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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: aardvark on September 02, 2003, 09:07:33 PM
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This is a 2 parter.
1. I have one of those 16x9 ntsc crt televisions that ,although it doesn't have a(n?) HDTV tuner built into it, is capable of showing scan-doubled progressive scan type DVDs in what I presume is HDTV type resolution. Can the Amiga output this kind of a resolution?
2. Can the signal coming off the 23 pin video output be easily split into the RGB component video that these tvs require and are produced by almost every stand alone dvd player around (although not all of the out put progressive scan)? :-?
Okay 3 then. What would the pin-outs be on both ends?
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1) That's not HDTV by a long shot. However, an Amiga can output video that would be usable on the screen.
2) never tried it, so no clue.
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1) I don't think so, although you could try the Euro36 monitor which gives a more stable resolution but with less space than PAL (640x200/400 instead of 640x256/512) on for example 1084 monitors.
2) You can hook the RGB out to a Scart female, and you can buy pre-made cables from www.ggsdata.se (At the bottom of this page (http://www.ggsdata.se/Datorer/Text.html), Scart "Amiga RGB -> Scart (TV)." 130:- (around €13). I used this for a long time with my old A1200 before getting a C= 1942.
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1: An Amiga with a Voodoo or other gfx cards will easily display any HDTV resolution, but a 16:9 TV is NOT HDTV ;-)
(You would need a sync combiner, though. Since a gfx card (unlike the Amiga) doesn't have composite sync output...)
2: Standard Amiga to Scart cable? Sold with all 1084 monitors? Standard shelf-ware in every Amiga shop, self-respecting and not.
A lot of TVs don't have RGB input, though. Only Composite/S-Video (Y/C). Much good it's gonna do you then ;-)
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2: Standard Amiga to Scart cable? Sold with all 1084 monitors?
Are you sure you're not thinking about the old Philips monitors? IIRC, the 1084 series had it's own connector.
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Are you in North America?
Please note that the term "Component" could lead to confusion as it can mean both "RGB" and Colour Difference Video (YCbCr).
In which case, there are two different beast... ;) Any north american television with "Component" input are most likely referring to Colour Difference video. :)
I've looked around for a means to convert RGB (what amiga generates) to Component Video, but haven't had much luck. I've seen something that does the reverse (converts YCbCr into RGB) for around 175$US.
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@sdesros
Yep, other end of Canada just north of Montana.
I had an RGB cable made up locally for an older XBR 25 inch Sony that had RGB inputs. Works, but I would have had a better deal buying a 6 foot (2m) cable from Redmond Cable. Mine is 12 foot (4m) though.
My DVD player manual says its component output is YPrPb and you can pick between 525P(480P) and 525I(480I).
The TV manual says either 480p or 1080i formats are automatically selected according to the input signal. So my guess is that I'm seeing the 525P(480P) signal. (wonder what a 1080i signal would look like. I am so impressed with the quality of my picture as it is) Component input is also YPrPb.
NTSC standard is525 lines interlaced @ 60 Hz
PAL standard is 625 lines interlaced @ 50 HZ
Which means PAL = sharper picture+more flicker
@ downix + olegil
refer to this website and they will back me up that it is HDTV. Damn pdf files, can't cut and paste the definition of HDTV, but it _specifically_ refers to 16:9 ratio and doble the resolution vertically and horizontally. If I wanted a tuner for HDTV, I could buy one from the cable company for ~800$Canadian, around 600$US still too expensive for me just yet. And yes it inputs via component video.
ATSC Digital VideoStandards (http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_53b_with_amendment_1-2.pdf)
@carls
Scart is non-existant in North America, never saw an input for it or a cable either.
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@Carl:
My 1084 at least has SCART.
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Ah, but then it becomes a COMPLETELY different problem :-)
First: Congratulations on buying a SPLENDID TV :-)
Secondly: The Amiga will not generate 1080i or 525p/480p. The standard Amiga graphics chipset is capable of delivering 525i and 625i (normal NTSC/PAL resolutions) plus 625p and 525p/480p (AGA). But only in composite/RGB. A graphics card is needed to produce anything in 1080i (ok, it CAN create something in that ball park, but the speed will be CRAP and the horisontal resolution will still be 640, NOT pretty ;-) ).
A Voodoo3 or other gfx cards using P96 can easily be set up to produce ANY resolution you want, including ALL the known HDTV resolutions. You just need to convert the RGBHV output to YPrPb.
Best device I have found so far seems to be:
http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/kd-vtca2.htm (http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/kd-vtca2.htm)
This will do excactly what you want. The PC software it comes with is almost as good as PicassoMode that comes with P96 on the Amiga.
But again, you need a graphics card to have much benefit from this. Allthough a quick phone to those people to check that it can indeed take the resolutions an AGA Amiga generates (make a list containing PAL, NTSC, Multiscan and Productive with all frequencies and all other data from the AGA manual addendum) might be helpful.
Good luck, and tell me if you buy one. I am thinking of doing it myself.
Edit:
God damn, ATI make a box for 1/7 the price of the above that claims to do the same.
USD29 or so seems to be the price. Check that as well. Still need VGA to make good high-res signal, but pal/ntsc/multiscan should at least work. I am _really_ confident in that ;-)
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1. You might be able to try feeding a double scan image.
It's probably worth a try.
2. Don't get confused between:
I) Composite - basically luma+chroma mixed together, which is rgb all mixed(+sync)
II) Luma-Chroma - two signals, 'Luma' is for the brightnes, and 'chroma' is for the difference of blue and red, compared to the brightnes, which is sort of green. don't ask me exactly how it works
III) Component - component has the same basic 'Luma' signal as above, but the chroma-red, and chroma-blue signals are different
IV) RGB - Seperate signals(wires) for red, green, and blue
Remember also that there are the analogue & digital versions of all the above except I (and probably II too)
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olegil wrote:
@Carl:
My 1084 at least has SCART.
The 1084 was sold with several different connector configurations. Some have Scart and others have the DIN connectors. Some have both.
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Jope wrote:
olegil wrote:
@Carl:
My 1084 at least has SCART.
The 1084 was sold with several different connector configurations. Some have Scart and others have the DIN connectors. Some have both.
Funny. All my 1084(s) have 9-pin D connectors!
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Hmm, my boss has more or less given me an ok on purchasing the kd-vtca2 and the kd-ctca2. This could be fun :-)
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Don't forget the OverScan dimentions for HiRes PAL Interlaced:
708x564
724x566
736x566
With the ECS Chip Set and OS2.1 onwards,
the Screenmodes are software modifiable.
Wonder what can be done in ARexx?
@aardvark: Another name for SCART
is EuroConnector!
1084 models were sold in various markets with
different ports; DIN, Db-9, SCART.
My 1084 and Philips 8833 both have SCART, but
blanks on the back look like unfitted DIN.
I bought third-party cables with Db-9 and
changed them to SCART.
The Philips 8833 seems to be compatible with
the 1081; having a Green Screen mode.
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Yikes, no SCART in North America? That was completely new to me... SCART is very common on TVs in Sweden nowadays.
About the 1084 SCART thing, is the picture quality on those monitors better, worse or the same as on the ones with other connectors? IIRC my old 1084 had a 9-pin connector but I might be wrong here...
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I think that governments in Europe mandated that the companies making TV/video monitors had to have Scart connectors, but in the US companies hate to be told to do anything by the government :-)
Might have something to do with the lower resolutions of NTSC monitors. RGB connectors on expensive TVs disappeared after S-video conectors came out. My XBR Sony has RGB but no S-video :-(
The transcoder solution looks like it would work with 4000, 3000, and maybe 1200s, but not a CDTV,600 or 500. You can get VGA boards for the 2000, so that would work.
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My well thought out Amiga 1000 still has a port where you plug a RF modulator into. It seems to be the same separated composite port that fits a C=64 128 video cable. In it you can plug in a cable designed for a 1702 monitor that has separated chroma and luma (hey just like S-VIDEO before it came out but different size connector)..
Someone used to make a cable that plugged in that did 64/128/a1000 to SVIDEO direct using that same port.. Also someone made a composite/S-video adapter for the RGB port that was broadcast quality for cheap. I remember that in toaster world magazine.
Hope that helps some..
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DonnyEMU wrote:
My well thought out Amiga 1000 still has a port where you plug a RF modulator into. It seems to be the same separated composite port that fits a C=64 128 video cable. In it you can plug in a cable designed for a 1702 monitor that has separated chroma and luma (hey just like S-VIDEO before it came out but different size connector)..
Someone used to make a cable that plugged in that did 64/128/a1000 to SVIDEO direct using that same port.. Also someone made a composite/S-video adapter for the RGB port that was broadcast quality for cheap. I remember that in toaster world magazine.
Hope that helps some..
I'm not 100% sure, but I have one of those cables(not an A1000 computer however), and from memory it wouldn't work with my c64.
I don't think the pinouts are the same. :-)
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@carls:
SCART is just the connector. The picture quality comes from the cable, not the connector.
Mine is _crisp_, though. Really excellent picture ;-)
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1084s has a 9pin , 1084 has scart ..
though there was mixed versions also.
ie you could find a 1084s with scart :)
commodore was good at making diffrent standards without saying so..
and the winner is thoose who have the 1084s with scart..
cheers
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@olegil
Ok, I thought that SCART cables were of lesser quality than the 9-pin connectors. My bad :-)
@lempkee
Yeah, now that you say so it was a 1084s I had. That explains it.