Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga.org site announcements => Topic started by: on May 13, 2009, 04:41:39 PM
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Good morning ladies and gents,
In regards to the other discussions about the necessary site changes and upgrades, I think we're getting there.
To let you see what I mean, feel free to check out the work in progress at http://www.amiga.org/forums
Some notes:
- Quite horribly discovered after purchasing the package is that vBulletin (my choice for migration) relies almost exclusively on Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) which is a now-standard technology on every browser on the planet except, unfortunately, for the Classic Amiga. Next Generation Amiga browsers reportedly handle it 99% fine.
As much as I wanted to stay with the antiquated HTML 3.x standard, unfortunately the web, and the world, have moved on. This should only affect about 6-8% of users, even less since most of those already have other means available for viewing the site.
- All users, all threads, and all posts were migrated on a test basis as of 5/8, so all threads/posts you see there are older. Hopefully this weekend, when we are "close enough", I'll turn this site off for a while (to get a clean migration) then transfer it all over to the new site.
- Not everything is 100% yet and I'm open to constructive feedback. I simply need you to understand that most things are being considered, but remarks like "this sucks" or "scrap it all and go back to the way it was" aren't particularly friendly or helpful. As my mom used to say, "don't complain unless you can offer a solution to the problem" :-)
- the site you see there is "just forums". Yes, we know, but what we'll do once the site is live is use what they call a "blank page mod" to create new sections of the site as we go, such as "/news", /gallery, /marketplace and so-forth.
- None of the data from this current site will be lost. A full backup will be maintained of both data and files (such as pictures). It may simply take a while to get a bit of it back online, and since the forums were the key bit of this site, they take priority.
- things such as "ranks" have been migrated, but the images don't yet appear in the forums. The words, yes, but not the images. Working on it.
All that being said, I look forward to your feedback.
Wayne
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looks nice.
one of the things I've collected over the years is a huge list of bookmarked threads (notifications on this site) which I assume is called "subscribed" threads on the new system.
will these be transfered or do I need to make a note of them before the site moves?
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The Amiga.org logo looks nicely sharp against the deep blue gradient.
Thanks for your work on this project.
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My personal thoughts:
- Like the design
- Love the logo
- Don't particularly care about loss of Amiga browsers
I think that's about it, except thanks for your hard work :-)
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moto
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Getting a page not found, guess your tinkering.
@ wayne
worked it out, the link in your post has a fullstop at the end :-D
Oh and my post count in out by 600 odd :-D
But liking the work. Long live wayne and amiga.org
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cecilia wrote:
will these be transfered or do I need to make a note of them before the site moves?
Unfortunately since vBulletin is a new system, old links can't work -- even if we wanted them to.
You might need to make note of certain keywords in each thread (or check your own posts) to find / bookmark them under the new system.
Wayne
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@jj,
regarding post counts.
I mentioned it in another of the RFD threads that ab out 75000 or so posts were not valid and can't be migrated. They're invalid due to several factors including a data corruption issue we had in 2002 or so, along with users who've moved on, threads that were deleted (seems Xoops does a crappy job at deleting every post in a thread when you delete it) -- either that or MySQL drops the queue there. Not sure.
The end result is that EVERYONE who posted a lot loses a little bit under the new system. I for example go from 3200+ to about 1900+ or so.
Sorry, but effectively since Xoops has all these corrupted/orphaned posts, most people's post counts are invalid anyway..
Wayne
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@Wayne: even tough im a long term member here, that is not reflected in my posts. Im more in the "i-read-everything-i-can" kind of member, but i definetely like a lot the new visual style the page has.
I dont know why, but it seems "clearer", i mean, i can see much more, and read better than in the current design. Strange but true
I can ony say im sorry for those 6-8% of Amiga users who browse the site using Amiga browsers. Since this is an Amiga-based site, it should be possible to be able to surf the site using Amiga browsers but hey, if Mohammed doesnt go to the montain, the montain has to go to Mohammed!!
I mean, come on guys! Amiga developers!! This is a great chance to show your skills to the community and try to develop a compatible browser!! Or maybe upgrade/improve Voyager/AWeb/IBrowse or whatever other choices are available!!!
Saying this, im not a programmer (quite sad since i would love to do it myself) but any of you guys have my full support!
And Wayne, yes, im with you 100% on this. The new look is great, just one dumb question: will be there a "homepage" with the news just like now or everything will be like the new forums page???
Keep on going!!!
Sebastian
PD: i guess i will not be loosing many messages, so i will be a "Guru" soon :-D
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Gavilan wrote:
just one dumb question: will be there a "homepage" with the news just like now or everything will be like the new forums page???
First, thanks for the support.
In reference to your question, I was just working on an FAQ update for the new site which should help;
http://www.amiga.org/forums/faq.php?faq=migration#faq_whereis
Wayne
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I'd like to see longer "Latest posts" list and in the old style that only one (and latest) per thread. With the post count preferably :)
I've used to check the forum by them. As the main forum has way too many sub categories IMHO. It's too messy and painful to browse them all through all the time.
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@pvc
When the site is used live, the "New Posts" link at the top should be what you're looking for. Just bookmark or otherwise use that.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/search.php?do=getnew
Wayne
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Hmmmm, I was surprised to see my post count drop under the new system given my post-2002 join date. Not a big deal, just interesting. Might it be due to comments in the photo gallery not carrying over? EDIT: Oh, nevermind. Having re-read your post, Wayne, I see there are multiple data issues involved.
Can I suggest making the Latest Posts module on the righthand side into a Latest Active Threads module? It seems a little redundant to have multiple posts within the same thread using up slots. And is it possible to keep the sidebars within a thread like we have now?
IBrowse seems able to handle the basic functionality, so hooray.
Out of curiosity, how does the new system compute "active members"?
I'll hold off on other comments until things are more finalized.
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Matt_H wrote:
Hmmmm, I was surprised to see my post count drop under the new system given my post-2002 join date. Not a big deal, just interesting. Might it be due to comments in the photo gallery not carrying over?
Only active forum posts are counted. By active, I mean valid. Xoops may count forum, photo, news, and other comments. Dunno, but keep in mind the 75000 orphaned posts which didn't make it.
Can I suggest making the Latest Posts module on the righthand side into a Latest Active Threads module? It seems a little redundant to have multiple posts within the same thread using up slots.
I'll see what I can do, but that code came with the template and isn't mine.
As said above, 99% of you will use the "new posts" page anyway.. so latest posts may go away in lieu of other content. It's just there now because it is. :-)
And is it possible to keep the sidebars within a thread like we have now?
"sidebars within a thread"? You mean left and right columns? If so, then not currently. Sorry.
IBrowse seems able to handle the basic functionality, so hooray.
I know it'll look {bleep}e, but at least it's good to know it's there.
Out of curiosity, how does the new system compute "active members"?
Will double check, but I believe it's people who've logged in and/or posted in the last 90 days.
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looking really good and finally modern
go for it !
Tom UK
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I like the way amiga.org looks now, I really do!
But the new site seems to work "okay" with IBrowse, so I do not have any reason to complain.
@Wayne
I appreciate your work to keep amiga.org online :-)
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taunusand wrote:
I like the way amiga.org looks now, I really do!
Trust me, if I could have clicked a button and imported the theme, I would have. The current theme however is HTML. The new system is 99% CSS.
While I could go through and edit out the CSS from every single template on vBulletin, over 3/4 of it's usability would be broken by doing so.
As such, it's a matter of sacrificing the pure classic compatibility (which affects maybe 5 people in total) or embracing the CSS for the greater good..
"The greater good..."
"shut it..!"
(favorite quote from "Hot Fuzz", a brilliant comedy)
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It is going to be sad (not to mention ironic) that an Amiga dedicated site will no longer be viewable on a Legacy Amiga. But it's about the content right? And that should always prevail. Still, I'll be saddened as I am one of the '5' that use A.org with an Amiga.
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It is ironic, and it's painful, and it's a sore point with me. As someone who really sort of gave up with site gui design about 7 years ago BECAUSE the Amiga couldn't move forward, I hate it as much as you do. Trust me. :)
I "understand" CSS, but it seems incredibly overcomplicated to me for what it is. On the other hand, it solves a LOT of problems with layout and design. It also generally makes sites much faster, and usually much lighter (not as much bandwidth) so there's good and bad in both approaches.
Wayne
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And is it possible to keep the sidebars within a thread like we have now?
"sidebars within a thread"? You mean left and right columns? If so, then not currently. Sorry.
Doh. That's probably my favorite "look and feel" feature of the site. Oh well.
IBrowse seems able to handle the basic functionality, so hooray.
I know it'll look {bleep}e, but at least it's good to know it's there.
Believe me, it looks damn good compared to a lot of CSS sites.
Thanks for your work on all this.
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Looks super. Nice job.
Any chance of designing the designation icons on the threads in the style of old WB 1.3 style icons?
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Believe me, it looks damn good compared to a lot of CSS sites.
Thanks for your work on all this.
thats right, just set background color to white in prefs and youre fine. and there is "mobile" skin for vbullettin, maybe it will be selectable. With it its pretty fast browsing, even on A1200+030 in 16 cols 8-)
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Wayne, is this new demo site not supposed to be accessible on our Legacy computers? Sure seems to be. I've got 2 iBrowse windows going and just replied to your test thread on the other side.
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It'll supposedly "work" but it won't look as good as a theme coded for HTML 3.x on the classic.
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AWESOMEZ! I am still a "Defender of the Faith" by 1 post. :lol: And now, a "Senior Member"....I guess I've become geriatric in Amiga terms.
I like the site, Wayne, but is that Topaz I spy? *YUCK* Oh and I'm afraid I'll have to deny your request to take Amiga.org offline this weekend for a "proper migration". You're gonna have to figure out another way to do it.
I'll need my fix. :-P
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Wayne wrote:
cecilia wrote:
will these be transfered or do I need to make a note of them before the site moves?
Unfortunately since vBulletin is a new system, old links can't work -- even if we wanted them to.
You might need to make note of certain keywords in each thread (or check your own posts) to find / bookmark them under the new system.
Wayne
ok, thanks
what I'm doing is saving a "mht" file of my notification list. that gives me the title to any thread, news item, image, etc that I SO desperately need to "save". :lol:
That way I can do a search for the title (which hopefully won't change). Thanks for the heads up. I'm all set!
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Thumbs up from me Wayne!!! Thanks for all your hard work :-)
BTW...How does one become a VIP member?
Edit...Just been having a little fiddle with the new site and I'm really liking it, everything seems easy to find and there are a heap of really cool new features. I'm lovin' it :lol:
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Narf! I lost 1600 posts. Must be all those interesting topics I post in as a moderator. :lol:
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Hi Wayne
Thanks for the explanation. I am not overly bothered. But Im not far off the 2000 mark here and was looking fwd to my new status. :-D
But Im glad to see we can move foward and things will improve. Thanks for your continued support and time you invest in this site.
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Wayne wrote:
"The greater good..."
"shut it..!"
(favorite quote from "Hot Fuzz", a brilliant comedy)
Heh! One of the best!
And good work with the new A.Org - looks great.
- Ali
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first impression:
very sharp, very clean looking.....I like it so far.
I need to play with it a bit more....
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I just noticed that my private messages are not transfered
if anyone wants to save any info they better do it now before the transition to the new site
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Wayne wrote:
@jj,
regarding post counts.
I mentioned it in another of the RFD threads that ab out 75000 or so posts were not valid and can't be migrated. They're invalid due to several factors including a data corruption issue we had in 2002 or so, along with users who've moved on, threads that were deleted (seems Xoops does a crappy job at deleting every post in a thread when you delete it) -- either that or MySQL drops the queue there. Not sure.
75000! :shocked:
The end result is that EVERYONE who posted a lot loses a little bit under the new system. I for example go from 3200+ to about 1900+ or so.
Sorry, but effectively since Xoops has all these corrupted/orphaned posts, most people's post counts are invalid anyway..
Wayne
A little bit? You are losing almost half of your posts...
2002 was before my time, lucky me.
A question:
What means "RFD"? I've seen it used in topic titles a few times recently.
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Viking wrote:
A question:
What means "RFD"? I've seen it used in topic titles a few times recently.
Net abbreviate -- "Request for Discussion"
Also, just because a post was pre-2002 does not mean anyone's safe. True, the majority of orphaned posts were from the start of the db, BUT, not all of them.
Remember, orphaned posts are caused by deleted users, as well as simple data corruption from when a thread is deleted as well. As we've never stopped deleting threads (like whenever Doomy shows up) Xoops seems to orphan the threads underneath the thread start, meaning that while they may or may not still be there, they just don't show up.
Wayne
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@cecelia,
Karlos is working on PM import, but no promises. PM's shouldn't really be kept forever anyway.
Wayne
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Wayne wrote:
@cecelia,
Karlos is working on PM import, but no promises. PM's shouldn't really be kept forever anyway.
Wayne
Yep, with any luck I'll be on that tonight.
BTW, Wayne, did you get my last email?
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Got them all, this morning. Check your mail.
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Many thanks.
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Note: The uploading of avatars has been fixed.
100 x 100 x 65k
Wayne
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Wayne wrote:
Net abbreviate -- "Request for Discussion"
Also, just because a post was pre-2002 does not mean anyone's safe. True, the majority of orphaned posts were from the start of the db, BUT, not all of them.
"Start of the db", what is db abbreviate for?
Sorry for asking about simple stuff.. :oops:
Remember, orphaned posts are caused by deleted users, as well as simple data corruption from when a thread is deleted as well. As we've never stopped deleting threads (like whenever Doomy shows up) Xoops seems to orphan the threads underneath the thread start, meaning that while they may or may not still be there, they just don't show up.
Wayne
No chance for data recovery? Well I guess since you don't recover it, it's either impossible, too much work, or too expensive.
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Viking wrote:
"Start of the db", what is db abbreviate for?
Sorry for asking about simple stuff.. :oops:
My guess would be "database."
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Why,
why any of this? What exactly is the benefit? An even better question, what wrong with the site right now.
Don't get it...... less Amiga friendly? WTF am I missing? I have used this site for years with out problems... now we need to upgrade..... Almost as silly as "upgrading" to vista while XP is working well.........
If it ain't broke don't fix it?
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guru-666 wrote:
Why,
why any of this? What exactly is the benefit? An even better question, what wrong with the site right now.
Don't get it...... less Amiga friendly? WTF am I missing? I have used this site for years with out problems... now we need to upgrade..... Almost as silly as "upgrading" to vista while XP is working well.........
If it ain't broke don't fix it?
FYI it was broke.
If you have not been following the threads regarding why the upgrade was needed I suggest you go through all the posts and damn well do that before throwing a hissy fit.
There was a reason and Wayne is probably tired of explaining his decision over and over again.
Remember posting on a site that doesn't belong to you is a privilege not a right. :roll:
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GadgetMaster wrote:
FYI it was broke.
I can imagine this version under PHP 5.2+ would have a fair few issues.
Remember posting on a site that doesn't belong to you is a privilege not a right. :roll:
Very true.
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guru-666 wrote:
Why,
why any of this? What exactly is the benefit? An even better question, what wrong with the site right now.
Don't get it...... less Amiga friendly? WTF am I missing? I have used this site for years with out problems... now we need to upgrade..... Almost as silly as "upgrading" to vista while XP is working well.........
If it ain't broke don't fix it?
It is "broken".
Start reading here:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41380
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Well then, I can't tell it's broken....
no fuss or any such thing, calm down mind police.
Still feel that its an overreaction, but what ever wyane wants to do...
Tiss my opinion that the site does not need a new look it works well for me. If it's broken for you, I'm sorry.
Infact I much prefer the look we have right now over the beta site wyane posted... which is confusing and less usable. Voted that way also.
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guru-666 wrote:
Why,
why any of this? What exactly is the benefit? An even better question, what wrong with the site right now.
Don't get it...... less Amiga friendly? WTF am I missing? I have used this site for years with out problems... now we need to upgrade..... Almost as silly as "upgrading" to vista while XP is working well.........
If it ain't broke don't fix it?
As has been explained, Wayne's host is changing software and the existing software upon which the site is built will cease to function afterward through no fault of Wayne's. So if it's not broken now it soon will be unless Wayne intervenes with this migration. It's all here... just read. :roll:
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Why,
why any of this? What exactly is the benefit? An even better question, what wrong with the site right now.
Don't get it...... less Amiga friendly? WTF am I missing? I have used this site for years with out problems... now we need to upgrade..... Almost as silly as "upgrading" to vista while XP is working well.........
If it ain't broke don't fix it?
I quite aggree with guru-666.
But then I have never really been a fan of vBuletin.
I suppose all will be fine as long as it all works correctly.
The font in the logo on the new site really must be changed though. Its not that I dislike fonts like that (I had Topaz set as my Windows font for the last few months and quite enjoyed it), but I don't think it really fits in very well.
I prefer the theme on the existing site, and I would like it if the new site could be made to somehow resemble it, but I do like the colour scheme on the new site. It could all be alot worse.