Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: mingle on December 07, 2008, 06:46:55 AM
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Hi,
I have an old (Model 3020) Sega Master System controller and was wondering if it'll work on an Amiga without any mods?
Cheers,
Mike.
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I used to use a master system 2 controller with my A2000. Worked a treat, though not as good as the old Atari joypads which were easier to get your thumb around for touch sensitive control. (well almost) :)
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Yep, works fine on my A1200 too... The number 1 joystick button is a bit intermittent, so I'll have a go at fixing it up tomorrow...
Cheers,
Mike.
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All Sega Master System and Mega Drive controllers will work on Amigas as 2-button pads (buttons B and C on the Mega Drive pad work as buttons 1 and 2).
What ever you do though, don't ever plug or unplug the controllers while the A1200 is switched on, because it can blow a CIA chip, and you'll lose your right audio channels.
Oh, and Sega phaser guns don't work on the Amiga, unfortunately.
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since this is the Australia thread...
I thought i might add that i have used a no brand ($10) megadrive joypad since.. forever, work wells!!
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does this make games easier to play? i just got into a few A1200 games with a joystick and man did i find that hard, forgotten how it was..
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thats up to persoanl taste i would say, (depends when you grew up)
i had NES, Master System and Super NES before amiga so i always prefer joypads!!
I find most games easy comparted to when i played them back then!!
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@Rebel-CD32: It's easy to make an adapter for the Sega Light Phaser though and you can use it with all amiga light gun games if you're using WHDLoad.
Check this http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=21195&highlight=sega+light+phaser&page=2 (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=21195&highlight=sega+light+phaser&page=2)
Sega Master system light gun/Phaser 3050
(Adaptator to do Actionware's phaser)
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Needed:
- 1 sub-d 9 pins (Female)
- 1 sub-d 9 pins (Male)
- 1 10K Ohm resitor
- 1 short 9 wires cable
- A Sega Master system light gun 3050 (or compatible)
To Amiga Joystick Port 2 To Sega phaser 3050
(sub-d9 female) (sub-d9 male)
------------------------ -------------------
Pin Pin
5 (Trigger) <--------------> 6 <---|
6 (LP Signal/HitSense) <--------------> 7 | 10 K Ohm resistor
7 (+5V) <--------------> 5 <---|
8 (Ground) <--------------> 8
Remark:
The 10K Ohm resistor can be also plugged between pins 5 & 7 of the amiga port 2
Thanks to Damon_Sisk for this ;)
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Yes they will work but why? When Mega Drive pads are so much better
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fryguy, that's awesome news, thanks! I can't believe I never saw the thread over on EAB, I'll be trying this adapter out this week for sure. I was watching an auction for a brand new Actionware phaser a few weeks ago on eBay but got distracted when I was going to snipe it and missed out, I was pretty bummed out.
I'm going to stock up on SMS Phaser guns now, and see about getting a bunch of these adapters made. A CD32 WHDLoad disc with the entire Amiga light-gun collection on it would be pretty neat.
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Rebel-CD32 wrote:
All Sega Master System and Mega Drive controllers will work on Amigas as 2-button pads (buttons B and C on the Mega Drive pad work as buttons 1 and 2).
What ever you do though, don't ever plug or unplug the controllers while the A1200 is switched on, because it can blow a CIA chip, and you'll lose your right audio channels.
Oh, and Sega phaser guns don't work on the Amiga, unfortunately.
MegaDrive controllers are the best.
B and C work as button 1 and 2 as you say.
For button A, my friend an I used to have some Quickshot brand MegaDrive (Sega Genesis) controllers that we moded.
Just open it up and solder two wires from where A is to the two wires where "UP" on the controller is.
Why do this? Because tons of Amiga games don't use a jump button, but instead you have to press UP on the joystick to jump. Now the "A" button is just a second "UP" arrow, so now you have:
A for Jump and B and C for fire bottons. Easy 3 button controller for all Amiga games!
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Well I have 2 mega drive joypads and they only work as a 1 button joypad? I thought this was always the case without a mod being done to it?
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You have to be playing games that support that extra button of course.
assuming you are, you should have a working B and C buttons, this is true for the 6 button pads too (which I use) Some games which should support the extra button in WHDload don't seem to support this very well however, and one of the faster Master System emulators also does not support it, despite saying it does. So perhaps something does need to be done to the pads to make them work consistently. I recall one post somewhere, where someone suggested it was because the rubber contact pad has different resistance properties to a microswitch, but in this case i would have thought that no buttons or directions on a pad would work reliably.
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Don't most Amiga games just use one button though ? I come from a c64 background so seriously asking..
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You have to be playing games that support that extra button of course.
assuming you are, you should have a working B and C buttons, this is true for the 6 button pads too (which I use) Some games which should support the extra button in WHDload don't seem to support this very well however, and one of the faster Master System emulators also does not support it, despite saying it does. So perhaps something does need to be done to the pads to make them work consistently. I recall one post somewhere, where someone suggested it was because the rubber contact pad has different resistance properties to a microswitch, but in this case i would have thought that no buttons or directions on a pad would work reliably.
I have a 6 button megadrive pad and when I play sf2 etc.. the 2 buttons that work do the same thing :(
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I have a 6 button megadrive pad and when I play sf2 etc.. the 2 buttons that work do the same thing :(
Is that the WHDload version though?
Like i said, a lot of people here have reported issues with that software, issue that they don't get with the disk version.
Banshee AGA is another one, "C" on the pad should activate a special weapon but it works about once per level, and only right at the start of the level, then the button is dead and you have to hit spacebar instead. weird stuff... Not sure if it helps if the copy is registered, I haven't got round to that yet but some games are restricted/unplayable until you pay.
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Don't most Amiga games just use one button though ? I come from a c64 background so seriously asking..
yeah most are only single button, the most comprehensive controller would be a CD32 pad, or something fully compatible with it....
most games are single button (with up to jump, fire as fire for example, like the 64 games)
some games support one more button, like SF2, Banshee.
CD32 games may support more buttons, depending on title, but you can't use all those without an actual CD32 pad or a proper adapter for something like a Ps2 pad.
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Thanks coolhand, IMO the best joystick is the Wico red bat, as good as any pad for C= games or atari games.
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I have played many 2-button games on my real Amiga using Sega-compatible controllers I bought for $10.00 each from Toys R Us and they all worked perfectly.
I used to collect all the 2-button games back in 80s and 90s.
Please note that I was not using WHDload as no WHDload game has ever worked on any of my Amigas.
I was using the games on real floppy disks.
I am not fond of floppy disks or anything. Just saying that games work reliably when played that way.
You can buy a virtual floppy drive with GBs of storage that way u don't have to muck about with thousands of floppies. I think it is called HxC Floppy Emulator or something like that. I don't have one but I would like to get one. I just have thousands of things to do all at the same time...
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I have played many 2-button games on my real Amiga using Sega-compatible controllers I bought for $10.00 each from Toys R Us and they all worked perfectly.
I used to collect all the 2-button games back in 80s and 90s.
Please note that I was not using WHDload as no WHDload game has ever worked on any of my Amigas.
I was using the games on real floppy disks.
I am not fond of floppy disks or anything. Just saying that games work reliably when played that way.
You can buy a virtual floppy drive with GBs of storage that way u don't have to muck about with thousands of floppies. I think it is called HxC Floppy Emulator or something like that. I don't have one but I would like to get one. I just have thousands of things to do all at the same time...
That HxC is on my birthday list, that and a Wico red bat ! as far as WHLoad, frankly it looks a pain in the ass to set up, gonna try it though until HxC time !
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I have played many 2-button games on my real Amiga using Sega-compatible controllers I bought for $10.00 each from Toys R Us and they all worked perfectly.
I used to collect all the 2-button games back in 80s and 90s.
Please note that I was not using WHDload as no WHDload game has ever worked on any of my Amigas.
I was using the games on real floppy disks.
I am not fond of floppy disks or anything. Just saying that games work reliably when played that way.
You can buy a virtual floppy drive with GBs of storage that way u don't have to muck about with thousands of floppies. I think it is called HxC Floppy Emulator or something like that. I don't have one but I would like to get one. I just have thousands of things to do all at the same time...
Oops I need to clarify something:
The controllers I bought and have used all these decades were Sega Genesis compatible controllers. Kinda flat, have 6 buttons + a dpad. The Sega Genesis was known as the Sega Megadrive in Europe. Sega Genesis was the sequel to the "Sega Master System". I have never used any Sega Master System controllers and I don't know ottomh if they are compatible or not. I assume they are compatible but I have not actually used them.
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Well I have just tried ssf2 and I can confirm that my Sega mega drive 6 button controller does indeed have a 2 button function, ssf2 is installed to my hdd with whdload as well :)
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Don't most Amiga games just use one button though ? I come from a c64 background so seriously asking..
Yes, there's not many Amiga games that support two button joysticks.
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Please note that I was not using WHDload as no WHDload game has ever worked on any of my Amigas.
I wonder what's so special about your Amiga? Is it SFS? :laugh1:
Seriously though, it's a shame you can't get WHDLoad to work for you as it's so convenient whenever you fancy a retro sesh... over 2000 games ready to run from Workbench or your games launcher. Have you ever thought about giving it another go?
My only gripe with WHDLoad is some crappy slaves, and slaves that require a 68020 even when the game is originally an A500 game. HxC would be better in this respect, and I might just get one one day, although there's no way I'll be removing the floppy drive. An Amiga has to have a floppy drive!
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Master System and Mega Drive controllers are compatible in Amiga, but at the same time they are not. Let me explain...
Amiga power the joysticks with pin 7 and Sega power on pin 5. So why does the Sega pads work on Amiga? The answer is that Amiga also have a +5 voltage on pin 5. This pin is used for steering wheels and such. It's essentially reading an analogue signal like the PC gameport (do you remember those?). You can not draw as much current from pin 5 as you can from pin 7. Maybe this is the reason why some people have blown the CIA?
What happens when a Mega Drive drive controller is connected to an Amiga is that the Amiga power pin 7 is acting as the Select signal for Mega Drive and will output button B and C as Amiga button 1 and 2.
What you should do to do things right is to open the Sega controller and swap the wires so the controller is powered from pin 7 instead.
Please see these pinouts for reference:
Amiga:
http://www.allpinouts.org/index.php/Mouse/Joystick_Amiga_9_pin
Master System:
http://www.allpinouts.org/index.php/SegaMaster_System_%28SMS%29_and_MegaDrive_joystick
Mega Drive:
http://pinouts.ru/Game/genesiscontroller_pinout.shtml
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I wonder what's so special about your Amiga? Is it SFS? :laugh1:
Seriously though, it's a shame you can't get WHDLoad to work for you as it's so convenient whenever you fancy a retro sesh... over 2000 games ready to run from Workbench or your games launcher. Have you ever thought about giving it another go?
Yes I have. After years of each WHDLoad game crashing on me after a few mins of play I read a news item where WHDLoad finally noticed "Oh hey, we have a bug that blows up the computer if the user has ever used the internet in their whole entire life (like say 10 years ago but no cable is connected anymore)". Doh! So it might work for me now that I know to completely quit, exit and disable Miami.
My only gripe with WHDLoad is some crappy slaves, and slaves that require a 68020 even when the game is originally an A500 game.
And other ones where the original game works on the 060 perfectly and installs to HD perfectly but the WHDLoad version mysterious does not work on 060 at all. Say what? (Hired Guns)
HxC would be better in this respect, and I might just get one one day, although there's no way I'll be removing the floppy drive. An Amiga has to have a floppy drive!
I want an HxC for sure.... its just that... I want to play some old gamez but don't have the time or energy... I got gamez to code and monsters to mash and stuff. Too many gamez and not enuff timez :(
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Master System and Mega Drive controllers are compatible in Amiga, but at the same time they are not. Let me explain...
Amiga power the joysticks with pin 7 and Sega power on pin 5. So why does the Sega pads work on Amiga? The answer is that Amiga also have a +5 voltage on pin 5. This pin is used for steering wheels and such. It's essentially reading an analogue signal like the PC gameport (do you remember those?). You can not draw as much current from pin 5 as you can from pin 7. Maybe this is the reason why some people have blown the CIA?
What happens when a Mega Drive drive controller is connected to an Amiga is that the Amiga power pin 7 is acting as the Select signal for Mega Drive and will output button B and C as Amiga button 1 and 2.
What you should do to do things right is to open the Sega controller and swap the wires so the controller is powered from pin 7 instead.
Please see these pinouts for reference:
Amiga:
http://www.allpinouts.org/index.php/Mouse/Joystick_Amiga_9_pin
Master System:
http://www.allpinouts.org/index.php/SegaMaster_System_%28SMS%29_and_MegaDrive_joystick
Mega Drive:
http://pinouts.ru/Game/genesiscontroller_pinout.shtml
Thank you for your explanation.
I hereby award you:
Best Message of the Year Award!
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What you should do to do things right is to open the Sega controller and swap the wires so the controller is powered from pin 7 instead.
Or get two 9 pin connectors, one male and one female and wire them up 1:1 apart from pin 5 & 7 which you swap.
Amiga Format published that in the 90's with code for reading the extra buttons.
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I hereby award you:
Best Message of the Year Award!
Thank you for that! I did some rewiring last months so it's still fresh in my head. The six button Mega Drive controllers are a bit more complicated since they seem to use the timing of the Select signal to read the X, Y and Z buttons. I can't find the link to that article right now...
Or get two 9 pin connectors, one male and one female and wire them up 1:1 apart from pin 5 & 7 which you swap.
I got a DB9 gender change shell for the very same reason. I did my rewiring on some cheap Mega Drive look alike pads that I got 2 of for ~$6 from eBay. Didn't want to rewire my real controllers. I will make a converter for those.
In fact, I bought an AVR programmer and some AVRs not long ago. With this I should be able to read all the buttons from a 6 button Mega Drive controller. And if I add some switches on the converter I can remap buttons and such. I think this project is more realistic than the 2MB chip RAM mod I asked about in another thread.
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Or get two 9 pin connectors, one male and one female and wire them up 1:1 apart from pin 5 & 7 which you swap.
Amiga Format published that in the 90's with code for reading the extra buttons.
This is what I do, I also allways rewire the dpad up button to a unused button and put a switch so you can disable the dpads up button, this helps a lot because some games are just plain awkward to jump with dpad up easy to by misstake press up while going left/right one some gamepads.
Easy and works great.
A nice on off switch for the dpad up and button 2 is used as up (jump) instead, Master systems dpad needs this since it's a horrible dpad.
(http://oi41.tinypic.com/fnsfpg.jpg)
Some easy wireing. Cut traces and wire on :)
(http://oi40.tinypic.com/34q0e87.jpg)
and another on/off switch fitting good.
(http://oi43.tinypic.com/ei88km.jpg)
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And other ones where the original game works on the 060 perfectly and installs to HD perfectly but the WHDLoad version mysterious does not work on 060 at all. Say what? (Hired Guns)
How odd... it works on my Apollo 1260. I got all my games at once from the Killer Gorilla series, then once in a while I get the updates from Retroplay.
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Additional info here: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56801
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Thank you for that! I did some rewiring last months so it's still fresh in my head. The six button Mega Drive controllers are a bit more complicated since they seem to use the timing of the Select signal to read the X, Y and Z buttons. I can't find the link to that article right now...
In fact, I bought an AVR programmer and some AVRs not long ago. With this I should be able to read all the buttons from a 6 button Mega Drive controller. And if I add some switches on the converter I can remap buttons and such. I think this project is more realistic than the 2MB chip RAM mod I asked about in another thread.
The ADoom.readme from ADoom on Aminet directs to swap lines 5 and 7 and put a 470 ohm resistor between them (pins 5 and 7) for both 3 and 6 button Genesis controllers. The ADoom source should have Joe Fenton's code to read a 6 (or 3) button Genesis controller then. I believe the 3 button support is the same as described in the Hired Guns manual as well. It would be nice if we all used the same standards and were compatible :).
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The ADoom.readme from ADoom on Aminet directs to swap lines 5 and 7 and put a 470 ohm resistor between them (pins 5 and 7) for both 3 and 6 button Genesis controllers. The ADoom source should have Joe Fenton's code to read a 6 (or 3) button Genesis controller then. I believe the 3 button support is the same as described in the Hired Guns manual as well. It would be nice if we all used the same standards and were compatible :).
Interesting. Sounds like it is used as a pull up resistor. I just had a quick look at the schematics for A500 R6A. Pin 1 to 4 (Up, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT) are controlled by Denise. Pin 6 (FIRE1) is controlled by CIA. Pin 5 and 9 (POTX and POTY) are controlled by Paula. These two pins, as well as pin 6 (FIRE) are bi-directional. I guess ADoom uses pin 5 as a Sega Select and with this manage to read all buttons.
Here is the link to the specs. for 6 button Mega Drive controller I couldn't locate yesterday:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~chuck/infopg/segasix.txt
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Great link, MrKnight! Clever stuff, the 6 button controller and backward compatibility.