Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: orb85750 on March 22, 2009, 01:29:57 AM
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While some may question the justification for still using classic Amiga hardware in this century, I have to wonder more about Minimig. It's a cool idea and certainly a nice accomplishment, but it seems to be a more expensive and not fully compatible way to experience classic Amiga. Any devoted Minimig users out there? -Dave
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I don't own a Minimig but compatibility is great and gets better with each revision of the fpga core. Here's a link to the software compatibility list: http://www.opencircuits.com/Minimig_Software_compatibility
An even more robust system is the FPGA Arcade. It will emulate an Atari, Amiga, and various arcade systems depending on which core you load. It even has IDE capability.
See: http://www.fpgaarcade.com/
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Minimig is the first step in open source simmulation of (any) Amiga chipset. It starts with OCS, is now nearly full ECS compatible and also could grow to AGA on different pcb.
You can find very much information in this forum by searching for "minimig" or just visit www.minimig.net for even more user and infos about this project.
PS: I do love Minimig because it started as a one man show (Dennis v. Weeren) and already has many interested user and platforms :-)
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I hope that over time, the Minimig might evolve to something that can be a drop in replacement for even high end m68k systems. :-)
Chipset emulation is already "good enough", IDE-drive emulation is coming soon... then more RAM, and maybe someone finds a way to hook in a gfx chipset, and before you know it we're tearing out the 68060s from our old machines to populate high end minimigs :lol:
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If you want something that looks like an Amiga and runs non-AGA Amiga software but isn't an Amiga, and want to spend more money than it'd take to run UAE on your modern computer, then I suppose it's worthwhile. I think it's a really neat idea, and I'm impressed that someone built it, but I wouldn't buy one personally. If one was given to me for free, I'd probably use it for a week then never touch it again.
For me a big part of the Amiga experience is using the old hardware. Using an emulator (I've tried a few times) loses my interest after a day or two. When I no longer can use a real Amiga machine, I may fire up UAE for a game or two once every year or three, but pretty much at that point I'll be done with Amigas.
I guess my point is, nobody but you can say if it's worth your money to get one.
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I have a minimig and it's a great little Amiga! I know I haven't pushed it to its limits, but for showing off demos and playing non-AGA games it's perfect.
It's also the most portable Amiga. Heck, you can take it to a friend's house with a couple of joysticks, and use their keyboard, mouse and monitor to play games.
Minimig is a nice addition to my retro hardware and I'm not worried about it blowing a cap and failing any time soon!
Bob
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murple wrote:
If you want something that looks like an Amiga and runs non-AGA Amiga software but isn't an Amiga, and want to spend more money than it'd take to run UAE on your modern computer, then I suppose it's worthwhile. I think it's a really neat idea, and I'm impressed that someone built it, but I wouldn't buy one personally. If one was given to me for free, I'd probably use it for a week then never touch it again.
For me a big part of the Amiga experience is using the old hardware. Using an emulator (I've tried a few times) loses my interest after a day or two. When I no longer can use a real Amiga machine, I may fire up UAE for a game or two once every year or three, but pretty much at that point I'll be done with Amigas.
I guess my point is, nobody but you can say if it's worth your money to get one.
My thoughts exactly! for the same price as one, you can get just about any REAL Amiga , and not have to worry IF the thing will run the software. You don't have to worry about "Obtaining LEGAL ROMS" etc.
For roughly the same price, you can get 2 Amiga 500's a couple dozen games, Joysticks , Peripherals etc and still have enough left over for a copy of "Amiga forever" to run on your PC and beer money. Just plug in and go, no hunting for a case, ROMS and worrying IF it's going to actually run the program you want. :lol:
I guess if the price ever drops to less then an A500, it might be worth picking up.
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beller wrote:
It's also the most portable Amiga. Heck, you can take it to a friend's house with a couple of joysticks, and use their keyboard, mouse and monitor to play games.
I won't get into an argument right now about whether it's an Amiga or not, other than to say it's not ;)
That said, while it is portable, I'd argue that a small laptop with UAE and some USB joysticks are even more portable, plus can run more things including AGA stuff.
The coolest thing about the Minimig is that somebody made it. I almost wish I wanted one because I like supporting geeks who do cool {bleep} like that... but I just don't want one.
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murple wrote:
If you want something that looks like an Amiga and runs non-AGA Amiga software but isn't an Amiga, and want to spend more money than it'd take to run UAE on your modern computer, then I suppose it's worthwhile. I think it's a really neat idea, and I'm impressed that someone built it, but I wouldn't buy one personally. If one was given to me for free, I'd probably use it for a week then never touch it again.
Each to their own. I've used WinUAE and Amiga Forever from the early days and I get a better experience and more use out of my Minimig.
The beauty of the Minimig is the simplicity of it. I mounted mine in a PC keyboard so it's as easy to transport as wrapping the mouse around the keyboard and shoving the PSU into my pocket.
There's no worries about using joysticks either. Just plug your old Atari-style joysticks into the ports and away you go (the extra PS2 mouse port means no swapping anymore).
UAE is a cheap imitation of Amiga hardware. The Minimig is new classic Amiga hardware. Currently Minimig v1.1 has 1.5MB RAM, ECS, 28MHz 68000, 4 floppy drives, PAL and NTSC modes, a scan doubler and hard drive booting OS3.1. It makes it a cost effective A500 replacement for games.
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quarkx wrote:
My thoughts exactly! for the same price as one, you can get just about any REAL Amiga , and not have to worry IF the thing will run the software. You don't have to worry about "Obtaining LEGAL ROMS" etc.
For roughly the same price, you can get 2 Amiga 500's a couple dozen games, Joysticks , Peripherals etc and still have enough left over for a copy of "Amiga forever" to run on your PC and beer money. Just plug in and go, no hunting for a case, ROMS and worrying IF it's going to actually run the program you want. :lol:
I guess if the price ever drops to less then an A500, it might be worth picking up.
Believe it or not my minimig plays a good number of games that just wont run on my highly expanded A1200 even with the help of whdload. Some games just don't like BlizzardPPC cards very much not that have have any plans to ditch my Blizzard card.
I have 2 old A500 both have developed hardware problems over the years they have been in storage since I got my new A1200 in 1992, they may just have faulty cap but one has audio problems and the other just fails to post. But even if they were still working you would need to spend about £100 to purchase an Amiga scan doubler if you want to connect it to a modern monitor.
I also have and use WinUAE, Amiga forever and a Catweasel mk4 yes Amiga emulation works very nicely to run 68K Applications and games but it more complex to setup and my minimig makes a much better gaming platform to use after a few pints down the pub. It quicker to setup and has no moving parts to worry about when some one trips over the cable and pulls it on the floor again
:lol:
I don't really push my minimig to the limits as its mainly used to play Lotus 1, 2 and 3, Pinball dreams and fantasies on a Saturday night after a few drinks.
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Darrin wrote:
UAE is a cheap imitation of Amiga hardware. The Minimig is new classic Amiga hardware. Currently Minimig v1.1 has 1.5MB RAM, ECS, 28MHz 68000, 4 floppy drives, PAL and NTSC modes, a scan doubler and hard drive booting OS3.1. It makes it a cost effective A500 replacement for games.
Make that possible 3.5MB :-)
General:
Minimig and (any)UAE is not compareable to each other because emulation and simulation is a big difference! The fpga Amiga is a native simulator, no one will ever notice any difference to real Amiga(500/2000) on the same screen. Smooth scrolling and perfect feeling as on the real machine!
Of course I do understand in different interests. If one just like the real hardware, he may do so :-)
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Dwyloc wrote:
Believe it or not my minimig plays a good number of games that just wont run on my highly expanded A1200 even with the help of whdload. Some games just don't like BlizzardPPC cards very much not that have have any plans to ditch my Blizzard card.
You know that with most Blizzard cards, you can completely disable the accelerator by holding down the 2 key when powering on, right?
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murple wrote:
You know that with most Blizzard cards, you can completely disable the accelerator by holding down the 2 key when powering on, right?
Yes but then I lose my SCSI HD with my OS installed on it and my extra ram, so I cant use whdload any longer. My blizzard 1240 040 dose not have the lose of HD problem but I still loose the ram and keep the AGA chipset.
That's one of the main reason that the minimig is better for some games as it runs from disk images and dose not have the compatibility problems caused by AGA and the 020 cpu that whdload is needed to fix.
That's why I would say that an A1200 with an 030 and some extra ram is the best Amiga gaming platform with the help of whdload as just about everything then works well from hard disk.
But when the minimig gets a ram upgrade and harddisk support if will be a toss up for which is the better gaming platform as the the minimig is new hardware with out any of the problems that go with hardware that is 15 years or so old and with a build in scan doubler so it works with a modern monitor.
If you still have a working 030 A1200 with a hard disk and a scan doubler you probably don't need a minimig.
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boing4000 wrote:
Make that possible 3.5MB :-)
General:
Minimig and (any)UAE is not compareable to each other because emulation and simulation is a big difference! The fpga Amiga is a native simulator, no one will ever notice any difference to real Amiga(500/2000) on the same screen. Smooth scrolling and perfect feeling as on the real machine!
Of course I do understand in different interests. If one just like the real hardware, he may do so :-)
I have the RAM chips ready, I just need the time to fit them - the soldering is going to be a real {bleep} of a job, but I'm going to give it a go. Actually I have 4 chips because there was a minimim order price from the company so I got a spare set "just in case".
My 4 weeks off when I planned to do this vanished in a puff of smoke and my company has had me working in Houston and Lafayette and then they sent me back to Rio a week early (I'm at the airport now waiting for my plane).
I'm "supposed" to have 4 weeks off when I get back. Hopefully I can have a go then. :-)
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Take your time in soldering those RAM chips Darrin. Its of course possible but require a quiet hand and suitable equipment like: 0.7mm fine solder, desoldering braid (and if available solder flux). Also the upper RAM chips has to match pin grid accurately, else its hard to solder a stable contact.
If there is any problem, Im sure Jakub or I can help to make your BigMem-Minimig run :-)
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boing4000 wrote:
Take your time in soldering those RAM chips Darrin. Its of course possible but require a quiet hand and suitable equipment like: 0.7mm fine solder, desoldering braid (and if available solder flux). Also the upper RAM chips has to match pin grid accurately, else its hard to solder a stable contact.
If there is any problem, Im sure Jakub or I can help to make your BigMem-Minimig run :-)
Cheers for the advice. Jakub sent me a guide and some pics. I've got the fine solder, desoldering braid and plenty of beer to calm my nerves. I just need to find some gel flux.
If I can manage to do this then anybody should. :-)
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Hey,
I've also got a couple of extra RAMs, bought with the intent of upgrading the memory.
Any advice on how to do so? Do I have to straighten the tip of each pin?
Cheers!
Edwin
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wolfchild wrote:
Hey,
I've also got a couple of extra RAMs, bought with the intent of upgrading the memory.
Any advice on how to do so? Do I have to straighten the tip of each pin?
Cheers!
Edwin
Use a set of pliers with FLAT blades (not crimped for gripping) to squeeze the legs of the chips flat otherwise they wont reach the legs of the chips already on the board.
Don't forget that one leg of each new RAM chip doesn't get soldered to the lower RAM block, but it connected by wire to the spare I/O pins.
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Thanks Darrin!
I need to buy me some desoldering wick and give it a try. I think the chip select pins should be connected to the IO ports, right?
There is a photo from Jakub of the mod on minimig.net. Will make sure to study it closely before putting any tools to them chips and board :)
Edwin
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Right, each pin #6 is not to bend. This modification will only work in new core release. Currently the extra ChipEnable lines should not be connected to spare IO pin, it could cause unwanted trouble.
It would be best to use removeable connection at spare IO due to some alternative FPGA core on Minimig pcb. FPGA64 and VIC20 core uses spare IO for Floppy IEC bus connection, This could interfere if suddenly some RAM enable went to low and cause a bus conflict.
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boing4000 wrote:
Right, each pin #6 is not to bend. This modification will only work in new core release. Currently the extra ChipEnable lines should not be connected to spare IO pin, it could cause unwanted trouble.
It would be best to use removeable connection at spare IO due to some alternative FPGA core on Minimig pcb. FPGA64 and VIC20 core uses spare IO for Floppy IEC bus connection, This could interfere if suddenly some RAM enable went to low and cause a bus conflict.
However, in my case with the ARM expansion the lines do need to be connected to the I/O pins.
It might be an idea not to do the mod if your planning to buy an ARM board until you fit it as unsoldering and bending pins after they have been soldered in place might cause problems.
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Huh, RAM upgrade? How much RAM is the result?
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kolla wrote:
Huh, RAM upgrade? How much RAM is the result?
It adds another 2MB to the board to give 3.5MB total which is enough to use WHDload with the 28MHz 68000 and the Hard File for playing games from Workbench (assuming you don't want to load them from the ADFs).
The C-One Minimig core actually gives you 8MB of RAM.
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Darrin wrote:
kolla wrote:
Huh, RAM upgrade? How much RAM is the result?
It adds another 2MB to the board to give 3.5MB total which is enough to use WHDload with the 28MHz 68000 and the Hard File for playing games from Workbench (assuming you don't want to load them from the ADFs).
Interesting - any reason why up to 8 MB is not possible on Minimig as well?
Btw - why havent I seen anything about this on www.minimig.net ? :-)