Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: WotTheFook on January 04, 2009, 02:37:36 PM
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Hi,
I am pleased to announce that we looked into the comment about multiple account activity on AmiBay that was levelled at redrumloa and we have found absolutely no evidence to support this comment.
Accordingly, his Trader account on AmiBay has been re-instated in full.
We trust that the matter relating to red's AmiBay activity is now closed and we apologise to red for the inconvenience caused while we investigated.
Regards,
WotTheFook aka Merlin
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I wasn't even aware that there was supposed to be a problem.
What was it? An unfounded accusation by some petty, sulking git because he failed to get an A3000 for $10?
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Even if the accusation was unfounded, we felt it was necessary to prove things one way or the other and fortunately this has cleared red's name completely. We just wanted to put a lid on the matter and stop further speculation.
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come on guys, let's keep it cool. Last thing we need is another fraction in our community. We can't afford to have seperate amigan factions differing on trading terms. I offer a call for peace. and let's respect each others opinions.
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Darrin: to understand why his account at AmiBay was called into question, you would have to read this entire thread: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39684
Things got a little out of hand (as they often do on internet forums), but I think it basically boils down to the fact that - in that thread - Red made it clear that he was against selling Amiga wares at "community prices". Which lead to the question of exactly why he, as a "professional trader", would have an account over at Amibay. Considering that Amibay was setup largely to counteract Amiga based profiteering by encouraging sane pricing and anti-price hiking practices.
This perhaps got the mods of Amibay thinking (as it should do) and they rightfully investigated the matter. As they would with any other user.
Thankfully the issue is resolved.
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arkanoid wrote:
Darrin: to understand why his account at AmiBay was called into question, you would have to read this entire thread: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39684
Things got a little out of hand (as they often do on internet forums), but I think it basically boils down to the fact that - in that thread - Red made it clear that he was against selling Amiga wares at "community prices". Which lead to the question of exactly why he, as a "professional trader", would have an account over at Amibay. Considering that Amibay was setup largely to counteract Amiga based profiteering by encouraging sane pricing and anti-price hiking practices.
This perhaps got the mods of Amibay thinking (as it should do) and they rightfully investigated the matter. As they would with any other user.
Thankfully the issue is resolved.
Thanks for that link. I missed that whole thread.
That's a mountain out of a mole hill. I can see why the person who was buying the card got a bit upset at Red's remarks (There's nothing like trying to pick up a bargain and then having some yell "double the price mate!" over your shoulder. However the remarks made against Red and the way he does business were totally disgusting.
I've bought many items from him both on eBay and pre-eBay and I've always got A+ service and never felt that I've paid too much. He's also someone that I know would resolve a problem quickly and that adds an extra level of "value" to whatever he's selling.
It's obvious why Red has an AmiBay account, it's to advertise his pre-eBay items to the community before they end up on eBay and possibly in the hands of collectors who don't even switch on an Amiga these days. Suggesting that he waits in the shadows looking for bargains to pounce on a resell is a bit low.
As a businessman he's entitled to make as much money as he can on the hardware and when it comes to eBay sales he doesn't set the price, the buyer does.
That whole thread is just plain ugly. I've got several Amigas and parts that I've been planning to put on eBay for months, but it's reading comments like those that keep them on the shelves gathering dust.
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@WotTheFook
I thought the multiple account comment came after you had already stated:
WotTheFook wrote:
@redrumloa
"I'm not a communist and I do not run a charity. What sense would it make for me to sell items at a fraction of their actual worth?"
OK then, so you are a big-time capitalist, who has nothing but contempt for the members on here and tries to screw every last nickel out of them, unless you are buying; does that sound closer to the mark?
Oh, by the way; based on your comments here, your account has been frozen over at Amibay, until you can explain your ideas of capitalism to the Admins via PM, along with how they would benefit our members at AmiBay, to our satisfaction.
I thought this was why you did what you did. Not that it matters much, just found your post curious in that respect. But good to see things cooling down. :-D
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WotTheFook wrote:
Even if the accusation was unfounded, we felt it was necessary to prove things one way or the other and fortunately this has cleared red's name completely. We just wanted to put a lid on the matter and stop further speculation.
I see. Good idea, but I could have told you that anyway. :-D
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Darrin wrote:
I've bought many items from him both on eBay and pre-eBay and I've always got A+ service and never felt that I've paid too much. He's also someone that I know would resolve a problem quickly and that adds an extra level of "value" to whatever he's selling.
As was pointed out on numerous occasions in that thread, the issue was not with whether Redrumola is a "good trader" or not. His record proves that he obviously is. Also, nobody was concerned with the prices HE chooses to charge for HIS items in HIS sales.
The issue people had was with his intervention in a sale between enthusiasts and him yelling "double the price mate!" That's all.
And if you read the thread carefully, you'll see that Red was just as much a part of the general "mud slinging" as anyone else. There were no hard done by "victims" in that thread, I assure you.
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"waaaaay too cheap"...... best trolling i have seen in ages, good entertainment to read that link :lol:
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ffastback wrote:
@WotTheFook
I thought the multiple account comment came after you had already stated:
WotTheFook wrote:
@redrumloa
"I'm not a communist and I do not run a charity. What sense would it make for me to sell items at a fraction of their actual worth?"
OK then, so you are a big-time capitalist, who has nothing but contempt for the members on here and tries to screw every last nickel out of them, unless you are buying; does that sound closer to the mark?
Oh, by the way; based on your comments here, your account has been frozen over at Amibay, until you can explain your ideas of capitalism to the Admins via PM, along with how they would benefit our members at AmiBay, to our satisfaction.
I thought this was why you did what you did. Not that it matters much, just found your post curious in that respect. But good to see things cooling down. :-D
Good point :-)
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arkanoid wrote:
Darrin: to understand why his account at AmiBay was called into question, you would have to read this entire thread: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39684
As a result of that moronic thread (on every side), I dare to suggest that we might not see red around here much any more. He did, in fact, ask me to close his account, which I obviously declined, as I always do (because it would orphan thousands of posts).
I grant you, as I told him, that he was a bit out of line with his initial remark in the other thread, and he accepted my comment, but the degree of venom and hatred launched at him is exactly why most of the people trying to support this community are literally giving up and walking away.
This isn't a religion people, it's supposed to be a hobby. Hobbies by definition are supposed to be fun. Take away the fun (as a lot of people went out of the way to do in that thread), and boing... no more support from that person for the community.
Yes, redrumloa could be considered one of our last professional dealers (as is amikit -- another slandered seller recently) but there is a point where the money involved simply isn't worth all the childish bullspit that he has to put up with to get it.
I'm just sayin... There are a lot of people on this site that need to step back, hear what I'm saying, and apologize.
Wayne
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WotTheFook wrote:
"Even if the accusation was unfounded, we felt it was necessary to prove things one way or the other"
Wasn't suspending ReDrum's account kind of like "Guilty until proven innocent"? As I recall I think it was things like this that inspired many of our Forefathers to leave where you are at and come here. The only reason there was a suspension at all was because he had a different opinion than you that you didn't believe in. Community price (whatever that is) VS Market price.
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@Wayne: I'll certainly be the first to step up and apologize for making any unfounded or agitating comments.
I hope Red understands that the only point most people were making was: "hey, you're a professional dealer and for you to encourage price hiking between enthusiasts is not on". That's all it boils down too - nothing more - despite things getting way out of hand (on both sides). Hopefully he sees that, and realizes that it was nothing personal against him. In fact, most people's comments were about a general PRINCIPLE of price gouging...not about Red.
He's obviously a very good trader and shouldn't let people's opinions in that thread about that particular subject bother him so much. It would be sad to see him leave the community on that basis alone.
So I'm offering him my personal apology for allowing things to get out of hand. Hopefully he sees that it was nothing personal against him. It was just a silly discussion that went a bit off the rails.
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Oh no :-(
Look at this EBAY (http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-new-Commodore-Amiga-CD32-STB-Computer-UNUSED-NOS_W0QQitemZ120357533218QQihZ002QQcategoryZ4598QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262)
.... I've lost interest in all things Amiga.
This is sad news! :cry:
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The whole damned thing got childish and rhetorical. I would happily pay Red's prices if I had the cash to spare. He does the Amiga community a great service by putting in his own resources to obtain items which might otherwise wind up in a landfill, and ensuring that the purchaser gains a quality Amiga item with no bullshyt.
There's nothing immoral or unethical about wanting to make a profit on one's hobby and passion; that's how many great success stories are born.
On the same token, there is nothing wrong with someone who does not wish to make a profit, immense or otherwise, on his or her Amiga items. I would rather sell to someone low who will cherish and use an item than high to someone who will put it in a glass case. I've given away Commodore 64 and Amiga equipment to people who have sworn to use them, and everyone has lived up to that.
To that end, my resources have already been compensated by my use of whatever it is I'm selling. That is my profit.
I believe in Red and his way of conducting business of which I am aware. At the same time, I feel he was certainly out of line with his comment. Chalk it up to brief moment of poor judgment, unappreciated humor, or whatever you may. Given that he provides a valuable service to the Amiga community, he deserves our respect and gratitude.
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Well, really, it's hard to understand why any honest individuals WOULD choose to work with the Amiga "community" anymore.
The price bickering is completely braindead. What it all comes down to is these items are increasingly old, rare, and fragile. They are worth exactly what someone wants to pay for them. The only reason prices go up is because people are willing to pay them. Griping and wishing and yelling and flaming won't change that.
Red's an honest merchant who always strives to describe items and fees accurately and ship purchases safely. How many others could you say that about?
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Given a little time hopefully red will get over what was said in that thread. It would certainly be a shame to lose his services. I for one have found it fascinating seeing all the rare bits of kit he has unearthed from goodness knows where!
I agree that his comment was illadvised. Something like "Wow that's a really good price for that item, what a bargain" would have come across a lot more positively whilst pretty much saying the same thing. Regardless no one deserves to be crucified for one loose comment.
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Just in case it's not clear. There were very few people in that thread questioning the quality of Red's service or the prices he chooses to charge. More than anything, that point needs to be clear.
And, tbh, I don't think he was "crucified". It just might appear that way because more people disagreed with what he done than agreed - so with his own responses he was kind of swiming against the tide.
Let's not make him into a martyr. I for one have appologized for letting the discussion escalate into something it shouldn't have and I'm sure many others feel regret. But the sense of responsibility shouldn't be one sided.
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I thought I would throw a few pennies on here...
I have dealt with Red several times and he is a stand up and honest seller. Yes he does need to make a small profit, otherwise why bother? He offers a service and everyone needs to accept that the prices he might sell things will be higher that what you might expect from a garage sale, thrift store or someone on Amibay, etc. As far as his comment on it was way too cheap. So what? He was right, it was. Nothing wrong with that comment. Now if it was shown that he indeed has tried to no avail to scarf up cheap Amiga gear to price gouge and resell, then that would not be good. But I don't believe he has been doing that as his prices are very reasonable. I am sure most people would like to make a small profit in reselling anything. I hope he stays on here.
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arkanoid wrote:
Just in case it's not clear. There were very few people in that thread questioning the quality of Red's service or the prices he chooses to charge. More than anything, that point needs to be clear.
And, tbh, I don't think he was "crucified". It just might appear that way because more people disagreed with what he done than agreed - so with his own responses he was kind of swiming against the tide.
Let's not make him into a martyr. I for one have appologized for letting the discussion escalate into something it shouldn't have and I'm sure many others feel regret. But the sense of responsibility shouldn't be one sided.
I think you need to read that thread again. There were quite a few comments aimed directly at him, painting him to be some sort of capitalist monster, bleeding the community dry. It was way out of line and far from the truth.
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darrin: Well, to be fare, when you enter a thread shouting "double the price!" and then proceed to mock the idea of fare "community prices", labelling them as "communistic", that's the image you tend to paint for yourself.
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And, tbh, I don't think he was "crucified". It just might appear that way because more people disagreed with what he done than agreed - so with his own responses he was kind of swiming against the tide.
In retrospect using the word "crucified" was a tad strong. You did kind of jump on him though. Talking about red and "screwing the last penny out of the community" in the same post was bound to make him angry. He wants to make a profit on his sales but screwing the last penny out? I don't think so.
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Ruud: yep, and I have already apologized for making _my_ initial point in a less than diplomatic way. I should have made my point in a less inflammatory way, I guess. Although I don't apologize for the actual point itself.
I doubt you will see an apology from Red, however.
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wayne wrote:
I dare to suggest that we might not see red around here much any more.
I will surely miss the occational "project" treads by red.
Interesting to read about the C128 tower project from a person with knowhow and skills to do so...
Inspiring read i must say.
I really hope he do not leave.
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arkanoid wrote:
darrin: Well, to be fare, when you enter a thread shouting "double the price!" and then proceed to mock the idea of fare "community prices", labelling them as "communistic", that's the image you tend to paint for yourself.
I'm not saying the inital post was right, and it was not the sort of thing to do when 2 people have reached an agreement, but mocking the way he makes a living by suggesting he's a crook is far worse.
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pyrre wrote:
I will surely miss the occational "project" treads by red.
Interesting to read about the C128 tower project from a person with knowhow and skills to do so...
Inspiring read i must say.
I really hope he do not leave.
His CD32/Indivision is up for sale too.
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His CD32/Indivision is up for sale too.
I saw the link.
And it is sad, really sad.
Hope he changes his mind soon.
[color=ff0000]DON'T LEAVE US[/color]
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Darrin wrote:
There were quite a few comments aimed directly at him, painting him to be some sort of capitalist monster, bleeding the community dry. It was way out of line and far from the truth.
Actually red fired off the word "communist" first in that thread. And as a fellow American I can tell you that throwing that out at someone else is going to generally be taken as taking the gloves off when you are from the USA. That was a harsh comparison to make on those who just felt his comment of "waaay too cheap" was inappropriate given his reseller and moderator status. If you are going to go into hardball mode like that so quickly and easily, wearing "capitalist" as a badge of honor, on a board that has members from all over the world, honestly what do you think is going to happen next?
As I said before I think people should have asked him for clarification on his initial comment first before the multi-paragraph upset responses. But then when he came back as he did as mentioned above it became a given that it would be further discussed.
And tons of people keep vouching for him, so why leave? Its not like he isn't greatly appreciated by a bunch of folks.
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Who ever did waht and got retaliated by some...
can't we all just "kiss and make up" and be friends and grow our mutual interest and hobby...
And just have fun.
use our energy on what minimig project is next?
What does it really matter now...?
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ffastback wrote:
Actually red fired off the word "communist" first in that thread. And as a fellow American I can tell you that throwing that out at someone else is going to generally be taken as taking the gloves off when you are from the USA. That was a harsh comparison to make on those who just felt his comment of "waaay too cheap" was inappropriate given his reseller and moderator status. If you are going to go into hardball mode like that so quickly and easily, wearing "capitalist" as a badge of honor, on a board that has members from all over the world, honestly what do you think is going to happen next?
You don't need to tell me, I live in Louisiana. :-o
However Red stated that he wasn't a communist in that he wasn't a charity and that this was his business. He didn't all any of you a "communist", just that he wasn't one. Then suddenly he's a capitalist and just in case anyone feels there's nothing wrong with being a capitalist, a few people then spell out that he's "gouging the community" and is not doing it any service. Go back an read the comments, I just did. Just like a pack of hyenas, about 4 people round on Red and start nipping away, and unfortunately you were one of them. It was also your initial attack that set the whole tone, although it's also obvious that you were trying to get a point across rather than go on the attack. Things just got ugly and really out of hand after the "email" incident.
As I said before I think people should have asked him for clarification on his initial comment first before the multi-paragraph upset responses. But then when he came back as he did as mentioned above it became a given that it would be further discussed.
Yes, you should have. ;-)
And tons of people keep vouching for him, so why leave? Its not like he isn't greatly appreciated by a bunch of folks.
Perhaps it's because he has feelings and takes a pride in being an honest eBayer. You said yourself that he was probably too honest for his own good, but that's Red and that's why we like to do business with him.
While you've had the decency to apologize, these are others involved in that witch-hunt who are probably giggling away at their keyboards and congratulating themselves on a job well done.
I think if it had just been the buyer, seller, you and Red posting in that thread then it would have been cleared up in a civil manner in 1 page.
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ZeBeeDee wrote:
/me gazes into his crystal ball and can foresee redrumloa hanging up his amiga cables and disposing of all stock, never to be sold or sourced again.
Lets hope everyone will be happy on that day should it come to pass (might be sooner than we think if this carries on) ... yet another source of miggy hardware assigned to the history books and internet search engines *sigh*
taunusand wrote:
Oh no :-(
Look at this EBAY (http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-new-Commodore-Amiga-CD32-STB-Computer-UNUSED-NOS_W0QQitemZ120357533218QQihZ002QQcategoryZ4598QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262)
.... I've lost interest in all things Amiga.
This is sad news! :cry:
Sometimes, it just doesn't pay to be right ...
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It was also your initial attack that set the whole tone, although it's also obvious that you were trying to get a point across rather than go on the attack.
I didn't post in that thread until page #2 and well after the people involved were arguing. So WTF are you talking about?
Yes, you should have.
Again, WTF. I had nothing to do with the direct exchange between the parties involved.
Perhaps it's because he has feelings and takes a pride in being an honest eBayer.
So do people who maybe don't want to be accused of being odd religious fanatics about their hobby by a moderator here when it was un-called for. And maybe as grown men they won't take kindly to being called "junior" and told to "Grow the F up, junior." And that gutter talk came from red first and only from red. If you want to protect your feelings you start by being respectful of the feelings of others as well. Plus he is a mod for Christ sakes! Arkanoid has apologized. Red (IMHO) should man up in turn so this stupid episode can be buried and everyone can move on.
While you've had the decency to apologize, these are others involved in that witch-hunt who are probably giggling away at their keyboards and congratulating themselves on a job well done.
Ah, so you are confusing me with arkanoid?
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ffastback wrote:
Ah, so you are confusing me with arkanoid?
Doh!!! Yes, sorry!!! It's those bloody blue butterflies!!! :crazy:
Sorry, sorry, sorry!!! I need a smilie that sticks its own foot in its mouth.
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@ Darrin
(http://forums.mg-rover.org/images/smilies/footinmouth.gif)
:lol:
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ZeBeeDee wrote:
@ Darrin
(http://forums.mg-rover.org/images/smilies/footinmouth.gif)
:lol:
ROTFL. Perfect! Thanks. :lol:
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:lol:
well ffastback said most of what I would have wanted to say anyhow. So, no need for futher input. ! :-)
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Doh!!! Yes, sorry!!! It's those bloody blue butterflies!!!
LOL! :-D
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Sad. He really didn't need to make the inital comment that he did. He also didn't need to get jumped on about it like he did. Just a clash of two opposing paradigms.
If he was a truely evil capialist, he would have bought the card and sold it on eBay for twice the price. I see it all the time with garage sale items and some on freecyle. Talk about community abuse!
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I've had to edit this dreadfully AWFUL and MATURE post to reflect the rest of what's been said.
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Don't worry everyone, if red and amigakit close down, there's always Doomy!
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Am I the only one thinking "Doomy" jokes are getting old by now?
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save2600 and Arkanoid are you the same user?
I just noticed, there are several occassions where you write with one minute in between?
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riccofl: that's scraping the barrel a bit isn't it? you'd be better off asking Wayne that question as he has the records of all our IP numbers. :roll:
and the answers no.
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ok, just a fair question.
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@ redrumloa, save2600 and arkanoid.
Grow up, show you are mature enough to make up and be friends again.
red, stay with the Amiga community it needs people like you. Although I have never bought any parts from you I have seen only good reports from them that have.
clint
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There's no attempt by me, or anyone else to manipulate the situation, and I really didn't want to rehash it.
Admitting fully that he was the first one to turn on the gas for the flame fest, Red -- like everyone else -- just has a breaking point as to how much crap we'll put up with for the sake of this community.
I wish I could claim to be innocent in all of this. I really do. As probably one of the few who can actually claim over 15 years experience with this community, time and time again, I see someone who's trying to do something positive for the community (even AI themselves several years ago) only to get shat upon by the fanboys and zealots alike.
I've done my fair share of damage to the community, no doubt. Moreso than most I'm afraid, but it just hurts me to see someone who's trying to do ANYTHING positive only to be shot down without remorse.
Then, it's interesting to see those who did the shooting come out from behind their cover and wonder why their favorite targets are now "dead" to the community.
I for one, wish Red hadn't made the decision he did. I wish he hadn't have lit the original fire either, but the proverbial cat is out of the bag and is now laying dead on the floor, as should this subject be.
Maybe he just needs time to get his life in order, maybe (hopefully) it's just a phase or something and he'll be back, but you've only got one more dealer to kill, then everyone's seemingly obvious goal of stomping out the embers of the smoldering fire that was once the Amiga will be accomplished.
... anyone wanna buy a slightly abused web site while you're at it?
Wayne
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I think we like our Amiga.org a bit weathered. I also think Jim will be back. He's left before, after all. High prices or no, he's a reputable seller. Unfortunately for Jim, I'm a capitalist consumer, and AmigaKit often had better prices, exchange rate and shipping included. :-(
And because I feel like answering unasked questions, I also want to note that as an American, I take no offense at being called a communist. It isn't 1965, and people are free to call me whatever they want. (But why do so many so-called right-wingers behave like fascists? The spectrum needs a facelift.) I dont' want anyone to get the idea that all Americans are members of right-wing militias itching to shoot at anything red and moving (no pun intended). Most of us are pretty open minded and able to carry out an objective discussion without feeling disgruntled. (Note, that last statement doesn't include noteable talking heads: Nancy Grace, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, et al. They're all nutters--on their shows, at least, and that's how everyone perceives them.)
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@Wayne: I'm scared to say much more, even in the form of an extended apology; in case I get yet more people taking the original argument out of context and wanting to ram a rod down my spine for not feeling sorry enough to commit suicide.
I think things are way beyond the original argument with Red now. It seems the only purpose of the continued banter is in trying to explain to others (who had nothing to do with the thread) why the argument started in the first place and the reason why people were agitated. But that seems like a hopeless task, so I for one will quit fanning the flames and just hope this mess fades away.
I really hope Red reads the apology I gave and somehow understands that, at least for my part, there was no real malicious intent involved and it certainly was not about him personally. Hopefully he will even appreciate to some degree why people were upset.
There's absolutely NO reason for him to leave the Amiga community, as far as I see he has no enemies - just people that disagree on certain things and you find that in all areas of life. And most of us don't just quit life.
ah, well, that's my very last word on this.
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arkanoid wrote:
@Wayne: I'm scared to say much more, even in the form of an extended apology; in case I get yet more people taking the original argument out of context and wanting to ram a rod down my spine for not feeling sorry enough to commit suicide.
Seriously, there's no need to feel that you (or anyone else) has to say anything else.
I feel bad for rehashing the subject. I know Jim stepped into it with his initial comment, but I hate seeing anyone, particularly one of the few reputable dealers left getting slammed.
What we need to remember here is that there's more to this site than just the Amiga. Real life sometimes throws curveballs, and EVERYONE always lets those problems intertwine with what's said on this site.
Case in point, Jim might have had a bad day that day, or he may have just said something off-the-cuff not expecting ANY of the harsh reaction he got. We all have days like that. The difference is, do we politely disagree with one another, or do we start with the insults?
Wayne
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I dont' want anyone to get the idea that all Americans are members of right-wing militias itching to shoot at anything red and moving (no pun intended). Most of us are pretty open minded and able to carry out an objective discussion without feeling disgruntled.
Why would anyone get that idea? I'm a liberal on most issues. Still "communist" is generally considered insulting when thrown at anyone who is not actively calling themselves that in the first place. Communism is not the same as socialism. Communist nations tend to go to extremes of poverty for some and usually are guilty of multiple human rights violations towards their own people.
I also want to note that as an American, I take no offense at being called a communist. It isn't 1965, and people are free to call me whatever they want.
Really? Absolutely whatever they want? Even if it isn't true? God bless I guess. :-)
Anyway, not looking to make this into any thread continuance thing as its going off-topic. Just wanted to clear up my meaning if it was at all mis-understood.
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... anyone wanna buy a slightly abused web site while you're at it?
I've got 7 beans to trade.... maaagic beans. :lol:
In a more serious note.... there were some serious accusations leveled at Red. I'd be upset also if similar suggestions were made about me. Debate the appropriatness of his comment all year long and that's fine. But the other accuastions and account banning based on them, was wrong IMHO. Lessons learned I hope.
Also for any one who thinks I or any one else not allowed to make profit in a hobby market, I say bunk! It's done everyday in collectibles, classic cars, sports cards, movie memoriabilia, hamster farming ..... on and on and on... Picking on Red specifically for turning dollars (or Euros) in the Amiga community is off the mark. Unless it was proven that he's done something illegal, unethical, or even down right dirty then it's time to get over the fact and move on.
With so much non-news, bad news, vapor news in Amiga land, it's not suprising these type threads snag so much attention, we're bored I guess.
Plaz
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What a shame, I've always seen Reds online prices as fairly reasonable.
One less place for me to look for stuff I guess.
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This'll really drive prices up!
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I've just read both these threads. I.. I don't know what to say.
I thought the war was mainly on the platform side, not paradigms like the ones we witnessed.
This is why I don't like using the Internet for discussions like this - terrible medium for getting your point across without sounding like a complete di*k at the same time.
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I'm 100% in agreement with Red. Max money for Amiga stuff. I wouldnt give it away.
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I think the real issues here is there are a lot of people out there that are overly sensitive to the reselling of Amiga gear at high prices on eBay. Some view any reseller as trying to price gouging and profit at all means. Everyone wants that rare Picasso IV or that DKB 3128 for $40, and when they can't get it they get upset. Yes Amiga prices can be very high and some items are out of reach for some. But if you are a reseller and want to make it worth your time you will have to try to make some kind of profit. Some whine and complain if people sell things for what they are worth. I'm sorry but if anyone has problems with these resellers, just keep it to yourself. If anyone had issues with Red you should see some of the resellers actions out there! The Atari Jaguar community has this one guy who all he does is bid and buy rare gear and immediately throws it on his eBay store for 3 times the price! This has driven up prices really bad and has caused a lot of problems. That is not right and I can see where that would piss off everyone... I am glad that we do not have anyone like this in our community.
I hope Red takes this all with a grain of salt and decides to stay with Amigas, if he doesn't it is his choice and will do what he will do...
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There is not a single Amiga saviour. OR two. Or three. Since this hobby is not to be worshipped (as we've all been told before), lets not mince words.
Most people in possession of Amiga gear (ex dealers, ex hobbyists, ex video production users, ex Amiga zealots, etc)., are simply NOT going to be throwing their old hardware in the landfill. Amiga hardware WILL continue to find its way to Amiga enthusiasts from here 'til eternity. Ex-Amiga enthusiasts and users are fully aware of ePay, Craigslist, Amibay, Amigaworld, Amiga.org, etc. We REMEMBER what we paid for this stuff in the first place. Most of us bought it for more than we could have paid for a comparable PeeCee or Mac item - relatively speaking, FOR A REASON.
The absolute worse that can happen here is that prices for obsolete Amiga hardware comes back down to earth. GREED is what got Commodore where they are today.
I don't go to an estate sale, see a price for a Model A and tell them that their price is too low. Who in the Mac and PeeCee community are buying 15+ year old computer equipment at these prices?? (laughing out loud does not even begin to describe my feelings here)
WHO?
And why would they? And why would they not??
-snip- the ramblings of a tired and decrepit old Amiga user already. lol
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Sorry, but you're not comparing apples to apples here.
Look at vintage cars. Would you laugh at someone who bought an ancient Ford from the 1920's, for instance? Even if the price was similar to that of a modern car?
The PC computers can not be compared to the Amigas and Ataris.. not even to the Sun Microsystem or Digital Equipment machines. They are rare, they are different, they still have this "fun" aura about them. So what if I can buy a dual 500MHz XEON system for X money.. if I can pay a little more and get a QUAD 100MHz SPARCstation 20.. with 2GB of ram and some SBUS cards..
We ARE from another planet.. this isn't just some piece of hardware, it's a piece of life.
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X-acto is not just a name-O.
Just trying to prove a point. Which you once had (read back). Then lost apparently.
Hopefully, you have most of it back again...
And yes, SOMEONE *could* poke fun at another for paying an absurd price for something they never get to use in a practical sense. But what was your point? That was one of the points of contention with Red. C'mon... don't need to be arguing with the choir now, do we?
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save2600 wrote:
Just don't ask yourself why, when you bring up The Amiga computer to someone, they look at you like you're a dolt from another planet. Perhaps they know something we don't ;-)
I don't wonder.
I assume they read something like this.... or the other thread.
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It's hard to see who's responding to who in this forum :(
I know the original point, a professional seller letting off an inappropriate remark. However that wasn't the point I tried to make here.
I wanted to make it clear that the comparison you did to the PC and Mac forums, just isn't valid. You can never compare us (well, maybe against the vintage PPC stuff) cause the PC boards aren't that interesting or special to begin with.
THAT's my point, and that's all I'm trying to get across.
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@ Reflect:
The point *IS* valid. Almost all points are valid here. Don't you see? We're all {bleep}ing about nothing and everything at the same time. It's all petty. I'd love to be done with this. But then, someone like you comes out of the woodwork,
MIS-dissects a sentence and moans some more. It'd be great if the last thread died. But it didn't. I apologised, but I came back and saw that MOST people still don't get it. This thread, like the last one, has turned into something absurd.
Gosh - I'm thinking about selling off ALL my Amiga stuff right about now... LOL!
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save2600 wrote:
People in possession of Amiga gear (ex dealers, ex hobbyists, ex video production users, ex Amiga zealots, etc)., are simply NOT going to be throwing their old hardware in the landfill. Whoever proposed that unlikely scenario needs more experience in life, ePay, Webforums, Usenet and the like.
/me waves his hand. Uhmmm, I would, and have. And I have been given much grief about it.
The bottom line for me is that I have had, and still have, equipment that I cannot get people to take for just shipping. After a few years of not being used and not being able to give it away, I toss it. It makes me sad to do so, but it has to happen. I simply cannot be storage for someone who might one day decide he or she needs some piece of kit that I have. I absolutely refuse to be one of those sad phuqrs with a storage room or table full of stuff at the flea market.
And I just do not have the time to put things up on eBay anymore. I did once before, started all of my auctions at $0.01, and many of them still did not sell.
So I, for one, would and have thrown Amiga stuff away. And I've been called names for it by many of the same people who still would not take my stuff for shipping. (And I am not interested in enumerating what equipment I have left right now... if I had that time available, I might put them up on AmiBay or eBay.)
:horse:
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Plaz wrote:
With so much non-news, bad news, vapor news in Amiga land, it's not suprising these type threads snag so much attention, we're bored I guess.
It is true! And it is sad that we lose more mature and disciplined members of the community all the time. We all, myself included, have much to learn.
Happily, I do not see anything like this in the TI community.
Someone needs to hit the lottery and bail out the Amiga. Can I send my request to Congress? :crazy:
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Just when you think the Amiga community can't sink any lower.. :-(
Reds posts were great, his gear was well priced and he even gave us here a chance to grab things before it went to ebay and other sites.
I really hope he doesn't leave! :-)
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Wayne wrote:
... anyone wanna buy a slightly abused web site while you're at it?
Wayne
How much do you want for amiga.org?
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cv643d wrote:
How much do you want for amiga.org?
Considering the 15 year investment, more than anyone wants to offer, but half of what I used to.
Wayne
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Can we close this up now please?
@Redrumloa; don't leave over a little bickering, it happens. I give everyone involved the permission to go and have a beer and forget about it.
@Others; Look back at red's posts, 99.9% of them are genuinely interesting amiga posts. Once he's gone there will be a higher percentage of toss from the idiots who still like to bang on about A.inc next year, blue and red wars etc.
@Wayne; Waaay too cheap ;-)