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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: DiskDoctor on February 04, 2009, 09:52:13 PM

Title: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: DiskDoctor on February 04, 2009, 09:52:13 PM
Hello,

I recently tried out some 3.x system from AmigaForever pack.
The browser is much outdated but works.

Roughly...

So this is a question rather - is there any proxy server adjusting content to ANY Amiga browser??

If not, it's easy to establish one really.
Two examples:

1) cellphone operators in most cases use proxy for WAP/WAP2 connection - as far as I know its purpose is among others to adjust content to (or check against) xHTML (in WAP2.0)

2) Opera Mini, since released, uses its own proxy server to transform and fit ANY page to ANY cell, even some 128 x . screen(!!)

So, doesn't seem tough.

Maybe I am an ignorant - is there any proxy dedicated to transforming web content for old (ancient) Amiga browsers??
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: DiskDoctor on February 04, 2009, 10:05:55 PM
One more thing - anybody knows how to change UserAgent in AWEB.1 from AmigaForever's AmigaOS3.X??
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: Piru on February 04, 2009, 10:10:53 PM
Quote
So, doesn't seem tough.

Famous last words...
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: DiskDoctor on February 04, 2009, 10:25:40 PM
Quote

Piru wrote:
Quote
So, doesn't seem tough.

Famous last words...


I don't get it
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: Piru on February 04, 2009, 10:46:26 PM
It is tough. Very tough. At least if you desire to get anywhere usable result.
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: gurthuk on February 04, 2009, 10:57:25 PM
Opera Mini and Mobile are a pig as they mask the true user-agent of the mobile, which in turn prevents content providers from displaying content that is correct for your mobile phone. Content providers then dumb down the site and show only the basic content despite you having an all-singing mobile. Country detection is also screwed as everyone appears to be in Sweden (Opera's gateway).

Mobile operators also mess with the content when it passes through their gateways; strip out adverts and replace them with their own, lower the quality of images to aid faster download, change tags in the code and block sites if they think you're under 18 and the site is adult (check for adult keyword combinations).

Could use a transcoder like www.google.com/m but Google will push you out if they can see your user-agent isn't a mobile device.

Could look for other transcoders and see how they work?
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: DiskDoctor on February 04, 2009, 11:56:18 PM
@Piru

It is not tough, at all.

@gurthuk

Google mobile aliases are mess already :)

Use your e.g. 3.X native browser Try m.google.com (http://m.google.com) or mobile.google.com (http://mobile.google.com) and switch to mobile device.

What you get... Google sees Amiga UserAgent and considers it unknown (no wonder).  Note that if you were using IE or Firefox or Safari or else, Google would know it and serve you a normal webpage.

But all unknown UAs are considered as very old or odd cellphones.  Old cellphones used WML instead of xHTML so what you get is a WML document, not viewable in any www browser since it's just some XML.

Say, I worked for two years in a mobile industry, enabling new phones in mCMS so that any phone is served properly.  All you gotta do is forge your UserAgent.  It's easy to pick on the web (the string) and if you introduce yourself as a decent WindowsMobile device (e.g. QVGA, VGA maybe), you will be served pure xhtml, formatted to 240 x 320 resolution so fine for Amigas.

So I think it is about to catch HTTP request on a system level and change it, that's all.  I am eager about the result...
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: persia on February 05, 2009, 12:16:52 AM
User Agent is a string provided by your brower.  Most browsers have a plug in to set your user-agent to anything you want, like say Opera-Mini on a Cra or whatever.

Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: DiskDoctor on February 05, 2009, 08:58:53 AM
Quote

persia wrote:
User Agent is a string provided by your brower.  Most browsers have a plug in to set your user-agent to anything you want, like say Opera-Mini on a Cra or whatever.


Yes, I know it.

My question was about Amiga old browsers - do you know any plugin or rather system script / way of doing this?

I want to play on this OS3.X and see the results.
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: gurthuk on February 05, 2009, 09:14:27 AM
I use the user-agent switcher extension for Firefox. Not sure of a OS3.x alternative.

I'll have a dig round in my bookmarks later as I'm sure I have a transcoder site somewhere...
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: DiskDoctor on February 05, 2009, 10:21:29 AM
That's what I get:

AWeb (www.amigaforever.com)/3.4APL; (Spoofed by Amiga-AWeb/3.4APL)
(it's a string - no link here)


Here (http://search.cpan.org/~cmanley/Mobile-UserAgent-1.05/lib/Mobile/UserAgent.pm) is a pretty list.

I would like to change it e.g. to

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320)

There MUST be a script!
I am not able to search this Aminet stuff - always get null answer :(
But I'll keep trying.

Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: gurthuk on February 05, 2009, 10:32:43 AM
How is your Amiga connected to the interent?

wi-fi to a router?
ethernet to a router?
ethernet to a PC which is sharing its connection?

If it’s the later you might be able to intercept the header being sent and change it before being sent out.
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: DiskDoctor on February 05, 2009, 11:34:12 AM

It is not Amiga, it's AmigaForever software.
But I have 3.X AWeb emulation in it.

It's run on WinXP that has a WiFi connection to my access point which is, in turn, connected to my ISP's cable modem.

I searched Aminet but found and installed only this (http://os4.aminet.net/package/comm/www/httphandler) - it doesn't help.
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: bloodline on February 05, 2009, 11:43:02 AM
@DiskDoctor

It seems a lot of work for the 5 users who insist on using old Amiga Browsers for anything other than novelty value!
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: gurthuk on February 05, 2009, 11:48:26 AM
Skweezer.com seem to have a good mobile transcoder service.
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: DiskDoctor on February 05, 2009, 12:25:56 PM
Quote

bloodline wrote:
@DiskDoctor

It seems a lot of work for the 5 users who insist on using old Amiga Browsers for anything other than novelty value!


I didn't realize it's five users only; my impression was rather that many people do since this very CMS here is supported by old browsers, isn't it?

Also, what about people using 3.X classics?  If I did, I would surely want to use it as FULL desktop system whilst 80% of the desktop feel is a fine web browser nowadays.  This AWeb I'm seeing requires cleanup really.

So this is worth it I think.
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: weirdami on February 05, 2009, 12:55:08 PM
My website works with any browser already.
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: DiskDoctor on February 05, 2009, 01:11:06 PM
Quote

weirdami wrote:
My website works with any browser already.


Good for you.  BTW did you try WAP/WML (1.0, 1.1) enabled cellphone as well? :)

I meant top sites being visited.  Most (110%) webmasters are testing sites against IE7, IE6, recent FF and eventually Opera.  Safari will be added in two years maybe.

Period.

You will never achieve old Amiga browser support automatically...  Too much of fancy new w3 technologies no one can live without are there.
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: Ilwrath on February 05, 2009, 01:13:41 PM
Quote
It seems a lot of work for the 5 users who insist on using old Amiga Browsers for anything other than novelty value!


It really isn't, though.  Back before my A4000D took a nosedive, I used to run it's iBrowse and AWeb through my local Privoxy proxy that ran on my gateway NAT/ICS server.  Just by that stripping useless junk code out of the HTML, it accidentally improved compatibility quite a bit for the Amiga.  

I never thought of trying to present an Amiga browser as an old cell phone.  That's an interesting idea.  What you'd have to do, though, is find some still somewhat supported phone/browser combo that has such a limited feature set as an old Amiga browser, though.  Not the most common thing in the world.  
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: Linde on February 05, 2009, 02:39:39 PM
Taken to the extreme I'd say ALynx would be a solution, but I'm guessing that's not quite what you want. I just turned all images off in AWeb on my old 1200 and it works fine for most site's I'd actually want to visit from it (WHDownload, aminet etc)
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: DiskDoctor on February 05, 2009, 03:00:27 PM
The idea behind it is maybe to have such a proxy server that recognizes your browser (by its UA), hence knowing W3 standards it accepts (e.g. HTML version).  Then it forwards http request, introducing itself as an adequate known UA (possibly mobile, too, like WindowsMobile).

My idea is that there are two proxy components
- simple forward using predefined UA list
- forward and (XSL) transformation to the native html code

Since old Amiga browsers are simple, transforming should be pretty simple, too.

How I see it - by clicking "refresh" button, proxy would switch among all possibilities (user agents corresponding to one's browser, plus transformation mode).  Then one could "switch" anytime between content been served, so that he/she picks up most fancy one, probably thoroughly better than original.

See my point?
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: Varthall on February 05, 2009, 03:10:53 PM
As you are running 3.x under emulation, you could try instead OWB for 68k which supports more up-to-date web standards.

Varthall
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: Munchkin on February 05, 2009, 04:30:49 PM
For the most part sites work with IBrowse if javascript is turned off, at least for me.

Of course sites with heavy use of CSS looks like cr*p and for those a solution like this could be something. My main concern is for those sites that won't work if you disable javascript, sites like hotmail and others. No current OS3.x browser can handle javascripts without crashing the system, at least not here.
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: DiskDoctor on February 05, 2009, 09:04:51 PM
I'll try to run my tests as soon as I learn how to spoof my UA under/within AOS3.X.  I have AmigaForever version actually.  Again, anybody knows the way??

As a first run I'll try to collect as much nice "look and feel" UserAgents as possible, mainly mobile, testing on a native browser I have access to.
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: gurthuk on February 05, 2009, 09:07:24 PM
I'll PM you an XML file of user-agents I use with Firefox / User-agent switcher.

Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: gurthuk on February 05, 2009, 09:09:59 PM
Another good list can be found at Wurfl (http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/) although it might not be a easy to use format -3Mb XML
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: gurthuk on February 05, 2009, 09:15:05 PM
email sent - Wurfl and my email are all mobile user-agents
Title: Re: Any webpage on ANY Amiga browser?
Post by: DiskDoctor on February 05, 2009, 09:36:41 PM
Thanks.

But I won't use firefox - I have to look at webpages through my AmigaForever/AWeb so... I have to spoof it at Windows level, I guess.