Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: orb85750 on December 02, 2008, 02:25:32 AM
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Well, I realize that it may be looked down upon by some to care about the lawsuit, but I for one do care about the Hyperion/Amiga Inc battle because it may very well determine the future of Amiga. Particularly, if Hyperion wins the suit, the question is whether they could legally contract out a hardware builder to put the term "AmigaOS" on the hardware itself. If so, Hyperion would effectively become the new Amiga computer company. Amiga Inc doesn't seem to be serious about releasing actual Amiga computers anyway.
I don't think that an excellent OS alone can fully revive Amiga. (e.g. Could you imagine an Apple revival simply based on an OS10 that people had to install on their own hardware?)
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Hyperion wins, Amiga Inc then declare bankruptcy and Hyperion buys the name for $2...it's a win-win situation.
:lol:
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What stage is the court case at, when can we expect to hear a verdict?
If Hyperion ever go bust, we should all chip in and buy the rights to the OS.
That would be {bleep}ing mad!!
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That would be {bleep}ing mad!!
Yup. If "we all" get "our" hands on it, it wouldn't be all hunkydory because then instead of 2 or 3 entities vying for control, it'd be hundreds.
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weirdami wrote:
That would be {bleep}ing mad!!
Yup. If "we all" get "our" hands on it, it wouldn't be all hunkydory because then instead of 2 or 3 entities vying for control, it'd be hundreds.
Yes, but it really wouldn`t matter.
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I don't know, perhaps someone can make sense of the crap:
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August 28, 2008 118 REVISED ORDER REGARDING INITIAL DISCLOSURES, JOINT STATUS REPORT AND EARLY SETTLEMENT By stipulation of counsel, Joint Status Report due by 1/5/2009; FRCP 26f Conference Deadline is 1/5/2009; Initial Disclosure Deadline is 1/5/2009; by Judge Ricardo S. Martinez. (LW) (Entered: August 28, 2008)
September 2, 2008 119 SCHEDULING ORDER for Settlement Conference: This matter has been referred to Judge Arnold to conduct a SETTLEMENT CONFERENCE. Settlement briefs/memorandums are due in chambers on 11/13/2008 by 4:00 PM. The briefs should contain a statement of the facts, issues for trial, the law, strengths and weaknesses of the parties' case, each party's position after mediation held in this matter and a settlement figure. The briefs/memorandums should be delivered to Judge Arnold's chambers or submitted by fax to chambers at (253)882-3881. BRIEFS ARE TO BE CONFIDENTIAL AND NOT FILED WITH THE COURT OR SERVED ON OPPOSING COUNSEL. In addition to counsel, parties and representatives who have authority to settle are directed to be present in person. Settlement Conference set for 11/20/2008 at 09:00 AM in D Courtroom before Judge J. Kelley Arnold. by Judge J. Kelley Arnold. (AS) (Entered: September 2, 2008)
Docket Report Last Checked: December 1, 2008 14:58:41 PST
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which is from the URL:
http://news.justia.com/cases/featured/washington/wawdce/2:2007cv00631/143245/
-Dave
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At this point the whole lawsuit seems silly. Its just about money owed between the two parties. Amiga Inc dont give a damn about OS4. Their just pissed about their contract from years ago when this tech still had a small chance.
I'm mean, who's actually going to make any money from the technology at this stage? Its a hobby OS. Unless these guys think there going to make millions from some kind of Clone-A in a joystick, I'm not sure what the motivation is.
The Sam board is great but nobody is going to buy it except Amiga diehards.
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I think it's clear that the lawsuit is about ownership, not just about $$. I do think that, given the opportunity and the capital (another big question mark), Hyperion would do whatever they could to promote Amiga beyond the "hobbyist" level. Remember when the Apple I was a hobbyist machine? Next came the Apple II. OK, now I'm becoming a bit far-fetched, but you get my point. -Dave
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spihunter wrote:
At this point the whole lawsuit seems silly. Its just about money owed between the two parties. Amiga Inc dont give a damn about OS4. Their just pissed about their contract from years ago when this tech still had a small chance.
I'm mean, who's actually going to make any money from the technology at this stage? Its a hobby OS. Unless these guys think there going to make millions from some kind of Clone-A in a joystick, I'm not sure what the motivation is.
The Sam board is great but nobody is going to buy it except Amiga diehards.
I`m afraid you`re right. That`s what I meant when I said it wouldn`t matter if we squabbled over the OS. It`s pretty much over for us now.
Give it a few more years til the original Amiga hardware starts to die in big numbers, then we`ll all end up using Macs.
Shame.
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Yes, it's a hobbyist OS which is why Hyperion need to win. Hyperion folks are hobbyists, they know they aren't going to get rich but they have some fun and earn enough to survive. The whole market is a few thousand. Amiga Inc can't relate to this.
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@spihunter
Unless these guys think there going to make millions from some kind of Clone-A in a joystick, I'm not sure what the motivation is.
Considering that Amiga Inc gave Jens the brush, I don't think Amiga Inc have any plans regarding classics in a joystick. The disclaimer in the Indivision AGA manual is somewhat amusing.
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@Tension
Give it a few more years til the original Amiga hardware starts to die in big numbers, then we`ll all end up using Macs.
I'd rather use WinXP than buy a MAC.
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What's the disclaimer in the Indivision manual?
I don't currently own a 1200 or I'd buy one in an instant.
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Bash shell, fully Unix compatibility, a simple interface for complex inter-process communication, a well designed GUI, great image and video software. The Mac is the 21st Century equivalent of the Amiga...
Rob wrote:
@Tension
Give it a few more years til the original Amiga hardware starts to die in big numbers, then we`ll all end up using Macs.
I'd rather use WinXP than buy a MAC.
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persia wrote:
Yes, it's a hobbyist OS which is why Hyperion need to win. Hyperion folks are hobbyists, they know they aren't going to get rich but they have some fun and earn enough to survive. The whole market is a few thousand. Amiga Inc can't relate to this.
I disagree. I highly doubt that Hyperion or anyone else would take on the monumental task of developing a new operating system (and being under contract to Amiga Inc) if they thought there would be recognition by only a few thousand individuals.
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Tension wrote:
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Give it a few more years til the original Amiga hardware starts to die in big numbers, then we`ll all end up using Macs.
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Hmmmmmm - I have one of those (http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/schaub_junior_gw.html) - still in working condition - year of manufacture 1936...
If original Amiga Hardware lasts similarly long, it might still take a while until it dies in numbers...
:-D
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Bash shell, fully Unix compatibility, a simple interface for complex inter-process communication, a well designed GUI, great image and video software. The Mac is the 21st Century equivalent of the Amiga...
Let me translate for the masses: "A nice logo on the machine, good design choices and a strong parent company that produces a system we can all become fanboys of. The Mac is the 21st Century equivalent of the Amiga..."
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Tron2k2 wrote:
What's the disclaimer in the Indivision manual?
I don't currently own a 1200 or I'd buy one in an instant.
From the back page:
"Names & other trademarks referred to within this manual are property of their respective trademark holders. Whoever that is. If you know who holds the rights to the name Amiga, feel free to contact us. Just for completeness: We're not affiliated with any of the mentioned trademark holders."
PZ.
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I think Jan 5 we get more info if im not mistaken.
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by orb85750 on 2008/12/1 21:25:32
Well, I realize that it may be looked down upon by some to care about the lawsuit, but I for one do care about the Hyperion/Amiga Inc battle because it may very well determine the future of Amiga. Particularly, if Hyperion wins the suit, the question is whether they could legally contract out a hardware builder to put the term "AmigaOS" on the hardware itself. If so, Hyperion would effectively become the new Amiga computer company. Amiga Inc doesn't seem to be serious about releasing actual Amiga computers anyway.
I really don't see Hyperion winning much in this case. At best, they keep their own code and call it HyperOS or whatever and move on. They do not own the name "Amiga" and assorted copyrights and trademarks related to "Amiga" and no judge is going to award it to them either. It's been estimated Hyperion (Evert) is about $2M in the hole in what is owed on OS4 to developers, I don't Evert making enough on sales to catch up to that $2M for a very long time if ever.
What I'm betting, Evert is attempting to get paid off by Amiga Inc so he can pay off his devs and then he'll move on. With this downward spiral of the global economy, I don't think AI will pay what Evert wants and is willing to sit and wait for the trial. If AI loses, they will appeal it and then your talking years and years as it goes through the appeals courts.
Dammy
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Tension wrote:
...Give it a few more years til the original Amiga hardware starts to die in big numbers, then we`ll all end up using Macs.
Shame.
NEVER :madashell: never have & never will own or use Apple products..PERIOD :pint: :devildance:
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At this point the whole lawsuit seems silly. Its just about money owed between the two parties.
It's about trademark infringement. This suit is even classified as a Trademark suit on Justia. Go look at the very first paragaph of the very first document:
LINK (http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/washington/wawdce/2:2007cv00631/143245/1/)
This whole suit could have been avoided if Hyperion hadn't been so anxious to use the Amiga name.
Amiga Inc dont give a damn about OS4. Their just pissed about their contract from years ago when this tech still had a small chance.
Spot on!
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klx300r wrote:
Tension wrote:
...Give it a few more years til the original Amiga hardware starts to die in big numbers, then we`ll all end up using Macs.
Shame.
NEVER :madashell: never have & never will own or use Apple products..PERIOD :pint: :devildance:
That`s a childish attitude. If the Mac is better at doing something, you should use it. Blind brand loyalty is stupid, imagine how many idiots there are out there who`ll say "I will never use an Amiga product" even if they are better.
I use the Amiga because XP SUCKS THE BEEF in most ways. In the future, when people like me are completely priced out of the market (like I pretty much am now), I could see myself getting a G4/G5 Mac. I dont WANT to, but I might HAVE to. I`m not cutting my nose off to spite my face - Why shouldn`t I use the better product? At least Macs are available in Northern Ireland.
And 10 points for the person who remembers who said this quote:
"There`s nothing nasty about Bill Gates, and nothing nice about Steve Jobs"
(Rant over)
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I'm with you on that score... The man who only has a hammer, see's the world as a nail.
The Amiga was the last computer I got 'passionate' about - that I couldn't wait to get home at the end of the day to turn on and start messing on some new project or another...
But ever since 1997 the ability to do my work effectively had me slowly migrate to the PC...
A change of careers and a decade later I found myself in the same boat.. at work migrating from an Avid PC based system to an Apple Final Cut system..
And I gotta say - with each migration I've been happier and more productive..
If in the future some unnamed system takes over the top spot for video editing and compositing... I'll migrate to it without the blink of an eye!
Of course I have replaced my old Amiga system from days gone by - and currently tinker with an emulated system (because lets face it - its too damn expensive get all the whizbangs on a REAL system)... so my passion remains in the same place... I just don't fool myself that it's anything more than a fun bit of retro kit to play with.
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dammy wrote:
I really don't see Hyperion winning much in this case. At best, they keep their own code and call it HyperOS or whatever and move on. They do not own the name "Amiga" and assorted copyrights and trademarks related to "Amiga" and no judge is going to award it to them either. It's been estimated Hyperion (Evert) is about $2M in the hole in what is owed on OS4 to developers, I don't Evert making enough on sales to catch up to that $2M for a very long time if ever.
What I'm betting, Evert is attempting to get paid off by Amiga Inc so he can pay off his devs and then he'll move on. With this downward spiral of the global economy, I don't think AI will pay what Evert wants and is willing to sit and wait for the trial. If AI loses, they will appeal it and then your talking years and years as it goes through the appeals courts.
Dammy
If Hyperion's use of the term "Amiga" were so obviously illegal, then the court would have issued an injunction against the current sale of AmigaOS4 a long time ago, right?
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That`s a childish attitude. If the Mac is better at doing something, you should use it. Blind brand loyalty is stupid, imagine how many idiots there are out there who`ll say "I will never use an Amiga product" even if they are better.
I use the Amiga because XP SUCKS THE BEEF in most ways. In the future, when people like me are completely priced out of the market (like I pretty much am now), I could see myself getting a G4/G5 Mac. I dont WANT to, but I might HAVE to. I`m not cutting my nose off to spite my face - Why shouldn`t I use the better product? At least Macs are available in Northern Ireland.
And 10 points for the person who remembers who said this quote:
"There`s nothing nasty about Bill Gates, and nothing nice about Steve Jobs"
(Rant over)
Chuck Peddle... :-)
Anyway, I will never use Apple products too. Not because I don´t like Apple, ou wouldn´t like to have one, but because they are freaking expensive!!!
An Mac here is about twice the price of an equivalent PC. I think this is too expensive, would rather spend that money in something else
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There was a brief period a year or so ago when MacBook Pros were priced competitively against similarly equipped laptops from Dell, HP, etc. Apple's prices never really drop, regardless of advances in manufacturing. Still, their designs are tight.
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by orb85750 on 2008/12/2 17:23:00
If Hyperion's use of the term "Amiga" were so obviously illegal, then the court would have issued an injunction against the current sale of AmigaOS4 a long time ago, right?
No, AI failed to show catastrophic harm being done if Acube is selling OS4 for their SAM440. Judge stated that things can be repaired by damages being awarded. See the Judge's ruling (http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/washington/wawdce/2:2007cv00631/143245/38/).
Dammy
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You've also got the insolvency clause. If Amiga Inc (Amino) truly was insolvent before the transfer of assets to Amiga Inc (KMOS), then Hyperion win. That's one of the complicating matters of the whole situation, the company that is suing Hyperion IS NOT the company that Hyperion had the contract with.
Die Hyperion really pay out US$2 Million to programmers? There's no way they'll ever recoup that money. That's just crazy. Neither Hyperion nor Amiga Inc have any possibility of getting that much money from Amiga development.
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dammy wrote:
by orb85750 on 2008/12/2 17:23:00
If Hyperion's use of the term "Amiga" were so obviously illegal, then the court would have issued an injunction against the current sale of AmigaOS4 a long time ago, right?
No, AI failed to show catastrophic harm being done if Acube is selling OS4 for their SAM440. Judge stated that things can be repaired by damages being awarded. See the Judge's ruling (http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/washington/wawdce/2:2007cv00631/143245/38/).
Dammy
Please reread the document. If Amiga Inc. becomes insolvent (and that seems to be the main bone of contention), then Hyperion is entitled to market OS4 under the AmigaOS trademark, which is exactly what they're doing now.
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persia wrote:
You've also got the insolvency clause. If Amiga Inc (Amino) truly was insolvent before the transfer of assets to Amiga Inc (KMOS), then Hyperion win. That's one of the complicating matters of the whole situation, the company that is suing Hyperion IS NOT the company that Hyperion had the contract with.
Die Hyperion really pay out US$2 Million to programmers? There's no way they'll ever recoup that money. That's just crazy. Neither Hyperion nor Amiga Inc have any possibility of getting that much money from Amiga development.
I am confounded by the notion held here by many that the total potential Amiga user base cannot exceed a few thousand, especially given that it used to be millions. If a complete, user-friendly (ready to use without assembly!) machine is produced and marketed with some modest budget by a competent company, do you still forecast an absolute ceiling of only a few thousand machines selling?
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The problem is that this is 2008 not 1988. OS X and Windows have a lock on the market. Even Linux can't make it to the desktop in large numbers.
The main issues confronting any new OS are:
1) Software, can I open a .docx or .xlsx file, edit it and returned the marked up document? Can I play the latest games? Can I edit my photos and videos? Can sync my phones address book with the one on my computer? Can I play a modern game? The answer to these for AmigaDos 4.1 is NO, for all practical purposes. Heck I can't really even surf the web properly.
2) Bang for the Buck. Is it affordable for me to make the switch? Is the price performance ratio good? Again, if the Sam card the answer is a definite NO. The price/performance ratio is bad against Mac and horrible against PC.
3) Stability of he supply, if I'm buying something non-standard will the company be around next year? History probably works against Amiga here.
4) Technology leap, this was Amigas original strength. But nothing in AmigaDos says cutting edge, indeed AmigaDos 4.1 is still not up to 2008 trailing edge.
So in the end who will buy an Amiga? Retro-Geek and hobbyists, a nice niche market but really only in the thousands of people It isn't pessimism, that's realism.
I may buy a SAM for play but they have to pry my MacPro from my cold dead hands. I love 1988, but I live in 2008. With Amiga I can relive 1988, but when there's work to do the Amiga simply can't cut it.
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persia wrote:
The problem is that this is 2008 not 1988. OS X and Windows have a lock on the market. Even Linux can't make it to the desktop in large numbers.
The main issues confronting any new OS are:
1) Software, can I open a .docx or .xlsx file, edit it and returned the marked up document? Can I play the latest games? Can I edit my photos and videos? Can sync my phones address book with the one on my computer? Can I play a modern game? The answer to these for AmigaDos 4.1 is NO, for all practical purposes. Heck I can't really even surf the web properly.
2) Bang for the Buck. Is it affordable for me to make the switch? Is the price performance ratio good? Again, if the Sam card the answer is a definite NO. The price/performance ratio is bad against Mac and horrible against PC.
3) Stability of he supply, if I'm buying something non-standard will the company be around next year? History probably works against Amiga here.
4) Technology leap, this was Amigas original strength. But nothing in AmigaDos says cutting edge, indeed AmigaDos 4.1 is still not up to 2008 trailing edge.
So in the end who will buy an Amiga? Retro-Geek and hobbyists, a nice niche market but really only in the thousands of people It isn't pessimism, that's realism.
I may buy a SAM for play but they have to pry my MacPro from my cold dead hands. I love 1988, but I live in 2008. With Amiga I can relive 1988, but when there's work to do the Amiga simply can't cut it.
Last I checked, Linux was doing pretty well, with literally millions of individual users worldwide. If Amiga OS4.x (some version) can overcome a few shortcomings, then there certainly is plenty of hope for Amiga (well, if a certain trademark holder were to step aside or go bankrupt). Apple has effectively won its uphill battle. Linux has effectively won its uphill battle. So it's not clear why some other entity could not accomplish a tiny fraction of what has been accomplished in either of those cases.
SAM is a good hobbyist option, but it's certainly not designed for the computer-literate masses (obviously). Is it not possible to produce an OS4.x for a relatively cheap machine that is user-friendly and ready for immediate use? Add a very cool case (apparently something that resembles the A1200!) and some compatible software (along with general compatibility of classic Amiga software) and there will be buyers if the price is decent. Build the future from there. Of course Amiga will never overtake Windows/Mac/Linux, but that does not mean we're limited to the few thousand current Amiga users, IMO.
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One final point ...OK, not final, but important: I'm an Amiga user (fun only at this point), a Windows user (business
and fun) and a Linux user (business and scientific programming). Don't assume that everyone commits fully to only one platform. Such polygamy is not uncommon.
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Please reread the document. If Amiga Inc. becomes insolvent (and that seems to be the main bone of contention), then Hyperion is entitled to market OS4 under the AmigaOS trademark, which is exactly what they're doing now.
Problem for Hyperion, Evert never bothered to go get a court order awarding of OS4 and associated IP to Hyperion when/if they thought AI was insolvent. Bigger problem for Hyperion, AI never went insolvent by definition of US Code. Of course Hyperion signing that paid in full to Itech for OS4 makes things look even worse for Evert's case.
Dammy
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by persia on 2008/12/3 5:03:14
The problem is that this is 2008 not 1988. OS X and Windows have a lock on the market. Even Linux can't make it to the desktop in large numbers.
Main issue of Linux is... Linux itself. You can't get to the masses by hiding a natural complexity under a deep layer of shiny GUI gadgets. MacOS X has success because it's made by people with the USER in mind, not the CODER. Linux still remains a guru choice becase it's enough to scrap a bit the surface, to start looking at an unclever, unfriendly mess of files, libraries and tools with barely intellegible names and functions. People developing this mess loves it too, and won't ever do any auto-criticism.
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Apple prices are indeed higher than generic PC;so are other brands in other markets,yet does everyone hate them?
Making enough money to pay your staff and stockholders well is the point of being in business;just barely meeting expenses and depending on unpaid volunteers is something else.
I think both companies have used bad practices but Hyperion at least delivers product .
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The key to Linux is you can multiboot the machine, into MS Windows and if you are not too concerned with EULA issues, into OS X. A PPC machine can boot into what, a ppc version of Linux? With little or no software...
SO what you have is a retro looking OS on seriously underpowered machines (mobile phone level) at big box prices with no software produced by a couple of companies that are deep in debt. Yep, Tesco's will jump on that for sure.
Most of the old Amiga owners have moved on. I met an old friend the other day. He and I started the local Amiga club together. We talked about Amiga and the fact that I still own a couple and play with UAE. He just sort of laughed and said that if he were to go back to Amiga there would need to be a reason, a killer app that he had to have, otherwise he would stay with his PC.
In the end we can live in hope that Hyperion win, get rid of the back debt through bankruptcy and produce some nice machines we can tinker with.
I don't see why someone doesn't produce a classic Amiga in a joystick, I'd buy it...
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@persia
A PPC machine can boot into what, a ppc version of Linux? With little or no software...
Huh? Care to explain that?
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orb85750 wrote:
I am confounded by the notion held here by many that the total potential Amiga user base cannot exceed a few thousand, especially given that it used to be millions. If a complete, user-friendly (ready to use without assembly!) machine is produced and marketed with some modest budget by a competent company, do you still forecast an absolute ceiling of only a few thousand machines selling?
Not at all. Why shouldn't Amiga succeed? I believe it can.
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A PPC machine can boot into what, a ppc version of Linux? With little or no software...
Windows, Linux, and Mac OS are not the end all, be all of operating systems. AIX, for example, is quite capable.
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persia wrote:
The problem is that this is 2008 not 1988. OS X and Windows have a lock on the market. Even Linux can't make it to the desktop in large numbers.
The main issues confronting any new OS are:
1) Software, can I open a .docx or .xlsx file, edit it and returned the marked up document?
Fully agreed so far - this compatibility is a must nowadays.
persia wrote:
Can I play the latest games?
Are you talking about an "Operating System" or about an "Gaming System"?
An "Operating System" should of course be able to run the latest games developed for it.
But gaming is not my preference...
persia wrote:
Can I edit my photos and videos?
I can edit my photos and videos on my Miggy - furthermore the AmigaOS is no "new OS".
persia wrote:
Can sync my phones address book with the one on my computer?
I have no phone numbers stored in my computers - so I have no synchronizing needs so far...
persia wrote:
Can I play a modern game?
Should I really feel the need to play a modern game one day, I'm quite confident there will be games consoles available for that purpose.
persia wrote:
The answer to these for AmigaDos 4.1 is NO, for all practical purposes.
Hmmmmm - I don't know OS 4.1 yet.
I have os 4.0 for classics, but didn't have the time up to now to play around with it to see what's possible and what not.
I currently just have OS 3.9 / WarpOS 16.1 as my main OS on my Amiga at home.
And from my own experience my answer to all is YES.
persia wrote:
Heck I can't really even surf the web properly.
Then I'd say it's time to learn it...
:-P
Really - I'd say this might depend on the sites you visit.
The pages I frequently visit all work flawlessly with IBrowse or AWeb on an clssic Amiga.
persia wrote:
2) Bang for the Buck. Is it affordable for me to make the switch?
I'd say this could depend on your income and on how much of it you are able/willing to spend for your hobby.
persia wrote:
Is the price performance ratio good? Again, if the Sam card the answer is a definite NO.
I agree that the sam isn't the best choice regarding "Bang for the Buck". It would be unbeatable, if this Yellow Dog Linux Power Station (http://us.fixstars.com/products/powerstation/) would be supported by AOS - initially atlesast one core (multi core processing capabilities could be added later on)
persia wrote:
The price/performance ratio is bad against Mac and horrible against PC.
Given the low production volumes I would not expect anything else.
persia wrote:
3) Stability of he supply, if I'm buying something non-standard will the company be around next year?
That's a valid point, I'd say...
persia wrote:
History probably works against Amiga here.
Although one easily could object that they are still around - despite all the trouble in the past 14 years...
;-)
persia wrote:
4) Technology leap, this was Amigas original strength. But nothing in AmigaDos says cutting edge,
Equally nothing in MS-DOS says cutting edge...
persia wrote:
indeed AmigaDos 4.1 is still not up to 2008 trailing edge.
Who decides what the "trailing edge" is for Amiga Operating Systems?
And who is keen to buy "trailing edge"?
I don't buy things just because they are "trailing edge" - I buy them because they meet my needs.
If they don't, I don't buy.
persia wrote:
...
but when there's work to do the Amiga simply can't cut it.
That might depend on the work you try to do or how you try to do it.
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by orb85750 on 2008/12/2 21:05:40
Please reread the document. If Amiga Inc. becomes insolvent (and that seems to be the main bone of contention), then Hyperion is entitled to market OS4 under the AmigaOS trademark, which is exactly what they're doing now.
Good luck with that, not going to happen as AI was not insolvent under US Code. They have enough receipts that show what they bought, what they have sold stock for, Evert is going to have a heck of a time convincing the Jury of that. Then the appeals circus starts. :roflmao: Jan is almost here, then we may have a hard trial date. Even if Evert wins this entire court case, he'll have to go back to court to force AI to turn over the trademarks, in Federal court. Yeah, right.
Dammy
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@orb85750
Thanks for the court detail,nice to get up to date.
@Fingers
LMAO, best disclaimer ever.
@persia
Awesome sig.
Well, I'm praying for a Hyperion victory, they at least seem to have some drive about them and some faith in the OS.
As to other points raised in this thread:
1: Mac's are very nice and I'd love one, shame they cost so freakin' much. However if you build a pc whilst looking at the mac compatibility list you could make a nice "Hackintosh".
2: I have no doubt that Amiga can still make big sales. Anyone lacking faith just take a look at how well the Asus eee PC's sell.
3: It is also my opinion that an "AGA Amiga in a joystick", New AGA MOBO's (like Natami) and modern powerful MOBO's with OS4, PCIE etc.. are all viable.
4: A true Amiga IMHO is a combination of OS and hardware. The OS has progressed at least, thanks to Hyperion, but the hardware? I bought my A1200 years ago because it was as easy to use for games as a console, more powerful, expandable and yet.......it was a proper computer too. This is exactly what I'd like to buy again but nothing truly exists to fill the gap. OK, I know I can run Linux on pretty much anything but Linux is not user-centric, it's coder-centric, at least for now. A PS3 with OS4 would be nice but that isn't even the ideal, unless they made a PS3 in a wedge with a keyboard, or a laptop version and maybe a big box PS3 with lot's of expansion slots..... aahh....the good ol' days. :roll:
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Trev wrote:
AIX, for example, is quite capable.
It is? News for me! :lol:
I think I'd rather mention NetBSD, OpenBSD etc, than AIX.
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dammy wrote:
by orb85750 on 2008/12/2 21:05:40
Please reread the document. If Amiga Inc. becomes insolvent (and that seems to be the main bone of contention), then Hyperion is entitled to market OS4 under the AmigaOS trademark, which is exactly what they're doing now.
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not going to happen as AI was not insolvent under US Code. ...
The contract didn`t require them to be insolvent under US Code - just to be insolvent - that leaves room for speculation...
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@Dandy
The contract didn`t require them to be insolvent under US Code - just to be insolvent - that leaves room for speculation
From the leaked contract draft:
Article 7.06 Governing Law. This Agreement shall be governed by and interpreted in accordance with the internal laws of Washington State, USA without regard to conflicts of laws principles. The obligations set forth in this Agreement are intended to supplement and not to supersede the protections afforded Amiga under the Uniform Trade Secrets Act or similar law or laws as may be in effect from time to time within the State of Washington.
I'd be very surpsised if the Governing Law would have been left undefined.
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by Dandy on 2008/12/8 13:57:51
The contract didn`t require them to be insolvent under US Code - just to be insolvent - that leaves room for speculation...
This is Federal Court, only US Code enforced.
Dammy
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@Dammy
This is a civil case not a criminal case. There are so many shades of grey in civil cases that it's difficult to say what the judge will do. Hyperion can argue that Amiga Inc's shady tactic of dumping the corporation and transferring the assets to another shell could be insolvency according to the contract.
Would a reasonable person hearing Amiga Inc's story believe them to be insolvent? Yes. So Hyperion's case hase merit. But Amiga Inc still exists in a way, hence their case has merit. The judge will have to weight the two sides and come up with a solution.
But speaking of insolvency, I notice Amiga Inc have been silent for almost 11 months and Amiga Development India have been quiet for well over a year and a half.
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by persia on 2008/12/9 10:10:17
This is a civil case not a criminal case.
Does not matter, it's about Federal venue.
There are so many shades of grey in civil cases that it's difficult to say what the judge will do. Hyperion can argue that Amiga Inc's shady tactic of dumping the corporation and transferring the assets to another shell could be insolvency according to the contract.
Question is what WA state law or US Code did they violate in doing so? Just because it appears shady does not mean it's a violation of any law.
Would a reasonable person hearing Amiga Inc's story believe them to be insolvent? Yes. So Hyperion's case hase merit. But Amiga Inc still exists in a way, hence their case has merit. The judge will have to weight the two sides and come up with a solution.
Only if the reasonable person is a Hyperion fan. Reasonable person will ask who contracted who, who failed initially to full fill a meaningful portion of the contract. Then a reasonable person will ask why didn't Hyperion go to court when they thought AI was insolvent and ask the court to award them the code and trademarks instead of making a new deal with KMOS and then sell OS4 to Itec for $25K. Does that sound to a reasonable person like Hyperion automatically assumed they had full rights to IP and trademarks? I don't think so.
Dammy
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@kolla
BSD, SVR4, Linux, whatever. ;-) My point was that there are choices in kernels, operating environments, etc. beyond what's commonly installed on consumer PCs. And if one still isn't happy with the choices, one can always roll their own toy operating system.