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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Gaming => Topic started by: motorollin on December 31, 2008, 05:06:35 PM

Title: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2008, 05:06:35 PM
During my time off Uni I've been working my way through Lemmings 2 again. Once I've finished it, I've been thinking of going back to the original Lemmings, but I don't think I could bear to do it now I've got used to fast forward :lol: So I was wondering whether it would be possible for the WHDLoad version of Lemmings to hack a fast forward mode? Maybe it could monitor a keystroke which would toggle the frame rate of the game between normal/double? Can WHDLoad do that?

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moto
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: bloodline on December 31, 2008, 05:13:13 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
During my time off Uni I've been working my way through Lemmings 2 again. Once I've finished it, I've been thinking of going back to the original Lemmings, but I don't think I could bear to do it now I've got used to fast forward :lol: So I was wondering whether it would be possible for the WHDLoad version of Lemmings to hack a fast forward mode? Maybe it could monitor a keystroke which would toggle the frame rate of the game between normal/double? Can WHDLoad do that?

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moto


L2!!! A great game... :-)

Hmmm, think the processing required for the 100 ok screen lemmings of the original was actually quite extreme... I wrote a lemmings clone back in the day, and it was very CPU/Blitter intensive... So adding a fast forward mode probably would be limited to the Chipset/CPU speed... But if you were serious about this maybe someone could patch out the VBL waiting code... :-/
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2008, 05:17:51 PM
Quote
bloodline wrote:
L2!!! A great game... :-)

After all these years, I have once again become totally obsessed by it! I have just finished 7 tribes, all with gold medals on every level :afro:

Quote
bloodline wrote:
Hmmm, think the processing required for the 100 ok screen lemmings of the original was actually quite extreme... I wrote a lemmings clone back in the day, and it was very CPU/Blitter intensive... So adding a fast forward mode probably would be limited to the Chipset/CPU speed...

L2's fast forward seems to work really well, and there's probably more going on in that than in the original due to all the new skills and traps.

Quote
bloodline wrote:
But if you were serious about this maybe someone could patch out the VBL waiting code... :-/

What's VBL waiting code?

Edit -
Ahh, Vertical BLanking. I guess changing that would adjust the amount of time between frames?

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moto
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: bloodline on December 31, 2008, 05:22:42 PM
In L2 there were much less lemmings per level :-)

VBL = Vertical Blanking Line, in your main loop you have a small price of code that waits for interrupt 5, that synchronizes the display with the gfx and gives you silky smooth gfx... At the expense of limiting you to 50fps and ensuring that everything has to be completed in 25ms :-)
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2008, 05:27:19 PM
Quote
bloodline wrote:
In L2 there were much less lemmings per level :-)

True, but it varied in Lemmings 1. Some levels only had 10 :-)

Quote
bloodline wrote:
VBL = Vertical Blanking Line, in your main loop you have a small price of code that waits for interrupt 5, that synchronizes the display with the gfx and gives you silky smooth gfx... At the expense of limiting you to 50fps and ensuring that everything has to be completed in 25ms :-)

So if you remove that from the loop could you manually control the framerate?

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moto
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: bloodline on December 31, 2008, 05:34:43 PM
Most levels in L1 had a lot more lemmigs than L2... It probably averages out to 90...

Well removing the VBL would allow the game to execute as fast as the hardware can run it (with really sh1ty gfx) :-)
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2008, 05:46:14 PM
Well an accelerated Amiga might be able to do it. Wouldn't it be better to control the framerate and make it double rather than removing the delay between frames and allowing it to go as fast as the hardware can go? Would such a change be possible with a patch to the WHDLoad slave?

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moto
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: bloodline on December 31, 2008, 05:54:17 PM
I guess you might be able to add a busy loop with a variable loop counter to control the rate... :-)

Anyway, no matter you will still be limited by the blitter :-)
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2008, 06:05:01 PM
Tell you what. If you make the necessary changes, I promise to stop being lazy and get on with my album ;-)

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moto
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: bloodline on December 31, 2008, 06:10:33 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Tell you what. If you make the necessary changes, I promise to stop being lazy and get on with my album ;-)

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moto


Hahahaha :-)

Without the source code I'd be stumped! It's been 15 years since I looked at 68k asm... Reading some disassembly would be horrific now... :-) I've even forgotten all my chipset reg offsets too :-o $dff180 is all I remember
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2008, 06:13:52 PM
$ddf180 sounds like as good a place to start as any! :-P

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moto
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: Naton on December 31, 2008, 06:32:35 PM
Don't forget to play through Lemmings 3D! :-o
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: bloodline on December 31, 2008, 06:39:07 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
$ddf180 sounds like as good a place to start as any! :-P

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moto


$dff180 if memory serves, is colour register 0... I used to poke random values in there to check if that part of the code was executed or not... simple debugging before we had things like GDB (I love Xcode!!!) :-D
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: bloodline on December 31, 2008, 06:39:37 PM
Quote

Naton wrote:
Don't forget to play through Lemmings 3D! :-o



I found L3D tedious... :shrug:
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: weirdami on December 31, 2008, 07:47:46 PM
I remember things moving a little bit faster when I scrolled so that all the lemmings were off screen.
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: bloodline on December 31, 2008, 08:22:31 PM
Quote

weirdami wrote:
I remember things moving a little bit faster when I scrolled so that all the lemmings were off screen.


Yeah, then you are not limited by the blitter... if you nuke the lemmings with all 100 on screen... watch the machine slow down to a crawl due to the shear amount of work the blitter has to do!
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: platon42 on January 01, 2009, 09:58:43 AM
I thought I'd hijack this thread for some blunt advertisment, just in case you didn't know :-)

I wrote a Lemmings 2 Level Editor twelve years ago (I think it was my last large 68k assembly language project) and the last release from 1998 includes 33 new levels for you to try. There are some pretty hard and tricky ones (e.g. "Good Luck, Jim!" in the shadow world). The last release comes with a free keyfile.

http://www.platon42.de/cgi-local/dynframe.pl?0000&download.html

Enjoy.

Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: weirdami on January 01, 2009, 11:24:11 AM
@platon42

What's the keyfile for?
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: platon42 on January 01, 2009, 12:14:22 PM
Quote

weirdami wrote:
@platon42

What's the keyfile for?


The editor once was shareware and the keyfile unlocks all features.
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: motorollin on January 01, 2009, 06:23:47 PM
@platon42
I downloaded your L2 Editor the other day actually, but I can't figure out how to get it to see my Lemmings 2 installation. When I installed it it asked me where my Lemmings 2 directory was. I pointed it at a directory on the hard drive containing the contents of all three floppies, but it said there was no Lemmings 2 installation there. There is no actual installer on any of the disks, so I can't work out what to do :-?

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moto
Title: Re: Fast forward in original Lemmings?
Post by: platon42 on January 01, 2009, 11:31:17 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
@platon42
I downloaded your L2 Editor the other day actually, but I can't figure out how to get it to see my Lemmings 2 installation. When I installed it it asked me where my Lemmings 2 directory was. I pointed it at a directory on the hard drive containing the contents of all three floppies, but it said there was no Lemmings 2 installation there. There is no actual installer on any of the disks, so I can't work out what to do :-?


As stated in the manual and the installer help and readme, the editor needs the HD patch provided by DMA Design. It can be downloaded from Aminet:

http://main.aminet.net/pub/aminet/game/patch/lems2HD.lha

If you place this archive inside the directory "L2Ed-Install", it will automatically detect this and opt to install Lemmings 2 to your harddisk, if you didn't already run the installation inside that archive.

Good luck! :)