Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => General Internet News => Topic started by: Coder on March 11, 2002, 06:32:10 AM
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Hans-Joerg and Thomas Frieden have decided to unsubscribe from all amiga-related public mailing lists, newsgroups and web forums, and they have deleted all their Amiga bookmarks.
The complete mail sent to the AmigaOne list:
Hi!
I've already tried to send this mail, but it bounced, so I am reposting this.
Recent events have given me the impression that it has become impossible in the Amiga community to speak up in self-defence without
someone taking offence in it. Thomas and me have therefore decided (in in fact already did so) to unsubscribe from all amiga-related public
mailing lists, newsgroups and web forums, and we have deleted all our Amiga bookmarks.
Work on our projects will not be affected by this. OS 4 will still be developed in the same way it used to be. We're just pulling out of the
public.
I'm sorry we have to take such drastic measures, but it simply doesn't work otherwise anymore. You can still contact us personally, we're open for discussion, but no longer in public. Fact is that everything we say will end up on some web page or forum, being dissected to death and commented with all sort of nice wording, so the best solution is obviously to say nothing at all.
Thanks for reading this.
Best regards,
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Hans-Joerg Frieden
Senior Software Developer, Hyperion Entertainment
Mail: Hans-JoergF@hyperion-software.de
Web: http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com
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Really sad that it has come this far. I am 100% behind there decision. Well, all those people with negative comments/words will have to respond once OS4 is ready. Because then it is time to take back those words they said. They really piss me of. Sorry for the bad language but I just want to express my feelings.
Nobody messes with the heroes of OS4!!!!
Coder
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I don't see anything wrong with this (not communicating directly with the entire Amiga community). Why should they? It simply doesn't work in practic to adress every little $#@!ty doomsday comment, generating ten more. It's a mistake being corrected.
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You have a point there JetRacer. But also it shows they really care about it. And that is something that I admire. Care for what they do.
Coder
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Do I really need to say who cares?
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Perhaps Bill McEwen hunted them down for their "75% confidence" statement :)
Or someone had spam their mailbox :(
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Sounds like a bunch of cry babies to me!
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Would it be such a bad idea to have anonymous posting turned off or user moderation?
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Wayne should block all anonymous postings! :pint:
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I also fully agree with Hans-Joerg and Thomas Frieden's decision.
Shame that the people against the decision are too scared to give their name.
If you don't want people to know who you are, don't post anything.
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When the cookie problem is fixed, and people finally understand how to validate their accounts rather than telling me they can't log in, I'll get rid of anonymous posting.
Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org
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I advised them to do this back in May 2001 pointing out this very problem. Im sure I was not alone in this.
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Well thats a surprise... I wonder if they'll go into the forums and mailinglists under someone elses name :). Defending whats right.
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Alas, it's hard not to hang on every word of even the tiniest hit towards the eventual release of OS4. But then again, it's hard to concentrate on your work when you're constantly being bugged about it.
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I think they did absolutely the right thing. It can be a hellish thing to try and develop a product when you have a bunch of back-biters going for the jugular all of the time.
:-D viking2000@interbaun.com
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i absolutely agree with Hans and Thomas, let the nay sayers and negsative anonymous posters eat their words when os4 finally comes out =)
:-D the Beast
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Offcourse it was not just a few postings with negative thoughts. Seems those people get a kick out of smashing everything down. Maybe they were send by Bill Gates. You never know.
Coder
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Personally I'm suprised that they get so much work done
considering the amount of time they must have spent trying to explain
themseves on every forum around.
I do though, think that they let themselves get too easily baited by
their knockers and they needed to learn to turn the other cheek rather
than turn their back on the community. This is applicable though to
many Amiga personalities and in general anyone on the web. No one
wants inaccurate opinions of them to stand for digital eternity.
The rest of us should do our bit though and stop behaving like phirana
every time a drop of information hits the water.
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Personally i can't say that I blame the fellas. Its a shame but its not the end of the world.
I know for a fact that a few people are keeping them up-to-date if anything important is said. (re them or the amiga community in general)
So fear not, they have just got fed up with the bickering.
Its annoying cause its human nature to say something when they are unhappy but do people ever write and say "thanks guys, great job" etc. no. well - not very often so its VERY easy for people to get a negative view on things. its just a sad fact that people dont convey their Good feelings aas often as they do their Bad ones. ;/
anyway. ramble over.
TTFN
Biff
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I can understand why they chose to do this. I have subscribed to that particular list (as I'm sure most people who frequent this web site have), and so have seen for myself what they are talking about. I just hope that they realise there are people like me who don't often, if ever, post to the list, but read it with great enthusiasm, and will be sad to no longer hear news direct from them.
I wish them the best, and I look forward to seeing the results of all their hard work for myself.
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This is a sad indication of how vicious the bickering and whying is in the Amiga community. The Amiga needs people trying to work to achive goals, this means people working togeather.. not just thousands of individuals explaining to the few that are ACTUALLY doing somthing why they should be following some lame half baked idea on the way things should be... :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:
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I was amazed by the amount of messages they posted, not to mention the thickness of their hides. It was evident in the last few weeks that that hide had been worn thin by a few individuals, as they engaged in debates armed with facts and logic against illogic and close minded ingnorance.
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Sometimges I really hate the Amiga community!!! 100% support for the Frieden brothers from me!
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Maybe they should just sit themselfs at Amiga.org? I dont see any such type of MorhphOS bashing or AmigaOS bashing or Hyperion Bashing on Amiga.org. I dont see bickering or flame wars.
Im so greateful to wayne for getting Amiga.org back. The other site that i retreated to, umm well, we getting on my nervs a lot, and it saden me to see the community act in such ways.
Fortunatly i dont see it on this site. If it does happen, well, thank god for wayne and other moderators to be here to clean that stuff up :).
Thanks guy.
Wayne, if you need a nother moderator, i would be happy to do what is needed. Im busy, but i would really like to contribute soething towards the community since ive taken so much :). You know where to find me...
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Do I REALLY need to see your post?
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You know the constant drumbeat of the censor loving control freaks is about as tiring as any flame war.
As for withdrawing from debate, sure why not, it gets old after a while. It's much better to withdraw from a debate than to demand that debate not exist. How childish is that!
Kudos to Hans-Joerg and Thomas Frieden for having a bit of dignity.
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You know the constant drumbeat of the censor loving control freaks is about as tiring as any flame war.
While I would almost agree with you, I don't believe that to be a fair assessment. Most of these guys aren't "censor-loving control freaks", most are just tired of having to duke it out with people who don't share the same opinion.
Humorously, you can almost always tell the reasonable opinions versus the rash opinions by the fact that "Anonymous" postings are almost always poorly thought out or purposely abrasive.
Wayne Hunt
directNIC.com
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You are right Wayne. And offcourse there is nothing wrong with some critics/negative words, but post it as a registered user.
Coder
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After months of backbiting, name calling and slanging matches in some of the Amiga Groups, both on Yahoo and Usenet over the past year or so, I can quite understand where these two lads are comming from..
When I first went online with my amiga I was almost swept away by the shear amount of help the comunity offered, yet inside of Two and a half years, this community has become more and more spitefull towards each other.
The Amiga Community was in my opinion one of the Amigas greatest strengths, it was something to be proud of. Today, It is an embaresment to us all. The fact that it is so rotten that it drives away men of this quality away from them is so shameful.
I wish that I had the guts these guys have, to pull away from the mud slingers and the "experts" and still wish to work to develop this lost treasure into something viable again. I don't think I would have the strength of charactor to do that somehow.
I'm only sad that I'll not be able to enjoy the fruits of there labours when they have finished this masterpiece as I have already made tracks elsewhere as I type this.
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and we have deleted all our Amiga bookmarks
Is it just me or does anyone else find this weird?
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thats the way to do it , great hyperion.
exactly this is one of the reasons why we froze our projects or stopped em for good, now we work on something else and not mentioned around, why?
well because of all the mud slingers out there.
i hope that hyperion will post again soon , as thats when os4 news will arrive i guess.
untill then, i toTALLY understand it and its very harsh to see all the fights going on, and thats to the most productive team on amiga the last 4 years...
what would this place be like i everyone backed out like this?, think about and start to care more before you sling us some mud in the face.
I AM SOO tIRED OF FIGHTS!!!
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I'm with you, Darth_X. It seems to be an over reaction. What does deleating bookmarks to Amiga sites have to do with withdrawing from public debate?
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The story repeat itself...
8-) :-x :-P ;-) :-D :-) :-(
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It was taking time away from the actual programming. So it is a good move in that respect.
However it was also good to have the developers available to explain what was going on and it did reduce the amount of FUD in the community.
I can also understand why some people have been feeling betrayed. If this OS was going to take 4 years to create, Hyperion and Amino should have made that clear at the outset. If you tell someone every month for 4 years that something will be finished "real soon now", of course they will become cynical.
Of course that's not the Frieden's fault, apparently they are pretty much the only coders making OS4? I think Hyperion should have assigned more coders to this project and it would likely be finished; as it is the entire burden falls on their shoulders.
Obviously they are both excellent programmers, but there is a limit to the rate at which software can be programmed. Maybe those useless bludging fools at Amino, especially Gary Peake and Ray Akey, could have been put on the project rather than set loose to annoy the community and rant and moan. Oops, I forgot they are lamers :-) better not let them then :-)
I would have thought the Friedens would have finished coding by now and would have more time, not less, to peruse the forums? Or am I to infer that the coding of OS4 is still underway? which with testing, duplication, etc. would mean at least six more months of waiting?
All hail the Friedens, they really are OS4 heroes...