Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Kees on February 25, 2002, 11:30:05 PM
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AMIGEN mailinglist:
"Yes, Microsoft has asked us to demo DE and some of the developer applications running on various devices in their booth.
Gary"
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Resistance is futile, hehehe.
Dont know if its worth speculating yet, but perhaps in time we will see IE on amigaDE, standards, sweet.
btw, I stumbled accros the ports page of www.mozilla.org and found there's a DE version on the way, really sweet...calling all coders, help out!
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even tho i hate M$ would be kewl if they did put their name on it and pumped loadsa cash into it - mebbe not amiga`s style of business,b ut i think the ppl behind amiga ATM could do with some big money :)
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yeah, business is business. Who cares if it's MS or Apple or Nokia to put money in Amiga? All we want is a shiny Amiga name and a new bike for McEven :-) (and i want amigade and amigaos4!!!)
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I quote Solid Snake from the PS1 game Metal Gear Solid: "This is bad.."
It's never a good sign when M$ shows interest in something. They only do that when they want to aquire and align or use the "embrase and extend" strategy.
I hope they refused and claimed it was not supposed to be on the American market anyway. Then we might actually see software/hardware beyond AOS4.0 and A1.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
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And oh, I forgot: sue without any real reason until opposition is broke strategy.
Them might claim that Intent is a reverse-enginered version of .net.
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I am sorry but this is like playing with the devil.
Most if not all companies that deal with M$ get burned sooner or later...
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I have to agree that this cannot be good for Amiga to have caught the eye of MS. After what I read about this .NET they are working on, it sounds suprisingly similar to DE. If any kind of sharing of tech goes on between MS and Amiga, MS will surely double cross Amiga just as they did with SEGA and the Dreamcast. Too bad to, since Dreamcast died a premature death. But look at it, SEGA teams with MS to use DirectX and WindowsCE for Dreamcast. Dreamcast isn't out half a year and MS drops SEGA like a bad habit to announce that they are working on XBox. MS learns what the competition has up its sleeves by getting chummy with them, then when they have enough info, they attempt to smash it with their own. Now look at SEGA...they have been relagated to an Arcade hardware and console software only company, releasing their games on PS2 and my god on the NINTENDO too! What the hell is going on? DON'T work with MS! NO NO NO!
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i agree, this is bad, very bad, Amiga better watch its back...... :-?
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dont let bill of borg bully you around... :-x
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hhm mybe they want steal ideas ok worse they want to steal to steal
the software and look how it is done remember M$ is never a vriend
remeber!!: you must know your enemy beter than you know your self!!!
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this is BAD!!!!!
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the next thing will be Microslug buying up Amiga and shuting it down!!!!
as they do with anything they touch!
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does any of this really matter?
What if MS pulls their tricks on Amiga?
It's not like Amiga has been honest and open with the real community. It's not like Tao is not into Intellectual Property Generation. It's not like fleecy hasn't always been one wanting to own and control the property of others. It's not like Bill McE would be out of a job (he can always truck XBOXes across country...
So what if MS absorbs Amiga, they already have had access to all the Intellectual Property of the Amiga we have always known, thanks to Gateway and MS licensings.
MS certainly doesn't need Amiga for any of the Amiga technology we have known, so they must be interested what? NDAs?
Think about it! MS is going to find out what eve the Amiga community doesn't know???
lol
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Maybe this is why Amiga failed to make an appearance at Alt WOA and still have'nt announced appearing at any other Miggy shows!
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:-? I really don't think this is a great idea... Is this info already confirmed? I really doubt Microshit is that interested in AMIGA... Maybe is this just another 10 years old rumor...
:pint: Let's wait to see the facts...
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Well, nobody can say now that Microsoft doesn't know about Amiga. They most assuredly do. :)
Amiga stumbled upon Microsoft's plans, or direction anyway, and of course this was going to alert Microsoft. Welcome to the radar screen, Amiga. ;)
The problem isn't outside of Amiga, though; it's inside.
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One word.......
JAVA
Need I say more? or do we all have short memories these days?
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TAO held the International patents in unique translation method, similar to DOT NET. Perhaps MS want to avoid lawsuit. Another possibility: they want to see AMIGA DE ported to Win CE for attacking the new Palm OS on PDA.
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DEJA VU: In CEBIT 1995 EXPO, TAO show its product at MOTOROLA POWERPC booth. 2 years later, MOTOROLA bought shares of TAO Group. I hope MS will not buy AMIGA Inc shares from the bankrupt KOURI Capital / Invicible Hands.
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After reading some of the comments.
Amiga does have a say about being bought out.
And I can see Bill McEwen saying "Get out", after some MS exec's come into is office will a suitcase full of money.
They do have a say in these things guys, it is *there* company
~Betajaen
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Actually, I'd say the whole thing is more of a "PR", a la anti-trust-excersise, to give the public/DoJ an impression that Microsoft is willing to co-operate or at least not crush it's competitiors. Amiga is a perfect candidate, as Amiga is a small powerless company Microsoft doesn't care about as a serious competitor (at least not yet - perhaps they don't realise the potential..).
Remember, Amiga/TAO aren't the only ones in the world with a write-once-run-anywhere-embedded-portable-PDA environment.
Don't get me wrong, AmigaDE and their strategy has a future...
- Paul
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Hmm, perhaps I didn't write a clear message... by letting a non-MS company in their booth, basically they can try and shake the evil, crushing, stomping, cold and greedy mega-corporate image that it has.
Or maybe Fleecy just knows the MS guys setting up the booth and is hitching a ride at the show ;)
- Paul
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Hmmmmm,
And lets not forget that Microsoft HQ are 1 hour away
from Amiga Inc!!! ;)
Tim
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So what if MS absorbs Amiga, they already have had access to all the Intellectual Property of the Amiga we have always known, thanks to Gateway and MS licensings.
Please oh wise and great swami, enlighten us of your wisdoms and bear fruit so that our knowledge may be as vast as thine. Stuff like that is almost as bad as the tripe you hear from T.Rue in the newsgroups.
:evil:
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All depends why they want Amiga Inc to demo DE.
Would love to know more about this.
Why would they have Amiga Inc in a M$ booth demoing DE. It just doesn't make sense... I MUST NO MORE !!!! :-D
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I hate to put a dampener on things but if you look at http://mozamiga.mozdev.org/ (http://mozamiga.mozdev.org/) you'll see that it hasn't been updated for about seven months :-(
Still, if some DE coders were to go and help the guy out a bit, thinks might move along a bit... HINT HINT! :-)
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I guarantee it WAS Tim Rue!
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A few stories ago i said "Maybe thats what bill will be announcing - regarding the announcement he will make at embedded confrence (or whatever it is)".
:) Garry has said that they are going to be at their booth and that they asked Amiga Inc to demo some stuff.
Has anyone noticed how similar .NET is to Elate in technology?
Maybe Bill approached Bill and said, with your help we could squash SUN. Bill would have loved that :)...
Bill prolly found Bill through his connections at Gateway and word got out.
Are we a new memeber of the MS community?
I doubt it >:) - its bollocs, however if all ive said turns to be true , call me pyschic.
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Prolly demoing DE (or if my predictions above ar correct, .NET) on PocketPC running WindowsCE. :)
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I hate microsoft products, working with them every day ( as a sw developer ) and wanted to change. Brrr. I'm afraid it won't happen. If Amiga Inc. becomes a M$ slave this will be a disaster...
re
Treke
PS: sorry for strong worsds, I have had to say "I mean different abou Microsoft" :-)
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There is a former MS employee who work inside AMIGA Inc. Perhaps he is the mole. Another possibility: AMIGA DE /INTENT was sponsored by INTEL (MS partner), because of its agreement on Xscale (the CPU of PDAs).
This remind me of the beautiful DEVIL (Liz Hurley) in the movie: BEDAZZLED. :-(
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Yeah, great to see the DE finally catching some hype and attracting more coders :-D
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Sorry for being Anon people. I'm just too lazy to
register right now to make one small comment. :)
But all i've read since Amiga said they will have
a booth is gloom and doom and talk of takeovers.
Christ wake up. Yeah, M$ would love to get ahold
of the DE but fact is they can't and they arent
trying to. They are just showing the DE running
on a bunch of devices. Which we all knew and
expected the DE would do! How many OS's does the
DE already run on? Amiga (4.x), Windows, Linux,
MAC never made it, how many else? Not to mention
the devices its capable of running.
How does that translate into a takeover? Which
btw aint possible since Amiga is privately held.
Lets not forget that M$ worked with Amiga BEFORE
with Amiga BASIC. But admitedly it was a pile of
horse S|-|!7. They didn't steal Amiga from C= did
they. Why not sell a licence to M$ to use the DE
and charge em an arm and a leg for the privledge?
Hell, i'd love to see the DE packaged with WinXP
and every other OS out there.
Even then, nothing has been said other than,
"Look! It runs on this device." All this talk
about cash from M$, and contracts is fantasy.
Bill and Fleecy (and the rest of the crew) are
smart enough not to enter into a contract that
in any way shape or form limits thier rights to
controll and market the DE however small. Besides
which, a contract with M$ isn't needed to sell
the DE. They are doing pretty well on thier own.
Maybe, if Amiga is exceptionally lucky, M$ might
want to purchace a license to sell the DE or
package it with some future version of windows,
or write apps for the DE. That dosn't give M$
any controlling interest, or rights.
Ivan
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This is GOOD news as all companys which have bought amiga had went out of busnies maybe MS will buy amiga and go out of bussnies also :) Then we can all say Amiga killed MS :)
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microsozz must learning how makes a good OS? or is poor on ideas?
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Folks,
Now don't go reading more into this than there is. Amiga are not selling out to M$. You must also remember that the DE Player has been available on Windows for some time now, as has the SDK. Many companies demo their products via another companies booth (botths are expensive you know), it's quite common. Demoing at this show will be a great boost for Amiga. So what if it will be on PocketPC devices and at the MS booth so as long as more people become aware of what Amiga is doing.
One can get much farther by riding the dragon's tail than walking there on their own.
Cheers,
Darin.
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JAVA is a perfect example of what can happen when M$ "licens" a technology. You ppl want that to happen to AmigaDE?
No I didn't think so...
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As everyone is letting their imagination run wild ...... one other option would be that Amiga will be demoing MS Office running on AmigaDE.
:-o
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I think Ivan hit it on the head. This isn't anything special, there just demoing DE on WinCE PDAs etc..
cool
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I really don't see a problem here. As was previously mentioned, It's not uncommon for software companies to demo their stuff on other companies systems. AmigaDE runs under Windows so if you're going to demo it, you will need to run Windows. To take it a step further, a company that had developed a Photoshop plug-in would have no option but to demo it on Photoshop. To avoid Microsoft would be to avoid the whole issue of DE running under Windows which would be suicide in terms of PR. If they can actually get the opportunity to demo their stuff at the MS booth, they have a garunteed crowd to view it. This crowd will generally take anything they see at an MS display very seriously. Ladies and Gents, this is where Amiga cease to be a small company who's purpose is to take flack from the Amiga community and start to be a real business with the prospect of real customers and real profits.
On a side note, it's interesting that this should come up shortly after the Nokia announcement given this.... http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/24190.html
Also, check out the Registers reaction:http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/5/24209.html
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Hehe, they've even linked to Amiga.Org - perhaps my email caught their attention! ;)
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Wow, I didnt expect this much blind negativity so soon? especially when most of you dont know what your talking about?
I may not even *like* microsoft but let me point out a lighter side if I may.
On of the biggest ever fallings of the Amiga, and indeed every other computer platform is lack of useful, industry standard, quality productivity software. If Microsoft have now noticed the AmigaDE, it may lead to them porting IE to start with, Office? I think so, and that in iteslf is one hell of a step forward! When companies understand that Microsoft see value not only the AmigaDE, but how it can benifit the bottom line via platform independence at native CPU speeds, what other world class companies are going to start considering the opprtunity? I believe we could see lightwave make a return, and photoshop in the pipe line, not to mention a few hundred more popular titles on the way.
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Just wish they'd have linked before the site turned into a construction area. :-(
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TO be fair, M$ looks at pretty much every product at the market at some point. When you have that much money you can research anything. However, I can see distinct problems, any technology that M$ looks at tends to get licenced and then re-worked as a Windows compatible only technology.
This stage may mean nothing, Or it may be the begining.. either way no matter what we write on Amiga org, the outcome will still be the same.
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MS have nothing to do with Java. Its fully controled by SUN. Why do you think .NET exists?
Its MS's plan to kill Java!
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I don't think microsoft is good for amiga either, but they may have been good for sega. it was actually sony that killed sega's consumer hardware biz. now sega can release games on xbox, gamecube and ps2. that's bad for me though, cos i don't know which to buy :)
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Hmmm, judging my MS's reputation, it would be easy to think that they are intending to swallow Amiga or pinch its ideas, write their own version, patent it and then try and sue Amiga for pinching their ideas :)
Personally, I'd just wait and see what "goes down".
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1. Microsoft want .NET on AmigaDE
2. Microsoft wants AmigaDE
3. Microsoft wants to kill AmigaDE
4. Microsoft wants to to something bad to AmigaDE
5. Microsoft wants WindowsDE
6. Microsoft wants to eat AmigaDE
7. Microsoft wants to make MicrosoftReversEngineeredAmigaDE
8. Microsoft wants it soooo bad, that AmigaDE
9. Microsoft wants to make IE for AmigaDE, so that the size get to be 12389 GB instead of 1MB
10. Microsoft just wants to kill me for making this list.
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Hahahahahaha... There needs to be a JoeCartoon on that one! :)
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Remember that scene in the movie The Pirates of Silicon Valley (about Apple and Microsoft), where Bill Gates wheels in a new Apple product and is violently shouting, "I WANT THIS! I'VE GOT TO HAVE THIS FOR WINDOWS" or something similar?
;) Well...
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CAUTION SUICIDAL MERGER ON SIGHT!
X-|
Don´t let this happen!
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Hmmmm...... This really is bizzare. MS are dirty dealers - no doubt about it. I remember that there was this old animation package called Animation Master (nicknamed HASH after its author, Martin Hash) Rumour is that MS looked at his software - bought some of the source code, and took it away to have a go at reverse engineering it - and prevent Hash from continuing its development ...... eventually Hash was able get his source back. Not a nice way to do buisness. Be careful - better still, dont jump into bed with the Devil. If another company was this into DE - Apple for example - I wouldnt be so negative. But this is MS......
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It's funny you should mention industry standard quality software. Unless I'm very much mistaken, Microsoft are not in the industry standard quality software buisness, they're in the propriety format, bloatware buisness. Name just one standard that Microsoft have set in all the years it's been the dominating force in the computer industry. Name just one Microsoft product that is functionally superior to ALL OTHER competitive products available. Right, now that we've firmly establised that Microsoft are peddling mediocre non-standard software, and on top of that hold a dangerous, and illegal monopoly on the Operating system market, what makes you think, even for a second, that they're gonna play nice with Amiga? Did we really learn so little from Caldera, Netscape, Corel, Oracle and SUN? All of them are (or where) financially stronger than Amiga is now.
Popular titles are not going to happen for AmigaDE, no matter how interesting. Look at Linux and MacOS! Both have infinitely larger marketshares than DE, and neither of them have all the more popular titles. Linux is particularilly lacking in that respect. IMHO it would be better to ally with Steve Jobs and Apple. They have patents and technology, Microsoft only have the money. And how do you get lots and lots of money, BY NOT SPENDING IT. Particularilly by NOT SPENDING it on porting your flagship titles for PDA's that do not have nearly the CPU, RAM or Storage capacities needed to run Microsoft products.
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I really dont like this....... :-x
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Think what would happen if AMIGA bought-out Microsoft! It would be so cool :pint:
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RE: the idiotic reply to my previous post,
Do your research, MacOS has IE and office already, hello! M$ do port their software to other platforms. In the personal computer realm, M$ dont make much money off Windows, but they make a $#@!load off office so they are willing to spread it around without the OS.
> Microsoft are not in the industry standard quality software buisness
MS office, hello! yes its bloatware but its the industry standard, IE is once again the industry standard web broweser, hello! QED. not great quality but as you see later in my post, that is beside the point.
>NOT SPENDING it on porting your flagship titles for PDA's
yes they do,(here it comes) HELLO!, i dont like it but im just illistrating that your a half-wit, do some research idiot.
However i wasnt implying that MS software is in general what we want, perhaps IE would be good as it will give us standards, but mozilla is also a fantastic alternative (when they fix a few css glitches) its the adobe, newtek and other world class software producers that im interested in. MS can be used by us to unwittingly generate a huge amount of interest in Amiga and Amiga DE. btw, you people can be so short sighted. Who says its about sitting back and letting bill ruin our platform, how about we use him for our purposes >:-)
ps, im no MS supporter, i imagine i dispise them more then most of you, but im not going to be blinded by ignorance as most of you people seems to be doing. At least if i know what im talking about by keeping an open mind, i will know how to fight them all the better.
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M$ did not help SGI or Dreamcast, they raped and pillaged what they wanted and left the companys to die in the aftermath. On SGI they raped all the 3D apps and OpenGL. Also don't forget M$ and Nvida stole UMA idea from the SGI O2 for the X-Box. Sega also got a royal raping from M$ on Dreamcast! playing with M$ is playng with the death of your company!
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Its true that Microsoft is bad news. Irespective of what they may do to Amiga or any other company - there presence is enough to split the user base.
Shoot me if you think I dont know what I'm talking about - I really dont care. I've just been to aparty and really stuufed things up.
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that was me - Bobsonsirjonny. Sorry - I didfnt mean to post anoimously. Forgot to log in.
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publied: As stated millions of times before M$ does not have it's own ideas, they just look around and pick and choose from others to get the good pieces. As we've all seen(?), the methodology is flawed.
Darin: Until the dragon spots you catching a free ride..
Elektro: We have already passed that stage already; M$ have .net.
Housey: "...AAAND IT'S ORGANIC!" (Quote from the cartoon Duckman)
teotwin: Writing "industry standard" in the same sentence as you write M$?! Shame on you. Everyone else seems to know the fact that M$ obeys just as many standards as they have original ideas in their products. M$ not making much money of Win?! I quote from the movie A Fish Called Wanda: "Hi, you had an IQ-test and the results came back negative." Win alone probably gain a profit way beyond my countrys GNP. They probably earn more money selling office, but it's not exactly pocketchange either. I have nothing agaist you, you just earned this one.
Anonymous: Rape this, rape that. Rape yourself. SGIs UMA is no secret and SEGA knew who they where dealing with. SEGA don't exactly get poorer by selling software for X-box. Wonder if Marvel can sue M$ for a buck of two (X-Men)? SEGA-grodor (joke on Swedish, sorry for being non-intl)
BillyBobsonsirjonny: Hehehe! Couldn't help myself. Please don't shoot me!
And to potential commenters: Don't write something like "You can't avoid M$ if you're in the software buissness". Just don't go there...
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It wouldn't surprise me if M$ are gonna take over Amiga Inc, if they are so impressed as Gary Peak says.
x303 :-o
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People please!!! This is just like saying Microsoft are going to take over Adobe.
btw This is KenH....I can't register for some reason.
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Jetracer: maybe I should edit my sig :-D
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aaaarrrgh not logged in !
Where r those cookies?!
Anywayz - last post was me.
housey
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There's some kind of bug with the cookies. Waiting on a fix now.
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This got XFILES written all over it.....Mulder I need you
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Ive just had four wisdom teeth out an hour ago so excuse me if i come accross as a little groggy.
JetRacer, you have the term industry standard and standards wrong. Standards relate to globally accepted formats, interfaces, protocols etc etc. An industry standard refers to a product that is the most widely accepted and used package in it genre. So may point still stands, Microsofts Office is the industry standard, ie in the industry standard broser etc etc. Yes the make their oun standards, but the are the industry standards.
eg, Adobe photoshop is the insustry standard image manipulation packed, but it uses its own standards.
And Hello! regarding windows not making all the money. Go do some research, first of all, i did menion at im refering to the consumern level only, where they DO get way more revenue from office and other software titles. Its a fact.
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Housey: I'm just teasing.
teotwin: sorry, I was a bit sleepy when I wrote that. I thought you meant that M$ followed standards and AOS not. If I had payed attention I would have noticed that you wrote *Industry Standard(tm). And I still claim that they don't loose money lessing windows =) I speak of experience when I say: You got my sympathy (I had a wisdom tooth surgically removed once -not a nice experience).
*Industry Standard(tm) is a M$ Trademark. ;-)
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god damn, some of you folks act as though you have any insight into the way the industry works. Please, go back to reading your books and shut up already.
Almost as bad as ann.lu dweebs.
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:-o Eigh to Brutus Or something like that.
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Very, very bizarre. Mind you, it would be nice if certain things made their way onto DE, like flash etc, to load websites properly. Maybe M$ might even learn a little about what makes good apps, instead of thinking size is everything.
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If Microsoft buys out Amiga and all the rights to names tech etc. then there wil NEVER (Never= as long as Microsoft exists) be another Amiga computer. b.t.w is it a Boing Ball i saw upon the My Pictures folder in WinXP
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That would be bad, if microsoft learned to make apps, instead of bad promises, they`d own the world. Because then, there would be NO resistance
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Non of this really matters, the Amiga died years ago along with Commodore. all Amiga Inc seem interested in creating is a Windows replacement version of Workbench. the Amiga performes better than other computers due to its system architecture, not just the size of the software. what i dont see anywhere is the answer to the following question, and maybe someone can put me right on this point, is the Amigaone true to the Amiga architecture (no i dont mean has it got the Amiga custom chips!). or is it just another pc motherboard.
If its not true Amiga architecture, then forget this Microsoft buying Amiga inc stuff, because there wont be another REAL Amiga again anyway.