Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: weirdami on February 28, 2009, 02:55:32 AM
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I just wanted to say that every dealing that I've ever had with redrumloa was top notch. He is always honest and fair and forthright. I just wish I had more money to spare so I could buy some more of the awesome things he comes across that nobody else is able to at all. Loads of things would still just be rotting away wherever it was they'd been stored for 15 years if it wasn't for the super sleuthing skills of redrum, the Amiga NOS king.
:bow:
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Agreed, and "aolmurder" seems to answer questions very quickly and honestly too.
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It's too bad that other thread ran him away from this site. I have always thought highly of him too. His posts will be missed.
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@ Jeff
What thread ran him away? He's one of the few reasons I still get on here???
Sometimes, I wish Red was Amiga Inc's CEO. At least then we'd know we'd actually have some hardware......
Before everyone starts flaming me, I know we have "hardware", but it would be nice to have something we could all actually "afford".
-M (who is quite spotted right now! =D)
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he sold me a broken Blizzard PPC card on EBAY ( advertised as broken ) card is now working.
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Jim is a gentleman. He has provided that to me so so many times...
Every time i bid on an item he has for sale, i can sleep naked, knowing nothing bad will come out of sudden
Also, many many times, he gave me aftersale fantastic support.
always willing to help, always nice...this guy is one of my ideals of what the "true Amigan spirit" is
Its a pity about other thread (didnt have a clue about that, where can i find that thread please?), but i second the idea: We would need somebody like Jim to be in charge of Amiga Inc!!
Also, the treasures he finds, real hard to find items for true Amiga lovers...i cant remember, more adrenaline every single time i see the listings he has on ebay
Ok, sometimes items seem to be that i wont be able to afford, but i know for sure they will end up in very good hands and not in somebody´s trashcan
Jim, if you read this, you have my 100% support man!
You rock!!!
Sincerely
Sebastian
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I'm not sure that he will be back this time. Perhaps someone should collect some of the more positive comments and send them to him? I can't believe how fast that other thread escalated and how far it went. In the end, what was gained from it? Several "apologies now lets forget about it" might have gone a long way. How many long time users can we afford to run out of what is left of our tiny community?
I sat back and watched the whole thing is disbelief wondering if I should still be here too:roll:
Just my opinion.
-Jeff
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Jeff wrote:
I'm not sure that he will be back this time. Perhaps someone should collect some of the more positive comments and send them to him? I can't believe how fast that other thread escalated and how far it went. In the end, what was gained from it? Several "apologies now lets forget about it" might have gone a long way. How many long time users can we afford to run out of what is left of our tiny community?
I sat back and watched the whole thing is disbelief wondering if I should still be here too:roll:
Just my opinion.
-Jeff
Jeff,
I couldn't have said it better!
Bob
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He's lurking, I'm sure. Like the rest of us, he'll be sitting at home one day remembering the first time he saw the juggler or the first NewTek demo or any number of things, and the nostalgia will kick in, and he'll do everything in his power to get that feeling back.
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I don't think he is;
Username redrumloa
Join Date 2002/2/15
Last Login 2009/1/2 6:03
Number of posts 9003
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You don't have to log in to lurk. And hopefully he knows he still has friends here.
Plaz
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I still hear from him from time to time through normal Email. He really got disgusted over what was said about him in that thread. He has asked me if I was interested in buying his amiga business if that shows you how serious he is. He has also talked of starting his own site with much tighter control of the membership. If people remember the thread that started all the trouble I tried to calm things down and was quickly called a "Fanboy". There were 3 people leading the charge against ReDrum and they know who they are. One of them is still on here all the time acting like a normal member but the people who read the thread know what we have to thank him and his two buddies for. Dan
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Ahem... yeah, yeah, yeah.
@ Jeff & beller:
In that thread, I did try to apologise, admitted things got out of hand and offered to put the past behind and move forward. Jim and I shared a PM even, with some humour thrown in where I thought we would have been able to move forward, but nope.
Hindsight and the past sure are funny things. Yes, I feel like {bleep} about Red "calling it quits" - but he's responsible for his own actions. Things did not have to end the way they did and this certainly doesn't need to turn into a pity party for anyone.
I've moved forward. Made good on a lot of my promises to buy/share/sell and have spent hundreds with others on Amiga goods here and on Amibay as of late. The community is still alive and kickin'. Lots of excellent help, deals and discussion. Please try to maintain perspective here folks.
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This might not be popular with some of you, but redrumula was in the wrong in that thread. I'm not saying everyone else was right, but he jumped into a thread and behaved like a troll. He then tried to use his position in the community to claim that no one had the right to call him on his bad behavior and when the newer members wouldn't back down, he took his ball and went home.
No doubt he brought many good things to the community. But if he is going to run off or mistreat new members, then the question has to be asked if it is worth it. Unfortunately, begging him to come back is likely to enhance his attitude that his misbehavior is OK.
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Belial6 wrote:
This might not be popular with some of you, but redrumula was in the wrong in that thread. I'm not saying everyone else was right, but he jumped into a thread and behaved like a troll. He then tried to use his position in the community to claim that no one had the right to call him on his bad behavior and when the newer members wouldn't back down, he took his ball and went home.
No doubt he brought many good things to the community. But if he is going to run off or mistreat new members, then the question has to be asked if it is worth it. Unfortunately, begging him to come back is likely to enhance his attitude that his misbehavior is OK.
Well thanks to you we don't have Red to supply us with quality vintage hardware... thank you soooo much... you can go to bed with a nice smug smile, safe in the knowledge that you've pissed on everyone's parade...
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What thread????? Seriously, Jim is simply a great Amiga guy to deal with and certainly not a troll. A lot of people are going to be upset if some idiots have driven him back again to 8-bit land. Jim if you are reading this, please don't shut down the shop. You should sign up on EAB or one of the other sites.
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Argus wrote:
Jim if you are reading this, please don't shut down the shop. You should sign up on EAB or one of the other sites.
I just read that entire thread. Frak that. He should just come back here. He, as well as myself and a lot of others on here, were here before the "Great Crash" when Amiga.org got a new server software. I've known him on here for 10 years now.
I've never had a problem with Jim and quite frankly, I'm irritated at how some of the people acted about it, including him. Yes, his comment could have been "out of line" to some, but it just got out of hand. It really was like a bunch of children in the playground.
You want to talk about exorbitant pricing?!?? How about the ridiculous pricing of AmigaOnes, or the Micro-A1 or even the SAM440? So, it's okay if a commercial business jacks up prices to "make ends meat" on sometimes "dated" hardware, but if a single individual does it, you shred him to pieces? :roll:
Eyetech could have dropped the price of the A-One board to 500$, even as buggy as it was and probably sold *TWICE* what they did. Fact of the matter is, people couldn't afford it and many, after dealing with all the problems, didn't want to. There's no way to make a living as a business in the Amiga Market. For too long, it's been mired by negligent management, high prices and ignorant decisions.
Spend 700$ for a sub-par "embedded market" board, just so I could run AmigaOS4.1? No thank you. Hell, even the Efika had a better price point. With an Efika and MorphOS2.0, it's still less than a SAM. Sure it only had 128MB of ram, but it was *CHEAP*.
Microsoft was selling the X-Box at a loss. They made up for it, eventually. Had Eyetech and even A-Cube sold the boards, at a loss, for the purpose of boosting the market, guess what?? They would have made money, eventually.
But, they didn't see it that way. What they saw was people who wanted new hardware, but didn't want to pay their prices for it, as it's a hobby machine. I don't have the luxury of spending 700$ on a hobby machine. I can use that money for a much better purpose, such as investments. All these companies want an immediate return and that's not how it works in this community.
Why do you think so many "Amigans" hate and despise Amiga, Inc. so much? They're criminals and horrible businessmen. They bought the Amiga, for name only, which was a mistake and in doing so, they ostracized the community. We told them what we wanted, just like we did with Eyetech and Hyperion, but what did they do? They went the opposite direction.
And failed....miserably. ;-)
Most of us groaned when we saw the specs for the AmigaOne. It wasn't what we wanted, nor what we asked for. They were concerned about "piracy" of the AmigaOS (but I won't even get started on the coupon voucher scam....), but that's 'cos we all wanted X86, not PPC and they couldn't protect their "intellectual property" on that platform, nor did they want to support all the hardware. Then again, how many of you are running OS4 or higher on your Classics, but you can't use a lot of your hardware, 'cos the developers never bothered to write code to support your Fastlane, or DKB3128 or whatever?
Jim did a lot to provide limited hardware, that was no longer being produced, to the community. He wants to charge high prices for it, that's his decision, but never once did I ever hear anyone complain about his products, nor his services. In fact, I've seen him more often than not, helping other people on the forums with problems they're having with their Amigas, PCs or Macs, if he had knowledge that would have helped them out.
So, thank you for ignoring the concepts of ROE, egging on a fight that didn't need to be and causing a valued member of the community to walk away from us. Thank God, we have people here, like you. :roll:
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Its been a while since I've posted on here after lurking for a while, but the other thread has just really wound me up (again).
I'm sorry save2600, your comments and actions showed you were nothing but a sh*t, Red was hounded off the board because of one comment, hell I counted many of yours on that thread that I could have objected to.
Your actions, far from showing solidarity with the community, have further served to cause it dwindle even further. We have now lost one of the great sources of Amiga kit from the market place as well as a great guy (I'm not biased here I've never bought anything from Red).
So in the short period of time I've been on this board we've seen lots of the great posters leave (X-Ray, Kenny, etc. and now Red), yes some have returned but most haven't. You have to take responsibility for the consequences of your actions and accept that Red probably wont return.
Personally I believe the thing that should have happened was the thread should have been blocked from the start - it was clear where it was going.
Sorry for the longish post, but I really feel that saying that you had had a series of IMs with Red trying to patch it up, is pointless - if you'd really wanted to be magnanimous then the place to apologise was where you'd started the argument - on the thread, at least everyone else would then have seen you actually meant it.
How can we hope to have a community when we turn on each other like this? :-?
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To be quite honest I'm fed up with some of the d***heads that pass through here. Red is not the only genuinely decent member we've lost to them.
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People, people! Lets not make this thread into anything like the other one please!
Red made his decision, good or bad he made it and kudos to him for abiding by it. Let's just let sleeping dogs lie and move forward for the community as a whole.
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Hi,
OK, which one of you dumb fraks ran off red, just purchased some items off of him and it all worked great.
Remember people, Amiga hardware is getting harder to find, and red is priced cheaper than some other Amiga hardware dealers that I looked at.
Purchased a lot of stuff off of red during the last 10 years and never had any problem with any of it. Shoot, red is one of the most decent guys I know, he is from Florida just like I was and most of the time is a true southren gentleman (OK sometimes he can turn into a redneck, but that is red). What post did you guys tork him off on. I want to find out who the culprits, where because smerf says
FLAME ON
smerf
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Red is a good guy. Luckily he has been hanging out in the same IRC channel I do so I get to talk to him all the time. :)
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Well, to balance it off a little...
IMO Red acted like a jerk in that thread, did not handle the obvious response he got, and finally departed Cartman style, too proud to just suck it up.
"Screw you guys, I'm going home!" :lol:
@Smerf
Search for "too cheap" in forums, topic involves a 2060 card :-)
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@Belial6
Right or wrong the thread went too far. Red was even accused of shilling user account for a profit and had his access at one site cutoff "guilty until proven innocent".
Some think Red mis-spoke, don't we all once in a while?
Still you throw out suggestions that he's "mistreating new members" and "his misbehavior is OK". Frankly I don't agree with those assesments and it all sounds like a FUD campain that needs to stop.
Plaz
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Plaz wrote:
@Belial6
Right or wrong the thread went too far. Red was even accused of shilling user account for a profit and had his access at one site cutoff "guilty until proven innocent".
Some think Red mis-spoke, don't we all once in a while?
Still you throw out suggestions that he's "mistreating new members" and "his misbehavior is OK". Frankly I don't agree with those assesments and it all sounds like a FUD campain that needs to stop.
Plaz
I couldn't agree more. It became a witch hunt the minute Jim opened his mouth.
Er, well typed what was coming out of his mouth.
Even when he had all but abandoned the thread, they just kept going.
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bloodline wrote:
@Belial6
Well thanks to you we don't have Red to supply us with quality vintage hardware... thank you soooo much... you can go to bed with a nice smug smile, safe in the knowledge that you've pissed on everyone's parade...
As I understand it Red is a grown man. There is no one except himself keeping him from this website.
And his online store is still open, alive and well:
http://stores.ebay.com/Reds-Retro-Computing
People are going to disagree with one another. Thats life. Get a helmet and get over it! I did not see a single person in that other thread say they wanted him to leave.
Going off and blaming others for what a grown man decided to do on his own is just bull crap.
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Belial6 wrote:
This might not be popular with some of you, but redrumula was in the wrong in that thread. I'm not saying everyone else was right, but he jumped into a thread and behaved like a troll. He then tried to use his position in the community to claim that no one had the right to call him on his bad behavior and when the newer members wouldn't back down, he took his ball and went home.
No doubt he brought many good things to the community. But if he is going to run off or mistreat new members, then the question has to be asked if it is worth it. Unfortunately, begging him to come back is likely to enhance his attitude that his misbehavior is OK.
I agree 100 percent with this.
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What Red decides to do is his own business and I blame no one for that. I take issue with incendiary comments.
"If ffastback is going to mistreat new members, then is it worth it for him/her to be be part of the community?"
I imply you're doing some thing wrong while I can totally deny implying you're doing some thing wrong. Some make an art form of this type of conversation. Others more sensitive than you and I take offense. Those more callus then say "get over it", clearly knowing it's an annoyance to the more sensitive. These types claim to be more adult and sophisticated while in reality they're just praticing a more advanced form of pettiness.
Plaz
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LOL,
As somebody who has bought and sold Amiga gear I can tell you, it's hard.
Amiga users are wired bunch, lot's of questions and misinformation floating around.... crazy people with crazy requests.
I can understand why folk simply give it up.... I have for the most part, I don't like the morons.
I think the fact that red was a moderator on here odd. The balance of power was off. The thread is downright stupid, but I think Red should have taken the high road.
More moderation would make amiga.org lame and more fan boy like.
I also won't cry for Red since his store is still kicking and his high prices keep the value of my remaining inventory high also. More power to him...
Hi Red I know you can't leave the drama behind you for too long.
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Plaz wrote:
I imply you're doing some thing wrong while I can totally deny implying you're doing some thing wrong. Some make an art form of this type of conversation. Others more sensitive than you and I take offense. Those more callus then say "get over it", clearly knowing it's an annoyance to the more sensitive. These types claim to be more adult and sophisticated while in reality they're just praticing a more advanced form of pettiness.
The point is that no one told Red to leave, no one asked him to leave. Plenty of folks defended him. Some others who offended him (whether he should have been or not) apologized. If Red is the "more sensitive" type I hardly got that impression from his posts. Everyone can talk about this until they are blue in the face. But Red can come back whenever he wants. And no one is sitting here waiting to make it hard on him if he does from what I can tell. And its pretty clear that even if that was the case he'd have plenty of defenders, not that he seemed to need any. He in fact seemed perfectly capable of speaking his mind bluntly in the first place.
He's also still in business, and the point of this thread was someone praising his business. God bless.
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Wow and I thought all Amigians played nice. Seems that whole mess was pretty uncalled for all around. And I'm a completely unbiased opinion. All people were eventually in the wrong. From all my life experiences when things escalate to that level its best to just walk away. Because you should let someone you don't even know have that kind of power over you. There's all sorts of people that will spend hours trying to make you feel bad about something. They have no power if you don't listen.
Claw
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The point is that no one told Red to leave, no one asked him to leave.
Yes, that's your point, not mine. I'm making a completly different one that you're missing or choosing to ignore. Instead of addressing my point, you're still stuck on Red bashing.
Plaz
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Wow and I thought all Amigians played nice.
I think we all make our best efforts, but this is earth populated by the same 'ol flawed human bunch isn't it? :-)
Plaz
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I remember speaking to Red, on IRC, and him suggesting he was thinking of quitting his Amiga business. This was a long time before the infamous thread which people are blaming.
At the end of the day, Red made his own decision and people here who are trying to "outcast" certain members of this board for giving their opinion to Red are exhibiting a "clique" mentality. Which, imo, is just as bad.
Now let sleeping dogs, well, sleep.
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He has also talked of starting his own site with much tighter control of the membership.
Yeh, I heard about this also. TBH, that sounds like a horrible site and I would not want to be a part of it. The jest of it would be: "This site is tightly controlled by Red and anything said, or anyone he dislikes will not be a part of it".
No thank you.
Rightly or wrongly, what was said in that thread was an expression of people's opinions. I value the right to that expression more than trying not to upset a single individual. Which is why I prefer to stay here, at amiga.org...even if that means maybe someone saying something I do not like.
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Jim/Red is a true gentleman...
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Yup, he does.
:bow:
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it seems im missing something here
who has p*** him off?
why?
what is the reason behind all this?
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I think Red will be back, just like the 1st time he left. Can't remember why that was anymore:)... But this one just seems not worth it to leave, I think he's just pissed and will realize it just doesn't make sense to leave because of this.
Hell, who doesn't want to make a couple of bucks on eBay, specially these days. If the seller didn't do it it was his decision, it's not like eBay is a big scret nowdays...
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What a load of bollocks.
IMO He inflated hardware prices by charging other users more to fulfil his "mark-up". To make money from others. How can you ever say something is "too cheap"
Read this for instance. Here is the link because everyone else wont post it for some strange reason...
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39684
BTW: It`s nothing personal!! I`ve never bought anything off Red, but I firmly believe it is wrong to buy cheap and sell high when amongst people you like. It`s like {bleep}ting in your own nest.
Plus he did behave like a {bleep} in the aformentioned thread.
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@Tension
I disagree with your contention that Red intentionally priced his products higher to individuals he thought to be friends or as you say it "amongst people you like."(ie A.Org folks). I ask you, have you or anybody here been forced to do business with Red? I think the answer most likely will be no, so who paid these higher prices? Only a buyer can be blamed for buying, not the seller. :roll:
As for Red's comments in the aforementioned thread that you referenced, IMO Red in no way behaved out of line given the comments that were made to him and about him. Red's comments were made in total self defense.
It's nothing personal Tension, but you need to clean your own nest.
The Dawg
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Tension wrote:
I firmly believe it is wrong to buy cheap and sell high when amongst people you like. It`s like {bleep}ting in your own nest.
I rarely post, but want to here.
I'm sorry, but what you write above is an absolute load of manure, seriously - if you're running a business, you're doing it to make a living, why in the name of whoever you believe is holy would you not sell for the maximum or market price!?!?!?!?
I have no idea who redrumloa is, I can gather he runs a business selling C= and Amiga related goods that he sources. I don't think he's a hobbyist selling the odd hard drive...
Because he likes his customers he should sell at an incredibly cheap price and hamstring himself?
I might enjoy selling televisions for example and like the customers who come into my store, should I then sell for cost + $20 when the retail price is cost + $200?
How about you take a pay cut because you like your boss?
This is a bit of a rant but meh, some crap really pisses me off.
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Firedawg wrote:
@Tension
I disagree with your contention that Red intentionally priced his products higher to individuals he thought to be friends or as you say it "amongst people you like."(ie A.Org folks). I ask you, have you or anybody here been forced to do business with Red? I think the answer most likely will be no, so who paid these higher prices? Only a buyer can be blamed for buying, not the seller. :roll:
As for Red's comments in the aforementioned thread that you referenced, IMO Red in no way behaved out of line given the comments that were made to him and about him. Red's comments were made in total self defense.
It's nothing personal Tension, but you need to clean your own nest.
The Dawg
I don't know how I missed all this CRAP until now, but I just finished reading all of both threads and it almost made me sick, but considering the members who posted and their past postings, it doesn't really surprise me.
I have to agree with you 100% Dawg!
I am no fan of Red, nor have I ever bought anything from him that I can remember. If I did, it must have gone smoothly, or I would have remembered any problem. Considering years of past postings from all the involved parties, it is not difficult for me to believe that Red made his initial comment as a "knee jerk reaction" to what he thought about the price, without any further devious intention. I can't be so kind to dozens of other messages in that thread.
Very sad. Makes a person think twice about continuing to visit here. I wish a different moderator had stepped in and stopped it at the very first character attack.
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Yep Red is the man! I hope he well eventually return to this site.
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@all
Right guys and gals methinks its time to move on and close this thread. Who'll second this motion.
:-)
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The Amiga scene is like a very slow train wreck.
Fascinating, in a morbid way.
:-P
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Hold on a second.
We`re all grownups here. There`s no reason to feel sick just because you read a thread on A.org. Redrumloa was not asked to leave A.org, quite the opposite actually from what i`ve read!! If he chooses not to post here any more then that is his decision, and his only. It`s the same for everyone else here as well.
My point was that I personally think it`s wrong to inflate hardware prices by reselling / re-auctioning hardware whilst using A.org as a shop front.
Surely its better if things sell for cheaper?!?!?
I cant emphasise enough that it`s nothing personal. I`m sure he is a nice guy.
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Tension wrote:
We`re all grownups here. There`s no reason to feel sick just because you read a thread on A.org. Redrumloa was not asked to leave A.org, quite the opposite actually from what i`ve read!! If he chooses not to post here any more then that is his decision, and his only. It`s the same for everyone else here as well.
Agreed. Yeah some people were being dicks to him. By the same token "I'm taking all my toys and going home!" could be seen as a less than mature reaction as well. Welcome to the internet, please read your flame war introductory manual and grow some thicker skin. From where I sit I don't think either side was especially right or wrong. I have no problem with redrumloa, I don't think his prices are nearly as inflated as some other sellers. I think I bought a part of some kind off him and thought it was a good price. I might again if he were selling something I wanted and it wasn't too much. Shame he left, but he did decide that, so... I'm not losing any sleep over it.
My point was that I personally think it`s wrong to inflate hardware prices by reselling / re-auctioning hardware whilst using A.org as a shop front.
Could not agree more. I'm really disgusted by the prices people are selling Amiga stuff for these days. There are millions and millions of Amigas out there, and certainly not millions of people who actually want them. I'm sure many of the Amigas being sold for $200 on ebay and elsewhere were bought at yard sales for $5... and my own recent experience with somebody who bought up a bunch of ancient SIMMs in bulk and is now selling off antique 128MB memory for what they might've been worth YEARS ago, ugh. Some Amiga parts are genuinely worth a lot of money, but the common stuff really should not be going for what they do.
*However* - it isn't just the sellers fault here. The only reason they can get away with selling stuff at prices that I can only describe as piracy is because we're willing to pay that. As long as there are suckers who will fork over $300 for an Amiga 2000 with a few cards, people will sell them at that price.
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My point was that I personally think it`s wrong to inflate hardware prices by reselling / re-auctioning hardware whilst using A.org as a shop front.
Meh - One person's inflation is another's payment for taking on the risk and hassle of dealing with the Amiga community.
Red always strived to describe products accurately and ship them quickly and safely. How many other individuals and vendors can you say that about? Now, Red didn't make that gear he sold appear out of thin air... So where did he get it from? Oh yeah, he took on the risk of dealing with those other vendors.
Surely its better if things sell for cheaper?!?!?
Not for the sellers... And, really, not for the market, in general. If prices drop cheap enough, any hardware that breaks or is not wanted anymore, people will just trash. If there is a healthy resale market, there's a better chance of preservation.
You see this in the collector car market. When a particular type of vehicle has no resale value, no one will bother to rescue or restore one. As soon as there's some $$ attached, people start pulling them out of fields, barns, and junkyards.
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All the dealings of the past I've done with Redrumloa have been very fair and decent. I've never even had a signal incident of a compliant that could have.
Matter of fact when I sold a little bit of my Amiga hardware, Red was right there willing to make a good deal. He even advised me when I was basically selling it for desperation rates.
All and all he is a good salesperson. For those of you that complain about the prices of stuff, you should realize that you actually don't NEED that stuff. You just want it. Supply and demand. Command and conquer.
That's the capitalist side of me. I'm more then happy to get my fair share of a dollar. If someone is willing to offer more, I'll take that too.
There I'm not a cut-throat rip you off conservative, but on the same page I'm not willing to be a give all and get none socialist. I have my limits.
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Ilwrath wrote:
If prices drop cheap enough, any hardware that breaks or is not wanted anymore, people will just trash. If there is a healthy resale market, there's a better chance of preservation.
Sorry, but that's just absurd. Anybody who is a collector or enthusiast is going to know people want this stuff even if it's cheap... and they're probably not going to throw things away.
People who aren't into Amigas aren't likely to know the stuff is worth anything and will throw things away even if the same item is selling on ebay for $400. To most people who aren't active Amiga users, they're just crappy old computers and are junk. I've gotten quite a bit of Commodore equipment for free or very cheap from people who were just happy to get the crap out of their house and save them the hassle of taking it to the dump.
The fact that some people will pay a lot for this stuff is not saving any hardware. The people who are just throwing the stuff away generally have no contact with the people who are buying and selling on the collector market. They don't know the stuff is worth anything, and probably assume that it's worthless because the computer industry has indoctrinated everybody to equate old with bad.
Some people will take those things for free/cheap and turn around and sell them online for hundreds of dollars. I've gotten things for free or under $50 which I could EASILY have sold for several hundred bucks, but I'm not going to be a douchebag like that. I'd wager that many people who are frequently selling expensive Amiga stuff online are making massive profits on things that otherwise would probably be selling for $10 on craigslist or in flea markets.
Saying these inflated prices are good for the buyer is laughable.
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Sorry, but that's just absurd. Anybody who is a collector or enthusiast is going to know people want this stuff even if it's cheap... and they're probably not going to throw things away.
Not necessarily. I have a broken CS-MK2 in storage. It's probably repairable, but I don't really want to spend the money. If the market for a functional one was only $100, I would have chucked mine in the bin, already. No one would spend the time and money required to repair a cheap item.
But, since the market is above the potential cost to repair mine, I held onto it. I could still get it repaired in the future, or sell/give it to someone who does. So, that is one item preserved by market price. See how that works?
Saying these inflated prices are good for the buyer is laughable.
Not if buyers want to continue to have a market be available.
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murple wrote:
I'm really disgusted by the prices people are selling Amiga stuff for these days. There are millions and millions of Amigas out there, and certainly not millions of people who actually want them. I'm sure many of the Amigas being sold for $200 on ebay and elsewhere were bought at yard sales for $5...
If an Amiga (or any other item for that matter) is listed with a $5 starting price and sells for $200, whose fault is that?
--
moto
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Saying these inflated prices are good for the buyer is laughable.
Preserving more hardware can decrease the rarity of the item there by keeping the prices down.
If everyone threw away their hardware when they tired of it, then what remained may truely reach "collector" status. Ever see the going price of an Apple I?
If you find valuable hardware and give it away for little or no gain, good for you. I prefer to make something more to help fund my hobby, and I'm not a dueche for doing it. Here's my latest true-life axample.... This weekend some one was giving away broken equipment. Of course I went to snatch it up knowing it was worth more to me or some one else. Also knowing that just the bits and peices were probably worth $75 I offered up $40 to take it away. The seller was happy an suprised to get any thing, and I was happy with the pile of junk. When finished I might make $250-300 on the hardware. But first I have to spend time to clean, repair, test and transport it all. There is also a small cost in the parts I will have to replace. Buying for $40 and selling for $300 may look like MASSIVE profit to some. But after 10-20 hours of time and another $50 dollars in parts.... truely I could make more massive profits working hourly at walmart.
Confusing a hobbiest selling his spare hardware, with a business person with operating cost and taxes to concider is also laughable.
Plaz
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Wow! You guys, Red is an Amiga.org heavyweight. How did you guys drive him away? I have debated against him on many issues, but never once did I ever question his integrity.
And some of you may not ever agree with this, but it's guys like Red that help maintain value in the Amiga hardware. Keeping the value in the hardware helps keep the community alive. If there was no value, I'd one day throw my A4000 040 with video capture in the dumpster instead of selling it to a fellow enthusiast. Since the valueless A4000 in the dumpster does nothing for the survival of the community, it should be clear that only the high valued hardware can help the community. Keeping the value as high as possible ensures that the old, ancient, obsolete hardware will remain in circulation for years to come. Artificially devaluating will only hurt the community.
- Mike
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I agree with much that has been said here by all members, but it's really sad that some only value things monetarily. This is easily and obviously one of the largest things wrong with the world today. Wacked out value systems (intrinsic especially) and priorities. I could cite example after example of why this "logic" is flawed or counterproductive... only keeping something around because of its inflated (over or not) "value". Think about why you feel this way and look around. Pretty sad you'd throw something like an A4k away because of it's perceived worth to others.
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I can turn that around and say that if you love the A4000 so much you'd be willing to pay top dollar for it. I know I did when I bought it.
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Glaucus wrote:
Wow! You guys, Red is an Amiga.org heavyweight. How did you guys drive him away? I have debated against him on many issues, but never once did I ever question his integrity.
I didn't really pay attention to the thread, but sometime in January somebody was selling some kind of Amiga hardware at a good price. Red came onto the thread and made a one sentence post like "Too cheap!" and a bunch of people started giving him crap for encouraging people to sell things at higher prices. It escalated from there and I think some people claimed Red was doing some unethical stuff on AmiBay. Red basically said "screw you guys I'm going home" and that was that. It was all pretty silly.
There was no excuse for Red to yell at somebody for selling hardware cheap.
There was no excuse for people to accuse Red of doing unethical stuff that they couldn't prove.
It was pretty retarded from what I saw of it.
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I personally don't care about this at all. I don't care if Red is here or gone - its a free country you can do whatever you want. However, I highly doubt RED is a a.org heavyweight. Just b/c he posts a lot doesn't mean s**t.
You could be very stupid and posting a lot - does that mean you're some expert heavyweight? (btw, red is not stupid but not super smart either, maybe to some of you). Ever see his posts asking for advice/help here? perhaps that asking for advice and then selling the same item ("fixed") that caused him some unpopular posts. Perhaps being moderator and seller on this forum also? Again I don't care about him (bad/good) in any particular way. And if there were personal attacks on him or me - well thats not allowed on a.org. either way if he/me or anyone does not want to come to a.org to post thats fine.
Glaucus wrote:
Wow! You guys, Red is an Amiga.org heavyweight. How did you guys drive him away? I have debated against him on many issues, but never once did I ever question his integrity.
And some of you may not ever agree with this, but it's guys like Red that help maintain value in the Amiga hardware.
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Glaucus wrote:
I can turn that around and say that if you love the A4000 so much you'd be willing to pay top dollar for it. I know I did when I bought it.
Nope sorry, can't relate. I love sex too, but would NEVER pay for it ;-) Contextually speaking, top dollar or "bargain basement". lol And no, we're not going to get into how expensive it is maintaining a human relationship these days... the Amiga habit would clearly win :lol:
What I am saying is that people can value something without always having to stick a monetary price on it. Just because I would not pay "top dollar" for something does not mean I intrinsically value it any less.
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terminator4 wrote:
However, I highly doubt RED is a a.org heavyweight. Just b/c he posts a lot doesn't mean s**t.
You could be very stupid and posting a lot - does that mean you're some expert heavyweight?
I think you're mistaking my comment to mean that he's some kind of super Amiga expert, like Dave Haynie or something. No, I said Amiga.org heavyweight, as in this forum. I'm sure he knows his Amiga stuff, but that's not what I was saying. As for A.org, the guy has been around for ever, has the respect of many people and has earned the position of moderator. Does he have his off days? Yes. Does he say things that many disagree with? Yes. I've gotten into flame wars with him many times, but that's beside the point. Even though I think his judgment may be skewed on some issues, I believe he's the type that strives to always do the right thing. I guess what I'm saying is that I have a good level of trust for the guy and think it's sad to see him driven away like that. However, for this community it's par for the course.
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save2600 wrote:
What I am saying is that people can value something without always having to stick a monetary price on it.
Yes, me too. I like Amigas cheap and expensive. I just like'em. But it's certainly also true that monetary value can help preserve them because like previous people have said, it's an incentive to sell them instead of destroying them. I can't argue with that.
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Glaucus wrote:
terminator4 wrote:
However, I highly doubt RED is a a.org heavyweight. Just b/c he posts a lot doesn't mean s**t.
You could be very stupid and posting a lot - does that mean you're some expert heavyweight?
I think you're mistaking my comment to mean that he's some kind of super Amiga expert, like Dave Haynie or something. No, I said Amiga.org heavyweight, as in this forum. I'm sure he knows his Amiga stuff, but that's not what I was saying. As for A.org, the guy has been around for ever, has the respect of many people and has earned the position of moderator. Does he have his off days? Yes. Does he say things that many disagree with? Yes. I've gotten into flame wars with him many times, but that's beside the point. Even though I think his judgment may be skewed on some issues, I believe he's the type that strives to always do the right thing. I guess what I'm saying is that I have a good level of trust for the guy and think it's sad to see him driven away like that. However, for this community it's par for the course.
It wasn't always that way, but a few bad (more holy than thou) apples can ruin the whole barrel.
I am amazed that there are more than just one or two here that don't understand the economics that determine what the "value" of a THING is. Sellers can price items all day long as high as a kite, but if no one buys it, that high price is not it's value. Buyers determine the value, period.
Also, those who preach their morals to others should also not be the first to throw stones (personal attacks).
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smerf wrote:
OK, which one of you dumb fraks ran off red, just purchased some items off of him and it all worked great.
Ha, classic smerf! At least we can say we're on the same side for once! :-)
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Hi,
@Glaucus
Hey how is my old Canadian friend doing?
Haven't seen a post from you in ages, How is Canada, I moved up to Pennsyltucky and am living amongst a bunch of damn yankees. Man they are worse than Canadians. (Never thought I would say that did you?)
Mostly
I agree with you for once.
Have a nice Canadian day?
smerf
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Hi,
@Amigadave
Looky here,
Reds comment of "Way to Cheeeap) could of meant several different things like:
1. Wow are you getting a good deal
2. The seller is sure being a nice guy
3. The seller is a blooming idiot
4. Darn that is a good price
5. The buyer is robbing you
When I read the post, I took it for "wow what a deal"
You probably interpited it for:
The seller is an idiot or the buyer is robbing you blind
Either way, it is all opinion and we all know what opinions are, in case you don't know here is the old saying
Opinions are like classholes and they all stink
smerf
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Hi,
@murple
Read my post to Amigadave
I have known Red for about 10 years, bought a lot of stuff from him, all I can say is that he is cheaper than a lot of Amiga dealers out there who are still charging top dollar for the Amiga stuff, but to accuse him of charging higher prices than he should is absurd. He owns a business, he takes time to find, get his sellers price, store than sell what he has.
I am not his friend or an associate with him, I am just a buyer, if I like his price, I buy, if I don't like his price I go else where.
Red has freedom of speech, and he said something that could be translated into several different terms, the morons that accused him didn't even ask which term he meant. You just accused him. Sure when under attack, he tried to fight back, his business and life were being put under attack by a bunch of morons that never even asked to cheap in what way. Once again read my post to Amigadave.
smerf
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@smerf,
I think you should read my posts again, as all of them were intended to point out that those who "Jumped On" Red because of THEIR interpretation of his three word sentence, were totally out of line IMHO.
When I read that other thread I took Red's "too cheap" posting exactly as he later described it and nothing more.
If I had been attacked so swiftly and viciously without being asked the meaning of my posting, I probably would have reacted in much the same manner that Red did.
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Hi,
@Amigadave,
OOPS!
Been so long that I read that posting I thought you were one of the attackers, glad you agree with me. I didn't even think nothing of Reds post when I first read it. I was still looking for something ridiculous that Red would have said. I was totally disappointed, because I couldn't flame on at Red. (I do like to flame on you know, it is my signature). Anyhow sorry if I accused you of something you didn't do. Let me go back and read that post. I am sure we will have something to flame on about.
smerf
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@smerf,
It is a very long and ridiculous read, if you read the whole thread, then read all of this thread.
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Hi,
@Tension
You ever been to school, you ever study business, that is the nature of business, buy cheap, sell high, you have overhead, you have storage costs etc.
Second Who said Red liked us?
He has a business, I buy because I like his price, no more no less. You want friends, go fishing. You want to enhance your living buy cheap sell at a higher price but lower than your competitors.
Give Red a break, I admire him for his prices, yes some of his stuff is high, but I am a shopper, I buys what I likes, no more no less.
If Red says something I don't like I flame him likes I flames everybody else, but I still believe Red is a good businessman, and I respect him for what he does, after all he helps support my Amiga habit.
smerf
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"You want friends, go fishing." :roflmao: :roflmao:
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@smerf,
Tension, Murple, save2600, arkanoid, and a few others seem to think that it is immoral and deviously wrong for anyone to buy Amiga gear low and then resell it to Amiga users at a higher price. Specially if they find it for free, or very low cost and make a good profit because the item is worth a few hundred dollars on eBay. They seem to act as if such a person is a criminal and has wronged the Amiga community and is responsible for artificially manipulating Amiga gear prices, which is ridiculous. Where is it written that a person is immoral if he does not choose to give away, or sell for a huge percentage less than what the
"Market Price" is for an Amiga item he has found for free, or at very low cost? I am sure Red has spent thousands over the years buying Amiga gear that was sometimes difficult to find, and has done the community a great service by putting such gear back into the community. Why shouldn't he be entitled to make as much money as he can for his time and effort?
It is silly how some people rave about how great Amiga computers are and how much they love them and what their collection is worth to them and then complain all the time about the prices of such limited quantity, or sometimes rare equipment.
Some of them attacked Red for being a moderator here, without a single example of him abusing such power, but only on the grounds that he is also an Amiga reseller. I guess they would expect him to go sell his Amiga gear on a Windows forum (sarcasm intended). Or they think that it is immoral for an Amiga reseller to also help out the community by serving as a moderator, as they surely spouted a lot of crap about what is morally right and wrong along with their character attacks on Red.
I know that I should have probably just backed away from this topic, but the whole mess has really pi$$ed me off and I have seen little to no remorse from those who acted completely inappropriately toward Red with their personal attacks and those who continue to try to force their view on how Amiga gear should, or should not be valued and priced, as well as what should be accepted as morally right and wrong in this community, if not in every one of our personal lives. It is all a load of "holy" bull crap and I just couldn't sit by and keep quiet any longer.
So come on and flame me, you idiots!
For the rest, sorry for the rant.
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(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/zebeedee/animated-avatars0502.gif)
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This has gone on long enough gentlemen. It's readily apparent to me that no matter what, some of you won't be happy until there's NO ONE (including probably me) trying to actively support this community.
When that happens, I wish you the best of luck.
(click says the lock on this thread)
Wayne