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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Marcb on March 06, 2009, 09:36:46 PM

Title: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Marcb on March 06, 2009, 09:36:46 PM
Hi,

Just curious, I've bought two of these on ebay for my 2000 & 3000 and haven't got around to installing them yet:

 Ebay Link (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Amiga-2000-3000-LITHIUM-ION-BACKUP-BATTERY-complete-set_W0QQitemZ220371180706QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item220371180706&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177)

I've just noticed that the same seller also has for sale an Amiga 4000 lithium Ion battery replacement...


Why would there be two different ones, is there a difference between the a2000/a3000 and a/4000 batteries?

Marcb
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: djbase on March 06, 2009, 10:29:08 PM
No, its everywhere the same. Just a Lithium coin, a socket and a diode - very simple.

You can also get one of these (http://www.amigaworld.de/hardware/lithium-batterie-modul/) (they look better and are cheaper).  :-D
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: sim085 on March 06, 2009, 10:48:48 PM
Quote

DJBase wrote:
You can also get one of these (http://www.amigaworld.de/hardware/lithium-batterie-modul/) (they look better and are cheaper).  :-D
(Sorry to hijack this thread .. a little)

From where can I buy one of those? From that same site? (Sorry I do not know German).

Regards,
Sim085
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: bloodline on March 06, 2009, 10:52:20 PM
Quote

sim085 wrote:
Quote

DJBase wrote:
You can also get one of these (http://www.amigaworld.de/hardware/lithium-batterie-modul/) (they look better and are cheaper).  :-D
(Sorry to hijack this thread .. a little)

From where can I buy one of those? From that same site? (Sorry I do not know German).


Good excuse to learn, no? :-D
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: quarkx on March 06, 2009, 10:54:43 PM
I also would be interested, AmigaKit just sells the holders, not the diode kit, Is there a translation of that page for us poor English only speaking people?
Now where is that linkwords German floppy I got the other day?....
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Marcb on March 06, 2009, 10:55:47 PM
Thanks for the reply and link!

Indeed does look good, how would I buy one of those in the link? ( My German to English dictionary can't cope! :-) )


I wonder why he has listed them separately though?
Perhaps he did it to keep the listing size down as he includes pics on how to install them in the listing...  
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: djbase on March 06, 2009, 11:24:40 PM
Just send me a PM and you can get some.  ;-)
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Zac67 on March 06, 2009, 11:34:58 PM
Just for completeness: lithium coin battery != lithium ion rechargeable battery - it's neither 'ion' nor rechargeable.

The lithum hack is very simple: you solder a germanium diode (just about any type) in line with the coin battery in order to prevent recharging the (non-rechargeable) battery. The only thing to worry about is to point the striped (cathode) end of the diode away from the + contact of the battery (or towards the - contact) and you're set.

CR2032 battery: 50c
battery clip: 1.20€ (salvaged from an old PC mobo: 0c)
germanium diode: 30c
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: beller on March 06, 2009, 11:58:00 PM
That's exactly what the gentleman on EBay is selling, a modified coin battery holder with a diode installed.  I ordered one and installed it last week in my A3000D.  I haven't had a clock since I got the machine 3 years ago!

I'm very happy to give him a little something extra for packaging this.  I wasn't brave enough to try it on my own!

Bob
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: dannyp1 on March 07, 2009, 05:35:45 PM
What happens if you do this without the diode?  What happens to the non rechargeable battery when it is charged.  I'm just asking because it seems like I remember many people in my old users group just using the coin battery and the holder.  No diode.  I don't remember anyone's battery or computer blowing up or anything.  What damage is done?  Does it just shorten the batteries life?

Dan
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: djbase on March 07, 2009, 06:15:51 PM
If you charge a non-chargeable battery it will explode.
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: dannyp1 on March 07, 2009, 08:06:36 PM
DJBase said:      "it will explode."

So I am assuming there are many documented cases of batteries exploding inside Amiga computers?  When people buy C & D battery chargers and put non-rechargeable batteries in them are they exploding also?
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Gavilan on March 07, 2009, 09:06:19 PM
Is it that hard to make this hack?
I mean..im ZERO with soldering iron and all technical stuff, but with a diagram, or a simple picture of what/where do i have to solder...would it be possible even for a dummy like me to actually bring clock again to my Big Box Amigas?

Sebastian
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Zac67 on March 07, 2009, 10:05:49 PM
Quote
So I am assuming there are many documented cases of batteries exploding inside Amiga computers?  When people buy C & D battery chargers and put non-rechargeable batteries in them are they exploding also?

Not that I know of exploded non-rechargeables in Amigas, but they do explode when charged (tried that with AAs myself). If the charging current is low enough you might get away with a dead battery instead of a burst one.

Anyway, I prefer replacing the battery with a rechargeable NiMH barrel-shaped one or 3 AAs in a clip, but putting them out of harm's way with a bit of cabling.
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: djbase on March 07, 2009, 11:04:38 PM
Quote

Gavilan wrote:
Is it that hard to make this hack?
I mean..im ZERO with soldering iron and all technical stuff, but with a diagram, or a simple picture of what/where do i have to solder...would it be possible even for a dummy like me to actually bring clock again to my Big Box Amigas?

Sebastian


http://www.amigaworld.de/workshops/lithium-knopfzellen/
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Gavilan on March 08, 2009, 05:39:13 PM
@DJBase: excellent stuff my friend!!!!

Will do this tomorrow monday!!

Danke!!!

Sebastian
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Zac67 on March 08, 2009, 06:55:41 PM
Either I've got some visual problems or the aw.de folks got the diode reversed... :roll:

PS: I've contacted Matthias about this and he's corrected the sketch - thanks! (FF needed a shift-reload to load the graphics).
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Polymorph on March 08, 2009, 11:07:44 PM
That auction is wrong, that is a lithium battery, not lithium ion.

I feel I should clarify lest someone tthink it is a good idea to use a rechargeable LiIon cell. It would be hazardous to install a rechargeable lithium ion battery and try to trickle charge it. LiIon cells are -very- picky about the rate of charge. They may simply die quickly, or burn and destroy your MB.

What he is -really- selling is a lithium button cell with a holder and a diode in series so current can only flow out, not in.

I "turbocharged" several Amigas by installing AAA battery holders on the case with long wires to the MB. I used three-battery holders with a silicon diode, 4.5V=0.7V=3.8V, close enough to the 3.6V NiCd cells it is meant for. And I put a sticker in there specifying -only- alkaline cells and gave the owners instructions to replace the batteries every two years. I also put a 470uF 6V capacitor in parallel with the batteries to give a few minutes to change the batteries.

I'd also converted some using carbon-layer capacitors, but longer initial charging time was a complication. Now I think I'd use polyacine capacitors. No leakage ever, much longer life, no problem with charging.
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: motrucker on March 10, 2009, 03:15:28 AM
There are various way to go about this. Cordless phone battery packs (many are the correct voltage - pick one that is) or - buy you own Button battery setup - Damn -  a regular holder is about $.20, the diode is about $.20 and the battery is about $.75 tops.
Don't get ripped off!
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: terminator4 on March 20, 2009, 07:43:09 PM
http://www.amigaworld.de/hardware/lithium-batterie-modul/

By better, do you mean the pcb all parts are on?  if so then its not a big deal really.  Does it fit all amigas and where can one buy it?
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: terminator4 on March 20, 2009, 07:50:56 PM
@Gavilian

that hack is easy.  Made one myself and it works great! :-)
aminet has the diagram.
http://aminet.net/docs/hard/LithBatt.lha
This has been done a long time ago on aminet...
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Polymorph on March 20, 2009, 08:17:19 PM
Quote

motrucker wrote:
There are various way to go about this. Cordless phone battery packs (many are the correct voltage - pick one that is)


Make sure you get a -small- cordless phone battery pack. The
Amiga MB is only giving it a small trickle charge. I found that with 120mAhr 3.6V three cell NiCd packs, you'd better pre-charge them before connecting, and the stock trickle charge wasn't always enough to compensate for self-discharge.

That's why I just switched to AAA alkaline and a diode. DO NOT USE "HEAVY DUTY" OR ZINC BATTERIES. "Heavy duty" are just a fancier Zinc battery. Carbon-zinc batteries can sit in a drawer for a -long- time, but the first time they are used they start breaking down and will eventually leak all over.

Alkalines very rarely leak, and it doesn't spread.
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: djbase on March 20, 2009, 09:15:46 PM
Quote

terminator4 wrote:
http://www.amigaworld.de/hardware/lithium-batterie-modul/

By better, do you mean the pcb all parts are on?  if so then its not a big deal really.  Does it fit all amigas and where can one buy it?


Drop me a PM if want such a PCB version. And yes, it works on all amigas.
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Nostalgiac on March 20, 2009, 09:44:18 PM
I couldn't be bothered ... so I just got a new barrel battery from Maplin.co.uk ... it should do me for enough years before it needs replacing again :/

Tom UK

Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Damion on March 21, 2009, 02:06:34 AM
On my A2000, I simply removed R803 (current-limiting resistor for the original NiCd) and replaced with a germanium diode (1N60)... then soldered the coin socket directly to the board and used a regular CR2032. Cheap, looks best IMHO, and nothing special to order. :-)

 
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Sandman on March 21, 2009, 03:12:13 AM
-D- that is an AWESOME idea!  I would have never thought of that but will definitely do that on my next battery hack.... should put a sticky-note on the PCB crediting you with the idea too! :lol:

I usually just stick the diode under the battery holder which usually doesn't look to bad.

Would this work the same on a A3000?
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Damion on March 21, 2009, 03:35:49 AM
@Sandman

I wouldn't have thought of it either, but I had the motherboard out to replace some caps, so it kind of caught my eye after staring at things for a few hours. :lol:

Quote
Would this work the same on a A3000?


I haven't looked at the A3000 yet, but I plan on doing that one next - probably it's just as easy. :-)
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Sandman on March 21, 2009, 09:42:58 PM
-D-

Any reason for using the germanium 1N60 instead of just using a 1N914 switching diode?  I'm pretty electronics illiterate. :hammer:
Title: Re: Replacing battery with Lithium Ion
Post by: Damion on March 21, 2009, 10:16:16 PM
Quote

Sandman wrote:
-D-

Any reason for using the germanium 1N60 instead of just using a 1N914 switching diode?  I'm pretty electronics illiterate. :hammer:


There's less voltage drop. The OKI RTC chip should stay alive with as little as 2v, so the small difference (as much as 0.5v) could matter when the battery is worn.