Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: AllocVec on December 29, 2008, 04:35:21 PM
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I have a Blizzard 2060 for sale.
Turboboard for the Amiga 2000 from Phase 5 with 68060 (50 MHz)
Fully loaded with 128 MB of RAM
SCSI onboard
Fully working
I do ask EUR 300,- plus shipping. I am open for trade ins if you have anything to offer. I do not have to sell this card, but two Blizzard 2060 is one to many with little time for my hobby at the moment.
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BTW: the fastest way to contact me is directly via EMail: phase5@gmx.net
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Email sent! ;-)
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That card is mine, all mine Kin! Thanks for trying to beat me to it though ;-) lol
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Waaay too cheap.
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and a round of applause to Redrumloa for encouraging price hiking and trying to ensure that no one in the Amiga community gets a "good deal". :roll:
Red: ever considered that your prices maybe extortionate? 300Euro seems "very reasonable", and a good price. Not everyone's interested in screwing the Amiga community for every last penny that they can. It's a hobby, not a capitalist venture.
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Red, it amazes me how much you think this stuff is worth OR perhaps... what you sometimes get for your wares. I do not think $450 is "cheap" for a computer peripheral as outdated as this, without a regular warranty of any kind, etc. In fact, I think this stuff is rather expensive since I'm just looking for a faster WB experience and probably a bunch of headaches getting it to install and work with WHDLoad, TCP stacks, my large GB HD, etc. lol Many, many headaches and dollars spent investing in the Miggy - but all part of the "hobby" as we all know.
And you know what? I would bet you good dollars that say, after a while, if I wanted to sell this card - I would/could NOT get what I paid for it. Happens all the time in this community. Sometimes you get lucky, but most of the time, *I* have not. But WTF... I've only been using Amiga's since '87, so what do I know ;-)
Heck, I'm trying to sell my GVP 030 combo card to help finance this. What do you think *that's* worth? I have it priced at $180 with ram that was just bought from Softhut, etc. And it really bugs me when people say my stuff is not "worth" what it is. $100 for a combo card all day long on ePay + $80 in brand new, currently produced ram. Why should I take a hit on the ram when it is *brand new* and tested? (one of the simms were bad actually, and I had to get a replacement straight away). And no, these companies never refund for shipping defective products back to them. Since we are on the subject of nickels and dimes.
If *you* can get more for a card like this or my card, may God bless you and probably *has* been blessing you as you definitely seem to have the Midas touch that way.
If your post was designed to make me feel better about plonking down this kind of cash... somehow I still don't feel it's a "steal" :-) It's just something I've been wanting to treat myself to for a while and have finally taken the plunge. TekMagics seem to hover around the $500 mark and I've seen GVP's and others anywhere from $250-$450. Not at your store of course... unless they have been sold as broken :crazy: One could make a statement about the sanity or wisdom of some of your customers, but what the hey. This *is* just another "justifiable" hobby after all
:lol:
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@ Arkanoid:
Very well said, spot on and thank you. :idea:
I remember Christian (AllocVec) from the good ol' days of Usenet. Which, I might add, I would rather be using and miss dearly. The online experience is changing and from my vantage point - not for the better.
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i just want an upgrade card for my 1200 trapdoor. dam its hard to get one,
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The card is spoken for. Thanks to all who were interested.
I have some other goodies, which I will post next year.
Happy 2009 :)
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@arkanoid
This may be a religion for you, that is fine. I don't look at hobby computing as a religion. The simple fact is on the open market(eBay) he could have possibly got twice that much. 060 accelerators for the A2000 are very hard to come by.
What type of car do you own? What is the average auction price of that car? Tell you what, I will give you 30% of whatever the average sale price. Don't like that suggestion?
[color=ff0000]and a round of applause to arkanoid for encouraging price hiking and trying to ensure that no one in the car buying community gets a "good deal".[/color][/b] :roll:
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@save2600
I'm not a communist and I do not run a charity. What sense would it make for me to sell items at a fraction of their actual worth?
-edit-
BTW at today's exchange rates 300 EUR is 418.82. Lower than your guess of $450, but slightly higher than what was in my head. The USD has weakened in the last few weeks. ~3 weeks ago 300EUR would have been 372USD.
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Redrumloa:
The point is, Christian is a seasoned Amiga user. He's not naive and will be fully aware of eBay prices for Amiga gear - eBay is no secret.
There are still people who are happy to just "break even" when it comes to selling Amiga stuff, because most of us have day jobs and do not need to sell Amiga items purely to make a profit. It has nothing to do with "communism". We're just not all obsessed with accumulating as much $$$ (in every area of life) as possible.
For all you know, 300Euro may be exactly what Christian originally paid for the card and that may be all he's interested in recouping. But I'm sure if you managed to purchase this 060 card from Christian first, it'd appear on your eBay "shop" shortly after for 600Euro. That would have been a nice tidy profit for you, eh? Too bad a real hobbyist got to it before you.
"I'm not a communist and I do not run a charity. What sense would it make for me to sell items at a fraction of their actual worth?"
I can understand your vested interest in maintaining high prices throughout the community, but this is not YOUR sale. It's between two enthusiasts, so show a little decency towards the Amiga "community" and leave your money grabbing for eBay, pls.
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@ Red:
What sense does it make for you to chime in with a peanut gallery comment such as the one you made? "waaaaay to cheap".
Oh that's right... because you're an opportunist with an agenda that wants to ensure that ridiculous prices for this stuff keeps on flowing for *you*.
And no... we would never confuse you of running a charity. That's for darn sure ;-)
How would you like it if someone responded to some of your outrageous prices with: "waaaay too much"?? Or how about: "Red... why don't you give *something* back to the community since the community are often times the one that HELPS you out with hardware/software probs"? Getting free advice from experts or parts you need here, just so you can gouge ePay clients, is tacky to say the least (not saying you've done nothing for the community). Or dangling some of your wares around like a carrot, knowing full well they're going to ePay in seconds...
This topic has been beaten to death time and time again. Religion? Hell no. Reality and sensibility? Hell yes. You're on a much different wavelength than some of us, that's all. If you want to continue gouging all day long on ePay - then that is your right. Some of us just know better. Some are afraid to speak up. Some might even "worship" you. lol Or as I've said before... some of us are not as "resourceful" as you. Sometimes we can be though. Thanks for trying to ruin that for *some* of us. Who knows, maybe someday, you'll look back and feel differently about some of these things. We all do from time to time and its part and parcel to the life experience.
My apologies to everyone here that feel the need to continually suck up to Jim. I've not felt the need to behave that way since grade school :-D
BTW: the price that I "guessed" (even though I have a currency exchange widget - thanks) includes s/h to the States. Guess I got even a better deal, huh? And $800 or more for this thing? Are you frickin' kidding? I'll tell you what... when I get it, you list it in your 'greater than thou' store and when it sells for that much, I'll slip a $100 your way. Of course, we'll then have to figure out ePay's commission, PayPal's fee, the possibility the buyer scams us through PayPal - claiming it does not work, etc. Hmm... this scenario is starting to sound like a potential deal made with the devil! lol
8-)
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@arkanoid
So, are you selling me your car to me for 30% of it's actual value? Thought not.
I can understand your vested interest in maintaining high prices, but this is not YOUR sale. Show a little decency towards the Amiga "community" and leave your money grabbing for eBay, pls.
The guy who joined 2007/2/5 and has 132 posts is telling the guy who joined 2002/2/15 and has 8992 posts what decency is in the Amiga "community"? :crazy:
Grow the F up, junior.
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Wow, Red - you really do have a slanted view of things, huh?
Guess money grubbing will do that to you.
Quantity of posts<>decency no relevance whatsoever. Some of us joined later for different reasons.
And we're not talking about autos here. We're talking about a certain computer that DOES indeed hold a certain status/cult with most of its users.
Do you or would you hang out in an auto forum preaching your greedy economics? And then try to sell autos? Maybe you should. You're starting to sound more like a used car salesman by the minute.
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Redromola:
More like the guy who hasn't turned his leisure-time and hobby into an enterprise, telling the guy who clearly has.
I recently offered my Blizzard 030 for £105 on Amibay, in full knowledge that I could have got about £150 for it on eBay. Unfortunately, none of the users of Amibay wanted it. So I listed it on eBay and got £170. I put my money where my mouth is.
And, btw, "junior" - one of the clearest signs of immaturity is to consider money to be the most important thing in life.
:roll:
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What sense does it make for you to chime in with a peanut gallery comment such as the one you made? "waaaaay to cheap".
Last time I checked, this is a discussion forum.
Oh that's right... because you're an opportunist with an agenda that wants to ensure that ridiculous prices for this stuff keeps on flowing for *you*.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. If I am getting so damn rich and is this so damn easy, why aren't YOU doing it for cheaper? Grab up all those lots of rare hardware and sell 060 cards for $50. Oh wait, that takes effort. Much easier to complain instead of taking initiative.
How would you like it if someone responded to some of your outrageous prices with: "waaaay too much"?? Or how about : "Red... why don't you give *something* back to the community since the community are often times the one that HELPS you out with hardware/software probs"? Getting free advice from experts or parts you need here, just so you can gouge ePay clients, is tacky to say the least (not saying you've done nothing for the community). Or dangling some of your wares around like a carrot, knowing full well they're going to ePay in seconds...
Another newbie storming in making wild accusations :crazy:
This topic has been beaten to death time and time again. Religion? Hell no. Reality and sensibility? Hell yes. You're on a much different wavelength than some of us, that's all. If you want to continue gouging all day long on ePay - then that is your right. Some of us just know better. Some are afraid to speak up. Some might even "worship" you. lol Or as I've said before... some of us are not as "resourceful" as you. Sometimes we can be though. Thanks for trying to ruin that for *some* of us. Who knows, maybe someday, you'll look back and feel differently about some of these things. We all do from time to time and its part and parcel to the life experience. My apologies to everyone here that feel the need to continually suck up to Jim. I've not felt the need to behave that way since grade school
You are obviously someone who has not read the posting guidelines (http://www.amiga.org/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=6). I'd think after 2 years you could get around to reading it. Personal insults are not allowed.
BTW welcome to my blocked bidder list.
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save2600 wrote:
And we're not talking about autos here. We're talking about a certain computer that DOES indeed hold a certain status/cult with most of its users.
That says it all, really.
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redrumloa wrote:
Much easier to complain instead of taking initiative.
"waaaaay too cheap" - you're the only one complaining. We don't post in your "FS: eBay" threads complaining that YOUR prices are too high. Yet you complain the moment you see someone sell an item cheaper than you personally would have sold it for.
Funny tho, I doubt you would have been complaining if you got to the card first. And I doubt the fact that you purchased it for half your asking price would have been mentioned in the listing either.
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arkanoid wrote:
Redromola:
More like the guy who hasn't turned his leisure-time and hobby into an enterprise, telling the guy who clearly has.
I recently offered my Blizzard 030 for £105 on Amibay, in full knowledge that I could have got about £150 for it on eBay. Unfortunately, none of the users of Amibay wanted it. So I listed it on eBay and got £170. I put my money where my mouth is.
No, putting your money where your mouth is would be to refund the difference to the high bidder.
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arkanoid wrote:
"waaaaay too cheap" - you're the only one complaining. We don't post in your "FS: eBay" threads complain.
Yet you complain the moment you see someone sell an item cheaper than you personally would have sold it for.
Funny tho, I doubt you would have been complaining if you got to the card first.
Did I ask to buy it? No. This is a discussion forum, and I made a off the cuff comment in passing. People usually make comments in discussion forums.
I don't buy single items off discussion forums for resale, but if thinking that makes you feel warm and fuzzy go with it. Did I complain? How can a 3 word posting be complaining? Again reading into it what you want to read into it.
And for the record, I get tons of complainers in my FS threads.
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redrumloa wrote:
No, putting your money where your mouth is would be to refund the difference to the high bidder.
Why would I do that? A far easier thing to do would have been for me to list it on eBay for the same price I listed it on Amibay (£105), but then that would have increased the likelihood of an opportunistic eBay "trader" (like yourself) purchasing and then reselling for a profit.
I listed it cheaply on Amibay first because, generally, only real enthusiasts use the site.
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Pot. Kettle. Black.
Your sentence of "waaay to cheap" is not a 'discussion'. It was a spiteful insult w/ an agenda perceived by anyone with any sense.
I'm blocked from your ePay auctions? Now you're really stooping and showing your maturity. Perhaps you're not as greedy as we thought since *my* money is longer "good". Oh well, no loss. No loss at all.
(using the example of 'getting around to reading the posting rules')... Mom! Red just blocked me from using eBay! Hmm... sure seems communistic to me. Didn't you just say you were not a communist?
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Redromola: anyway, I'm not going to continue arguing with you. I'm sure, deep down, you know that your initial snipe was wrong. It's just a pity that you lack the maturity to admit it.
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Lets all just take a breather here and have a good laugh:
(http://www.elf8.nl/jpg/fabia_small.jpg)
There, now don't you feel better?
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save2600 wrote:
I'm blocked from your ePay auctions? Now you're really stooping and showing your maturity. Perhaps you're not as greedy as we thought since *my* money is longer "good". Oh well, no loss. No loss at all.
Nope, you are exactly the type of person who would buy an item, get it in perfect condition at the price clearly listed, and then leave an anonymous poor star rating because you felt you paid too much. You've made it very clear what you think. I don't need customers like that, it harms my ability to do business.
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arkanoid wrote:
Redromola: anyway, I'm not going to continue arguing with you. I'm sure, deep down, you know that your initial snipe was wrong. It's just a pity that you lack the maturity to admit it.
Amazing, talk about pot calling kettle black!
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Red,
In response to you {bleep}ing about not getting rich and this NOT being an easy venture for you... do you really think you are helping a community out by buying low and selling high to *it*?
Nobody said or cares if your "job" is easy. That is totally irrelevant. In fact, in some ways, I'd say that YOU are counterproductive to this very hobby.
But I should stop there. There are those that agree, those that disagree and those that just don't care. I didn't mean for this to turn so ugly. Like I said, you are you and I am I. Different wavelengths on how we feel about things - obviously.
Only judgement here is that you make it obvious that you're an opportunist and your comment of "waaay to cheap" was totally uncalled for.
I still think, IMO, you should be in a business that offers higher returns. Instead of carrying on with a mentality that has plagued Amiga computing since its inception. Really. Since you seem to have a great handle on the economics of things, I think you'd choose to devote your time and effort on something more productive monetarily. Auto's and Real Estate for instance.
Unless of course, you're buying up large lots of Amiga gear for pennies on the dollar. Don't be insulted. The auto industry was and is forever grilled about how much money they make. Does anyone respect the American auto industry - especially since they begged for a handout we all know was and will be futile? Your defensive stance reminds me of the 3 execs flying in to Congress on their private jets. lol Just plain silly and an example of adults not knowing how to conduct themselves - no matter how many posts they may have contributed. lol
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save2600 wrote:
Red,
In response to you {bleep}ing about not getting rich and this NOT being an easy venture for you... do you really think you are helping a community out by buying low and selling high to *it*?
What the hell are you talking about? Again with the redrumloa is rich bit :lol: My kids have the right to eat the same as you kids, if you have kids. Again, anyone who thinks I am getting fabulously rich and what I am doing is so incredibly easy is a strange bird indeed. If it is so easy, why aren't YOU doing it for a more "community friendly" price? You too can get rich, but being more "fair".
Also you are still going on like I am buying single items from a discussion forum to mark them up on eBay. I can guarantee this is pure fantasy.
-edit-
Just re-read your post, did you edit it? I got a slightly different message second time around. I enjoy using and selling retro parts usually, except the rare times when people who are jealous or whatever start making wild accusations. The vast majority of my customers appreciate the service I provide (http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=redrumloa&ftab=AllFeedback&sspagename=STRK:ME:UFS). I do it for that reason, but I also believe in making a return on my investments.
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Quote from Red:
'Nope, you are exactly the type of person who would buy an item, get it in perfect condition at the price clearly listed, and then leave an anonymous poor star rating because you felt you paid too much. You've made it very clear what you think. I don't need customers like that, it harms my ability to do business.'
Red - that's total 100% BS. You do not know me and I would NEVER conduct myself that way to anyone - ever. You extrapolated something here that is totally out of line. It's sad you would lump me in with so many ePay {bleep}s these days. Same kind of stuff happens to me and I am not the kind of person to give someone a bad time there.
The reality of it is this... honestly, I've always thought of you as someone much like myself. Somewhat of a hobbyist that falls into things. Like to tinker, play around for a while and then resell with an MO that would allow me to further invest in whatever hobby. That's by and large, the main difference though and you've made that apparent. Me selling a few Amiga items here and there ain't gonna pay the bills. Nor would I ever devote that much time trying to get them to pay the bills. A lifestyle choice I guess. I watch your auctions and I've watched your posts from the late 90's to now. I know I've bought stuff from you before. These last couple of years though, I have witnessed a slightly different mentality. Not sure what the deal is (besides some of the obvious), but you're starting to show your true colours. Whatever the excuse is, whatever may be going on in your personal life. Fine. Whatever.
If you think it's appropriate to hijack someone's response in an unprofessional way - knowing full well many look to you for goods, then fine. Just don't be surprised if it starts happening to your posts. Most here respect you though. Enough at least, to let you and your fantastic prices be.
This thread has totally gotten out of hand. Can we just agree to disagree here? Sorry if you feel you're being picked on (probably hasn't happened in a while and you're uber defensive now) but I'm sure you're a big boy. Especially since you've got 9000 posts under your belt. Or are my calculations wrong? lol Sorry - couldn't resist.
Happy frickin' New Year Red! May you continue to be so prosperous selling Commie stuff in 2009. :-)
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Quiet you two - it's New Years eve !
People ask and pay whatever they want.
Tom UK
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For those who missed out and are still looking for an A2K 060 card (or any other amiga gear really), the next few months should be more "buyer oriented" on ebay for those who have the cash to burn. This year may even be better than last, considering the market crash... and for US buyers, we don't have to worry (as much) about the Europeans buying all our gear for mere pesos. ;-)
Last January-ish, several A2K 060 cards sold for around the $300US mark - very irksome for me, as by summer they were back up to $500-600, when I was finally looking. :lol: IIRC I paid around $400 for my TekMagic (cheers amigadave!). Seems ridiculous for old hardware, but the fun is 100% worth it.
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Also you are still going on like I am buying single items from a discussion forum to mark them up on eBay. I can guarantee this is pure fantasy.
In theory though the higher others sell them for the better you can justify a similar price for when you next sell such an item. In that vein of thinking its in your interest to keep market prices high. So long as that price point does not infect your bulk supply chain.
The above is not any type of accusation. I just think this is the point more that was trying to be made by the other posters.
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These last couple of years though, I have witnessed a slightly different mentality. Not sure what the deal is (besides some of the obvious), but you're starting to show your true colours. Whatever the excuse is, whatever may be going on in your personal life. Fine. Whatever.
Starting to show my true colors? You keep thinking that if it makes you feel better. I sleep good at night, real good. I have never ripped off a single person, period. They know what I am offering, period. They know they will get what is offered in the condition offered. They know if something goes wrong, I make it right even at a loss. Has anything changed over the years? No, not really. On the selling side I am exactly the same, only my packing material quality has gone up.
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redrumloa wrote:
Starting to show my true colors? You keep thinking that if it makes you feel better. I sleep good at night, real good. I have never ripped off a single person, period. They know what I am offering, period. They know they will get what is offered in the condition offered. They know if something goes wrong, I make it right even at a loss. Has anything changed over the years? No, not really. On the selling side I am exactly the same, only my packing material quality has gone up.
Perhaps the change Save2600 senses is that you're applying a more "professional" approach - what with the increased quality in packaging and (if I'm not mistaken) your recent opening of an official eBay Store? I've never purchased from you and never would at your prices but, from what I can gather, you seem to have a good reputation as a seller. If your intentions are to evolve your "business" into something like the American equivalent of Amigakit, then great! Your current rep. should be a good foundation to build on and the premium you charge (as Amigakit do) to cover the costs involved in a more professional outfit would be fully justified and valued by many.
I think you just need to be a little more sensible and realize that not everyone in the Amiga community is running a business based on it. You can't and shouldn't want to compete with transactions between enthusiasts, otherwise you'll annoy people who will only see your intervention in terms of what ffastback outlined above.
Do your business a favour by taking a leaf out of Amigakit's book and try not to compete on the same level as transactions between individual enthusiasts. Amigakit justify their prices by offering outstanding service and professional guarantees which they're known to honour, not by piping in on personal For Sale threads and basically moaning that the seller is selling cheaper than they do.
Whether that was what you were doing or not, doesn't really matter. That's the way it will be interpreted.
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Gentlemen,
Let it go. Buying selling is an event when one persons asking price is met with anothers willingness to accept the price asked. Which is what occurred between AllocVec and Save2600, and by the way Save2600 congrats on getting a great card and to AllocVec for getting what you asked for the card.
I have bought several items from redrumloa and have been very please with the expeditious and quality packaging of the items and the price paid. I would not hesitate to do business with Red in the future.
So, I see two folks happy about a sale, and another who made a comment about the price based on past sales of that item (or similar) that went for much more. Nothing personal at all, just my perception.
My two cents - (I do believe that is a fair price) :lol:
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Thanks Firedawg, I look forward to playing around with this card and hope it breathes new life into my A2000!
-D- said it perfectly in his observation that these types of cards HAVE gone for much less at different times of the year. And they have. What I paid is somewhere in the middle to be sure.
I cannot remember ever commenting in between a seller and potential buyers on the level that Red did (although I've had something to say once or twice about someone overpaying, especially when I've offered the same thing for less... lol). Very offensive, especially when someone has been looking for an "affordable" solution. Reminds me of when I was a teenager and my best friend liked the same gal I was rooting around for... LOL! There's a phrase for that kind of behaviour... :madashell:
And 'Arkanoid' is right about my observation of the professionalism. I really don't have it out for Red. Precisely why his unprofessional response left me a little flabbergasted. Have looked upon him as being more of a "high-end" dealer. Great stashes and the like that personally, I have not 'wanted' to afford since gradually becoming an adult with a different set of priorities. Many of us know that sooner or later, much of this stuff can and does find it's way VERY cheaply or 'fairly' into our laps. It's the nature of the hobby. Which is why Red's comment was counterproductive - since it was inserted into a forum where after 9000 posts and all the experience that comes with said posts, he should know was going to be met with many of the responses he received.
Oh well. Time to move forward and enjoy New Years Eve. I've now got a good sized headache that can only be cured by some Hacker Pschorr right about now :pint:
Cheers all!
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I agree, for a seller this was way out of line, almost rude. It's an attempt to make the seller aware of how much he could have gotten.. but, what you CAN get is often directly linked to your patience.. if you don't want to endure an auction etc, this is quite disappointing, and I expected more. Much more, as I've looked up to redrumloa..
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After reading all the bollocks in here & for what it's worth, I'm rather glad we have a different Moderator Policy over @ AmiBay.
@ All
I'd just like to point out a couple of things though, which are meant very impartially.
One, as a Moderator, I would have thought it more mature not to price drive, particularly as you are in this market to feed your family. Incidents like this don't bode well for said income! - Word gets around.
Second, just because someone has 2 or 3 thousand posts over someone's 100+ does not make them better people. Indeed, from my experiences on A.org, an awful lot of Fan Boys hang out here with massive post counts & yet just about every post I see them make is flaming someone else's post or calling them a c*nt!
At the end of any day, something is only worth what another is willing to pay, but ass raping the community will only get you in trouble eventually.
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Kin-Hell, since I've "known" you here and on Amibay, you've always been on the fairer sense of things - IMO & that's great.
But too much censorship is not good. With the mild (and somewhat appropriate) censorship such as found here, the community gets a chance to see for themselves who and what people are all about. For better or for worse, whether it's in my favour or not (always hope it is though). We may then better choose who we'd like to trade with. Great example: the feedback ratings on ePay are now meaningless, thanks to their ridiculous new policies. Give me freedom of speech or give me more beer until I am fat, happy and don't give a hoot! lol
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Kin-Hell wrote:
Second, just because someone has 2 or 3 thousand posts over someone's 100+ does not make them better people. Indeed, from my experiences on A.org, an awful lot of Fan Boys hang out here with massive post counts & yet just about every post I see them make is flaming someone else's post or calling them a c*nt!
I think red's point was that he is more likely, by the date of his joining here and his post count, that he would likely have a better handle on what the community at large views as fair and decent behavior than someone who may have been less involved and for less time. Unfortnately his comment immediately after that ("Grow the F up, junior.") might make many readers miss the point I think he was attempting to make. Whether its a valid point or not I don't think he was saying more posts equals a better person as you say he did.
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ffastback: well, I guess he could have just been saying "hey, I've been around here longer and so have a better sense of what is acceptable behaviour", but I doubt that. Kin-Hell hit the mark I think.
The old "more posts" = "more important" is a common response from people on forums, particularly if they think they're losing an argument. Basically I think he was saying that he's more important and his opinion is of greater value than someone with posts in the 100s. Add to that the fact that he's a mod and, well, anyone that's been around Internet forums (in general) for as long as I have will know exactly how some forum moderators tend to have delusions of grandeur(despite the fact that it's actually the regular USERS who make a forum successful, more so than mods)
but there you go, I'm a junior who hasn't posted as many "eBay For Sale" items...what do I know.
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ReDrum and I have had many disagreements over many things large and small but we remain what I like to think of as friends. Granted, he has never spoken to me like he has to some of you in this thread. On the other hand, I've never spoken to him like you people have. It's funny how that works, isn't it. I just made him an offer for an item last week that he chose to ignore. Do I think any less of him for it? Of course not. He and I obviously had a different idea of the items value. Do I think less of him because we have a different idea of an items value? Of course not. How stupid would that be. Anything I have ever bought from him was exactly as stated in his listing and it arrived to me fast. I value very highly being able to know what I get from him is what I expected.
As far as blocking bidders, I also do it all the time. If I even suspect anything, they are blocked. I have blocked many members of the Org because of attitudes I sense because of their posts. It's not worth taking a chance of a hassle developing. A seller has the right to block anybody that they wish for any reason.
Dan
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IMO - you should think less of anyone that ignores an offer and vice versa. If it was a totally inappropriate offer, you can at least call the guy any one of the colourful metaphors quickly at your disposal OR counteroffer. Ignoring someone is immature to say the least.
Ignoring people via e-mail is a trend that more and more people mistakingly use to their supposed "advantage". It's rude and your parents should have taught you better! lol So there you have it. A higher standard type of thing. Again. Don't get used to it. It's not acceptable. At least, it should not be acceptable.
In the case of blocking my bids... is pretty fitting as the pieces fall together here. If Red thinks he is "punishing" me by blocking my bids, well - maybe he will be able to sleep that much better at night. lol
Honestly, the only people I have had to block was when I would sell PeeCee or Nintendo stuff. Soooooo many more scammers aligned with those platforms. Yes, I am profiling. It is not a crime. Insurance companies and creditors do it all the time ;-)
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Arkanoid wrote:
'The old "more posts" = "more important" is a common response from people on forums, particularly if they think they're losing an argument.'
...which is precisely why *some* of us took as long as we did to bother to set up yet another user name and another password for something that should have NEVER strayed from comp.sys.amiga.xxxx in the first place. We knew what this web based stuff was all about, who it caters to and many continually prove our point. As was done with MANY Hotmail and AOL users time and time again from the 90's. As Red well knows.
Lot's of immaturity going on in these new web based forums. Drunk with "power", censorship and the whole bit. Ironic when you think about it. Many of these web based fanboys voted for "change"... LOL!!!
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I just made him an offer for an item last week that he chose to ignore. Do I think any less of him for it? Of course not. He and I obviously had a different idea of the items value.
Someone purposely ignoring you if you provided them with considerate communication, and especially if they know you, is not something to proudly say you are of course not offended by. At the least one should think that rude.
Anything I have ever bought from him was exactly as stated in his listing and it arrived to me fast. I value very highly being able to know what I get from him is what I expected.
No one seems to have disagreed with that, at least not that I saw.
As far as blocking bidders, I also do it all the time. If I even suspect anything, they are blocked. I have blocked many members of the Org because of attitudes I sense because of their posts. It's not worth taking a chance of a hassle developing. A seller has the right to block anybody that they wish for any reason.
True, but its interesting that a public display was made of it. Its only natural that the party would then respond in the thread after being banned/blocked.
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If I held a grudge everytime I made an offer on an item and the listing ran out a day later without the seller getting back to me I'd be a pretty sorry person (Which 2 of my ex-wives would agree with). There are a million reasons why someone might not accept or reject it.
1. They didn't see it
2. They were still thinking about it when the item ended
3. They had several offers to weigh
4. They didn't want to limit their options
5. They thought that having an open offer might make someone else offer more or use the buy-it-now out of fear the open offer might be accepted.
6. etc., etc., etc......
As I said, it was no big deal to me. I'm not as good of a mind reader as a lot of you seem to be and I wouldn't even attempt to pass judgement on someone over something so trivial.
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dannyp1: I'm not really sure of the point you're trying to make here. No one is saying that Redromola is a bad trader. I don't think a single person has implied that.
What people are objecting to is him promoting price hiking/gouging in a sale between two, non-commercial enthusiasts - because the price didn't match what he would hope to charge based on eBay "market forces" to maximize profits.
I think you need to reread the entire thread, to get a clearer sense of what's being said. Unless you can defend him based on what is actually being said, then Redromola doesn't require your (fanboy?) "support". As I said, no one is saying he's a bad trader, far from it.
If anything, he's just a bit low on good old fashioned decency and regard for "community spirit" - unless of course it involves some form of profit.
If you read his comments, you'll see that he has absolutely no regard for the Amiga's sense of non-commercial community spirit and even mocks this idea as "communistic". He's touched a nerve, because (since all the big money men and real commercial interest has disappeared) the little future that the Amiga has left relies on maintaining some sense of goodwill and community spirit. Things will not continue ticking over for the Amihga with purely MONEY in mind.
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I'm not trying to defend anyone because no one needs defended. I guess I'm the only one here who doesn't see a problem with someone stating their opinion that someone else sold something too cheap.
I had a few other things to say about saying people lacked decency because they stated an obvious opinion but I see it didn't take you long to edit your previous comments. I'm fairly sure they were read by people other than me before you had a chance to read what you had written and cram the old tranny in reverse.
If stating a couple of my opinions in a thread makes me a "Fanboy" I don't need to tell you what people will be calling you after reading your comments. I'm not quite sure how I became your target as I didn't say anything bad about anybody. And you think your comments are helping to keep the community alive?
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dannyp1 wrote:
If I held a grudge everytime I made an offer on an item and the listing ran out a day later without the seller getting back to me I'd be a pretty sorry person (Which 2 of my ex-wives would agree with). There are a million reasons why someone might not accept or reject it.
Ah, now you seem to be referring to any old random ebay auction you were interested in and within their Best Offer system. Earlier you seemed to be saying that you sent a traditional offer to your friend redrumola on something you knew he was interested in selling. Those are two very different scenarios. Thanks for clarifying. Of course though, now the question is, what point were you trying to make? What does that have to do with anything?
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dannyp1 wrote:
I guess I'm the only one here who doesn't see a problem with someone stating their opinion that someone else sold something too cheap.
Yes, I think it's safe to say that you're probably among an extreme minority of people who sees nothing wrong in a trader posting in a thread where an item has been offered and claimed for purchase, and telling the seller that he is telling it too cheaply. You're right.
dannyp1 wrote:
I had a few other things to say about saying people lacked decency because they stated an obvious opinion but I see it didn't take you long to edit your previous comments. I'm fairly sure they were read by people other than me before you had a chance to read what you had written and cram the old tranny in reverse.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here. If you mean that you were reading my post as I was editing it and noticed something was changed moments later, well that happens. It's called rewording what you want to say in order to get your point across clearly.
dannyp1 wrote:
If stating a couple of my opinions in a thread makes me a "Fanboy" I don't need to tell you what people will be calling you after reading your comments. I'm not quite sure how I became your target as I didn't say anything bad about anybody. And you think your comments are helping to keep the community alive?
I didn't call you a fanboy, I suggested that you MIGHT be, and I wasn't the first to make that call. Internet forums are full of fanboys, who jump into discussions defending certain people (particularly mods, or other people they "like") without really reading and fully understanding the points being made. So to make that call is not wrong.
You're not a "target", I just responded to your post in disagreement.
Apart from hinting that you MIGHT be a fanboy, in what way are my comments negatively impacting on the Amiga's community spirit, exactly? Be specific and quote an example. I'm not sure if my comments are "helping to keep the Amiga community alive", but I think you need to reread them and not jump to conclusions.
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-- edit --
OMG, this has goone all foobar.
save2600: Thanks for your edit.
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The point I was trying to make was that ReDrum and I often disagree on the value of Amiga items and we don't end up at each others throats because we disagree. Did I really have to explain that? I just reread my post and it still seems obvious to me what I was saying.
I will rephrase what I said earlier: If threads like this are helping to unite and strengthen the Amiga community, I'd hate to see one that was trying to tear it apart.
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by dannyp1 on 2008/12/31 20:51:25
I guess I'm the only one here who doesn't see a problem with someone stating their opinion that someone else sold something too cheap.
If the seller is happy then there is no such thing as selling "too cheap". I think the comment was taken as it was because the account that posted the comment is a well known vendor on the board. Meanwhile from his perspective he probably was posting as the individual. But given he is a vendor all of a sudden a hopefully innocent sharing of one's opinion can easily look like you are trying to influence the market. From there it went downhill quickly unfortunately is my take away.
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dannyp1 wrote:
The point I was trying to make was that ReDrum and I often disagree on the value of Amiga items and we don't end up at each others throats because we disagree. Did I really have to explain that?
Apparently you did. Are you trying to say that I lack ready comprehension skills?
Back to your point, now that you have clarified it. red did interject in a deal both parties were already happy with with an off the cuff remark, and he is a dealer with a vested interest in keeping the market at high prices. You can hire your brother-in-law to fix your house, but if you are mayor of your town you better be careful giving him the job to fix city hall as well, even if he is the best and cheapest for the job. Perception plays a role like that in life. Thats just how it is. Perhaps you should give some leeway to the other side of the disagreement as well. It did not help things that red escalated with implying a curse word, and tossing out a term like that person they were disagreeing with some whippersnapper either.
I will rephrase what I said earlier: If threads like this are helping to unite and strengthen the Amiga community, I'd hate to see one that was trying to tear it apart.
I'm not sure this exactly tears the community apart. We are adults and some people shared their peace on the subject. Thats all. I will tell you this though. My personal opinion is that high prices keep the more casual enthusiast out of the hobby more. And more numbers of people would probably be better for the community in the end. Instead you have a smaller community of hoarders. Even the USA has proven quite clearly recently that its not a pure capitalist state.
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One guy is actually trying to sell a piece of gear here. Let him do that in peace and stop making unrelated noise in his thread. That goes for everyone, mods other and me.
My understanding is terms were already agreed to. I don't believe anything is left for sale, not since very early in the thread.
5) I don't really know anyone involved in this thread. And I don't want to take any side but this: You're all in the wrong.
For sharing opinions everyone is in the wrong, except you sharing your opinion? :lol:
He needs some of the protection and benefits that eBay provide that AmiBay cannot
What does this have to do with his commenting on a sale he was not involved in on amiga.org? Nothing as far as I can tell.
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LOL!
What a thread, what a thread! :-o
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:popcorn:
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and women watch soap operas :lol: ahh come on Red..you messed up just admit it and move on ;-)
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save2600 wrote:
LOL!
What a thread, what a thread! :-o
It gets better!.......
After a couple of well biatchy Emails from red, I am now a member of his Bid Banned collective.....
Despite being poilte & telling him he was WRONG to say:
redrumloa wrote:
Waaay too cheap.
Oooooooh! :lol:
It's almost like:
Ner Ner.... ner-ner-ner! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Kin, OMG - are you serious? You too are banned?? :-o
-edit-
I almost do not know what to say at this point. Seems if anyone disagrees with Red or tries to interject with a superior or different moral compass, you're going to get banned.
I'm starting to think something else is going on here. Medication issue perhaps. Stress. I dunno. It's all very weird. Hate to see it continue, but if it's going to...
Linky to Crazy Eddie commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yYGoO5imyY)
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Yep, here's his Email:
----- Original Message -----
From: "redrumloa"
To: "Kin Hell" xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: Picasso IV plus shipping to UK
> Anyhow, happy new year and welcome to my blocked bidder list.
>
> Jim
PMSL!! :lol:
*edit* Email removed
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Against my better judgment, here I am. If you are going to be an ass and post something out of context, including publishing my email address, at least be complete.
----- Original Message -----
From: "redrumloa"
To: "Kin Hell"
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: Picasso IV plus shipping to UK
> >From an "absolute "Darling"" to "ass raping the community", eh?
> > Thanks a lot, bud. I expected more from someone like you.
> > Jim
> > > On Fri, 2008-11-07 at 15:57 +0000, Kin Hell wrote:
>> Hi Jim,
>> >> Didn't you ever send it with a LOW value! - 10 Bucks! - Didn't pay a
>> thing at the door or up front which is the usual thing. It just
>> arrived! :D
>> >> Thanks ever so much for this. You are an absolute "Darling".
>> Thanks again for sending as you did. I'm really tickled.
>> >> Very Best Wishes to you with Kind Regards,
>> >> Charlie
>> >> Charles Leach
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Well if that's the way this thread is turning:-
[spits dummy (pacifier) out]
No fair red, I wanna be in your Bid Ban List too! If that's how ya treat potential customers - you lost this one before I even started....oh....Happy New year All.
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Nice one Jim. Now you really have gone & shown the World what a total Asshole you are
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Kin-Hell wrote:
Nice one Jim. Now you really have gone & shown the World what a total Asshole you are
Do you really not have the ability to look in the mirror? You publish a private email including my email address and everything is great. I do it and I'm a total asshole. Think about that, if you can.
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Hey!
I know it's NOMB but it's New Years day. What are the chances we can all call it even, be friends again, and let this thread RIP? This is a great place to hang out and 2008 has been VERY hard on everyone. Perhaps the new year will be better for all.
Cheers!
-Jeff
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In a perfect world - YES, there's certainly some apologies that should be made. But it's not enough to just say "I'm sorry". Behaviours and attitudes clearly need to be changed and this business of blocked bidders is completely and utterly childish. If the acceptable business and personal MO is to be immature, manipulative, controlling and degrading to the Amiga community, I'm surprised certain people have lasted this long here. Honestly.
Okay Red - you go first...
lol
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Perhaps you should look in the mirror too Jim.
But then if you did, you would realise all you had to do was apologise to Christian Publicly like I said to you privately via Email.
There is nothing else you could do since you "Gobbed Off", so be my guest! - Carry on digging a hole!
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Kin-Hell wrote:
But then if you did, you would realise all you had to do was apologise to Christian Publicly like I said to you privately via Email.
There is nothing else you could do since you "Gobbed Off", so be my guest! - Carry on digging a hole!
From what I can make out of him so far, an apology's pretty unlikely. That would mean having to eat a little humble-pie and his head seems too big for that.
He'll probably pull a classic moderator move and "Close the Thread" (tm) or ban the lot of us, before he's 6ft under. . :lol:
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Still some time for grace I would think...
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Back to the basics:
300Euro is a quite normal price for a B2060 in europe, maybe a bit on the low side, but far from being "waaaaay to cheap".
Running into such a thread with that remark was just as uncalled for as other people running inot red's auctions claiming his goods were overpriced.
People wanting to sell should be allowed to set their own prices and the market should decide wether it's hot or not.
Such behavoiur is IMO only acceptable if prices are waaaaay out of line, like a noop selling rare stuff for pennies or someone selling a "rare" A1200 for 500Euro.
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in the defense of Red, I've bought from him a couple of times, and he's been very reliable and prices very reasonable.
I know he doesn't do what he's been accused of doing. I never saw him buy from a forum member. He gets his stuff from local Amiga groups in the US, or collectors who quit and their sell stuff in bulk cause they can't be bothered to sort and sell them individually. sometimes drives long mileage to get them. I never saw him get something and pump it more expensive later.
Some of the stuff he sells appearantly he doesn't know what it's worth. Like those 2 meg A500 upgrades. He's more into 8 bits I guess, and maybe misguided by some ridiculously overpriced ebay auctions. After all it's very hard to put a price on this hardware since none of them are being made anymore (well some of them are being made, but they're not our concern atm) and everyone have their individual values for certain stuff (like for me I get an A500+ + 1mb chip exp anyday instead of the 2mb chip ram upgrade and also end up with ECS denise. but someone desperate to upgrade their a2000 could justify the price for 2mb chip ram boards.)
I believe what he posted he posted to help the seller sell his stuff, thinking it was a good deal for the buyer. I'm not sure if he implied if it should be sold for more or something. But then English is not my first language and I may be interpreting it wrong way.
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I don't see what all the fuss is about. This is a free and open forum where everyone is entitled/encouraged to share their opinion(s) and that's what red did. By the same token, it's perfectly reasonable for those who disagree with him to express their opinions. What I don't care for is the suggestion that he hasn't got the right to share his opinion or the unnecessary aspersions being thrown his way. Methinks I smell some sour grapes.
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I think this thread is interesting from the point of view that the initial controversial comment wasn't "OMG! 300 Euro? Way too much! That's highway robbery!" for a change!
It's actually quite amusing that the controversy in this thread has been started by someone stating the opposite opinion!
:lol:
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gklinger wrote:
What I don't care for is the suggestion that he hasn't got the right to share his opinion or the unnecessary aspersions being thrown his way. Methinks I smell some sour grapes.
I think if we look at what happened here you see a series of quick escalations here. It probably would have better that red had been asked what he meant in his post first before the multi-paragraph responses to his single line post. But then you also have red immediately coming back implying one party is a nut who treats his hobby as a religion and that the other may be a communist. So the gloves came off pretty quickly there.
I think its correct to say red has the right to share his opinion. But I also think its correct to think that when you are an Amiga dealer that posting in such a manner is going to be taken in an entirely different light than any 'ol individual.
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Redrumloa wrote:
"I'm not a communist and I do not run a charity. What sense would it make for me to sell items at a fraction of their actual worth?"
OK then, so you are a big-time capitalist, who has nothing but contempt for the members on here and tries to screw every last nickel out of them, unless you are buying; does that sound closer to the mark?
Oh, by the way; based on your comments here, your account has been frozen over at Amibay, until you can explain your ideas of capitalism to the Admins via PM, along with how they would benefit our members at AmiBay, to our satisfaction.
Regards,
WotTheFook (aka Merlin)
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McVenco wrote:
:popcorn:
ditto! :popcorn:
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Zeb, you're a F'kin Beauty m8y...you really are! :lol: :-D
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Kin-Hell wrote:
Zeb, you're a F'kin Beauty m8y...you really are! :lol: :-D
I know but don't tell everyone will ya?
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WotTheFook wrote:
Redrumloa wrote:
"I'm not a communist and I do not run a charity. What sense would it make for me to sell items at a fraction of their actual worth?"
OK then, so you are a big-time capitalist, who has nothing but contempt for the members on here and tries to screw every last nickel out of them, unless you are buying; does that sound closer to the mark?
Oh, by the way; based on your comments here, your account has been frozen over at Amibay, until you can explain your ideas of capitalism to the Admins via PM, along with how they would benefit our members at AmiBay, to our satisfaction.
Regards,
WotTheFook (aka Merlin)
Let's just hope he hasn't got several accounts on Amibay, using them to buy things up cheaply from the rest of us dirty communists and later selling them on through his shop.
Not saying he HAS, but ya never know. Particularly with a capitalist minded "businessman" who seems to have very little regard for decency among the community.
:-?
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Let's just hope he hasn't got several accounts on Amibay, using them to buy things up cheaply from the rest of us dirty communists and later selling them on through his shop.
Not saying he HAS, but ya never know.
I understand completely. Say, when did you stop beating your wife?
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I didn't say he HAS, I said it's something to consider and maybe keep an eye out for. There's a lot of good people on Amibay, selling stuff at good prices. But on the other hand there's a lot of opportunists out there.
The fact that Redromola is a trader and even has an account on Amibay probably means he'd have no problem buying things cheaply at those "community prices" he's mocked in this very thread.
And as for your analogy, if you knew a guy who's ex-wife divorced him on the grounds of battery. And then you suddenly saw his new wife with black eyes...wouldn't you suspect something was up?
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Let's not get this out of hand, hm? The original comment was underhanded, it wasn't appropriate. Later there was some heated feelings, but now it's just getting silly.
Btw, does AO allow people to edit their posts without it being shown in the posts? Cause when I read this thread a couple of days ago, it looked a lot more hostile than now..
edit, test..
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reflect wrote:Let's not get this out of hand, hm? The original comment was underhanded, it wasn't appropriate. Later there was some heated feelings, but now it's just getting silly.
reflect: Ok, so maybe it was wrong to say he might have another account. That was baseless speculation by me.
But he does have one known Amibay account and I think it's good that it has been frozen, just on the grounds that he obviously does not agree with Amibay's idea on fair prices. Unless, of course he's buying.
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arkanoid wrote:
The fact that Redromola is a trader and even has an account on Amibay probably means he'd have no problem buying things cheaply at those "community prices" he's mocked in this very thread.
:roll:
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-D- wrote:
arkanoid wrote:
The fact that Redromola is a trader and even has an account on Amibay probably means he'd have no problem buying things cheaply at those "community prices" he's mocked in this very thread.
:roll:
Yes, reread it, it's flawless logic. :roll:
Which is probably why Merlin has frozen his Amibay account.
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arkanoid wrote:
Redromola:
More like the guy who hasn't turned his leisure-time and hobby into an enterprise, telling the guy who clearly has.
What is worse is that as well as being a profit-driven company out to make as much money as possible, Redrumloa is also a moderator.
I believe these two roles should not be combined.
Redrumloa is clearly the single most greedy and price-hiking entity on this forum. I strongly disagree with his practice of buying out lots of amiga hardware and making a living from fellow amiga-enthusiasts.
Other people can say what they want, I just disagree completely with this practice, and I think combining this exploitary ethos with being a moderator on this board is highly questionable practice.
I fully expect this post to be deleted by the moderator Redrumloa.
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@ Arkanoid
Spot on, mate; the conflict of interest wasn't lost on Kin Hell or myself quite as easily as it may have been lost on others.....
IMO, Moderators shouldn't allow themselves to get into a position where they couls potentially mis-use their power for their own ends. Now, I am not saying this has happened in this case, before you all start sharpening your pitchforks; what I am saying is that his comment introduces an element of doubt about Moderator integrity.
An item sells for what the seller wants for it and what the buyer is prepared to pay, not some arbitrary market value set by a Moderator...
Red only had a Trader account so he could only sell and not buy items. The Trader account was deliberately created that way. AmiBay does have a system of checks and balances in place regarding these things behind the scenes.
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arkanoid wrote:
reflect: Ok, so maybe it was wrong to say he might have another account. That was baseless speculation by me.
Good to see you retracted what you said. There is no reason to inflame things any further needlessly. The ultimate goal should be reconciliation between those that got pissed at each other.
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(http://www.samandfuzzy.com/shop/shop/capl.gif)
heh
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@ Ideal
If the posts were deleted by another Moderator with an explanation then fine, however, I can't believe you would be happy with a Moderator deleting posts made about himself if he doesn't like what is being said; can't anyone else see the conflict of interest in this?
If Red deletes these posts, he would only be confirming what is already being suspected......
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Ideal wrote:
What is worse is that as well as being a profit-driven company out to make as much money as possible, Redrumloa is also a moderator.
I believe these two roles should not be combined.
Considering he uses the forums here to advertise for his business, I would tend to agree. Nothing against him personally. Even if he were universally well-liked its still probably not the best idea.
Redrumloa is clearly the single most greedy and price-hiking entity on this forum. I strongly disagree with his practice of buying out lots of amiga hardware and making a living from fellow amiga-enthusiasts.
In a way though isn't this a way for him to make a living from something he loves? No one has to sell to him and no one has to buy from him either. And plenty of individual sellers ask for crazy money. And plenty of greedy hoarders buy up multiples of what they already own keeping prices in general high.
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arkanoid wrote:
-D- wrote:
arkanoid wrote:
The fact that Redromola is a trader and even has an account on Amibay probably means he'd have no problem buying things cheaply at those "community prices" he's mocked in this very thread.
:roll:
Yes, reread it, it's flawless logic. :roll:
Which is probably why Merlin has frozen his Amibay account.
Red buys things for pennies on amibay and sells them for huge profits??? :lol: Foaming a bit on this one, eh?
Everyone slips up, has bad days, says things maybe they shouldn't have... boo-hoo. I could understand if Red had a questionable history, but he's proven himself to be an honest seller THOUSANDS of times over. (Let me repeat that -THOUSANDS- of happy transactions.) Like him or not whatever, criticize a comment, sure, but to jump all over his character is simply laughable!
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-D- wrote:
but he's proven himself to be an honest seller THOUSANDS of times over. (Let me repeat that -THOUSANDS- of happy transactions.) Like him or not whatever, criticize a comment, sure, but to jump all over his character is simply laughable!
Ebay feedback is certainly a better indication than not. But for ages sellers on ebay would withold feedback on buyers even when they quickly paid, all that buyers need to do to deserve positive feedback. They would instead hold their feedback if needed for retaliation against buyer feedback. This caused plenty of buyers to not leave deserved negative or neutral feedback, as they didn't want their reps tarnished undeservedly. This is why ebay changed how feedback now works. So while definitely a good sign its not as definitive an indicator as you describe IMHO. Now if red's policy was always to send positive feedback as soon as he got payment that would be another positive indicator about how he conducts himself. Personally I don't know much about him. Perhaps he had a bad day as you imply. My point here is while its a good indicator for him I think you are overstating what ebay feedback can tell us or not on its own.
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-D- wrote:
arkanoid wrote:
-D- wrote:
arkanoid wrote:
The fact that Redromola is a trader and even has an account on Amibay probably means he'd have no problem buying things cheaply at those "community prices" he's mocked in this very thread.
:roll:
Yes, reread it, it's flawless logic. :roll:
Which is probably why Merlin has frozen his Amibay account.
Red buys things for pennies on amibay and sells them for huge profits??? :lol: Foaming a bit on this one, eh?
Everyone slips up, has bad days, says things maybe they shouldn't have... boo-hoo. I could understand if Red had a questionable history, but he's proven himself to be an honest seller THOUSANDS of times over. (Let me repeat that -THOUSANDS- of happy transactions.) Like him or not whatever, criticize a comment, sure, but to jump all over his character is simply laughable!
Well, he's either in the business of making profit from Amiga wares, or he isn't. You can't have it both ways. Despite what you say, I think he's made it clear that his only concern is making money from Amiga sales. With that in mind, are you saying he doesn't buy things cheaper and then sell them on? He obviously does, else he's a piss-poor "business man".
So my (and other's) point is that he shouldn't be allowed to have any influence on a site (Amibay) setup SPECIFICALLY to counteract greed driven Amiga sales. As has already been pointed out, there's a conflict of interests there and I'm really glad the Amibay mods see that! Besides that, and more to the point of this thread, his commercially driven comments (such as "waaaaay tooo cheap") in a thread where a sale is taking place between genuine enthusiasts (whose main concern may not be hiking prices up to the absolute maximum) are NOT welcome. We all know exactly why he found this thread's sale item "waaaay too cheap".
Nobody has said Red is a "bad trader", I have no idea if he is or if he isn't. But really, that's not the point of people's concern here. What I do know, is that he's blatantly honest, perhaps to a fault. He's so honest that he's let us all know that any involvement he has in Amiga trades and any comment he makes is based purely on how much profit can be made. For people who view their Amiga as a passionate hobby (as I think most of us do), and in a lot of ways a place we can all escape from the crap that comes along with modern systems dictated by capitalism and money - his take on the Amiga community is complete crap!
And to top it off, he's a moderator on one of the "communiy's" largest and most influential sites. To me, that's almost sinful.
And by the way, the attitude Red has displayed in this thread is no "slip up". When you make slipups, you apologize. When you think you're justified and cannot see why people are so upset, you stubbornly continue with the same line - as he has done.
-
What is the difference between what red is doing and what AmigaKit does? I don't see anyone complaining about AmigaKit's markups or the fact that they're making a profit from the community.
Sour grapes, defamatory accusations and double standards too. Oh my!
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As far as im aware, Amigakit have never posted comments in a thread encouraging price hiking between enthusiasts. They quietly get on with their business in a professional manner.
Don't worry, it's nothing personal. I'm pretty certain Amigakit would get as much stick if they pulled the same stunt. It's nothing to do with WHO has done it, it's what has been done and what that person's motives are.
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gklinger wrote:
What is the difference between what red is doing and what AmigaKit does?
Golan,
Adding to arkanoid's comment;
red's stuff is mostly second-hand & hard to find items. Amiga Kit's stuff mostly is new & more up to date items. Making statements like this is missing the point whilst fuelling the bs.
Kin
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.... Had to log in and put in my two cents.
So when was it a crime to sell stuff for high prices? If we are factoring the age of the hardware, we may as well sell the original apple for $10 or even prototypes that dont fully work for $5 a piece....
On a side note, everyone is free to sell whatever for the prices they are asking for.. Dont like it? Simply do not buy..
If Redrumloa wants to sell at his prices, let him. Heck, I thought that Amiga 4000 w/060 he had up not too long ago was a killer deal for $1100 for the fact that he could part it out in pieces and get MUCH MUCH more for it.
If anyone also whines that Redrumloa takes over a good chunk of the Amiga market, why dont you hunt and buy out and sell your stuff the way you want?
But enough, cheers to Redrumloa on selling Amiga items and dealing in them. Im sure if it wasnt for him keeping it up, we would see the hardware go straight to the landfill. lol. :lol:
-
....and another one misses the point....
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/me gazes into his crystal ball and can foresee redrumloa hanging up his amiga cables and disposing of all stock, never to be sold or sourced again.
Lets hope everyone will be happy on that day should it come to pass (might be sooner than we think if this carries on) ... yet another source of miggy hardware assigned to the history books and internet search engines *sigh*
Yes, red is a seller and yes, he is a moderator here but so what? He is trusted enough by Wayne et al to have that moderator status and all you lot do is whine that he made a comment and it got immediately linked to his status here.
So instead of everyone adding to the {bleep}-pile, step away from your keyboards, stop fanning the flames and let cooler heads prevail for a change.
To sum up ... Communist or capitalist ... I really don't give a rat's rectum so long as my miggy addiction is alive and well with NOS, new products or homebrew hacks - price is irrelevant as is the vendor.
Thats ya lot ... I'm off back to the popcorn
(http://forums.mg-rover.org/images/smilies/popcorn.gif)
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@kd7ota
Anyone can sell at high prices. That's OK. What's being disputed in this thread is when a professional seller goes into a thread that is between a hobbyist seller and a hobbyist buyer and drops a remark that was uncalled for. That's all it was, really. Then it got stupid and he invited his friends and family, too.
I still think it was wrong and unethical - the guy not only sells stuff for a living, he's also a moderator. However soon it got too bad, from all sides..
The original statement was wrong, but so was many of the following ones too. Now we're down to either fixing this, or forgetting this.
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Kin-Hell wrote:
red's stuff is mostly second-hand & hard to find items. Amiga Kit's stuff mostly is new & more up to date items.
Peaches are best eaten when ripe.
You know what our two statements have in common? They're both completely irrelevant.
Making statements like this is missing the point whilst fuelling the bs.
I haven't missed the point. You lot are so busy with the demonizing that you've long since passed the point of being rational and have resorted to supposition, innuendo and the tossing of red herrings.
arkanoid : I'm glad this isn't personal. :roll:
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So when was it a crime to sell stuff for high prices?
That was not what caused the issue that came up in this thread.
On a side note, everyone is free to sell whatever for the prices they are asking for.. Dont like it? Simply do not buy..
This was actually what the people arguing with red wanted to have happen. Red interjected on that process publicly saying that the asking price was much too cheap, encouraging the seller to raise what he was asking for the hardware.
If Redrumloa wants to sell at his prices, let him.
Again the people who brought up issue with what he did had no problem with him in this regard. For the back and forth of publishing personal emails in the thread, it even appears that one of these people was a happy prior customer. And in red's anger he even banned that person from bidding in the future.
If anyone also whines that Redrumloa takes over a good chunk of the Amiga market, why dont you hunt and buy out and sell your stuff the way you want?
While a couple people did voice this concern, it was not the people (from what I saw) that took issue with the pricing remark. And I'm not sure that you should call people who do voice that concern whiners. I think the consensus is most people don't fault red for charging a premium. But they don't want him interfering with other transactions on this board in a possible effort to (or hell even innocently enough) jack prices in general is what I gathered, since he is a well known dealer and moderator here.
But enough, cheers to Redrumloa on selling Amiga items and dealing in them. Im sure if it wasnt for him keeping it up, we would see the hardware go straight to the landfill. lol
I'm sure that would happen sometimes yes. His ebay store does seem to have some interesting goodies. And with an old platform like this its nice to have some options like his store to buy from.
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I'm no fan of high prices, but I'd rather see Jim (or another eBayer) sell it for too much to an active hobbyist than see it go for too little to a collector/hoarder.
High prices won't last forever, though. Eventually, the "lucky" buyer will default on their credit card balance and leave the rest of us with the bill in terms of higher interest rates (assuming you carry balances and accrue interest--I don't). ;-)
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OMG - this whole thing is stupid and blown way out of proportion. It is like listening to a bunch of 5 yr olds {bleep}ing on the play ground - he said - she said... My children (10 and 7) are more mature than this dribble.
Quote: "Winning an argument on the Internet is like winning the special Olympics... in the end you are still retarded"
Ok... back to the {bleep}ing... keep it up... my 7 yr old thinks it is funny!
:popcorn:
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RRunner: Your interwebs experience must be pretty dull if you never get into heated discussions now and then about stuff. And who's to say what's important and what isn't? Are you the Official Arbitrator of Intraweb Topical Debate, or something? If so, where's your badge? I demand to see it! :-)
I think this particular topic is pretty topical, as far as Amiga-community related discussions go :P And after all this is an Amiga community website.
Eat your pop-corn and don't be such a spoil sport - you know you're loving it! :-)
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Ok... back to the {bleep}ing... keep it up... my 7 yr old thinks it is funny! :popcorn:
You Canadians must have an odd idea of what makes good bedtime stories and popcorn inspiring entertainment!
:crazy: :lol: :-P
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@RRunner
You are so terribly wrong!!!
Several Special Olympics folks have disabilities.
(i.e. lost limbs, birth defects and such)
With full mental capabilities.
edit
Stephen Hawking could be in the Special Olympics!
end edit
And how do you judge your IQ?
This is statement is much worse then the bs on this thread.
I hope you rethink this sad, sad joke.
Michael Salcedo
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SACC-guy wrote:
@RRunner
You are so terribly wrong!!!
Several Special Olympics folks have disabilities.
(i.e. lost limbs, birth defects and such)
/me thinks your confusing the special olympics with the paralympics ......
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Kronos wrote:
/me thinks your confusing the special olympics with the paralympics ......
Just in case people don't know the difference between Paralympics and the Special Olympics ... The Special Olympics is for those who have intellectual disabilities, not physical ones.
Linky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paralympics) (Paralympics)
Linky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Olympics) (Special Olympics)
Here endeth the lesson for today :-)
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SACC-guy wrote:
@RRunner
You are so terribly wrong!!!
Several Special Olympics folks have disabilities.
(i.e. lost limbs, birth defects and such)
With full mental capabilities.
edit
Stephen Hawking could be in the Special Olympics!
And how do you judge your IQ?
This is statement is much worse then the bs on this thread.
I hope you rethink this sad, sad joke.
Michael Salcedo
IQ is measured, not "judged".
Special Olympics is for people with mental disabilities.
Stephen Hawkings could not be in the Special Olympics. He is too short! (Actually he is too smart).
The only thing "bad" about my post was the use of the pollitically incorect term "retard".
Relax. It was a joke! I know of a few good web sites for Valium if you need some (that was a joke too btw).
:-D
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@rrunner
LOL! For someone criticizing this thread and supposedly needless back and forth responses your continued posting in it is quite funny! :lol:
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ffastback wrote:
@rrunner
LOL! For someone criticizing this thread and supposedly needless back and forth responses your continued posting in it is quite funny! :lol:
I got a new iPod Touch for Xmas. My first EVER Apple product. Any excuse to use it... even mindless banter on this thread! :-D
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Im really lost for words on this one. Not seen hatred, bickering and general chidishness form everyone concerned on this level since the inital blue/red wars.
Thought we had on the whole put all that sort of thing behind us. obviosuly not.
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lordef wrote: (in the other red topic that is now locked)
@Others; Look back at red's posts, 99.9% of them are genuinely interesting amiga posts. Once he's gone there will be a higher percentage of toss from the idiots who still like to bang on about A.inc next year, blue and red wars etc.
No one seems happy that he is leaving. No one seemed to be trying to make him leave either. Obviously he is pretty volatile right now, between his angry words, his banning folks, and now quitting the community or whatever. But he was by no means driven out or anything. People who were disagreeing with him have confirmed they don't want to see him go, have offered apologies, etc. And he also had very vocal support from many folks in these threads. He is a grown man. This ultimately is of his own doing now and no one is celebrating that I see. And he can always come back in an instant, either now, or whenever else. In the meantime what is there really left to say?
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redrumloa wrote:
Waaay too cheap.
IMHO, if redrumloa was a cold hearted capitalist he wouldn't comment on the price here in the forum, just send an email with a bid to AllocVec instead. Seems to me this is more about helping, one seller to another.
PS:
I hope you're impressed with my post count. ;)
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modrobert wrote:
IMHO, if redrumloa was a cold hearted capitalist he wouldn't comment on the price here in the forum, just send an email with a bid to AllocVec instead. Seems to me this is more about helping, one seller to another.
That logic only works if he was interested in buying that particular card at that time as a consumer. Which he was not. His actions were about keeping the going market value higher. Since he sources in lots typically his maximizing of profit comes from the individual item sale market keeping its extreme premium.
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His actions were about keeping the going market value higher.
The question here would be, are you really qualified to tell what his actions were all about?
Personally, it looked to me like he simply made an observation. A very correct observation, based on how quickly people were crawling all over each other to purchase this card.
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Ilwrath wrote:
Personally, it looked to me like he simply made an observation. A very correct observation, based on how quickly people were crawling all over each other to purchase this card.
So only cheap or under-priced, but desirable things have people crawling over each other to purchase them? There is never a waiting list for expensive desirable things? Thats absurd first off. And two people showing interest is hardly "people crawling all over each other", thats certainly exaggerating things IMHO.
Beyond that, if we work with your own conclusion as you state it above, it shows that he sought to share his observation to make it known it was a very low price to the Amiga public at large. He even made a comparison implying it might have sold at only 30 percent of its worth (as I read it, you may read it differently). Which in the end is about letting people know they should keep the prices on it higher, which helps affect the higher market value he believes the card should hold.
But if it makes you feel any better this is all IMHO of course.
:-D
My main point is modrobert's logic is flawed as red was not looking to buy the card in question.
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Ilwrath has a point IMHO. I'm amazed about how much information people can extract from a few posts: his motives, the purpose of the comments, etc.
I wish I was that clever; I would have been rich by now.
I'll just go on with my ordinary life, and let others figure everything out about me, based on this post....
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Ignoring the truism that perception is reality, I'd agree. Perhaps some of us did jump to some conclusions.
That said, it is interesting how he lashed out, blocked bids and wants to close his account. I agree with Wayne on almost all counts. Some nasty things were said. Some of us -were- having a bad day. Things got carried away. Most, if not ALL of us (myself included), offered a truce, a hand shaking and a gesture to move forward together. By his inaction and lack of participation, Red has made it clear what he thinks of the entire community, the business and the hobby. But that would befit his most recent verbiage and actions. And that's what's most saddening here.
It was never my intention to have Red or anyone like him 'leave' the community. But if this is what is to be expected of him, then... make of it what you will. He will be missed, but life goes on.
Amiga.org rocks on many levels and is still *better* than most/all of the other AmigaFanForums - IMO. It's comprised mostly of kind hearted people who aren't afraid to share their advise and techniques. Still MUCH value to be had here, make no mistake about it.
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doctorq wrote:
Ilwrath has a point IMHO. I'm amazed about how much information people can extract from a few posts: his motives, the purpose of the comments, etc.
I wish I was that clever; I would have been rich by now.
I'll just go on with my ordinary life, and let others figure everything out about me, based on this post....
We all have our opinions and they can always change with more info so long as one is not closed minded. And none of us are omnipotent. For me certain things said by him (as well as the banning of accounts) were obviously more impactful to my opinions than they were to yours. I can respect that. This is a discussion forum after all. If it helps I'll not post again in this thread. And as I mentioned before I don't see any reason why red should leave the community. And given all the people who vouched for him I think if people see something worthwhile in his store for a price they feel comfortable with, that he seems like a fine retailer to do business with.
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doctorq wrote:
Ilwrath has a point IMHO. I'm amazed about how much information people can extract from a few posts: his motives, the purpose of the comments, etc.
I wish I was that clever; I would have been rich by now.
I'll just go on with my ordinary life, and let others figure everything out about me, based on this post....
Well - seeing how you're not clever enough to be rich by now.. you're obviously a Windows user, are responsible for the Amiga's downfall and making the baby jesus cry.
In your spare time you also kick dogs...
:-o
Eh, just trying to keep in the spirit of the thread here!
Yah, I was also amazed at the amount of info that was extrapolated from such few posts :)
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Amiga.org rocks on many levels and is still *better* than most/all of the other AmigaFanForums - IMO. It's comprised mostly of kind hearted people who aren't afraid to share their advise and techniques. Still MUCH value to be had here, make no mistake about it.
I agree and I'm aware of it.
Still I will never again put something up for sale here...
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doctorq wrote:
Still I will never again put something up for sale here...
Well, thats 2 people no longer willing to sell or trade on here over this debacle ... how many more? :-(
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@ZeBeeDee
It's not based on this thread alone but experiences in the past as well.
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doctorq wrote:
@ZeBeeDee
It's not based on this thread alone but experiences in the past as well.
I hear ya there ... All my stuff goes straight to onto Ebay and eBid these days. I run a business from home and I do it to make money, not to give things away. You want the item? You pay a reasonable price for it. If you don't like the price then go elsewhere, that is your perogative. If you want to trade items via places like amibay then thats fine, go right ahead ... that too is your perogative.
If, for example I had 10 Indivision AGA1200's to sell and nobody else had any, how many people would be biting their own legs off to get hold of one even if they paid $10 over the RRP? How many? LOADS! thats how many ... Supply and demand.
Me a capitalist? You bet I am ... anyone that has a problem with that can go tell it to somebody who cares.
-
What's the big deal? Are you afraid somebody is going to have something to say about your goods? To say you will NEVER sell here again is pretty harsh. So much for having an open mind. This all started because someone with a vested interest in selling Amiga goods made a comment about how "cheap" something went for. Are you saying that you view most of A.org members as cheap hobbyists and you'd rather squeeze every last penny out of someone that is a total stranger to you? Are we all supposed to jump on the GreedBay bandwagon now?
What's the real fear in offering things for sale or trade? And why continue to support eBay and PayPal? Is it because most people want to be heavily moderated as they are on Amibay?
Perhaps that's the real answer. A forum to discuss things should not be mixed with sales of any kind. 13+ years experience chatting/buying/selling/trading via Usenet/Internet would sure seem to support this notion. Many, many examples of conflict of interest.
BTW: I use ePay as a last resort. Like to offer goods to a community first. But it has been my experience that sales have been awfully soft since Usenet was divided and scattered into XX amount of specialised web forums. Ironic though how people in a community would rather you post here first, want things for whatever price, flake out, talk you down, treat each other poorly, etc. I guess many of us have come full circle (again) in this regard. And for that - I am sorry. Would be nice if there was better clarity in dealings these days. No wonder people are more confused than ever. Webforum market's are not the same as eBay.
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Are you afraid somebody is going to have something to say about your goods? To say you will NEVER sell here again is pretty harsh. So much for having an open mind.
Well, you were right in the middle of the storm in this one, I have been in one myself here on this very forum. A FS thread with a high priced item will quickly run into a a lot of posts stating that the item is priced to high, with posts of finding similar cheaper items for them to justify their claim that the item should cost that, and only that.
If you, as I have, choose not to put things up for sale on forums like this you get less attacks (I have been called a lot of things by now), a quicker sale, and you get the price you want for it.
Call me narrow minded, but I prefer the less hazzle I have by selling outside forums.
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I wouldn't call it completely narrow minded. Just sad as we come to realise certain truths. Selling outside of any of the web forums is justifiable. Just don't want to see any more people jumping ship over this thread is all. Enough damage has been done.
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I will never sell an item here either!
Way to go, guys.
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I won't sell here either, but sometimes that doesn't matter. There was a thread recently where someone saw one of my items for sale on EBay and commented on it. Soon the thread was off and running just like other people have stated here. I was trying to sell the item for exactly what I had paid but this forum was full of people finding fault with the item (which there was none) and going on about how it was overpriced and others had sold for less. I guess on this forum it's OK to sell things for less than their value but if you want market value you "lack decency". There are 3 people on this thread who have been idiots since ReDrums first statement. I don't have to name names because if you have read the thread it is very obvious.
If you hit somebody over the head with a 2X4 it's gonna hurt no matter how many times the person striking the blow says they're sorry. This is a foreign concept to several of the people in this thread.
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ZeBeeDee wrote:
You want the item? You pay a reasonable price for it. If you don't like the price then go elsewhere, that is your perogative. If you want to trade items via places like amibay then thats fine, go right ahead ... that too is your perogative.
Agree 100% - and here's the crazy of crazy points that really hasn't been touched on:
99% of the time it isn't the person putting up the item that creates the crazy price - it's the people bidding on it.
I mean I've seen some things with starting crazy prices before - but they aren't the norm.
Recently I saw a flicker fixer start out at 20 bucks. It ended up being sold for 200.
This wasn't the seller being 'greedy' it was the market wanting the item.
I think it would be a safe mans bet that if you had people bid on an item even on a forum you'd get exactly the same result.
As for me - I made up my mind long long ago I wasn't going to sell stuff on here after a rather 'heated debate' over parting a system out.
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tone007, doctorq, ZeBeeDee, and whoever else it may concern:
The funniest thing is, if you guys were not on this cheerleader-like crusade to paint Redromola as some kind of martyr over this issue, you might actually see that the essence of what myself and others (such as ffstrack, Save2600, etc) were actually saying was in favour of YOUR right to choose exactly what YOU, as a seller, wanted to charge for your items - without the fear of having some cretin rear his ugly little head in the middle of your FS thread questioning your prices.
You guys are narrowing your blinkered focus on a few choice words which were basically used to PROVE Redromola's motives behind shouting out "waaaay too cheap". I can see the tactic, and how it benefits your Red-crusade, but common - it's pretty deceitful and low. In other words, yes, the word "capitalist" was used to label him, because he is a self-confessed Amiga capitalist and THAT was (as he himself admitted) HIS reason/motivation for making the initial comment he made. We couldn't exactly say: "hey Red, your reasons for your uncalled for comment were Communistic" or benevolent non-commercial socialism now, could we? We'd have to save the "socialist" label for someone who shouted "waaaay tooo high!!" - obviously.
Capitalism was given as a REASON for Red's comment and that reason does not excuse him attempting to price-hike a sale between enthusiasts, now does it? By the same token, favouring "community pricing" does not give you any more moral high ground to shout "way to expensive", imo.
And, just to prove my point, here is a quote from a post I made in this (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38934) thread where a user was saying the exact polar opposite of Redrumola's, basically he said: "waaaay to cheap!!" and I had a few choice words to say to him also:-
"wurzel: I suggest you get your calculator out, do your sums and add up the going rate for the components included in the system. the individual components alone will add up to not far off his £950 asking price. and when you figure in eBay/PayPal fees and the amount of work that has obviously gone into building the system - it's not that far off the mark.
why do people hate to see regular people make a little money? it's not this guy's fault that you're broke."
I assure you, if I had my way you could charge exactly what you wanted (hiking your prices beyond all known limits - if you wish!) and never have to hear another "waaaay too much!!!" again. But I guess that will never happen, because by you defending Red's actions and purposefully misconstruing the MAIN point of people's concern in this thread, trolls will forever feel the "right" to give their unwelcomed opinion on what YOU are or aren't charging for YOUR items - in the full knowledge that that "right" will be backed and defended by the "community".
Unless, as I suspect, the only people who actually get defended on this topic are moderators and people who are "liked", or who have posted "99.9% interesting threads about Minimig projects". Childish, you're not children and you shouldn't have to agree with EVERY action a person makes just because you "like" them.
- happy days!
-
With all these posts, did the card ever sell? Just curious. A Blizzard 2060 is nice to have.
I think I paid about $300 for one back in 2005. One day I'll put BSD on it as I have continuously threatened to do. Need to replace my aging backup NS/MX server, Sun SparcStation IPX. :-D
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LoadWB: yes, I believe...somehow through all the mania, Save2600 managed to purchase it. And I dont think red's comment swayed Christian, so he didn't charge double :-)
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@ arkanoid
I do trade in peace ... and will continue to do so TYVM :-)
Type away or just let it go ... your choice, I really don't care.
Just out of interest though ... Now that Redrumloa has gone(?), who's next hmmmm?
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ZeBeeDee: I like typing, it varies the workout I give my fingers - besides the nightly five-knuckle shuffle.
However, I think you guys are going to give me RSI from having to repeat the same crap over and over... :crazy:
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arkanoid wrote:
ZeBeeDee: I like typing, it varies the workout I give my fingers - besides the nightly five-knuckle shuffle.
However, I think you guys are going to give me RSI from having to repeat the same crap over and over... :crazy:
Well, maybe you should stop typing crap ... think about it :-) And whilst you are knocking one, try changing hands - it might help your RSI.
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:lol:
but it's REALLY hard. you guys keep pushing my buttons with your one sided comments...
but I'm going to try harder now...honest
MUST
RESIST!!!
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Just for you arkanoid ... your very own button - enjoy!
(http://ca.geocities.com/fowgre/gfGraphics/button_PushMe.png)
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@ LoadWB:
Yes, I purchased this from Christian and it should be in transit as we speak. I have been wanting an 060 for some time for my A2000. Have dealt with him on Usenet a decade it ago and was glad to see him still involved in Miggy stuff.
@ Arkanoid:
Thanks for having more energy to explain, re-explain, iterate, re-iterate to the cheerleaders than I. Lots of moot points now as people have {bleep}ised the entire point(s). The one lesson I believe I've learned here (and others before me) is that you can hardly do ANY transacting in peace. To this end, may just be better off keeping the 2 issues compartmentalised: sales & hobby type discussion. I suspect Red was getting fed up some time ago and this was the last straw for him. For better or for worse.
All we can do now is move on. I'm ready... is everyone else yet?
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arkanoid wrote:
tone007, doctorq, ZeBeeDee, and whoever else it may concern:
You guys are narrowing your blinkered focus on a few choice words which were basically used to PROVE Redromola's motives behind shouting out "waaaay too cheap". I can see the tactic, and how it benefits your Red-crusade, but common - it's pretty deceitful and low.
LOL.
Which choice words were those again? Was that where he was accused of having multiple accounts on Amibay in order to bilk the masses - or was it when he as a moderator was going to lock the thread?
Because I think those were pretty deceitful, and low.
(and both proven untrue as well).
BTW wouldn't know Red from Adam - and I'm sure he's the same way about me... After reading both threads from start to finish - I think he made a pretty funny comment and folks foamed at the mouth.. and the majority of the foaming wasn't from him.
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Sig999:
I've put ZeBeeDees button on my wall...and I'm not going to press it!!
(http://up.kupatrix.com/f/8/Motivational_Poster_Collection/Temptation.jpg)
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Sig999 wrote:
Which choice words were those again? Was that where he was accused of having multiple accounts on Amibay in order to bilk the masses - or was it when he as a moderator was going to lock the thread?
Because I think those were pretty deceitful, and low.
(and both proven untrue as well).
(Ok have to come off the bench for this one, sorry).
Now now. If Red's comments should be supposedly taken in the best light then its only fair you grant arkanoid the same courtesy. He did not make a direct accusation. He implied it might be so out of anger, just like red did stuff out of anger. The difference, arkanoid apologized. And the comment about locking the thread I believe was someone else, I think you are referring to the comment from the user "Ideal", where he actually said he expected his post to be deleted?
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ZeBeeDee wrote:
If, for example I had 10 Indivision AGA1200's to sell and nobody else had any, how many people would be biting their own legs off to get hold of one even if they paid $10 over the RRP? How many? LOADS! thats how many ... Supply and demand.
Well, if you got those by buying them in heaploads when available, only to resell them later with profit when the stores are sold out, I wouldnt bother calling you a capitalist, I'd call you an asshole and exploiter, no need to bring in fancy -isms.
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kolla wrote:
I'd call you an asshole and exploiter, no need to bring in fancy -isms.
Thats Mr Rich Asshole or Mr Exploiter if you please ... and you'd still pay if you needed the item, despite your attempts at flattery :-)
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arkanoid wrote:
I've put ZeBeeDees button on my wall...and I'm not going to press it!!
Dont push me! (http://www.85qm.de/up/BigRedButton.swf) :
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All we can do now is move on. I'm ready... is everyone else yet?
I'm ready to move and have a suggestion. I've been following biting my lip and keeping my finger from the keyboard knowing I would probably only fuel the fire.
However it's come to a quiet spot where I might make a suggestion.... Could we agree to leave the FS and FA threads to the sellers and interested buyers? Maybe even make a board policy about it? Certainly we would have to make some rules around it and allow exception for any attempted scam or scammer. Craigslist has a feature to flag a suspect post without disrupting it. It's tagged for scrutiny, investigated and either left to run or deleted if proven fradulent. Could we do similar here with the report button and keep our other opinions in check?
Some wish to gain maximum profit, others are happy with charity, and still others are some where in the middle. These camps have hammered away since the invention of man with predictable results.
Pesonally I say let the sellers sell, and let the market decide. Even before this thread, I too have become reluctant to sell here. A.org will remain an option for me, but any more slugfest like this one will definitly put me off in the future. (Big deal eh? I probably only sell 4-5 Amiga things a year.)
Plaz
(edit: spelling as usual :-P )
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Well, if you got those by buying them in heaploads when available, only to resell them later with profit when the stores are sold out, I wouldnt bother calling you a capitalist, I'd call you an asshole and exploiter, no need to bring in fancy -isms.
I'd call him fortunate and hope he resells at a reasonable price so I can have one. For me, the name calling would be waaaay out of line unless it was proven his buying and selling were done deceitfully.
A perfect example to why I made my suggestion in the previous post.
And now I'm done here and hope that some one starts another topic about posible thread policys.
Plaz
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Plaz wrote:
However it's come to a quiet spot where I might make a suggestion.... Could we agree to leave the FS and FA threads to the sellers and interested buyers? Maybe even make a board policy about it?
I'm not sure if a board policy is practical or even necessary. I would guess all it really takes is for most users to adopt a similar stance on the matter and begin informing the people making the "that's waaay too cheap" or "that's waaay to expensive" remarks that their behaviour is unacceptable. After a while, the price-whiners will get the message and the unwritten rule will be that you do not pass judgement on people's pricing.
I mean, people just want to buy and sell their stuff and, like you say, people have different ideas on both what to charge and pay. Long gone are the days of RRP for classic Amiga items, so who really has any right to pass judgement. It's not on and it seems that almost every FS thread these days has someone at it.
But, on the other hand, perhaps a written rule somewhere would help make the idea more concrete. You've seen for yourself just how divided people are on this one.
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ffastback wrote:
(Ok have to come off the bench for this one, sorry).
Now now. If Red's comments should be supposedly taken in the best light then its only fair you grant arkanoid the same courtesy. He did not make a direct accusation. He implied it might be so out of anger, just like red did stuff out of anger. The difference, arkanoid apologized. And the comment about locking the thread I believe was someone else, I think you are referring to the comment from the user "Ideal", where he actually said he expected his post to be deleted?
I was referring to the mass comments in general - I mean if I'm to be lumped into the stereotype of 'cheerleader' then (now now) you can expect the same? Good for the goose, and all of that.
'Did not make a direct accusation' is very much like Fox News saying 'some people say...(insert opinion here). I'm not taking anyones comments in the 'best possible light' - I'm treating them as I read them.. I don't think I see anything from his side of the argument that compared to the insinuations leveled against him. That simple.
As for the 'bigger man' - hey I actually think that goes to Red - he just stopped replying and let it sit.
He's not going on about it trying to assert motives and piety post mortum. He just let it be.
I really think if you anyone goes back and reads over the thread from start to finish, a lot of folks would come to the same conclusion... I didn't on first read (or any of the reads on any other similar comments) come to the conclusions that were launched on this thread, and although I think both parties acted like f*ckwits over it - you'll find the low blows, accusations, and character assasinations pretty much came from that side off the fence.
Hey - you might not see it that way, and thats fine - but it has nothing to do with 'cheerleading' or 'post counts' or any of that rot, as your buddy has implied.. in fact all that rubbish did was solidify my opinion on the situation (if you don't agree with me you must all by type x y z as I've just lumped this guy in with a b c...).
And then to say someone ELSE is close minded (laugh) ohhhhh the irony! (wipes tear) it's just too much to take in one night.
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Sig999 wrote:
I mean if I'm to be lumped into the stereotype of 'cheerleader' then (now now) you can expect the same? Good for the goose, and all of that.
Except I never called you a cheerleader now did I? In fact I did no such thing. You are the one not giving equal treatment. You are one not treating each individual based on their own actions only when dealing with them. You treat me as if I called you a cheerleader. I did not. And yet you are on my case as if I did. You are the one lumping me in with those that did call you one. Do you normally give one person crap for something they never did? If you did thats a real poor way to conduct yourself.
'Did not make a direct accusation' is very much like Fox News saying 'some people say...(insert opinion here). I'm not taking anyones comments in the 'best possible light' - I'm treating them as I read them.. I don't think I see anything from his side of the argument that compared to the insinuations leveled against him. That simple.
The point is to be fair, should it not be? He admitted he f'd up doing it. I said straight up I think he did it out of anger, which is wrong. And he apologized. You don't want red crucified but lets crucify arkanoid right? What penance does he have to do beyond this to satisfy you? Is he not allowed to still hold and defend his opinions otherwise meanwhile?
As for the 'bigger man' - hey I actually think that goes to Red - he just stopped replying and let it sit.
Bull (IMHO). Because a) he owed some people an apology on a couple of points himself. b) he is a mod and should be held to a higher standard, and if not held to it by others, he should have done so for himself. c) Even if he did not mean it the way it came off he probably should be savvy enough to know his vendor status complicated things. He banned kinhell for even trying to mediate, a previous customer. Abandoning all the people here who love what he does for the community and have stood up for him here is like running off the playground with his ball.
And then to say someone ELSE is close minded (laugh) ohhhhh the irony! (wipes tear) it's just too much to take in one night.
You should deal with each person for what they did or said individually and if you are referring to mass comments in general maybe its worth making that a little clearer maybe??
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ffastback wrote:
Except I never called you a cheerleader now did I? In fact I did no such thing. You are the one not giving equal treatment. You are one not treating each individual based on their own actions only when dealing with them. You treat me as if I called you a cheerleader. I did not. And yet you are on my case as if I did. You are the one lumping me in with those that did call you one. Do you normally give one person crap for something they never did? If you did thats a real poor way to conduct yourself.
ohh PLEASE! This is a silly interweb quip and a jades trick of old - follow your own logic and you should never have 'gotten off the bench' to reply to that which never was addressed at you then.
Sorry - not taking the bait on that one.
The point is to be fair, should it not be? He admitted he f'd up doing it. I said straight up I think he did it out of anger, which is wrong. And he apologized. You don't want red crucified but lets crucify arkanoid right? What penance does he have to do beyond this to satisfy you? Is he not allowed to still hold and defend his opinions otherwise meanwhile?
So.. see above - you're speaking for him now? He doesn't have to do ANY pennance to satify me... A line was crossed. But am I 'crucifying him'? No - pointing out his own double standards, hypocracy, and hyperbole - yes... most certainly - especially in regards to the argument that if I don't agree with his conclusions I must be in a specific camp.
Now please - hold up your last words here to the light... He most certainly is... and with that... so am I. And please show me where I've even implied this tangent - I'd be most glad to see it!
Bull (IMHO). Because a) he owed some people an apology on a couple of points himself. b) he is a mod and should be held to a higher standard, and if not held to it by others, he should have done so for himself.
in my opinion he made that peace with the boards owner - asking to be removed.
I don't think he owed any of you an apology - seriously I don't. I do think that some folks crossed the line and I wouldn't blame him for not accepting one.
You should deal with each person for what they did or said individually and if you are referring to mass comments in general maybe its worth making that a little clearer maybe??
If you can't tell the difference - you shouldn't even be typing, as you don't have a grasp of the subject matter.
But I know you can, and you know exactly what I'm saying.. see above.. sorry .. at the top.. very top - first comment..(perhaps I should number them) been around too long to worry about this non-sequitor.
Dancing around the subject aint gonna change the subject. Dancing around the points won't change the facts, text, nor context.
And it certainly won't change my opinion.
Bottom line is - some folks acted as d*cks... I noticed them acting like d*cks... and to me they will always BE d*cks.
From here the list doesn't get shorter... it only gets longer.
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ohh PLEASE! This is a silly interweb quip and a jades trick of old - follow your own logic and you should never have 'gotten off the bench' to reply to that which never was addressed at you then.
No tricks. I refered to myself as coming off the bench as I said in a previous post I intended to bow out of the thread. I made my comment because I thought you were being grossly unfair to someone IMHO.
So.. see above - you're speaking for him now?
No. Its pretty obvious he can speak for himself as he has on multiple posts. I am speaking about my opinion.
Bottom line is - some folks acted as d*cks... I noticed them acting like d*cks... and to me they will always BE d*cks.
Always huh? Now thats a friggin great attitude to have now isn't it?
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ffastback wrote:
No tricks. I refered to myself as coming off the bench as I said in a previous post I intended to bow out of the thread. I made my comment because I thought you were being grossly unfair to someone IMHO.
Good - then you can understand MY opinion that a bunch of folks were being grossly unfair to someone else.
My opinion on that is unchanged, and it's as valid as yours or anyone elses... You may not LIKE it - but thats too bad.
It's not based on 'buddies' nor post counts or affiliations - its based entirely on this thread.
Always huh? Now thats a friggin great attitude to have now isn't it?
Yes it is - it works well for me - empirical evidence over the years has shown 'the interweb leopard rarely changes its spots'
And certainly in this case - with some of the low points struck in this thread I wouldn't want to associate with several of the participants.
And to be honest - I don't think many would hold that against me (and I really don't care if they did)..
Or lets put it in a more real light: I watch a person get punched at a bar - Do I become drinking buds with the guy who threw it, based on the 'fact' that it wasn't me?
Or do I look at the way they treat others a pretty good indication of how I myself would be treated?
Do I go back a week later and shake his hand and sit next to him?
No - when someone shows their nature to you, you take note of it. As for anger or emotions or any of other excuse... well.. again - I put a side note that they can't control them - I don't take it as a justification. The bigger man in THIS situation would walk rather than let that happen.
Your mileage may vary - but hey - thats life.
*shrug* But I'm not even remotely connected to anyone making pricing quips, or disparaging remarks about someones ethics, nor passing comment or judgement on anyones idea of community, fair pricing, or free market.
And as such - trying to use MY character to shadow earlier goings on in this thread won't make the air fresher either.
It's not MY attitude that brought this about is it?
If there's nothing to add to the actual topic at hand - then my conversation with you is over.
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Good - then you can understand MY opinion that a bunch of folks were being grossly unfair to someone else.
Yep I do and thats fine and dandy. I just happen to feel similarly about a post you made and shared my opinion in turn.
My opinion ... (i)s as valid as yours or anyone elses... You may not LIKE it - but thats too bad.
It's not based on 'buddies' nor post counts or affiliations
Neither is mine.
And as such - trying to use MY character to shadow earlier goings on in this thread won't make the air fresher either.
I didn't see any attempts to cloud (or "shadow") as you say anything from earlier in the thread using your character as a tool.
If there's nothing to add to the actual topic at hand - then my conversation with you is over.
Sounds good, bye then.
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Sig999 wrote:
Good - then you can understand MY opinion that a bunch of folks were being grossly unfair to someone else.
...
Or lets put it in a more real light: I watch a person get punched at a bar - Do I become drinking buds with the guy who threw it, based on the 'fact' that it wasn't me?
Or do I look at the way they treat others a pretty good indication of how I myself would be treated?
Do I go back a week later and shake his hand and sit next to him?
No - when someone shows their nature to you, you take note of it. As for anger or emotions or any of other excuse... well.. again - I put a side note that they can't control them - I don't take it as a justification. The bigger man in THIS situation would walk rather than let that happen.
Your mileage may vary - but hey - thats life.
*shrug* But I'm not even remotely connected to anyone making pricing quips, or disparaging remarks about someones ethics, nor passing comment or judgement on anyones idea of community, fair pricing, or free market.
And as such - trying to use MY character to shadow earlier goings on in this thread won't make the air fresher either.
It's not MY attitude that brought this about is it?
If there's nothing to add to the actual topic at hand - then my conversation with you is over.
What a pathetically inappropriate and contrived analogy. You might be in control of your emotions and anger, but you clearly are not in control of your hyperbolic emotives. Although I guess it served its function of plucking people's heart strings by equating two totally unequal acts. ie: the act on one hand of people simply giving a person their honest opinions (and perhaps one or two going a little over the top), and on the other hand a wild and crazy drunkard physically battering an innocent man in a bar. I'm surprised you didn't give the attacker a double barrelled shotgun and end with the victims guts sprawled on the dance flaw. well, done, but not very subtle and I think the gross inappropriateness of it and its obvious aim proves you're far from impartial.
Ever considered that most people were not "drinking with me" and merely stating their OWN independent opinion on the matter? What makes you think I wield more influence over the community than an already more popular (by far) moderator and respected trader? Another low-down reverse psychology trick. you seem to have quite a few.
There were a lot of people in that thread giving Red grief for what he done, all coming from different angles - some lower than others (many a lot lower than myself) but _most_ basically saying the same thing: "keep you nose out of sales between individuals and do not price hike!" And I think that's well and truly justified. Yes. Redromola's been around forums long enough to know _exactly_ what to do in those situations: show a little humility and at least hint that you may have been in the wrong. He didn't do that and so began the barrage. I'm pretty sure even you can see that and appreciate just how much that failure and his persistent rebuttals of "I don't give a crap - capitalism rules, you could have got twice for that!" and then simply walking away (as out of some higher morally justified principle) contributed to the heavy handedness he received.
but if you wish to paint him as the proverbial bar brawl victim, be my guest. you will get no real resistance from me as I've outwinded even myself on this one. And it's getting boring have people drag up the myopic intricacies of my delivery, rather than face the central and only real issue: that of nosey people interfering in other people's FS threads.
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Your all like a bunch of kids in a playgroung arguing about who's dad is the hardest. And I am not trying to insult any one person or group of people with the same view. But this is a discussion that can not be concluded.
Everyone has different views. And this thread has gone way way way way off topic.
There has been a lot of nonsense talked by lots of different people about lots of differen things.
No one persons view on buying, selling or anything else is the definitive.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can we lay this to rest now, its going around and around in circles, getting more and more people angry.
If we keep up at this rate more and more people will leave. Thats not something I want to see and I am sure its not something you all want to see either.
Wayne or any other Mod can we lock this thread please and have done with it.
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Hi i am just a lurker in these forums but i know enough to not post usually, man you lot are ugly, i would not trust you fookers anytime if i had a banning stick you would be banned, atleast 3 of you anyway.
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JJ: I for one would be happy with that. As I can't seem to just shutup, what with having the finger continually pointed in this direction. But, regardless, this is the ABSOLUTE final time I even bother to read this thread.
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Enough!!!!! :roll:
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moto
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My dad is the hardest!
Your dad has a blue butterfly tattooed on his ass!
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:popcorn: Phew! thank f*** for that, besides my popcorn's gone stale...very stale. Can we please get back to the business of Amigas now?
@Wayne
I implore you, please lock this thread and throw the key away in the deepest darkest hole, I think we are all united in that at least.
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Plaz wrote:
Well, if you got those by buying them in heaploads when available, only to resell them later with profit when the stores are sold out, I wouldnt bother calling you a capitalist, I'd call you an asshole and exploiter, no need to bring in fancy -isms.
I'd call him fortunate and hope he resells at a reasonable price so I can have one. For me, the name calling would be waaaay out of line unless it was proven his buying and selling were done deceitfully.
Exactly, that was what I was pointing out. Personally I'd rather give the money to the people who actually _produce_ the equipment, than to some opportunistic assholes who jump in and take products as hostages, demanding ransom for their release, so to speak.
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arkanoid wrote:
tone007, doctorq, ZeBeeDee, and whoever else it may concern:
The funniest thing is, if you guys were not on this cheerleader-like crusade to paint Redromola as some kind of martyr over this issue, you might actually see that the essence of what myself and others (such as ffstrack, Save2600, etc) were actually saying was in favour of YOUR right to choose exactly what YOU, as a seller, wanted to charge for your items - without the fear of having some cretin rear his ugly little head in the middle of your FS thread questioning your prices.
Again someone magically can see into other peoples head...
I have never tried "to paint Redromola as some kind of martyr over this issue" as you state, and I have never done the opposite. I have only stated that I won't sell on the forum, and I have given my reason for not doing so. Clearly I'm not alone on my point of view.
As someone else besides me has experienced, things get ugly pretty quickly, if the price doesn't suit all of the members. Look up some of the FS threads that has been in the past.
There is no doubt in my mind that if a sought after item (accelerator, graphics card, etc) is put for sale here for a higher price than you usually see, you will see the first couple of users jump in saying it is overpriced, linking to auction with a similar item for a different price. Why bother turning it into something ugly like it has been here, when you can avoid it all together?? You already know my answer.
-EDIT-
By the way; I won't mind to see this thread die as well, so my post should not be seen as blowing to the fire. Just wanted to iron out some of the misunderstandings some people had or may have.
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arkanoid wrote:
I've outwinded even myself on this one. And it's getting boring have people drag up the myopic intricacies of my delivery, rather than face the central and only real issue: that of nosey people interfering in other people's FS threads.
Hardly - if that was the meat of the situation (a flippant comment made quite OBVIOUSLY after a sale was made) - and the subsequent comments made right after be 'it' it would be a non issue.
The subsequent pages of comments after the fact, after the argument as well - a litany of unrelated comments on the guys character, his (non existant) actions on other sites, his mindset as a moderator.. its all there - you wrote it, go back and read it... had very little to do with (and was pretty much AFTER) your initial tiff.
Little late to cry 'unfair'... but here, you can borrow my hammer if you like - that last nail can be a {bleep} to get in by yourself.
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@Sig999
In fairness, on one small point there, confirmation that the card was spoken for from the seller (post #10) did not come until after Red made his comment (post #5).
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arkanoid wrote:
After a while, the price-whiners will get the message and the unwritten rule will be that you do not pass judgement on people's pricing.
Ok, but people are still fair game? :)
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In November 2008 I bought daughterboards for 3000 and 4000 from redrumloa on ebay.
These have as of today's date never arrived.
Have left negative feedback on redrumloa's profile on ebay.
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is this sillyness still going on :-o
unsubscribe
close
over
out
how's the weather ?
Happy New Year
Tom UK
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It would appear so. And I'm still "patiently" awaiting my 2060 btw :-)
The Euro is dropping weekly. $30 difference between then and now :roll:
@ ideal:
Jim(redrumloa) was/is a reputable seller that way. Perhaps it got lost in the mail? Was it not insured? I know our Federal Post Office does not allow insurance on certain things sent overseas. The availability of insurance also depends on how fast they're sent. A crock and another obvious way to get more money out of us, but it is what it is.
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Just read the whole thread! My goodness, what a 2-men-show by save2600 and arkanoid :knuddel: ! And you both still don't wanna stop. Normal, as long as other's follow your opinion or take it because of not having an own one.
In Germany we call things like this here Kindergarten :lol:
Really...calm down and stop this ridiculous reproaches.
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@ Springbok:
What are you rambling about? There is no more ill will going on (my end) here. Re-read my post. And the last few for that matter. I was defending Jim's ability to successfully dispatch his goods was all.
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Well, it would appear to me that his ability to dispatch goods is severely lacking, as I have not received anything three months later.
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Gosh... It's shocking actually how many people either have extremely low comprehension skills or just "didn't get it"... (even after reading the whole thread!).
@Ideal:
You should try contacting Redrumloa directly through eBay to solve the problem you're having.
Let's move along folks.