesn't seem to me that they have any idea of what the big picture should look like to be a successful company.
While I have openly supported Amiga Inc since the beginning, I have to agree here with "Ryan" and "Christophe" that this latest press release seems more of a way to protect their money flow and to force manufacturers to pay them (ala Microsoft) than about any imaginary "Quality Control".
After all, if I wanted to build a company to make Amiga compatible motherboards, it's none of Amiga Inc's damned business what my business plan is, how many boards I sell, or anything else I do. That is, of course outside of saying "I'd like to buy 500 licenses/ROMs and I'll be back when those are gone".
Such information would be priviledged info to my company which could make, or break my ability to exist and I certainly wouldn't appreciate the thought of Amiga Inc having the power to play favorites with the companies and telling "Alan" (for example) that "hey, according to what Wayne tells me in their latest licensing report, they're about to build a socketed dual motherboard, you had better get ready for that".
I find it interesting that this release making sure that we know if we want to build Amiga compatible motherboards, we have to go through them (and pay them) came out days after my thought to socket the AmigaOne motherboard.
Nothing they said stops me however (except maybe Alan) from buying a bunch of A1/AOS bundles, then socketing them, assembling them into a computer setup on my own, then selling them as a reseller.
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What if a user want to buy AMIGA ONE motherboard just for running Linux, without buying Amiga OS and Amiga ROM?
Well, if Eyetech sell the AmigaOne G3-SE with a standard bios (ie, without AOS 4 exstention) then it is not a Certified Amiga Product thus does not have to ship with Amiga OS. It would be up to the Hardware Vendor to sell an uncertified version.
Same if bPlan wanted to sell Peagasos with AOS 4. They would have to get the board certified. Which would mean it would have to be flashed with a bios with AOS 4 exstentions. It doesn't mean they can't bundle it with MOS. It would just have a different bios (which I assume they have), thus no need to include AOS with the MOS version of Peagasos.
The BIOS would make it a different product.
I assume that if someone wanted to run AOS at a later date that there will be some arrangement made to flash the bios.
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Really, people.
Get a good bussiness book, read it.
Get "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu, read it.
Get "A Book of Five Rings" by Miyamoto Musashi. read it.
We in the West have learned well from those in the East.
All will then be clear, Grasshoper.
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Ah, a whisper in the dark. Thank you.
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While I have openly supported Amiga Inc since the beginning, I have to agree here with "Ryan" and "Christophe" that this latest press release seems more of a way to protect their money flow and to force manufacturers to pay them (ala Microsoft) than about any imaginary "Quality Control".
While I see yor point, there definately needs to be more quality control and support by so called 'Amiga' hardware companies.
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I know a lot of the current Amiga user base aren't going to buy A1's - they'll stick to (sloooow) 68k, nasty XL or get a Shark. The A1 boards are expensive after all. And there is the question of their very limited upgradeability...
Sounds like my Amiga 1200. It's amazing what those hardware developers have come up with. :)
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I guess what I mean is that I would like to have seen eventually "100" manufacturers making "200" different boards, all to the Amiga baseline architecture (much like Mobos of the PC world).
anyone can make An AmigaPPC mobo.
where does it say they can not ?
but its no good you going out & buying unsupported gfx cards & sound cards.
& it aint like there are loads of openPPC mobos out there for use to choose from.
this is just the start damnit give it time to grow.
its not Amiga.inc fault that there are
not loads of open ppc mobos out there. for the home user.
infact there are none atm.
& for getting G4 cpu's right now at the start & trying to get around the Apple's grip on it with the deal with motarola
would mean putting loads of £ up front to get them.
the mobo is not closed at all like a Mac.
the rom is a flashrom the openbios will always be there it will have AmigaOs stuff added to it.
look at it being like your libs draw where you can add more libs to give more functions.
adding a lib does not stop all the over libs from working nore does it try to replace them.
& even if there was 100's of types of openppc mobo you would still to start of with being limited to just a few as drivers have to be made
& you cant just make loads of them over night & even BeOs had problems getting drivers made fast enough trying to support to many PC mobo types at once when they started out & ppl got febup
of BeOs not runing on the pc they just bought.
this is all about lack of money you cant just expect eyetech or hyperion to
bring out stuff as if it was on the scale of the pc world.
on the first try of going fullout ppc.
even windows-XP will not work on all pc mobos & im even talking about some mobos just 8 months old.
so you see win-xp add on tv & think hey i like that & run out & buy a pc mobo & put it all together your self.
woould you like an un cert-ed mobo or one that is knone to work with Win-xp.
& what are you thinking of runnig on the Aone beside linux & other opensource Oses wich can run on it when ppl get there hands on one.
if think you will get a leagal version of mac os on it then forget that. Apple aint going to do that.
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(Somebody claiming to be) Alan Redhouse, Eyetech wrote:
Yes, you will be able to buy a linux-only (actually non Amiga OS) board, and subsequently buy the OS4+ROM upgrade package.
From the Subject line (it seems only Eyetech will be producing "Amiga Ones" from now on) I take it you are only talking about your company and the boards you will be distributing, or are you saying that what the Executive Update says is incorrect?
"Eyetech's AmigaOne series of PPC motherboards" are among the licensed products. So, you already have a complete series of boards that have been reviewed and certified by Amiga Inc? Or are general carte-blanche licenses handed out in advance to certain companies?
I don't know if it's worth noting that an Amiga Inc. Executive Update is written with British English spelling for the first time... Bah.
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Who says the Shark is vapor? For almost 8 months people have being saying both the A1 and OS4 are vapor. Oh, but loooky...here they are. Vapor! is normally the cry of people who don't like something but can't find any good reason why they don't. I thought Codename Chicago was vapor - until out popped Windows95, the Abomination of Mankind. If the Shark fails to come out, AInc lose 1000s of potential customers of OS4. I doubt they will allow this easily.
As for emulation, correct - it can work both ways. But given what has gone before, i believe bplan will not want to emulate OS4. Some MOS folks have been rabid about wanting nothing to do with it, stating it as being coded by people who know nothing about the Amiga's insides and should go back to coding games. MOS and pegasos emulation on OS4 is the likelier prospect at the moment - especially if pegasos fails - which, let me just put clearly before the flames burn: I do not want to happen.
Lots of software on MOS - well, its mainly just direct ports of (fairly trivial) 68k stuff. I don't doubt that OS4 coders could hammer out the same stuff in a few months. So far, though, (and prove me wrong) there isn't anything in MOS yet that is truly great or innovative - apart from MOS itself. MOS has had at least a year. No games. Only one planned that I know (Feeble Files). And no big apps. Not good.
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8 months ago the A1 (Predator+ based) and AOS4 (H&P) were vapor.
A1.5 and HyperOS4.0 are two completly different products.
MorphOS-SW currently in development:
Papyrus (complete Office-Suite)
Motionstudio
The Thendic-Stuff
AOS4-SW currently in development:
Maybe a few a Hyperion-Ports
???
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I didn't say A1 and OS4 were the same product. I said that at one time, both were put down as vapor by MOS supporters, and turned out not to be.
As for the software list, ok, point conceded. (I did ask you do prove me wrong) ;-)
At the same time, be sure that the OS that has more users and more publicity will surely have more software available. This is a fact. Whether this will be OS4 or pegasos is yet to be seen. But I know who my money's on.
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I didn't say A1 and OS4 were the same product.
Nor did i :-)
I just stated that current HW and SW has nothing in common with
what should have been released in last November.
About the user-base:
Petros Power-Computing has sold quite a few Amigas to Indian
TV-Stations and so on. Now he is supporting MophOS/Pegasos.
If German users are put to the choice of A1+AOS4 or Pegasos+MorphOS
this is what would happen (IMHO):
30% Pegasos
25% A1
45% leave me alone with your PPC-crap
And don't forget that the german market has a huge impact.
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>MOS has had at least a year. No games. Only one
>planned that I know (Feeble Files). And no big apps.
>Not good.
You missed a lots of announcements then.
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Ok, time to settle things once and for all.
Classic+PPC Amiga gets OS4 for Classic+PPC (released first)
A1+ROM will run OS4 (released second)
A1-ROM will run Linux only, unless OS4+ROM pack is purchased afterwards (A1SE dev boards?)
bPlan and AI have never had any agreements, so hang it up untill they do (which will either happen, or Pegasos will die, IMHO)
Other developers will either have to support the ROM, or bundle OS4-ROM with their products. Only those developers will have access to OS4-ROM, as it will be strictly an OEM version.
Hardware upgrades for ROM supported systems will require transfering the ROM from the old board to the new board to support OS4... Thus additional copies of OS4 or OS4+ROM will not be needed unless you intend on running both machines. In which case you're supposed to be running seperate licensed copies of the OS anyway! :-D
Relax folks... This is nothing new for the Amiga, nor is it anything to panic about.
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As far as trying to help control the piracy of the OS, whats to stop sombody from doing a similar trick like on the classic Amiga's of having a 3.0 hardware ROM, kicking up an image of a 3.1 ROM into non-volitile mem and then rebooting? PC boards have an option to "shadow" their BIOS in mem to speed it up, it makes me wonder if the A1 will too. So, now sombody figures out a way of doing just this when the A1's come out, they make an image of the ROM and have it load into ram, reboot and use the 4.0 ROM then continue loading. Point being, anit-piracy tactics rarely stand up to pirates for very long, and I don't think selling software bundles is going to help either. Perhaps an over the phone registration would work for each copy of the OS4, like with WinXP? Same serial number used more than once in a quarter, and you have to send them your orginal CD to get sent a new one, with a new serial number. I dunno...anybody else have better ideas to curb piracy?
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After some discussions over at ANN, the AmigaOS4
licensing issues seem to result in a long chain of
reasoning: The 'FACT's are all official stuff, the
'CONCLUSION's are just that- hopefully objective
conclusions from the facts.
FACT: AmigaOS4 cannot run without specific stuff in FlashROM.
FACT: When Eyetechs PPC-based board has these ROM extensions
installed, and thus can run AOS it is called an AmigaONE.
CONCLUSION1: When this AmigaONE is sold, it has to be bundled with
AmigaOS, as the license states that all licensed boards capable
of running the OS must be sold with it.
CONCLUSION2: When Eyetech's board hasn't got those ROM extensions
installed, it CANNOT run AOS4. It is also not an
'AmigaONE' anymore. This board can be sold by Eyetech
for Linux users wanting to use the HW.
FACT: License states that AOS4 will never
be shipped unless together with hardware. Exception
is PPC-classic users.
[dev.board buyers are not considered regular users, and will supposedly get
the OS together with Flash-update as separately
arranged (mentioned by Ben at ANN)].
I couldn't find any unbiased 'CONCLUSION:' to this one.
I guess it is up to each person to decide wether
this is a good or bad thing.
PRO: The OS is sure to support the hardware it runs on.
CON: You cannot buy a separate AOS and smack it in a
random unlicensed third-party PPCboard.
.
SlimJim
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well the cookies seem to work now
well they do with IB2.2 i have not had to re enter my nick & PW
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>bPlan and AI have never had any agreements, so
>hang it up untill they do (which will either happen,
>or Pegasos will die, IMHO)
The Amiga market isn't even the main target market.
How easy do you think Petro will sell the Pegasos to
those Indian companies he sold A1200s before?
Think about it.
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This is simple and to the point and true, "This is like Apple now..."
and probably another nail in the coffin for Amiga, they just keep making one bone head move after another!
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Does this have the smell of Microsoft's heavy handiness in doing business? The same thing happens with agreements they have with computer makers, plus they (M$) are now lobbying for any PC sold must have a Windows license!
See what becoming a partner with M$ has gotten us? A M$ like mentality that will do nothing but drive a stake thru the hearts of the Amiga community! This idea sucks like big rats thru a garden hose!
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I seriously hope you really don't believe that
nonsense yourself.
.
SlimJim
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Does this have the smell of Microsoft's heavy handiness in doing business? The same thing happens with agreements they have with computer makers, plus they (M$) are now lobbying for any PC sold must have a Windows license!
no it is nothing to do with M$.
Mac branded hardware have always come with MacOs
Amiga branded hardware has alway come with AmigaOs.
Amiga & Mac have always been that way & no one moaded about that over the years.
did the Mac ppl moan about Mac branded hardware coming with new ppc MacOs when they moved to PPC.
i doubt they did has they bought a mac to run MacOs.
if you buy an AmigaOne it will come with AmigaOs just like Amiga branded computers always have.
eyetech can sell the same mobo to ppl who dont want AmigaOs.
by just simply not flasing the bios with Amiga.extention
& name the mobo as something else.& would not have to pay the Amiga tax with thoes boards.
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BTW in getting sick of ppl posting Anon
as there is no good reason to be doing so
on a forum like this.
& you dont know who you are replying to.
you cant see the trend of the poster or if they are contradicting
them self with a post made by them selfs earlyer.
if you think what yor are saying is worth anything & you beleave
what your are saying is truthful to the best of what you know then it should be worth putting a Name to it.
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> BTW in getting sick of ppl posting Anon
Well, I've forgot to log in lately (if it was me
you referred to). At least I always put my name
at the bottom...
.
SlimJim
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slim NP as ppl make mistakes & i do see some ppl
putting the nick at to bottom to put things right.
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Looks like Amiga is constantly moving the goal posts and leading us on with tiny snippets of pseudo-information!
Piracy Protection?- good idea... but where's the machine?
But all this talk of buying boards or running Amiga on an x86 is just useless. I'm not buying anything until it comes in it's own box, with its own hardware, and there's a viable market for software.
I took a chance on the Amiga 500 when it was new, and I loved the machine. However, I'm not going to be getting out the soldering iron, or reverse-engineering Linux just so I can play frogger again with real smooth scrolltext.
Hardware NOW! (or sooner)
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@Alkemyst
Wanna know the difference between AInc and Apple (or C=) ?
Apple develops and builds their maschines at their own risk and cost.
In ower 2 years AInc hasn't spend a single cent into new HW or the "classic" OS.
They gave AOS4 to Hyperion and want some money for the 3.1 licence -> fine !
They want some money from Eyetech for the AOne-name -> o.k.
They want money from every AOS4-capable board -> no way !
This is not about piracy ! And this definitly not about quality ("AInc" and
"quality" in the same sentence, what a joke!). It's about money!
BtW: only one week ago all that was needed for AOS4 on Pegasos
was a dev-board + doku.
That has to be enough !
If Hyperion want to sell as much copies as possible they have to
support it (when its available) as it will probraly sell just as good as
the A1. This is NOT BPlans job.
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>>Wanna know the difference between AInc and Apple (or C=) ?
>>Apple develops and builds their maschines at their own risk and cost.
>>In ower 2 years AInc hasn't spend a single cent into new HW or the "classic" OS.
loads of firms do what Amiga.inc are doing.
& most comsumers do not know or care how there computing HW got to PCworld or who payed for what.
on the mobo or how the OS was funded.
>>hey want money from every AOS4-capable board -> no way !
for ppc board to be AOS4 capable it will need the amigaosbios.extentions.
the bPlan modo does not have that so is not AOS4 capable.
for any ppc mobo to be AOS4 capable it will need to have amigaosbios.extention flashed in
& thats when you have to pay amiga,inc.
yes i would say that rules have changed like it or not that is totally up to them.
& when you buy most things you will read that.
& its not upto hyperion to what HW AmigaOs4 runs on its up to Amiga.inc
as thats what the executive update says.
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http://news.com.com/2100-1040-881673.html
Now consider such an addiction to a company name.
It's all meaningless until it's real and really available.
being in a position to move forward is not.
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havent read the latest statement from Amiga Inc, by reading the threads, I really do not need to...
One of the issues raised as regards certified hardware etc. reminded me of way back when Epson, and Iomega were going to have amiga certified logos placed on their packaging, along with Apple and Microsoft certified logos..
Well you can see where that went, absolutely nowhere, it didnt happen.
I think Amiga Inc are a little out of touch with the community as a whole...I can only express my feelings, but all I ever wanted was a decent, fast machine to do real work on and not to play games or have silly crap like MUI installed on it (sorry). As for hardware, I think its my choice what hardware I use and not Amiga Incs....
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>>havent read the latest statement from Amiga Inc, by reading the threads, I really do not need to...
yes you do
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Hi Kronos,
I love that crusty the clown icon you use btw,
cracks me up every time. :)
OK, i think you have the misconception that
Amiga will charge OEM's to sell Amiga capable
boards. That simply isnt true. The licenseing
is free to anyone and all they must do is
ensure the bios is flashed with the Amiga
specific bits n bytes. It is part of the OS
as a whole and won't run without it. This is
also why the OS must be shipped together with
the boards. Because a portion of the OS itself
must be on the bios (even if its just a few k)
the OS will need to have it there or your Amiga
system just wont run and you can't go about
selling bits of the OS without the rest.
That's why you either buy the OS for your
PPC system and have your rom flashed or you
opt for a non-Amiga PPC system and buy a
kit later on to allow AmigaOS to run. Which
i personally think will ship with a CD and
a flashed rom. Just pop in the new bios and
slap in the CD. And it won't interfere with
your linux setup at all. Unless of course
your such a geek that you've gone and
customized your bios as well. :)
This is also a far cry from the M$ 'tactics'
that some people have thrown out. Amiga
places no other limitations other than if
the OEM plans to distribute any portion of
thier OS that they must ship it as a
complete and intact OS. I think this
is acceptable and if linux were my main
OS i wouldnt have any troubles at all
getting a PPC mobo without the Amiga
specifics in the bios. You can't do this
with much ease in todays wintel market,
even after the lawsuits. :P
Even then i'd consider picking up the flashed
bios and CD at a later date. $100 dosnt sound
too high to me. Heck it could come out for less
if things ever do get rolling along. Who
can say 100% one way or the other. If your
a linux guru and you just got to have the
linux PPC system then maybe while your
dropping $550 for that mobo you might drop
an extra $50 for the flashed bios and CD just
because AmigaOS is another alternative to the
universally hated standard.
Anyway i will probably be putting linux in
my A1 as well. Which shouldnt be much
trouble. Strike that, i know i'll put linux
in the system. Dual boot is just cool. :)
Ivan.
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Ivan,
OK, i think you have the misconception that Amiga will charge OEM's to sell Amiga capable boards. That simply isnt true.
Unless you have read the complete licensing terms you don't know anymore about that than the rest of us mere users here. It doesn't matter much anyways if the license itself costs anything.
The licenseing is free to anyone and all they must do is ensure the bios is flashed with the Amiga specific bits n bytes.
And get the boards approved by Amiga Inc. And get themselves and their combined software/hardware support organisation approved by Amiga Inc. And most importantly bother to apply for a license to market their boards at a tiny Amiga market.
And in the Amiga One case it's not a flashable BIOS according to Alan Redhouse. You need the ROM chip.
It is part of the OS as a whole and won't run without it.
It's not part of the OS. It's an OpenFirmware BIOS with some proprietary extensions that the OS is looking for. It's just copy protection. Amiga OS could run perfectly fine without those extensions.
That's why you either buy the OS for your PPC system and have your rom flashed or you opt for a non-Amiga PPC system and buy a kit later on to allow AmigaOS to run.
No, no, no, no, [color=FF0000]NO![/color][/b][/u] If it only were so well! You have to buy the OS together with the hardware, and the OS will only be shipped with licensed hardware from licensed distributors. This is what's so horribly insane.
The only exception is for the old CS/BlizzardPPC boards and the pre-ordered Amiga One G3-SEs, where what you describe is valid (and for the A1G3-SE you buy a ROM chip, BIOS images for flashing will not be available other than for the pirates).
This is also a far cry from the M$ 'tactics' that some people have thrown out.
Well, Microsoft doesn't require every distributor of Windows compatible hardware to be bundling Windows (though I'm sure they'd love to), and they sell Windows separately, and they don't care about who makes Windows compatible hardware since they, like Amiga Inc., are a software company (not counting the X-Box and computer peripherals). So I guess you're right... It's worse than Microsoft's tactics. *shudder'
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>Unless you have read the complete licensing terms you don't know anymore about that than the rest of us mere users here. It doesn't matter much anyways if the license itself costs anything.
Accoring to Ben over on Ann.lu, this is infact the case. No OEM pays for the license. Then again Ann *IS* an unmoderated forum (well the unmoderated section at least) and there are no real user accounts there. I'll leave it to someone else to clarify for us. For now i'll drop the point and move on, as you said, it's irellevent, and all OEM's would pack thier business costs into the pricetag anyway.
>And get the boards approved by Amiga Inc.
Not a problem, if it's a good board people will buy it. To date i haven't heard of a single design being refused.
>And get themselves and their combined software/hardware support organisation approved by Amiga Inc.
Here, i may agree with you. Reluctantly, but i do agree that this could be an added cost that might push off a perspective vendor. Then again, how is Eyetech organizing such a huge support network? I think this requirement is far too vague for either of us to make educated comment on so, i just won't comment. :)
But if i were to venture a guess, (here i go, i said i wouldnt comment didnt i?) i'd guess this is showing proof that the OEM has some form of warranty on the hardware they package up as an amiga product, as well as possibly some OS purchase/replacement scheme(maybe). It remains to be seen. But there have been horribly unreliable HW vendors in the Amiga scene before, i tend to think of this as a step forward.
>And most importantly bother to apply for a license to market their boards at a tiny Amiga market.
The process seemes simple enough. Here's our mobo, here's our signature, this is how we will support users. And yes, but Amiga has always been a small market. I don't mind. If another OEM can find new sales so much the better.
>And in the Amiga One case it's not a flashable BIOS according to Alan Redhouse. You need the ROM chip.
This still doesn't negate the possibility of a CD packaged with a ROM. The bios is in all probability socketed. Do correct me if im wrong. Hey i'm waiting for one myself so i haven't seen the board either.
>It's not part of the OS. It's an OpenFirmware BIOS with some proprietary extensions that the OS is looking for. It's just copy protection. Amiga OS could run perfectly fine without those extensions.
It *IS* part of the OS. Those "proprietary extensions" are in the OS now, like it or not and calling it 'only a copy protection' does not exclude it from the OS package. Amiga is entitled to put any anti-piracy measures they feel fit into thier OS. Neither you or i have the right to complain, we don't own it.
>No, no, no, no, NO! If it only were so well! You have to buy the OS together with the hardware, and the OS will only be shipped with licensed hardware from licensed distributors. This is what's so horribly insane.
>The only exception is for the old CS/BlizzardPPC boards and the pre-ordered Amiga One G3-SEs, where what you describe is valid (and for the A1G3-SE you buy a ROM chip, BIOS images for flashing will not be available other than for the pirates).
*sigh* To date i havent read a thing that says a CD+BIOS pack can't and won't be sold. In fact, quite the opposite. A CD+BIOS package will be offered by Eyetech (if there is a demand) for the people who buy a bogg standard bios with thier PPC mobo, so they may legaly place a bios with the amiga specific copy protection codes into thier system. This was announced by Eyetech themselves and i don't think they are about to sell pirate copys of the bios/os on the sly. ;)
And yes, we are all aware of the skill of todays hackers. Unfortunatly, it would be a more costly solution than purchasing a legal copy. Something that pleases me no end. :)
>Well, Microsoft doesn't require every distributor of Windows compatible hardware to be bundling Windows (though I'm sure they'd love to), and they sell Windows separately, and they don't care about who makes Windows compatible hardware since they, like Amiga Inc., are a software company (not counting the X-Box and computer peripherals). So I guess you're right... It's worse than Microsoft's tactics. *shudder'
BUT BUT BUT :) Eyetech are fully within thier rights to refuse to ship a single AmigaOne and still sell the hardware design to anyone they please. The only exception being, if you add AMIGA'S (cant stress that enough) "proprietary extensions" to Eyetech's hardware for any purpose, be that to run OS4 or not, then by contract you must package the rest of the OS along with it and then pay Ainc on a sale of thier OS. (while taking a slice for themselves no doubt) This agreement only applies if your selling Amiga Systems. If you sell the same hardware devoid of all Amiga bios codes, extensions and OS, then they have no say in who or where you sell the boards. No corporate stranglehold here.
Ya know, i love this place. You can have a decient debate/discussion without someone comeing out of the woodwork to pee on your bonfire.
Ivan.
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Ivan,
We seem to agree on that hardware licensing is not a bad thing in itself. I think it's a Good Thing that a prospective Amiga OS user can buy a complete package from a dealer who is guaranteed to be good and provides support for the complete package.
The main point I'm trying to push is that you should be able to buy any damn compatible hardware you wish to buy and from whomever you want, licenced ditributor or not! Amiga Inc. are a software company and thus I should be able to buy my OS from them separately to install on my hardware.
There simply will not be enough licensed hardware manufacturers/distributors around who will accept terms of selling their hardware bundled with an OS and providing software support and providing a separate product line if they want to sell to the bigger non-Amiga market to ensure competition and provide every piece of current and future Amiga compatible hardware at sensible prices.
This will hurt PPC development, PPC pricing, Amiga OS consumers and Amiga Inc themselves.
It *IS* part of the OS. Those "proprietary extensions" are in the OS now, like it or not and calling it 'only a copy protection' does not exclude it from the OS package. Amiga is entitled to put any anti-piracy measures they feel fit into thier OS. Neither you or i have the right to complain, we don't own it.
If the BIOS + Amiga OS specific BIOS extensions are part of the OS it's yet another reason not to bundle it with the hardware. It should be available separately from the hardware, together with the OS.
I have a right to complain as a customer, even if nothing I say will change their minds. I will buy Amiga OS and as a paying customer I'll have to buy the hardware which Amiga The Software company wants me to buy, from the distributor they tell me to buy it from. The pirates on the other hand - they'll download dc-amigaos4.iso and dc-amigabios.img and then do what I should be able to do; choose the hardware they want.
To date i havent read a thing that says a CD+BIOS pack can't and won't be sold.
Do these quotes sound familiar?:
"the AmigaOS only being available to licensed solution providers for the shipping of combined hardware and software solutions"
"AmigaOS4 and all future versions will ship only on those hardware products to which Amiga Inc has specifically granted a license"
"For hardware which is not capable of being used in conjunction with Amiga WB 3.1 (such as the AmigaOne) we will require, as part of the licence conditions, that a copy of Amiga OS is purchased with all boards sold that are capable of running it."
Add to that what Ben Hermans, Gary Peake and Alan Redhouse have written in various forums.
In fact, quite the opposite. A CD+BIOS package will be offered by Eyetech (if there is a demand) for the people who buy a bogg standard bios with thier PPC mobo, so they may legaly place a bios with the amiga specific copy protection codes into thier system.
I know, and pre-ordered A1G3-SE's from Eyetech are the only possible exclusion from the bundling policy, together with OS4 for CS/BlizzardPPC.
Eyetech are fully within thier rights to refuse to ship a single AmigaOne and still sell the hardware design to anyone they please.
I don't think they're allowed to sell somebody else's hardware design.
If you sell the same hardware devoid of all Amiga bios codes, extensions and OS, then they have no say in who or where you sell the boards. No corporate stranglehold here.
Exactly, that's why hardware distributors and manufacturers won't bother with the Amiga market. The stranglehold is applied to the throats of us Amiga OS users who don't give a flying fsck about from whom we buy *our* hardware or whether that hardware is licensed or not. It's our market that loses competition. It's our market that won't grow as fast as it could have, if at all. It's us who have to pay for all this stupidity.
I wish everyone would stop speaking of the A1G3-SE as if it was the only and final solution. There might be and come boards that don't have ROM sockets or incompatible ROM sockets. Their distributors might not be interested in Amiga at all, even though their hardware would be Amiga OS compatible. And so on and so on. Are people so starving for new hardware that they'll settle for this one specific motherboard from one single distributor for all future without any foresight and rational thought? Is every misconduct and ugly trick and even legally dubious business practice which ultimately will backfire at yourselves in one or more ways accepted and forgiven because this one specific piece of hardware will have "Amiga" in its name and it happens to run a certain number of multiples faster than your ancient 68k system held together by duct tape and paper clips?
Ya know, i love this place. You can have a decient debate/discussion without someone comeing out of the woodwork to pee on your bonfire.
I dunno, people are already throwing things like "idiots", "pirates" and "vicious paranoia" around.
[edit: forgot to close a "quote" tag]