Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: guest3110 on May 08, 2009, 11:37:33 PM
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Poll Question:
Which word, in your opinion, best describes AMIGA today--DEAD or ALIVE? (i.e, did it burn up in its own ashes, or not.)
Only possible answers to pick from (choose one):
DEAD or ALIVE
*note: the question has nothing to do with the future. It is about the 'state of Amiga' as you see it.
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100% ALIVE
I have just upgraded the firmware on my Minimig!!!
:-)
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DEAD
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You must allow this variation.
DEAD-DEAD-DEADSKI.
(name that movie.)
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By my estimation, demand for new and old Amiga equipment has actually increased in the past couple of years. By that measure, I will have to say ALIVE. (Atari ST is a good example of DEAD?)
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As DEAD as a-line flares!
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ALIVE:
- A3000(T) 030@25Mhz + ROM3.1 + 16Mo Fast + PPS040@33Mhz Mercury 32Mo
+ PICASSO II + VLAB Y/C + VLAB MOTION + VD2001/VSC-10
+ Z3 FASTLANE 16Mo + Tandem IDE + CDROM + Samsung SyncMaster 950p 19"
- A2500/030@25Mhz/ECS + 8Mo + ROM3.1 + HDD100Mo + RETINA Z2 v1
+ GVP I/O EXTENDER + MIDI + LG Flatron F700B 17";
- A2000HD/ECS + 6Mo + HDD52Mo + Switch ROM 1.3/3.0 + 1084S-P1;
- A1200 + HDD 5Go + 1083S ;
- A600 + CF1Go + 1084S
- A500 KS1.3 + 512MB + MIDI
- C64-II + 1541 + 1541-II + Power Cartridge + Final Cartridge III
- GST GOLD AMIGA + DIGI GOLD PRO + GVP G-LOCK
Definitely dead for my 2 A3000-030@2Mhz Motherboard :evil:
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Shame on some of you! To say the Amiga is "dead" on this site is a slap in the face to the Deneb team, Indivision, Amigakit, Red, Softhut *US* and everyone else associated with reselling, developing, supporting, etc.
I know this thread is kinda early, but like I tell soooooo many other clueless people I run into each and every day:
NOTHING is dead or "obsolete" if you still use and enjoy it.
Doesn't matter if it's a computer, an auto, feelings for either, MUSIC (especially), yada, yada, yada.
How dare anyone ever exclaim that something is "dead". Unless of course, you're talking about chivalry, common sense, class, decency and awareness. ALL of these things used to be part of society and you MAY say are all but dead today, but NEVER the Amiga :-)
Can anyone truly ever say that their first love and the feelings they have for them are "dead"?
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DEAD
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Explicitly speaking - I say the Amiga and its spirit is more alive than most of the deadbeat corporate robot zombies that comprise most all of todays modern society :-D
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Explicit votes only. :-D Has to be DEAD or ALIVE.
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Amiga as a commercial viability *at the current time*. Company, community, availability, market, common public usage.
Not really the Amiga *machine* you might have in your closet. :)
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My Amiga has never been in the closet. That is to say, it never needed to come out! It was born proud, right and just :-)
Oh - I think I hear what you're saying. Well, this question is best left answered to the people still making money on this platform then. See my original post (1st paragraph). They would not tell you the Amiga is dead. Unless they are all gluttons! (some are, and may God bless them!!)
I've spent more than $1.5k within the past few months on this obsolete stuff. Would that money be better spent elsewhere? Umm... let's see: I bought Micro$oft Office & the entire Adobe Creative Suite 4 (Mac). And without a doubt... the Amiga investment is vastly superior. I have my reasons for fronting the cash on this Adobe crap (absolutely hate ALL of it) and the Office garbage (for strict Word compatibility)- but both purchases centred around my GF getting a job -which she finally landed at half the pay she was used to getting (yay). I totally resent spending XXX on these two "suites" that I will be getting almost zero use out of while I adore all the goodies I recently spent on my Amigas.
At this point, I'd actually be quite happy dumping this modern crap off on someone that can make use of it, rather than it collect dust on my shelf or HD's. I'm not a tard when it comes to editing photos or taking good quality photos, or making a website for that matter - but this Adobe suite is for the birds. No wonder it's current... you have to go to school in order to perform basic functions for crying out loud! Student pricing on this crap... anyone? lol
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A phoenix cannot rise from its own ashes...until is has burned and died to form ashes. Get me? :lol:
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SH1T
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eets ALIVE!!!!
very much alive, join efnet IRC #amiga, 40 users or more, I think Eric Schwartz says it best here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mg6wrYCT9Q .
those saying dead are either lying to us or to themselves.
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So far...
ALIVE: 3
DEAD: 5
and, apparently 74 people under Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDAs) :lol:
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Both. Living Dead munching on brains.
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The song is about the game portal which doesn't run on an Amiga.
Opus wrote:
eets ALIVE!!!!
very much alive, join efnet IRC #amiga, 40 users or more, I think Eric Schwartz says it best here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mg6wrYCT9Q .
those saying dead are either lying to us or to themselves.
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Active community = A.org, AW.net, Amigans.net, EAB.org, MorphZone.org, etc., etc., etc.,
New hardware available = SAM440ep & flex, Efika, Deneb, Minimig v1.1, IndivisionAGA 1200&4000/CD32, etc.
New applications and games = too lazy to look them up and create a list.
New Amiga related projects = NatAmi, GBA1000, porting AmigaOS4.x to Pegasos2 and MorphOS3.0 to MacMini, plus many more.
I can't remember any year out of the last ten years that we have had more activity in the Amiga community than 2008 and first 5 months of 2009.
With all of the above happening, how can anyone vote DEAD?
My vote = ALIVE!!!
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Okay, let's see...
from amigadave:
Active community = A.org, AW.net, Amigans.net, EAB.org, MorphZone.org, etc., etc., etc.,
Even Hitler had|has fans. :lol:
New hardware available = SAM440ep & flex, Efika, Deneb, Minimig v1.1, IndivisionAGA 1200&4000/CD32, etc.
Well, some of this no doubt thrills those with Amiga Classic machines; but, to others, it's the "wrong hardware" for a viable platform.
New applications and games = too lazy to look them up and create a list.
Ditto what I said above about the hardware. These titles would not be playable on anything others have or would wish to have.
New Amiga related projects = NatAmi, GBA1000, porting AmigaOS4.x to Pegasos2 and MorphOS3.0 to MacMini, plus many more.
Risking the invariable mention of AROS-on-x86|64 :lol:, there doesn't seem to be a porting project of Amiga OS to x86-64, which has always been the bigger pool or market.
I can't remember any year out of the last ten years that we have had more activity in the Amiga community than 2008 and first 5 months of 2009.
They say that the stem cell research will lead to cures for this. :-D Just kidding.
In screenwriting, there is a difference between 'activity' and 'action'. I want to see some action in the Amiga world.
With all of the above happening, how can anyone vote DEAD?
My vote = ALIVE!!!
Your vote is now registered. :-)
Just as a sidenote here, I think Carl Sassenrath is under Non-Disclosure with Amiga Inc. I've asked him a couple of times now if he's working on OS 5 with them, and no response about it--not even a "Much as you'd like it to be true, no." :-P And to think, he periodically talks with Bill McEwen.
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ALIVE.
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Okay. Now tied.
ALIVE: 5
DEAD: 5
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Alive!
We have more hardware available than there has been for years. The platform evolving at a faster pace than it ever has in the past. The hardware side of the platform is now 100% in the hands of people that actually want to make and sell Amiga hardware.
If we could get AROS ported to the MiniMig I believe we would see even more interesting things happening.
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ALIVE: 6
DEAD: 5
I want to see Wayne's vote. Where you at, Wayne? :-D
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Dead@1992
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Alive
Mini-mig
Sam 440
Aros and E-UAE
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ambidextrous
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When your equipment winds up here, then its dead.
(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/3378/1_3357.jpg)
Otherwise, its "alive", as long as you use it. :python:
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ALIVE: 8
DEAD: 6
crawff: ALIVE
bloodline: DEAD
tone007: DEAD
orb85750: ALIVE
mingle: DEAD
VingTrois: DEAD
save2600: ALIVE
EyeAm: DEAD
Opus: ALIVE
persia: living dead does not count :-)
amigadave: ALIVE
SamuraiCrow: ALIVE
Belial6: ALIVE
amiga92570: DEAD (ambidextrous does not count :-) )
trekiej: ALIVE
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For those voting DEAD who ALSO are heavy users of Amiga.org, can you provide a justification? Why devote so much time here?
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Well, I'm not a heavy user of Amiga.org (just a Beginner, as you can see--forty something posts--not a Cult Member like some--so, I don't have any Kool Aid :lol:), but...
I'm just hoping for what a lot hope for: Amiga OS on x86-64 motherboards (like those from ABIT, MSI, ASUS, and so on). You know, since they decided to be a 'software-only' corporation, that should render them 'hardware-agnostic', so long as their boxed OS sells, right? :-D
Just think of Windows XP, Windows Vista, or Windows 7, and where those reside, and replace those OSes with "Amiga OS" (not in name, mind you, but I mean put Amiga OS in those arenas, on the same hardware). THEN, Amiga will be back. Til then, it's DEAD. :-P
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until the average grandmother has heard of Amiga, its dead to 99% of the world.
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@EyeAm: Hey hey I change my vote as "ALIVE"... :-D
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Oh, I see, VingTrois. Peer pressure. :lol:
I guess continuing is fruitless, anyway. It appears that Amiga is alive--guess I'll run down to Walmart or Sears, or go to New Egg and pick one up. :lol:
(sidenote: Software Hut really should update their site. 2006, people. Really.) :-P
I guess it's not done dying yet.
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orb85750 wrote:
For those voting DEAD who ALSO are heavy users of Amiga.org, can you provide a justification? Why devote so much time here?
Just because the platform is dead, that doesn't stop me enjoying using it or lessen my knowledge and experience of it!
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quarkx wrote:
until the average grandmother has heard of Amiga, its dead to 99% of the world.
It is worse than that... I'm dating a 20 year old, even the most geeky of her friends (some of whom are as old as 24) have no knowledge of the Amiga. The Amiga has passed out of living memory of the computer generation. The Amiga is dead...
I showed some of these youngsters my A1200 running, I got blank faces... And the odd comment that it looks a bit like Window95 but "flatter"...
This is the reality of Amiga.
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@bloodline,
You're spot on...
It's been and gone. It was certainly great while it lasted...
In the same was as my C64 will never be mainstream and is 'dead' as a viable system, so has passed the Amiga.
I still love playing the games and tinkering with DPaint, but that's as 'alive' as the Amiga will ever be for me...
The advantage we have over these youngsters, is that we were there to bask in the light of the heyday of the Amiga...
Cheers,
Mike.
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ALIVE
An Atari ST user donated $300.00 to Team Chaos to port Total Chaos AGA to Total Chaos AVM (WinUAE)
Amiga software is ALIVE.
All hail Jay Miner!
Long live Amiga!
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@EyeAm : no, no! :-D
here are the main reasons of my change of opinion
1°) Newtec LightWave 3D Production: video (http://dl.free.fr/iWuvVNlDj) (Same Password for RAR & DL: amiga), an unique and extremely rare video that my DISTRIBUTOR AMIGA (Picasso and VLAB) had gracefully sent me in 1991/1992.
2°) invested money & time in AMIGA
3°) all my memories of the best instants of creations
4°) multitasking & multimedia (audio&video)...since 1987
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The Amiga is DEAD! Period!
Whoever says the opposite, he's just fooling himself.
Having said that, there's room for "enthusiasts" of the Commodore Amiga platform, in the same way that one enjoys the Atari ST or the (mighty) Commodore 64 !!
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ALIVE!!!
New Hardware
New Software
New Users
Amiga isn't dead, not as long as people still use them and strive to advance the platform, no matter how quiet or slowly that may be.
Who said you have to be commercially successful or mainstream to be considered alive? Amiga may not be in the strong position it once was, but it's far from dead.
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EyeAm wrote:
Well, I'm not a heavy user of Amiga.org (just a Beginner, as you can see--forty something posts--not a Cult Member like some--so, I don't have any Kool Aid :lol:), but...
I'm just hoping for what a lot hope for: Amiga OS on x86-64 motherboards (like those from ABIT, MSI, ASUS, and so on). You know, since they decided to be a 'software-only' corporation, that should render them 'hardware-agnostic', so long as their boxed OS sells, right? :-D
Just think of Windows XP, Windows Vista, or Windows 7, and where those reside, and replace those OSes with "Amiga OS" (not in name, mind you, but I mean put Amiga OS in those arenas, on the same hardware). THEN, Amiga will be back. Til then, it's DEAD. :-P
Wait, so your whole justification for your choice is based on x86 compatibility??? That's just retarded. The Amiga community wouldn't grow by that much if OS4 made it to x86, there would probably be more OS4 copies sold within our community, but not much more than that. It's the community that keeps the Amiga alive.
@bloodline
Your girlfriend's friends may not have heard of the Amiga, but that's not exactly conclusive. I'm 24, and I can think of younger people than me that I know who know about the Amiga. That's not conclusive either, but just thought I'd give another perspective on the issue of awareness.
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OS4 was never going to x86-64. OS5 was.
I don't care anything about OS4, because it is PPC-only. It doesn't even run on classic Amigas (not that I care about going backward).
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@EyeAm
OS4 does run on classics provided you have a PPC card for it.
OS5 is vapourware like Duke Nukem Forever. At least 3DRealms has finally folded now. You can wait for Amiga Inc. to fold but that still won't get you OS5 on x86. Or any "officially" branded AmigaOS on x86 anytime soon.
If you want an Amiga like OS on your x86 box you're only choice is AROS at the moment.
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IMNSHO, the Amiga is an enthusiast's machine. They are like classic old cars. They can't go as fast as modern machines, they aren't as economic to drive, they don't have ABS, traction control, air conditioning and they are difficult to find spares for and costly to maintain. However, just like classic cars, they appeal to us for the fun factor.
I think Hyperion stated naught but the truth when they pitched OS4 with the "remember when computing was fun?" line. The time when it was a relevant platform for serious work is all but past. Rival hardware caught up and left it behind a long time ago now.
Instead of worrying about how it will conquer any given market, why not simply enjoy it for what it is? A classic piece of engineering that showed us what the future of personal computing was going to be like. Keep your machines well serviced and maintained, keep using them and pimping them out if you wish, but accept the fact that outside of ourselves, nobody else is interested in the machines, therefore it has no tangible future outside the community.
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I'll never use AROS. Thanks, anyway. :-D
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Ah great; so now Amiga.org has its own Helgis.
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from Karlos:
I think Hyperion stated naught but the truth when they pitched OS4 with the "remember when computing was fun?" line. The time when it was a relevant platform for serious work is all but past. Rival hardware caught up and left it behind a long time ago now.
Then there really is no point, is there? :-)
I guess I'm out of here. Amiga is dead to me. I'm not posting again on an Amiga forum (I know, yay, right?). :lol:
I thought maybe things had changed, so I looked back in after Wayne's email about the site update. But...they haven't; they've gotten even worse. :-P
Enjoy your retro platform, in whatever form that is in.
*waves*
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With a bit more drama, it would have been a true Helgis exit!
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I strongly suspect he's just trolling for giggles. If so, he'll be back.
And you know what? I don't even care, it's a laugh. Reminds me of the old days when there really were proper zealots that couldn't accept the basic reality that the Amiga had been left behind.
I think I'll stick to using my Amigas for the sheer fun of it, I'm under no delusion about using them for serious work.
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@Karlos
Same here.
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Hell yeah, the Amiga is still ALIVE, as long as the community still exists and there are new products being produced it is still alive. Just because it is not in the public awareness like the iPhone for example doesn`t make it dead. As long as there is new developments be it software or hardware the Amiga is still ALIVE!
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ALIVE
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well my tower died last night :-(
BUT, due to having spare parts, it`s now ALIVE again :-D
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mingle wrote:
@bloodline,
You're spot on...
It's been and gone. It was certainly great while it lasted...
In the same was as my C64 will never be mainstream and is 'dead' as a viable system, so has passed the Amiga.
I still love playing the games and tinkering with DPaint, but that's as 'alive' as the Amiga will ever be for me...
The advantage we have over these youngsters, is that we were there to bask in the light of the heyday of the Amiga...
Cheers,
Mike.
[edited]
You guys are both confusing NICHE with DEAD. We have a trademark holder that is completely useless, yet progress on Amiga continues as the users (e.g. enthusiasts, fanatics, whatever, etc.) take matters into their own hands. Really, how can you call AMIGA dead when so much good new development is going on *despite* the best efforts of Amiga Inc. to completely destroy the once-glowing Amiga name?
Does it not seem strange that AmigaKit has 882 different Amiga product lines available if Amiga is indeed dead????
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@orb
No, the Amiga is a dead platform. There is no more development. It is technically static. Individual Computers make hardware that allws us to use the existing platform with modern technologies as the older ones disapear... This is just, for want of a better word, life-support... It is not driving the platform forward.
Protools NLE audio system is an example of niche, only a very small customer base and limited appeal... But the system is being developed, it is advancing... And in fact helping to drive the NLE Market forward... (note: I'm actually a Logic Pro 8 guy ;-))
The Amiga platform competes with nothing, is stuck with old technology and old concepts. In 10 years the Amiga will still be just the same... In 10 years Protools will be far in advance of what we have now!
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@ Karlos,
I agree, he is a Mega Troll out to naysay anyone who says dead.
Which in my words makes him a right W#nker
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I vote alive
Regards, Michael
aka rockape
Founder member of LAG
see http://lincsamiga.org.uk/
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@ EyeAm
"Even Hitler had|has fans. :)" --- Confirmation of trolling by using an anti social, and plainly stupid comparison.
---
"Risking the invariable mention of AROS-on-x86|64, there doesn't seem to be a porting project of Amiga OS to x86-64, which has always been the bigger pool or market. :)"
"They say that the stem cell research will lead to cures for this. Just kidding." --- anti social and offensive.
"In screenwriting, there is a difference between 'activity' and 'action'. I want to see some action in the Amiga world." --- and now by your trolling you are.
---
"Just as a sidenote here, I think Carl Sassenrath is under Non-Disclosure with Amiga Inc. I've asked him a couple of times now if he's working on OS 5 with them, and no response about it--not even a "Much as you'd like it to be true, no." And to think, he periodically talks with Bill McEwen."
"I think Carl Sassenrath is under Non-Disclosure with Amiga Inc"
"I think? " --- so no proof.
"I've asked him a couple of times now if he's working on OS 5 with them, and no response about it"
And this confirms what a right W#nker you are if indeed there is development under NDA. (substitute Troll for W#nker if you wish)
More proof.
@ EYAM
"www.amiga.org Posted on: 2009/5/9 6:22"
"Re: Awareness by classic Amiga users about modern Amiga's?
I can't say I'm surprised people don't know about those--I barely know of them, myself (like, where to get one, etc.). I understand enough that not one of those things mentioned is a full-fledged computer, but instead is either a motherboard or a card that goes into some slot; and that all are 'classic' (if that) in nature, and not a piece of it with a CPU that is AMD or Intel.
As far as steps to be taken, including advertising, etc., I won't offer any until I see on the Amiga Inc. website a press release that "Amiga will now be put on x86-64 CPUs" and run on CPUs by AMD and Intel. Til then, what's the point? (beyond this, I have extremely hostile words)"
"(beyond this, I have extremely hostile words)"
So you start a Poll which only allows a yes or no answer about the Amiga being a dead platform.
Which because of human nature you know people will give explanations as to yes or no, thus giving you the chance to attack and give you that rosy warm feeling as you reply.
Because of all the yes replies and your counter statements I bet your on your second box of tissues by now .
It will make you go blind you know.
Michael
aka rockape
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EyeAm wrote:
Poll Question:
Which word, in your opinion, best describes AMIGA today--DEAD or ALIVE?
ALIVE.
But my own power-Amiga is dead. I do believe in a life after death though.
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EyeAm wrote:
Poll Question:
Which word, in your opinion, best describes AMIGA today--DEAD or ALIVE?....
*note: the question has nothing to do with the future. It is about the 'state of Amiga' as you see it.
For me the answer is simple. Obviously we can't be talking about a going financial concern, market share or anything near leading technology. In the same way that Beethoven's 5th Symphony, or Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture are classics alive an well in the hearts and minds of anyone who has ever heard them, the Amiga is alive and well in the hearts and minds of anyone who has ever used one. A 386 or 486 PC, Windows 3.11 or Windows 95 has never have that.. Windows XP or Vista will never have it, they will simply be forgotten. Mac draws close but is sterile in comparison.
Amiga lives,, okay... And anyone who disagrees will get a good dose of Vogon poetry; "Just see if I don't"
ALIVE
:-D
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bloodline wrote:
No, the Amiga is a dead platform. There is no more development. It is technically static. Individual Computers make hardware that allws us to use the existing platform with modern technologies as the older ones disapear... This is just, for want of a better word, life-support... It is not driving the platform forward.
No more development? OS4, MOS2, AROS, Anubis, Natami, Minimig, OWB, Hollywood, Cinammon Writer, etc... Alright, some of this development could be classed as life-support, but others show progress, however slow, of modernising the Amiga experience. Just to be clear modernising != modern, just because a snail moves slowly doesn't mean it is out of the race! :-P
The C64 is an interesting example of a computer that for most people is thought of as useless for modern needs, yet it still has an active community of people working with it and doing some interesting stuff. Does it matter that others class it as a waste of time? No. I'll be happy when the Amiga community reaches the maturity that the C64 community shows externally at least.
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I agree and was about to write something similar. The AROS project that modernises Workbench is a great example of legacy software and hardware moving forward. So are the USB stacks & Deneb. And UAE? These are all current as the day is long. And lets not forget the dozens of new libs and other legacy enhancements (ie: the Amigakit .pdf viewer freebie) to be discovered over at Aminet. Every time I turn around, something new has been released, manufactured, remanufactured, being developed or at the very least, being talked about conceptually (which often seems to come to fruition) - all in the Amiga world.
Forgive my ignorance, but do older Mac and PeeCee platforms (OS & hardware) have such repositories as Aminet? Constant improvements, contributions and developments? I doubt it and for better or for worse, is a side effect to those platforms being mainstream. One could also argue they don't need them as with each and every new OS comes these things, but I'm trying to show just how 'alive' the Amiga still is. How much of a demand there still is. The pulse may not be as strong as a mainstream system, but to say it's completely dead is, well... .
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You guys crack me up, The Poll question was "Which Word, in your Opinion, Best describes Amiga today". Here you folks are fighting about if it is alive or dead. Everyone is intitled to their Opinion. I read the contract. I have another word 'In my opinion' about some of the users here.
Silly, :lol:
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UN-DEAD
Neither Alive, nor dead ;-)
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alexh wrote:
UN-DEAD
LOL! Good one :-D
...and @ amiga92570:
These kinds of threads are difficult sometimes, especially when they're in a system specific forum, such as this. I hear you about the literal definition of alive or dead and I think most/all of us realistically & globally accept the answer (contextually). Trouble is, when you proselytise outside of the community, we're usually met with the same blank stare as others have witnessed. Many of us come to sites like this to get away from that sort of despondency.
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the company's all but dead, imo.
but the Amiga community is more than alive! :)
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as DEAD as a Dodo
Tom UK
(except the one on my desk)
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Be careful Tom, some species have recently surfaced that were once considered as extinct as the Dodo lol :-D
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dead
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yet another "lets check the pulse" "i feel it! " "well I dont!" thread.
since there are people interested, people using amiga tech, people making money with amiga tech, and new hardware and software I definitely consider it alive.
for those of you who consider it dead, fine for you it is, don't piss on everyone elses parade. we aren't necissarily dilusional we simply have a different point of view.
alive and quite vigorously so.
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Hi,
Amiga = Alive
Amiga Inc. = Dead
Amiga Part Sellers = Alive and living quite well
Amiga Software Creators = Dead
Amiga Org = Dead
Amiga Users = The Living Dead
Windows VISTA = Still Alive after major Crash, VISTA claims
that nvidia was the fault of the crash by
having an obsolete driver.
Linux = Alive, but still no new games being made for it.
Linux claims that VISTA is hogging all the
gamming companies and holding them for
ransoms if they try to make Linux games.
Have a nice Amiga day
smerf :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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@ Karlos,
Hi,
Why not use them for serious work, I trust my old A4000 for keeping my data more than I trust VISTA, and Windows XP.
Right now it seems that the only other OS that has good properties for not crashing and losing data is Ubuntu Linux, but even it had one surprise crash, when Windows Virus protection software saw Linux as a Virus and wiped it out. So I am counting that as a crash, this happened once in the last three years that I have used it, but as of now, there has been no OS or computer that has taken care of my data like the Amiga, it has had my data on there since 1992. Continues to collect data, and has one of the fastest best backup programs ever made (diskmaster with LHARC).
Have a nice DEAD AMIGA DAY
smerf
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On LIFE SUPPORT
In a COMA
About to die forever gone.
****** AMIGA is in it's worst "Take-up" position it has EVER been since Commodore break.******
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(http://archive.perfectduluthday.com/beating-a-dead-horse.gif)
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smerf wrote:
@ Karlos,
Hi,
Why not use them for serious work
Lets see... Expensive, limited support for the kinds of things Karlos does during his day job. The constant threat of an application taking out the entire OS thanks to no memory protection... The fact that it would take several orders of magnitude longer to do the things he does (assuming it didn't develop hardware faults thanks to old age)... I could go on...
smerf wrote:
, I trust my old A4000 for keeping my data more than I trust VISTA, and Windows XP.
I'll take a computer that isn't knocking on the door of 15 years old. One with a warrenty, one that I can get spare parts for readily that are new. One that allows me to interact with the internet in a meaningful way, something the Amiga ceased to be able to do a decade ago.
As a front line system, for me at least, the Amiga ended its service after 12 years in 2003. It was and is a fine machine in its own right, but it was never built with the internet in mind and it shows. I love them still, but I fondly remember the things it was actually good at.
smerf wrote:
Ubuntu Linux, but even it had one surprise crash, when Windows Virus protection software saw Linux as a Virus and wiped it out. So I am counting that as a crash,
Windows wiping out a partition is not a crash by any known definition of the word. Ubuntu cannot be held responsible for the actions of another OS on the same disk.
You take massaging the figures to a whole new level.
So... DEAD. But not forgotten.
-
bloodline wrote:
I'm dating a 20 year old
Just got to say: UTTER UTTER UTTER UTTER BA+++NO CARRIER
;-)
Damn connection, now, where was I...
bloodline wrote:
even the most geeky of her friends (some of whom are as old as 24) have no knowledge of the Amiga. The Amiga has passed out of living memory of the computer generation. The Amiga is dead...
Ok, now I really do feel old. Cheers buddy :-D
My one consolation is that you probably felt older when you realised that. :lol:
bloodline wrote:
I showed some of these youngsters my A1200 running, I got blank faces... And the odd comment that it looks a bit like Window95 but "flatter"...
I wonder how some of the more frothy amongst the old hardline amiganuts would have responded to the comparason :lol:
bloodline wrote:
This is the reality of Amiga.
Innit.
-
HenryCase wrote:
bloodline wrote:
No, the Amiga is a dead platform. There is no more development. It is technically static. Individual Computers make hardware that allws us to use the existing platform with modern technologies as the older ones disapear... This is just, for want of a better word, life-support... It is not driving the platform forward.
No more development? OS4, MOS2, AROS, Anubis, Natami, Minimig, OWB, Hollywood, Cinammon Writer, etc...
I'm simply in disbelief that this point even needed to be made -- but apparently it did (thanks).
-
bloodline wrote:
No, the Amiga is a dead platform. There is no more development. It is technically static. Individual Computers make hardware that allws us to use the existing platform with modern technologies as the older ones disapear... This is just, for want of a better word, life-support... It is not driving the platform forward
Emphasis mine.
HenryCase wrote:
No more development? OS4, MOS2, AROS, Anubis, Natami, Minimig, OWB, Hollywood, Cinammon Writer, etc...
OS4 development continues? Since when? Last I heard AROS was all but dead due to infighting between those wanting a direct 3.1 compatable OS replacement and those wanting to modernise the OS. Minimig is a nice way of continuing to play old games on new hardware - which is what Bloodline was getting at when he described it as life support. NatAmi... Until it ships I will place it in the same drawer as the coldfire accelerator project, the Abox, BoXeR and all the other stuff.
bloodline wrote:
The Amiga platform competes with nothing, is stuck with old technology and old concepts. In 10 years the Amiga will still be just the same... In 10 years Protools will be far in advance of what we have now!
Aparently you missed this Orb.
orb85750 wrote:
I'm simply in disbelief that this point even needed to be made -- but apparently it did (thanks).
I'm simply in disbelief that you missed Bloodlines point -- but apparently you did.
-
It would be difficult to argue that OS4.0 or 4.1 (both of which have been released) is "life support," but I'm willing to listen to your otherworldly wisdom.
-
Alive.
It can be used professionally again.
-
smerf wrote:
Hi,
Amiga = Alive
Amiga Inc. = Dead
Well, Pentti Kouri = Dead so it seems that the main funding source for Amiga Inc. may be gone. But is anyone here privy to the Amiga Inc. financial situation? I've been looking for the big AMIGA.com auction on eBay.
-
orb85750 wrote:
It would be difficult to argue that OS4.0 or 4.1 (both of which have been released) is "life support," but I'm willing to listen to your otherworldly wisdom.
It's not really difficult to argue at all, 4.0 and 4.1 didn't bring anything new to the table, took longer to get out the door then the original OS did and were designed to run on a piece of hardware which (and I'm being VERY generous here) had a significantly poorer quality control then what it was supposedly replacing. Worse still, was only ever in production for... well about an hour, after which the manufacturer realised their mistake and promptly killed themselves.
In order for something to be said to move the Amiga forward, it would have to improve upon what was available, to build upon it. The OS itself was so late that by the time it came out most of the community had upped sticks and left for pastures new and those that remained either couldn't afford to get the new hardware to run it on or, even if they did were left with lame duck systems. Frighteningly few people got new gear, an order of magnitude more people left the community in the mean time.
Not to mention the PR disaster that came out when it became clear that the issues were well known, but actively suppressed. It was by any measure an unmitigated disaster!
-
KimmoK wrote:
Alive.
It can be used professionally again.
Care to cite a situation where an Amiga could do a job at least as well as even a £160(Comet) Aspire A1 netbook?
-
Sorry the_leander, but it's absurd to argue that OS4 or MOS is life support (and you still have not done so). Despite your impressive pessimism, there is much excitement and demand within the Amiga community. Have you not noticed?
-
RETRO
:-D
-
orb85750 wrote:
Sorry the_leander, but it's absurd to argue that OS4 or MOS is life support (and you still have not done so). Despite your impressive pessimism, there is much excitement and demand within the Amiga community. Have you not noticed?
Yep, all 15 of us... :)
-
orb85750 wrote:
Sorry the_leander, but it's absurd to argue that OS4 or MOS is life support (and you still have not done so).
I'm sorry, you specifically stated OS4 and 4.1, not MOS. I'll deal with MOS later.
Back in 98 we had the release of a huge amount of top quality software, imho some of the best Amiga software ever released came out, we had announcements of a roadmap, new OS releases and a reasonable timeframe for patches as and when they became necessary we had active and innovative hardware development (PPC and BlizzardVisionPPC). Then around 2000 we got told, that after all the crap we had endured, we were all finally going to get a bridge to the future - the AmigaOne. First designed as an addon board for an A1200 - it would litterally use the 1200 for ports and that's about it, it was sold on the basis that it would litterally be a means to transfer over a more mainstream design.
It was quietly dropped.
By mid 2001 the Aone that many of us grew to love reared its ugily head in the form of the SE (a piece of hardware so braindamaged that rumour has it that the engineer and his entire family committed suicide in shame over it). It was at the time underpowered and grossly overpriced, even comparing it against Apple hardware! But hey, it was still *something* and with the promise of OS4, most people held their tongues.
Then a glorious day, about a week before the release of the new OS... Alan from Eyetech had to announce that contrary to what Amiga.inc had been telling us regarding the development timescale, nothing had been touched for 6 months. At this time there were around 150-200,000 active amiga users. We were then sold the XE and the miniA1 to quench our thirst.
Then we had the T Shirt scam and the later admission that the AmigaOnes that were being sold were actually pretty much scrap and that the distributers and A Inc not only knew about it, but actively shut down discussion in one of the main Amiga forums regarding any or all issues with the broken hardware. Lets avoid the fact that the kit was sold illegally (no warranty).
All of this, as well as the subsiquent drama contributed to people leaving the community in droves. By the time OS4 actually shipped to the public, there were maybe 700 functional Amigaones left in existance and not a great many more Phase5/DCE PPC cards.
So, from 150-200,000 Amiga users to maybe 1500 AmigaOS4 users and possibly as many as 10,000 Amiga users total (I'm being generous here) today.
Explain to me, in what way has OS4 moved the community forward?
orb85750 wrote:
Despite your impressive realism
fix'd
orb85750 wrote:
there is much excitement and demand within the Amiga community. Have you not noticed?
Compared to 2000, when we were first given the promise (lie) of OS4 and AmigaOne, the volume is barely audible.
You're being offered significantly less, for substantially more then what was supposed to be on the table nearly a decade ago.
/KennyR
-
Karlos wrote:
orb85750 wrote:
Sorry the_leander, but it's absurd to argue that OS4 or MOS is life support (and you still have not done so). Despite your impressive pessimism, there is much excitement and demand within the Amiga community. Have you not noticed?
Yep, all 15 of us... :)
Hey, you have to be off by a factor of at *least* ...Ummm... 10 or 20. ;-)
-
Hobby - that is the word
-
It's all semantics.
Different definitions for what constitutes an "Alive", or "Dead" computer platform. Certainly no one thinks the Amiga is anywhere close to what it once was and I think The_Leander was being way too generous with his estimation of Amiga users today. I would be pleasantly surprised if there were half that many and suspect that the actual number is closer to 20% of his estimate, or about 2,000 people worldwide that actually still turn on and use an Amiga computer, another 450 to 500 that use MorphOS and I don't have an educated guess of how many people out there use AmigaOS4.x, but I also suspect that almost all of the AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS users are included in the number of Amiga users anyway.
So, even though I voted that the Amiga is "Alive", due to recent activity and just because there are ANY of us left using Amigas and writing programs for Amigas, I can see how my definition does not apply to the many people that have replied that the Amiga is "Dead". I don't agree, but I understand their definition and reasoning.
-
the_leander wrote:
HenryCase wrote:
No more development? OS4, MOS2, AROS, Anubis, Natami, Minimig, OWB, Hollywood, Cinammon Writer, etc...
OS4 development continues? Since when? Last I heard AROS was all but dead due to infighting between those wanting a direct 3.1 compatable OS replacement and those wanting to modernise the OS. Minimig is a nice way of continuing to play old games on new hardware - which is what Bloodline was getting at when he described it as life support. NatAmi... Until it ships I will place it in the same drawer as the coldfire accelerator project, the Abox, BoXeR and all the other stuff.
You seem a bit behind the times old bean, and have clearly missed out mentioning certain projects that are more than just life-support.
Work on AROS continues (never stopped in fact), same with OS4 (Evidence of this? The OS4.1 release, the Pegasos2 release, points made by Hyperion on AW.net). Also, in what way does OWB not modernise the Amiga experience (remember, modernising != modern)? Anubis is the most modernising development the Amiga community has seen in years. I could go on.
Like I said before, progress may be slow, but to say it has stopped is inaccurate.
-
The Amiga we all know and come to love died years ago. We have multiple offshoots growing in some fashion or form, they are what will keep the spirit of the Amiga live. But the Amiga computer is quiet DEAD.
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amigadave wrote:
It's all semantics.
Different definitions for what constitutes an "Alive", or "Dead" computer platform. Certainly no one thinks the Amiga is anywhere close to what it once was and I think The_Leander was being way too generous with his estimation of Amiga users today. I would be pleasantly surprised if there were half that many and suspect that the actual number is closer to 20% of his estimate, or about 2,000 people worldwide that actually still turn on and use an Amiga computer, another 450 to 500 that use MorphOS and I don't have an educated guess of how many people out there use AmigaOS4.x, but I also suspect that almost all of the AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS users are included in the number of Amiga users anyway.
So, even though I voted that the Amiga is "Alive", due to recent activity and just because there are ANY of us left using Amigas and writing programs for Amigas, I can see how my definition does not apply to the many people that have replied that the Amiga is "Dead". I don't agree, but I understand their definition and reasoning.
I am not saying you're wrong or right. But can you provide some information concerning how you arrived at these numbers? For starters, it would be nice to know how many unique visitors Amiga.org gets per month? Does a moderator have access to any such stats?
-
It would also be nice to know how many SAM boards, Pegasos, Efika systems, A1's, Indivisions, Denebs, etc. have sold since their inception. Tracking the sales data of OS 4.x & MorphOS shouldn't be difficult either.
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Karlos wrote:
orb85750 wrote:
Sorry the_leander, but it's absurd to argue that OS4 or MOS is life support (and you still have not done so). Despite your impressive pessimism, there is much excitement and demand within the Amiga community. Have you not noticed?
Yep, all 15 of us... :)
:roflmao:
14, Karlos.......EyeAm left and he "isn't coming back".
:roflmao:
Oh, just to throw my 2p in.....
The Amiga is in a state of necrosis, neither alive, nor dead. The *ORIGINAL* Amiga platform is dead, but there have been several resurrections in one form or another of it. Whether any of these become a viable solution for the mainstream market, remains to be seen.
Hate to say it, but it's long gone. Sad, really, but it's true.
-
@orb85750,
Well, my numbers, as clearly stated in my post are MY OWN estimates, and not hard figures, which I don't think anyone has verifiable information on an exact count of how many Amiga users are left out there.
AmigaWorld.net claimed to have about 3000 members a couple of years ago, which I doubt that they have gained in membership since then. More likely, their membership has declined, just like everything else in the Amiga community. Not all of their current members use their Amiga computers, as I can remember quite well the several years that I visited these, and other Amiga forums on a regular basis just to keep abreast of what was going on in the Amiga community, but had all of my Amigas packed away and never turned them on. I think it is safe to assume that most members of Amiga websites belong to more than one site. Even though this is the site where I visit and post messages most often, I must be a member of at least half a dozen other Amiga related websites.
Then I got bitten again by the Amiga Bug and started collecting a massive amount of Amiga hardware & software and using them again. Note that I didn't say there are only about 2,000 Amiga owners in the world, rather I wrote that there are probably only about 2,000 people that use their Amiga computers (on a regular basis).
If you look at the attendance records of any Amiga events over the last 5 years, the number of active people that post on this and other Amiga forums and participate on Amiga related irc channels, it seems fairly obvious that there are not 10,000, or more ACTIVE Amiga users out there anymore. It is a great shame what greed and power hungry egos have done to decimate our once great community of over 300,000 to 500,000 users & programmers that I am sure we probably still had at the time Commodore went under, and maybe close to 1,000,000 users & programmers we probably had at the height of the Amigas heyday.
-
Dead. Purely a hobby platform now... But if it makes people feel better... As far as "nostalgic/hobby" computers go, I think it has the biggest and most active user-base.
If you think otherwise, you might be on this website a wee-bit too much and may need to go outside.
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EyeAm wrote:
Just think of Windows XP, Windows Vista, or Windows 7, and where those reside, and replace those OSes with "Amiga OS" (not in name, mind you, but I mean put Amiga OS in those arenas, on the same hardware). THEN, Amiga will be back. Til then, it's DEAD. :-P
What are you, a malware writer with agenda ?
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HenryCase wrote:
the_leander wrote:
HenryCase wrote:
No more development? OS4, MOS2, AROS, Anubis, Natami, Minimig, OWB, Hollywood, Cinammon Writer, etc...
OS4 development continues? Since when? Last I heard AROS was all but dead due to infighting between those wanting a direct 3.1 compatable OS replacement and those wanting to modernise the OS. Minimig is a nice way of continuing to play old games on new hardware - which is what Bloodline was getting at when he described it as life support. NatAmi... Until it ships I will place it in the same drawer as the coldfire accelerator project, the Abox, BoXeR and all the other stuff.
You seem a bit behind the times old bean, and have clearly missed out mentioning certain projects that are more than just life-support.
Work on AROS continues (never stopped in fact), same with OS4 (Evidence of this? The OS4.1 release, the Pegasos2 release, points made by Hyperion on AW.net). Also, in what way does OWB not modernise the Amiga experience (remember, modernising != modern)? Anubis is the most modernising development the Amiga community has seen in years. I could go on.
Like I said before, progress may be slow, but to say it has stopped is inaccurate.
OS4, MOS and even my beloved AROS are nothing more than trying to give us what we already had 15 years ago... but on more modern hardware, so we can keep it with us.
This is not progress, this is life-support at best... nostalgia at worst.
The Amiga is a dead computing platform... if we want our community to survive then we need to focus on what is really important... without the delusion of grandeur that plagues the ranks.
For me, the prefect system would be a 68k AROS based AGA clone in an FPGA (Like a minimig but with AGA...)... that would be a nice system to have... Thus I await whatever Jens has planned with the CloneA project.
-
Hold a door open! The Aspire is terrible as a doorstop compared to an Amiga.
the_leander wrote:
KimmoK wrote:
Alive.
It can be used professionally again.
Care to cite a situation where an Amiga could do a job at least as well as even a £160(Comet) Aspire A1 netbook?
-
Anubis is not Amiga, it's a few ex-AROS folks trying to create their own GUI on top of a Linux kernel. Nothing Amiga there. Also so far all I've seen of it is a Jpeg running on various one board. A jpeg in the outside world is not considered an OS....
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persia wrote:
Hold a door open! The Aspire is terrible as a doorstop compared to an Amiga.
the_leander wrote:
KimmoK wrote:
Alive.
It can be used professionally again.
Care to cite a situation where an Amiga could do a job at least as well as even a £160(Comet) Aspire A1 netbook?
I disagree, a partially open netbook forms an excellent wedge shape -- perfect to slide under the door as a door stop.
Can you do heavy nonlinear video editing with a netbook?
And what if you have hands larger than those of a 10 year old girl? How's the build quality of your typical Chinese/Vietnamese not-living-wage-made netbook? Will it last far beyond its 1-year warranty? (or is it 90 days)
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bloodline wrote:
OS4, MOS and even my beloved AROS are nothing more than trying to give us what we already had 15 years ago... but on more modern hardware, so we can keep it with us.
So you think there are no new features, functions, or capabilities in AmigaOS4.x, or MorphOS, beyond what was available in AmigaOS3.1? I think the developers of those two OSes would disagree, as well as the 800 to 1,200 users (guesstimate). Do you own and use an AmigaOS4.x, or MorphOS computer?
This is not progress, this is life-support at best... nostalgia at worst.
The Amiga is a dead computing platform... if we want our community to survive then we need to focus on what is really important... without the delusion of grandeur that plagues the ranks.
The delusions of grandeur for the Amiga are limited to a few dozen at most, and not the majority of the remaining Amiga owners that still enjoy using their old or new Amiga computers and I don't even want to get into a discussion about "what is really important....." on a computer forum, but since you put it out there, why don't you try to explain (in your opinion) "what is really important........" to help our Amiga community survive?
For me, the prefect system would be a 68k AROS based AGA clone in an FPGA (Like a minimig but with AGA...)... that would be a nice system to have... Thus I await whatever Jens has planned with the CloneA project.
To each, their own. I am a bit more interested in seeing what can be accomplished by the NatAmi team than I am in a 68k AROS AGA clone. I think the NatAmi team has its sights set at a much higher goal as their target, and even if they do not reach all the way to their objectives, I think they will produce something better than a 68060 based Amiga with just the standard AGA capabilities.
-
amigadave wrote:
bloodline wrote:
OS4, MOS and even my beloved AROS are nothing more than trying to give us what we already had 15 years ago... but on more modern hardware, so we can keep it with us.
So you think there are no new features, functions, or capabilities in AmigaOS4.x, or MorphOS, beyond what was available in AmigaOS3.1? I think the developers of those two OSes would disagree, as well as the 800 to 1,200 users (guesstimate). Do you own and use an AmigaOS4.x, or MorphOS computer?
Do these features take those systems even close to a £199 PC from curries? No. This is not progress... It is life-support... progress would be taking the Amiga platform beyond what is standard in the rest of the market, that would be a compelling reason to develop for the platform and the platform would be alive.
This is not progress, this is life-support at best... nostalgia at worst.
The Amiga is a dead computing platform... if we want our community to survive then we need to focus on what is really important... without the delusion of grandeur that plagues the ranks.
The delusions of grandeur for the Amiga are limited to a few dozen at most, and not the majority of the remaining Amiga owners that still enjoy using their old or new Amiga computers and I don't even want to get into a discussion about "what is really important....." on a computer forum, but since you put it out there, why don't you try to explain (in your opinion) "what is really important........" to help our Amiga community survive?
Our community only has one generation left now, so lets just enjoy it :-) in 10 years the Amiga will be a footnote in history books.
For me, the prefect system would be a 68k AROS based AGA clone in an FPGA (Like a minimig but with AGA...)... that would be a nice system to have... Thus I await whatever Jens has planned with the CloneA project.
To each, their own. I am a bit more interested in seeing what can be accomplished by the NatAmi team than I am in a 68k AROS AGA clone. I think the NatAmi team has its sights set at a much higher goal as their target, and even if they do not reach all the way to their objectives, I think they will produce something better than a 68060 based Amiga with just the standard AGA capabilities.
Even the most whizz-bang Natami vaporware (i.e. the most amazing system they can dream up) will not be as good as that £199 PC I mentioned earlier...
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Even though I rarely make any posts, I consider the Amiga to be ALIVE because of the community.
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It's ALIVE. Since i use it daily, and i think i'm not the only one. I do have 2 PC's, laptop and desktop, but it doesn't mean that i have abandoned AMIGA.
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The DEAD....
Crazy parallels between music and computers.. if that's possible.
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Alive.
I've never been on this site without plenty of company. And it's obviously evolving: the OSs, the hardware... new things on AmiNet all the time. I'd call that alive. An "investor" might not agree.
(By comparison, and using the same standards, the ST does seem moribund. Even the TI-99 has more of a heartbeat.)
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Yep, the Aspire runs leopard like a champ and Final Cut Express runs fine on it. Can you do HD Video on an Amiga? Get the video from my industry standard AVCHD-format video recorder? Use a Firewire video source? import still images in PSD, BMP, JPEG, PICT, PNG, SGI, TARGA, and TIFF formats? Mix DV (NTSC and PAL) and HD formats in the same Timeline?
The Amiga Video Toaster is ancient technology with no relevance to the 21st century. Shoot some video on a video recorder, mix in text, still and DVD source, preview it real time and upload it to youtube, and do it without a Mac or PC....
(http://www.comedyfestival.com.au/participation/2009/images/mediacenter/125.1236321000.preview.jpg)
-
Dead
:(
but it is an interesting retro project to add things to the amiga such as usb etc.
Would love to see os ported to other platforms.
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Really, it all depends on the context.
The Amiga, as a hardware platform is dead insofar as there is no progression. True there are interesting expansions being made but as has been mentioned by others they serve only to expand the capability of existing systems. I concede that machines like Sam440 are "new" hardware, but is a long way behind commodity PC hardware and the gap is widening every day.
However, as an enthusiasts platform I'd say it enjoys quite a following. JIT emulation on current PC hardware, for example, has opened new doors for the classic OS. It brings with it a performance level that was totally unimaginable in the days when I got my first 040 board. I wouldn't be surprised if 68K apps on my Q9450 run faster than the equivalent PPC ones on any existing G3/G4 class machine.
So, even if no new amiga hardware of any description was developed from this day forth, it would still live on through UAE and even AROS.
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amiga? its neither dead nor alive. its a zombie!
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@the_leander
Hi,
I still use Pen Pal almost every day to add to my video data bases, my disk data bases, my household inventory data base and my cd/dvd game collection data base. I use the gvp iv24 to edit my tapes that I make with my movie camera (JVC mini) and I also use various Amiga graphics effects in my recording. I then transfer them to my PC where I can tune them up and record them to dvd or hard drive.
I never keep anything of value on my PC using Windows Vista or Windows, I have learned through time that the PC is not a very stable machine since its breaking out in 1981 where I set up 92 IBM machines for the Navy, they were junk then and have not improved since. So you can say what you want, PC's are crap and this comes from a person who has a quad 6600 with 4 gig of memory, 3 hard drives, using both Ubuntu (great system so far) and Microsoft windows XP, Vista (32), Vista (64) and the new Windows 7, which is probably the best of the Windows series. Now you can take your new Acer Aspire and Windows and see if you can match my Amiga for stability, as a matter of fact all you PC heads out there match this, since 1993 my Amiga has only had one crash which I induced myself in 1993, it was easily called back due to Diskmaster and LHARC where I had all my data saved on a backup zip drive. Restore time about 20 minutes. Since then the Amiga has had no failures with data, this year I installed a 2.2 gig hard drive which replaced my 1.2 gig hard drive, no the 1.2 gig hard drive was nowhere near filled, I just done it to use an old 2.2 gig hd that I had sitting on the shelf. Once again restore time on new hd was 20 minutes. Now for all you PC users out there with bragging rights, has your computer been going since 1993 without a crash, or without losing data. Rememeber on most computers the first thing they teach you is that the most important thing on your computer is not HARDWARE but your DATA, and I have lost none since 1993 on my Amiga. THANK YOU, How about your ACER ASPIRE?
smerf
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smerf wrote:
@the_leander
Hi,
I still use Pen Pal almost every day to add to my video data bases, my disk data bases, my household inventory data base and my cd/dvd game collection data base. I use the gvp iv24 to edit my tapes that I make with my movie camera (JVC mini) and I also use various Amiga graphics effects in my recording. I then transfer them to my PC where I can tune them up and record them to dvd or hard drive.
Fantastic, I'm glad you still use your system for this. But your personal use is hardly the same as industry now, is it?
smerf wrote:
I never keep anything of value on my PC using Windows Vista or Windows, I have learned through time that the PC is not a very stable machine since its breaking out in 1981 where I set up 92 IBM machines for the Navy, they were junk then and have not improved since.
:lol:
smerf wrote:
Now you can take your new Acer Aspire and Windows
No, I really can't - I own an EeePC 701 running Elive and Xandros. I pointed to the AA1 because it was cheep and available now.
smerf wrote:
and see if you can match my Amiga for stability, as a matter of fact all you PC heads out there match this, since 1993 my Amiga has only had one crash which I induced myself in 1993, it was easily called back due to Diskmaster and LHARC where I had all my data saved on a backup zip drive. Restore time about 20 minutes. Since then the Amiga has had no failures with data, this year I installed a 2.2 gig hard drive which replaced my 1.2 gig hard drive, no the 1.2 gig hard drive was nowhere near filled, I just done it to use an old 2.2 gig hd that I had sitting on the shelf. Once again restore time on new hd was 20 minutes.
I use multiple backup types, both local and offsite. Relying on a single source for backing up important data is retarded.
Also I want to know what definition of "crash" you are using. I take it to mean the system having to be rebooted due to non response to user command, or in the event of a catastrophe, the Guru/BSOD/coredump output.
smerf wrote:
Now for all you PC users out there with bragging rights, has your computer been going since 1993 without a crash, or without losing data.
Even on the Amiga crashes happened. I've lost data on both the amiga and on PC over the years, difference is, with a PC I can effect quick replacement of defective parts.
smerf wrote:
Rememeber on most computers the first thing they teach you is that the most important thing on your computer is not HARDWARE but your DATA, and I have lost none since 1993 on my Amiga. THANK YOU, How about your ACER ASPIRE?
smerf
I backup everything. AA1 only came out a year ago, also, as I stated I personally own an EeePC 701 and as yet, have not lost any data at all.
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@bloodline,
Nothing personal, but your responses are getting so predictable. If you don't have a good retort, you just try to deflect the question with a completely unrelated answer.
What does a crappy £199 PC from curries have to do with the questions I asked you? Nothing! You stated that "OS4, MOS and even my beloved AROS are nothing more than trying to give us what we already had 15 years ago...", which is not true. The developers have advanced beyond what was available on an Amiga 15 years ago and continue to add more modern features with each release, just like any other OS, but obviously at a slower pace due to resources. Just because those systems are not competing directly with Windows PCs, does not negate the progress that has been made, however slow or small. The progress is useful for those of us who do use AmigaOS4.1 and MorphOS2.2 systems, so again I will ask, do you own and use any of these NEW systems that you are so quick to criticize, or call DEAD.
In response to my assertion that only a small group of the Amiga community has delusions of grandeur and my request that you explain what you meant about what is "really important to our community", you wrote: "Our community only has one generation left now, so lets just enjoy it in 10 years the Amiga will be a footnote in history books".
I think people that make predictions like they know what will happen to the Amiga community (or anything else) in the future are having the delusions of grandeur, but I will do as you suggested and enjoy our community for the next ten years and as many more as I choose to participate in with this crazy group.
Then the funniest comment of all, in response to my preference of NatAmi over your less than vaporware 68k AROS AGA project that I have never heard anyone even mention before this, but is supposed to be somehow related to Jens' CloneA project, you again try to deflect the validity of my opinion and compare the NatAmi to your much loved £199 PC.
Just because you are caught up in the whizz-bang world of PCs that think they must have the shear number crunching CPU power to complete a zillion computations per second and to keep up with the competition the latest hardware must be used, because everything that came before it is now crap and therefore useless, does not mean that everyone would be better off following the rest of the lemmings off the cliff with their money every couple of years.
If there is some new application that I just have to buy because it is going to make my life so much better and it will only run on that £199 PC you are so hung up on, then maybe I will take a look at it, but I haven't seen or heard of it yet, and since it will probably only be written to run on Windows, as that is the dominant OS for your £199 PC, it will really have to be an application that I can't live without to get me to buy another PC of any kind, because I can not tolerate Windows problems any more and will not be spending any more money on any MS operating system or software. What I can't find for MorphOS, I will find for MacOSX, or Linux.
Again, nothing personal about this message, I just don't believe your previous arguments had any meaning to them.
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persia wrote:
Yep, the Aspire runs leopard like a champ and Final Cut Express runs fine on it.
You're running Final Cut on an Aspire *ONE*? (re: original question) What type of pro hacking was required to get Leopard up and running on it? Easy enough? Total cost of system with above software and any required hardware upgrades?
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orb85750 wrote:
persia wrote:
Yep, the Aspire runs leopard like a champ and Final Cut Express runs fine on it.
You're running Final Cut on an Aspire *ONE*? (re: original question) What type of pro hacking was required to get Leopard up and running on it? Easy enough? Total cost of system with above software and any required hardware upgrades?
Hardly pro hacking... Here's a guide to do so on a Dell Mini 9 (http://i.gizmodo.com/5156903/how-to-hackintosh-a-dell-mini-9-into-the-ultimate-os-x-netbook). Getting OSX for standard X86 PCs working is fairly well established now, with its own "hackintosh" community no less.
If you're genuinely interested with regard the AA1, note that I saw Tescos selling them on their website for around £130. So far as I know though you do need to replace the wireless on the AA1 for that to work under OSX, so the Mini 9 might be an easier option.
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amigadave wrote:
@bloodline,
Nothing personal,
You know, whenever I read this in a forum post, I can almost always expect for the rest of the post to be a snipe-fest...
I wasn't disapointed.
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the_leander wrote:
amigadave wrote:
@bloodline,
Nothing personal,
You know, whenever I read this in a forum post, I can almost always expect for the rest of the post to be a snipe-fest...
I wasn't disapointed.
It is possible to have a go at what someone says without being overly aggressive towards them. You have to ask yourself whether you would really be that offended if amigadave's comments were directed at you.
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@amigadave
I find it hard to take anything personal on something as impersonal as an Internet forum!
I sound repetitive because people don't seem to understand what I am saying!
Progress would be an Amiga platform that is twice as powerful as that £199 PC but at the same price or cheaper! At the moment we are playing catch up... And catch up that is one 8th the performance at three times the price!
We will only ever play catch up now... We can't compete with the mega-budgets... :-)
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@the_leander
"Care to cite a situation where an Amiga could do a job at least as well as even a £160(Comet) Aspire A1 netbook?"
Why would I?
I just said that Amiga can be used professionally again, meaning that we have new HW and SW to build our businesses.
Minimig might be a simpler and more power saving than Aspire for some embedded or kiosk use.
SAM440ep might be better for some other things (like to be used @ NokiaSiemensNetworks BTS R&D laboratories instead of 10x more pricey IBM board) or like to run a more performance hungry multimedia show.
Hollywood SW ....
etc...
and after one installs AROS natively to Aspire A1, I see it as "Amiga".
So. Amiga definitely LIVEs.
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I think its fun to read all the opinions of the users here. That and a cup of coffee really get me going in the morning. I am Passionate about the past, but I don't let that confuse me with reality. I love repairing old computer equipment, playing with old software, but when I have to get to work I have to use newer hardware. Well I have to get some work done now so,
Hey Taxi---Pad five please.
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To me Amiga is like a... Zombie :-) so neither.
However
Karlos wrote:
Really, it all depends on the context.
That's right. To be general because I'm just onboard since January. Let us take a look at the recent events I was witnessing:
-Sam440ep-flex shipping
-iMica available
-AmigaOS4 Pegasos2 release
-MorphOS for Minis shown being cooked
-FPGA Arcade news
-UAE4ALL for Nokia s60 preview
-AmiKit CD re-edition
-AmigaSYS Live portable
Some of those above might sound silly, some other were predictable. But hell, to be honest, Amiga as a franchise is alive, man! I mean you cannot program spaceships on it or create a 4d porn movies but hey, being alive doesn't have to imply being
-recognizable
-powerful
-productive
-of great performance
-competitive
-inexpensive
-etc.
Amiga Prevails! :-)
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Q: Which word, in your opinion, best describes AMIGA today?
A: Pancakes!
(anybody else remember that amiga.org meme?)
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orb85750 wrote:
persia wrote:
Yep, the Aspire runs leopard like a champ and Final Cut Express runs fine on it.
You're running Final Cut on an Aspire *ONE*? (re: original question) What type of pro hacking was required to get Leopard up and running on it? Easy enough? Total cost of system with above software and any required hardware upgrades?
Persia, can you show us Final Cut on the entry-level Aspire, or are you guessing that it works properly?
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bloodline wrote:
@amigadave
I find it hard to take anything personal on something as impersonal as an Internet forum!
I sound repetitive because people don't seem to understand what I am saying!
Progress would be an Amiga platform that is twice as powerful as that £199 PC but at the same price or cheaper! At the moment we are playing catch up... And catch up that is one 8th the performance at three times the price!
We will only ever play catch up now... We can't compete with the mega-budgets... :-)
This thread is full of semantics problems. I think bloodline is speaking of "Progress" (with a capital P), while many of us were referring to the progress on the Amiga platform specifically, which for obvious reasons has been much slower over the past 15 years than PC or mac progress.
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This thread is full of semantics problems. I think bloodline is speaking of "Progress" (with a capital P), while many of us were referring to the progress on the Amiga platform specifically, which for obvious reasons has been much slower over the past 15 years than PC or mac progress.
...and with that I say I'm sorely disappointed in the WinDoze platform. Seems to me more has been done in 15 years with AmigaOS than has WinBlows. How many times are they going to re-invent the wheel before they finally have something worth a $hit? It was an ugly and bloated OS since day one and it's an ugly, inefficient OS now. Despite the "advances" processor manufacturers have made. Exponentially, nothing has changed except it's now trying to mock the look and feel of MacOS.
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save2600 wrote:
NOTHING is dead or "obsolete" if you still use and enjoy it.
Doesn't matter if it's a computer, an auto, feelings for either, MUSIC (especially), yada, yada, yada.
Long live necrophilia! :-o
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EvilGuy - that *WAS* evil! lol
Seriously... what is it with people thinking old material things are somehow "useless" or "undesirable"? You ever wonder how civilisations could disappear without a trace? Our human ancestry is replete with dozens of examples. They must have shared the same attitude as our short-sighted (and "current") breatheran :lol:
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save2600 wrote:
...and with that I say I'm sorely disappointed in the WinDoze platform. Seems to me more has been done in 15 years with AmigaOS than has WinBlows. How many times are they going to re-invent the wheel before they finally have something worth a $hit? It was an ugly and bloated OS since day one and it's an ugly, inefficient OS now. Despite the "advances" processor manufacturers have made. Exponentially, nothing has changed except it's now trying to mock the look and feel of MacOS.
It does provide DirectX, which allows me to play Fallout 3, Crysis et. al.
I only have Vista installed on this dual boot machine for that purpose :-)
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Karlos wrote:
Q: Which word, in your opinion, best describes AMIGA today?
A: Pancakes!
So, nobody remembers that? There was a time when every poll had a pancakes option.
I feel old now :-(
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Karlos wrote:
Karlos wrote:
Q: Which word, in your opinion, best describes AMIGA today?
A: Pancakes!
So, nobody remembers that? There was a time when every poll had a pancakes option.
I feel old now :-(
Are you sure? I don't remember that? Hmmm....
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It does work, I can't say it's exactly snappy and it won't replace my dual Quad core Mac Pro, but it does work. A 2nd GB would probably help a lot, it depends what you are expecting, the Aspire is never going to be a video powerhouse but it's great to have if you're not at home and need to do an edit or two.
OS X makes far better use of Intel processors than Microsoft does, and scales far better, funny to say since Apple's been on Intel for three years and Microsoft has been there for almost ten times longer, but it's true.
orb85750 wrote:
orb85750 wrote:
persia wrote:
Yep, the Aspire runs leopard like a champ and Final Cut Express runs fine on it.
You're running Final Cut on an Aspire *ONE*? (re: original question) What type of pro hacking was required to get Leopard up and running on it? Easy enough? Total cost of system with above software and any required hardware upgrades?
Persia, can you show us Final Cut on the entry-level Aspire, or are you guessing that it works properly?
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It isn't Apple that scales well onto Intel, it's BSD...
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Alive & Well
No thanks to C= or A.Inc.
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save2600 wrote:
...and with that I say I'm sorely disappointed in the WinDoze platform. Seems to me more has been done in 15 years with AmigaOS than has WinBlows. How many times are they going to re-invent the wheel before they finally have something worth a $hit? It was an ugly and bloated OS since day one and it's an ugly, inefficient OS now. Despite the "advances" processor manufacturers have made. Exponentially, nothing has changed except it's now trying to mock the look and feel of MacOS.
True about the GUI, pariculary the icons, the way they are stored...
Now, where are these magical AmigaOS improvements that have escaped all my senses ? :shrug:
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Now, where are these magical AmigaOS improvements that have escaped all my senses ? :shrug:
For starters, have you read the complete ars technica review of OS4?
http://arstechnica.com/software/news/2007/01/amigaos4.ars
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orb85750 wrote:
Now, where are these magical AmigaOS improvements that have escaped all my senses ? :shrug:
For starters, have you read the complete ars technica review of OS4?
http://arstechnica.com/software/news/2007/01/amigaos4.ars
Kidder you 8-)
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@Einstein,
You can lead a horse to water, but....
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...if your horse drowns you'll have to walk. :-D
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bloodline wrote:
@amigadave
I find it hard to take anything personal on something as impersonal as an Internet forum!
I sound repetitive because people don't seem to understand what I am saying!
Progress would be an Amiga platform that is twice as powerful as that £199 PC but at the same price or cheaper! At the moment we are playing catch up... And catch up that is one 8th the performance at three times the price!
We will only ever play catch up now... We can't compete with the mega-budgets... :-)
I totally agree, but who here is trying to play catch up and what does that have to do with describing the Amiga as alive or dead? CPU computing cycles per (put your monetary unit here) does not determine if a computer community is alive or dead. If that were true, Apple would have been out of the computer hardware and software business long ago.
Probably the biggest problem with this entire thread is how it was worded. The word "Amiga" is many different things to many different people. It could mean what is left of the Amiga user & developer community, computer hardware that will run Amiga programs, one of the two different "Next Generation" Amiga-Like OSes and programs that run natively on them, or all of the above. Then the thread degraded into the "Dead" vs "Alive" argument and the various reasons to support each side (which I stupidly get sucked into just about every time it comes up, and it seems like I am not the only one that gets riled up about the "Dead" vs "Alive" question, considering the number of unique posters in this thread).
Oh, the part about nobody understanding what you are trying to say............, nope, we just don't agree with what you are trying to say. :-D
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@amigadave
I'm not arguing that the Amiga Comunity is dead... It isn't, it is weird, fractured and quite possibly insane.. But not dead.
The Amiga Platform is dead.
I agree with the poster who said Eyeam only returned to Troll... Vague bit provocative statements are the giveaway. It has been so long since anyone bothered I guess I must have forgotten the signs :-)
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bloodline wrote:
I'm not arguing that the Amiga Comunity is dead... It isn't, it is weird, fractured and quite possibly insane.. But not dead.
:lol: Best post so far. I agree on that one.
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orb85750 wrote:
@Einstein,
You can lead a horse to water, but....
In some peoples imaginary worlds I just might need to :roll: