Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: TheCyberCo on November 16, 2008, 05:13:37 AM
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OK, why does everybody call it a "new OS", if it is Linux based? Take the kernel add some gadgets, an intuition.lib, some old-styled amiga like window handling and name it "Amiga inspired" and therefore remove power from other well-running projects...?
OK, time may show, but I do not like Linux, so why should I like Anubis?
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because otherwise he'll eat your chickens in the night
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TheCyberCo wrote:
...well-running projects...?
Which well running projects are you referring to?
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adz wrote:
Which well running projects are you referring to?
Most likely something like Beos or OS/2... :-D
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TheCyberCo wrote:
OK, why does everybody call it a "new OS", if it is Linux based?
Linux is a Kernel not an OS.
Take the kernel add some gadgets, an intuition.lib, some old-styled amiga like window handling and name it "Amiga inspired" and therefore remove power from other well-running projects...?
AmigaOS has one major limitation, the Kernel. The AmigaOS Kernel was designed to run on a 7Mhz CPU with only 512K of RAM, in order to do that the designers had to make many design decisions... The most serious which is the pervasive use of Pointer passing between tasks. This imposes a massive limitation as to how to implement modern memory management (to increase security, stability and allow multiple CPU support). Due to this implementing a complete POSIX environment in AmigaOS is not possible... and since 99% of Open source software (OpenOffice, Mozilla, etc...) need such an environment, you will never see them on AmigaOS.
You could design a new Kernel for AmigaOS... but that would take a long time, be incompatible with the old kernel, be full of bugs, untested, unproven and more to the point just; like any other modern Kernel except without hardware support.
The solution, take a mature Kernel which already has good hardware support and use that instead. Job done, now lets make our OS how we want it.
OK, time may show, but I do not like Linux, so why should I like Anubis?
Give it time, you may never like it.
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If this new OS is on linux based kernel, then it is just another Linux distro, like the thousand others. It won't have anything to do with AmigaOS, but on the other side, it can bring some developers to it from the Linux community. For me AmigaOS 4.1 goes well and stands alone from the other AmigaOS splits/clones/immitations/whatever, and with the new hardware, people bored with AROS and who want to tinker with AmigaOS, can join with SAM board, or even second hand AmigaOnes.
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drHirudo wrote:
If this new OS is on linux based kernel, then it is just another Linux distro, like the thousand others. It won't have anything to do with AmigaOS, but on the other side, it can bring some developers to it from the Linux community. For me AmigaOS 4.1 goes well and stands alone from the other AmigaOS splits/clones/immitations/whatever, and with the new hardware, people bored with AROS and who want to tinker with AmigaOS, can join with SAM board, or even second hand AmigaOnes.
You are joking, right?
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If this new OS is on linux based kernel, then it is just another Linux distro, like the thousand others. It won't have anything to do with AmigaOS, but on the other side, it can bring some developers to it from the Linux community.
You have an amazing opinion for someone who has no clue on what your talking about. But then again, your just another red troll so I shouldn't be too surprised at your ignorance. To demonstrate this, go proudly state to anyone that is using OS-X that it's just another BSD distro and see if they laugh in your face or not.
Dammy
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You are joking, right?
No he isn't, he clearly understands what basing a new OS around a proven and modern kernel can give to the end user and what that will do to demand for OS4. I expect to see a WIP ISO release in January.
Dammy
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dammy wrote:
You are joking, right?
No he isn't, he clearly understands what basing a new OS around a proven and modern kernel can give to the end user and what that will do to demand for OS4. I expect to see a WIP ISO release in January.
Hang on, one moment he's clueless, the next he's a calculating Troll? Which one is it?
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Hang on, one moment he's clueless, the next he's a calculating Troll? Which one is it?
More I think about it, the more he sounds like a troll as I wade through some posts on AWN.
Dammy
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Putting aside my amusement at this development after the postal beatings I got from certain members of the AROS community a couple of months ago regarding the direction of AROS and forking...
My only beef with the Linux kernal itself is the sometimes pain-in-the-arse way it deals with drivers. Having as many drivers available as is possible is all well and good, but if your have to go through hell and back to get them working (or in some cases not) then it takes a bit of the shine away.
I'm looking at this project with much interest. I have a Linux/X-Amiga box here ready and waiting to give it a go. The main concern I have is if too much GNU (as in Linux/GNU not the GPL) stuff creeps in and it loses some of that amiganess. Other OS projects seem to be unable to withstand the urge to become yet-another-Linux. Only time will tell.
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uncharted wrote:
Putting aside my amusement at this development after the postal beatings I got from certain members of the AROS community a couple of months ago regarding the direction of AROS and forking...
Well Anubis isn't a fork... Though I will do my best to ensure that any useable AROS code will make it into the project. How much is usable remains to be seen.
My only beef with the Linux kernal itself is the sometimes pain-in-the-arse way it deals with drivers. Having as many drivers available as is possible is all well and good, but if your have to go through hell and back to get them working (or in some cases not) then it takes a bit of the shine away.
I agree, which is why I dumped Linux long ago... Anubis doesn't have to be so difficult.
I'm looking at this project with much interest. I have a Linux/X-Amiga box here ready and waiting to give it a go. The main concern I have is if too much GNU (as in Linux/GNU not the GPL) stuff creeps in and it loses some of that amiganess. Other OS projects seem to be unable to withstand the urge to become yet-another-Linux. Only time will tell.
Yup, let the project roll along for a bit and see how it works out :-)
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dammy wrote:
If this new OS is on linux based kernel, then it is just another Linux distro, like the thousand others. It won't have anything to do with AmigaOS, but on the other side, it can bring some developers to it from the Linux community.
You have an amazing opinion for someone who has no clue on what your talking about. But then again, your just another red troll so I shouldn't be too surprised at your ignorance. To demonstrate this, go proudly state to anyone that is using OS-X that it's just another BSD distro and see if they laugh in your face or not.
Dammy
Another red troll? The guy has made a total of two posts here and you're already labeling him? I haven't seen him post anything Amiga OS 4 related, so he could be anything.
Hans
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The main concern I have is if too much GNU (as in Linux/GNU not the GPL) stuff creeps in and it loses some of that amiganess.
That's been a major concern with the core Anubis Devs as well. I've been pretty impressed by their concerns for long term development so basic decisions (ie xcb vs opengl) are being thought out long and hard.
Dammy
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dammy wrote:
You are joking, right?
No he isn't, he clearly understands what basing a new OS around a proven and modern kernel can give to the end user and what that will do to demand for OS4. I expect to see a WIP ISO release in January.
Dammy
Personally, I can't see it having much effect on OS4 at all. I also don't understand why people have such strong opinions based on a teaser and a few snippets on some discussion forums. I'm planning to check out the WIP when it's finally released, and then I'll be in a position to decide what I think of it.
Hans
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Another red troll? The guy has made a total of two posts here and you're already labeling him? I haven't seen him post anything Amiga OS 4 related, so he could be anything.
Go tell me that after you read drhirudo's post on AWN. It's been explained multiple times this is not another Linux Distro but he keeps repeating it over and over again.
Dammy
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Personally, I can't see it having much effect on OS4 at all. I also don't understand why people have such strong opinions based on a teaser and a few snippets on some discussion forums. I'm planning to check out the WIP when it's finally released, and then I'll be in a position to decide what I think of it.
I'd say that is reasonable and prudent.
Dammy
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dammy wrote:
Another red troll? The guy has made a total of two posts here and you're already labeling him? I haven't seen him post anything Amiga OS 4 related, so he could be anything.
Go tell me that after you read drhirudo's post on AWN. It's been explained multiple times this is not another Linux Distro but he keeps repeating it over and over again.
Dammy
You sure it's the same guy? Anyway, the FAQ should probably have an entry explaining what a Linux Distro is, and how Anubis-OS is different. I think that a lot of people have already forgotten that Gateway was thinking of basing the next generation Amiga OS on a Linux or QNX kernel back when they were talking about the Amiga MCC.
Hans
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Just to make matters even, lets hear from a well known blue troll :ranting:
Back in the 1st A.org-thread about this dammy claimed that he believed he could be useing anubis as his main OS pretty soon, suggesting it would be a user-OS instead of another research-OS.
This brings up one question, where will the apps come from ?
If the do Amiga-like APIs they will face a even thouger challenge then with AROS, cos it wouldn't be matter of "recompile&fix" anymore.
If they port over Nix-APIs there won't be much Amiganess left, and it would be just another Nix_that_is_not_Linux_proper.... and probraly a crappy one at that.
Lets see how they plan to cut that gordian-knot ....
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dammy wrote:
Go tell me that after you read drhirudo's post on AWN. It's been explained multiple times this is not another Linux Distro but he keeps repeating it over and over again.
Dammy
You are mistaking me with someone else. Personally I don't care about AROS/Anubis because I don't have the hardware to run it, and the PCs I have touch with seem to run fine with Windows XP. I run some Linux Distros on them be it from USB stick or even bootable CD/DVD, but they don't offer anything more than Windows XP, and they are developed for years. How is Anubis going to impress the people? Will it have backward AmigaOS compatibility?
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Because he's known as "He who is in the place of embalming?"
Anubis, he patron god of embalmers: during the funerary rites of mummification, illustrations from the Book of the Dead often show a priest wearing the jackal mask supporting the upright mummy.
(http://www.neferchichi.com/images/godsinfo/woth.gif)
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Kronos wrote:
Just to make matters even, lets hear from a well known blue troll :ranting:
Back in the 1st A.org-thread about this dammy claimed that he believed he could be useing anubis as his main OS pretty soon, suggesting it would be a user-OS instead of another research-OS.
This brings up one question, where will the apps come from ?
Same problem AROS has... and to be fair the same problem ALL AmigaOS clones have...
If the do Amiga-like APIs they will face a even thouger challenge then with AROS, cos it wouldn't be matter of "recompile&fix" anymore.
Could just run AROS hosted on it... best of both worlds then.
If they port over Nix-APIs there won't be much Amiganess left, and it would be just another Nix_that_is_not_Linux_proper.... and probraly a crappy one at that.
Not really sure what constitutes Amiganess anymore... The feeling I get when I fire up UAE or my Real Miggies... and then remember how bad we actually had it back in the old days...
For serious work not a lot is going to tear me from my OSX boxes...
Lets see how they plan to cut that gordian-knot ....
That's really where it's at... let's just see how it goes. :-)
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You are mistaking me with someone else.
Then I withdraw my comment and apologize.
Dammy
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The trouble with defining Amiganess is that there is no company to define what Amiganess is. CBM folded, Escom make a fat Elvis attempt and finally was buried. Since then there has been nobody to define Amiganess. The current leaseholder (subletter actually) of the Amiga name only makes Windows Mobile games. So we are left to define what Amiga is.
The trouble is that we can't agree, and after 13 years in the wilderness the majority of remaining Amigans are retro oriented, not a good group to create a new Amiga OS....
(http://www.acfamily.net/forums/images/smilies/xmas/xmas-smiley-039.gif)
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bloodline wrote:
Not really sure what constitutes Amiganess anymore... The feeling I get when I fire up UAE or my Real Miggies... and then remember how bad we actually had it back in the old days...
Yeah, right on Brother - those Amigas were a nightmare. I'm glad I have nothing more to do with those...oh wait... :roll:
Time marches on, it brings improvements and new problems. We can do more now, we can do things far faster and far prettier, but does that mean that we were badly off back then? Of course not.
Looking at the Dock on my MacBook it's not far off what my Dock on my A1200 had when it was still my main machine, probably the most notable exception being Eclipse.
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uncharted wrote:
bloodline wrote:
Not really sure what constitutes Amiganess anymore... The feeling I get when I fire up UAE or my Real Miggies... and then remember how bad we actually had it back in the old days...
Yeah, right on Brother - those Amigas were a nightmare. I'm glad I have nothing more to do with those...oh wait... :roll:
Time marches on, it brings improvements and new problems. We can do more now, we can do things far faster and far prettier, but does that mean that we were badly off back then? Of course not.
Hahaha, my point was that it's difficult to define Amiganess... I don't think the irony really came through in my post...
We (as in all computer users) had it bad in the old days... no matter what system you used...
Looking at the Dock on my MacBook it's not far off what my Dock on my A1200 had when it was still my main machine, probably the most notable exception being Eclipse.
Good old OSX :-)
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The trouble is that we can't agree, and after 13 years in the wilderness the majority of remaining Amigans are retro oriented, not a good group to create a new Amiga OS....
Well I can see two kinds of Amigans: the one that would be buried along with their miggys and the one that's looking forward to evolve, but doesn't know exactly how to.
The first one fears the end of the original concept and looks at AROS, MOS, Anubis and sometimes even AmigaOS 4.x itself, as enemies to fight, since they are taking developers apart.
The second one would evolve to something else, but they'd prefer to have a company like "Amiga Inc the way Amiga Inc should be" that would give a direction. In a nutshell: if only Amiga Inc really did that AmigaOS 5/NG based on a Linux/BSD/QNX or whatsoever kernel, they would agree and move on. The problem they have with a Anubis is the same they had with AROS: it's the community itself, and not Amiga Inc, to pilot the flight.
It's not a surprise that people more friendly/positive with Anubis are the same that were friendly/positive with modern AmigaOS incarnations like AROS, MOS and AmigaOS 4.1: they also have hardware capable of running it, and since AROS and Anubis are opensource, they even haven't to spend a buck to try them. And it's obvious that the "bury me with my expanded A1200" people won't be happy if the community will choose to follow the egyptian god.
What I ask to those people is just to stop pretending anyone else should agree with them: time for classic Amiga has finished, like it happened for C64, Atari ST, Windows 3.1 and many, many others. A platform to survive must evolve. No evolution, no party.
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paolone wrote:
What I ask to those people is just to stop pretending anyone else should agree with them: time for classic Amiga has finished, like it happened for C64, Atari ST, Windows 3.1 and many, many others. A platform to survive must evolve. No evolution, no party.
Not true paolone, because an A1200 in an Amiga Fantasy case in a RELATIVE PRICE to today's HW WOULD sell in the millions. (Say, ~$140 US plus tax including HD and built in 56K modem, ethernet and cable modem.)
Of course, the CPU would have to be a 68060 @100MHz with MMU and FPU (that's not new evolved tech) and have full ram, say 1 Gig and 2 Meg chip. I'm assuming here your "no evolution".
But hey, we've actually WON, there's NatAmi!!!!!
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What I ask to those people is just to stop pretending anyone else should agree with them: time for classic Amiga has finished, like it happened for C64, ...
Wait, are you saying that C64 would be "dead"?
Well sometimes it seems that C64 scene is more alive than Amiga scene imho :-)
There are even new hardware products, such as MMC Replay and 1541 Ultimate.
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Jupp3 wrote:
What I ask to those people is just to stop pretending anyone else should agree with them: time for classic Amiga has finished, like it happened for C64, ...
Wait, are you saying that C64 would be "dead"?
Well sometimes it seems that C64 scene is more alive than Amiga scene imho :-)
There are even new hardware products, such as MMC Replay and 1541 Ultimate.
But the Amiga wins on the hardware front - there is Deneb, Indivision, Minimig, CatWeasel, FastATA, Lyra, SubWay, Delfina, Buddha. Well no new accelerator boards for years, but where I can buy SuperCPU? They have C-One, but the Amiga have AmigaOne, SAM, Pegasos, Efika. On the software front if you sum the releases on AmigaOS 3.x, AmigaOS 4.x, MorphOS and AROS, they are much more than the C64 released. So if you are retro computer hobbyist, the Amiga is more interesting, and more money demanding too. Because to have all these controllers and hardware is much more than buying RRNet and MMCReplay and attach them to a router in your home network.
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drHirudo wrote:
But the Amiga wins on the hardware front - there is Deneb, Indivision, Minimig, CatWeasel, FastATA, Lyra, SubWay, Delfina, Buddha.
Well, USB and PCI on the C64 ain't going to happen anyways, so why bother. There's lots of new hardware being produced for the C64 as well. The latest that caught my attention was the Ultimate 1541 (http://www.1541ultimate.net/content/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7&Itemid=20). AFAIK, we don't have anything like that in production on the Amiga.
Well no new accelerator boards for years, but where I can buy SuperCPU?
Well, how about right here (http://store.cmdrkey.com/agora.cgi?product=Hardware)? It's a few months long waiting list, but it's in production. I know, I was in touch with them a little while ago.
They have C-One, but the Amiga have AmigaOne, SAM, Pegasos, Efika.
Why list Pegasos and Efika? You can't run AOS on any of those? The Peg and A1 is long dead anyways..
On the software front if you sum the releases on AmigaOS 3.x, AmigaOS 4.x, MorphOS and AROS, they are much more than the C64 released.
Did you just make that up, or do you have some real numbers to prove it? $10 says you hardly pay any attention to the C64 scene.
So if you are retro computer hobbyist, the Amiga is more interesting, and more money demanding too. Because to have all these controllers and hardware is much more than buying RRNet and MMCReplay and attach them to a router in your home network.
Uh.. I... yeah, whatever.
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skurk wrote:
drHirudo wrote:
But the Amiga wins on the hardware front - there is Deneb, Indivision, Minimig, CatWeasel, FastATA, Lyra, SubWay, Delfina, Buddha.
Well, USB and PCI on the C64 ain't going to happen anyways, so why bother. There's lots of new hardware being produced for the C64 as well. The latest that caught my attention was the Ultimate 1541 (http://www.1541ultimate.net/content/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7&Itemid=20). AFAIK, we don't have anything like that in production on the Amiga.
Floppy emulator for Amigas was development long time ago: picture right on Amiga.org (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=1218), but the I prefer WHDLoad+Hard Drive (CF card) combination. May be because of WHDLoad, the floppy emulators are not popular on the Amiga. Simply because of no demand at all.
Well no new accelerator boards for years, but where I can buy SuperCPU?
Well, how about right here (http://store.cmdrkey.com/agora.cgi?product=Hardware)? It's a few months long waiting list, but it's in production. I know, I was in touch with them a little while ago.
Hey, good to know. I may consider buying one, after I have satisfactory Amiga setups I will buy RRNet, RetroReplay, MMC+ for the C64, but only after I have the SAM with big SATA hard drive and the best graphics card it can accept. Of course in a cool case. And then fixing the old A1200 with some additional cards, and the the A4000 with Deneb and Flash card. Oh well, may be the C64 will not get any attention at all.
They have C-One, but the Amiga have AmigaOne, SAM, Pegasos, Efika.
Why list Pegasos and Efika? You can't run AOS on any of those? The Peg and A1 is long dead anyways..
Some people claim that they are Amiga relatives (Amiga). Why else they would mentioned on Amiga.org in Amiga context. Probably the same way the C-One is relative to the C64. New hardware, emulating the old. I prefer the AmigaOne and SAM though.
On the software front if you sum the releases on AmigaOS 3.x, AmigaOS 4.x, MorphOS and AROS, they are much more than the C64 released.
Did you just make that up, or do you have some real numbers to prove it? $10 says you hardly pay any attention to the C64 scene.
I see the activity on once a great C64 news portal (http://www.c64.sk) and it is not as active as used to be. CSDB with all the graphics don't impress me at all. On the other hand Aminet, OS4Depot and scene.org receive new Amiga productions, even some of these repositories on daily basis. And I visit more the Speccy sites, where it have very strong scene in ex USSR (mainly Russia now) which releases interesting stuff, but you need to know Russian on some of the more active sites.
So if you are retro computer hobbyist, the Amiga is more interesting, and more money demanding too. Because to have all these controllers and hardware is much more than buying RRNet and MMCReplay and attach them to a router in your home network.
Uh.. I... yeah, whatever.
Yeah, I know I can connect only the RRNet to the router, next to my Amigas. With the contiki I will browse the net, or play some games. The C64 is good, only if I can get a proper picture with the Scart cable I have. But my love is the Amiga.
I am not attacking the Commie. Don't get me wrong. I like retro computers, as much as I like the Oric, the Sinclair and the Apple II. But saying it have more activity than the Amiga is if nothing else, a stupid claim. The Amiga is the most active retro/hobbies/alternative computer platform to date, and I am active participant in many retro communities, you can trust me. That's why I stand behind my words that the Amiga (in the classic and AmigaOS 4.x form) is the most active retro/hobbyist/alternative platform, now and probably in the near future with the SAM hardware now available in the shops.
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Well, USB and PCI on the C64 ain't going to happen anyways, so why bother.
I saw USB adaptor for MSX-1. As it fits the joystick port, I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work on C64 aswell.
Too bad it was compatible only with devices, that need only power through USB, such as lamps, fans and fridges :-D
(so basically it just connects power line to matching line on USB, no control over anything really)
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May I lay one suggestion and one question:
- I never liked the way Linux launchs tasks/processes: creating a copy of the actual one and replacing it after. It takes some processing time and it does not seems so useful to me.
Is it possible to have beside the POSIX functions (for compatibility), Amiga style functions? Having the code somewhere in RAM and pointing out as a new task seems more straightforward than make a copy of the actual one :-)
- Could hardware drivers run outside kernel space? Let's suppose, you could run the kernel in ring 0 and drivers in ring 1 or 2. The idea is to get rid of blue screens and lock ups caused by stuff running at the same level of the kernel.
Would this impact in using available hardware drivers?
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Atheist wrote:
paolone wrote:
What I ask to those people is just to stop pretending anyone else should agree with them: time for classic Amiga has finished, like it happened for C64, Atari ST, Windows 3.1 and many, many others. A platform to survive must evolve. No evolution, no party.
Not true paolone, because an A1200 in an Amiga Fantasy case in a RELATIVE PRICE to today's HW WOULD sell in the millions. (Say, ~$140 US plus tax including HD and built in 56K modem, ethernet and cable modem.)
You wouldn't be able to sell more than 10... Who even uses dialup anymore? I can't remember the last time I saw an ISP offering dialup!!!
Of course, the CPU would have to be a 68060 @100MHz with MMU and FPU (that's not new evolved tech) and have full ram, say 1 Gig and 2 Meg chip. I'm assuming here your "no evolution".
My Mobile Phone has a more powerful CPU, More powerful GFX (including 3D), better Audio and MANY MANY MANY more apps an games... Oh yeah and it has an always on Broadband connection... it cost £150...
Which would you buy? The Crappy A1200, 15 years out of date... or the Mobile Phone that I have?
But hey, we've actually WON, there's NatAmi!!!!!
Sorry... where can I buy this NatAmi? What makes it better than the cheapest x86box I can buy for £80?
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I think realistically this is the logical progression, since even if we truely had a proper new AmigaOS, it wouldn't run with a 3.1 style kernel. Most likely we'd have a new kernel with old apps running under emulation (like OS X used to do.) It's kind of odd how we're so attached to 3.x anyway, since there's nothing much on there that even remotely compares with any software you have today.
I'm not opposed at all to Anubis, I'll wait and see how it goes, in the meantime I'll still be working with AROS and maybe OS 4.1, assuming I get some spare cash for it.
The main problem we have is people who want to define Amiga-ness, anything that's not Amiga gospel is not for them, frankly I wouldn't be bothered with what they say, since nothing will ever be a true Amiga successor.
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Sorry to interrupt this high level and philosophical discussion, but, I was away for a while, doing some work for another vintage platform, but what is Anubis?
A Linux based OS that runs on regular X86's, have binary 68k compatibility by using UAE engine, Amiga style windows, intuition libraries and yet capable of running modern firefox, open office and etc... on my main PC???
There's someone fighting against it?? I want it!!!
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hbarcellos wrote:
Sorry to interrupt this high level and philosophical discussion, but, I was away for a while, doing some work for another vintage platform, but what is Anubis?
A Linux based OS that runs on regular X86's, have binary 68k compatibility by using UAE engine, Amiga style windows, intuition libraries and yet capable of running modern firefox, open office and etc... on my main PC???
There's someone fighting against it?? I want it!!!
The most sensible thing said in this thread :-)
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bloodline wrote:
Sorry... where can I buy this NatAmi? What makes it better than the cheapest x86box I can buy for £80?
Hi bloodline,
There are 6467 members here other than you and me.
I guess they should all leave and get that £80 x86 because you have shown them and me the way?
P.S. Funny story. Redrumloa just put an x86 together. It was ~$2100 US.
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bloodline wrote:
My Mobile Phone has a more powerful CPU, More powerful GFX (including 3D), better Audio and MANY MANY MANY more apps an games... Oh yeah and it has an always on Broadband connection... it cost £150...
Which would you buy? The Crappy A1200, 15 years out of date... or the Mobile Phone that I have?
Hi bloodline,
I know you asked me first, but answer me this; how is it that you're not a troll with comments such as these?
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Atheist wrote:
bloodline wrote:
My Mobile Phone has a more powerful CPU, More powerful GFX (including 3D), better Audio and MANY MANY MANY more apps an games... Oh yeah and it has an always on Broadband connection... it cost £150...
Which would you buy? The Crappy A1200, 15 years out of date... or the Mobile Phone that I have?
Hi bloodline,
I know you asked me first, but answer me this; how is it that you're not a troll with comments such as these?
Look back any my post history... Feel free to report me to the mods of you feel I'm trolling :-)
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bloodline wrote:
My Mobile Phone has a more powerful CPU, More powerful GFX (including 3D), better Audio and MANY MANY MANY more apps an games... Oh yeah and it has an always on Broadband connection... it cost £150...
And is there ANYTHING on it comparable to the ease of use of AMOS Professional & compiler?
So, the answer to your question is the same as the answer to mine.
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bloodline wrote:
Atheist wrote:
bloodline wrote:
My Mobile Phone has a more powerful CPU, More powerful GFX (including 3D), better Audio and MANY MANY MANY more apps an games... Oh yeah and it has an always on Broadband connection... it cost £150...
Which would you buy? The Crappy A1200, 15 years out of date... or the Mobile Phone that I have?
Hi bloodline,
I know you asked me first, but answer me this; how is it that you're not a troll with comments such as these?
Look back any my post history... Feel free to report me to the mods of you feel I'm trolling :-)
Well, up above you're recommending Amiga 1200s (I'll assume weaker HW as well, oh and of course all those broken AmigaOnes too) be thrown into landfill. I don't see a reason for this website to exist if that's your across the board advice to everyone.
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My Mobile Phone has a more powerful CPU, More powerful GFX (including 3D), better Audio and MANY MANY MANY more apps an games... Oh yeah and it has an always on Broadband connection... it cost £150...
Which would you buy? The Crappy A1200, 15 years out of date... or the Mobile Phone that I have?
Did you type all this from your Mobile Phone? Do you enjoy typing long post on Mobile Phone? Did you enjoy surfing on Mobile Phone? Do you play Chaos Engine and Sensible Soccer on your mobile phone?
I know I don't. And for Amiga.org browse I prefer my crappy A1200 over your mobile phone. Mobile Phone is good for talking, but not good for surfing. Got the point?
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Atheist wrote:
bloodline wrote:
My Mobile Phone has a more powerful CPU, More powerful GFX (including 3D), better Audio and MANY MANY MANY more apps an games... Oh yeah and it has an always on Broadband connection... it cost £150...
And is there ANYTHING on it comparable to the ease of use of AMOS Professional & compiler?
So, the answer to your question is the same as the answer to mine.
Yeah, the Apple iPhone SDK... Of if you don't have an iPhone, then any modern phone will support Java...
I can't think of a smart phone that doesn't support ECMA scripting, and that is way easier to learn than AMOS basic, even if the Document Object Model takes a while to get used to...
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Hi bloodline,
People come here for a good time. I don't think they're getting their money's worth when you sit here calling Amiga 1200s, that they may have spent $500 to get on ebay, a piece of crap.
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drHirudo wrote:
My Mobile Phone has a more powerful CPU, More powerful GFX (including 3D), better Audio and MANY MANY MANY more apps an games... Oh yeah and it has an always on Broadband connection... it cost £150...
Which would you buy? The Crappy A1200, 15 years out of date... or the Mobile Phone that I have?
Did you type all this from your Mobile Phone? Do you enjoy typing long post on Mobile Phone? Did you enjoy surfing on Mobile Phone? Do you play Chaos Engine and Sensible Soccer on your mobile phone?
I know I don't. And for Amiga.org browse I prefer my crappy A1200 over your mobile phone. Mobile Phone is good for talking, but not good for surfing. Got the point?
Did I mention I'm using an iPhone? So yes to all those questions... Well not the retro gaming ones... I have real 3D games and other useful applications so I'm happy :-D
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Java is NOT easy!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Unless they've rewritten the syntax from scratch!)
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Atheist wrote:
Hi bloodline,
People come here for a good time. I don't think they're getting their money's worth when you sit here calling Amiga 1200s, that they may have spent $500 to get on ebay, a piece of crap.
I have a whole bunch of real Amigas... Including an A1200 with 240mhz PPC and Bvision... I can call it what I like.
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Atheist wrote:
Java is NOT easy!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Unless they've rewritten the syntax from scratch!)
Depends upon your aptitude for programming it's no harder than learning AMOS Basic + AMAL. I don't much like Java, so i dont use it... The iphone doesnt support it any way... but You would have to have suffered a serious head injury to find ECMA scripts difficult!
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bloodline wrote:
Atheist wrote:
Hi bloodline,
People come here for a good time. I don't think they're getting their money's worth when you sit here calling Amiga 1200s, that they may have spent $500 to get on ebay, a piece of crap.
I have a whole bunch of real Amigas... Including an A1200 with 240mhz PPC and Bvision... I can call it what I like.
:headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall:
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Atheist wrote:
bloodline wrote:
Atheist wrote:
Hi bloodline,
People come here for a good time. I don't think they're getting their money's worth when you sit here calling Amiga 1200s, that they may have spent $500 to get on ebay, a piece of crap.
I have a whole bunch of real Amigas... Including an A1200 with 240mhz PPC and Bvision... I can call it what I like.
:headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall:
I fail to see what you are frustrated about... You are the one who stated that an A1200 with a dialup modem and a CPU slower than my mobile phone would sell millions... That sort of thing is strange thinking!
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bloodline wrote:
I fail to see what you are frustrated about... You are the one who stated that an A1200 with a dialup modem and a CPU slower than my mobile phone would sell millions... That sort of thing is strange thinking!
bloodline, what was I thinking? You've convinced me, Amiga 1200s are useless.
To the first moderator that reads this, please close down my account.
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bloodline wrote:
I fail to see what you are frustrated about... You are the one who stated that an A1200 with a dialup modem and a CPU slower than my mobile phone would sell millions... That sort of thing is strange thinking!
Yeah, but he also said 100 "MHZ" and teenagers today have never heard of such a thing. They only know about "GHZ" cpus. So maybe if they saw MHZ they would think that must be "WAY FASTER DUDE!!!" and Athiest can trick them into buying MILLIONS!!!
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bloodline wrote:
hbarcellos wrote:
Sorry to interrupt this high level and philosophical discussion, but, I was away for a while, doing some work for another vintage platform, but what is Anubis?
A Linux based OS that runs on regular X86's, have binary 68k compatibility by using UAE engine, Amiga style windows, intuition libraries and yet capable of running modern firefox, open office and etc... on my main PC???
There's someone fighting against it?? I want it!!!
The most sensible thing said in this thread :-)
Thanks. But... I'm still trying to find something about Anubis other than a jackal-headed god.
Anyone can PLZ point me to a web-site or forum post explaining more details about the project??
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hbarcellos wrote:
bloodline wrote:
hbarcellos wrote:
Sorry to interrupt this high level and philosophical discussion, but, I was away for a while, doing some work for another vintage platform, but what is Anubis?
A Linux based OS that runs on regular X86's, have binary 68k compatibility by using UAE engine, Amiga style windows, intuition libraries and yet capable of running modern firefox, open office and etc... on my main PC???
There's someone fighting against it?? I want it!!!
The most sensible thing said in this thread :-)
Thanks. But... I'm still trying to find something about Anubis other than a jackal-headed god.
Anyone can PLZ point me to a web-site or forum post explaining more details about the project??
You'll need to be patient :-) the details are still being worked out, but I assure you there will be plenty of info in the not to distant future!
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Atheist wrote:
bloodline wrote:
I fail to see what you are frustrated about... You are the one who stated that an A1200 with a dialup modem and a CPU slower than my mobile phone would sell millions... That sort of thing is strange thinking!
bloodline, what was I thinking? You've convinced me, Amiga 1200s are useless.
To the first moderator that reads this, please close down my account.
While I do feel guilty for scaring Atheist with logic and reason... do I win a prize for getting rid of him?
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bloodline wrote:
Atheist wrote:
bloodline wrote:
I fail to see what you are frustrated about... You are the one who stated that an A1200 with a dialup modem and a CPU slower than my mobile phone would sell millions... That sort of thing is strange thinking!
bloodline, what was I thinking? You've convinced me, Amiga 1200s are useless.
To the first moderator that reads this, please close down my account.
While I do feel guilty for scaring Atheist with logic and reason... do I win a prize for getting rid of him?
Absolutely!
This first pint is from me:
:pint:
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To anyone who thinks there will be "millions" of Amiga users...
I want what you're smoking!
(http://www.thisboardrocks.com/forum/images/smilies/bong_hit.gif)
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Atheist wrote:
Java is NOT easy!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Unless they've rewritten the syntax from scratch!)
It's fine if you're not completely thick.
So I see why you might have a problem.
Bloodline - didn't know you were involved in this Anubis stuff. Is there a mailing list for updates? It sounds rather exciting.
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niklasni1 wrote:
Atheist wrote:
Java is NOT easy!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Unless they've rewritten the syntax from scratch!)
It's fine if you're not completely thick.
So I see why you might have a problem.
:lol:
Bloodline - didn't know you were involved in this Anubis stuff. Is there a mailing list for updates? It sounds rather exciting.
Wander over to sourceforge and look for the "ARIX" project... from there you can sign up to the Dev list.
At the moment we are really waiting on the first proposals from Hogne and Michal... but already we are debating the various component designs, and how best to ensure an Amiga familiar experience.
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I are a lurker on ewer lists.
:madashell:
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niklasni1 wrote:
I are a lurker on ewer lists.
:madashell:
hahaha
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Atheist wrote:
Java is NOT easy!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Unless they've rewritten the syntax from scratch!)
It's fine if you're not completely thick.
He is...
EVERY programming langue that doesn't have 100% similar syntax as AmosPro is too hard (for him).
f.ex. if you have to write:
printf("Hello!\n");
("problematic" parts highlighted)
instead of:
print"Hello!"
that won't do.
Luckily, it's only him.
So I see why you might have a problem.
I can't see either, but I have just learned to accept it.
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Atheist wrote:
Java is NOT easy!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Unless they've rewritten the syntax from scratch!)
A language is not easy when it has a lot of exceptions in it's design, and require a lot of workarounds. Which isn't the case with Java.
Some libraries in Java are, however, a pain in the *rse I have to admit.
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
bloodline wrote:
Atheist wrote:
bloodline wrote:
I fail to see what you are frustrated about... You are the one who stated that an A1200 with a dialup modem and a CPU slower than my mobile phone would sell millions... That sort of thing is strange thinking!
bloodline, what was I thinking? You've convinced me, Amiga 1200s are useless.
To the first moderator that reads this, please close down my account.
While I do feel guilty for scaring Atheist with logic and reason... do I win a prize for getting rid of him?
Absolutely!
This first pint is from me:
:pint:
And a second from me sir!
Getting back to your point, and the partial rebuttal regarding inputting. The alternative to an iPhone is an EeePC with a 3G dongle.
And they are very robust into the bargain (I've dropped mine from table height a number of times and the thing just keeps on working...
Am told that it is also possible to run OSX on one of these things... Though tbh I wouldn't want to try.
But right now I have my eye on one of these (http://www.gdium.com/description/) as a replacement for my Eee...
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Welcome Anubi OS !
I think this is a wonderful idea (hoping AROS will advance anyway...). Congratulations to all the Devs involved.
Hoping the Amiga Spirit will be strongly in there and we can see something more soon... maybe in two more weeks ? :-)
I will check out the news...
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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
A language is not easy when it has a lot of exceptions in it's design, and require a lot of workarounds. Which isn't the case with Java.
Some libraries in Java are, however, a pain in the *rse I have to admit.
There are plenty of reasons to dislike Java (I'm not particularly keen on it, TBH), but knowing our Atheist's level of technical knowledge (which one might say gives a whole new meaning to the word 'grassroots'..) I can't really take his statement seriously.
If he was an accomplished LISP/Scheme-er, or MLer, or similar, who complained that Java was not easy to write 'correct' software in, he might have a point.
If he was fluent in FORTH, or a similar reductionist language, he might be able to make the claim that Java isn't easy to implement a compiler for.
If he was knowledgable about assembly language or finely tuned C code, he might point out that Java is not easy to write efficient software in.
He's neither of those, obviously.
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;-) Gotta jump in on the cell phone arguement; I am surfing Amiga.org via my cell phone on the way home from work this morning, and posting this now via cell phone.
I can send e-mail, download files, and so on. Ironically, I even have an Amiga emulator installed, MyUAE.
Today's cell phone hardware has left classic Amiga hardware in the dust of ages past, and it's a shame. What I really want is to see my cell phone available in an AmigaOS version, instead of just Windows® Mobile and Palm® Versions.
Bill McEwen mentioned a while back that Amiga, Inc. had missed a deal that would have put AmigaOS on a device that "would sell in greater numbers than the iPhone," if I recall his wording correctly. Meanwhile, Palm has released two newer versions of my Tréo: the Tréo 800 and the Tréo Pro. Both are availble only in Windows versions because they feature both bluetooth and Wi-Fi, and an inherit limitation of Palm OS is that it cannot manage three radios at once. Soooo, we must wait until a new version of Palm OS is created from scratch while retaining existing Palm API's.
:-? Could this have been the deal that Amiga missed?
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Bill had just returned from Columbia that day I think. Nobody turns down a deal that has numbers bigger than iPod over something as small as the dispute between Hyperion and Amiga.
Here's what I think happened. CECT was out looking for an OS for their iPhone clones and approached many companies, Amiga Inc included. Amiga Inc sat on it and ATI’s NUCLEUS+ for RTOS was chosen. Accelerated Technology (a division of Mentor Graphics) didn't become rich and neither would have Amiga Inc...
(http://www.thisboardrocks.com/forum/images/smilies/SmokinBanana.gif)(http://www.thisboardrocks.com/forum/images/smilies/smoke2.gif)(http://www.thisboardrocks.com/forum/images/smilies/bong_hit.gif)
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:-( A sensible company isn't going to partner with another in a big way when ownership of the other's assets is contested.
Besides, Amiga, Inc. cannot work with source code that they do not physically posses. So, until the dispute is settled, A, inc. cannot produce anything you or I could purchase. That's an awkward situation for any company to be in.
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My point is there was a settling point, it involved some cash and some concession on AmigaDos ownership on Amiga Inc.'s part. Both concessions were small potatoes if Bill's letter is correct. We've all known Hyperion's terms for years. Agreeing to those terms would have, if Bill is correct, brought AmigaDos to millions of iPhone/iPod clones. It's not a hard business decision, 100% of nothing versus 95% of millions...
But that's why I think it was CECT, the customer was looking for an OS on the cheap, it would have been in hundreds of thousands of devices like the 168, i9 etc, but the return would have been very small...
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My point is there was a settling point, it involved some cash and some concession on AmigaDos ownership on Amiga Inc.'s part. Both concessions were small potatoes if Bill's letter is correct. We've all known Hyperion's terms for years. Agreeing to those terms would have, if Bill is correct, brought AmigaDos to millions of iPhone/iPod clones. It's not a hard business decision, 100% of nothing versus 95% of millions...
But that's why I think it was CECT, the customer was looking for an OS on the cheap, it would have been in hundreds of thousands of devices like the 168, i9 etc, but the return would have been very small...
Problems is for AI, it (content delivery/display system) can (and will be) replaced by Open Source. Even M$ is starting initial talks about using open source beyond the next IE series. It's all about content that will make the $.
Dammy
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@the_leander,
That Gdium sub-notebook looks sweet!
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Exactly, even if they settled with Hyperion on Hyperion's terms they could not have converted OS4 to run on the CECT phones. My guess is that CECT remebered the Amiga Inc. name and didn't realise that they weren't actually talking to the company that produced the Amiga computer (or anything really except a rebranded Tao Intent).
Now if CECT want to use the Amiga brand like Apple users the it's brand on mobile phones then the deal would have been interesting. Am "Amiga iPhone" to compete with the "Apple iPhone."
We'll never really know the truth, whether they we close, whether Hyperion could have delivered in Amiga's name. Just another puff of smoke from the Master Puffer, Bill....
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It's the only one I've tried but the Acer Apsire One is nice to use and seems quite hackable. Set one up with 3 mobile broadband for the wife's mate.
180quid from comet
http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/product/484237/ACER-AOA110-AW
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I was warned, Anubis ate my chickens last night....