Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: gurthuk on January 03, 2009, 01:54:18 PM
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I'm wondering whether to upgrade my Kickstart ROMs and Workbench to 3.1 or above but...
I don't need access to a CD drive as nothing comes on CD-ROM these days, I don't even use the drive in my Macbook.
I don't need a browser on my Amiga as I have Internet & web access elsewhere.
I'm going to be using a CF / IDE adapter in my A1200 instead of true hard drive, I don't need a file system to support 40 Gigs - 2 Gig will be plenty.
Am I missing anything important which could a good enough reason to upgrade?
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CDs and Internet work just fine with Kickstart 3.0. That is, download CD-ROM drivers and networking software from Aminet or buy it separately. It is just that with OS 3.9 you have everything on one CD but other than that OS 3.9 is pretty much useless to you.
CD-ROM (and CDs in general) is pretty much dead these days, indeed.
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There is always a good reason to update software/drivers to the latest version. 3.1 is worth it. This way you are OS 3.9 ready as well.
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Some prefer not to mess with things that already work fine.
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Oh noes! It's not broke... Must fix it! :hammer:
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Doesn't sound like you need 3.1 to me. OS3.9 is ok, but for an A1200 without an accelerator and graphics card I'd rather use the shell and a decent file manager like DOpus :lol:
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at the time I was softkicking 3.0 on my A2000 but I only ever considered it a stopgap for 3.1.
I have to admit I didn't have a specific reason to move to 3.1. To me it just felt like 3.0 was some sort of beta while 3.1 was the finished product.
With an 020 or 030, 3.1 is the end of the road - 3.5/9 should only be considered when using an 040 or better 060.
Hope this helps
Tom UK
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Actually 3.0 IS broke - so the upgrade to 3.1 makes all the sense in the world.
But having said that, if you're not really doing anything - but playing games, 3.0 might get you thru....
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motrucker wrote:
Actually 3.0 IS broke - so the upgrade to 3.1 makes all the sense in the world.
But having said that, if you're not really doing anything - but playing games, 3.0 might get you thru....
I often hear that 3.0 is buggy but never really encountered them in all the years I used it. What are the known bugs?
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For one thing, the AGA chipset only uses the fastest memory fetching on the highest resolutions. On 3.1 it uses the fastest memory fetching whenever it can thus making the chips run faster. If you're playing games you'll get better performance much of the time with Kickstart 3.1 .
For another thing the sprite handling is broken for using AGA enhanced sprites on Kickstart 3.0 .
That's just 2 bugs in graphics.library alone that make the Kickstart upgrade worthwhile.
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@SamuraiCrow
For one thing, the AGA chipset only uses the fastest memory fetching on the highest resolutions. On 3.1 it uses the fastest memory fetching whenever it can thus making the chips run faster. If you're playing games you'll get better performance much of the time with Kickstart 3.1.
99% of the games bypass the OS completely and thus this is hardly ever true.
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As I understand it the games may bypass workbench but would still be accessing files from the kickstart in order to run.
Therefore the most efficiently and least buggy ROM would be better surely.
Or have I missed something?
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@r0jaws
As I understand it the games may bypass workbench but would still be accessing files from the kickstart in order to run.
Therefore the most efficiently and least buggy ROM would be better surely.
Or have I missed something?
Kickstart doesn't have files.
Pretty much none of the fixes in 3.1 have effect on game performance or functionality. KS 3.0 and 3.1 have zero speed difference from HW hitting game perspective.
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@gurthuk
You only live once! and If you want to enjoy your Amiga to the max. Get Kickstart 3.1 and Workbench 3.1. In my opinion and experience....the Best Amiga OS ever made.
Also get a 68030 @50mhz
This is the best Amiga Config.
I learned something a few years ago.......That there will be one day where I will leave the Amiga. And I want to know I did everything I could with it. You will never have that chance again as parts get older.
I have some of the rarest software and hardware for the Amiga on the Planet.
Just recently aquired a Copy of the Elusive Music Mouse. So Glad I finally got it. Also have the Rare MindEYE with MindLIGHT7/Visual Aurals. So Happy about that.
I also Have MediaPoint with Manual and CD. I payed Very high prices for some of these. But I got them when I wanted them. As opposed to things I searched for years and finally found...but the prices I thought were too high.........well now I see clearly that TIME is MONEY.......I wish I could buy back my time and own those things even if I had to pay high Prices.
The Amiga is a Wonderful Machine, and I will abandon Any machine over it no matter how much the other machine costs.......at least until I abandon the Amiga permanently.
I loved my time with the Amiga.
Dont waste anymore time.....get KS 3.1 and WB 3.1 heck even get OS3.9.
Totallly worth it. WHo or what else will support your machine if you yourself dont even accept and buy the software thats amazingly available for it?
We are lucky to have OS3.9! and MSN messenger and WookieChat, and Indivision, Subway USB! wow.
Dont waste your Amiga time letting your Amiga just sit there with the same specs..........thats ike a person going through his life and never growing....staying in the same Rut and mud all his life.
Give your Amiga Life!
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I'll stick with 3.0 as that is how I remembered it as a kid. I'm certainly not buying an accelerator either as they're very expensive with no obvious gain.
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An accelerator is certainly gonna make a big difference, even for hardware banging games, cause it will allow you to use WHDLoad to install the games to HD. Most games require some extra ram when installed with WHDLoad, the accelerator will provide that.
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I am thinking the same thing... I just got a real cheap A1200 motherboard with kickstart 3.0 off ebay as well as a 4meg RAM upgrade board (much much cheaper than an accel.).
My plan is to have a 'simple' A1200 with more or less the following setup:
A1200
CF-IDE adapter with CF card
Workbench 3.1
4meg RAM upgrade
All it will be used for is to play WHDload games.
I assume Kickstart 3.1 isnt needed?
Thanks!
E'Blue
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I have a bit of fast ram underneath on a card I bought years ago, it will suffice. As for squeezing in expensive bits of kit and cutting holes in my case I'll give it a miss. I don't need a frankenstein machine.
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itix wrote:
CDs and Internet work just fine with Kickstart 3.0. That is, download CD-ROM drivers and networking software from Aminet or buy it separately. It is just that with OS 3.9 you have everything on one CD but other than that OS 3.9 is pretty much useless to you.
CD-ROM (and CDs in general) is pretty much dead these days, indeed.
What planet are you on? CD-ROM is still the standard format for software along with DVD
CD's are the standard for music.
Am I missing something here? The only time you wouldn't need CD is when using free downloadable software
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Nostalgiac wrote:
at the time I was softkicking 3.0 on my A2000 but I only ever considered it a stopgap for 3.1.
I have to admit I didn't have a specific reason to move to 3.1. To me it just felt like 3.0 was some sort of beta while 3.1 was the finished product.
With an 020 or 030, 3.1 is the end of the road - 3.5/9 should only be considered when using an 040 or better 060.
Hope this helps
Tom UK
I use 3.9 on my 030/40 with AGA no problems
As long as you got the 030 and plenty of fast RAM you are fine
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Music - mp3's and iTunes.
Woolworths sold CD's, look at them. Zavvi have gone tit's-up too.
Look at the state of the music industry as whole. It's taken a man in a black polo-neck who makes hardware to save them.
The movie industry isn't far behind, DVDs are dying. Hulu from Fox and NBC is a direct response to their falling sales and 'online' threat.
Microsoft has opened a 'download' shop where you can buy and download full priced apps.
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gurthuk wrote:
I'll stick with 3.0 as that is how I remembered it as a kid. I'm certainly not buying an accelerator either as they're very expensive with no obvious gain.
"with no obvious gain." :-?
What? I disagree.
It will be much easier to play games, WHDLoad :-)
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I didn't see any need to upgrade to 3.1 myself, as all my games and other commonly used software ran fine under 3.0, however I picked up a spare 1200 with 3.0, and I got a good deal on 3.1 roms and figured why not? (all incompatable stuff could still be run on my spare 1200) However, I also upgraded to os3.9 from 3.0, and alot of software I found on Aminet (limpidclock comes to mind, which I use daily, and am developing an arexx script to sync this with the date manager on my palmpilot), which made me happy I did so. Some older software (workbench 1.3 stuff) broke, but didn't run very well on 3.0, as well as some games. WHDload has solved any problems I had with the games, as now I can run them on 3.9, and off my hard drive, and preserved my games from the bitrot that has plagued many of the originals. Also, when I upgrade to a tower and gfx card, 3.9 is going to be much more compatable with this. Also, I use alot of network programs on my 1200, and its still my primary computer for everything from resume/document writing, school work, and general web browsing/email/video and photo work, etc... So the only problem I have is with various video/animation progs from again the 1.3 era. (AniMagic and Scala being the biggest problems, and Scala just can't acces the dongle in the joystick port for some reason) Deluxepaint IV, PPaint, Adpro, and ImageFX still work fine, and the sview5 package on Aminet has adpro and imagefx loader/saver modules that include all the file support that previously prevented me from using them. If you do upgrade to 3.1, I would recommend saving the rom image from your original 3.0 chips in case one of your games breaks under 3.1, and download/register whdload as well as the whdload installer for that game. As far as using a cf card, I believe 3.0 will still recognize it, but I've never tried this myself. (Been thinking of it, though, my only problem with this is they seem to have a limited amount of write passes to the card, and write time is slower) If you do need more than 4gb, I think SFS still works under 3.0, but you'll want to check the website for that. I think it does require 3.1 to load into the rdb block for an automount, but thats the only problem I can forsee there. As with all things Amiga, it really depends on what you plan on doing with your computer, and if 3.0 fulfills your Amiga needs, I would stick with it, though 3.1 and up is nice to have for little odds and ends with an AGA computer. (ECS as well, I believe)
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I don't know all the specific version changes from 3.0 to 3.1 though many of the new features are in this thread. However, as a software developer myself, I think it's safe to say that new versions of software almost always include some bug fixes that may or may not be advertised. Programmers are always finding things they or others did stupidly when going back to some software to add new features.
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and introduce a few more for good luck... he he!
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taunusand wrote:
gurthuk wrote:
I'll stick with 3.0 as that is how I remembered it as a kid. I'm certainly not buying an accelerator either as they're very expensive with no obvious gain.
"with no obvious gain." :-?
What? I disagree.
It will be much easier to play games, WHDLoad :-)
Why is it easier to play WHDLoad games with Kickstart 3.1?
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I think he meant that it's easier to play WHDLoad games with an '030 accelerator.
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Why? Some extra RAM should suffice.
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That depends on how much extra RAM you need. If you need more than 4 megs and a network card or more than 8 megs and no PCMCIA support, then the added memory addressing of a proper accelerator board will help.
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I was a developer with CATS. I have both the originally provided 3.0 and 3.1 kickstarts. I have had an Amiga 1200HD now for years with an '030 accelerator. I have never had a really good reason to load Kickstart 3.1.
Most of the time my OS has been KS 3.0 WB 3.1 and it worked together fine. While I don't dispute anyone's issues that there is issues with the 3.0 graphics.library I still have never found it affecting my use of the machine.
Addressing high amounts of memory on an Amiga has never been a need of mine, and I admit I don't try to adapt classic hardware to modern hardware needs. Everything I loved in terms of classic software already works great. I am also not one to play that many games on it. If I did, I'd probably get an emulator out anyway and start tweaking on PC hardware.
While I think most posters are giving good advice here, I am a good example of someone who bucked the trend and never had to replace the 3.0 rom. Of course I can "RAM KICK" any version I pleased.
I am just saying the advice given here shouldn't be so millitant. I certainly haven't limped along by not doing it, and I really do know the differences in the ROM, down to EXEC modules..
PS MY 3COM PCMCIA ethernet card works fine with 3.0 in ROM as well as any CDROM filesystem out there..
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Everblue wrote:
taunusand wrote:
gurthuk wrote:
I'll stick with 3.0 as that is how I remembered it as a kid. I'm certainly not buying an accelerator either as they're very expensive with no obvious gain.
"with no obvious gain." :-?
What? I disagree.
It will be much easier to play games, WHDLoad :-)
Why is it easier to play WHDLoad games with Kickstart 3.1?
I did not reply to that ;-)
SamuraiCrow wrote:
I think he meant that it's easier to play WHDLoad games with an '030 accelerator.
That is exactly what I mean :-)
Yes, more memory will do, but I think it's easier to find a 030 card than it is to find a RAM card. At least, I have had 3 acc. boards for my A1200, but I have almost never seen a RAM card for A1200 here in Denmark.
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gurthuk wrote:
I'll stick with 3.0 as that is how I remembered it as a kid. I'm certainly not buying an accelerator either as they're very expensive with no obvious gain.
3.0 to 3.1 is really no obvious gain unless you want to use a drive > 4GB; however, an accelerated 1200 compared to a stock 1200 makes the world of a difference in almost EVERY aspect!
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klx300r wrote:
gurthuk wrote:
I'll stick with 3.0 as that is how I remembered it as a kid. I'm certainly not buying an accelerator either as they're very expensive with no obvious gain.
3.0 to 3.1 is really no obvious gain unless you want to use a drive > 4GB; however, an accelerated 1200 compared to a stock 1200 makes the world of a difference in almost EVERY aspect!
I'm sure you meant this but to clarify 3.1 of its own doesn't give access > 4 gig drives, you need 3.9 for that and to use 3.9 I *believe* you need 3.1 and not 3.0..
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When I was using my A1200 as my only machine, upgrading seem to make a lot of "hacks" like fblit and ftext and quite a few other utilities on Aminet work more reliably. i can definately say i had far less guru's when i got 3.1
I didn't play a lot of games though so may be 3.0 is fine for that with 4 meg ram.