Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: freqmax on April 19, 2009, 03:15:46 AM
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When does the Amiga Inc AGA patents expire ..?
Also.. anyone compiled a list of the relevant Amiga patents from those online-patent-sites?
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I believe patents last for 20 years.
I have heard them called utility patents.
best of luck
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Patents used to be 17 years, now they're 20 years, I think. I don't know how/when that transition was made.
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Amiga Inc never held any Amigs patents, Gateway (now acer) did, I don't think there was sufficient change to the original chipset to warrent anything patentable in the AGA chipset (AGA is just a slight improvement to the Amiga design), and the last Amiga patent to expire was one relating to the right mouse button... And that went a few years ago.
Amiga technology is just a pretty exhibit in the history of computing.
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Amiga Inc never held any Amigs patents, Gateway (now acer) did, I don't think there was sufficient change to the original chipset to warrent anything patentable in the AGA chipset (AGA is just a slight improvement to the Amiga design), and the last Amiga patent to expire was one relating to the right mouse button... And that went a few years ago.
There were a few more old C= patents beyond the right mouse button patent. Since C= went in 1994, I would expect 2014 to be the last possible year of old C= patents to be active.
Dammy
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2014 sounds plausible.
ECS were introduced in 1990, so no later than 2010 there.
AGA introduced in 1992, so no later than 2012.
To the first two posters, the length of patent is known (20y). The question is when the patent is filed.
Did a check now, patft.uspto.gov on Commodore-Amiga (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=0&p=1&f=S&l=50&Query=an%2F%22Commodore-Amiga%2C+Inc%22%0D%0A&d=PTXT) but it only shows a few patents:
Patent Title
1 5,103,499 Beam synchronized coprocessor
2 4,954,949 Universal connector device for bus networks in host computer/co-processor computer system
3 4,874,164 Personal computer apparatus for block transfer of bit-mapped image data
4 4,829,473 Peripheral control circuitry for personal computer
5 4,780,844 Data input circuit with digital phase locked loop
6 4,777,621 Video game and personal computer
7 4,772,882 Cursor controller user interface system
Filing dates between 1986-07-18 to 1989-10-16. The last one should expire this years autumn.
But did Commodore-Amiga only file 7 patents??
A search for "Commodore Business Machines" gives (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=0&f=S&l=50&d=PTXT&RS=AN%2F%22Commodore%22&Refine=Refine+Search&Refine=Refine+Search&Query=an%2F%22Commodore+Business+Machines%22):
Patent Title
1 5,088,035 System for accelerating execution of program instructions by a microprocessor
2 4,989,174 Fast gate and adder for microprocessor ALU
3 4,886,941 Circuit for interfacing mouse input device to computer system
4 4,851,826 Computer video demultiplexer
5 4,813,671 Raster monitor for video game displays
6 4,761,736 Memory management unit for addressing an expanded memory in groups of non-contiguous blocks
7 4,686,487 Current mirror amplifier
8 4,677,890 Sound interface circuit
9 4,599,528 Self booting logical or circuit
10 4,572,506 Raster line comparator circuit for video game
11 4,570,085 Self booting logical AND circuit
12 4,569,019 Video sound and system control circuit
13 4,562,365 Clocked self booting logical "EXCLUSIVE OR" circuit
14 4,561,659 Display logic circuit for multiple object priority
15 D281,503 Printer
16 4,551,682 Digital sine-cosine generator
17 D280,322 Videogame cartridge case
Filing dates between 1983-04-04 to 1988-12-09.
Parameters to use for searching (http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/search-adv.htm)
Could "Commodore" hide under any other name?, or possible individual inventor?
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"Miner Jay" gives:
1 5,594,473 Personal computer apparatus for holding and modifying video output signals
2 5,103,499 Beam synchronized coprocessor
3 4,874,164 Personal computer apparatus for block transfer of bit-mapped image data
4 4,829,473 Peripheral control circuitry for personal computer
5 4,777,621 Video game and personal computer
6 4,471,465 Video display system with multicolor graphics selection
7 4,471,464 Data processing system with programmable graphics generator
8 4,471,463 Data processing system with programmable graphics generator
9 4,435,779 Data processing system with programmable graphics generator
10 4,404,972 Implantable device with microprocessor control
11 4,390,022 Implantable device with microprocessor control
12 4,296,476 Data processing system with programmable graphics generator
Filing dates 1979-01-08 to 1993-03-08.
"Haynie Dave" turned up nothing.
"MOS Technology" turned up:
2 4,212,100 Stable N-channel MOS structure
3 4,099,232 Interval timer arrangement in a microprocessor system
4 4,081,699 Depletion mode coupling device for a memory line driving circuit
5 4,074,301 Field inversion control for N-channel device integrated circuits
6 4,011,105 Field inversion control for N-channel device integrated circuits
7 3,991,307 Integrated circuit microprocessor with parallel binary adder having on-the-fly correction to provide decimal results
8 3,941,989 Reducing power consumption in calculators
Filing dates 1974-12-13 to 1977-09-23.
"Yannes Robert" turns up patent 4,677,890 filed in 1983-02-27.
A quick check btw, states (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_of_patent_in_the_United_States):
"For (patent) applications that were pending on and for patents that were still in force on June 8, 1995, the patent term is either 17 years from the issue date or 20 years from the filing date of the earliest U.S. application to which priority is claimed (excluding provisional applications), the longer term applying"
Still nothing explicit "Advanced Graphics Architecture" (AGA).. any ideas on expiry?
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@freqmax
At the time Amino bought the Amiga name it was widely reported that Dell retained the 47 Aminga patents that they paid $13m for.
So there should be more than that. How to find them is anyone's guess.
You could try "Commodore Electronics Ltd" as that was the holding company.
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"Commodore Electronics Ltd" (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=%22Commodore+Electronics+Ltd%22&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=&d=PTXT):
1 6,484,189 Methods and apparatus for a multimedia authoring and presentation system
2 5,574,843 Methods and apparatus providing for a presentation system for multimedia applications
3 5,317,732 System for relocating a multimedia presentation on a different platform by extracting a resource map in order to remap and relocate resources
4 4,759,716 Rotating color mapped radar sweep simulator
5 4,388,563 Solid-state fluorescent lamp ballast
Filing dates 1981-05-26 - 1996-09-30.
GOSH.. finding thos pasky AGA related patents seems a pain-in-the-ass.
On a sidenote.. 68020 were released in 1984, and 68030 in 1987 so the CPU stuff should be in the clear.
The reason for interest is to know if the path to FPGA-AGA is blocked by a potential patent-troll attack from Gateway/Escom/Ewans etc..
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freqmax wrote:
On a sidenote.. 68020 were released in 1984, and 68030 in 1987 so the CPU stuff should be in the clear.
Yes but those aren't C=, those are Freescale/mot.
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I can't see how anything in the AGA chipset is patentable, it is built using the 1983 patents of the OCS... There was no new technology in there.
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Once we're sure the patents have expired would it be ok to clone the chips? All the parts are getting old and we will be needing replacements.
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Maybe the akiko chip is where all the patents were? Has anyone looked for akiko in the patent database?
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little wrote:
Maybe the akiko chip is where all the patents were? Has anyone looked for akiko in the patent database?
AKIKO is nothing special, and little more than a last ditch attempt by the engineers to cover for the fact Commodore wouldn't put a decent CPU + Fastmem in the A1200...
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@persia
Once we're sure the patents have expired would it be ok to clone the chips?
No.
Reimplementing the same functionality (say in FPGA) is naturally allowed.
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In these days with patent trolls and abused copyright laws. I wouldn't take that for granted.
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"Haynie Dave" turned up nothing.
http://www.thule.no/haynie/zorroiii/docs/zorro.pdf
Patent # 5,276,887
Date of Patent, Jan. 4, 1994.
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Not easy to catch them all when the paper record states "David B. Haynie" and the online record states "Haynie; David B." .. ;)
Found with "Commodore Electronics Limited":
1 5,432,801 Method and apparatus for performing multiple simultaneous error detection on data having unknown format
2 5,421,590 Multiple linked game controllers
3 5,418,321 Audio channel system for providing an analog signal corresponding to a sound waveform in a computer system
4 5,412,667 Decoder for cross interleaved error correcting encoded data
5 D356,835 CD-ROM video game machine
6 5,317,732 System for relocating a multimedia presentation on a different platform by extracting a resource map in order to remap and relocate resources
7 5,313,300 Binary to unary decoder for a video digital to analog converter
8 5,293,606 Apparatus and method for transferring interleaved data objects in mass storage devices into separate destinations in memory
9 5,276,887 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=24&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=5,276,887&OS=5,276,887&RS=5,276,887) Bus arbitration system for granting bus access to devices following two-wire bus arbitration protocol and devices following three-wire bus arbitration protocol
10 D277,857 Computer
11 D277,855 Computer
12 D277,755 Computer
13 4,277,784 Switch scanning means for use with integrated circuits
Filing dates 1979-07-13 to 1993-07-23
Is it the "Filed" or "Date of patent" that is the starting date for the patent + 20 years or something else?, the infamous GIF/LZW (http://www.kyzer.me.uk/essays/giflzw/) patent (http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US4558302) was filed in 1983 and is said to have expired in 2003. So I assume the filing date is what counts?
Checking the US 5,276,887 (http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US5276887) patent at the European patent office. Reveals a related patent in Europe. But EP0518037 (A2, A3?) have a legal record effective in 1996-06-05 labeled "DEEMED TO BE WITHDRAWN". What to make out of this?
Anyway to find out who sits on "Commodore electronics Ltd" patent assets?
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There is a lawyer listed in the patents and names of people who prepared and overviewed the patents. I suppose they would have last contact.
I'm sure that these patents could be licensed for pennies because the patent owners aren't making any money off of them.
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According to wikipedia "Commodore International Corporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_International_Corporation)" .. "bought all the global rights, patents and assets to the Commodore brand in 2005". Assumably thats where the ball is now.
Otoh, the last ones expire in 2012 or so. And any FPGA board as such isn't likely to be claimed as infringing. As it in essence just contain the reconfigurable chip with some Audio/Video connections in essence.
The HDL code is another story. But then I guess it's of marginaly interest. And huge potential for backfiring if any Unisys stunt is attempted.
Summary of all patents found so far, with the still valid ones in bold:
Filed-date, Patent-no, Description
1996-09-30 6,484,189 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=6,484,189.PN.) Methods and apparatus for a multimedia authoring and presentation system
1995-01-17 5,574,843 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=5,574,843.PN.) Methods and apparatus providing for a presentation system for multimedia applications
1993-07-23 D356,835 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=D356,835.PN.) CD-ROM video game machine
1993-07-23 5,432,801 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=5,432,801.PN.) Method and apparatus for performing multiple simultaneous error detection on data having unknown format
1993-07-23 5,421,590 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=5,421,590.PN.) Multiple linked game controllers
1993-07-08 5,412,667 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=5,412,667.PN.) Decoder for cross interleaved error correcting encoded data
1993-03-08 5,594,473 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=5,594,473.PN.) Personal computer apparatus for holding and modifying video output signals
1992-08-10 5,313,300 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=5,313,300.PN.) Binary to unary decoder for a video digital to analog converter
1992-00-15 5,418,321 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=5,418,321.PN.) Audio channel system for providing an analog signal corresponding to a sound waveform in a computer system
1991-06-06 5,276,887 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=5,276,887.PN.) Bus arbitration system for granting bus access to devices following two-wire bus arbitration protocol and devices following three-wire bus arbitration protocol
1991-04-26 5,317,732 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=5,317,732.PN.) System for relocating a multimedia presentation on a different platform by extracting a resource map in order to remap and relocate resources
1991-04-02 5,293,606 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=5,293,606.PN.) Apparatus and method for transferring interleaved data objects in mass storage devices into separate destinations in memory
1989-10-16 5,103,499 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=5,103,499.PN.) Beam synchronized coprocessor
1989-10-02 4,954,949 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,954,949.PN.) Universal connector device for bus networks in host computer
1988-10-27 4,989,174 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,989,174.PN.) Fast gate and adder for microprocessor ALU
1988-00-09 5,088,035 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=5,088,035.PN.) System for accelerating execution of program instructions by a microprocessor
1987-05-29 4,851,826 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,851,826.PN.) Computer video demultiplexer
1987-05-19 4,886,941 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,886,941.PN.) Circuit for interfacing mouse input device to computer system
1986-09-22 4,813,671 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,813,671.PN.) Raster monitor for video game displays
1986-07-28 4,686,487 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,686,487.PN.) Current mirror amplifier
1986-07-18 4,874,164 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,874,164.PN.) Personal computer apparatus for block transfer of bit-mapped image data
1986-07-18 4,829,473 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,829,473.PN.) Peripheral control circuitry for personal computer
1986-07-18 4,780,844 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,780,844.PN.) Data input circuit with digital phase locked loop
1986-07-18 4,772,882 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,772,882.PN.) Cursor controller user interface system
1986-03-21 4,759,716 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,759,716.PN.) Rotating color mapped radar sweep simulator
1986-01-02 4,761,736 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,761,736.PN.) Memory management unit for addressing an expanded memory in groups of non-contiguous blocks
1985-07-19 4,777,621 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,777,621.PN.) Video game and personal computer
1983-06-03 4,572,506 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,572,506.PN.) Raster line comparator circuit for video game
1983-06-03 4,569,019 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,569,019.PN.) Video sound and system control circuit
1983-05-16 4,471,465 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,471,465.PN.) Video display system with multicolor graphics selection
1983-04-29 4,471,464 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,471,464.PN.) Data processing system with programmable graphics generator
1983-04-22 4,471,463 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,471,463.PN.) Data processing system with programmable graphics generator
1983-04-04 D281,503 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=D281,503.PN.) Printer
1983-04-04 D280,322 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=D280,322.PN.) Videogame cartridge case
1983-02-27 4,677,890 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,677,890.PN.) Sound interface circuit
1983-01-17 4,599,528 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,599,528.PN.) Self booting logical or circuit
1983-01-17 4,570,085 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,570,085.PN.) Self booting logical AND circuit
1983-01-06 4,562,365 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,562,365.PN.) Clocked self booting logical
1983-01-06 4,561,659 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,561,659.PN.) Display logic circuit for multiple object priority
1983-01-03 4,551,682 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,551,682.PN.) Digital sine-cosine generator
1982-08-27 D277,857 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=D277,857.PN.) Computer
1982-08-27 D277,855 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=D277,855.PN.) Computer
1982-08-27 D277,755 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=D277,755.PN.) Computer
1981-06-08 4,435,779 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,435,779.PN.) Data processing system with programmable graphics generator
1981-05-26 4,388,563 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,388,563.PN.) Solid-state fluorescent lamp ballast
1981-05-18 4,404,972 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,404,972.PN.) Implantable device with microprocessor control
1981-05-18 4,390,022 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,390,022.PN.) Implantable device with microprocessor control
1979-07-13 4,277,784 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,277,784.PN.) Switch scanning means for use with integrated circuits
1979-01-08 4,296,476 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,296,476.PN.) Data processing system with programmable graphics generator
1977-09-23 4,212,100 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,212,100.PN.) Stable N-channel MOS structure
1976-09-14 4,099,232 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,099,232.PN.) Interval timer arrangement in a microprocessor system
1976-09-14 4,081,699 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,081,699.PN.) Depletion mode coupling device for a memory line driving circuit
1976-00-01 4,074,301 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,074,301.PN.) Field inversion control for N-channel device integrated circuits
1975-09-16 3,991,307 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=3,991,307.PN.) Integrated circuit microprocessor with parallel binary adder having on-the-fly correction to provide decimal results
1975-09-15 4,011,105 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=4,011,105.PN.) Field inversion control for N-channel device integrated circuits
1974-00-13 3,941,989 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=3,941,989.PN.) Reducing power consumption in calculators
Do the still valid patents pose any legal risks to the current Amiga projects?
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Seems only two patents remains now.. ;)
Filed-date, Patent-no, Description
1996-09-30 6,484,189 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=6,484,189.PN.) Methods and apparatus for a multimedia authoring and presentation system
1995-01-17 5,574,843 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=5,574,843.PN.) Methods and apparatus providing for a presentation system for multimedia applications
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Once we're sure the patents have expired would it be ok to clone the chips? All the parts are getting old and we will be needing replacements.
What do you mean by "cloned".
There is nothing inherent in the patent system that prevents you cloning a chip as a patent only covers how the design works. Patenting a chip doesn't stop someone from producing something that is pin compatible, it just has to work in a different way (depending on what is patented the chip could have seemingly identical characteristics).
If you actually want to make a copy of the chip by photographing the original mask, then that isn't a patent issue but a mask rights issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit_layout_design_protection
copyright doesn't cover masks because there is no artistic merit to them, but since 1989 you do get rights for up to 15 years to prevent people making copies.
The CPU in the NES was produced prior to this coming in and the chip was cloned by NEC(?) de-capping the 6502 and photographing it and then cutting out the bits that were patented (like decimal mode).
It seems strange that this type of practice went on. A lot of chips were produced by multiple companies as second sources, because some manufacturers wouldn't buy a chip that was only produced by one company, as they could end up with supply problems. I don't know whether they just had to pay to license the patents.
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If you actually want to make a copy of the chip by photographing the original mask, then that isn't a patent issue but a mask rights issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit_layout_design_protection
No, it's both a patent problem and a mask right problem. Because by exactly copying the chip you are also using the patented idea.
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Hello,
a yearly fee must be paided to keep a patent (with a maximum of 20 years).
As years pass, the fee becomes more and more expensive.
So, there is a big chance that all CBM patents are expired, even the most recent ones.
Regards,
Frederic
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Bill McEwan said a long time ago Amiga Inc. was a software company. That's probably because they acquired the rights to Amiga OS and nothing more from Gateway... and it's seems very unlikely that Gateway ever acquired anything more than that from the ESCOM bankruptcy.
P.S. According to Franko nobody legally acquired the rights to anything! :lol:
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a yearly fee must be paided to keep a patent (with a maximum of 20 years).
That isn't necessarily true. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maintenance_fee_(patent)
"Maintenance fees on utility patents in the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) are due 3½, 7½ and 11½ years after grant of the patent.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maintenance_fee_(patent)#cite_note-19) No maintenance fees are due while an application is pending.[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maintenance_fee_(patent)#cite_note-20) Design patents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent) and plant patents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_breeders%27_rights) are not subject to maintenance fees at all."
You can also game the system to get more than 20 years, I believe some of the mp3 patents haven't expired yet because of this.
I doubt old commodore patents are what you need to watch out for with an FPGA Amiga, there are plenty of other patents filed that you could easily violate though (and you don't have to know that they exist to violate them).
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P.S. According to Franko nobody legally acquired the rights to anything! :lol:
So the Amiga ROMs are also "free" now?
(I wonder where the rights to them went)
You can also game the system to get more than 20 years, I believe some of the mp3 patents haven't expired yet because of this.
Do you mean submarine patents?
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So the Amiga ROMs are also "free" now?
(I wonder where the rights to them went)
Do you mean submarine patents?
Amiga roms are still covered by copyright, someone will own them even if the copyright owners go through liquidation as they are an asset that would get sold.
submarine patents wasn't the specific method I was referring to, because I believe they tightened that up. But there are other ways that have the same effect. I'm not a patent laywer though.
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ROMs are covered by copyright. But if noone can claim ownership, then no one can sue?
Seems like the chain is Commodore -> Escom -> Gateway -> Amino Development.
The latter then renamed themself to Amiga Inc. And that seems to be where the copyright lies. However it also seems Haage & Partner are the ones that has the actual source code..
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Seems only two patents remains now.. ;)
Have you read the linked patent claims?
these blockheads claim patents for MOUSE-CLICKING
if these patents get reviewed by the pto they will be deleted immediatly, i'm sure
description in short: " A system that displays something and waits for user interaction (clicking an icon) to display the results." Calling it multimedia doesn't camouflage that this is what Xerox has created the gui for.
Ridiculous by all means.
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Don't assume sanity at USPTO or from lawyers .. ;)
The big corporate ecosystem is grab - profit - and spit out. Impacts be damned.
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Seems like the chain is Commodore -> Escom -> Gateway -> Amino Development.
The latter then renamed themself to Amiga Inc. And that seems to be where the copyright lies.
You'd have to go through the contracts, for example Amino may only have licensed the software and not transferred ownership of the copyright from Gateway.
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You may be right. The problem is the lack of information on this issue. There's not even an official duty to register like there is for patents.
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You may be right. The problem is the lack of information on this issue. There's not even an official duty to register like there is for patents.
With patent you need to check your idea hasn't been patented before, so you need a central repository.
With copyright you are supposed to assume you're not allowed to copy something unless you have the right to do so. If you want to license something but can't find the original owner, then it's likely they don't want to license it to you.
You could probably instruct a lawyer to contact the relevant parties though.
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@thread
Some of this has been posted before, but since I see discussion here about everything from trademark to patent to "reality":
You can read fairly up to date info on trademark here:
http://aminet.net/search?query=trademark
As cgutjahr and others mentioned on AW, trademark registration is not a requirement for use.
@freqmax
Seems like the chain is Commodore -> Escom -> Gateway -> Amino Development.
It's a more extensive chain of names than that actually.
@psxphill
You'd have to go through the contracts, for example Amino may only have licensed the software and not transferred ownership of the copyright from Gateway.
There is still no evidence to prove that the company now known for the nth time as Amiga Inc. is classified as anything but an exclusive licensee.
Since this is fairly close to the claim of "ownership", people often ask what the difference is in reality.
Nate Downes answered that on this site years ago and others concur. It's about transfer of rights without the owner's approval. I'll let you decide if the theory is valid.
You could probably instruct a lawyer to contact the relevant parties though.
And that's not a problem. The contacts are known by those who wish/need to make contact. The issue is that you can not accept the words of the attorneys as fact. I'll let you decide if that is due to expressing rights in terms of the interests of their clients or if they really just do not know. In the end, only a test in court determines these rights, or so I am told.
If there is one line from the freeamiga website worth remembering, it is this:
In a way, the new "Amiga" companies got what they wanted: complete confusion.
More info on the Commodore end of the history:
Nedfield (http://www.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28292&forum=17)
#6
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The issue is that you can not accept the words of the attorneys as fact. I'll let you decide if that is due to expressing rights in terms of the interests of their clients or if they really just do not know. In the end, only a test in court determines these rights, or so I am told.
Yes, a court is the only real test. However that will only happen if someone decides to pursue litigation against you.
If you have instructed a licensed attorney to draw up a contract with whoever they deem to own the rights, then if they were wrong then you sue the attorney and the person you licensed from. If you show you acted in good faith then the court are less likely to throw the book at you.
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Yes, a court is the only real test. However that will only happen if someone decides to pursue litigation against you.
And for what I believe is a variety of reasons (not simply loss of rights), I don't see this happening atm.
If you have instructed a licensed attorney to draw up a contract with whoever they deem to own the rights, then if they were wrong then you sue the attorney and the person you licensed from. If you show you acted in good faith then the court are less likely to throw the book at you.
Exactly. I've heard this in laymans' terms as "based on an assumption" from which to work. (deem to own the rights).
#6
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So the evil masterplan is to write a license contract with someone that claim they own the copyright and then when it's tried in court you can blame-someone-else ..? A complication is if that company is empty for money and your own company would then by demanded to provide compensation.
In essence if one has the financial resources and will to take the gamble one can make "legal" use of these ROMs.
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So the evil masterplan is to write a license contract with someone that claim they own the copyright and then when it's tried in court you can blame-someone-else ..? A complication is if that company is empty for money and your own company would then by demanded to provide compensation.
In essence if one has the financial resources and will to take the gamble one can make "legal" use of these ROMs.
You are likely to have to pay compensation in either way, but damages for wilful disregard is likely to be higher.
You wouldn't just find a random person, you'd need to get an attorney to follow the trail. They might not be able or willing to do that, or you might not be willing to pay their fee. If it goes wrong then you can always sue your attorney for mal-practise.
To make legal use of the roms will always take financial resources, even if commodore were still operating.
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Who cares about the original roms today. We have the rom replacements now and I personal use them only in WHDLoad today (from my amigaforever installation)
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Compatibility, especially if software likes to rely on magic bytes..
"Hey we assume 0xc0ffee00 is at jump vector 0xdeadbeef so lets jump straight to 0x55891232 because super duper function is there.. !"
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How good are the replacement ROMs?
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At least AROS-m68k is not good enough for the UAE emulator for Unix. But I read that it should work on FPGA Replay.
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At least AROS-m68k is not good enough for the UAE emulator for Unix. But I read that it should work on FPGA Replay.
The last time I heard the major problem was speed, graphics.library/HID were designed around a fast processor and vga and not 68000 and ocs/ecs/aga.
I'm hoping that a new driver architecture will be created at some point that solves that.
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New driver architecture = incompatible with classic m68k hardware and AmigaOS (ROM).
The last I read on AROS-68k in UAE was that it got stuck on serial or parallell port initialization with a black screen.
How can graphics.library/HID be designed for VGA when classic Amiga in many cases were fully dependent on PAL/NTSC ..?
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The last I read on AROS-68k in UAE was that it got stuck on serial or parallell port initialization with a black screen.
There are a lot of posts online of people running aros68k in uae in 2012.
How can graphics.library/HID be designed for VGA when classic Amiga in many cases were fully dependent on PAL/NTSC ..?
I'm referring to the AROS implementation of graphics.library, HID is the AROS device interface. By designed for VGA, I mean an actual VGA card sitting in a PC and not the 60hz/31khz video output that it produces.
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There are a lot of posts online of people running aros68k in uae in 2012.
Yeah, it's quite usable now... I was running the early alphas put out by Toni and Jason even earlier than that.
I'm referring to the AROS implementation of graphics.library, HID is the AROS device interface. By designed for VGA, I mean an actual VGA card sitting in a PC and not the 60hz/31khz video output that it produces.
Yeah, the AROS 68k Amiga Graphics Chipset drivers lack any optimisation, so it is slow at the moment without a gfx card.
But most games only need AmigaOS/AROS to boot and configure the machine making AROS 68k rather useful for running games :)
Toni includes an AROS Kickstart ROM with WinUAE as a fallback option for people without an original Kickstart ROM image!
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But most games only need AmigaOS/AROS to boot and configure the machine making AROS 68k rather useful for running games :)
I think it's a bit of a waste if AROS is just used for that though.
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I think it's a bit of a waste if AROS is just used for that though.
I agree, and if you have a gfx card (or when AROS gets a decent AGA driver), then it's the way to go over the original AmigaOS IMO.
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There are a lot of posts online of people running aros68k in uae in 2012.
If you mean MS-Windows WinUAE..
I'm referring to the AROS implementation of graphics.library, HID is the AROS device interface. By designed for VGA, I mean an actual VGA card sitting in a PC and not the 60hz/31khz video output that it produces.
You must mean AROS on x86 or so.
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If you mean MS-Windows WinUAE..
And supposedly on AROS x86 uae.
You must mean AROS on x86 or so.
AROS on any platform uses the same graphics.library that wasn't designed to be fast on OCS/ECS/AGA.
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Two patents remaining in the USA:
Filed-date, Patent-no, Description
1996-09-30 6,484,189 (http://www.google.com/patents/US6484189) Methods and apparatus for a multimedia authoring and presentation system
1995-01-17 5,574,843 (https://www.google.com/patents/US5574843) Methods and apparatus providing for a presentation system for multimedia applications
But patent 5,574,843 should not be valid anymore? it has a priority date of 1991-04-26 and it's filed on 1995-01-17 (http://www.patentbuddy.com/Patent/5574843) which is 5 months before the change in duration length (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_patent_law#Legislation). That state "For applications filed before June 8, 1995, the term is either 17 years from the issue date or 20 years from the earliest claimed domestic priority date, whichever is longer." The issue date is 1996-11-12.
So it should have expired no later than end of november 2013 ..?
Patent 5,574,843 seems to be about a system to create and present interactive multimedia presentations and coursework. Patent 6,484,189 seems to be about the same stuff. It even looks like a dupe. So the Amiga system itself should now be in the clear and the only remaining patent encumbering would possible be 6,484,189. That should leave projects like Minimig and FPGA Replay completely in the clear?
Link to European search, which seems to be missing patent fulltext:
https://register.epo.org/smartSearch?lng=en
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The last ones applied to the AmigaVision multimedia authoring system. They're not needed for AGA.
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At least AROS-m68k is not good enough for the UAE emulator for Unix. But I read that it should work on FPGA Replay.
What emulator are you talking about? It works with FS-UAE.
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The last time I heard the major problem was speed, graphics.library/HID were designed around a fast processor and vga and not 68000 and ocs/ecs/aga.
I'm hoping that a new driver architecture will be created at some point that solves that.
from Aros Shortlog (Toni Wilen)
"Partially revert r45687, since m68k-amiga blitter support was added, all planar bitmaps have to be in chip ram."
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toni has fixed and improved the planar hidd greatly in the last few days. there are remaining glitches especially with drawline, but ocassional and hard to track down to a simple reproducable testcase. also i guess would be great to add fast cpu blitting in the fashion of fblit to the setpatch for faster cpus (the fallback routines are slow according to toni), as aros is anyway aimed at those. the bitmaps might then be removed back to fastram conserving the chip for immediate screen display.