Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: DoomMaster on September 11, 2003, 03:14:35 AM
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Do you have military grade chips in your Amiga? You should check and see if you do. The first run Amiga 1000 and 2000 computers had them. The military grade ICs have purple-pink ceramic bodies and gold-platted legs. They are designed to last about 15 years at 100% duty cycle. Since the average Amiga user only uses their computer for about 6 hours per day, this is only a 25% duty cycle, so the military grade chips will last between 30 to 60 years. They can still be damaged by static-electricity and power surges, so be carefull. If you have any of these ICs in your Amiga 1000 or 2000 computer, I would be willing to buy them from you. :-D
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I had some military chips but they got fried one day. Yeah, I was playing Turrican and accidently set the A2000 on both War Emergency Overide and Battle Short at the same time. I do have some Nuvistors and some RCA red seal tubes in my bomb shelter though. Oh yeah, also I am trying to get an an EMP shielded motherboard from Genisi. I want it to put in my titanium case with the hand-crank power supply and AN/PRC-56 cranium input system.
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To KapitanKlystron:
What the F**K did you just say?! :-o
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How many are you looking for?
And, if it's o.k. to ask, what are you going to use them all for?
AmigaGuy
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To an expert like you it should be obvious. I can tell that you are a famous double-naught spy or rocket surgeon.
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I had some for a while, but the government came and took my 2000s away. Something about the 143rd transvestite brigade, airborne wing in FANTASTIC makeup using them for strategic sheep purposes.
If I could still help ya, I would, but they're in the hands of the army now.
Were you suprised? I was suprised.
They've got guns! They've got guns!!
:-D
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Sure, commodore installed some A1000 with military grade chips in case they ever had to go into combat. A military grade paula can - uh - play some 8-bit sound and control serial and parallel ports in any intense combat situation. These Amigas are usually identified by the fitting of a 7.62x32mm recoilless rifle in the upper drive bay, but in some models this even had a flamethrower attachment. I've seen them take direct hits in combat and still be able to format disks reliably.
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To amigaguy:
I am going to install them into my 3 Amiga 2000HD computers. I also want to have backups sitting in my closet, so I will need about 5 of each custom Amiga chip, 5 68010 processors, and 10 of the 8520 ICs. I am also looking for the military spec DRAMs, but these are extremely rare. I need about 32 of the DRAMs. :-P
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@KennyR
I had A1000 that survived a 3" shell hit. Of course that isn't typical but it did have ceramic chips.
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I think that these chips were really made by aliens, and were accidentally shipped to Earth by mistake. Medhi & the other members of Majestic12 are secretly buying up this stock in order to ship them back to Remulac.
:-D
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@ JimS ,
Ya, I think your on to something there, I think you just blew Doomies cover.
I think he's maybe being misled by the evil grey collective. The plans for the Doomie saucer craft will fail because the chips being used are not space grade chips, millitary grade chips are not space grade ! They will not be able to withstand the rigors of interplanetary space/time travel. I know this because I'm a professional. ;-)
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I swore I commented here.
Anyways, one of the chips in my A1000's look similar to how you describe, but only 1 of them.
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Where did this DoomMaster character come from and why does he pass himself off as an expert??
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To downix:
Do you want to sell it? :-?
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It's threads like this that remind me why I still come here. ;-)
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To N7VQM:
I never said that I was an "expert". :-o
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@Doommaster
Wouldn't do you any good, it's the Agnus, which has a different pin-arrangement in your A2000's.
Also, it's an original unit with a low production number.
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@DoomMaster
If you ever have one each of all of the ceramic chips made out in one place I'd love to see a picture of them all together. (it'd be great if you could make out the #'s on the photo too).
Anyway, I think your an over the top true Amiga fanatic! :) And I salute you..
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Heck, take a picture of just ONE and post it here, it should take care of those who don't believe you.
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So what if your chips will last 30 to 60 years, what good will a 10MHz chip be then, check that, what good is a 10MHz chip now? I can tell you what it will be in 30 years time, a working museum artifact, woohoo. Why don't you do something useful and put it in a time capsule, that way in a 1000 or so years somone will open it and be able to play Defender of the Crown.
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5 of each custom Amiga chip, 5 68010 processors, and 10 of the 8520 ICs. I am also looking for the military spec DRAMs, but these are extremely rare. I need about 32 of the DRAMs.
And if each of these chips lasts 15 years, that means you'll still be using your Amiga 2000HD Professional nearly into the next century. WTF????? :-P Yes, I too salute you as the only true Amiga fanatic here! Oo-rah to military spec!
Say, now that I'm thinking about it 'tho, wasn't there something about the Amiga's clock giving out in 2046? :-D
(edit: @adz - looks like you & I were posting at the same time)
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@ DoomMaster,
I like your new army helmet but may I suggest trading it in for a nice shiney pointed tin foil one ?
These are said to lend some protection from errant cosmic rays.
Millitary grade components are of no use on interstellar voyages beyond eight lightyears if you intend on returning to earth, for long interstellar travel all computational devices must contain aero space components.
Also for your safety may I also suggest that all Amiga computational devices aboard the interstellar craft be running the following program at all times.
here...
http://zapatopi.net/mindguard.html
neglecting to do so could be dangerous !
I hope this info helps. ;-)
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http://zapatopi.net/mindguard.html
Not Found
The requested URL /pub/aminet/util/misc/MindGuard.lha was not found on this server
Nooooooooo!!! They're on to you! :-x :-x :-x :-P
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Hi Oldsmobile_Mike,
It's OK Mike, I've got it already and it's running all the time. They'll never get me...
:-P
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I'm scared sarge! army surplus Amigas,AAAAAHHHH!
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LOL I have an old Amiga 1000 myself and i am not sure that what you are describing constitutes millitary grade chips, from what I understand from the Amiga launch in NYC, any chips in original A1000s are there because C=MOS didn't make them. They weren't in the process yet of adapting from 6502 type chips to the motorola processors. Another thing was the Amiga at that time was a "Special Computer" like the macintosh a cut above the other line and was priced and made more expensively. It wasn't till Commodore cost reduced the product with the A500 that C=MOS technologies was fully into production. As far as I know only the 8520 CIA chips (which are a lot like those in the 8 bit line) were actually MOSTek..
Please someone tell me if I am wrong. I can tell you this I don't believe these were millitary "grade" chips because I saw a lot of Amiga 1000's with their CIA chips go bad.. Mostly because people did stupid things like plugging things in and out when they shouldn't have.
So my belief in the machine being millitary grade doesn't float, although I bet if we ASKED NASA we'd know for sure..
-Don
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@Oldsmobile_Mike
Oldsmobile_Mike wrote:
http://zapatopi.net/mindguard.html
Not Found
The requested URL /pub/aminet/util/misc/MindGuard.lha was not found on this server
Nooooooooo!!! They're on to you! :-x :-x :-x :-P
http://www.aminet.net/game/gag/MindGuard.lha
I'm not sure do you really need that :)) ANyways try this link.
@Tony23
How did you find that site??? I mean seriously, what was you looking for? :)))
Regards,
levelLORD
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Hi levelLORD,
I'm sorry but I can't tell you how I found it, that would require a top level security clearance. ;-)
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@ tony23
:D
Man, that site is sooo scary :))))
Take care,
levelLORD
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To Lo:
There are 4 military spec Amiga custom chips on eBay right now. Go have a look. :-D
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DoomMaster wrote:
There are 4 military spec Amiga custom chips on eBay right now. Go have a look. :-D
Are you refering to these?
Agnus (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2556756590&category=4663)
Denise (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2556757440&category=4663)
Paula (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2556758147&category=4663)
8520 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2556758689&category=4663)
If so, then I HIGHLY doubt these are MIL-SPEC parts. It's much more likely they are in a cer-dip package simply because they have high power disipation like the good old VIC in my C64. Why go through all the trouble of designing a part that can operate from -55C to +125C when the part will never be subjected to these extreams?
You have to remember that these chips where designed and built in the early eighties. They had alot of transistors in them for the time.
Too bad locating a datasheet for these components is neigh on impossible. Anybody have the foggiest clue where one might be sourced?
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N7VQM wrote:
DoomMaster wrote:
There are 4 military spec Amiga custom chips on eBay right now. Go have a look. :-D
Are you refering to these?
Agnus (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2556756590&category=4663)
Denise (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2556757440&category=4663)
Paula (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2556758147&category=4663)
8520 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2556758689&category=4663)
If so, then I HIGHLY doubt these are MIL-SPEC parts. It's much more likely they are in a cer-dip package simply because they have high power disipation like the good old VIC in my C64. Why go through all the trouble of designing a part that can operate from -55C to +125C when the part will never be subjected to these extreams?
You have to remember that these chips where designed and built in the early eighties. They had alot of transistors in them for the time.
Too bad locating a datasheet for these components is neigh on impossible. Anybody have the foggiest clue where one might be sourced?
Yes!! YES!!!
:-D
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OK, I took a quick look for the first bidder and he's claiming this: 'RARE Ceramic MOS 8361- Agnus in AMIGA Systems'
After that, I searched the web and find out that MOS 8361R3 is not an Agnus, actually.
http://home.hccnet.nl/g.baltissen/partnum.htm
http://www.softwolves.pp.se/misc/arkiv/cbm-hackers/3/3487.html
There is no description or something else, but Agnus is, according to this two sites, part #8371
Well, that's it, nothing more to say, later,
levelLORD
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No mil-spec ICs here, but I am looking for a girl with a
Kevlar-reinforced bra.
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DonnyEMU wrote:
LOL I have an old Amiga 1000 myself and i am not sure that what you are describing constitutes millitary grade chips, from what I understand from the Amiga launch in NYC, any chips in original A1000s are there because C=MOS didn't make them.
Someone wanted pictures of the *supposed* "mil-spec" chips; well, here's the girls (and Gary? My mind is going)... in our own archive. http://amiga.org/gallery/photo.php?lid=908 (http://amiga.org/gallery/photo.php?lid=908).
Looks like it might say MOS up top, though that doesn't mean much, since foundries seem to have always let the client's brand take precedence. (As you can see in the AGA machines with the HP chips, at some point Commodore decided not to care.)
Please someone tell me if I am wrong. I can tell you this I don't believe these were millitary "grade" chips because I saw a lot of Amiga 1000's with their CIA chips go bad.. Mostly because people did stupid things like plugging things in and out when they shouldn't have.
Y'know.. it's been a long time since I've had to care, but I could swear "MIL-SPEC" is self-audited somehow, or just applies more to paperwork-shuffling than any particular capabilities (after all, the military has to certify practically every nut and bolt, which basically just means they need a degree of documentation on it)... I'm sure there's plenty of "MIL-SPEC" hardware that can still be killed by shorting a connector improperly, though any regulations around the whole program probably try to prevent that.
http://www.dsp.dla.mil/ (http://www.dsp.dla.mil/) seems to be the group responsible for... everything related, though it's not like they have an obvious FAQ for what "MIL-SPEC" (versus any of the thousand other terms, specific certifications, etc) means.
Anyone who's been in the .mil want to hook us up? Is it as BS/general a term as I think it is? ;)
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huronking wrote:
No mil-spec ICs here, but I am looking for a girl with a
Kevlar-reinforced bra.
Just make sure you wont need an industrial strength condom! ;-)
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Floid wrote:
Anyone who's been in the .mil want to hook us up? Is it as BS/general a term as I think it is? ;)
Er, and implied from there, that Moto and Commodore could easily have had it on *any* chips they produced, whatever the packaging, radiation-hardness, whatever? (The military has plenty of regular *offices,* I'm sure there also exist 'MIL-SPEC' pencils and staple removers...)
There are certifications for security, combat-hardness, and so forth, but those are *specific* certifications, with confusing names and numbers of their own. And I'm sure even the stock 'consumer-grade' 680x0s must've met a few of them... Y'know -- and I'm just pulling this out of my butt here -- "DoD Standard 12345678-XY; Requirements for Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor Devices for Unclassified Document Processing Systems" or something. :-D
Then things, 'certified' or not, get standard requisitioning product codes, for classification at auction and such... From probing the .mil auction sites a while back, I know they have them for things like "Bucket, unspecified, plastic," or even "Cow."
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Actually, my '030 CPU and it's FPU have ceramic housings.
And now that I think of it, a #### load of pentiums and 486 have ceramic housing also.
Mil-Spec? bullshit!
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@ Doomaster, get you in that `Kevlar` covered helmet, we know why you want them chips, its start of your big plan aka "I want to Rule the WORLD ! ".
MUGRAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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levelLORD wrote:
OK, I took a quick look for the first bidder and he's claiming this: 'RARE Ceramic MOS 8361- Agnus in AMIGA Systems'
After that, I searched the web and find out that MOS 8361R3 is not an Agnus, actually.
Sheesh. As we should all know, Agnus went through only, what, a billion revisions? A quick Google for "MOS 8361" (not in quotes when I threw it in the engine, should you care to replicate), shows that the 8361 did ship in some 1000s -- it was doubtless one of the original, "thin" iterations.
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My chips are McCain oven variety. Smells good when i multitask.
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Actually, the rarest Amiga ICs of all are really[/i] weird!
Y'see, in the years before Earth-manufactured ICs existed, personel at the US Army's Foreign Technology Division "seeded" various artifacts out to certain US Industrial combines which had high-level clearances.
One type of artifact was a "thin, two-inch-around matte gray oyster cracker-shaped wafers of a material that looked like plastic but had tiny road maps of wires barely raised/etched along the surface. They were the size of a twenty-five cent piece, but the etchings on the surface were suggestive of squashed insects with their hundred legs spread out at right angles from a flat body. Some were more rounded or elliptical. It was a circuit -- anyone could figure that out by 1961, especially when it was placed under a magnifying glass -- but from the way these wafers were stacked on each other, this was circuitry unlike any anyone had ever seen."
In that era, there wasn't any suitable high-complexity circuits to test THESE with!
In the mid-eighties that all changed! High-clearance Personel observed the Lorraine protype at the 1994 Winter CES and saw that here was a design that might be able to do justice to their requirements.
So they approached Commodore and various software & hardware engineers were sworne-in.
From then, up until the last of the Kickstart 1.2 units left assembly, various batches had disguised outsider ICs installed. THESE can be identified if they are prised from their sockets and turned over. An elliptical matte gray oyster is discernable inside the rectangular over-shell.
The US Army had packaged units, which included these cammoflarged ICs, delivered to their labs where 1 unit in 10 underwent evaluation-testing. After being tested, each unit was re-sealed in its Commodore packageing. Test results indicated that these SPECIAL ICs were approximately 15-18 years in advance of ordinary 1985 designs! Documents were issued that THESE Test Amigas were to be locked-away until early in the Twenty-First Century, when the computers in which they were mounted would be obsolete, and unlikely to be held in any regard by members of the public-at-large!
HEY RED! They're NOT here! (http://www.ufomag.co.uk/Beam02.gif) :-D
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&hlI have a couple of these just here (http://amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=370).
and no, I'm not selling them, sorry :-/
There's an 8361 but it's only plastic.
There's some stuff on the different revisions here (http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:h-1Fhym0-2EJ:www.upv.es/amiga/50.htm+8361+NTSC=en&ie=UTF-8).
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I need a good laugh!
I have pulled chips from commercial equipment that has a cermaic case, it is good for heat dissipation.
A fewl facts about military equipment. The chips are never socketed! Apply 1 G of force and you have many chips loose inside the case. The PCBs will have heat guides/strips to cool the system and strengthen the PCB. You can not bend a high rel PCB.
What is the fascination with military chips?
Most military parts are very old (but tried and tested) technology.
Until the next time. :-P
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Hey, Guys. How about keeping it on topic?
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Woah dude this link toook me way too freaking long to find.
Martian Rays (http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-11-25&res=l)
I'd recommend these for you power plugs.
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The pictures you are showing me are frauds. I still own an original A1000 with a 1985 manufacturing date..This isn't millitary spec chips, these pictures you are showing me aren't even what the real chips look like, they are advertising fakery. I have a stack of old Amiga Worlds with that same ad. As a dealer/repair center from 85-92 I saw a lot of these machines.
For further proof: anyone care to count the number of pins on Agnes,Denise, and Paula then count the number of pins on those chips in the AD and get back to me. It sure makes a cool looking ad though.. The plate over the chips in this ad is a simple 79 cent glue on from MOS.. I have seen the innards of plenty A1000s to know what I am looking at. Next someone is gonna tell me the 86 pin cpu bus is actually the ZORRO I expansion connector (which it's not).
You guys are scarey this post is starting to sound like something out of the X-Files. Geese guys..
-Don
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Ceramic housing is the way most chips were made at one time, especially the kind you could by outright as chips. I have an 030/882 like that in storage myself.
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To DonnyEMU:
You are wrong! I happen to have those military grade custom ICs in one of my Amiga 2000HDs. I even have a military grade 68010 processor in all 3 of my Amiga 2000HD computers. In my first Amiga 1000 computer, ALL 3 of the Amiga custom chips, both of the 8520s and the 68000 microprocessor were all military spec. They looked just like what was pictured in those old Amiga ads. :-D
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@"DoomMaster"
They looked just like what was pictured in those old Amiga ads.
You are wrong! Perhaps they do look like the ones in the old Amiga ads, however they are not Mil-Spec. And your definition of Mil-Spec is completly wrong. :-x
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@ DoomMaster,
All I can say is... ;-)
Here...
http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html
Oh, and if you scroll down the page there's a nice pic of Elizabeth Hurley as well ! :-)
I hope I've been of some help ! ;-)
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DoomMaster wrote:
You are wrong! I happen to have those military grade custom ICs in one of my Amiga 2000HDs. I even have a military grade 68010 processor in all 3 of my Amiga 2000HD computers. In my first Amiga 1000 computer, ALL 3 of the Amiga custom chips, both of the 8520s and the 68000 microprocessor were all military spec. They looked just like what was pictured in those old Amiga ads.
Lets be perfectly clear here, there are no mil-spec amiga custom chips. The parts pictured here are ceramic, gold lead parts, but that in no way makes them mil-spec, which would require 883B (or one of its derivatives classification) and the -55C to +125C mil-temp range that is going to be an issue with Amiga Custom chips. Also any mil-spec part is going to say it on the chip, by number, classification or alternate part number, I dont see any of that on the examples being shown here.
-Tig
Or just in this case lets use the day signature to cut down the arguements.
-Bill Evans
Senior Avionics Engineer
Government Division
SCI Technology, Inc
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Tigger wrote:
Lets be perfectly clear here, there are no mil-spec amiga custom chips. The parts pictured here are ceramic, gold lead parts, but that in no way makes them mil-spec, which would require 883B (or one of its derivatives classification) and the -55C to +125C mil-temp range that is going to be an issue with Amiga Custom chips. Also any mil-spec part is going to say it on the chip, by number, classification or alternate part number, I dont see any of that on the examples being shown here.
Exactly.. What Doommaster is saying would mean, that just about every PGA cased Intel processor made before the pentium mmx was military grade.. (the MMX was in a black fiberglass package with the die inside a small metal case on top)
How do I tell? Well they have a purple case with gold legs!
I've even got military grade chips in one of my older C-64s!
Come on, get real. Ceramic packaging was commonly used back in the day. Plastic took over because it's cheaper. It's true that ceramic packaged chips last longer, but that's only because the heat conducts away from the die better.
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Come on, get real. Ceramic packaging was commonly used back in the day. Plastic took over because it's cheaper. It's true that ceramic packaged chips last longer, but that's only because the heat conducts away from the die better.
Just as a note on the ceramic packaging, at least that used on 030, 040 and a few 486s I've seen - it's an Alumina Ceramic, made of tiny crystals of Al2O3 - same stuff as sapphire or ruby, and near diamond's hardness. Doing a google search for "alumina ceramic" should turn up a bunch of links advertising how insanely neat it is for electronics, low thermal expansion, low wear, water resistance, biocompatibility. How cool, implanted 040s...
I want to do my entire bathroom in old 040 tiles. How neat would that be... :)
dana
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I want to do my entire bathroom in old 040 tiles. How neat would that be... :)
At least you bathroom would be bombproof! ;-)
(I just noticed your post count was 19 - That supprised me, since I thought you had posted more than that)
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I've noticed that more people are commenting on the ceramic packaging than the gold.
Chips can theoretically be mil-spec regardles of the packaging. Chips can also be commercial grade(or auto grade) without the packaging. We all know that.
Now, the gold pins being for mil-spec parts really makes me laugh. These days just about every thing in computers has gold pins. They are not all mil-spec.
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DonnyEMU wrote:
The pictures you are showing me are frauds. I still own an original A1000 with a 1985 manufacturing date..This isn't millitary spec chips, these pictures you are showing me aren't even what the real chips look like, they are advertising fakery. I have a stack of old Amiga Worlds with that same ad. As a dealer/repair center from 85-92 I saw a lot of these machines.
For further proof: anyone care to count the number of pins on Agnes,Denise, and Paula then count the number of pins on those chips in the AD and get back to me. It sure makes a cool looking ad though.. The plate over the chips in this ad is a simple 79 cent glue on from MOS.. I have seen the innards of plenty A1000s to know what I am looking at.
http://amiga.org/gallery/images/896/1_1183.jpg (http://amiga.org/gallery/images/896/1_1183.jpg)
Hm, someone must've gone through some trouble, then. 48-pin DIPs in both shots. Unless I can't count. And you can see here that they got the 8361 (that also doesn't exist?) into a regular epoxy package.
The 'heatspreaders' are obviously just cheap caps of some sort - I've found some other pictures where they weren't on straight. But IIRC, with this sort of package, the chip die was otherwise exposed (I dunno why; because they encased the pins in the ceramic before they dropped the chip in and connected the cat-whiskers? -- Were chip packages coming from separate plants than chips themselves? -- Or because the same package would have a use for UV EEPROM, those would need a window there anyway, and it would be cheaper to use caps than design an all-ceramic top with a hollow for the chip? Or because engineers would enjoy the ability to pop the cap and microscope failure modes on returned units without sanding/etching off the epoxy as they do now?)... So the cap keeps you from, say, jabbing the die with your finger, or getting WD-40 all over it when you decide to clean your board. (Or was there epoxy under there, anyway?) Ever dissect one of those old calculators, where the LEDs were exposed dies under a plastic magnifying lens?
One assumes the miracle of 100% plastic/epoxy packaging caught on quickly when it was discovered how much easier it was to just pour goo over everything. (Of course, bad epoxy still strikes. All the Fujitsu drive failures of months back were eventually traced to a bad packaging used by Cirrus Logic, to whom they'd outsourced some chips.)
Now why does everyone need to bullshit over something so simple?
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All the Fujitsu drive failures of months back were eventually traced to a bad packaging used by Cirrus Logic, to whom they'd outsourced some chips.
By the gods, I remember that! :-o
I was working in a technical support department at the time, I must have replaced thousainds of those!!! :-D
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Hey DoomMaster! Would you swap one of your professional Amiga 2000HD for my toy Amiga 1200T (see signature). I would love the chance to own a BIG box Amiga! :-) lol
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To CU_AMiGA:
No, I would never trade an Amiga 2000HD professional computer for an Amiga 1200. I actually think that the Amiga 2000HD is a much nicer computer then the Amiga 1200. :-D
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Ok this thread seems to last.....
Military grade hehe :-)
I bought my A4000 Professional computer in 1993 an since then I killed one Mobo. (cause of a defective card)
I think AMIGA-Hardware is rock solid !
Military chips or not
@whabang
I also changed tons of this damn "Fujitsu" HDD :-)
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@DoomMaster,
Okay fair comment. What are the actual full specs of your Amiga2000HD then?
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@CU_AMiGA,
Off topic, are you in any way related to the magazine? One of my favourites, it was a dark day indeed when it dissapeared.
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@ CU_AMiGA
Would you mind cutting the size of your sig by about 90% please?
Write down the spec of your Amiga and/or PC into a webpage, post that URL in your sig or when necessary instead.
My Amiga spec (http://www.legolas.com/amiga/myamiga.html) ~ My PC spec (http://www.legolas.com/mikes/mypc.txt)
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whabang wrote:
All the Fujitsu drive failures of months back were eventually traced to a bad packaging used by Cirrus Logic, to whom they'd outsourced some chips.
By the gods, I remember that! :-o
I was working in a technical support department at the time, I must have replaced thousainds of those!!! :-D
Ouch. It bit me in a way, too - the companies whose engineering I'm most likely to trust are IBM and Fujitsu. (And Seagate, I suppose, but I was never 100% happy with the 2.1gb Barracudas that I 'overpaid' for right before 4-20gb drives went dirt cheap.) Well, we know what happened to IBM, and then *bam* - Fujitsu, who were still making drives in the 'trustworthy' 20gb-40gb range (while everyone else seemed to be having growing pains pushing the envelope to 60gb+), had that hit. In the drive capacities that I was actually hoping to scrounge off eBay...
Ended up getting a WD 80gb retail, because, y'know, can't trust them, but, *CLICK,* nobody was *CLICK* complaining at the time, and *CLICKCLICK,* the price was right. I can't say *CLICKTHUNK* I was *CLICKCLICKwhirrr* really happy with that *THUNK* decision *THUNK,* though. *THUNK.*
I do think some of that was down to the power supply or drive positioning in the box that ended up in, never did get a chance to transplant it and see.
But anyhow, you can imagine *why* Fujitsu shot the food so badly on their recall; by the time they realized what was up - and perhaps that their stock of replacements had the same faulty chips? - they'd already pissed everyone off for not addressing the issue. Sucks as much for them and their reputation as it does for the consumer.
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@ Floid
Heh. Funny how different peoples' experiences with products can be. I don't trust Western Digital at all, I've seen too many disks of theirs fail prematurely. I don't trust Maxtor that much, though my experiences with their disks are less bad than with WD. I had one of those infamous IBM Deathstar drives, which resulted in my second-worst data loss disaster :-) I now use a Seagate Barracuda IV, which runs literally silent and not over-hot, and back up my data onto CD much more often... 20 CDs in a shoebox so far :-)
It's much like peoples' greatly differing experiences of Windows. Some people find certain versions don't ever play up for them, other people find the direct opposite.
The only advice I give to people thinking about a hard disk purchase is that it's best to buy a lower capacity disk, say half the size of the largest available. The 'latest and greatest' tend to be the most problematic IMO. Also, remember that every disk manufacturer has had their own major PR disaster regarding dodgy batches of disks :-)
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I have a 1G seagate medallist that has functioned flawlessly for 9 years...
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RCS-PC (http://www.bes.co.il/rcspc.jpg) is a rugged PC compatible computer specially designed and qualified for use in harsh environment of Ground mobile, Airborne and Naval military systems.
. . .supports a variety of software Operating Systems (Windows® NT 4.0, Windows® 2000 etc').
RCS computer includes a unique passive back-plane featuring dual purpose slots (PCI and ISA buses) designed for Pentium Single Board Computer (SBC) class cards.
The RCS PC is shock mounted when installed in a vehicle.
Dimensions: 225X200X490 (WXHXL) [ mm]
(http://www.bes.co.il/Milita4.jpg)
AMC-300 Airborne Computer
Airborne mission PC computer running Embedded Windows NT. AMC-300 computer is built and qualified for F-15, F-4, A-4, F-5 Tornado and F-16 "Wing Tips".
AMC-300 PC features 300MHz Pentium CPU, SoundBlaster, Ethernet, MIL-STD-1553, SDLC,
RS-422/RS-232, Discrete signals, GPS/1PPS synchronization and PC104 expansion slots
AMC-800 Airborne Computer (http://www.bes.co.il/rvc.jpg) is a rugged PC compatible computer specially designed for use in airborne applications The computer is powered from aircraft 28VDC. The AMC-800 PC features 800MHz Pentium CPU, SoundBlaster, Ethernet, MIL-STD-1553, VGA, USB, RS-422/RS-232 ports, Discrete signals, GPS/1PPS synchronization and a Flash Cassette for mission loading and debriefing.
Main Unit 127x160x262mm (WXHXL)
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AMC-300 Airborne Computer
That computer couldn't fly, it hasn't got wings or anything!
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When all is lost and you run out of ammo, you could always throw it at your enemy.
Or drop it from an aircraft (if airbourne).
It looks solid and heavy enough to make a potent kinetic weapon :-)
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artifically-intelligent slugs for a railgun. Hmm, perhaps not a bad idea.
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I know these aren't the right chips anyway, because I knew of the ad agency that produced them too..
Commodore obviously dummied up some chips to look much better than they were..
After all you want to be buying "gold" right? It really gives you an idea you are buying more than you really are.
-Don
PS
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To DonnyEMU:
You do NOT know what you are talking about when it comes to these chips. :-o
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Okay you forced me into it.. I will get the info from the ad agency and email you with it..
-Don
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I do wonder whose alter-ego DoomMeister is. He _is_ good at getting under ppl's skins :-).
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DoomMaster wrote:
To DonnyEMU:
You do NOT know what you are talking about when it comes to these chips. :-o
@"DoomMaster"
I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm making fun of you(I'm told that somebody around here doesn't want to be picked on) however, when most people here disagree with you, you tell them they are wrong and that you are correct.
If you really know so much about these chips, it would be nice if you could back up all of your claims. Please provide us with a URL for some(or just one) webpage(s) to back up your view.
I believe you are wrong about this whole mil-spec issue. Have you seen the page I pointed you to earlier?
That backs up what I have believed about mil-spec components for years.
I knew a guy who learned about computers from his electronics course in the navy. When it came to electronics, he was good - bloody good.
And we both agreed about the meanings of different spec.'s.
Please provide us with backup to what you are saying.
A title of a book, an ISBN, a web address, a lengthy description ... anything.
Just telling us that you know more than us doesn't prove anything.
I'm not trying to pick on you "DoomMaster", I'm just trying to get the facts straight.
:-)
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DoomMaster wrote:
You do NOT know what you are talking about when it comes to these chips.
Until you provide some solid proof (i.e. a datasheet with environmental limits, statements from MOS employees or Amiga designers), you are on shakey ground. Financial logic is against you. Designing the Amiga custom chips to MIL-SPEC would have been VERY expensive and totally unnecessary.
The Amiga custom chips ran at a high clock speed for the time. Transistors then were not as efficient as modern transistors. Everytime a transitor changes state, it disipates power as heat. Combine high power disipation at every switch with lots of transistors switching millions of times per second and you get a lot of heat. The only safe way to disipate that heat is through a ceramic package. Why wasn't the 68000 ceramic? Motorola had a MUCH better process than MOS. Money can do that. Simple as that.
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I highly doubt there were any military grade custom amiga chips ever made. Perhaps some of the "glue logic" ICs on the original A1000 might have been such parts, but considering the cost difference...?
My understanding of military grade is the chips have simply undergone more rigourous testing before packaging, nothing more. Basically, they're certified by the manufacture to withstand a bit more abuse than consumer parts.
Standard military grade ICs can be identified by a "54" number instead of "74". In other words, it's written on the label rather than a type of packaging or pins or whatever.
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@mikeymike, @karlos,
mikeymike wrote:
@ Floid
The only advice I give to people thinking about a hard disk purchase is that it's best to buy a lower capacity disk, say half the size of the largest available. The 'latest and greatest' tend to be the most problematic IMO. Also, remember that every disk manufacturer has had their own major PR disaster regarding dodgy batches of disks :-)
Heh, I'd never suggest that WD had a stunning track record. I just happened to fall for the idea that, maybe, finally, they might've sorted some of it out. ;) Point being that Fujitsu's problem was counter to that rule of thumb - they're in the business of making reliable, conservative drives for reliable, conservative sorts of people, and unfortunately, their defective units were right in that 20-40GB 'safe zone' behind other manufacturers' problematic 60+GB drives.
Don't think we need another drive 'war,' or at least, I already hashed that out in another thread. Seagates are great if you know what model you're getting, I've just landed some of their more boring/silly designs. (The 351A/X, staid 40MB? IDE of times past; one ridiculously fast HH - not the normal 'slim' height we expect from 3.5" floppies and modern drives - 540MB in that era, and the 2.1GB 'cudas, which were warm-running early 7200RPM units, and had unimpressive transfer rates versus the suddenly-quarter-of-the-price larger drives with higher density platters. Now that this Interweb thing is here, I look up the spec sheets before I buy.)
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Standard military grade ICs can be identified by a "54" number instead of "74". In other words, it's written on the label rather than a type of packaging or pins or whatever.
Erm ... that only applies to 74' series logic chips. :-)
All other IC families have different numbering systems. :-)
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Hi
I have a 68010 a 14 Mhz and 8 Mhz one too, military grade IC just laying here.
It has come from a LaserDisc arcade board by philips, and at his time, this 68010 series came from the 68010 made especially by motorola for philips, for a secret philips proyect, later dropped.
It has a philips signature underside, I think, I can´t remember by now :)
How much?
Have Fun infected incubes!
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Didnt phillips (badly) clone the 68000 core, add some UARTs and stuff and then call it a 68070?
I bet that number excited a few people when they first heard it :lol:
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Not exactly.
The 68k core was half-licenced by motorola in order to make a derivated for internal desings only.
I think it were used for a few comercial electronics (CD-I was one IIRC)
Have Fun
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I'm just thinking.... Even if there ARE military grade chips to put in your Amiga, what good would they be if the MoBo isn't military grade?
Wouldn't that be like putting a tank engine in your SUV and say "now this baby's military grade, man..." ;-)
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Only that the ICs, are supossed, to be highest quality, but no more.
If a mobbo resistor go melt, you can make a picasso picture for your room with the the military grade ICs :) They are useless.
The "normal" amiga custom chips are well made enough to make the job, IMO
Best Regards
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With all those "military IC's" it sounds as if someone is trying to build his own Patriot missile system :destroy: .
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Is it just me, or is everyone thinking "DIE THREAD DIE!" ?
@ adz
Please reduce the size of your sig by 90%.
Chuck the specs of your machines into text/html page/s and upload them to a website, then URL them either when necessary of in your sig.
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by carls on 2003/9/14 14:03:22
I'm just thinking.... Even if there ARE military grade chips to put in your Amiga, what good would they be if the MoBo isn't military grade?
Wouldn't that be like putting a tank engine in your SUV and say "now this baby's military grade, man..."
I think that DoomMaster aka Amiga2000King on AW HERE (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1256&forum=2) likes play with us.
At the beginning, i was annoyed by his "clone replyes" but . . . . now i can live with it.
Ciao
PS- even if he say, sometimes, right things.
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mikeymike wrote:
Is it just me, or is everyone thinking "DIE THREAD DIE!" ?
Well, you do have that perogative :-)
What's the deal with large signatures? Is it a technical problem or ... ?
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None of my Amiga`s have military grade components, but my PSU is an old Russian nuclear reactor. Does the job quite well. It still struggles to keep up with my upgrading :-D
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@ Karlos
What's the deal with large signatures?
I really doubt 90% of the people reading the thread are interested in every single computer or every little point in the spec of a person's machine :-) Nor am I interested in encouraging anything that could be construed as penis measurement.
--
Mikeymike. Glamis, Cawdor, sysadmin, moderator, Windows Jedi Master ;-)
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Actually, he's not completely talking out of his backside... The chip description in question is a US military chip manufacturing standard. While the chips themselves may not be "mil spec," they follow a standard... A common practice for manufacurers in general.
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Karlos wrote:
@CU_AMiGA,
Off topic, are you in any way related to the magazine? One of my favourites, it was a dark day indeed when it dissapeared.
Sorry! I just wanted to know Doomies machine spec and what he uses it for. Thats all. And no i am not related to CU Amiga, lol apart from being a loyal reader! :-P What a shame it went. :-(
mikeymike wrote:
@ CU_AMiGA
Would you mind cutting the size of your sig by about 90% please?
Write down the spec of your Amiga and/or PC into a webpage, post that URL in your sig or when necessary instead.
My Amiga spec (http://www.legolas.com/amiga/myamiga.html) ~ My PC spec (http://www.legolas.com/mikes/mypc.txt)
Sorry! (again). I have now shrunk the sig by about 5 or 6 lines (not sure about 90% though).
Would it be possible to get these "military" grade chips for my A1200?
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@Nick
LOL.nick you made my day.. it's a foggy California monday morning... and Flash ... yours is the first post I read ...stubbling about in the dark...... :lol:
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@Huronking
why would you want that??? a girl could be frustrated trying to burn it.....
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@DoomMaster
What is the spec of your suppa duppa A2000HD professional computer? And what do you use it for?
PS: Did you get my "Fan" mail - titled A1200 Concern!
You do NOT know what you are talking about when it comes to Amiga 1200's! :lol:
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@Ritty
Stubbling? Is that like stumbling with a cold? :-) Whats so funny about having a nuclear reactor for a PSU? Perfectly normal to use old stuff for different purposes, where I come from. I`ve got an AK-47 in the kitchen. They make very good tin openers :-)
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Military_Ships, although this is really a Military Boat!
(http://www.fdda.com/images/Military_Ships.jpg)
Now, if a crewmember were to take an A600HD onboard in his kitbag then . . . .
there would be an Amiga onboard this Military (grade) Ship (or boat)!
And, if that crewmember had obtained a bag of Potato Chips from his PX, and taken that bag onboard then . . . .
he could be eating Military (grade) Chips while operating his A600HD in his cabin onboard this Military (grade) boat! If he had taken a whole swag of Potato Chips onboard because the rest of the crew had "chipped-in" then . . . .
all the crew could be eating Military (grade) Potato Chips (from the PX) that all had "chipped-in" for, on this Military (grade) boat (or ship) so . . . .
then THAT Military (grade) boat would be a ship with Military (grade) Potato Chips . . . .
If they were transporting an Army Road Grader to some zone . . . .
then THAT Military (grade) boat would be a ship with Military (grade) Potato Chips and a Military Grader . . . .
And, if that Grader had a lot of wear on its blade with metal-chips missing . . .
THEN, there would be metal-chips missing from that Military Grader which was being carried by a Military (grade) boat (or ship), with an Amiga in one cabin, along with a lot of Military (grade) Potato Chips (from the PX) which were in such a large quantity because all had "chipped-in"! :-)
(NOTE - IF anyone says: "Dude, THAT'S a BOAT, not a ship then see below)
(http://www.janandbillhaueisen.com/images/Military_Ships_in_Norfolk.jpg)
It could[/i] have happened in Norfolk instead!
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Hmmm... I thought this thread was locked?
Anyways, I don't care for "DoomMasters" system specs.
What I want to know is why he claims he was working on "Workbench 4.0", and why he thinks it will work in some old accelerator card in his A2000.
AOS4.0 is ment to require PPC CPU's. AFAIK PPC CPU's were never available on the A2000.
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Hmmm... I thought this thread was locked?
AFAIK it hasn't.
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and 100!
Now where's that padlock thingy :-P.
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odin wrote:
and 100!
Now where's that padlock thingy :-P.
Come on, we don't need that again. :-(
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Military grade chips, I can believe this.. I know NASA used countless Amiga based machines, (information is dotted around the net, I also remember an old Amiga CU mag stating this)
2 of witch are ending out into space...
1 being the early Mars explorer, (cheap to build and reliable too).. not forgetting the 100`s of satillites orbiting us everyday...I would be interested in knowing the chip IC-MC51XXXXX number..
thanx mate
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@gomtuu
You're right, I remember all the hipe at school that NASA used Amigas when I got my A500, all those years ago.
lol.
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gomtuu wrote:
Military grade chips, I can believe this.. I know NASA used countless Amiga based machines, (information is dotted around the net, I also remember an old Amiga CU mag stating this)
2 of witch are ending out into space...
1 being the early Mars explorer, (cheap to build and reliable too).. not forgetting the 100`s of satillites orbiting us everyday...I would be interested in knowing the chip IC-MC51XXXXX number..
There are no amigas in space, nor have their ever been. We did one to Zero-G on the Vomit Comet (a 2000 thats in my closet and a Toaster & Flyer) thats also the first NLE to do Zero G. NASA did use a bunch of Amigas, at one point we probably had close to 100 here at Marshall alone, but there arent used that much anymore, over the years most have been replaced.
-Tig
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DoomMaster wrote:
I have already found many sources, including eBay, that sell brand new Sony and Memorex DD / DS disks. I bought 100 new DD / DS Sony disks from eBay for less then $25.00. I will be paying about $260.00 for 2 new Amtrade HD Disk Drives soon. They will go into my 3rd and most powerful Amiga 2000HD. Since I helped design Workbench 4.0, I have created a special version just for my 3rd Amiga 2000HD computer. I now have 3 Amiga 2000HD computers. The first one has Kickstart / Workbench 1.3. The second one has Kickstart / Workbench 2.04 and the third one has Kickstart 3.1 / Workbench 3.9, but the OS will be upgraded to 4.0 (yes, OS 4.0 on an Amiga 2000HD Professional Computer).
How do you work that out then? I cant believe that someone with a "status" at your level can make such a stupid comment. What utter garbage. How would Amiga OS 4 run on a paltry 030 and why would they bother making it for a machine that has a smaller user base that the 4000, 3000 and 1200.
I am getting tired of the crap that comes out your mouth DoomMaster, very tired.
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Whatever you say about DoomMaster he does seem very knowledgeable about Amiga hardware and operating systems. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he did have a specially programmed version of OS4.0 for his Amiga 2000HD Professional Computer.
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Lando wrote:
Whatever you say about DoomMaster he does seem very knowledgeable about Amiga hardware and operating systems. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he did have a specially programmed version of OS4.0 for his Amiga 2000HD Professional Computer.
I think that DoomMaster (DoomAmateur) is talking a big pile of crap. I dont think he was working for Commodore or any other big company he said. I infact think that he is only a technican that fixes computers. I am saying this cos he gets his facts wrong (the static bags, PSU, the military grade chips, etc). The information that he posts are probably from websites (like the dream machine thread).
He might own an Amiga 2000 but i dont think he is an expert (like me). Also if he did have a "hand" in designing Amiga OS 4 then he would be banting to all the other developers "YOU ARE WRONG!" when something isn't up to his high standards. Also he would make OS 4 only for the flagship of Amigas, the 2000 (of course!). I think what he means when he says he's programmed a "special" version of OS 4 on his beloved Amiga 2000, is that he has just played around with the colour settings on Workbench 1.3/2! :-D
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I thought he had written that Dream Machine thread, and it was a nice article. I didn't know he had just cut'n'pasted it from a website :-o
I take back what I said (it was kinda tongue-in-cheek anyway). :-(
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Lando wrote:
I thought he had written that Dream Machine thread, and it was a nice article. I didn't know he had just cut'n'pasted it from a website :-o
I take back what I said (it was kinda tongue-in-cheek anyway). :-(
I think other people thought that he wrote it as well. But i recognised the text from a website, and sure enough, someone else did to and found the site. Has DoomMaster been banned?
Also, i sounded a bit big headed in the previous post. Sorry. I was meant to say that i was NO expert at Amigas.
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DoomMaster wrote:
The military grade ICs have purple-pink ceramic bodies and gold-platted legs.
But pink is NOT anti-static!
Edit: Sorry I didn't think I'd sink that low :-D
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@DoomMaster
I haven`t got any military spec DRAMs, but I`ve got a couple of AMRAAMs. I`ll sell them for a small amount of cash. £200,000 each? :-)
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For the good of humanity I'm locking this thread.