Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Amithony on November 19, 2008, 10:32:01 AM
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Im starting to take an interest in Aros also. is it like a version of the OS that can run on any platform? (Ala Java-esque?) I havent seen it in action, but it is definitely something that I would like to try out.
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It's starting to shape that way, EFIKA, SAM, and a meriade of x86 computer
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Visit downloads for x86 based systems:
http://aros.sourceforge.net/download.php
SAM440ep ISO:
http://home.tu-clausthal.de/%7Emis/aros-sam440-ppc.iso.7z
For Efika watch Michal's blog:
http://msaros.blogspot.com/
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It looks like the Amiga will be around for a long time to come yet.
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The last time I looked at AROS (I installed it), there seemed to be absolutely no compatibility with Amiga OS3.1 (which it seems is supposed to be the goal).
Is it yet even able to run a single Amiga program?
PZ.
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In terms of "Real" Amiga = custom hardware & official OS, the SAM is the way to go
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The last time I looked at AROS (I installed it), there seemed to be absolutely no compatibility with Amiga OS3.1 (which it seems is supposed to be the goal).
This had to do with the UAE Integration bounty, which sadly reopened again, because Richard disappeared.
Is it yet even able to run a single Amiga program?
There is LunaPaint for AROS, which is quite nice.
http://www.sub-ether.org/lunapaint/
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Oops... sorry... I saw paint program. :crazy:
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Fingers wrote:
The last time I looked at AROS (I installed it), there seemed to be absolutely no compatibility with Amiga OS3.1 (which it seems is supposed to be the goal).
The goal was to reimplement Amiga API so that Amiga programs could be ported effortlessly, quite a few programs were like directory opus 4, sadly either programs were coded close to the metal in assembler, or their authors saw no interest (or lost their sources in the process) in porting those to AROS, either way it' not due to AROS, you cannot expect a 3.1 program to run on PPC either unless on emulation (which UAE also does in AROS).
Is it yet even able to run a single Amiga program?
There were some straight ports, but perhaps more importantly AROS in 68k actually runs Amiga programs which then take advantage of some of the advantages brought by AROS, and it's code named AfA AROS (http://amidevcpp.amiga-world.de/afa.html)
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@Amithony
is it like a version of the OS that can run on any platform? (Ala Java-esque?)
No. AROS executables do not run on different AROS platforms, you need separate builds for each target. In fact current AROS applications are not guaranteed to run on future AROS versions either (I think the idea is to recompile when needed). Whether certain AROS version (1.0?) will sement the ABI and provide guaranteed compatibility in the future remains to be seen.
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Amithony wrote:
It looks like the Amiga will be around for a long time to come yet.
Hi Amithony,
Errr, yeah?
I was going to start a thread about that actually, you may want to.
I can't believe the amount of people that are posting with "join" dates of year 2007 and 2008, here and on AmigaWorld.Net.
Add to that, the amount of people in the last short while who are posting with join dates of 3 and more years ago, and they have under 100 posts, and many with even less than 20!!!!
Anyone else notice?
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In terms of "Real" Amiga = custom hardware & official OS, the SAM is the way to go
Except that SAM440, although a good mobo, is neither custom nor official.
Dammy
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In regards to my previous comment, it's getting very VERY exciting!!!!!!
(And wait till the NatAmi is produced!)
Also, all this would have been IMPOSSIBLE without the internet. I find that interesting.
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Dammy is right. SAM is not Amiga. If you remove the AmigaOS, there is nothing inside that reminds Amiga.
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dammy wrote:
In terms of "Real" Amiga = custom hardware & official OS, the SAM is the way to go
Except that SAM440, although a good mobo, is neither custom nor official.
Dammy
However, it is officially supported by Amiga OS 4.1 (with Hyperion Entertainment writing the drivers, etc.) and is being sold as an Amiga. This whole "it's not an Amiga" routine is getting boring.
Hans
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Phantom wrote:
Dammy is right. SAM is not Amiga. If you remove the AmigaOS, there is nothing inside that reminds Amiga.
Maybe ACube should put "Amiga" on the silkscreen somewhere on the next run so that you have your reminder.
Hans
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However, it is officially supported by Amiga OS 4.1 (with Hyperion Entertainment writing the drivers, etc.) and is being sold as an Amiga. This whole "it's not an Amiga" routine is getting boring.
If it bores you, don't read my posts. It's less of an Amiga then my x86 running AF since AF is directly licensed by AI. Unlike the past POS hardware that AI/Eyetech badged as an Amiga, SAM440 is decent hardware but that alone does not make it an Amiga. Now after tomorrow, if AI recognizes the SAM440 as AmigaTwo, then it's all fine but today, it is not recognized by those who have the power to call it an "Amiga." Now I could call it an Linux Box or AROS Box since those two OSs were out before OS4 was for SAM440.
Dammy
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Maybe ACube should put "Amiga" on the silkscreen somewhere on the next run so that you have your reminder.
I doubt ACube would be that stupid.
Dammy
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ACTUALLY, it could be called an Amiga(2 or 440EP) until Amiga Inc. WINS in court and Hyperion is ACTUALLY FORCED to stop selling AOS4.1, as they in fact have NOT been FORCED to STOP selling AOS4.1 by any court anywhere on the planet.
And EVEN THEN, AmigaOnes are FOREVER AmigaOnes with AOS4.1.
But, we all know (and some loathe) that Hyperion Ent. is gonna skunk Amiga Inc. in these litigation proceedings.
:-D :-D :-D
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ACTUALLY, it could be called an Amiga(2 or 440EP) until Amiga Inc. WINS in court and Hyperion is ACTUALLY FORCED to stop selling AOS4.1, as they in fact have NOT been FORCED to STOP selling AOS4.1 by any court anywhere on the planet.
Then why haven't they?
Dammy
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dammy wrote:
However, it is officially supported by Amiga OS 4.1 (with Hyperion Entertainment writing the drivers, etc.) and is being sold as an Amiga. This whole "it's not an Amiga" routine is getting boring.
If it bores you, don't read my posts.
Your posts happen to be in threads that I read; that makes it rather hard to avoid reading them. What's annoying is that every one of these threads about the SAM 440 and Amiga OS 4.1 ends up with the "it's not an Amiga" discussion. As an AROS supported I know that it suits you to say this, but why not leave Amiga OS 4.1 and the SAM 440 to people that actually have an interest in the system.
It's less of an Amiga then my x86 running AF since AF is directly licensed by AI. Unlike the past POS hardware that AI/Eyetech badged as an Amiga, SAM440 is decent hardware but that alone does not make it an Amiga. Now after tomorrow, if AI recognizes the SAM440 as AmigaTwo, then it's all fine but today, it is not recognized by those who have the power to call it an "Amiga."
That depends on your view of the lawsuit and the licensing agreement. The judge has allowed Hyperion to continue as if the original agreement was in place and it is legally questionable whether Amiga Inc. have any say over Amiga OS at all.
Now I could call it an Linux Box or AROS Box since those two OSs were out before OS4 was for SAM440.
And here we are back right where you started in a different thread several weeks ago. It is officially supported by Amiga OS 4.1 and it's being marketed as an Amiga OS 4.1 machine; according to the wording of the original licensing agreement, this actually makes it "target PPC" hardware.
Hans
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Dammy wrote:
Then why haven't they?
I don't know, but I do know that Hyperion hasn't been found guilty of anything yet, and the court hasn't told Hyperion that Hyperion can't sell HYPERION'S SW. I don't see any problem?
I've always said Hyperion should proceed sooner rather than later.
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Atheist wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Then why haven't they?
I don't know, but I do know that Hyperion hasn't been found guilty of anything yet, and the court hasn't told Hyperion that Hyperion can't sell HYPERION'S SW. I don't see any problem?
I've always said Hyperion should proceed sooner rather than later.
The problem is that Hyperion ain't selling HyperionOS, Hyperion is selling Amiga OS...
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Add to that, the amount of people in the last short while who are posting with join dates of 3 and more years ago, and they have under 100 posts, and many with even less than 20!!!!
There's one guy on here who recently posted his second post after like 2 years. Started quite a stir.
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Piru wrote:
Whether certain AROS version (1.0?) will sement the ABI and provide guaranteed compatibility in the future remains to be seen.
It will ...
eventually when the moon and the stars are right.
Staf.
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by Hans_ on 2008/11/19 11:47:19
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dammy wrote:
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However, it is officially supported by Amiga OS 4.1 (with Hyperion Entertainment writing the drivers, etc.) and is being sold as an Amiga. This whole "it's not an Amiga" routine is getting boring.
If it bores you, don't read my posts.
Your posts happen to be in threads that I read; that makes it rather hard to avoid reading them. What's annoying is that every one of these threads about the SAM 440 and Amiga OS 4.1 ends up with the "it's not an Amiga" discussion. As an AROS supported I know that it suits you to say this, but why not leave Amiga OS 4.1 and the SAM 440 to people that actually have an interest in the system.
Except I'm no longer a AROS supporter. Several months ago I transferred TeamAROS to Power2People and has since closed the TeamAROS ML down. I'm keeping the domain name since I do have emails tied to it. Even if I was still a AROS supporter, what possible difference could it make to me about what OS SAM440 is running since it runs AROS as well? Would I be losing out on a sale? Would I be losing out on any money? So I'm not sure what your trying to prove. If anything new OS4 tied sales gives a potential AROS box as well. If AI want's to endorse SAM440 starting on Nov 20th, it's a good mobo to do so on, but that is up to AI to designate and not for OS4 fan boys to do so. Nor could it possibly be considered a true Amiga, it lacks anything from C=, including but not limiting to custom hardware with custom chipsets.
I still point to the fact, it's not officially being called an "Amiga" two or four.five or whatever, it's still a SAM440.
That depends on your view of the lawsuit and the licensing agreement. The judge has allowed Hyperion to continue as if the original agreement was in place and it is legally questionable whether Amiga Inc. have any say over Amiga OS at all.
Original agreement spelled out what hardware could run OS4. Harware was either existing or AmigaOne. The hardware for the AmigaOne was designated by the other half of the Amiga partners, Eyetech. Has Eyetech designated SAM440 as an AmigaONE? The judge clearly stated he would allow continue under the current circumstances, which is before Hyperion went with SAM440, since it was about money and that could be corrected at a later date. So it's legally questionable if Hyperion and any retail outlets be held responsible for unlawful sales of Amiga Inc's IP.
And here we are back right where you started in a different thread several weeks ago. It is officially supported by Amiga OS 4.1 and it's being marketed as an Amiga OS 4.1 machine; according to the wording of the original licensing agreement, this actually makes it "target PPC" hardware.
IIRC, in the contract, all OS4 sales had to be tied to an approved Amiga. Last I checked, Eyetech has not approved the SAM440. Maybe they will in a few hours as we wait to see what happens in Seattle tomorrow morning.
Dammy
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@dammy:
Except I'm no longer a AROS supporter.
Please define 'I'm no longer a AROS supporter'.
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Please define 'I'm no longer a AROS supporter'.
Hrm, I no longer donate money nor time to the AROS effort. I do not see a viable OS coming from AROS other then as a 1980s-1990s replacement of AOS. Sorry, those were some interesting decades but time moves on as does desktop OS requirements. I put in a ton of time, money, and effort into AROS. I believe I've been apart of a team that push AROS forward, but that wall we hit was mighty hard and mighty high.
I still have the objective of a usable daily desktop OS that isn't a major PITA to use. I've come to respect the wall as it is and as it should be, and went around. I traded in the cat for a dog. :^)
Dammy
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@ Dammy:
DOnt wish to get flamed, but I cleared this topic with you a few weks ago also, that for me, SAM440ep with os4.1 is ads AMIGA computer as it gets for me. It is the first time I have finally been able to have a modern Amiga system.
However, if you want to call it linux in a box, mac system, aros system, even zeta system, then go for it, I dont care, IN my heart, and many who have bought the SAM440EP to run OS4.1 it is and will remain the newest edition to the AMIGA system and AMIGA OS range.
NOW, Go and support your MACS. TO me, every line and everything you say suggests to me you have MAC in your heart. THats all fine and good, My colleague programmer has mac and amiga, but atleast he admits that sam440ep can be considered a new amiga system.
Cheers.
P.S. HANS, Im with you on this one. Im sure Andeda and others owning a sam with os4.1 may agree with your open minded outlook on the situation of how SAM is being marketed as a new AMIGA board or system.
CHeers again.
DAMMY: Im cool with you, just letting you know, we all are allowed to have different viewpoints, but reality remains, it is being marketed as an amiga system or package.
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@Gebrochen
Of course we can love Macs and Amigas, the competition ended long ago. The Amiga is a great fun computer, something to tinker with. The Mac is a productivity machine. They each have their place.
As for Sam, let's see, over priced, proprietary chips. kinda buggy, yep it's an Amiga....
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@ Persia:
I have only used my SAM440EP with Amiga OS4.1 since it has arrived. I havent touched windows, I have had absolutely no need to. And I can not see much of a reason for this changing, unless Elder scrolls V or Gothic IV come out.
But big deal, a couple of games.(that I happen to love the series of)
I had a dvd running at fullscreen with no problems and n slowness. I have had 6 gmes running at once, with the sounds all running simultaneously.
Again, I have not yet experience and real or proper bugs like the others have with their screens and so forth, but ten, I have trned off the compositing 3d engine for the opacity like screens in favor of functionality. Once I had turned this off, everything worked beautifully.
Also to note, If I use x86 hardware again in home time, after hous from work, it ill be running ubuntu or AROS.
Another note here, at first I was concerned about the price of the sam, etc, etc, but now, I havent looked back and am so happy I went ahead with the purchase.
Not to mention, I am a first real time user of Amiga OS, as the last OS I had touched reguarly was when I was a kid 1.3
Add to this thatI am greatful that my farther had a simplistic view on life and always black and white, as he has really managed to wear off enough on me. I am only glad that when in my mid teens onwards, I had stopped using a1000 for homework, in favour of warcraft 2 and the like, that he kept it.
I will not sell that machine now, it is like a constant reminder of him, and the good times we had on it before his deathbed. I remeber as a kid, how he hated windows, for its stupidity of trying to make everything coplicated, in the sense of, the OS was controlling you, whereby he prefered the Amiga OS, as you were controlling the OS.
Anyway, hooked in my hub recently, with webcam, usb printer (epson), rubber flexo keyboard, and left one spare for other stuff.
Also I like the fact that I can rename my USB stick that I plug into the amiga, for fun, I called it dickhead, restarted the machine, and sure enough, when I plugged it back into the usb port, my amiga remebered it.
Since ive changed it back to Astone.
Cheers.
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@Gebrochen
Also I like the fact that I can rename my USB stick that I plug into the amiga, for fun, I called it dickhead, restarted the machine, and sure enough, when I plugged it back into the usb port, my amiga remebered it.
Wow. I mean Wow. Relabeling a volume, that IS just impressive. How can I get that for my Mac OS X and Windows!?!
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Atheist wrote:
I can't believe the amount of people that are posting with "join" dates of year 2007 and 2008, here and on AmigaWorld.Net.
Add to that, the amount of people in the last short while who are posting with join dates of 3 and more years ago, and they have under 100 posts, and many with even less than 20!!!!
Anyone else notice?
What are you trying to get at? Does number of posts somehow measure your Amiga knowledge, or the credibility of your opinions?
I completely fail to see how that's relevant to this or any other thread.
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Hmmm... hasn't thois topic little derailed from its original subject?
Anyway, just my 2 cents on discussions here:
1. AmigaOS 4.1 on SAM440EP is just a replacement for ageing Amiga classic computers with frankenstein expansion boards and tons of system hacks which make them barely intellegible/usable and some sort of "poor men's modern computers" using obsolete but pricey features. What makes this solution "more Amiga" than others is the official support for AmigaOS 4.1. Yes, I mean 'official' because unless Hyperion loses the trial, they are the authors of the software, so it's their right to decide who is gonna use it.
2. At this point of the Amiga situation, everything about "what's Amiga, what's not" is questionable. From my personal point of view, for istance, everything that acts like Amiga and has born within the Amiga community *is* far more "Amiga" than Amiga Inc's actual products (this, unless you think that the AmigaDE and the poor games they're selling are Amiga). So if you're asking me what Amiga I do own today, I'd answer that my actual miggies are my Athlon64 AROS machine and my AmigaOS 4.1 SAM440EP. And IMHO they're both Amiga, even if Amiga Inc. had not endorsed or recognized or licensed any of them. Oh, there's also my copy of Amiga Forever and my old dismissed A1200, but I rarely (almost never) use them.
3. Since I use both AROS and AmigaOS 4.1 I can see their pros and they cons. There are things better done in AmigaOS 4.1, but also things that were better made on AROS. For istance, try to place a PC cdrom on both operating systems, and while in AmigaOS you'll be forced to choose "all files" view in the Window menu, AROS will choose this view automatically, due to a precise design decision took while developing it (AROS uses view > all files on any volume that has no amiga disk.icon file in its root - this will be helpful when Michal has completed his mass storage bounty too). InstallAROS is also far easier to use than AmigaOS 4.1 install procedure. For the rest, AmigaOS is far more complete, but there were people hired and paid to code it, and Hyperion could start from original Commodore sources, which helped a lot.
4. A comparison between AROS and AmigaOS doesn't make so much sense, since one is opensource and the other not. Everyone with proper skill might improve AROS as he/she likes. AROS is not a competitor for AmigaOS, since there is no company targeting their products to the same AmigaOS potential owners.
5. All in all, both AROS and AmigaOS are flawed by an ageing structure and an almost useless API for today's jobs. We can continue adapting ourselves to use ported or rewritten applications, in order to painfully do things that users of other platforms can do in a single click, choosing from dozens of competing apps, using cheap and far more powerful hardware. Other platforms are aiming to hybrid calculations model based on the use of both CPU and GPU (just look at what OpenCL, CUDA and DirectX 11 are), while we're still looking for transparent borders in windows, or enjoying an almost-useless memory protection model in the latest release of the OS (15 years after any other OS got it). Evolution urges.
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by Gebrochen on 2008/11/19 20:24:45
DOnt wish to get flamed, but I cleared this topic with you a few weks ago also, that for me, SAM440ep with os4.1 is ads AMIGA computer as it gets for me. It is the first time I have finally been able to have a modern Amiga system.
If you want to buy the SAM440 for OS4, I have no issue with that as you may do as you wish with your own money. The only issue I have with the current end run around the contract that Hyperion signed with Eyetech and AI is calling the SAM440 and Amiga. Unless the Trio decides it's an Amiga and get the Amiga badge, it's not an Amiga. I can go get say a A3000 and run Unix on it. It's not an Unix box, it's an Amiga running Unix. The same can not be said for a SAM440.
Now it does pain me to say those awful Teron mobos rebadged were Amigas because AI/Eyetech/Hyperion said it was. I certainly wouldn't consider it an Amiga, but those who own the IP and their partners can and did. So I have to call it an AmigaOne and not a OS4 box. Who knows, in six hours you maybe able to call SAM440 an Amiga, or not.
Dammy
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persia wrote:
@Gebrochen
Of course we can love Macs and Amigas, the competition ended long ago. The Amiga is a great fun computer, something to tinker with. The Mac is a productivity machine. They each have their place.
As for Sam, let's see, over priced, proprietary chips. kinda buggy, yep it's an Amiga....
Its not what you have, but how you use it. I wonder if Newtek will release a version of Lightwave for the SAM? :)
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Phantom wrote:
Dammy is right. SAM is not Amiga. If you remove the AmigaOS, there is nothing inside that reminds Amiga.
Hence the new affectionate title of SAMiga. Which is half half. Sound fair?
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Caius wrote:
Atheist wrote:
I can't believe the amount of people that are posting with "join" dates of year 2007 and 2008, here and on AmigaWorld.Net.
Add to that, the amount of people in the last short while who are posting with join dates of 3 and more years ago, and they have under 100 posts, and many with even less than 20!!!!
Anyone else notice?
What about the price of Amiga hardware skyrocketing?
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1. I can't believe the amount of people that are posting with "join" dates of year 2007 and 2008, here and on AmigaWorld.Net.
2. Add to that, the amount of people in the last short while who are posting with join dates of 3 and more years ago, and they have under 100 posts, and many with even less than 20!!!!
As someone else has already pointed out, writing tons of messages or being here since 1985 won't make anyone clever. From my perspective, the fact that many former amigans felt the need to post to these forums is only positive: it means there is still interest in the Amiga platfrom. And, about people sending a few messages in years, I can only say I prefer who keeps his/her mouth shut, if he/she has nothing valuable to say. Regards,
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dammy wrote:
Even if I was still a AROS supporter, what possible difference could it make to me about what OS SAM440 is running since it runs AROS as well? Would I be losing out on a sale? Would I be losing out on any money? So I'm not sure what your trying to prove.
The more Amiga enthusiasts switch to OS4, the less interest there is in other systems, including AROS, Anubis, or whatever your preference is. It's very telling that certain individuals never cease to find a negative slant with which to derail OS4.x and SAM 440 threads. Whatever your motivation, it's annoying to have the same old negative trash repeated over and over.
I still point to the fact, it's not officially being called an "Amiga" two or four.five or whatever, it's still a SAM440.
It doesn't need to have the word Amiga in the name. Amiga Inc. themselves said that they were interested in porting OS4.x to that system back when their business relationship with Hyperion hadn't turned sour.
That depends on your view of the lawsuit and the licensing agreement. The judge has allowed Hyperion to continue as if the original agreement was in place and it is legally questionable whether Amiga Inc. have any say over Amiga OS at all.
Original agreement spelled out what hardware could run OS4. Harware was either existing or AmigaOne. The hardware for the AmigaOne was designated by the other half of the Amiga partners, Eyetech. Has Eyetech designated SAM440 as an AmigaONE?
The definition of Target PPC hardware in the agreement did not require Eyetech's endorsement, permission or anything else. In fact, it didn't even say that Amiga Inc. had to label it as such. IIRC, it simply had to be marketed as an Amiga and sold with the OS.
The judge clearly stated he would allow continue under the current circumstances, which is before Hyperion went with SAM440, since it was about money and that could be corrected at a later date. So it's legally questionable if Hyperion and any retail outlets be held responsible for unlawful sales of Amiga Inc's IP.
Rejection of the injunction gave the right to proceed for now. Whether they get to keep the money is another issue.
Regardless, I'm done with this topic. If you wish to believe that nothing new can be an Amiga because Amiga Inc. haven't branded it due to the lawsuit, go ahead. However, I do hope that the next OS4.x or SAM 440 thread won't end back up on this topic, or other negative topics.
Hans
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Back on topic.
Amithony wrote:
Im starting to take an interest in Aros also. is it like a version of the OS that can run on any platform? (Ala Java-esque?) I havent seen it in action, but it is definitely something that I would like to try out.
AROS has a live CD for x86 so you can try it out for yourself pretty easily. Just download the CD image, burn it to CD, and boot from the CD. It's been a while since I tried AROS, but it does look like an Amiga system and is pretty fast and responsive. There's just not much that can be done with it due to lack of software. Now that it has a native compiler that can compile AROS itself, this may slowly change.
I stopped using classic Amigas when I moved and left my A1200 behind (too heavy to ship across the world). I did briefly use Amikit, but, next to Amiga OS 4.x, it's sluggish (at least on my 1.6 GHz turion 64). After using Amiga OS 4, I wouldn't switch back to OS 3.9, especially now that I have Amiga OS 4.1. It is way better than OS 3.9 is, even when it's heavily patched with extensions. The SAM clearly comes out on top in my view.
Hans
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Now it does pain me to say those awful Teron mobos rebadged were Amigas because AI/Eyetech/Hyperion said it was. I certainly wouldn't consider it an Amiga, but those who own the IP and their partners can and did. So I have to call it an AmigaOne and not a OS4 box. Who knows, in six hours you maybe able to call SAM440 an Amiga, or not.
Dammy
Dammy, let me tell you something. These boards are Amigas. My mircoAmigaOne is Amiga because it replaced completely my A4000 with the hard drive taken from it and the same software. When I had A1200 and then acquired A4000, I simply transferred the hard drive to the A4000. The same with the microAmigaOne. I didn't need any emulations, UAE integrations or other workaround like it would be with AROS. Before the A1200, I had A600 with AmigaOS 3.5 which I replaced with A1200 and later upgraded to AmigaOS 3.9. The first hard drive for the A1200 was taken from the A600, but it was small and 2.5 inch and I replaced it with bigger (40GB). I still run AmigaOS on all these machines, and even the YAM version I use is and old install back from 2001. Some of the other software still have the drawers dated from their creation back to 1999.
I am an Amiga user I can tell you that these boards are Amigas. If you are a Mac fan or Windows fan, that's okay. But your claims repeated thousands times in your posts during the past years, are really boring now. You sound like a kid who hopes that if he repeats something thousands times, it will become true, even if the others say it is not. :lol: I think you as a fan of other platforms, not connected to the Amiga at all, are not in a position to decide what is an Amiga and what is not. Most of the Amiga users already said it is an Amiga and you can check their opinions. Even some people who are new to the Amiga. I believe the Amiga users, not you. :lol:
Getting angry because the SAM is too expensive, would not make it less Amiga either. The Amiga is more expensive than the other platforms with similar specifications since the 80286 days, but the Amigas sold even then. Amigas are sold even today, and currently all the Amiga dealers are out of stock of SAM Boards, which means that you have to wait. Meaning that there is demand for Amigas, and people prefer them for various reasons despite the price. SAM is an Amiga.
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@ Piru
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Dude your level of sarcasm is up there with the best, are you british :-D
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@ Piru;
I know one can do it on other platforms, but, is it a simple case of right clicking, renaming the volume.(read next sentence first)
then when you restart the computer, does that OS remember what you had named that usb Stick volume??
either way, I found it easier to do on my amiga (Piru must be MR.Mac man.) (smiles) which is fine by me Mac boy, I only have something against windows.
Anyway, I am happy to say, I prefer using Amiga OS4.1, and I am in less stress than when I was using windows, the start up times are cut down by 70% atleast at cold boot, and warm booting is further cut down.
there are many other things I prefer versus MS and other OS's.
If I do use another os, it is on my spare setup x86 with AROS or Ubuntu.
AS for my xp, havent touched it, and only plan to emulate windows momentarily to retrieve some data from that piece of {bleep} OS(IMHO). Only thing that may get me on it, is the emulation of AmiKit, I liked Magellan and all those adf's I d/l'ed (alien breed 2 : the killing grounds "LOVE IT")
Luckily, I only have to use it at work these days, and every day for the 5 days I use it, it pisses me off contantly, at how slow my 3ghz machine is with 1.5 gig ram, just to load up in the mornings, not to mention during working on it, be it pdfs or CAD.(bloody programming of the MS OS if you ask me, that MS OS would have to be reprogrammed entirely to be any good in my eyes)
Honestly, after using a friends mac semi reguarly, Id rather a mac on x86 than piece of {bleep} windows. But they both have downsides, macs can also be slow, due to them saving a file or executable like photoshop after opening, so it opens faster the next time you open it, WTF, who thought of that.
Anyway, Your alright Piru, Ive grown to like your humour and sarcasm bull. haha.
cheers.
:-D
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@Gebrochen
I know one can do it on other platforms, but, is it a simple case of right clicking, renaming the volume.(read next sentence first)
Yes. Even easier. For example with Mac OS X you just doubleclick the label and type the new name.
(http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/usbstickrenamemacosx.png)
then when you restart the computer, does that OS remember what you had named that usb Stick volume??
There is nothing for the OS to remember. The filesystem has been relabeled, of course the new name will appear. This works with every OS that has USB, massstorage and FAT support.
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paolone wrote:
3. Since I use both AROS and AmigaOS 4.1 I can see their pros and they cons. There are things better done in AmigaOS 4.1, but also things that were better made on AROS. For istance, try to place a PC cdrom on both operating systems, and while in AmigaOS you'll be forced to choose "all files" view in the Window menu, AROS will choose this view automatically, due to a precise design decision took while developing it (AROS uses view > all files on any volume that has no amiga disk.icon file in its root - this will be helpful when Michal has completed his mass storage bounty too).
Well, gee... you need a bounty to change envarc:sys/def_disk.info? :roll:
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Piru wrote:
Yes. Even easier. For example with Mac OS X you just doubleclick the label and type the new name.
(http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/usbstickrenamemacosx.png)
There is nothing for the OS to remember. The filesystem has been relabeled, of course the new name will appear. This works with every OS that has USB, massstorage and FAT support.
I dont find double-clicking the labelname particularly intuitive, and looking from the accidently renamed files/volumes I find on other people's macs, it's not really usefull.
Anyhow... what I really like with amiga systems, is that you can remove a device with programs still open on it, the OS wont panick, nor will it kill the programs or anything other nasty stuff. It will just ask the user to insert the disk/whatever when needed, recognise it and move on. Try that with windows, OSX, linux etc.
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kolla wrote:
Piru wrote:
Yes. Even easier. For example with Mac OS X you just doubleclick the label and type the new name.
(http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/usbstickrenamemacosx.png)
There is nothing for the OS to remember. The filesystem has been relabeled, of course the new name will appear. This works with every OS that has USB, massstorage and FAT support.
I dont find double-clicking the labelname particularly intuitive, and looking from the accidently renamed files/volumes I find on other people's macs, it's not really usefull.
Anyhow... what I really like with amiga systems, is that you can remove a device with programs still open on it, the OS wont panick, nor will it kill the programs or anything other nasty stuff. It will just ask the user to insert the disk/whatever when needed, recognise it and move on. Try that with windows, OSX, linux etc.
Only the AmigaOS designers felt the need for offline filesystems... AROS supports this feature too...
While I miss the feature, which I'm used to from the Amiga days... I'm not sure it's actually a useful feature anymore... and is actually somewhat inconsistent design...
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by drHirudo on 2008/11/20 10:30:52
Dammy, let me tell you something. These boards are Amigas.
In that case, my ASUS mobos are Amigas. They run AF quiet nicely and it's an official Licensed product of Amiga Inc. :roll:
Dammy
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bloodline wrote:
Only the AmigaOS designers felt the need for offline filesystems... AROS supports this feature too...
While I miss the feature, which I'm used to from the Amiga days... I'm not sure it's actually a useful feature anymore... and is actually somewhat inconsistent design...
Obviously you dont own gadgets that people around you feel they need to have a look at. I can tell you, owning a linux phone or pda with mounted memory card is a f*in PITA.
I also very often want to just rip out usb devices without having to dismount.. oh no busy, close program, still busy, change cwd of a shell... finally not busy, dismount, rip out. Really, i find this issue a total mess on all so called modern systems.
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@bloodline:
While I miss the feature, which I'm used to from the Amiga days... I'm not sure it's actually a useful feature anymore... and is actually somewhat inconsistent design...
If program is on memory why do the os should care if it is on it's physical location? And while we're here why the hell I'm forbiden to open the same pic on several apps? Evolution?
-
Yes, I'm one of those former Amiga users, and my renewed interest has continued to build over the last year or so. There's so much good work going on in Amiga world (but not by the trademark holder, apparently) that a revival seems to be in place. It is very exciting. The more work that is done, the more interest will be generated -- and soon noticed by computer publications too? Could be huge. Hope so.
Atheist wrote:
Amithony wrote:
It looks like the Amiga will be around for a long time to come yet.
Hi Amithony,
Errr, yeah?
I was going to start a thread about that actually, you may want to.
I can't believe the amount of people that are posting with "join" dates of year 2007 and 2008, here and on AmigaWorld.Net.
Add to that, the amount of people in the last short while who are posting with join dates of 3 and more years ago, and they have under 100 posts, and many with even less than 20!!!!
Anyone else notice?
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Atheist wrote:
Errr, yeah?
I was going to start a thread about that actually, you may want to.
I can't believe the amount of people that are posting with "join" dates of year 2007 and 2008, here and on AmigaWorld.Net.
Add to that, the amount of people in the last short while who are posting with join dates of 3 and more years ago, and they have under 100 posts, and many with even less than 20!!!!
Anyone else notice?
I´ve joined Amiga.org in 2007, but I´ve been driving an Amiga since 92, and I´ve been a fan since the days I was programming my Sinclair and bought my first Your Sinclair magazine that had an Amiga ad.
It means, I just discovered Aorg last year. I was lost, it saved me!!
:-D
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If program is on memory why do the os should care if it is on it's physical location? And while we're here why the hell I'm forbiden to open the same pic on several apps? Evolution?
No, it's the simple need to avoid that program A could modify the file X using an older version, since program B has already modified it before (and program A is not aware of this change by program B). Programs making changes to important files should always lock them while they're open. This might be not true for all kind of files. For istance, when I modify a HTML page with FrontPage, I can open it both with IE and Firefox. But there is a little difference between an editor and a viewer: the latter is not supposed to modify the file.
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Hi Amithony,
Errr, yeah?
I was going to start a thread about that actually, you may want to.
I can't believe the amount of people that are posting with "join" dates of year 2007 and 2008, here and on AmigaWorld.Net.
Add to that, the amount of people in the last short while who are posting with join dates of 3 and more years ago, and they have under 100 posts, and many with even less than 20!!!!
Anyone else notice?
The tide is starting to change. I cant wait to get my SAM. As long as it has OS4.1 it is good enough to be an Amiga to me. Walk, talk and quack like a duck. But runs like a roadrunner. Bring it on! :)
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Vesalia changed the ETA for SAM boards to December 2008. First it was November 21st, next it changed to November 26, and now December. The people who bought them back in September are lucky to have the boards now. The rest have to wait :( I wonder how many SAM boards are manufactured now? I hope more than thousand.
-
Perhaps they made as many as 50 in the first batch? And now another 50?
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pixie wrote:
@bloodline:
While I miss the feature, which I'm used to from the Amiga days... I'm not sure it's actually a useful feature anymore... and is actually somewhat inconsistent design...
If program is on memory why do the os should care if it is on it's physical location? And while we're here why the hell I'm forbiden to open the same pic on several apps? Evolution?
Different and unrelated issue. You are speaking of "File Locks", I am speaking about off line file systems.
-
In that case, my ASUS mobos are Amigas. They run AF quiet nicely and it's an official Licensed product of Amiga Inc.
Well the difference is that WinUAE is emulation.. but still, if I had an Amithlon box, I'd probably refer to it as "my Amiga" too.
And btw.. if anyone wants to use IRC from AROS, WookieChat is available :)
(Just set the stack correctly, for some reason AROS doesnt take the stack value from the icon :(
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jahc wrote:
In that case, my ASUS mobos are Amigas. They run AF quiet nicely and it's an official Licensed product of Amiga Inc.
Well the difference is that WinUAE is emulation.. but still, if I had an Amithlon box, I'd probably refer to it as "my Amiga" too.
With all due respect here... but really what makes the difference between emulation and native now...?
I say this as someone who loves to fire up his A500 and marvel at what those Crazy Amiga guys managed back exactly 20 years ago today...
But for serious usage... well you know what I mean :-)
-
With all due respect here... but really what makes the difference between emulation and native now...?
Well, I guess it doesnt really matter, the end result is more or less the same. I guess it matters to some people, which is why I mentioned it.
-
Actually I noticed a few differences right away. My loading time to get into xp versus amiga are substantially reduced, so mcuh though, I dont even have time to take off a t-shirt and amiga is already loaded.
With my xp it was like I could change my whole outfit.
Another difference, would be the fact that it actually loads directly amiga, versus, having to see that pittyful windows loading sequence, then running the emulate ontop of windows, hence, IT ISNT AN AMIGA.
ANother note here, I had nothing but problems when I wanted to run simple things like IBrowse, Sound, Playing a dvd, couldnt burn correctly, all this from emulation.
NOW, with my SAM440EP and Amiga os4.1, I can burn just as fast as easy as windows, I can watch dvd's with no frame skipping, and, I am not running ontop of another platform.
to keep it short, IT ALL WORKS, versus, EMulation whereby one is never sure if one can even use it to look at the web, as it might decide to have a fit.
BEST TO NOTE, I dont have to wait for my machine to shut down, my shutdown sequence is quick, it involves pushing the off button when I want to stop using it. UNlike xp, whereby your waiting another 30 seconds to a minute for it to turn off, what a load of {bleep} OS. XP controls the user, whereby with an Amiga OS, the user controls the OS.
There, DONE. Goodbye, and no more arguing over this shet, you either have a sam440ep running AMiga on it, then you can make bold comments, or you dont, and for those that dont, (EDIT) SHUT (*.*.) Up! and stop winging about it.
Sorry had to edit that, didnt want to sound too negative.
Cheers
And hopefully many happy amiga times lie ahead for all users, be it classic, or modern hardware.
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@ Bloodine:
@ Dammy:
Can you guys please tell me what Amiga's you guys own, Im just curious?
I have noticed that the users on any of the forums that are really proud to be amiga users, have a listing as their signature. So, Does that mean you guys, and people like you, only use your amigas once a week? once a month?
I could be wrong here, but, it is something that I have been noticing.
Cheers.
:-D
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Gebrochen wrote:
@ Bloodine:
@ Dammy:
Can you guys please tell me what Amiga's you guys own, Im just curious?
1 A500
2 A600s
1 A1200 + BlizzPPC + BVision
1 A1200 (kept for spare parts)
1 A1000 (in process of restoration)
1 Mini-ITX for use with AROS
UAE on my Macs
WinUAE on my PC
I have noticed that the users on any of the forums that are really proud to be amiga users, have a listing as their signature. So, Does that mean you guys, and people like you, only use your amigas once a week? once a month?
I could be wrong here, but, it is something that I have been noticing.
Cheers.
:-D
Last used my Amiga A1200 just under a year a go when doing some music production work at home, to get some dirty 8bit sampling and a few sequences in OctaMed... But by the time I moved the project to the studio I was using UAE on my Mac, for Octamed and did all the rest of the sampling using Logic Pro and the bitcrusher in there...
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
Perhaps they made as many as 50 in the first batch? And now another 50?
Your troll posts are getting really boring now. I know there are more than your wild trollish estimation, because I know more than 51 people who bought SAM. Any other wild, irrelevant, unbiased, non informative sentences you have to add to the thread, before going to MorphZone?
Believe it or not, AmigaOne hardware with AmigaOS 4.1 is more interesting to the people than ever before and the OS you are suggesting in your avatar. SAM is AmigaOne hardware btw, because it runs AmigaOS 4, and that was one of the specifics of the AmigaOne hardware. Even Dammy seems to be interested in AmigaOS now, but that is may be only infiltration to be able to trash it even more than before?
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Shutdown is one of the biggest issues and I HATE it on the systems not being Amiga. I hate it on Windows and I hate it on Linux. Many times when I am in hurry to get away and have to shut down, in non Amiga computers I always have to wait till the computer is really turned off, because many times when I simply press the off button, some apps is not closed, or some process and the shutdown is not finished and the computer works for whole night, or even weekend. On the Amiga I simply turn it off. Even if my Amiga saves me only 2 minutes per day, for a year that is more than 10 hours - more than a working day, saved by the Amiga, only by the shutdown process. ;-)
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drHirudo wrote:
Shutdown is one of the biggest issues and I HATE it on the systems not being Amiga. I hate it on Windows and I hate it on Linux. Many times when I am in hurry to get away and have to shut down, in non Amiga computers I always have to wait till the computer is really turned off, because many times when I simply press the off button, some apps is not closed, or some process and the shutdown is not finished and the computer works for whole night, or even weekend. On the Amiga I simply turn it off. Even if my Amiga saves me only 2 minutes per day, for a year that is more than 10 hours - more than a working day, saved by the Amiga, only by the shutdown process. ;-)
You may laugh, but if the package can be done right, there will probably be other areas where time is saved. Is it possible it will ever be as common as a PC again? :)
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I believe the sales/production figures are estimated to be around 1300 copies of AmigaDos 4.1, almost all of which are Sam boards. Hyperion aren't a publicly traded company nor are Acube, so you sort of have to calculate using their hints and some well place leaks. I wouldn't be surprised to see final totals around 2K.
Given that new Amiga sales have been zero for a decade and a half, this is a significant number, enough to prove that Amiga still can exist as a hobbyist computer.
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drHirudo wrote:
Shutdown is one of the biggest issues and I HATE it on the systems not being Amiga. I hate it on Windows and I hate it on Linux. Many times when I am in hurry to get away and have to shut down, in non Amiga computers I always have to wait till the computer is really turned off, because many times when I simply press the off button, some apps is not closed, or some process and the shutdown is not finished and the computer works for whole night, or even weekend. On the Amiga I simply turn it off. Even if my Amiga saves me only 2 minutes per day, for a year that is more than 10 hours - more than a working day, saved by the Amiga, only by the shutdown process. ;-)
Really, do you stay in front of your PC when it's shutting down? I generally cast the command and go away, letting it... stop the procedure 'cos "there is this program which doesn't allow Windows to shut down. Should I terminate it right now?" (no, sort of a silly operating system, don't close it now. Why did I decide to turn off the PC, instead?), so many times I found it still turned on when I come back again. :lol:
Getting serious, there is a motivation for the shutdown procedure, and this motivation is integrity of filesystem. We all love caching systems 'cos they speed up dramatically loading of files and apps, however we pay this with the necessity of shutdown procedures. FAT32, NTFS and EXTn filesystems can suffer from sudden power offs and, maybe this can be a news for some of you, Amiga filesystems too! If you turn off your Amiga during a write process, you can mess up many things. And, when you turn it on again, you'd surely prefer a proper shutdown procedure which would have avoided this.
When I use my SAM with AmigaOS 4.1, I feel the lack of a "shutdown" option in Workbench. SAM is an ACPI aware machine, powered by a standard ATX supply, so I can't understrand why I shouldn't be able to turn if off with my mouse, like I'm doing for years on PC and I ever did on Mac. This doesn't mean there should be a long boring shutdown procedure, but at least a simple one which checks if there are processes accessing to the drives and silently stop them before turning everything off, should be mandatory in year 2008.
PS: AROS just adeed one a week ago.
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FAT32, NTFS and EXTn filesystems can suffer from sudden power offs and, maybe this can be a news for some of you, Amiga filesystems too! If you turn off your Amiga during a write process, you can mess up many things. And, when you turn it on again, you'd surely prefer a proper shutdown procedure which would have avoided this.
When I use my SAM with AmigaOS 4.1, I feel the lack of a "shutdown" option in Workbench. SAM is an ACPI aware machine, powered by a standard ATX supply, so I can't understrand why I shouldn't be able to turn if off with my mouse, like I'm doing for years on PC and I ever did on Mac. This doesn't mean there should be a long boring shutdown procedure, but at least a simple one which checks if there are processes accessing to the drives and silently stop them before turning everything off, should be mandatory in year 2008.
PS: AROS just adeed one a week ago.
On my Amiga 1200 and Amiga4000 and later on my AmigaOne I have several power cuts while writing files (downloads) but I downloaded them to SFS partition and never had any loss of data with this filesystem. While shutdown is a good feature on the systems, it does not prevent a filesystem crash in a power cut - for power cuts there is UPS but one at the office is big and noisy, and I don't want such monster at home.
By your logic, if the FileSystems are expecting a proper shutdown procedure, then a simple power cut can bring them down and cause data loss. I prefer the SFS design which does not assume power shutdown and it saved me files and loss of data many times.
I remember having a power cut on a Windows machine some months ago, while doing an Excel table. While the result was not loss of the file, the data in it was messed so I didn't know what is recent and what is old entries. On the Amigas sometime I even don't care is something is downloaded. But it is good to watch your Amiga HD led, while turning it off.
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persia wrote:
Given that new Amiga sales have been zero for a decade and a half, this is a significant number, enough to prove that Amiga still can exist as a hobbyist computer.
The day that Amigas around will be only PPC boards (no more classic hardware to support), and Amigans will get a more modern and robust API, it won't be necessarily a "hobbyst computer" only.
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by Gebrochen on 2008/11/24 20:59:17
Can you guys please tell me what Amiga's you guys own, Im just curious?
Well, I would ask you to define what an "Amiga" is first but I won't. :P I own a A500 plus my purchased AF.
Dammy
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Oh my gosh, what a lame thread. Would a moderator please close and lock this thread?! Totally off track and mostly flame wars.......good grief. With supporters like this, the Amiga is doomed.
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ferrellsl wrote:
Oh my gosh, what a lame thread. Would a moderator please close and lock this thread?! Totally off track and mostly flame wars.......good grief. With supporters like this, the Amiga is doomed.
I believe you are posting in a wrong thread, mate.
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@paolone
MorphOS supports shutdown on Pegasos2 and EFIKA (and Mac Mini).
In fact, MorphOS calls the resethandlers before powering down. This way for example AmIRC will quit before the system actually shuts down.
The shutdown is lightning fast, too. If there are no slow resethandlers around the shutdown is immediate.
[EDIT]typofix[/EDIT]
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Gebrochen wrote:
@ Bloodine:
@ Dammy:
Can you guys please tell me what Amiga's you guys own, Im just curious?
I have noticed that the users on any of the forums that are really proud to be amiga users, have a listing as their signature. So, Does that mean you guys, and people like you, only use your amigas once a week? once a month?
I could be wrong here, but, it is something that I have been noticing.
Cheers.
:-D
You know where you can shove that idea don't you? ;-)
My Amigas aren't listed in my signature, and if I was you, I wouldn't attempt to say I'm not a proud Amiga owner.
At least no if your within arms length of me anyway. :-D
I work in an IT section and am forever trying to set the other supposedly IT experts onto the true path.
I see a lot of negative anti peecee postings on here which obviously I applaud. :lol:
But some of us have longer memories and are still anti atari as well .
That's true commitment to the cause, let me tell you. :-D
And yes one of my Amigas is a Sam and yes it is an Amiga.
If someone as bitter as me says it's an Amiga, there is no need to be listening to anything Amiga Inc may or may not say. ;-)
@Persia
Please, please, please get rid of the insect.
What inducements would it take for you to comply? :lol:
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And yes one of my Amigas is a Sam and yes it is an Amiga.
If someone as bitter as me says it's an Amiga, there is no need to be listening to anything Amiga Inc may or may not say. ;-)
Do you know by saying that one of your Amigas is a SAM, you don't comply with the opinion of one of the experts here? Please easy with these statements. You may harass some AF owner and he may seek for personal vendetta in years.
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Piru wrote:
@paolone
MorphOS supports shutdown on Pegasos2 and EFIKA (and Mac Mini).
In fact, MorphOS calls the resethandlers before powering down. This way for example AmIRC will quit before the system actually shuts down.
The shutdown is lighting fast, too. If there are no slow resethandlers around the shutdown is immediate.
I wish I had some device to play with MorphOS a little, but unluckily I haven't money to waste in computers I don't really need... :roll:
So please forgive my ignorance.
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paolone wrote:
Piru wrote:
@paolone
MorphOS supports shutdown on Pegasos2 and EFIKA (and Mac Mini).
In fact, MorphOS calls the resethandlers before powering down. This way for example AmIRC will quit before the system actually shuts down.
The shutdown is lighting fast, too. If there are no slow resethandlers around the shutdown is immediate.
I wish I had some device to play with MorphOS a little, but unluckily I haven't money to waste in computers I don't really need... :roll:
So please forgive my ignorance.
And why do you have a Sam then? :-P
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drHirudo wrote: (and I removed all trollish flame bait)
takemehomegrandma wrote:
Perhaps they made as many as 50 in the first batch? And now another 50?
I know there are more than your wild estimation, because I know more than 51 people who bought SAM.
Could you list them here?
Any other wild, irrelevant, unbiased, non informative sentences you have to add to the thread
Sorry if I upset you, I'm just trying to be a bit realistic here. Maybe 50+50 is an understatement, maybe 200 would be more realistic, I don't know, but if so it would be interesting if you or anyone else could enlighten me with some *realistic* assumptions instead of just vomiting all over the place? I haven't seen *anything* in online forums that suggests "thousands" as you said before. If only a minor part of the users would acknowledge themselves in online forums (which was more true a few years ago than now IMHO), then I would say that less than 100 is a reasonable assumption. And you have to take into account that the price is so high that most people would hesitate even if the hardware hadn't been so underpowered. I don't think it's as easy to sell as you want to believe. "Thousands" today is all Amiga users combined, which includes all the classic flavors (the majority), emulators, MorphOS, AROS, and the whole shebang.
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woot another post for me!
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@ Paolone:
It seems like you have simply gotton used to the sheepish off style system.
Personally what you say is rubbish, using and clicking with the mouse already wastes seconds versus push of off Button.
Another note, Have you considered the fact that maybe we should start having tv systems operating the same way, whereby you have to go into a menu first to turn it off??
Wouldnt that be a fantastical idea (NOT)
Anyway, clearly some of you on here have no appreciation of the simplicity, and actually want extra steps to do things.
@ Dr Hirudo:
I agree with you, the new Amiga OS4.1 and sam440ep are a nice little match make, I still havent found a need to even turn on my xp machine, and its been over 2 weeks now since I recieved the sam440ep amiga system.
THAT, just prooves that even a new found user, like myself, with lack of knowledge of how to operate an Amiga OS can easily adjust themselves to an OS that lets the user control the OS.
@ All,
I still am happy I made the decision to buy an Amiga system versus the other OS's. BUt I will say, I am happy to use Ubuntu or Debian alongside the Amiga OS.
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@ Tired Of Life:
I can not remember bringing you into this conversation??
Nor do I remeber even being against anything you have said in the past??
That aside, I am happy to hear you do that, I also like stating when asked or in a situation, that I use Amiga.
I have even placed it in my cv, alongsite computer literate, like this:
COmputer Literate : Amiga, Mac and PC
:)
Cheers.
And, Calm down will you.
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And why do you have a Sam then?
You wouldn't ever believe. :roll:
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by Gebrochen on 2008/11/27 3:24:11
@ Paolone: It seems like you have simply gotton used to the sheepish off style system. Personally what you say is rubbish, using and clicking with the mouse already wastes seconds versus push of off Button.
I could answer you haven't yet evolved and you're still handling a mace instead of using kindness, if you like this style of discussions (it wouldn't be a surprise anymore, though), but I prefer to point out that using a mouse or a push button to turn off computers is only a matter of habits. If my computer is placed under the desk, it is far more handy to shut it off with a menu command, than going down and look for a damn button near the foot of the case. So I propose to make peace and allow people turning off their computer how they like without stupid prejudices and silly assumptions.
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@Gebrochen
Personally what you say is rubbish, using and clicking with the mouse already wastes seconds versus push of off Button.
ATX PSUs take 4 second to shut down when you force the shutdown from the power button. Shutdown command or menu option is faster than that (well it is on MorphOS at least).
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One could always hack a traditional on/off switch to ATX PSU's wakeup signal ;) That would be pretty instant.
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Piru wrote:
@Gebrochen
Personally what you say is rubbish, using and clicking with the mouse already wastes seconds versus push of off Button.
ATX PSUs take 4 second to shut down when you force the shutdown from the power button. Shutdown command or menu option is faster than that (well it is on MorphOS at least).
Are you sure you're not talking about the press and hold shutdown, which instantly powers off the PSU, as opposed to just pressing the button, which as far as I can tell is exactly the same as going 'Start->Shutdown->turn off computer' and starts immediately...
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And it takes at least 4 seconds when holdding down the power button to switch it off.
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Yes, but what he meant was that pressing the power button once would send the command to OS for shutdown which would then imidiately shut it down. Just like in windows and every other OS I can tell it to shutdown if power button is pressed.
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@ Gebrochen
You can't have read my post or your own properly.
You made a comment that could be interpreted in a way that would suggest if you don't have Amigas listed in your tag, you are not a proud Amiga owner.
Now as I don't have Amigas in my tag, it could be argued that it's a dig at me and others like me.
That's how you brought me into the conversation and said something against me.
Now having said all that, I wasn't actually serious, I was just pulling your leg.
I know sometimes this can be misinterpreted on a site where not everyone has the same native language.
That's why I put plenty of smilies in to show I was only joking.
Perhaps you are so quick to defend yourself, you are seeing slights that do not exist and it is you who needs to calm down.
:-D :lol: :-P ;-) :-)
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Again I am only joking, no offense intended.
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paolone wrote:
And why do you have a Sam then?
Why would you NOT want a SAM? :)
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JJ wrote:
And it takes at least 4 seconds when holdding down the power button to switch it off.
It generally depends on a BIOS setting. You can generally decide to turn off computer either instantly, or by pressing the PWS button for some seconds. Operating systems, however, generally have the option to "bind" the shutdown procedure to PWS button.
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on topic - the SAM looks interesting, and I wish I had the cash in the coffers atm to order one - past screenshots I've not seen AOS-4 running, and my main gripe 'oh how bloody typical' thought when it came out was that you couldn't buy a machine to run it on anymore...
The second 'eyeroll' came with the lawsuit crapola 'blood hell... it's like AmithlonII!' I thought..
So Kudos to Hyperion and Acube! I'll hopefully be ordering one next year (although I don't think I could be faulted for adding a 'when both the OS and Hardware are in stock' after the last decade of Amiga History).
I look forward to folks getting the kit posting reviews...
Off topic - wha? We've decended to 'what is an Amiga' and promoting old tech holdovers as 'features' and 'other OS non-sequiturs' pretty early!
When my 2000 started playing up last month I put it on hold while waiting for decent priced replacements to appear on Ebay and fired up 'old crappy' and dug up the variety of 'software solutions' from years gone by...
Personally I don't like running WinUae for much - nothing against it, just doesn't give me the right 'feel' for getting stuff done or tinkering with software... I prefer said things on a seperate system.. booting up and running...
Back in the day I ran Amithlon on it - but I've replaced some hardware and now its a bear to setup ... well MORE of a bear than initially... so I checked out XAmiga - (cut down gentoo linux running E-UAE)...
Emulation wise - was a LOT easier to access the internet and my other computers than either the 2000 with OS3.1 OR Amithlon with 3.9.... can't speak for 4.0 (as I said - I've not seen it - hopefully it's better than these 2). I uncommented a line in a config file - rebooted.. that was it.
To date I've had NO problem with either Ibrowse or Aweb.. dunno where the 'emulation can't access the web' thingy came from - I've yet to see any sign of that..
The clincher I guess is the shutdown (and I laughed when I saw what the debate had come down to)...
It takes me LESS time to turn off my Xamiga system than it does to turn off my A2000.
Seriously... and thats not 'turning off and walking away' thats from 'I think I'll turn this off' to 'Powered Down'.
It takes 3 seconds to powerdown that system from hitting ctrl-alt-delete (cut down system don't need much cleanup).
For giggles I timed how long it took me to reach around and flip the switch on the back of my A2000.... NOT INCLUDING TURNING OFF THE MONITOR (which the other system does as well).... 5 seconds.
Dunno - when it comes down to debating the virtues of the powerbutton I think anything productive has long flown out the window.
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@ all and Piru:
My shutdown doesnt take 4 seconds, it is INSTANT.
But then, unlike you old classic amiga's, my button is right infront of me, in a Nexus case.
Then theres the fact that it literally only takes me a second.
My xp, and many other friends systems with xp, takes atleast 5 seconds to shutdown, or in many instances, a lot longer, right upto 30 seconds. WTF.
Another note, I have no hassle wqith using a mouse in certain circumstances, but it is clear to me, that some of you simply have placed your computers in places whereby you wouldnt even use a usb port??
I have to have my desktop at arms length away, as I am always using the usb sticks, cameras, etc, etc.
So, yeah, for me, it is literally 1 second, I timed it the other night, it is INSTANT.
Like a tv, I dont have to wait for it to shutdown, nor when I walk away, is it still shutting down, it is INSTANT.
Let me repeat it for you not so cleue people, INTANT equals STRAIGHT AWAY, which is equal to RIGHT AWAY. No waiting.
Cheers.
Back on topic, I personally have another computer setup with AROS and LINUX. Soon I will have a Pegasos System also, running MorphOS. This is where the fun will start next year in our Development for AOS and MOS.
Cheers.
:quickdraw:
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Amithony wrote:
Why would you NOT want a SAM? :)
Because there are other (IMHO better) alternatives. I already have a Pegasos and Efika running MorphOS, there's nothing that attractive in OS4 to make me spending my funds on an expensive Sam-Board.
Also I find this calcuation quite convincing:
For more or less the same amount (bare Sam-Board (w/o case, drive, psu)+ OS4 = 666,90 EUR @ Vesalia) I get an Eee (The Eee 900A cost me 240 EUR) *and* a Mac Mini including MorphOS 2.x license (Mac Mini about 275 EUR, MorphOS 150 EUR).
Bare Sam + OS4=666,90 EUR or
Eee 240EUR + Mini 275EUR+ MorphOS 150EUR=665EUR
I took my choice.
For the record: If Sam incl. OS4 was 300 EUR I'd bite and add a OS4 maschine to my colection. Of course it is a nice system, too. But I doubt I would use it a lot.
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@ Zylesea:
Excuse me, but for those of us that do not deal with the PPC mac hardware, what is an EEE 900A, and specs of it?
Also, has MorphOS been ported yet to any MAC hardware and what type of MAC PPC type hardware has it been ported to, if at all yet?? If so, can you please write a list of hardware here?
Thank you.
P.S. I am most likely retireving a peg to run MorphOS this thrusday, that will mean I will then be running, Amiga OS4.1, MorphOS, and ubuntu for now, later Debian, duel boot systems. Cheers.
:-D
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Gebrochen wrote:
@ Zylesea:
Excuse me, but for those of us that do not deal with the PPC mac hardware, what is an EEE 900A, and specs of it?
The Eee 900A is nothing with ppc and nothing with Amiga at all. It is a Linux driven 8.9" 1.6 GHz Intel Atom netbook by Asus. It was just an example what you get for the difference a Sam + AOS4 costs and a Mac Mini + MorphOS costs.
And I spent this difference for that said 900A.
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@gebrochen
I think you missed the point - the point not being 'speed races' to shut off our computer, but to basically point out that your comments on the length needed to shut down an emulated system were incorrect.
It takes me around the same amount of time to shut down an emulated system as it does to turn of an original A2000.
....personally, as I mentioned in my other post - when your main point of discussion is how fast you can turn it off (because we all know how those valuable seconds add up in the day!) - the 'debate' is seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Of the many virtues the machine still holds (OS3.9 on that old system runs much smoother and better than windows xp did - also the programs... even bloaty ones - are much smaller) - how fast I can turn it off wouldn't be ranked in the top 10.
Then again - the Amiga has always been really good at turning off! Even all by itself! (guru anyone?) haha
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Gebrochen wrote:
Let me repeat it for you not so cleue people, INTANT equals STRAIGHT AWAY, which is equal to RIGHT AWAY. No waiting.
Some programs (like antivirus) take a few seconds to close, this isn't the fault of XP. Amiga has a lower overhead than any mainstream OS, that's basically the only reason you can just flick it off. Plus, you still have to save your work before hitting the off button, so in that respect s3 standby is actually faster - instantaneous standby, instantaneous resume with all your work as you left it. (Honestly though, a 1 vs 4 second shutdown is kind of a silly argument. ;-))
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@ D:
OK, well, in all honesty, my system always took between 20 seconds onwards to turn off. Most of my friends have xperienced roughly the same.
The turn on time also takes anywhere from 1 minute to 7 minutes if computer is on a network.
SO
I did not want to get flamed, and that is why I was being nice, with the 5 second {bleep}, which is totally untrue for a turn off time of the xp type OS.
BUt, you knew that ;)
Anyway, I just know, I find it less hassle late at night, I feel like I can turn it off at anytime. And er, when my system actually crashed/Froze, os4.1 that is, it also recovered my email I had written, so, what you say is not entirely true, about the autosaving.
mmmmmm, Maybe its true for older Amiga OS's.
Overal, I am very happy to say, have not had the need at all to even use windows anymore at home. And that has meant a more stress free life for me. :) as I am on my computer every night after work.
Cheers.
Hahahahaha, its kind of amusing, all this off switching talk, and yet the topic is actually meant to be comparing not XP, but AROS, Traditional and SAM, its not evenmeant to be comparing emulated. hahaha.
Have a good one people. :-D