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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: stefcep2 on December 07, 2008, 11:24:31 AM

Title: what's this about then...?
Post by: stefcep2 on December 07, 2008, 11:24:31 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/KICKSTART-3-1-ROM-FOR-AMIGA-A500-600-1200-2000-NEW_W0QQitemZ250338884927QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Computers_Vintage?hash=item250338884927&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: countzero on December 07, 2008, 11:27:13 AM
another pirate copying and selling copyrighted material.
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: mingle on December 07, 2008, 11:29:50 AM
I suspect the slightly dubious copying of kickstart ROMs?

Not a bad price though! :-)
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: dannyp1 on December 07, 2008, 01:20:34 PM
I've never really been able to get a straight answer as to who has new non-pirated 3.1 roms for sale?  You can get either old used 3.1 roms or somebody is pirating them.  Just because a person runs a legit store doesn't mean he has an endless supply of nos 3.1 roms that have been sitting around for 10 years.  Last I knew Amiga INC. wasn't producing them.  If we are going to be pointing a finger about new 3.1 roms being pirated, I think it has to be an all inclusive finger.  
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: motorollin on December 07, 2008, 02:07:45 PM
Quote
dannyp1 wrote:
I've never really been able to get a straight answer as to who has new non-pirated 3.1 roms for sale?

AmigaKit (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=amirom).

--
moto
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: dannyp1 on December 07, 2008, 02:28:21 PM
What Warehouse in the Phillapeans are they getting them from?
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: swoslover on December 07, 2008, 02:41:38 PM
Does anyone really care.  In my eyes it is a good one if new roms are being produced licensed or not.
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: amiga_3k on December 07, 2008, 03:17:47 PM
Well, if the version you need is still legally on sale by any of the dealers then my feeling is that morally you should get it from the dealer. If, on the other hand, the version you need no longer is available then I guess no-one would be shooting you if you used this 'service' to get a replacement just to get your Amiga up and running again.

But no matter how, it remains a deep gray area, an area I wouldn't dare to dive into.

(http://www.elf8.nl/AMIGA_BANNER_3.gif)

Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: Zac67 on December 07, 2008, 03:28:07 PM
As long as legit ROMs are still available for reasonable money it's at least unethical to make copies - even if the IP owner doesn't care. Actually SELLING and generating profit out of illegal copies is more than a bad joke.

Please support those Amiga dealers still around instead. And please report these sales to ebay to make it more difficult to run profit from this.
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: dammy on December 07, 2008, 03:37:20 PM
Quote
As long as legit ROMs are still available for reasonable money it's at least unethical to make copies - even if the IP owner doesn't care. Actually SELLING and generating profit out of illegal copies is more than a bad joke.

Please support those Amiga dealers still around instead. And please report these sales to ebay to make it more difficult to run profit from this.


I'm sure if AI knew about these pirates, they would attempt to shut then down.  That is what Gary Peake (RIP) use to do to pirate sites.  Although they maybe too busy with their law suit against Hyperion for using their IP to worry about small time EBay pirates.

Dammy
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: redrumloa on December 07, 2008, 03:43:34 PM
Just report all piracy to eBay as soon as you see it, they will pull the listing.

Last time I checked AmigaKit has a healthy stock that AFAIK are legal ROMs and pretty cheap. There is also Cloanto (Amiga Forever) who is a legal license holder.
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: Tension on December 07, 2008, 03:49:20 PM
Who gives a {bleep}?
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: dannyp1 on December 07, 2008, 04:27:34 PM
This is starting to remind me of that new promo on TV for the Nixon/David Frost movie where Nixon is saying: "If the President of The United States is doing it, it must not be against the law" or something to that effect.

I repeat, Where is this Warehouse in the Phillapeans and do they have any new A3000T's, or FMV thingy's for the CD32?  Or is all that they have left items that are easily copied or bootlegged?

If all that the remaining Amiga user's have left to do with their time is to worry about turning in pirates of 3.1 roms than this hobby (Dream) is a lot closer to death than I realized.

If ReDrum is selling an A2000 motherboard that someone suspects might have a pirated 3.1 rom onboard is that person morally obligated to turn it in to ebay and have the listing removed and make ReDrum take the EBay Online course on what is copywrited and what isn't? (Been there, Done that.  I made the fatal mistake of trying to sell a new still sealed original copy of Windows 95 by itself, and not with the computer it was sold with. I'm sure my poor Mother thought she raised a better son than one to commit a crime like that)

Can someone on ebay sell a PIV board with copies of the installation disks when someone else is trying to sell one with originals?

This is a big can of worms being opened when you start turning people in or telling people to turn people in.
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: redrumloa on December 07, 2008, 04:37:00 PM
@dannyp1

I don't speak for AmigaKit, but does it matter where they got their KS roms as long as they are legit? AmigaKit is not exactly price gouging, so why buy pirate roms for more money?
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: recidivist on December 07, 2008, 06:17:18 PM
Software piracy in the late 80s hurt the Amiga !I knew people in several different comnputer clubs and the C= fans and Atarians were PROUD of huge collections of pirated works ,the DOS/IBM people tended to buy more.Guess which system has the biggest market?Money or lack of it drives technology.
Now you think pirating sales from the few who still support Amiga with some reasonably priced items is fine?

If no one can make a profit there will be no more Amiga;blog cred does pay the rent or put food on the table.

 Should someone be able to sell illicit SAM clones if they could make garage copies ?

 
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: weirdami on December 07, 2008, 07:19:58 PM
Quote
If we are going to be pointing a finger about new 3.1 roms being pirated, I think it has to be an all inclusive finger.


don't include me in your pointing.  :madashell:
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: dannyp1 on December 07, 2008, 07:35:52 PM
The Weird One Says:

"don't include me in your pointing."

You'd better make sure that some of that software that you are selling that you don't only own the right to use it.  If that is so, it is illegal for you to sell it.  In that case the finger is pointed directly at you.    :madashell:

How can people make a living selling new software when old software is being illegally sold.

Everybody in their own way is violating one law or another.  All I said was if you want to throw stones, there's a good chance that we're all in glass houses.  Yes, even weirdarama!
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: Zac67 on December 07, 2008, 09:11:14 PM
Piracy killed the Amiga's software market and the C= "speed bumps" killed the hardware part of it. I did pirate a lot back then (hey, I was young and had no money  :-P) but have reconsidered since.
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: terminator4 on December 07, 2008, 09:32:40 PM
I highly doubt that Amikit pays any royalties for using the roms which are licensed by Ainc still?  Or they got a stock of original Commodore 3.1 ROMS??? If Amikit provides them legally, i invite them to produce proof here on this forum.  How do I know that Cloanto is paying royalties, or if they just say so???  I found that a lot of the dealers simply burn the roms on eproms (not regular roms), and don't pay any royalties to AInc or anyone.  Also some people in this thread did ask about programming roms  in the past on A.org (this exact forum has postings on this topic too!).  So please this whole topic is a bit sketchy in 2008.  I contacted A Inc about purchasing 3.1 roms (not one pair but 10) and never heard from them.  This tells you a lot about Amiga in 2008.  This should have been thought of in the 90s when amiga was a platform and business existed.  If someone sells the roms for $20 (chips can cost $13-15) then good fo them, if they can be bothered to do this for $5 profit.
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: AmiKit on December 07, 2008, 09:38:42 PM
@terminator4

I don't pay royalties. I don't even sell any ROMs. :roll:
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: Zac67 on December 07, 2008, 10:06:24 PM
I trust AmiGAkit is selling original C= or AT ROMs; since these came from official sources, royalties are included. Cloanto officially licensed the various OS versions for redistribution with AF, this has even been mentioned on the AInc website once.

There's also a slight difference in offering 'EPROMs w/ programming service, please provide data to program' or 'Kickstart 3.1 ROMs'.
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: terminator4 on December 07, 2008, 10:21:14 PM
I meant Amiga Kit (obviously got lazy typing). :-P
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: alexh on December 07, 2008, 11:34:12 PM
Quote

Zac67 wrote:
I trust AmiGAkit is selling original C= or AT ROMs

I doubt very much that anyone is selling Mask ROMs (see picture) anymore.

(http://www.classicamiga.com/images/stories/tutorials/kickstart/kick31_insideA1200.jpg)

I bet everyone, including AmigaKit, is selling EPROMs or OTP ROM. But I could be wrong.

I'm also pretty much sure Commodore had gone bankrupt (in 1994) before KS3.1 was finished.

VillageTronic was the sponsor who brought KS3.1 & OS3.1 to market.
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: Fingers on December 08, 2008, 12:24:24 AM
Quote

alexh wrote:
(http://www.classicamiga.com/images/stories/tutorials/kickstart/kick31_insideA1200.jpg)


Yep, those are the same A1200 3.1 ROMs that AmigaKit sells...I bought some just like that :-)

PZ.
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: terminator4 on December 08, 2008, 01:01:43 AM
These are very nice.  Kuddos to AmigaKit then.
I'm going to contact them if they have something like this for all my Amigas.:-D
i like to have the "original" roms not just eproms.
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: Metalguy66 on December 08, 2008, 02:47:03 AM
I dont think piracy "killing" the amiga platform is an issue in 2008. I agree with the guy who suggested that at barely over the cost of the EPROMS, its more of a service to the community than anything.

I also dont agree with the guy who said that piracy was more predominant on the amiga than on the PC and thus had more of a negative effect on the amiga market..  From the mid 80s to early 90s I knew quite a few AMIGA users, but I knew 10 times as many non-amiga(PC,MAC,ATARI) users.. And out of all "camps" I dont know ANYONE whose software collection did not consist of a VAST MAJORITY of pirated software. Bottom line is that the death of Commodore and the decline of the AMIGA market can be blamed on stuff like software piracy, poor management, lack of advertising, etc. But the people making these accusations have been disgruntled speculators at best.

There's a vehicle parked in my driveway that hasn't moved in years. Anyone can see that it has 2 flat tires and a broken headlight. The fundamental reason for its inoperability, however, is that the engine is blown.

The real fundamental reason for the demise of Commodore, Atari, and a host of other systems is the huge change in the market caused by IBM's "open architecture" and microsoft's monopolization of it on the OS front. Companies such as Commodore could not afford to release their architecture to cloan manufacturers. (apple tried it for a while and it almost killed them).  When IBM did it, they could afford it because their business did not depend solely on the PC market. Microsoft became the officially IBM-endorsed OS for what became the basis of thousands of (relatively inexpensive) clone PC models... And the rest is history..

At the VERY best, if better managed and marketed, (disregarding a whole lot of other variables) it's possible that AMIGA could have held on to some niche market (like Video production) and stayed in business, but their chances of retaining any share of the mainstream home/personal computer market died in the late 80s due to circumstances beyond their control.. If Commodore had sold off ALOT of "dead-weight," and bought up technologies from aftermarket companies (like NewTek), they might have gone another ten years... Or more.. But thats total speculation as well...
Title: Re: what's this about then...?
Post by: Tension on December 08, 2008, 02:57:09 AM
Quote

alexh wrote:
Quote

Zac67 wrote:
I trust AmiGAkit is selling original C= or AT ROMs

I doubt very much that anyone is selling Mask ROMs (see picture) anymore.

(http://www.classicamiga.com/images/stories/tutorials/kickstart/kick31_insideA1200.jpg)

I bet everyone, including AmigaKit, is selling EPROMs or OTP ROM. But I could be wrong.

I'm also pretty much sure Commodore had gone bankrupt (in 1994) before KS3.1 was finished.

VillageTronic was the sponsor who brought KS3.1 & OS3.1 to market.


Eh? The CD32 had kickstart 3.1. Where does VillageTronic come into it?