Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: fatboy on November 08, 2008, 10:39:06 AM
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Hi!,
a friend of mine has recently seen (and reported) this guy link (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ALFRED-CHICKEN-AMIGA-CD32-CD-ROM-NEW_W0QQitemZ290273001683QQihZ019QQcategoryZ98929QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262)
for selling pirated games....yet he is still doing it?
Most of the stuff is probably 'drop shipping' but he is adding 'dodgy' games in his vast stock.
Ebay doing it's job...I think not!
These are clearly copies DO NOT BUY!
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If my memory is correct, from the item location given, Swindon, Wilts. This guy has been selling pirated copies for years, with nothing done about it.
clint
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I thought ebay was clamping down on this sort of thing?
Perhaps they think the Amiga is too old to worry about!
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The listing has been removed so eBay must have done something about it!
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jimbo100 wrote:
The listing has been removed so eBay must have done something about it!
Just a 100's more to go then?....he has 1000+ listed items. many probably are legit? many probably aren't???
:getmad:
no-one should profit from other peoples hard work...even if there is a demand for such 'dodgy' stuff!
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if i recall correctly, i remember seeing him selling ancient software, which his customers probably found difficult to find. So what's the problem?
Fatboy, do you feel "righteous" and proud grassing him up to authority? You've probably prevented many people from enjoying their Amigas.
Congratulations, I hope eBay give you a pat on the head and a goldstar for your services and undying fanaticism. Nothing the Amiga community needs more than people like you, fighting the lost cause and helping the idiotic law "clamp down" on the distribution of 20+ year old software which even the original software developers couldn't give a toss about.
:roll:
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Nothing the Amiga community needs more than people like you, fighting the lost cause and helping the idiotic law "clamp down" on the distribution of 20+ year old software which even the original software developers couldn't give a toss about.
:roll:
I have to agree. Everyone does something dodgy at some point in their lives. How would you like to be treated in those instances? Since we are on the topic, why not crusade against downloaded videos and MP3s which the creators DO give a toss about.
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I've got nothing against a little piracy, but trying to make money selling illegal copies of software is just plain cheesy, and clearly against eBay's rules.
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tone007 wrote:
I've got nothing against a little piracy, but trying to make money selling illegal copies of software is just plain cheesy, and clearly against eBay's rules.
Fair point i suppose. But i guess if you need to police what everyone else is doing, you must be doing something dodgy yourself. I don't condone piracy, but when the software is getting harder to find and the authors are past the fact that the Amiga is ageing technology, picking on the odd pirate isn't going to help. There are greater "causes" that could be pursued if you are so vehemently against casual copying. How much did the guy make from Alfred Chicken? Sounds a bit ludicrous to worry about to me. Look at the payouts executive directors get for screwing over companies. There's your cause if you're bored or a tad bit too self righteous.
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You guys are the first to complain about what 'killed' the Amiga in the mainstream (apart from Commodore themselves), and piracy was a factor as to why many software companies
stopped supporting the Amiga.
You all crave 'new' software, but new developers are reluctant to spend hours of there time knowing full well someone will soon be pirating their wares.
OK the guy is selling stuff that is as good as dead (and can be obtained freely....pretty much anywhere on the net)
However he IS selling in such a way as to imply that it is original!
Surly NO-ONE can support what he is doing????
And trust me, I am no do-gooder, just someone who was asked by a non-member to highlight this issue!
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[/quote]
I have to agree. Everyone does something dodgy at some point in their lives. How would you like to be treated in those instances? Since we are on the topic, why not crusade against downloaded videos and MP3s which the creators DO give a toss about.[/quote]
I assumed that this was an Amiga forum, about Amiga things?.....the principle is the same for any copyright issue.
I personally don't download 'poor' quality DVD rips or Virus infested MP3's.....but no-one offering these 'downloads' are making out it's something it's not!
I thought Back2Roots where offering legal downloads of 100's of classic Amiga games??? why does anyone NEED to buy a pirated copy of a multitude of Amiga games just to line someone's pocket, who'll gladly take your money and run?
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fatboy wrote:
You guys are the first to complain about what 'killed' the Amiga in the mainstream (apart from Commodore themselves), and piracy was a factor as to why many software companies
stopped supporting the Amiga.
Piracy was what helped solidify and build the Microsoft empire. I know this for a fact as i used to work for them. (I hope that the Amigans don't hold it against me. I'm still an Amiga fan in every sense of the word :) Piracy acted as the biggest commercial that MS ever had and actually worked out cheaper per unit sold in some respects than TV and radio! It has only been lately that they have cracked down (circa XP SP2 I believe). Microsoft's mantra / mission was to have their software on every table of every resident in the world. It was an aspirational target that was built on the piracy that helped their brand get around. Is it still wrong? Probably. Are they earning enough to pay the bills, definitely. Have you ever copied a song from the radio or used a VCR to tape something off the TV? How about reading a magazine at the newsagent without buying it? If so, you are just as guilty. I find it laughable that you try to make a parallel to piracy rather than the poor marketing of Commodore which is renowned for the failure of the Amiga.
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@ Amintony
Simply highlighted that piracy was a FACTOR not the overall cause of the demise of the Amiga brand?
I certainly don't care deep enough to get involved with some 'heated' debate......I'm off to play on my A1200! :-)
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fatboy wrote:
@ Amintony
Simply highlighted that piracy was a FACTOR not the overall cause of the demise of the Amiga brand?
I certainly don't care deep enough to get involved with some 'heated' debate......I'm off to play on my A1200! :-)
Probably a good idea. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but no-one has the right to say theirs is necessarily right.
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Amithony wrote:
Probably a good idea. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but no-one has the right to say theirs is necessarily right.
Really?
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
Amithony wrote:
Probably a good idea. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but no-one has the right to say theirs is necessarily right.
Really?
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moto
Yes. Really.
Except we ALL know that the Amiga is the best system that was ever made, period. :)
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@Amithony
So I have the right to say what my opinion is but I don't have the right to say that I think it is the correct thing to believe? How ridiculous...
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moto
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OK back again!
Just had 10 mins blasting on Banshee on my Amiga Technologies A1200 on my NEWish 37" Panasonic Flat Screen TV...by coincidence I got a call from my brother-in-law who was just setting up an Amiga I gave him last year, for his 8 year son!
That say's it ALL for me?
Here I am with a classic piece of 90's computer technology playing an old Amiga game on my BIG screen TV. My nephew is at his dads house and about to do the same on a machine twice as old has him...and I know he loves it!!!!!
What a great machine!!!...timeless....and NOT worth getting into heated debates over....just enjoy ;-)
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motor: he's saying that you are free to say that your opinion is "right", and you can make a logically true arguement to back-up your opinion. but you can never PROVE that your opinion is necessarily right. Opinions are subjective. Thankfully, this world is still full of people that have their own opinions and as long as your argument is sound than it is right...for you.
the idea of one absolute truth is a false idea dreamt up by lawyers, because "proving" absolute truth makes them VERY rich. In most situations people should just learn to live with other people's opinions and, as fatboy just said, just enjoy Amigaaaaaaaa!! :crazy:
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arkanoid wrote:
motor: he's saying that you are free to say that your opinion is "right", and you can make a logically true arguement to back-up your opinion. but you can never PROVE that your opinion is necessarily right.
I agree with you, but that's not actually what he said.
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moto
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well, i'm not sure. but i think that is what he might have been hinting at. :-)
but anyways, time to install Opus Directory!! \o/
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arkanoid wrote:
motor: he's saying that you are free to say that your opinion is "right", and you can make a logically true arguement to back-up your opinion. but you can never PROVE that your opinion is necessarily right. Opinions are subjective. Thankfully, this world is still full of people that have their own opinions and as long as your argument is sound than it is right...for you.
the idea of one absolute truth is a false idea dreamt up by lawyers, because "proving" absolute truth makes them VERY rich. In most situations people should just learn to live with other people's opinions and, as fatboy just said, just enjoy Amigaaaaaaaa!! :crazy:
Just because an opinion is subjective doesn't mean that it can't be right, or wrong.
It is my opinion that 1 + 1 = 2.
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yep, 1+1=2 is your opinion and it happens to be an objective opinion that is provable and "correct". Because if you were an architect and suddenly decided that 1+1=3, you would soon be proven "wrong" when your buildings collapsed and fall to the ground.
Try proving that copying 20+ year old software is wrong, or that I do not see the colour red as others see blue and blue as red. Those are subjective opinions and unproveable.
You could try using "the law" to prove you are correct, but then the law is nothing but a social construct that changes over time to suit hypocrits in power. For example, not to long ago it was "wrong" in the law's eyes to be homosexual.
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arkanoid wrote:
Try proving that copying 20+ year old software is wrong, or that I do not see the colour red as others see blue and blue as red. Those are subjective opinions and unproveable.
I don't think the objection is to copying 20 year old software. I think the objection is to selling copies of 20 year old software for profit.
You could try using "the law" to prove you are correct, but then the law is nothing but a social construct that changes over time to suit hypocrits in power. For example, not to long ago it was "wrong" in the law's eyes to be homosexual.
How do you determine what is right or wrong, exactly?
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if i recall correctly, i remember seeing him selling ancient software, which his customers probably found difficult to find. So what's the problem?
old and hard to find does not equate to no problem.
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No, it is not your "opinion" that 1 + 1 = 2. 1 + 1 = 2 is a statement of fact. That statement of fact may be right or wrong, but it is a statement of fact none the less.
Sorry to split hairs, but the whole opinion/fact things is a pet peeve of mine. It is common for people to think that by saying "It's my opinion", they get to say that untrue statements of fact are just as valid as true statements of fact.
An opinion is a subjective statement who's true answer can change based on who is making the statement.
A fact is an objective statement who's true answer is always the same no matter who is making the statement.
Either one can be true, and either one can be false, but that does NOT mean that false statements of fact are opinions.
So, the statement that piracy was a significant factor in the downfall of the Amiga" is a statement of fact, and therefor is either true or false. Opinion does not come into it. Now, it is perfectly reasonable to state that there is not enough information to determine whether it is true or false, and thus we have to make guesses. But, it is definitely a statement of fact.
Now, "Amiga is the best computer ever made." is a statement of opinion. This could also be wrong if you made the statement, but actually thought the Atari was better. It is just unusual for a statement of opinion to be wrong because the person making it, generally defines the true answer.
And just to make things funky, it is also possible to make a statement of fact ABOUT your opinion. e.g. "It is my opinion that the Amiga was an amazing computer!" That is a statement of fact. Why? Because it is either true or false that that is my opinion.
Sorry about the rant. As I said, the definitions of opinion and fact are pet peeves of mine. Carry on with the debates over the FACT of what effect piracy did or did not have on the fate of the Amiga, as well as the OPINION of whether copying and selling 20+ year old software is right or wrong.
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motorollin wrote:
@Amithony
So I have the right to say what my opinion is but I don't have the right to say that I think it is the correct thing to believe? How ridiculous...
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moto
Touchy subject I see. I can think of many examples of late, can you? Our world has been changed by people trying to force their beliefs on the world. My point was that we had the right to believe what we believe, but not the right to jam it down other peoples throats because we think we are more right than they are. I'm not saying what the ebayer did was right, i was saying stoning him for it isn't right either. But again, that's my opinion.
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piracy was a factor as to why many software companies
stopped supporting the Amiga.
You all crave 'new' software, but new developers are reluctant to spend hours of there time knowing full well someone will soon be pirating their wares.
Err... I think you'll find the most significant reason why developers stopped supporting the Amiga was that the manufacture of actual Amigas stopped...
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Amithony wrote:
Touchy subject I see.
Not at all. I have heard people say many times that you "can't" say that what you think is the right thing to think, when in fact you can say exactly that. You might be wrong and other people might disagree with you, but that doesn't change the fact that you have the right to say it.
Amithony wrote:
I can think of many examples of late, can you? Our world has been changed by people trying to force their beliefs on the world. My point was that we had the right to believe what we believe, but not the right to jam it down other peoples throats because we think we are more right than they are.
Ahh ok, but that's not actually what you said before. For the record I do agree with you here, and I'm not trying to be deliberately obtuse, but I think your original comment that 'you can't say that what you think is right' was a bit vague.
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moto
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Love your work. This is exactly my point. You have the right to that opinion also without anyone flaming you for it. :)
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Amithony wrote:
Love your work.
I can't work out whether that was sarcasm... ;-)
Amithony wrote:
This is exactly my point. You have the right to that opinion also without anyone flaming you for it. :)
And the circle is complete!
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moto
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@moto
No sarcasm was intended. I just felt passionately about the topic of software piracy vs preservation. I just wish that there was a ruling that made software more accessible after say 20 years with the permission of the software authors. I'd hate to think that we'll all be reduced to emulation as the competing systems become more powerful and we slip back into the nether. The person purchasing the software can choose not to at the end of the day.
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@Amithony
I believe that in some countries there is a law which states that if software is no longer available it is permissible to distribute it, even if it is still within copyright. This would probably apply to a lot of Amiga software. However, I don't think that law extends to selling the software for a profit.
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
@Amithony
I believe that in some countries there is a law which states that if software is no longer available it is permissible to distribute it, even if it is still within copyright. This would probably apply to a lot of Amiga software. However, I don't think that law extends to selling the software for a profit.
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moto
This is true. But i think at some point everyone has done something they aren't proud of. Does taking him to the ebay police help anyone? Seems a bit harsh to me, that's all. I think we were talking about Alfred Chicken. A game worth crossing the road for? :-P
Oh well. I guess we can agree to disagree. I would prefer to have a world crawling with casual copiers than to lose the software forever. Maybe that's one for another thread.
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I never disagreed with you on the issue of piracy in general or this particular case. My only comment was regarding what you said about not being able to say that your opinion is the right one... but it seems we are actually on the same page there ;-)
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moto