Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: Jethro_Tull on September 03, 2003, 03:54:19 PM
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Well , the title says it all really. A bloke posted an advert to sell his Amiga A1200 plus games for about 50 Euros. I spoke to the seller on the phone, and he seemed quite nice although he wouldn't budge on the price. He stated he never added anything to the beast, no HD, no memory expansion, nothing.
Do you think it's a good deal, or is it overpriced? I've owned a mega-souped up A500+ and an A600 in the past, and although I use WinUAE quite a lot I miss having a real Amiga, and besides, I've got a 720Mb 2.5" Drive begging to be used.
Thanks for the advice guys!
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50EUR is ... £34.43. I bought a vanilla 1200 for my CD1200 project (http://www.petergordon.org.uk/cd1200/) for £20, so £20-£30 seems to be the going rate. You might save some money by shopping around...
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To Jethro_Tull:
The Amiga 1200 is a toy! My advice would be for you to NOT buy it. Get yourself an Amiga 2000, 3000, or 4000 instead. :-D
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Thanks for your answer, however such an Amiga in Europe is not that easy, and when you find it, it'll be selling at quite an expensive price! If I could lay my hands on such a beast I'd snap it up immediatly, but it'll cost 200 Euros and up!
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/me hugs Doommaster
You were missed :-o ;-) :-D :-P
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If you want to play games and use older apps, a basic 1200 can be bought quite cheaply, and works great. Who cares if its a "toy" or a "professional computer"?
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If the A1200 is in good condition (not to yellow), a C=-model (ESCOM-AT-1200s stink)
and the games are orginals:
Reasonable value for that price.
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To Jethro_Tull:
You can usually buy an Amiga 2000HD on eBay for less then $100.00. I just bought one for $14.99 plus shipping. It has Kickstart 2.04 and the ECS Chip Set. If you must have an AGA Chip Set Amiga then buy yourself an Amiga 4000. You can usually buy an Amiga 4000 from eBay for less then $500.00. Jethro, I am only trying to point you to the right direction. You will thank me in the future. :-D
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(ESCOM-AT-1200s stink)
Why you say that?
I have both a C= and an AT 1200 and the latter has a
proper clock header and no gfx tearing unlike the
C=. I agree that the C= badge is better than the crap paper AT badge.
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$500 dollars is quite a big difference from 50 Euros. If the a1200 has kickstart3.1 in it and everything is in working order, I say go for it. It might be more expensive than ebay but there is no p & p and no waiting for the parcel to arrive. The a1200 is a fantastic introduction to the world of Amiga.
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@golem
Mmmmmm
back than I had one of the very 1st A1200s and it was all o.k. (no gfx-prob, and full c-port).
Escoms do have probs with the floppy (which can be fixed), and other issues.
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The Amiga 1200 is a toy!
that is ten times better than any dodgy big box amiga. :-)
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@DoomMaster
It's not really that easy getting big box Amigas cheap in Europe. And I wouldn't want to pay for the shipping for an Amiga 2000 from the U.S. ;-)
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@Jethro_Tull
IMO you're picking the right Amiga - you probably won't want to expand it so much to add a graphics card so you need the best custom chipset - AGA. The A4000 is probably far too expensive, so definitely go for the 1200.
That sounds like a fairish price, but have a look around - I got a slightly expanded A1200 with multisync monitor for £40 (€58), and it would definitely be worth paying that little bit more for something thats expanded.
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Doommaster. Are you calling my hardware a toy AGAIN?
Shut it. Your getting on my tits.
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To amigamad:
Now you know that you want an Amiga 4000 Tower. You would trade that Amiga 1200 for one in a heartbeat! :-D
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Who wouldnt? But i tell you this.
I most DEFINATLEY would not swap my a1200 for 15 amiga 2000's ANY day.
They are old.. Ru.. Oh well forget it.
Im not going into this again.
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You can usually buy an Amiga 2000HD on eBay for less then $100.00. I just bought one for $14.99 plus shipping. It has Kickstart 2.04 and the ECS Chip
I gave a kickstart two a1500 away with a monitor there big and only an amiga 500 with zorro slots .Stick to getting an a1200 there cheap and much more powerfull than the old breeze block. :-)
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Escoms do have probs with the floppy (which can be fixed),
my escom machine is ok with disks but internal tv modulator has issues . :-)
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Now you know that you want an Amiga 4000 Tower. You would trade that Amiga 1200 for one in a heartbeat!
like **** i would i have an a4000 tower it does not work, and i have an a4000 desktop that is intermitent, and 2 of my a1200,s have ppc acelerators and one is going to be fitted with a mediator pci board. My a1200 is worth 5 times more than both my a4000,s ,any way the a4000 tower is on the verge of getting modified and having the ppc amiga 1200 with the mediator pci fitted ,. :-)
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I love my escom - never had a problem with the disk drive, tv modulator or composite devices. Sometimes it makes some funny symbols for about 1/2 second on bootup, then boots every time from the internal drive in about 4 seconds into workbench. Granted, there aint much on the HDD but 4 seconds! Amazin i tell you. My PC takes longer than that to run its memory check! Lovely.
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While I would definately take a 1200 over a 2000 any day (no contest), I don't agree that they're better than 4000s.
I was very, very, very glad to get rid of my 1200 tower and replace it with a 4000. A system that has been as solid as a rock since.
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I was very, very, very glad to get rid of my 1200 tower and replace it with a 4000. A system that has been as solid as a rock since.
My main ppc a1200 was put together in 1996-7 and has been running fine ever since apart from a dodgy ide lead wich helped to burn the copper track on the ide interface. now repaired and working fine again .
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jeez, for $50! buy the freaking thing already... :-D
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@Doommaster
You obviously haven't followed Amiga hardware very well over the past 10 years.
A1200 is a toy unlike the A2000?? Just because one has a bigger case and more slots (which you can get both of for the A1200 BTW) the 1200 is faster, has better graphics, and is MUCH more supported today in terms of hardware and software.
the A2091 is the BEST SCSI controller available?? This is just uninformed BS.
Next you're going to be telling me that PPC expansion cards are a waste compared to the original Motorola CPUs because they weren't made by Commodore.
Have you noticed that 2000 systems usually run around $20-50 US, and the 1200 systems usually wind up starting at $100-120US????? There is a reason for this.
When it comes to Amiga hardware, you don't know what you are talking about. You've never been able to support ANY of the claims you have made on here, and every single one of them has been quite strongly argued by many different members of this board.
This isn't 1991 anymore! Things have changed since Commodore first released their hardware, and the ranking of machines is one of those things. When are you going to understand this?
There is nothing a 2000 can do that a 1200 can't, and a 1200 can do MUCH more, on top of starting off with a faster processor, more RAM and an AGA chipset.
The only place where a 2000 system outruns a 1200 is on price. It is less expensive to set it up with a toaster (for example) because you don't need a bus extender and a case. However if you were to pay the extra for the extender, you could run a video toaster 4000 with ALL of its functionality instead of the toaster 2000, or limiting the 4000.
What system do you think current hardware manufacturers are mainly developing for?? What do you think OS4.0 is initially being designed to run on?? the A1200.
BTW I am not in any way trying to dis the 4000, it's an incredible machine, but the suggestion that a 1200 is a toy and is somehow inferior to a 2000 is just ludicrous.
You need to quit believing that whatever commodore did or said 15 years ago is still true today. Commodore is gone, they have had no direct influence on the Amiga community for many, many years, and just because Commodore put something into a certain marketing bracket does not in any way mean anything by todays standards.
Commodore cards are not necessarily the best cards, and often times commodore hardware is some of the worst hardware available.(Anyone use an a520 compared to the alternatives?)
I swear I'd almost think you were trolling, if you are then you're absolutely brilliant! If you're not then well...I pity you.
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I think most people who have an A2k, A3k or A4k would only part with it when you pried it from their cold, dead hands.
I got my A1200 second-hand off a friend for quite cheap. Considering the expandability potential of an A1200, compared to most Amigas, they're worth it.
50 euros is a good price for a stock A1200 IMO.
I'd like to know why DoomMaster thinks an A1200 is a toy, and what makes an A2/3/4k so different... I'm fairly sure the upgrade costs are about the same, and you can make a fully expanded A1200 just as good a performer as a [fully expanded] A4000...
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@mikeymike
I hope you and the rest of the mods don't mind, but I'm setting up a thread in talk-about for this; it's getting annoying to have any thread mentioning an A1200 turn into this argument :-D
---edit---
This isn't as I'm rejecting DoomMaster's opinions (OK, I am :-D) but I'd imagine a few other people must be getting tired...
Is the A1200 a toy computer and related arguments (http://amiga.org/forums/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10826&post_id=148328&order=0&viewmode=thread&pid=0&forum=1#148328)
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alx wrote:
@mikeymike
I hope you and the rest of the mods don't mind, but I'm setting up a thread in talk-about for this; it's getting annoying to have any thread mentioning an A1200 turn into this argument :-D
---edit---
This isn't as I'm rejecting DoomMaster's opinions (OK, I am :-D) but I'd imagine a few other people must be getting tired...
Yeah well us mods can't win no matter what we do. If we leave it people complain the thread was hijacked. If we remove the offending post (and by default the child posts) like i did yeterday we get nasty PMs.
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Yeah well us mods can't win no matter what we do. If we leave it people complain the thread was hijacked. If we remove the offending post (and by default the child posts) like i did yeterday we get nasty PMs.
Sorry to hear that, but you should know by now that a moderator can never win..
If it makes any different, I was glad you removed the posts in the C=1 thread, made it a much better read.. Seems my advice to Doommaster failed.. Ah well, his loss
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To Wain:
I have been working with computers since the first personal computer was released back in 1977, the Apple computer. Also, I have personally owned, operated, repaired and upgraded EVERY kind and type of personal computer ever made, including ALL of the different Amiga models. So, I do NOT need to prove myself to you or any one else for that matter. :-D
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To redrumloa:
You guys are ok in my book. I just like to get people here talking! :-D
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Sorry to hear that, but you should know by now that a moderator can never win..
Oh I know.
And for the record, i don't think C= put out any crap machines. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.
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500$ for an A4000 ? So far nobody has been offering anything on mine yet. :-(
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Sorry for the off-topic running guys, I've directed my response to the new thread in talk-about for the A1200 being a toy machine and other related arguments.
Oh yeah, and just for clarification for everybody, I do not think any amiga computer is crap, I loved my 2000 (RIP)
For the On-Topic:
An inexpensive A1200 is a really good buy, you've got more versatility in terms of upgrades and software than pretty much anything else these days. Plus it gets you one to toy around with until you know what you want to do with it before going for any big investments.
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@Jethro_Tull
The 1200 is a fun machine, upgraded or not. If
the machine is not yellowed and well cared for
$50 is a good price. Aside from (sometimes)
dodgy floppies, the Escom machines are great.
They were basically assembled from parts C= had
left behind, so the motherboards, *most* of the
chips/etc are from the C= era.
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@DoomMaster
Also, I have personally owned, operated, repaired and upgraded EVERY kind and type of personal computer ever made
Great news! I have an old Sony SMC 70G, but it produces dodgy graphics when using the genlock. Perhaps you have any clues?
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Thanks to everyone for the advice, I'm simply amazed by the number of replies my thread generated in such a short time! I certainly wasn't making a fuss over spending 50 Euros (like someone claimed), I just wanted an Amigan's opinion before buying the machine. I expected one or two replied in due time, certainly not this!! Thanks to all of you ppl, you're simply great, you know that, do you?
I've been following the Amiga scene right from the birth of the A1000, when it was considered an expensive dream machine, I remember the reviewer on PCW literally drooling all over it, heaping praise upon praise. I also remember fondly the A500 boom days, when everyone (and I mean everyone) owned one.
Amiga clubs were springing up everywhere, people were doing all kinds of thing with them, audio editing, writing music, astronomy, graphic design, CAD etc etc. It was the first affordable machine which could do all this (and more) easily. It's no wonder really a lot of people are still fond of the Amiga, it made using a computer a fun and enjoyable, just the way it should be.
Sadly, I can also recall the dark ages, when major magazines thinned down gradually to over priced brouchers and then disappeared. When the failure of the CDTV and the CD32 brought Commodore to it's knees. It's a pity, since in my opinion, they had a winner on their hands with the CD32. Unfortunatly it was competing with Sony, Sega, Nintendo and their huge budgets. Besides Psygnosis, all major software houses were already deserting the Amiga, and the killer games were released for the other consoles. With the subsequent buyouts, the Amiga brand slid more and more into oblivious, and hardware and software stagnated for ages.
And this brings me to my point, addressed to DoomMaster, currently all Amigas are toys, from the humbe A500 to the A4000T. Although some can still be usefull tools in niche areas, they're nothing more then toys nowadays, just face the reality. Besides, negative comments are simply the worst aspect of this community, don't fuel feuds and clashed! All machines have their merits and weaknesses, keeping in mind the times they were released in. Do we need Amiga VS Genesis, A1200 VS A2000 etc, AROS VS AOS VS MORHPOS and all this CRAP???
Thanks to all of you, I've made up my mind to be an Amiga owner once more, and phone the bloke tomorrow and arrange to view the machine, hoping he didn't sell it to someone else in the meantime. If all goes well, I'll be looking for a PPC card for the beastie on e-bay soon........ maybe redromula will find warehouse full of the things........
Thanks again.
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And this brings me to my point, addressed to DoomMaster, currently all Amigas are toys, from the humbe A500 to the A4000T. Although some can still be usefull tools in niche areas, they're nothing more then toys nowadays, just face the reality. Besides, negative comments are simply the worst aspect of this community, don't fuel feuds and clashed! All machines have their merits and weaknesses, keeping in mind the times they were released in. Do we need Amiga VS Genesis, A1200 VS A2000 etc, AROS VS AOS VS MORHPOS and all this CRAP???
Congratulations on wading through all of our crap, and welcome back! We like to yell at each other a lot because it's a pretty diverse group, but in all fairness, everyone is pretty helpful here too.
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DoomMaster wrote:
To Wain:
I have been working with computers since the first personal computer was released back in 1977, the Apple computer.
Do you enjoy being wrong all of the time? How does it feel? Well, if nothing else, it gets you attention.
I'd recommend having a quick look at this (http://www.old-computers.com) for a quick lesson in "first personal computers".
Just because the Apple was yours doesn't make it the first. (Hint: some folks who built a little box called the MITS Altair would disagree with you, as well as - now brace yourself - Commodore! (Witness the TIM-1 and KIM-1 systems).
As a matter of fact, you can go all the way back to 1960 with the Heathkit HC-1 analogue computer if you want to split hairs...but I'll let you off the hook and say you were only off by four years, not seventeen.
Oh, and incidentally, the Apple you purchased in 1977 wasn't even the first Apple. The '77 Apple was an Apple-II. The Apple Computer was released in 1976 - along with many, many other computers that year.
Finally, IBM released the first Personal Computer with the 5100 in September of 1975. Have a gander here (http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=795) for more information.
(Note: before you refuse to click the link and then proclaim that the IBM-PC wasn't released until 1981, the IBM-PC was model #5150. The model 5100 predated it by six years.)
Eagerly awaiting your reply!
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Hey I love the Amiga 1200 it's a great computer and it's fun expanding it.. I do animation and multimedia for a living. Even though it's very old technology it's hardly a toy..
I still love using deluxe paint's light table feature and the immediate feedback I get with pencil test animations. I can work on it like pencil and paper and I don't even realize it's part of the thought process (as I do when using photoshop and layers).
The Video Toaster (Amiga version) is still in use in many community access television stations and in many production houses (even though it's getting to be really old and everyone wants the High-Definition equipment..
So calling it a toy really isn't the case, but you definitely have to know the specific application you want it for.
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The A1200 is a motherboard that comes conveniently packaged in a sturdy plastic-and-metal packing case. Once you remove it from this shipping container and install it into a modified ATX tower, you're all set! :-D
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Whats with this stuff?
I love my A2000 , it's stuffed with all kinds of goodies, but I am looking for an A1200 because the only things I can't do is add a faster bus or AGA. That in itself is worth it. More software that will not use CBGFX is useable. Now we know why your called the doommaster
Chris
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@ DoomMaster
I have been working with computers since the first personal computer was released back in 1977
Ego... at... critical mass... cannot... hold it... much... longer!
{BOOM}
So, if you don't need to "prove yourself", how come you've mentioned this 1977 business twice in such a short period of time? Surely your comments and advice should speak volumes of your experience...
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Hell yeah!
I'm on my second A500 and my second A1200.
The Access and the AmigaOne are still my original ones, though :-)
Of course an A3000 or an A4000 (forget the A2000, it might seem nice but there's too little you can do with it compared to the newer Amigas, e.g. PCI, PPC etc). is more professional, but I've never owned one. My A1200 has PCI and manages 1600x1200, 60Hz 32bit Workbench. Bit slow refresh due to old 21" screen and non-overclocked Voodoo 3 (would need to overclock somewhat AND buy a new screen to go much above 60Hz at that resolution, I think).
There's a lot of fun to be had with a stock A1200 as well, which is why I tried to get my old one operational again this week. So far, no luck :-(
However, I have an Access board that provides me with the fun I need from Aga games. And an A500 for oldies ;-)
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But you have to tell people about your experience with micro computers from the 70's, people just arnt convinced these days by superior technical knowledge alone, you know.
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DoomMaster wrote:
Also, I have personally owned, operated, repaired and upgraded EVERY kind and type of personal computer ever made
Really? Including the C65, Amstrad CPC472, Amiga 2200, Enterprise 64/128, *ALL* the MSX models, SX-64, the Commodore CBM-II range, all the Archimedes/RiscPC models, the Apricot line of computers, the research machines 380Z, and 480Z, and the MITS Altair? Cool!
Edit: Incidentally, a friend of mine is attempting to own one of every home computer up to the mid-90s or so, and currently has almost 400 computers, and is nowhere near completing his goal ;-)
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Taking the thread completely off topic...
@Jethro_Tull:
I salute your choice of username and avatar (and your decision to return to the Amiga - welcome back!)
BTW, Stormwatch makes for a damn nice WB backdrop.
You probably ate it, thinking it was... a carrot!
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B00tDisk wrote:
The A1200 is a motherboard that comes conveniently packaged in a sturdy plastic-and-metal packing case. Once you remove it from this shipping container and install it into a modified ATX tower, you're all set! :-D
Hehe, but it's possibly easier to fit a Mediator onto it afterwards if you use an Amiga-ified tower rather than make it yourself.
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@ xyth
Thanks for your kind words xyth, your avatar beats mine hands down, it's simply awesome. Actually the album cover of Broadsword and the Beast is my all time favourite, did you know the runes on the boarder are actually the opening lyrics of the 'Broadsword' track?
If it's of any interest to you, I've been following the band since I was 8, and actually managed to catch up with them at the NEC in Birmingham during their 25th Anniversary Tour, and also managed to have a mugshot with Mr.Anderson and Mr.Barre backstage. The later was quite pleasant and talkative, asking me a myriad of questions about my job, music tastes and life in general. Martin's parents were also back stage and were very nice people, in comparison Ian autographed the various album / CD covers at lightning speed (although he didn't decline a single plea), said a quick word and disappeared!
I've used the Jethro Tull name with the usual 'flute player on a single leg' silhuette logo thoughout my demo coding days, many years ago. Everyone thought it was a really pecuiliar name, often mispronounced it and nobody knew about the band, even though they had won a grammy award!
@everyone
I realise I've gone way off topic here, but at least other Jethro Tull aficanados might reply ..........
if this long winded mail has got you curious about the band, you can download the following mpeg clip from 'www.laufi.de' or take a look at the official band website 'www.j-tull.com'
' I didn't care 'friend', I wasn't there 'friend', if it's the price of a pint is all that you need.... ask me again!'
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But you have to tell people about your experience with micro computers from the 70's, people just arnt convinced these days by superior technical knowledge alone, you know.
Why not just say you've got an MCSE? :-D
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I've never had a chance to see Jethro Tull live, they don't tend to come down my way (New Zealand) too often. I'm incredibly jealous.
I've been a huge fan ever since I discovered them in 1992 at the tender age of 14.
As this thread might completely lose it's focus if I start singing the praises of Jethro Tull, I thought I might start a new thread in Talk About. Interesting to see if anyone else shows up.
JT fans do tend to show up in the strangest of placest. It's like we're a secret masonic type club or something :)
But your new shoes are worn at the heels,
And your suntan does rapidly peels,
And your wise men don't know how it feels,
To be thick as a brick.
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The thread is forking into a 'Everyone Vs DoomMaster' and a 'Toolheads' thread, I'm defninitly not complaining about the later, it's evolving in quite a pleasant and interesting way, unless DoomMaster declares himself to be a Tull fan! You're perfectly right, Tull fans spring up when you least expect them!
The show I've mentioned was awesome, but musically the best live concert I've been to was by Deep Purple, the literally held the crowd in their hands throughout the whole set, everyone singing along all the tracks, with breathtaking solos by all the members. Unbeleivable! Personally I'm jelous of those who attended the Passion Play and Thick as a Brick concerts, I've often read they were a one of a kind thing.....
'Let me tell you the tales of your life of
your love and the cut of the knife
the tireless oppression
the wisdom instilled
the desire to kill or be killed.
Let me sing of the losers who lie in the street as the last bus goes by.
The pavements ar empty: the gutters run red
while the fool toasts his god in the sky.'
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first personal computer was released back in 1977, the Apple computer
Im sure it was not apple who had the first personal computer. :-?
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Incidentally, a friend of mine is attempting to own one of every home computer up to the mid-90s or so, and currently has almost 400 computers, and is nowhere near completing his goal
Well somewhere i have an atari portfolio its an old dos based hanheld thing. :-)
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I got confused about this thread but I think I got it now : You have to be a Jethro Tull fan, preferably since the 70's, to be considered an expert on these pages, and of course you can not be called doommaster :-P
Now how about this advice? Should he or shouldn't he buy ? I, for one, think it's about time we found out. :-)
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I've got a Kaypro IV (not a Kaypro 4 mind you) that I've been trying to wire an RLL hard drive to, any ideas?
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@tintin
We already established that he SHOULD, he also said he is going to.
(YAY!! Another Amigan returns!)
:-D
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Ah, that how it goes, first we give the advise the guy needs and then, just for fun, we continue the thread with other stuff. That's cool.
I just thought it was quite funny how threads can meander from one subject to the next. 8-)
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olegil wrote:
B00tDisk wrote:
The A1200 is a motherboard that comes conveniently packaged in a sturdy plastic-and-metal packing case. Once you remove it from this shipping container and install it into a modified ATX tower, you're all set! :-D
Hehe, but it's possibly easier to fit a Mediator onto it afterwards if you use an Amiga-ified tower rather than make it yourself.
Oh come on! That's why God created Dremel tools and soldering irons!!! :-)
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It is kind of fun to feel that I almost made a mistake in even buying the A2000, and shoulda got a 1200 cause of cheaper '060, color TV outs and AGA gfx, but see it hyped by just *one guy* on the forum ;).
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jeffimix wrote:
It is kind of fun to feel that I almost made a mistake in even buying the A2000, and shoulda got a 1200 cause of cheaper '060, color TV outs and AGA gfx, but see it hyped by just *one guy* on the forum ;).
jeff, it really depends on what you want to get out of it.
If it's just games, you probably would want a (*cough*toy*cough*) A1200, it would probably do you more good.
But it really depends, unless you go for an external CD drive, adding a CD drive to an A1200 is probably more expensive than to an A2000.
I would prefer an A2000, but then I would really prefer my A 4000 T, or just a A3000(T) or A4000 if I could get hold of one.
Zorro III is important to me, but I'm not a games user, and I want a graphics card, and lots of space.
Amigas are not much fun to me these days without a decent graphics card.
IMHO.