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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Miloo on December 08, 2008, 04:39:13 PM
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There are a few 68060 rev 6 on ebay, has anyone bought any. I've just asked one seller what the numbers are down the left hand side of the cpu and he's send a reply full of '???????'s'.
I ask because I'm not sure of the authenticity of them.
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I don't think chinese have neither the technology nor the motivation to duplicate the 68060. They're no 1 recyclers of electronic products now, most probably those 68060 were recycled from god knows whatever system that ended up in hong kong.
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You don't think "the Chinese" have the technology?
Would it surprise you to know that 5 out of 6 major chip foundaries capable of the highest scale of integration nowadayse are located in China, Korea, or Taiwan? In the last 5-10 years, they have shut-down/moved/sold-out of the US,Japan, and other countries.. Where do you think chips are comming from now, if not China?
My brother is an applications engineer for Legerity (Communications processor division of AMD) and spends MOST of his time in China nowadayze.. Im pretty sure "the Chinese" have the technology to reproduce the 68060, and much more modern processors as well.
Its very possible that some company has comissioned a new production run of 68060. It's a proven architecture, and still makes alot of sense for certain industrial/embedded applications. If this is the case, I wouldnt be surprised at all if the chips were being produced in China..
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prfffffffffttt ... of course they have the technology to produce the silicon, they don't have the technology to replicate what's inside. And no reason as well. Why duplicate an obsolete useless processor ?
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perhaps if this processor was usless it wouldnt be that pricey
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countzero wrote:
prfffffffffttt ... of course they have the technology to produce the silicon, they don't have the technology to replicate what's inside. And no reason as well. Why duplicate an obsolete useless processor ?
Freescale still produces and sales them. Well, they are not cheap but they are available.
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And as most fake and copy chips, consoles etc are made by the factory making the stuff for the proper companies on the sly so to speak, its all very plausible
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Dear China Inc.
Please produce a run of 2000 68060 CPUs @800 Mhz for me.
Thank you very much.
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ChaosLord wrote:
Dear China Inc.
Please produce a run of 2000 68060 CPUs @800 Mhz for me.
Thank you very much.
Would you like fire extinguishers included or will you provide your own?
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The most plausible explanation is that the chips are recycled, the date code on the chip in the pic says it was made in 99 (a year that mask was produced). Apparently some lesser rated chips were relabeled a while back, but I don't think that's the case here.
$55 isn't that expensive for Rev 6 '060s btw, although I've seen them even cheaper from sellers who don't know amiganerds are after them. ;-)
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@countzero
Absolutely agree with you. You mileage may vary. Basically you get what you pay for $30-50 price range will get you a recycled cpu. :lol:
We can sell a XC68060RC50 cpu for $100-125...
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39398
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@Miloo
I just ordered one, when it arrives I'll let you know.
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the marking down the left hand side is not that important as some E41J end with 002.
if it ends with 004 or higher this is certain to be a E41J.
another way to check if its real is to overclock it to say 75Mhz & above.
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JJ wrote:
And as most fake and copy chips, consoles etc are made by the factory making the stuff for the proper companies on the sly so to speak, its all very plausible
Yeah I wouldnt be surprised if that is happening. The Customs services in countries whose laws protect patents/intellectual property rights, etc. do a pretty good job of keeping large shipments of counterfeit goods out of their markets. But thats not to say that the stuff isnt being manufactured on a smaller scale and sold elsewhere. The only thing that prevents it from happening on a larger scale is their dependance on manufacturing contracts from legitimate companies whose products serve bigger markets...
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@-D-
I ordered one as well just after I put this post up. The guys feedback was ok.
What would it cost to remark these cpus anyway - I paid £29 for one and it looks as if the seller has sold about 5 or 6 in the past 2 months - would it really be cost effective remarking old chips?
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ebay...link?
Rich
ny
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230300294387&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=013
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You don't think "the Chinese" have the technology?
Not their own, no.
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AFAIK the only "fake" was a picture of one relabeled to a full (non-existent) 75MHz part. I don't know if anyone was actually scammed. In this case, I don't think it would be worth the trouble just to sell the odd CPU to an amiga or atari user. Plus, anyone can check the real revision in a matter of minutes and post scathing feedback... hardly worth it over $50.
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What" The Chinese don't have the ability to copy 15 year old technology? What poppycock. They are more advanced than most Western Countries in terms of electronics. They are more than capable of producing clones of decade and a half year old tecnology in their sleep.
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once again, I'm not talking about producing the silicon. Tell me one leading semiconductor design company that hails from china.
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China are not making any new 060 CPU's. They are being reclaimed from routers or warehouse clearances of NOS.
As for them making new ones. They don't have the mask set, the fab, the stream file or the source/schematics. We won't be seeing them making clones.
What you have to look out for are 040 CPU's marked as 060 CPU's or earlier 060 CPU's marked as rev 6
It's pretty easy to spot them.
Insist on a non-stock photo. Most of the adverts on ebay use the same photograph over and over. Insist on a photo of the item you are buying.
All FULL rev 6 parts I have seen are marked MC68060RC50 if it says anything else then you have to think twice.
The earliest rev 6 parts were manufactured in 1999. If the date code (four digits, two for the year, two for the week, i.e. 9952) is earlier then it is questionable. The latest I've seen were 0140 (2001, week 40).
They have the Mask number E41J. Most are prefixed by 71.
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countzero wrote:
once again, I'm not talking about producing the silicon. Tell me one leading semiconductor design company that hails from china.
Not sure, that's a little confusing. First sentence sounds like your talking about companies that are "producing the silicon" and the second sentence sounds like asking for a "design company" that hails from China.
I know for sure on the "producing the silicon" side that Hynix (worlds second largest manufacture of RAM) just built a brand new $2 billion 12" fab in China (300mm). Hence I no longer have a job at the 8" (200mm) fab I worked at. But most companies are going to 12" and it costs a lot to try to upgrade, plus U.S. wages vs China, I'd probably go there too. :-)
Though not sure what products the 12" fab in China is making, but Hynix fabs make RAM, CCDs, flash ram for iPods etc...
EDIT:
Intels new $2.5billion 12" fab is suppose to begin production in 2010, but I don't if they have any current 8" or other fabs over there right now.
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countzero wrote:
once again, I'm not talking about producing the silicon. Tell me one leading semiconductor design company that hails from china.
If they're producing "clones"... why would they do it under the banner of a *leading semiconductor design company* (Whatever that means, there are lots of different semiconductor/integrated devices, not every company is like Maxim and produce almost almost every possible device they can. Most focus on a specific market.) ... That would be a little silly wouldn't it?
I doubt the Chinese would bother producing clones of an ancient chip that there is no market for, but that's not to say there's no one in the whole country that couldn't have a crack it if they wanted to. There are plenty of complex bootleg devices coming out of China. Maybe you're believing in Mt. Fuji a little too much?
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I don't understand why some get touched just so that I state some facts. You got some Chinese ancestry or something ? I'm not belittling the Chinese here just stating some facts (And I'm not Japanese anyway). OK of course they can do it if the Chinese government set up a program to 'Duplicate the 68060', we're talking about people with a space program here. But it's no walk in the park for your average Yang who duplicates casio game watches. That's what I mean. Thank you and good day.
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I'm not belittling the Chinese here just stating some facts (And I'm not Japanese anyway).
Well, I'm writting this from my fiancee's apartment in Hokkaido, so maybe I should be making the same assumptions about the Chinese as you...
OK of course they can do it if the Chinese government set up a program to 'Duplicate the 68060',
If there was a market for clones of this device there would be a fab in China producing those clones. Just as there are fabs in China pumping out clones of *popular* devices.
we're talking about people with a space program here. But it's no walk in the park for your average Yang who duplicates casio game watches.
But you said there was no one in China's population of 1,321,851,888 (Google) that could clone the all mighty 68060... I'm pretty sure their guys that built a home grown MIPS would have something to say about that, but we'll all have to rely on your superior knowledge of every single person in China here won't we.
That's what I mean. Thank you and good day.
I'm pretty sure you made a massive blanket statement about ability of the Chinese.
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I bought a 68060 for my Apollo 1260 off eBay from a seller called "IC China" who, not suprisingly, is based in China.
The item was delivered very quickly to the UK, was well packaged, and was exactly as described.
It was a MC68060RC60 Revision 6 Mask 71E41J. Running CPU060 confirmed this. I paid $72 (which at the time was £34).
Steve.
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weirdami wrote:
You don't think "the Chinese" have the technology?
Not their own, no.
Don't you believe it! It's a far bigger Communistic State than Russia! :roll:
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cantido wrote:
I'm pretty sure their guys that built a home grown MIPS would have something to say about that
I bet you serious money that either :
A) They developed a 20 yo MIPS, fun but practically useless in modern applications.
B) They stole it.
The modern MIPS is available as RTL code, easily stolen and re-used, the 68060 was created using schematic capture for a fab that no longer exists for a technology that no-one uses anymore using tools that dont exist anymore. Even if you had the source it would take man years to convert. Even if you had the masks you couldn't make more as the FAB that used them closed down years ago and non of the modern FAB's use compatible process techniques.
Believe me, they did not reverse engineer and re-create a 68060. The documentation is extremely limited on how exactly the 68060 works.
Plus there is no market for volume 68060 chips.
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alexh wrote:
Believe me, they did not reverse engineer and re-create a 68060. The documentation is extremely limited on how exactly the 68060 works.
Plus there is no market for volume 68060 chips.
Exactly, there is no market for volume. It wouldn't make sense. China is the leading recycler of electronics (not in a green way either). It only makes sense to resell any parts of value. A couple dozen 68060 pulls here and there eagerly gobbled up by Amigans and Atarians will make a little money. Reverse engineering and producing clones would never make back development costs.
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It says that chips are for collection only, after saying it's 100% working. Anyone bought from him ? I'd get 1 or 2 but I want to be sure it's in decent state.
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Looking at his plethora of CPU's, one of the 060 pics he has shows what looks like a big round screwdriver gouge in it.
I'd be hoping not to receive something looking like that:
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So, for you folks that are buying these loose 060 cpu's, what are you planning to do with them?
Upgrade an existing 040 board?
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another way to tell if the CPU is real is to clean it ( watch the white marking come off ( and im not joking ).
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broken wrote:
what are you planning to do with them?
Upgrade an existing 040 board?
Or overclock an existing 060 board.
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what are these MC68060FE133 cpus ?
http://www.chinaicmart.com/series-MC6/MC68060.html
A new Minimig with a 68060 would be nice :)
Ordering large batches of parts would reduce the price a fair bit.
If only the Minimig clone makers work together and order parts together.
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I have no idea and haven't gotten a reply when I've asked before, the datasheet (pdf) linked too is about the 68060 but nothing actually mentions the FE133 version.
I'd suggest that it doesn't actually exist and is possibly a mistake or something since neither Motorola nor FreeScale have any information regarding a cpu with that designation.
It'd be nice to find out though.
Andy
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Excuse my ignorance, but does a 68060 fit into a 68040 socket with no modifications?
I have a Warp Engine 3040 Accelerator in my A4000 and I wouldn't mind an easy upgrade to a 68060.
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Darrin wrote:
Excuse my ignorance, but does a 68060 fit into a 68040 socket with no modifications?
I have a Warp Engine 3040 Accelerator in my A4000 and I wouldn't mind an easy upgrade to a 68060.
You need to install a voltage regulator, install a new eprom, replace the crystal oscillator and replace the cpu.
PG (http://www.amiga.org/userinfo.php?uid=9080) here at Amiga.org knows how to do it :-)
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taunusand wrote:
You need to install a voltage regulator, install a new eprom, replace the crystal oscillator and replace the cpu.
PG (http://www.amiga.org/userinfo.php?uid=9080) here at Amiga.org knows how to do it :-)
Ah, thanks. In other words, I can't do it without breaking it. :-D
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cheers for the info.
The FE is mentioned in the PDF, with specific connections. I have no idea what the 133 is.
Has anyone tried ordering from these companies ?
maybe even standard 68060 cpus could be had cheaply.
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Darrin wrote:
Excuse my ignorance, but does a 68060 fit into a 68040 socket with no modifications?
I have a Warp Engine 3040 Accelerator in my A4000 and I wouldn't mind an easy upgrade to a 68060.
Unfortunately, the Warp Engine is not compatible with the 060, since the company never made a 060 version of it, and so no proper ROM/PLD commands/startup.
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-D- wrote:
@Miloo
I just ordered one, when it arrives I'll let you know.
How did you go?
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Hasn't arrived yet, but hopefully I'll get it in time for the weekend... (and hopefully it works, and overclocks, lol)
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Metalguy66 wrote:
You don't think "the Chinese" have the technology?
Would it surprise you to know that 5 out of 6 major chip foundaries capable of the highest scale of integration nowadayse are located in China, Korea, or Taiwan? In the last 5-10 years, they have shut-down/moved/sold-out of the US,Japan, and other countries.. Where do you think chips are comming from now, if not China?
My brother is an applications engineer for Legerity (Communications processor division of AMD) and spends MOST of his time in China nowadayze.. Im pretty sure "the Chinese" have the technology to reproduce the 68060, and much more modern processors as well.
http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2000/08/18/17356/amd-spin-off-legerity-names-former-compaq-exec-as-cfo.htm
"Last month, AMD completed the sale of 90 percent of its Communication Products Division for about $375 million in cash to the investment firm Francisco Partners. The newly acquired assets then became Legerity, an independent company. AMD still owns 10 percent of Legerity's shares."
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The FE is the package type.
RC = Ceramic (MC68xx060RC = 206 pin PGA)
FE = Plastic (MC68xx060FE = 208 pin CQFP)
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/176/68xxxut9.png)
http://www.motorola.com.cn/semiconductors/mcudsp/forms/selector_guide/sg186_Std_Embedded_Controller_rev9.pdf
I am pretty sure they never made any full MC68060 in FE only the LC and EC.
Later model Apollo 1260's used the FE variants and a PCB adapter to convert them to PGA pinout.
I am also pretty sure they never made anything faster than an MC68LC060FE75
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Darrin wrote:
taunusand wrote:
You need to install a voltage regulator, install a new eprom, replace the crystal oscillator and replace the cpu.
PG (http://www.amiga.org/userinfo.php?uid=9080) here at Amiga.org knows how to do it :-)
Ah, thanks. In other words, I can't do it without breaking it. :-D
That is why I bougt a real 060 card and upgraded my A4000 instead of my A1200 :-D
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I bought 2 but still have to get an accelerator to test it...
And it still hasn't arrived yet...
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Ah thanks for clarifying that Alex. That would suggest though that its a full 68060 in plastic QFP format running at 133Mhz but as you say there really doesn't seem to be any information about any such 68060 anywhere/ever.
Its not like you could just order one and plop it onto an existing board either since all of the amiga accelerators used the through-hole. Unless someone wants to risk destroying their late model Apollo 1260 and it's PGA adapter.
Andy
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Well, mine showed up today... but unfortunately, the mailman was too lazy to walk to the door (which they are required to do btw), and left a slip in the mailbox instead... so it'll be Monday eve before I can check it out. :evil:
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I'd be curious to see a picture of a fake FE133
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-D- wrote:
Well, mine showed up today... but unfortunately, the mailman was too lazy to walk to the door (which they are required to do btw), and left a slip in the mailbox instead... so it'll be Monday eve before I can check it out. :evil:
Ah, you have one of those lazy sods too?
I waited for a package once and then wandered down the driveway to collect the mail and found a "We tried to deliver this package but you were out" slip. I gave the local post office a roasting for that and haven't had any trouble since.
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taunusand wrote:
That is why I bougt a real 060 card and upgraded my A4000 instead of my A1200 :-D
I've just upgraded my A4000/40 @ 25Mhz 0MB to the card I mentioned as it happened to be offered to me at the right time. I don't really need a 68060, but it's one of those things that you keep feeling the need to install. :-D
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-D- wrote:
Well, mine showed up today... but unfortunately, the mailman was too lazy to walk to the door (which they are required to do btw), and left a slip in the mailbox instead... so it'll be Monday eve before I can check it out. :evil:
Maybe they dont walk up to your door on Sundays? - Double time?? :lol:
I gotta do summat myself. My CSMKIII died on me 2 days ago & it's looking like the CPU is to blame! It's the only thing I can't swap out.
Will be interesting to hear of your expeience.
@ all
As a matter of interest, billy over there in China does have an awful lot of different 68xxx chips.
I think he' asking a bit much for the 60Mhz ones though!
Link (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Motorola-MC-68060-RC-60-71E41J-100-WORKING_W0QQitemZ230311572091QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item230311572091&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177)
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Kin-Hell wrote:
-D- wrote:
Well, mine showed up today... but unfortunately, the mailman was too lazy to walk to the door (which they are required to do btw), and left a slip in the mailbox instead... so it'll be Monday eve before I can check it out. :evil:
Maybe they dont walk up to your door on Sundays? - Double time?? :lol:
I gotta do summat myself. My CSMKIII died on me 2 days ago & it's looking like the CPU is to blame! It's the only thing I can't swap out.
Will be interesting to hear of your expeience.
@ all
As a matter of interest, billy over there in China does have an awful lot of different 68xxx chips.
I think he' asking a bit much for the 60Mhz ones though!
Link (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Motorola-MC-68060-RC-60-71E41J-100-WORKING_W0QQitemZ230311572091QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item230311572091&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177)
thats a real 68060 well done!
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"I think he' asking a bit much for the 60Mhz ones though!
Link"
Does the latest mask have any difference between the RC50 and RC60 versions or it's just labelling ?
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Had a chance to test mine, it looks new and is absolutely a Rev 6. (I'll try to get a pic and maybe a WhichAmiga screenie up sometime later.) According to the date code it was manufactured in '02. The seller is fine, packed everything well/etc, totally recommended.
Unfortunately, I can't really test overclocking, as it seems the TekMagic won't run an '060 at '040 BCLK like the Apollo cards (won't boot), and the Rev 6 in my Apollo 1260 is soldered. :/ It does run just fine at 64MHz 1:1, but I don't want to risk pushing the bus any further without research.
In a few days I'll compare the temperatures of the Rev 1 and Rev 6 in the same card. The Rev 6 feels a bit cooler, maybe 5c or so. (A small copper heatsink like the enzotech CNB-SL1 makes a massive difference in temperature, keeps them cool even at 80MHz.)
In regard to some of the pics from the seller where it looks like the face of the chip is damaged, it looks to me like some glue residue from the factory Motorola heatsinks, like seen on the VMEbus boards. Mine was in absolutely perfect condition though. :pint:
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delshay wrote:
thats a real 68060 well done!
??
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OK, as promised some temperatures.
Load temps after 1 hour of Quake (demo loops), smallest window and screensize. 50MHz, A2000 case, no additional cooling (just the PSU fan). Measured with my good 'ol 3M Scotchtrak, at the warmest spot on the chip I could find. Ambient 19C.
Idle/Load
Rev 1: 55/62C
Rev 6: 51/57C
Roughly a 5C difference, IMHO not bad for 2 revisions of the same chip (the process shrink obviously helped).
Then I added an enzotech cnb-s1l + ceramique to the Rev 6, and measured again:
44/51C - A decent improvement, load was now where it idled without a heatsink! Ambient was also up a few degrees from the earlier tests. Temp might even come down a degree or so more after the paste breaks in.. :p
The above plus a small fan, and amazingly the load temperature drops to between 28 and 35C, depending on the amount of airflow (doesn't take much, an undervolted 40mm will do). On my Apollo 1260, load is always under 50C at 80MHz, in the desktop case, with the same copper cooler and a 40mm fan at 9v.
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delshay wrote:
Kin-Hell wrote:
I think he' asking a bit much for the 60Mhz ones though!
Link (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Motorola-MC-68060-RC-60-71E41J-100-WORKING_W0QQitemZ230311572091QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item230311572091&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177)
thats a real 68060 well done!
I'm pretty much sure that's an RC50 that has been re-marked. The number along the edge doesn't correspond. Although I have to admit that there is very little information on them.
Anyhow they are identical internally to RC50 and so cannot realistically demand a higher price.
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i dont think so. ihave just installed a similar piece onto my csppc. the number under the mask revision says gaj99368a
and the one on te edge respectively: s23328-002. scout recognizes the unit as full 68060 rev.6. in a practical test it doesnt also show the flaws of my former 060 rev.1.
or am i missing some point?
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I've seen several MC68060RC60's marked S23328-002 but non marked S23328-004 but I've only got a very small sample set (3)
http://www.icphotos.org/photo/MC68060RC60-large.html
Whereas all my MC68060RC50's (and I've got a lot manufactured over a large time period!) are all marked S23328-004
Admittedly I have no idea what this number is.
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Just thought I'd let you guys know I got a MC68060RC50 off the same lzf guy on ebay, and the markings on mine are more recent.
It is marked down the side as S23328-006, and up the top as 71E41J QQDJ0429C MALAYSIA.
Also instead of the Motorola logo it has the Freescale logo.
Is it possible to just simply pop this into a CSPPC or a CSMK3? Do those have 68060 sockets? CPU060 should hopefully say it is the real thing.
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if your card has a socketed processor, then it should be no problem. all my cyberstorms mk1 and ppc have and i had never an slightest issue to replace the 060 cpu. just check the orientation first and dont use brute force. after the system is up and running again scout will tell you the truth.
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Calgor wrote:
It is marked down the side as S23328-006, and up the top as 71E41J QQDJ0429C MALAYSIA.Also instead of the Motorola logo it has the Freescale logo.
Oooo. Photo required :-o
Calgor wrote:
Is it possible to just simply pop this into a CSPPC or a CSMK3?
Yes as long as it is an 060 version. I think there are 040 versions of the CSPPC which require moding, jumpers changing, voltage regulators replacing etc.
Calgor wrote:
Do those have 68060 sockets?
Yes but they are very, very, very fragile. Take care not breaking it when removing and inserting the CPU as the repair is ~€150 at Amiga repair center in France.
Why on earth did they not use a "thru-hole" PCB design?
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alexh wrote:
Calgor wrote:
It is marked down the side as S23328-006, and up the top as 71E41J QQDJ0429C MALAYSIA.Also instead of the Motorola logo it has the Freescale logo.
Oooo. Photo required :-o
New (i.e. since FreeScale) 68060s? I didn't think they made them and were just selling off stock.
alexh wrote:
Calgor wrote:
Do those have 68060 sockets?
Yes but they are very, very, very fragile. Take care not breaking it when removing and inserting the CPU as the repair is ~€150 at Amiga repair center in France.
Why on earth did they not use a "thru-hole" PCB design?
Cost perhaps? Though I'd have though thru-hole would be cheaper (without knowing anything at all about board manufacture I hasten to add) :-D
Andy
PS: Alex, sorry I've never gotten back to you about my MiniMig, I've never been able to get decent photos of the area. Just so you know.
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Hi all fellow amigans, just wondered if you could help me, i have a blizzard 1240 which i converted in to full revision 6 mc68060RC50 everything works as it should but i have replaced the 50mhz crystal with 70 and 80mhz ones trying to experiment but the board will not boot just flashes the amiga power led and resets works fine at 66mhz any ideas why it wont overclock further ?, the 060 is the full rev 6 version as i too bought it from IC china on ebay. I am using 60ns 64mb simm as i cant find any 50ns ram that works, do you know some where that sells that is compatible, also i installed a 3.3 volt fixed voltage regulator could this be the problem because i have heard that more voltage is required for the 060 at faster speeds. finally i have heard people on this forum have clocked 060s rev 6 to 80mhz using 50ns ram, is this correct ?
any help is much appreciated
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I'm the guy that did the CSMK3 at 80MHz with 50ns SIMMs. I have since had to slow it down as I had a few errors. I think it's a limitation of the memory controller chip and not the 50ns SIMMs or rev 6 68060 (has heatsink & fan). I have a 75 MHz oscillator on the way. The CSMK3 has a place for a 2nd oscillator to clock the 68060 separate from the SCSI and motherboard clock input. Most accelerators do not allow this and changing the oscillator may also overclock the motherboard. This does make the custom chips faster but can cause problems when overclocked too much. The AGA is a little better at overclocking than ECS in my experience and you should get away with at least a 60MHz oscillator if that clock is fed into the Amiga (it's actually halfed). You want to start with lower amounts of overclocking and work your way up feeling how hot chips get and looking for errors. If my guess is correct, you will be limited to about 60 MHz but I have no experience with your accelerator. You can find some great info on Amiga overclocking here...
http://members.iinet.net.au/~davem2/amiga.html
I found my Crucial 50ns 32Mb EDO SIMMs on Ebay. They are not common but do pop up from time to time. Most if not all will be EDO. Make sure they are 5 volts!
Your voltage regulator should be fine. The voltage doesn't change with a faster processor. It draws more amps.
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hi mate, thanks very much for the info, i will try and get 50ns compatible simm you mention on ebay and overclock in small steps to see what my blizzard will actually achieve
Thanks again
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miggy1974 wrote:
hi mate, thanks very much for the info, i will try and get 50ns compatible simm you mention on ebay and overclock in small steps to see what my blizzard will actually achieve
Thanks again
The Blizzard 1260 usually hits 66MHz OK, the SCSI kit may or may not work at that clock depending on the revision of the SCSI kit. Mine started to act funny around 70-72MHz.
As matthey stated, the external bus is a limiting factor. If you can set the clock divider to 040 setting (BCLK 1/2 PCLK), in theory 80MHz should be no problem, RAM would then run at 40MHz. On the Apollo cards the divider is easily set with a jumper. (Even with the RAM at 1/2 CPU, the thing flies at 80MHz, so it's worth exploring if you can figure it out.) Not overclocking the bus puts a lot less stress on the card IMHO.
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Is the apollo a better choice for overclocking the 68060 on?
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DoogUK wrote:
Is the apollo a better choice for overclocking the 68060 on?
It's definitely the easiest, for sure. Running the bus at 1/2 CPU clock is easy on the card, and the Apollo has a nice RAM controller, so 40MHz RAM is still plenty fast.
Here's a bustest benchmark from an Apollo 1260 at 80MHz CPU/40MHz RAM:
BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv) Buffer: 262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
========================================================================
memtype addr op cycle calib bandwidth
fast $01458000 readw 53.7 ns normal 37.2 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01458000 readl 95.5 ns normal 41.9 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01458000 readm 95.6 ns normal 41.8 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01458000 writew 70.5 ns normal 28.4 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01458000 writel 140.9 ns normal 28.4 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01458000 writem 141.1 ns normal 28.3 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00060000 readw 968.1 ns normal 2.1 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00060000 readl 970.0 ns normal 4.1 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00060000 readm 970.3 ns normal 4.1 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00060000 writew 613.1 ns normal 3.3 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00060000 writel 614.0 ns normal 6.5 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00060000 writem 614.1 ns normal 6.5 * 10^6 byte/s
Now, here's one from a CSMK3 at 50MHz CPU/RAM:
BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv) Buffer: 262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
========================================================================
memtype addr op cycle calib bandwidth
fast $08718000 readw 64.2 ns normal 31.2 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08718000 readl 107.8 ns normal 37.1 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08718000 readm 108.9 ns normal 36.7 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08718000 writew 72.3 ns normal 27.7 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08718000 writel 144.9 ns normal 27.6 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08718000 writem 150.2 ns normal 26.6 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00130000 readw 1005.6 ns normal 2.0 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00130000 readl 1006.3 ns normal 4.0 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00130000 readm 1005.7 ns normal 4.0 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00130000 writew 612.7 ns normal 3.3 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00130000 writel 612.9 ns normal 6.5 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00130000 writem 614.4 ns normal 6.5 * 10^6 byte/s
As you can see, even with a 10MHz disadvantage in RAM speed, this setup on the Apollo is still damn fast (as far as classic miggys go, LOL).
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Calgor wrote:
Just thought I'd let you guys know I got a MC68060RC50 off the same lzf guy on ebay, and the markings on mine are more recent.
It is marked down the side as S23328-006, and up the top as 71E41J QQDJ0429C MALAYSIA.
Also instead of the Motorola logo it has the Freescale logo.
Is it possible to just simply pop this into a CSPPC or a CSMK3? Do those have 68060 sockets? CPU060 should hopefully say it is the real thing.
i also have MC68060RC60 with the marking down the left hand side ending with 004 but i also have two ending with 006.
when overclocking voltage is also important as is the speed of simm.
iv had a Blizzard PPC with a 80Mhz bus speed with no precharge set in the Blizzard PPC RAM menu.
Blizzard PPC modifyed with a single OSC.
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I have also bought one of the latest mask 060's from china and hopefuly getting put on my apollo 1240 when it gets back from repair.
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Calgor wrote:
Just thought I'd let you guys know I got a MC68060RC50 off the same lzf guy on ebay instead of the Motorola logo it has the Freescale logo.
Where is the photo of this?? Come on, use your phone or something.
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They're most likely picked from old hardware. I got two 060/50 from a friend a number of years ago that he rescued from discarded cards from some industrial robots. They just switched the cards when something went bad and threw the old one away.
These are probably scavenged in a similar way by someone who knew there is a market for them.
Never had the opportunity to test if those CPU's I've got are ok or not since I have to rebuild my CS MK-II to do that and if they don't work I'll have to convert it back again...
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perhaps if this processor was usless it wouldnt be that pricey
Perhaps it would be cheaper if had been produced in higher quantities (ie: was usefull for a lot of people)
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I got my 75MHz oscillator today and so far it's been rock solid in my CSMK3. Here's my bustest...
BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv) Buffer: 262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
========================================================================
memtype addr op cycle calib bandwidth
fast $08AB0000 readw 35.7 ns normal 56.0 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08AB0000 readl 58.6 ns normal 68.3 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08AB0000 readm 59.7 ns normal 67.0 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08AB0000 writew 39.6 ns normal 50.5 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08AB0000 writel 79.3 ns normal 50.5 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08AB0000 writem 82.8 ns normal 48.3 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00020000 readw 859.6 ns normal 2.3 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00020000 readl 860.1 ns normal 4.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00020000 readm 859.8 ns normal 4.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00020000 writew 565.3 ns normal 3.5 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00020000 writel 565.6 ns normal 7.1 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00020000 writem 565.8 ns normal 7.1 * 10^6 byte/s
Nice memory speedup from overclocking. Processor speed is still more important because of
the caches though. I have heard of a guy with an Apollo '060 that claimed 100 MHz. Bad
thing about the Apollo is the bad/broken SCSI. The Quickpack '060 with EDO SIMMs would
have faster memory access than my CSMK3. I wonder how well they overclock. One last note
about SIMMs. They should be as least as fast as they are marked but some that are not
marked fast are. For example, I have some 16Mb SIMMs that are marked 60ns but tested 47ns
on a SIMM tester. Some SIMMs may work but cause problems or produce errors later when they
heat up. Some accellerators just don't like certain SIMMs. The best thing is to try
different SIMMs. Also, fit as few of SIMMs as possible during testing.
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simms can go 43ns or was it 45ns.
you can also build your own simms if you are good at soldering,desolder the old chip off the simm card and replace with faster ones ( custom built ).
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matthey wrote:
I got my 75MHz oscillator today and so far it's been rock solid in my CSMK3. Here's my bustest...
BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv) Buffer: 262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
========================================================================
memtype addr op cycle calib bandwidth
fast $08AB0000 readw 35.7 ns normal 56.0 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08AB0000 readl 58.6 ns normal 68.3 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08AB0000 readm 59.7 ns normal 67.0 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08AB0000 writew 39.6 ns normal 50.5 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08AB0000 writel 79.3 ns normal 50.5 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $08AB0000 writem 82.8 ns normal 48.3 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00020000 readw 859.6 ns normal 2.3 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00020000 readl 860.1 ns normal 4.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00020000 readm 859.8 ns normal 4.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00020000 writew 565.3 ns normal 3.5 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00020000 writel 565.6 ns normal 7.1 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00020000 writem 565.8 ns normal 7.1 * 10^6 byte/s
:-o That's quick. I can match your chip numbers if I boot without startup (or use a low-res screenmode), no way to come near the fastram speed though, LOL.
Any chance you could to a Quake timedemo sometime (no hurry), default settings with AGA/NTSC? It would be interesting to see what kind of effect the fast memory has on the result.
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True, the Chinese are leaders today in chip technology. Learning the language one day may prove very useful.
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@-D-
Overclocking the CSMK3 to 75 MHz now gives better memory performance than the stock Quikpack 68060 with EDO (+15-20%)...
http://www.hd-zone.com/amiga/quickpak.html
I would like to see what an overclocked Quikpack would do. I've never heard of anyone overclocking one by very much. If the Natami ever comes out it would probably be able to double these numbers!
I currently have the CSMK3 in my 3000T (no AGA) but I'll try putting it back in my 4000T pretty soon. I have Clickboom Quake and QuakeGL (Mediator+Voodoo4) installed and the QuakeGL is a little faster, looks nicer, and is less buggy. I play in 640x400 as 640x480 slows down too much at times. The Voodoo4 isn't very well utilized on the Amiga or more would be possible.
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Please forgive my ignorance on the topic, but are the 68060's on EBay better than the xc variant of the 060?
I want to upgrade my Appolo 1240, and I'm wondering if I should get one of the 060's on EBay...
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@KatManDEW
There were some 68060's with 71E41J mask (shrunk die size) that typically overclock from 75-100MHz and produce less heat. Most were marked MC instead of XC. I don't see any more available at the moment though.
You need to change the voltage in your accelerator from 5V to 3.3V for your upgrade as well as having the proper oscillator.
edit:
Actually, there are these 60MHz versions...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Motorola-MC-68060-RC-60-71E41J-100-WORKING_W0QQitemZ260361281511QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item260361281511
The others were 50MHz and much cheaper.
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Ok, so what is this then? Same seller, apparently a 68060, but it doesn't seem to be marked as a 68060.
Only $15 Buy It Now too...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Motorola-68060-SC414423RC75-75G59Y_W0QQitemZ260296045711QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0
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G59Y mask set means it is quite old.
This is an EC part (no FPU or MMU).