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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Illuwatar on December 04, 2008, 07:49:01 AM
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I'm planning a PCB order for the MiniMig 2.0 final version, but I need to get a feeling of the numbers. The price of a PCB is totally dependent on the amount ordered (10 boards = €25 each, 25 boards = €14 each, shipping and handling added). Before ordering, I need payment in advance (specially if the numbers exceed 10 units) but to give a proper price, I need to know how many boards to order.
So, please mark your interest in this thread (one entry per "buyer"). Also vote for black or blue... (color does not affect price). For this order, it doesn't matter if you would like PCB only (and assemble the board yourself) or a complete unit - both needs the same PCB.
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is this the mini itx minimig ? (was the original minimig in mini itx form ?)
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Yes - the updated Mini-ITX version.
(http://www.illuwatar.se/project_pages/minimig2/images/minimig20-005.jpg)
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I would be interested if you got 25 orders (14 euro)
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how much for the assembled PCB??
I have no interest in just the PCB
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@Illuwatar
Count me in at the €14 each price for 2 units. I'll cast my vote for Blue.
Just for giggles what would be your assembled price?
Do you have a published list of components for this board?
Thanks,
Mike
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I am interested in a populated board euro Price?
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I'm interested in one blank PCB.
Vote: black.
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I haven't decided for a price yet for a fully working unit. But in the range of €250-300 maybe - it involves a lot of manual work to build one single board (several hours of hand soldering). Of course, larger numbers makes cheaper boards. And if someone could recommend a part source that is cheaper than Digikey, it would be even better.
All information including part list and schematics are at my homepage (www.illuwatar.se).
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Illuwatar,
Exactly one year ago I spent conisderable time and effort speaking to a factory that would make miniMIG 1.0 in low numbers. 100 units was the sweet spot required to make the numbers work. Lower runs are possible but you'd just be making them for the sake of making them without a real profit. Theres no way to stop someone else, in this case(ACube) from selling them at a slightly lower price.
So if it don't make monet it don't make sense...LOL!
Maybe speak to Acube as they already have the logistics in place from producing Mini-MIG 1.0.
I could look into producing a run or 10 units if you like with the same factory. I'm guestimating the production cost would be like $125-$150 for 10 units... I dunno...
I even spoke to contact that works with V-Tech's factory (makers of the Laser128 apple clone) and they laughed at the low numbers, but they don't get the retro market.
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Acube needs at least 50 boards to start production. I have already sent them that question...
Crom00 - that could be a way as it seems like most people prefer a working board.
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Hello Peter.
I already did place an order thru email a few days ago, but I thought I´d just put my name down here aswell just to put my "order" into this thread along with the others.
I am also only interested in ordering a pre-soldered version, as my hands are not steady enough for that amount of smd soldering anymore. It used to be, and those were the glory days....ehhe.
Regards,
Espen Skog
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Hi there: i would love to get my hands on a "ready to go unit" since i suck soldering and there is no one here available/ready to do such a job for me.
If you can keep the price lower thatn estimated i might as a few more argentinian amiga users willing to get their hands on a Minimig complete, but that cant afford the 250/300 euro price...
But hey, anyway, count me in please!!!!!!
Saludos
Sebastian :-D
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Any idea on the price of the parts for the board?
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I will order two boards from you.
MfG
Jens
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the bits and pieces w/out the board euro 160 aprox
then some one has to solder them
25 +160 + labour? =?
maybe a comlete kit (board and all the bits with instructions might save a lot of toing and froing) for those who can solder
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Let me know pricing for a completed board. I don't have much use for just a thin slab of plastic like stuff.
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There's a lot of empty space on that board.
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@Illuwatar
I'm curious about one thing... would it be possible to use TobiFlex 68k core instead of the real 68000? Would the design allow 24bit output if it was updated to AGA later? What about extra memory... adding 16MB would increase the cost much?
I ask these questions because I've seen Tobiflex core reaching reaching a 42Mhz 68000 in benchmarks and perhaps in the future someone adds support for AGA, 020, fast memory or uses the extra memory to emulate other machines.
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Crumb wrote:
@Illuwatar
I'm curious about one thing... would it be possible to use TobiFlex 68k core instead of the real 68000? Would the design allow 24bit output if it was updated to AGA later? What about extra memory... adding 16MB would increase the cost much?
I ask these questions because I've seen Tobiflex core reaching reaching a 42Mhz 68000 in benchmarks and perhaps in the future someone adds support for AGA, 020, fast memory or uses the extra memory to emulate other machines.
Hello,
I have done a study on this kind of design already, here are the main components:
- Cyclone III EP3C25
- SDRAM 16MB (chip)
- SDRAM 64MB (fast)
- VGA DAC AD725
- Audio DAC PCM1742
- AT91SAM replacing the PIC.
BOM price : $100
PCB price : $40 (for 10 PCBs)
BTW, 16MB of SDRAM (Samsung) costs $1.35, really cheap :-o
Regards,
Frederic
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I'll donate for one board and might have you assemble it for me.
I already have too many projects that are not being worked on at the moment and I don't know when I will be able to start working on them.
I think your next project should be a MiniMig3.0 that is a reduced size version, say about 3-1/2" square to fit inside the base of a joystick. Even if it had to be two boards sandwiched together to get it that small, it would be very marketable at that form factor. Or probably better yet, get it reduced enough to fit into a PSP sized form including the LCD screen and a rechargeable battery to power it.
I know that UAE already exists for the PSP, but I don't think it runs Amiga games as well as the MiniMig.
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By judging from the replies, most people prefer a working unit. So, reaching these 10-limit should not be an issue.
Crom00 - how could we arrange this?
And about all this improvements with memory, FPGA and so on - these was never intended for this design. The whole idea was to keep it 100% compatible with the Dennis design and only change or add stuff that was missing on the original board (specially the power supply side). The Mini-ITX form factor was selected due to it is a standard (Dennis board is the same size a a Nano-ITX but the hole pattern and connectors are note to standard). The 170 x 170 mm board size is little bit oversize for this design (reason for the empty areas), but that is a side effect when a standard is used.
When the constraints of a design are removed, the result becomes different. Look at the Mini MiniMig at my home page. I don't think you can shrink that design even more and keep the current parts (specially the FPGA-CPU-RAM combo). Going smaller will require a BGA style FPGA, soft-core for the MC68000 and BGA memory chips. That design instantly rules out DIY for most people. As I have seen, there are several members of this forum that are cooking up new designs for the MiniMig - keep an eye on them (I'm certainly going to do that).
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If you can get the cost to 14 euro/blank_pcb, I would be interested in two blank pcbs.
:-)
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Good looking design.
You should make this a news item and get more orders?
:idea:
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Illuwatar wrote:
All information including part list and schematics are at my homepage (www.illuwatar.se).
How is this a major revision?
From what I can tell by reading the specifications it is a fixed Minimig mini-ITX v1.0 board.
Shouldn't it then be a minor release as in a v1.1?
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I did it a 2.0 as the board is totally re-routed. The only thing I reused from the 1.0 was the board outline and hole template... there are more behind this that aren't on the list. I also hope this is the final for this line of boards. Any further development will be the Mini MiniMig and all these "dream machines" people wants. Yesterday, I placed the last test run order to do a final verification of the design. Five blue boards will show up in approx. two weeks.
Reading the thread, I found that seven people prefers a blank PCB if I can get the 25-price and four wants a complete running unit.
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Let me know if you need cash to keep the project going. I can prepay mine if you want ? Just let me know.
Regs
Espen
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@Frederic,
Would you consider an AVR32 instead of ARM-based AT91SAM? AVR development software is all free and the programmer is very cost effective - for an extremely powerful, newly designed, microcontroller.
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ny further development will be the Mini MiniMig
What is a Mini MiniMig going to be?
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This is all quite interesting :-D I was thinking to get myself a MiniMig - until I saw the price of the little thing :-( I was also thinking to do a run of the MiniMig V1.1 PCB's. Until I saw the price of having fifty (50) of them made. Although it is not that expensive, it is for me, because I am quite poor at the moment. On the upside, I have been keeping my IC supplier busy getting quotes for me on the IC's that make up the MiniMig. The quotes I have been given so far are a hell of a lot cheaper than what I have seen on the net! So who knows, one of these days I might bring out a cheap MiniMig V1.1 - the poor mans version :-P
@Illuwatar
Would you like me to get a quote for the IC's that make up your MiniMig v2.0? It may save everyone some money. I also noticed that you are using fancy coloured soldermasks. Although they look nice, it just adds to the price. Plain old fashioned green is the cheapest. As is HASL to finish the copper. Although, I couldn't resist to use ENIG to plate the copper on my ROM switcher PCB's, as it wasn't much more expensive. I was originally going to make the soldermask on my V2.0 ROM switcher black, and have the silkscreen paint red. And with the ENIG (lovely gold :-P), it would have looked real pretty. But when I saw the price, I thought why make people pay more. And it sits inside the case of the Amiga anyway, so it wouldn't be able to be admired.
Anyway, good luck with your project ;-) Your skills are way beyond mine!
Nathan
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What is a Mini MiniMig going to be?
http://www.illuwatar.se/project_pages/mini-minimig/mini-minimig.htm
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Sorry for not being active on this for a while, but mu mother just went away this week after two years of fight against cancer. So, as it is now, the MiniMig isn't top priority.
But the project will not stop - just some delay. And there are five board made blue on the way (these will be the final verification run before they are considered final - and I want to see how the blue comes out compared with the black). One of the current issues now is the FPGA - Digikey had zero in stock when I needed a few at the last order. So, if someone could find a cheap and reliable source for these (and the other expensive parts: SRAM, CPU, PIC and video converters/buffers) would be nice.
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My condolences to you and your family Peter. No rush on the board.
Mike
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Illuwatar wrote:
Sorry for not being active on this for a while, but mu mother just went away this week after two years of fight against cancer. So, as it is now, the MiniMig isn't top priority.
But the project will not stop - just some delay. And there are five board made blue on the way (these will be the final verification run before they are considered final - and I want to see how the blue comes out compared with the black). One of the current issues now is the FPGA - Digikey had zero in stock when I needed a few at the last order. So, if someone could find a cheap and reliable source for these (and the other expensive parts: SRAM, CPU, PIC and video converters/buffers) would be nice.
Damn. So sorry to hear that. Condolences to you and your family.
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Thank You - this is rather some hard time now, specially as the funeral has to wait to until after Christmas.
But to light up some shine in this darkness, I put a 10ns board together using the Cypress SRAM that was earlier recommended in this thread (managed to get some samples from Cypress). And the experiment seems to be a success: I ran one of my favorite games, SilkWorm, for a few hours without any problems (using the original updated core from Dennis). And yes, the game is still as fun as it was in the good old days...
And the blue boards have been shipped from PCBCart...
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Update: got the blue boards today. And they are just awesome! Those who prefers blue did not get it wrong, specially with the yellow print - a true Swedish product...:-)
(http://www.illuwatar.se/project_pages/minimig2/images/minimig20-006.jpg)
(http://www.illuwatar.se/project_pages/minimig2/images/minimig20-007.jpg)
Note that the color may be little off due to the poor lighting when the pics was taken.
I have five of these... (and no FPGAs :-( )
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Illuwatar wrote:
a true Swedish product...:-)
I thought PCBCart was in China ;-)
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Crumb wrote:
@Illuwatar
I'm curious about one thing... would it be possible to use TobiFlex 68k core instead of the real 68000? Would the design allow 24bit output if it was updated to AGA later? What about extra memory... adding 16MB would increase the cost much?
I ask these questions because I've seen Tobiflex core reaching reaching a 42Mhz 68000 in benchmarks and perhaps in the future someone adds support for AGA, 020, fast memory or uses the extra memory to emulate other machines.
There's a conversion of MiniMig for the Altera DE1 and DE2 developer kit boards. These boards use the Altera Cyclone II FPGA. They also use the TobiFlex core instead of a 68K (which obviously won't be found on a Cyclone Devkit :-D ).
Their yahoo page is found here: http://gamesource.groups.yahoo.com/group/minimigtg68/
Seems to be pretty active, too. They just recently updated their design to v1.3.
The DE1 is the cheaper board, selling for $150. The DE2 uses a Cyclone II with more LEs plus a few more bells and whistles, so it goes for $270.