Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: KatManDEW on February 24, 2009, 04:17:35 PM

Title: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: KatManDEW on February 24, 2009, 04:17:35 PM
I got an Apollo 1240 for my A1200, and it doesn't look like there is any way to use the stock A1200 keyboard with the Apollo installed.

Is it normal to use external keyboards with A1200 accelerators?
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: jrfjunior on February 24, 2009, 04:38:26 PM
What I know is that Apollo works with A1200 but some revisions of A1200 motherboards require some fixes (mostly jumpers between tracks of the motherboard) to work with this accelerator.

Quote

KatManDEW wrote:
I got an Apollo 1240 for my A1200, and it doesn't look like there is any way to use the stock A1200 with the Apollo installed.

Is it normal to use external keyboards with A1200 accelerators?
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: jj on February 24, 2009, 04:50:31 PM
There is  no reason a trapdoor accelerator like an apollo or blizzard would need an external keyboard.

They were ddesigned and have been used all  over the world to fit in the origianl wedge without any mods .
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: tribz on February 24, 2009, 05:42:45 PM
Sounds like you may have a non original heatsink or fan on it which is getting in the way of the keyboard. I got a low profile hs and fan from CPC to sort mine when I had it.
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: KatManDEW on February 24, 2009, 06:30:37 PM
The heat sink would probably a problem, if the memory SIMM wasn't an even bigger problem...

(http://www.katmandew.com/images/Amiga/Apollo%201240-1.jpg)
(http://www.katmandew.com/images/Amiga/Apollo%201240-2.jpg)
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: KatManDEW on February 24, 2009, 07:40:39 PM
Do I need to install any drivers for this board? I found a Apollo 060 disk at Amiga Resource and Installers Heaven.

I can't boot from hard drive with the 1240 and the memory installed. I can boot from HD without the memory installed, and I can boot from floppy if the memory is installed.
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: clint on February 24, 2009, 07:42:22 PM
Hi KatManDEW

This looks nothing like my Apollo 1240, the memory SIMM on mine lies parallel to the card with the barrel type battery on mine both on the trapdoor lid side. The fan on mine is on the same side as yours but is 20mm square and 10mm thick. I think the one you have is for an A1200 Mobo that has been put in a tower.

clint
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: KatManDEW on February 24, 2009, 07:54:55 PM
Quote

clint wrote:
I think the one you have is for an A1200 Mobo that has been put in a tower.
clint


That has to be what it is, because there is no way it can be used otherwise.
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: amigakit on February 24, 2009, 08:42:16 PM
Your Apollo 1240 has two SIMM sockets, one on each side of the accelerator.  You dont need to populate the upper SIMM socket if used within desktop case- solely use the lower SIMM socket.

When no SIMM is in the upper memory socket, the keyboard should fit.

Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: tribz on February 24, 2009, 09:38:53 PM
Quote

KatManDEW wrote:
The heat sink would probably a problem, if the memory SIMM wasn't an even bigger problem...



Ah, mine didnt have the extra simm slot on the back. Now if you'd mentioned that in your first post ;-)
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: KatManDEW on February 24, 2009, 10:03:20 PM
Quote

amigakit wrote:
Your Apollo 1240 has two SIMM sockets, one on each side of the accelerator.  You dont need to populate the upper SIMM socket if used within desktop case- solely use the lower SIMM socket.

When no SIMM is in the upper memory socket, the keyboard should fit.



DUH!  I should have noticed that!  I glanced at that and thought it was a SCSI connector.

I got the SIMM in the bottom socket now, but the keyboard still hits the CPU fan.

I also have to disable CPU caches to get it to boot from hard disk with the SIMM in the top or bottom socket.

Is there a driver I need to install, or something in my hard disk startup that is causing the problem? I can boot from floppy without disabling the CPU caches...

Thanks for the support!

(http://www.katmandew.com/images/Amiga/Apollo%201240-4.jpg)
(http://www.katmandew.com/images/Amiga/Apollo%201240-3.jpg)
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: Matt_H on February 24, 2009, 10:10:35 PM
That's not the original heatsink/fan - you'll need a smaller one.

040s generate a lot of heat, though, so keep a close eye on it.
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: amigakit on February 24, 2009, 10:14:35 PM
Simply loosen the front two screws for the fan attached to the heatsink, remove the two back screws from the fan completely.  

Slide the fan back away from the keyboard about an inch or so until the keyboard clears the fan.   When in good position, re-tighten the two front screws into the heatsink to secure the fan in place.  

Check your LIBS: drawer, remove the Commodore 68040.library from the LIBS:
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: NovaCoder on February 24, 2009, 10:17:55 PM
Quote

Matt_H wrote:
That's not the original heatsink/fan - you'll need a smaller one.

040s generate a lot of heat, though, so keep a close eye on it.


Exactly why I wouldn't go for a desktop case.  For a desktop install go for an 020, 030 or 060.
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: DoogUK on February 24, 2009, 10:54:35 PM
Posting this from my desktop miggy with apollo 1240@40 :)
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: KatManDEW on February 24, 2009, 11:52:54 PM
Wow! You guys are the greatest!

Removing the 68040 library fixed the hard disk booting problem with CPU caches enabled!

Turns out the fan is not the only clearance problem. With the fan out of the way, the keyboard hits the SIMM socket. The keyboard is still way too high to reinstall the top of the case.

That SIMM socket really needs to be a right angle socket for this board to be mounted in a desktop.

Here's a pic of it sitting on the SIMM socket alone...

(http://www.katmandew.com/images/Amiga/Apollo%201240-5.jpg)
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: da9000 on February 25, 2009, 03:57:02 AM
The reason the SIMM socket hits the keyboard is that this card is for TOWER mods of A1200. Whoever sold you the card should have told you it's not for desktops.

You can hack it in as Matthew pointed out by sliding the fan, but you said there's still a problem with the socket.

One option is to trade it with another user's Apollo 1240 which is not the tower version.

Another is to unsolder the SIMM socket, but I *highly* recommend to NOT do that because you can damage the board and delicate tracks unless you have a lot of experience with soldering and some good tools.

And the third option: build a towered A1200 ;-)
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: Fingers on February 25, 2009, 04:00:53 AM
Quote

da9000 wrote:
And the third option: build a towered A1200 ;-)


To me that's the only option! :-D

PZ.
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: KatManDEW on February 26, 2009, 03:50:26 PM
I didn't know there was such a thing as a tower-only accelerator for the A1200, or I would have specified that when I ordered it.

I wouldn't mind using a tower case, but I wanted a classic A1200 right now, and I don't really have the money for a tower case setup right now.

I have the 1240 working in my A1200 right now, but I feel like I'm walking on egg shells because the keyboard, which is pretty heavy itself, is resting on the SIMM socket and thus pushing on the 1240. And typing exerts additional force.

Not to mention the fact that the whole setup is just plain clumsy and dorky looking.

Quote

da9000 wrote:
The reason the SIMM socket hits the keyboard is that this card is for TOWER mods of A1200. Whoever sold you the card should have told you it's not for desktops.

Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: DoogUK on February 26, 2009, 05:02:58 PM
Doesnt it have the simm socket on the reverse side??
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: KatManDEW on March 11, 2009, 11:01:09 AM
Quote

DoogUK wrote:
Doesnt it have the simm socket on the reverse side??


Yea, it has a socket on the reverse side. But even without any memory in the top socket, the top socket itself sticks up way too high to allow the keyboard and case to be reassembled.
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: DoogUK on March 11, 2009, 11:45:26 AM
I'd remove the 2nd simm socket in that case unless you are happy to go ahead with your plans for a tower.
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: KatManDEW on March 11, 2009, 04:43:00 PM
Quote

DoogUK wrote:
I'd remove the 2nd simm socket in that case unless you are happy to go ahead with your plans for a tower.


I'm not totally sold on the idea and expense of a tower system.

I'm tempted to hack some off the top of the SIMM socket with a hot knife, and bend the metal clips back enough so that the keyboard and case can be reassembled. I think the SIMM socket might still be usable down the road, even if it required using a rubber band or zip tie to hold a SIMM in the socket.
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: doctorq on March 11, 2009, 05:27:04 PM
Quote

I didn't know there was such a thing as a tower-only accelerator for the A1200, or I would have specified that when I ordered it.


There isn't such a thing, but some accelerators is recommended to be used in a tower case, for instance the Apollo 1240 you have. As you have already discovered, it works fine with your A1200 desktop, the computer just can't be reassembled.

Quote

I'm tempted to hack some off the top of the SIMM socket with a hot knife, and bend the matal clips back enough so that the keyboard and case can be reassembled. I think the SIMM socket might still be usable down the road, even if it required using a rubber band or zip tie to hold a SIMM in the socket.


If I were you, I wouldn't do that. You dramatically reduce the price of the card if you plan on selling it, and you end up with a machine you aren't satified with (the 040 card generate a lot of heat, which means that the A1200 often needs to be raised above the table, making it unstable again, depending on how you raise the computer).

If it was me, I would bite the bullet, and sell the card with a loss, and go for a Blizzard 030 card instead. It generates less heat, fits the trapdoor perfectly, you can reassemble the case, can take up to 128 MB of ram, etc. If you want more horsepower you can go for a 060 card.

Maybe someone would like to trade their Blizzard 1240 for your Apollo 040?
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: DoogUK on March 11, 2009, 05:50:05 PM
or send it to PG who will upgrade it to 060 and remove that simm socket for a very reasonable price  :-D
Title: Re: External keyboard needed with A1200 accelerators?
Post by: Damion on March 11, 2009, 07:00:02 PM
Quote

DoogUK wrote:
or send it to PG who will upgrade it to 060 and remove that simm socket for a very reasonable price  :-D


I also think this is the best idea, if you need the power. Otherwise, a 68030 card is the best/most compatible option for gaming (and still quick).