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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: dammy on November 29, 2008, 02:22:37 PM
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If AI went against the idea of using PPC, but went with a mobile friendly arch, where would they be today? Could we be busy trying to purchase a new generation aPhone this Xmas?
Dammy
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Isn't that what they were trying to do with AA?
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dammy wrote:
If AI went against the idea of using PPC, but went with a mobile friendly arch, where would they be today? Could we be busy trying to purchase a new generation aPhone this Xmas?
Dammy
I used to ponder what would have happened if Amiga Technologies had not wasted time with the walker, restarting the A1200/A4000, but instead spent that time and money porting AOS to the ARM, with a built in 68k emu... It would have been dog slow at the time... But we would be in a much better position now...
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I wouldn't buy a mobile phone no matter who the manufacturer was. I don't want one and I don't need one.
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BillE wrote:
I wouldn't buy a mobile phone no matter who the manufacturer was. I don't want one and I don't need one.
Who can live without a phone theese days? :-?
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Isn't that what they were trying to do with AA?
That was just a over grown graphics layer. Like anyone needed more bloatware.
Dammy
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I used to ponder what would have happened if Amiga Technologies had not wasted time with the walker, restarting the A1200/A4000, but instead spent that time and money porting AOS to the ARM, with a built in 68k emu... It would have been dog slow at the time... But we would be in a much better position now...
Probably would have been best if they went half way with the Dragonball series and then jump to the ARM core Dragonball MX series. If AT would have know of the potential Dragonball's road map that is.
Bet AT could have made some decent money with a wireless "aTablet."
Dammy
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As much as I'd like a Pandora (http://www.openpandora.org/), I doubt that having yet another operating system on it would have helped.
Discontinuing the 68000 series was a mistake for the handheld market. Never mind that it wasn't capable of out-of-order execution and was limited to 32-bit addressing. Here's to the Natami (http://www.natami.net/) and the 68070 whenever it gets done. 8-) (Assuming it ever does get done... :roll: )
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I used to ponder what would have happened if Amiga Technologies had not wasted time with the walker, restarting the A1200/A4000, but instead spent that time and money porting AOS to the ARM, with a built in 68k emu... It would have been dog slow at the time... But we would be in a much better position now...
Nowhere. Without full OCS or AGA compatibility it would have been yet another fiasco for Amiga Technologies. It was the custom chips which made Commodore-Amiga successful.
On the other hand Amiga Technologies never had resources to enhance Amiga in any way. They had only one employee: Petro Tschytschenko. Amiga Technologies was always "dead" company with few ideas with even fewer resources.
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itix wrote:
Nowhere. Without full OCS or AGA compatibility it would have been yet another fiasco for Amiga Technologies. It was the custom chips which made Commodore-Amiga successful.
Tbh I thought it was the fact that you could get the games in just about any playground in the UK that made it such a hit over here... Might be wrong though...
The idea of a portable running Amiga games on the other hand...
And with that, for the first time in a very long time, I feel a slight pang of regret for having given up my CD32.
That was a sweet little system, when you had a SX32 and extra ram in it at any rate...
itix wrote:
On the other hand Amiga Technologies never had resources to enhance Amiga in any way. They had only one employee: Petro Tschytschenko. Amiga Technologies was always "dead" company with few ideas with even fewer resources.
Shame really.
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Nowhere. Without full OCS or AGA compatibility it would have been yet another fiasco for Amiga Technologies. It was the custom chips which made Commodore-Amiga successful.
For a mobile device, it ECS/AGA compatibility wouldn't have been needed, at least not initially. If they had gotten a base model out and released a decent SDK, we would have many ports as we see to day for OS4/MOS/AROS. With a jump to the more modern DragonBall MX, EUAE integration would have been option.
On the other hand Amiga Technologies never had resources to enhance Amiga in any way. They had only one employee: Petro Tschytschenko. Amiga Technologies was always "dead" company with few ideas with even fewer resources.
No more so then Hyperion's two people, now just Evert, have done with OS4. Except Petro would have demanded more code and all of it being on time, or else.
Dammy
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PPC must be saved by all costs! x86 must never win this battle. Never ever! Why? Well, competition is great. I dont want x86 to loose or win neither. Its healthy with competition. But sure, the fact that Apple went over to x86 made PPC weaker. But still Wii, XBOX360 and PS3 uses PPC technology.
Amiga community needs to show the world that PPC is alive! Both AmigaOS 4 and MorphOS are today PPC operating systems. Same with AROS for PPC. PPC is a great place to be for developers. Its not the "commercial" pressure on it as on x86. You also have low focus on viruses and other lamer exterminators!
I wish that more people instead of ditching PPC, start to make it more comfortable for everyone. Its here and we should protect it from Byte Bandits :)
Regards,
Michal
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AmiDelf wrote:
PPC must be saved by all costs! x86 must never win this battle.
What makes PPC so great? What advantage does it have over ARM or MIPS? Have freescale magically added all the features that ia32 and amd64 got ages and ages ago? Can they even get their designs running at clocks to be considered competition?
Amiga community needs to show the world that PPC is alive! Both AmigaOS 4 and MorphOS are today PPC operating systems.
There are plenty of operating systems that are actually capable of doing something that run on PPC, some of them still actively support m68k.. netbsd. It's very possible to write code that can be built to run on different hardware platforms and operating systems these days. Writing generic tools in PPC assembly for AmigaOS would be a little be backwards...
"Same with AROS for PPC. PPC is a great place to be for developers. Its not the "commercial" pressure on it as on x86."
/me fails to see how a processor arch. links to commercial interests.... other than if that arch isn't commercially viable there won't be any hardware around that uses it.
You also have low focus on viruses and other lamer exterminators!
I don't think either OS4, morphos or AROS have any serious security functionality. The only reason you wouldn't get a "virus" would be that no one is interested in your tiny platform, they could better spend their time stealing credit card details from millions and millions of people (opposed to like 5 or 6 - people -) running Windows. I doubt any of the available browsers etc are all that resistant to attack, it's just no one has be arsed to check them out.
I wish that more people instead of ditching PPC...
IIRC Freescale still fund linux development for the PPC in some way or fashion. I think they gave the Debian m68k guys some coldfire boards too. But that would be because some embedded partner wants linux and not because freescale has any interest in hobbyists.
Alternative platforms are a hobby not a religion ;).
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cantido wrote:
What makes PPC so great? What advantage does it have over ARM or MIPS? Have freescale magically added all the features that ia32 and amd64 got ages and ages ago? Can they even get their designs running at clocks to be considered competition?
Which magic in ia32 and amd64 are you thinking about ? PPC is a modern and clean processor. If it was more popular, processors and compilers will be even better.
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Which magic in ia32 and amd64 are you thinking about ?
Does quad core with direct connect architecture for under $200 USD count?
Dammy
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@dammy
I remember there being some chip that McEwen was pushing that was some kind of really low temperature thing that would "emulate" something. I think it was a mobile chip, maybe. I just remember him saying that it would "emulate", but I can't remember what it was emulating. In any case, he was on Dvorak's TV show years ago and said something about how when the chip came out it didn't work like they said it would so they didn't go with it.
Anyhoo, AI's been trying to do the mobile thing for years now. Wasn't the whole PPC thing AT's deal instead anyway?
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@dammy
For a mobile device, it ECS/AGA compatibility wouldn't have been needed, at least not initially. If they had gotten a base model out and released a decent SDK, we would have many ports as we see to day for OS4/MOS/AROS.
Which companies would have developed software for new Amiga? Companies which didnt have sentimental ties to Amiga dropped it right after collapse of Commodore. For the world Amiga was dead. There is no way tiny Amiga Technologies could have convinced those companies to join in.
Please also note that most games ported to NG Amiga systems are just Linux/SDL ports. Some of them are really cool but this option was not available at that time... Linux, just like Internet, was only starting to shape up.
And not to forget... HP released their OS 3.5 in 1999. That was quite late, wasnt it? Now how long it would have taken to port the OS to another CPU? We have got real life example...
With a jump to the more modern DragonBall MX, EUAE integration would have been option.
DragonBall MX was released when, in 2001 or so? If Amiga would have survided (and sort of florished) from year 1995 to 2001 there would be no need for UAE integration.
Anyway Amiga Technologies/Amiga Inc. was never controlling Amiga and its direction. Petro was only a marionette trying to hang along.
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@the_leander
Nowhere. Without full OCS or AGA compatibility it would have been yet another fiasco for Amiga Technologies. It was the custom chips which made Commodore-Amiga successful.
Tbh I thought it was the fact that you could get the games in just about any playground in the UK that made it such a hit over here... Might be wrong though...
Maybe. But when Amiga Technologies stepped in that industry was already dead.
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corto wrote:
Which magic in ia32 and amd64 are you thinking about ? PPC is a modern and clean processor. If it was more popular, processors and compilers will be even better.
What makes the PPC any cleaner than ARM, MIPS, SPARC?,... Maybe ia32 is a mess but most of negative comments about it come from people that have no idea what the hell they're talking about. There are broken bits but most of the time that stuff is handled in the OS and simply doesn't matter to desktop users. Anyhow it's probably better to listen to people like Theo de Raadt et al. on what's wrong with ia32 opposed to passers by on forums that have uneducated axes to grind.
Whats good about ia32 and now amd64.... Number 1; hellava cheap. Number 2; Performance/Dollar, Pound etc ratio very high; Number 3; Lots of modern (read as fast) hardware around. Number 4: Did I mention its cheap?
-- Edit, forgot to mention what ia32/amd64 has that most don't
- Decent'ish hardware virtualisation support without breaking the bank.
- Hardware support for marking no executable pages. All ia32 makers seem to have done this including Via and Transmeta. In Linux at least this seems to be emulated for PPC and SPARC.
- Highspeed memory and processor interconnects within the same die.
blah etc blah
oh did I say.. it's cheap?
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by itix on 2008/11/29 15:48:24
And not to forget... HP released their OS 3.5 in 1999. That was quite late, wasnt it? Now how long it would have taken to port the OS to another CPU? We have got real life example...
We certainly do. It took Dr.Schulz about seven months, doing it part time (full time job, wife with newborn plus two very young children) to port AROS to SAM440, and that was a crap load of stuff being ported or fresh code. Had he been full time at it, I bet he could have done it in less then 12 weeks.
Dammy
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Its not about PPC beeing any better than ARM or x86. All I say is that Amiga alike operating systems should stay on PPC. In this way AmigaOS 4 or MorphOS can create communities which promotes for what they use to others. On x86 MorphOS or AmigaOS 4 would just vanish into nothing like BeOS.
Amiga doesnt need commercial forces to get known. The scene have served Amiga advert since day one etc.
With a scene and community which Amiga/MorphOS got now. Users get software made with quality in mind and not in commercial share holders minds.
Example to this is AmiNetRadio for MorphOS and AmigaOS 3.x (yes I write in MorphOS favour now as I dont have a AmigaOS 4 machine). This is just awesome piece of software. It competes bravely with iTunes etc. With some adjustments, this piece of software shows how the scene makes the amigaworld go around.
Another one is Titler for MorphOS. Its just awesome to be able to do simple 3D text/obj animations for video. If I wanted such software for Windows or MacOS X I had either to pay a lot or try the endless search engines etc. MorphOS gives the oportunity for the developer to evolve.
I really like to see PPC as an alternative platform. No monopoly is healthy, and thats why we as Amigans should help PPC in right direction. We might not be million users, but look what Amiga have done! Aminet is a proof of that. Its really amazing to see Amiga alive after so many year. Proof is that this is something that should be kept on.
Its night, and Ive seen James Bond at the cinema ;P But my words makes sense somehow. Conclusion is just that PPC is a great alternative to x86. If we loose PPC platform, I just dont want to see the end result. I quit computing stuff then for sure,...!
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I haven't been keeping up on PPC, so forgive this if it sounds dumb, but isn't the cell processor multiple PPC cores?
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Its not about PPC beeing any better than ARM or x86. All I say is that Amiga alike operating systems should stay on PPC. In this way AmigaOS 4 or MorphOS can create communities which promotes for what they use to others. On x86 MorphOS or AmigaOS 4 would just vanish into nothing like BeOS.
IIRC, BeOS had the biggest increase in number of users and developers when they went to x86. BeOS management, OTOH, :roll: Arch is meaningless TBH, it's about the OS that matters.
Dammy
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OS yes, but for Amiga to survive. A skip over PPC is not a good way to go. Atleast with Amiga on the PPC side. Those companies which tries to do something for the community like Genesi or Acube. They can earn because of this community. They wouldnt had a chance on x86.
You see, OS is not all about OS... its also about making it be alive :)
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I haven't been keeping up on PPC, so forgive this if it sounds dumb, but isn't the cell processor multiple PPC cores?
Single PPC core with SPEs, see Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(microprocessor)). Not very impressive for a desktop CPU (no OoO processing) and using a PS3 would be gimped by Hypervisor. Which is why the thread if AOS went to another arch, where would we be now? aPhone?
Dammy
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And not to forget... HP released their OS 3.5 in 1999. That was quite late, wasnt it? Now how long it would have taken to port the OS to another CPU? We have got real life example...
We certainly do. It took Dr.Schulz about seven months, doing it part time (full time job, wife with newborn plus two very young children) to port AROS to SAM440, and that was a crap load of stuff being ported or fresh code. Had he been full time at it, I bet he could have done it in less then 12 weeks.
AROS is written portability in mind. OS 3.1 wasnt and according to an interview of Olaf Barthel (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=42883) it seems that it was quite mess:
While I was still doing consulting work for Amiga Technologies GmbH in 1995/1996 I had started to rework the AmigaOS source code to build on a single Amiga (the original code required more than one computer, one of which had to be a Sun/3 workstation).
Andy Finkel had prepared an operating system build for Amiga Technologies, which I tried to get to work on my computer system at home. At that time the R&D effort undertaken by the company was picking up speed (only to be wound down not much later when the parent company, ESCOM, filed for bankruptcy) and I thought that it would be helpful to have a complete working build available for future development work. There was no R&D lead in the company handing out tasks, I picked this job myself.
It took a while to become familiar with the build environment and the tools. My goal was to reduce the number of different compilers and assemblers required to build the operating system. Ideally, you'd just have to say "make" and a couple of hours later you'd have the Kickstart ROM files and the Workbench distribution sitting on your hard disk. In total, it must have taken 1-2 years to bring the build to this level of functionality. I worked on this on and off whenever there was time.
Which again implies that Amiga Technologies was not able to carry Amiga development on. Not at least after collapse of ESCOM.
I also found this gem (http://www.cucug.org/amiga/aminews/1995/at951111.html) (dated 07/11/95):
During his key note address held in Los Angeles at the Video Toaster Expo, Petro Tyschtschenko, CEO and President of Amiga Technologies officially announced the Power PC to be the processor used in the future generation of Amiga computers.
The first POWER AMIGA will be available 1st quarter 1997 and will feature the Power PC 604 RISC CPU. Further models will be available later in the entry-level, as well as in the mid-range.
The Power Amigas will be backwards compatible with current models and will also feature a new and more powerful chipset.
"Our pre-emptive multitasking Operating System AmigaOS will be ported to the Power PC platform first. Our goal is to make our OS hardware independent to allow further ports on other platforms", said Petro Tyschtschenko.
He also added: "We have a clear business plan: We do things consequently, step by step. First, we ramped up the production and set up an organisation to handle the Amiga market and satisfy the demand. Now that we have achieved this successfully, we focus on research & development to bring new and better products on the market. One of the mistakes the former Commodore made, was to do too many things at a time, too many promises and therefore losing focus on important aspects of its business. We have learned from these mistakes and won't repeat them. Commitments and promises are nice but facts are better."
The developments will also focus on including more features in the AmigaOS, especially regarding network abilities and memory management.
The development of the native RISC AmigaOS will be made internally at Amiga Technologies. An R&D department is currently being set up in Bensheim with sufficient engineers to meet the announced schedules. Former well known Commodore engineers as well as new competencies will join the team in Bensheim this year.
This development project will also be involving a dozen companies in close partnership with Amiga Technologies GmbH.
More good news for all Amiga users: The Power PC technology will not only be available for new Power Amigas. Thanks to a close co-operation between Amiga Technologies and Phase V, a German turbo board manufacturer, a full range of Power PC boards will also be available for the A1200, A3000 and A4000 series.
This will allow a general migration of the Amiga platform towards Power PC in a short time, also for current models.
ESCOM declared itself insolvent in July 1996. Ten years later Amiga Inc announced AmigaOS 5.0 :-P
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taunusand wrote:
BillE wrote:
I wouldn't buy a mobile phone no matter who the manufacturer was. I don't want one and I don't need one.
Who can live without a phone theese days? :-?
I gave my cell phone to my grandmother in 2003. My life has been so much better since I did it...
It is just like quit smoking. :-o
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dammy wrote:
Which magic in ia32 and amd64 are you thinking about ?
Does quad core with direct connect architecture for under $200 USD count?
Dammy
Freescale has an 8 core chip running @ 1.5GHz. The QorIQ P4080.
It also has loads of on chip peripherals that ia´s and amd´s doesn´t.
But the focus for PPC market is not desktop PCs anymore. So we should not expect these beasts in our desktops unless somebody at IBM have the crazy idea of selling a POWER6 or a Cell based machine. I don´t believe they will do that.
To be honest, I think ARM and MIPS are better designs than PPC and x86. ARMs can do so much better with less silicon and power consumption than x86. They are cheap also, and sooner or later portable devices will take them to the same performance level that we have today with x86.
An ARM based Amiga could have all those benefits, but back in the late nineties, we had a scenario where PPCs were awesome processors, and ARMs were just quite nice chips. Who would bet they would have gone that far and that PPCs were almost dropped? It would be just like declaring that x86 will be at second place in sales by 2020
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What if Amiga Inc actually produced a product?
Nah, even someone with a good imagination would have trouble with that...
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Transmeta. They had a chip which could be a chamelion, supposedly, and be reconfigured to emulate x86, PPC, etc. It never worked right :-( At least not at any respectable speed (and this was 'respectable' in 2002, mind you..)
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quarkx wrote:
I haven't been keeping up on PPC, so forgive this if it sounds dumb, but isn't the cell processor multiple PPC cores?
On PS3, it's 1 PPE + 7 SPE. PPE code doesn't run on SPEs.
Xbox 360’s Xenon has 3 PPEs @3.2Ghz, each CPU core issues two instruction per cycle and it’s equipped with VMX/Altivec with MS’s Direct3D dot product instructions. 3 PPEs shares a 1.6Ghz L2 cache.
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AeroMan wrote:
dammy wrote:
Which magic in ia32 and amd64 are you thinking about ?
Does quad core with direct connect architecture for under $200 USD count?
Dammy
Freescale has an 8 core chip running @ 1.5GHz. The QorIQ P4080.
It also has loads of on chip peripherals that ia´s and amd´s doesn´t.
On “many cores” front, AMD’s Radeon HD 4850/4870 (RV770)has 800 scalar processors.
Anyway, each of QorIQ P4080's e500 cores issues two instructions per cycle. A total of 16 instruction issues per cycle.
P4080 use e500mc variant. E500v2 variant includes a double precision floating point. e500's vector units are 64bits wide i.e. 2X 32bit. This is like AMD's 64bit 3DNow SIMD.
But the focus for PPC market is not desktop PCs anymore. So we should not expect these beasts in our desktops
Hardly a processing beast i.e. it's like gluing 8 PPC440 with 64bit SIMDs.
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by itix on 2008/11/29 19:49:51
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Quote:
And not to forget... HP released their OS 3.5 in 1999. That was quite late, wasnt it? Now how long it would have taken to port the OS to another CPU? We have got real life example...
We certainly do. It took Dr.Schulz about seven months, doing it part time (full time job, wife with newborn plus two very young children) to port AROS to SAM440, and that was a crap load of stuff being ported or fresh code. Had he been full time at it, I bet he could have done it in less then 12 weeks.
AROS is written portability in mind. OS 3.1 wasnt and according to an interview of Olaf Barthel it seems that it was quite mess:
They could have easily used AROS code for their own as MOS did. Then there is AFA, there is no reason why the project couldn't have been done by a couple of great coders in a very reasonable time period. Ben and Evert already had a deal with Olaf for the source code and they pitched a six month time period so they had to know the status of the source code for a port project for a contract with AI.
Now given the capabilities of portable devices of that time period, why couldn't it have been done in a pretty tight time period?
Dammy
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@dammy
They could have easily used AROS code for their own as MOS did. Then there is AFA, there is no reason why the project couldn't have been done by a couple of great coders in a very reasonable time period.
Maybe Amiga Technologies was just badly managed.
Now given the capabilities of portable devices of that time period, why couldn't it have been done in a pretty tight time period?
Who would have done that and who would funded that project?
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by itix on 2008/11/30 4:10:27
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They could have easily used AROS code for their own as MOS did. Then there is AFA, there is no reason why the project couldn't have been done by a couple of great coders in a very reasonable time period.
Maybe Amiga Technologies was just badly managed.
AT wouldn't have been involved, it would have been AI since they were the ones authorized a PPC port.
Quote:
Now given the capabilities of portable devices of that time period, why couldn't it have been done in a pretty tight time period?
Who would have done that and who would funded that project?
I couldn't tell you back then who would have had the skill to do it, but there certainly some great talent out in the Amiga community that could have done it. AI had funding back then, they could have easily thrown some of funding from all the millions they burned through on a couple of decent coders to do the port, in house. They had Ray at the time, he could have been their internal project manager or just done a bounty.
Dammy
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dammy wrote:
If AI went against the idea of using PPC, but went with a mobile friendly arch, where would they be today?
Exactly where they are now.
Could we be busy trying to purchase a new generation aPhone this Xmas?
No.
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@dammy
AT wouldn't have been involved, it would have been AI since they were the ones authorized a PPC port.
Ah well... But Amino Developments bought Amiga in 1999/2000 which again more or less collapsed in the year 2001.
I couldn't tell you back then who would have had the skill to do it, but there certainly some great talent out in the Amiga community that could have done it. AI had funding back then, they could have easily thrown some of funding from all the millions they burned through on a couple of decent coders to do the port, in house. They had Ray at the time, he could have been their internal project manager or just done a bounty.
I think the results would have been the same as they are now. Amiga in the bin and Amiga developers -- including Ray Akey -- left unpaid.
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I think the results would have been the same as they are now. Amiga in the bin and Amiga developers -- including Ray Akey -- left unpaid.
I'll disagree as there were probably a good 100,000 amiga users back then. If a quarter bought the new product and AI got $50 before any upgrades, that $1.25M may have kept AI alive and employees, like Gary P, in health insurance.
Dammy
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@dammy
Sure, with a different AI things might have been different, or do you really think they were ever competent enough to succeed?
Anyhow... doesn't really matter, and didn't you move on already? It's hard to let go I guess :)
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dammy wrote:
If AI went against the idea of using PPC, but went with a mobile friendly arch, where would they be today? Could we be busy trying to purchase a new generation aPhone this Xmas?
Dammy
aPhone? Sounds a lot like aHole :-)
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Hammer wrote:
On “many cores” front, AMD’s Radeon HD 4850/4870 (RV770)has 800 scalar processors.
Yes, but I was comparing with the statement of "quad core x86" to clarify that multiple core PPCs exists and they even outnumber the "quads"
I agree with you that the RV770 is wild and amazing), but it is not x86
Hardly a processing beast i.e. it's like gluing 8 PPC440 with 64bit SIMDs.
Ain´t that a beast? Each core is twice as fast as a SAM and there are 8 of them and SIMDs also. It may not be as fast as a top of the line x86, but it is faster than any PPC machine we may find on the market
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Sure, with a different AI things might have been different, or do you really think they were ever competent enough to succeed?
If the Sheep Lord didn't have a a hand in it, maybe. If Ray was the project manager, it could have successful IMO. Key would have been something people could see a future for and getting the product out within six months, not six years like OS4.
Anyhow... doesn't really matter, and didn't you move on already? It's hard to let go I guess :)
I moved on from AROS, not the Amiga community.
Dammy
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> Who can live without a phone theese days?
Well I have a real one connected to the phone line - hardly use it for phone calls at all, mainly just my internet connection. If it were not for the fact I need ot for the internet connection, I would get rid of that phone too, they are just a nuisance.
I just cannot understand this obsession with mobile phones at all, who wants to stare into a screen the size of a postage stamp.
Phone calls at home are bad enough but if I am out I just do NOT want to be contacted by phone !
Therefore no need nor desure for one of the devices from hell, the people that use them seem to have no manners either.
Bill.
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@dammy
I'll disagree as there were probably a good 100,000 amiga users back then. If a quarter bought the new product and AI got $50 before any upgrades, that $1.25M may have kept AI alive and employees, like Gary P, in health insurance.
Ha! Only if a quarter of Amiga users bought new Amiga in 1993...
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Ha! Only if a quarter of Amiga users bought new Amiga in 1993...
By the time line I'm speaking of, I would have bought a new Amiga from AI. I held out as long as I could before going x86. Especially if the plan going forth was calling on devices about the same price but jumping in capabilities year after year. Guess I should have jumped on Amithlon when I had the chance.
Dammy
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@ Dammy:
Honestly, we all like you being on here with your lovely viewpoints.
But, er, whyis it then, that my 3700+ amd 64 Athlon with 1.5 Ghz ram cannot burn something on XP while trying to run two games (simple games) at once and winamp??
But yet, my SAM440EP PPC, only 667 Mhz, with 512MB RAM can run two games, amiga amp, and complete burning a cd??
I tried it several times on my XP machine, and everytime it would stop burning, fuk up my cd, and give me an error saying too much resources??
WELL, HALLO,
It doesnt seem to be a problem on my tiny SAM440EP running AMiga os4.1 to do it, so why dammy, why??
TALK TO ME!! PLease put me out of the misery of not knowing why XP is so Shet, and any windows before it so shet type of OS that cant, even to date, multi task simultaneously, as I knew it back then from amiga OS1.3 and now OS4.1????
Thank you for your time and any patience you show in your answer to this.
I say, let them stay on PPC, maybe the PPC architecture has something that we have all been overlooking??
EDIT:
If anything, let them upgrade to ARM, I reckon ARM may be the future for an Amiga OS, when people may want a simultaneously multitasking desktop computer, and hardware architecture that doesnt slow down an OS.
Then again, it may just be the way the other os's have been programmed.
BTW, I asked some friends to do the same on their computers running Windows, to try and burn something while doing other things that require cpu power, they were all unsuccessful in completing their burning of their cd's.
:)
Just my 2 cents worth.
Long Live our community.
I heard, they have sold 1300 + sam boards to Amiga users in the first batch, can anyone confirm this??
Kick Arse guys, keep em coming, and please upgrade the PPC cpu's to 2.5Ghz next year. :)
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I'm not a PC person, I'm a Mac person, but I've never had problems burning a DVD and doing other things on OS X, surfing the web, playing a game, never really thought about it, just did it. The other day I was cleaning some audio using iZotope, burn a PAL HD video using toast, surf the web with Safari, have Grand Theft Auto running in VMWare and Civilisation III on the Mac side. I could switch between them seamlessly.
The real advantage of x86 is that it is the architecture of the PC, all the computer development that has gone into it is available to you. That's a strong advantage, that's why Apple switched, the best, most powerful hardware is there, always.
Yes it's easier for Amiga to stick with the IBM chips, but the cost is over priced under powered machinery like the SAM. That was a major issue for Apple because it wanted to be a player in the computer world. It may not be an issue for a niche machine like the Amiga.
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"I say, let them stay on PPC, maybe the PPC architecture has something that we have all been overlooking??"
This isn't an issue/option (I honestly can't understand the yapping on this here). OS4 is done on PPC. Took 6 years to get there, and I doubt all developers got paid for it (amiga platform has always been a labor of love). To leave PPC is not an option, regardless of technology today, unless you are rich enough to hire developers full-time. And even then, why throw away all the effort that went into it. And I'm talking about someone rich enough with more than $100 million to invest in a company & business plan to sustain the development... and at the end is there room for another platform? (Apple has done well with their gadgets, not so much with their desktops) :roll:
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dammy wrote:
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Could we be busy trying to purchase a new generation aPhone this Xmas?
No.
I'm interested in computers - not in phonietoys.
After all this is (meant to be) an computer forum - not and phonietoys advertising forum...
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taunusand wrote:
BillE wrote:
I wouldn't buy a mobile phone no matter who the manufacturer was. I don't want one and I don't need one.
Who can live without a phone theese days? :-?
I can...
Mine sits switched off in my pocket all the time.
It only gets switched on when I really urgently need to make a phone call when I'm not at home - once or twice within three months...
And it's one of those you can only phone with - no SMS, no camera, no MP3, no internet - none of all that crap...
Neither do I need, nor do I want an "eierlegende Wollmilchsau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eierlegende_Wollmilchsau)" (egg laying wool milk pig)...
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Dandy wrote:
taunusand wrote:
BillE wrote:
I wouldn't buy a mobile phone no matter who the manufacturer was. I don't want one and I don't need one.
Who can live without a phone theese days? :-?
I can...
Mine sits switched off in my pocket all the time.
So, I believe we are three. Anyone else?
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by Gebrochen on 2008/11/30 22:23:57
Honestly, we all like you being on here with your lovely viewpoints.
I'm sure.
But, er, whyis it then, that my 3700+ amd 64 Athlon with 1.5 Ghz ram cannot burn something on XP while trying to run two games (simple games) at once and winamp??
Ever thought it could be it's a issue with your OS and not the hardware?
Dammy
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Could we be busy trying to purchase a new generation aPhone this Xmas?
Probably wouldn't matter to me. None of the really cool phones work with my service provider's network, but I'm stuck with their crappy selection because that's what works at all where I go. Not well a lot of the time, but it does at least work at all. You could have a shiny new Aphone on a shelf somewhere that wouldn't likely be one bit useful to me.
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by terminator4 on 2008/12/1 2:56:33
This isn't an issue/option (I honestly can't understand the yapping on this here). OS4 is done on PPC. Took 6 years to get there, and I doubt all developers got paid for it (amiga platform has always been a labor of love). To leave PPC is not an option, regardless of technology today, unless you are rich enough to hire developers full-time. And even then, why throw away all the effort that went into it. And I'm talking about someone rich enough with more than $100 million to invest in a company & business plan to sustain the development... and at the end is there room for another platform? (Apple has done well with their gadgets, not so much with their desktops)
OS4 is one of many Amiga-like OSs out there. I'm not expecting the final out come of AI vs Hyperion to come out well for OS4 TBH. Had someone smacked Sheep Lord over the head numerous times with a smart stick, he might have seen the light that PPC was going to be a dead end for desktops. Thankfully, there are several Amiga-like OSs out there that can be ported, regardless what the jury decides on.
As for Apple, I haven't seen any negative impact since they went Intel on their sales numbers, have you?
Dammy
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by Dandy on 2008/12/1 3:09:08
No.
I'm interested in computers - not in phonietoys.
After all this is (meant to be) an computer forum - not and phonietoys advertising forum...
I can see your in a bad mood, but I'll reply anyways. As we see laptop sales now ahead of desktop sales. As netbooks are gaining in popularity, I think we will see desktop sales continue to decline. If the OS will run on a netbook, why not a tablet. If it'll run on a tablet, why not a pda/cell hybred like the iPhone and Storm. I doubt it will be much longer before we see a docking station for those high level phones to turn them into a quick desktop. Think about that one for awhile.
I think AI had the right idea about going mobile, they just planned and executed it in a completely incompetent way.
Dammy
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by AeroMan on 2008/12/1 10:24:23
So, I believe we are three. Anyone else?
Not me, mine is on 24/7. If it stopped working, I would have a new one up and running in hours.
Dammy
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by billt on 2008/12/1 10:28:19
Probably wouldn't matter to me. None of the really cool phones work with my service provider's network, but I'm stuck with their crappy selection because that's what works at all where I go. Not well a lot of the time, but it does at least work at all. You could have a shiny new Aphone on a shelf somewhere that wouldn't likely be one bit useful to me.
Gotta ask, which provider?
Dammy
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Dandy wrote:
taunusand wrote:
BillE wrote:
I wouldn't buy a mobile phone no matter who the manufacturer was. I don't want one and I don't need one.
Who can live without a phone theese days? :-?
I can...
Mine sits switched off in my pocket all the time.
It only gets switched on when I really urgently need to make a phone call when I'm not at home - once or twice within three months...
And it's one of those you can only phone with - no SMS, no camera, no MP3, no internet - none of all that crap...
Neither do I need, nor do I want an "eierlegende Wollmilchsau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eierlegende_Wollmilchsau)" (egg laying wool milk pig)...
Well.. I'm surpriced!
My friends and family would think something was wrong if they could not call me :-)
But, just to support you a little.. When I'm at work my phone is turned of and if I have "too much to do" at home, I can leave it a place where I can't hear it. Afterwards I can deside IF there is someone that I want to call back ;-)
My phone has "all that crap" you mention, sms & camera is nice, but I have no use for playing mp3's and surfing the net, my miggy does that :lol:
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All I can say is read my sig. A wise mans words and you
don't need to be a geniuos to comprehend that.
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@ Persia:
Dude I was comparing XP not Frakin MAC. I know mac is alright of an OS, still slower than my SAM when I used my friends new MAC laptop in loading software.
The only thing slow on my SAM is Origyn Web Browser to load that is.I think its the way its been coded.??
@ Dammy:
:) (slight pause) :)
Well, Yeah, that's my whole point, imagine the Amiga os On a kick arse system, it would {bleep} all over any other OS out there I reckon, atleast from what Ive seen what my SAM440EP with os4.1 can do, with only 667Mhz and 512MB RAM.
Only thing is, they would have to let it support a lot more devices I suppose. Although, it worked with my usb printer, usb RUBBER keyboard,4 port HUB(which didnt work on xp, despite it being for xp), webcam, the only thing Ive found so far, was Camera card reader, but then, it recognises it, I think I just need to d/l the software for it from os4depot or aminet.
SO, all in all, in future, if everything pans out with my colleague, we will only be creating for AmigaOS4 onwards, MorphOS, Mac OS, and Debian, but never windows.
:-D
We have already started on our website design, itll be simple at first, later might upgrade if people like what we have to offer.
cheers.
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ColdFire??
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dammy wrote:
...
As for Apple, I haven't seen any negative impact since they went Intel on their sales numbers, have you?
...
Yes, I have seen.
I still haven't bought one...
:-D :-P