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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Amithony on November 04, 2008, 10:25:02 AM
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I thought id throw this out there.
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Means I'd be out $700 or so to run a handful of software.
Like the board though, the FPGA is interesting. Wonder if Mini-Mig could be ported to that FPGA, then you'd have something. AGA emulation on the FPGA would be the cats meow!!!!!
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From what I remember its not big enough for the minimig core and softcore 68k, plus there is no way to connect it sufficiently to the rest of the system, so what use would it be
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Crom00 wrote:
Means I'd be out $700 or so to run a handful of software.
..and for a software developer (like me) that's gold :-)
That's one of the reasons I ordered mine; to populate this niche platform with more software.
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One of the reasons that I've not used Amiga for a long time is that my A4000 68k has become too slow for handling big amount of data. Also I would like to have a little more modern system with better screen resolution and 16bit sound.
There is no sense in buying a PPC accelerator for a 15 year old computer.
In the meanwhile I've tried Windows, OSX and Linux, they are slow and always on my way. AmigaOS is fast, small and simple.
And I remember when computing was fun. ;-)
Waiting for my SAM440ep... :-D
(so far I got: A500*2, A600HD, A2000, A4000, AMD64x2 and a lot of older x86 HW)
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Well, I am still a tad annoyed,as I am still awaiting my system to arrive, while I see others on here have already retrieved thiers.
Apart from that, its going to be good. A colleague with his A1 and me with sam440ep are planning to try to get some games out over time. We will see if anything good develops from it.
Also looking forward to using it as my everyday home system, itll be a relief, especially since my day career involves using crapy windows, and takes about 10 minutes to start up, weather other people are there or not.
then theres the constant annoyance of how slow it is, and thats when it is running on massive cpu core, etc, WTF. Amiga never had that problem, even back in the day when one could compare it to apple and windows systems, it was clearly better OS.
As for linux, well, tried it also, but, I just want my amiga.
Its like cars really isnt it, some people think anything GM is crap, others think ford is crap, then there are those that dont even bother getting either, and go for a porsche straight away.
hahahaha, dont believe it, I think I just compared a particular OS to a porsche, and that the there others are like GM crap, ha, and to think I thought I wasnt completely and Morally Insane. :-o
hehe, ok, enough said, heaps of plans i got, lets hope it all works out, Ive been reading good and bad with the os4.1 for sam users, but more good than bad, I hope Ill be one of the people in the Good section with my sam440ep running 4.1
Cheers, and I hope more hardare is on the way next year, perhaps that 2.5 Ghz dream system Someone was showing off on another amiga forum. :lol:
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SAM 440 - What would owning one mean to you?
It would mean that I would have been a lot poorer than I am by owning a $99 Efika (http://www.directron.com/efika.html) with MorphOS 2.1 (http://www.morphos-team.net), and not in any way happier.
Look, the SAM is simply overly complex, overspecced (why on earth is the FPGA there for starters), yet vastly underpowered for its price. If you are going to charge that kind of money you must go *way beyond* the SAM/Efika performance. The Efika gets away with its low performance (and specs) thanks to its low cost, the SAM doesn't.
Acube should have used a CPU with a higher level of integration, hence less external controllers, less layers, and cut away things like FPGA that serves no natural purpose. Maybe they could have reduced the price to about two-three times the Efika price tag, which could really have made a difference. Now they have a board that is "stuck in the middle", it's not a high performer (which could justify its high price) and it's not a low cost (which could justify its low performance).
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@Amithony
As other people have already said its just about having some fun I already have a desktop PC and a laptop, so I don't need it to be a replacement for my PCs.
As my day job involves administrating linux and windows servers and supporting windows desktops and laptops it takes a lot of the fun out of using them at home. In recent years I have also just about stopped buying and playing new PC games so that frees up the time and money I used to spend on them.
So I am looking for something else to do during the dark winter nights and wet Scottish weekends when I don't feel like reading or watching DVDs/TV or going out with friends.
Is it an expensive toy? Yes but is it any more expensive than buying a PS3 or other games console after you figure in buying games for it as well? maybe not.
As such I ordered a SAM and a copy of OS4.1 from Amigakit.
The question you have to ask yourself while purchasing any Amiga stuff or anything else is what else could I purchase with the money and do I need it more, or would it give me more enjoyment that what I am thinking about spending the money on. What is a worthwhile purchase for me may not be such a worthwhile purchase to someone else with different needs and tastes.
As such I can see were some people are coming from with the SAM is over priced and under powered argument but to me the price is OK and its faster than my old BlizzardPPC equipped A1200 tower that so the speed will do as well.
So my answer to what a SAM means to me is having fun with a computer doing other thinks than playing games for a change, but I don't ever expect the SAM I have ordered to replace my other computers for doing work, just to be a fun diversion for a few hours now and again, while I play with ImageFX4, photogenic and what ever new OS4 software I find fun when I get it.
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@takemehomegrandma
Sadly the Efika is only available at its full retail price in the UK and shipping is about as much again to the UK as the $100 purchase price then we have to pay VAT of 17.5% on top of the purchase and shipping them it uses a non standard form factor so a case is also expensive for people that don't want to make their own.
I looked at purchasing one and a copy of morphos when morphos 2.0 was released but it was going to workout almost as expensive as the SAM and OS4 is now but it just dose not have the ram required to run linux well so I could not really use it under linux as a replacement for my existing epia-m Linux box.
But If I lived in the USA instead of the UK I would have been inclined to have purchased the Efika and MorphOS2 as I am sure it would have the same fun factor I am looking for with the SAM and OS4.
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Dwyloc wrote:
I looked at purchasing one and a copy of morphos when morphos 2.0 was released but it was going to workout almost as expensive as the SAM and OS4 is now
That my friend, is very hard to believe! The Efika motherboard is very small and very light weight, and shipment from Directron.com to Europe can't possibly be an issue. Maybe if you fly over to the states to pick it up yourself it will, but... ;-)
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Means I would be sleeping in the garage when my wife learned I'd blown that much money on another "junk" computer....
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w190/LisaJaneS/36_1_721.gif)
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(why on earth is the FPGA there for starters)
For industrial customers. If they can find enough industrial customers then they might be able lower the cost. Besides that, it could prove to be a good toy for those who know how to use it.
Maybe they could have reduced the price to about two-three times the Efika price tag, which could really have made a difference. Now they have a board that is "stuck in the middle", it's not a high performer (which could justify its high price) and it's not a low cost (which could justify its low performance).
If they could have, they probably would have. In fact, the SAM 440 flex is probably going to be cheaper.
Hans
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
Dwyloc wrote:
I looked at purchasing one and a copy of morphos when morphos 2.0 was released but it was going to workout almost as expensive as the SAM and OS4 is now
That my friend, is very hard to believe!
Believe it. I looked in to it, and the shipping costs, insurance, import tax and VAT bring the cost up to almost exactly to the same cost as buying it within the the UK (within just a few pounds).
takemehomegrandma wrote:
The Efika motherboard is very small and very light weight, and shipment from Directron.com to Europe can't possibly be an issue.
It might not be if they bothered to reply to requests for shipping quotes...
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moto
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It would mean selling my PowerTower to recoup the costs and also mean I'd have a much more useable Amiga in terms of hardware! Would be quite a jump from an 030 with only 2meg graphics and 32meg fast!
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@HopperJF
I jumped from an A1200 with an 030 @40 MHz and 32 MB RAM to an A1-XE G4 @800 MHz. Trust me, being able to watch movies, listen to mp3s, and use truecolour screens without slowdown on an Amiga is sooo easy to get used to. The A1200 did feel fast and responsive, but the modern Amiga is so much better.
Hans
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Hans_ wrote:
(why on earth is the FPGA there for starters)
For industrial customers.
Ah, those "industrial customers" again. I wonder who they are...? Are there any at all? I somehow doubt it in this case. There are countless of boards and PCI cards with FPGA's out there, each with various customizations for various needs. The Sam clearly has desktop ambitions (a standard desktop form factor, all controllers and connectivity options you would expect from a desktop motherboard (unfortunately they all (including GFX) sits on the same PCI bus)), and it has a premium desktop price tag, but a CPU performance that doesn't fit that picture at all.
A product *must* be a response to some kind of *market demand*, and the specifications *must* be set from that. I have a strong feeling that Acube started off at the wrong end by simply designing a set of specifications they themselves thought would be "cool", and because of that missing the "small detail" of market demand. Which simply isn't there.
There are no "industrial customers", that's nothing more than a reflex response that's being thrown around that doesn't mean anything. They will perhaps sell some 50-150 boards to OS4 nerds ready to pay premium price simply because it's the only way of running OS4, and because it has a similar component ("The Incredible FPGA") that someone made a MiniMig of and Jens Schönfeld made something else of (ie some kind of geek cool factor). And that's not too bad actually. But I can't see who else on earth would buy it?
If they can find enough industrial customers then they might be able lower the cost.
Well, if you start buying components by tens of thousands, you can of course start bargaining on the prices. However, economy of scale can only reach that far, and a high volume does not make the board less complex, use less components, less layers, etc. And it will never come close to quantities that matters anyway...
Besides that, it could prove to be a good toy for those who know how to use it.
A toy? Could?
I'm sorry, but if there is no market need, if there is no purpose, if no-one (including Acube) had a clear view of what to do with it, then it shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Your pot belly may be cute and sexy *in your own* eyes, but in most cases it's only an extra burden that serves no purpose, and if it only scares the chicks away from you because there are options out there that doesn't suffer from this "extra weight", then you would be much better off without it.
If they could have, they probably would have. In fact, the SAM 440 flex is probably going to be cheaper.
Yes probably.
But I can't understand why they persist in using the 440 in a *desktop design*? It's misplaced in that context! I could understand their CPU of choice if it had been a more customized device for a special purpose, some kind of hand held thing, an embedded product of some kind. But even then it wouldn't compete with the 5121e (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC5121e) in any aspect, so...
For a desktop design, I wish they would consider making a SAM 8640 (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC8640) (single core) instead, using an AMD SB750 southbridge. It would be a quite nice machine:
- One (or two) e600 core with altivec running at 1.25GHz
- PCI Express x16 slot for graphic cards (8 lanes connected)
- 4 Gigabit Ethernet connectors
- Up to 6 SATA 3.0 Gbit/s hard disk drives, with RAID 0, 1, 5, 0+1 support
- eSATA
- 1 IDE channel for HyperFlash module
- Up to 14 USB ports (12 USB 2.0 and 2 USB 1.1)
- HD Audio
- Infrared receiver/transmitter port compatible with IrDA standards
- Super I/O (not really needed with that many USB's?)
Make it as a Micro-ATX motherboard. A perfect little two-chip developer desktop! :-)
With the dual core version, you could even have two operating systems running at the same time! :-)
Or why not a SAM 8610 (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC8610), with the same south bridge and form factor as above?
Speaking of that, have you seen this one?
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2179/2952481050_c77effb1be.jpg)
It's the "Redtail" board (http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11469#11469) from some Japanese developer. Look at it, it's about the size of an Efika, and the 8610 is probably *the fastest* 32-bit PPC CPU ever made.
I'd *happily* pay the SAM's price for that one! ;-)
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Personally I'm very happy to see new 0S4 capable HW available....it's something everyone's wanted after all :-P
Yes it's not perfect (PCI Express and 4GB ram support would have been perfect), it is expensive....but it makes a whole lot more sense to me than adding a PPC card to a 1200.
If I had the spare cash, I'd certainly look into getting one.
What will be interesting is what happens after the legal 'stuff' has finished.
:-D
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/
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that redtail board looks awesome.
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Amithony wrote:
I thought id throw this out there.
It would mean just another ppc amiga at home, which wouldn't be bad thing, but I have two ppc Amigas already (Pegasos & Efika), that's enough for now. Next maschine is probably Mac Mini (MorphOS powered). The Sam is skipped by me - no benefit: too expensive, no advance over the Pegasos, prefer MorphOS over OS 4.x for many reasons.
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SAM 440 - What would owning one mean to you?
It would mean I would be spending 700$ to heckle Atheist every time he pops in here, claiming that the Amiga will make a come back and how "stupid" we are for not seeing it. If I had one, he'd have no rebuttal since I'd be in the "red" camp, so I could heckle him to my heart's content, only it's never going to happen.
On second thought.....this isn't a bad idea.
*snort*
:-P
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
Ah, those "industrial customers" again. I wonder who they are...? Are there any at all? ...
Your post is filled with assertions based on all sorts of assumptions. No industrial customers? How the heck would you know? Are you privy to ACube's business dealings? Their business plan? No, you're not. So you really don't know.
... They will perhaps sell some 50-150 boards to OS4 nerds ready to pay premium price simply because it's the only way of running OS4, and because it has a similar component ("The Incredible FPGA") that someone made a MiniMig of and Jens Schönfeld made something else of (ie some kind of geek cool factor). ...
And now you're just being directly insulting and demeaning to the whole OS4 community. So typical.
Besides that, it could prove to be a good toy for those who know how to use it.
A toy? Could?
I'm sorry, but if there is no market need, if there is no purpose, if no-one (including Acube) had a clear view of what to do with it, then it shouldn't have been there in the first place.
What I mean, is that it's up to the creativity of developers. Once again, you are assuming that they spent all that time and money for just a few hundred sales to Amiga enthusiasts.
But I can't understand why they persist in using the 440 in a *desktop design*? It's misplaced in that context!
Firstly, you're the one asserting that it's a desktop design. A desktop board with the possibility of having a Mini-PCI slot? Sounds like they have something else planned to me. Secondly, it would have been the best choice for whatever their requirements were, at the time when they started.
I could understand their CPU of choice if it had been a more customized device for a special purpose, some kind of hand held thing, an embedded product of some kind. But even then it wouldn't compete with the 5121e (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC5121e) in any aspect, so...
Have you ever designed a motherboard? If you're already grumbling about the price of the SAM 440ep, then what exactly would you expect if a more expensive, more complex, chip were used? Also, if what I have read is correct, the CPUs that you suggest that they should use were introduced in 2007, after ACube started working on the SAM motherboard.
Hans
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
Dwyloc wrote:
I looked at purchasing one and a copy of morphos when morphos 2.0 was released but it was going to workout almost as expensive as the SAM and OS4 is now
That my friend, is very hard to believe! The Efika motherboard is very small and very light weight, and shipment from Directron.com to Europe can't possibly be an issue. Maybe if you fly over to the states to pick it up yourself it will, but... ;-)
Directron.com doesn't ship overseas
as for the efika...it doesn't play or burn to dvd!!, or cd's for that matter!! sam is also more powerful!
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zyphoid wrote:
Directron.com doesn't ship overseas
Yeah, but I do. :-P I've even offered to.
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zyphoid wrote:
Directron.com doesn't ship overseas
That's not what I heard, I have read posts from several people in Europe who ordered from them. However, you can't do it through the webshop. You will have to mail them directly and agree on shipping and payment options.
as for the efika...it doesn't play or burn to dvd!!, or cd's for that matter!!
Indeed it's correct that the Efika has lower specs than the Sam and it's not suitable for "desktop use" for everyone, no-one has ever claimed different.
The main feature of the Efika is its low price. And that's not a bad feature! Some people are obviously happy to live with the limited specs and none existent expansion options beyond what comes through USB1.1 as long as they don't have to take a second mortage on the house just to try out MorphOS 2.1. But of course it doesn't suit everyone.
sam is also more powerful!
Marginally more powerful perhaps (I haven't seen any real life comparisons), but it still doesn't qualify to be called *powerful*. The 440 and the 5200B is in the same class of CPU's...
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Hey, Can I run Amiga OS 4 on that U$ 99 Efika? Is it compatible with any AGP Video card, like a Radeon 9600?
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Hans_ wrote:
No industrial customers? How the heck would you know? Are you privy to ACube's business dealings? Their business plan? No, you're not. So you really don't know.
Outside the Amiga community there is this thing called "competition", where a great deal of options are available at very attractive prices from many, many producers. That any "industrial customer" (whatever that is) would choose the Sam in its current shape, form and price over anything (whatever) else that is available from everywhere is highly unlikely.
... They will perhaps sell some 50-150 boards to OS4 nerds ready to pay premium price simply because it's the only way of running OS4, and because it has a similar component ("The Incredible FPGA") that someone made a MiniMig of and Jens Schönfeld made something else of (ie some kind of geek cool factor). ...
And now you're just being directly insulting and demeaning to the whole OS4 community. So typical.
No I'm not. Everyone knows that the Sam is the only option for any new user to get a OS4.1 system, and obviously some (but not that many) are ready to pay the very high price in order to do that. And not a single one has publicly expressed any critical thoughts about the FPGA, despite no-one (not even Acube) has a use for it, and it only sitting there like a cancer bump that has brought nothing to the board but a high price (hence preventing people from getting on board). Rather the opposite, in online discussions you sense some admiration for FPGA's in general and the various and completely unrelated "Amiga in a FPGA" projects in particular.
Besides that, it could prove to be a good toy for those who know how to use it.
A toy? Could?
I'm sorry, but if there is no market need, if there is no purpose, if no-one (including Acube) had a clear view of what to do with it, then it shouldn't have been there in the first place.
What I mean, is that it's up to the creativity of developers.
And what could that be in your opinion, that a "real" controller of the same sort couldn't do better and cheaper? I mean, until anyone figure out what the h-ll the thing could be used for, I still think it shouldn't be there. Specifications must come from a real market demand, you can't do it the other way around. They should have put it on an optional PCI daughter card or whatever.
Once again, you are assuming that they spent all that time and money for just a few hundred sales to Amiga enthusiasts.
Everything Acube is and have done is about Amiga. They (both Acube and Hyperion) has made it no secret that this is "the new Amiga", they use the Frieden's "OS4 firmware", they have been granted the exclusive distribution rights of OS4, 50% of their front web page is a big OS4.1 ad, promotion materials they released has looked identical to the OS4 visual style (colors, gradients, fonts, etc). The Sam is made by Amigans, for Amigans, and that is no secret. Unfortunately, there aren't many left who is prepared to pay that price for that kind of hardware, and I still can't imagine who on earth outside the Amiga community would even take a Sam in consideration, it would drown in the competition. This "industrial customers" was a term that Alan Redhouse used frequently as well when he was pushing the "A1". Maybe this kind of talk works when speaking to your bank for financing (if your banker is ignorant enough), but in reality (the one outside the rose tinted fuzzy Amiga reality) I don't think that neither Alan Redhouse nor Acube has sold many boards to "industrial customers". Amiga nerds willing to pay anything for anything labeled "Amiga" is a completely different matter. No market rules apply, it's a cult monopoly of loyal brand followers.
But I can't understand why they persist in using the 440 in a *desktop design*? It's misplaced in that context!
Firstly, you're the one asserting that it's a desktop design.
But open your eyes and look at it. It's a board made in a desktop standard form factor, having the same standard desktop connectors and expandability options, using the same standard PC controllers that you find in any standard Dell PC. But the Dell PC would be at a fraction of the cost and have ten times the performance.
It's a Desktop Amiga. That's what it is.
I could understand their CPU of choice if it had been a more customized device for a special purpose, some kind of hand held thing, an embedded product of some kind. But even then it wouldn't compete with the 5121e (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC5121e) in any aspect, so...
Have you ever designed a motherboard?
The issue isn't about motherboard designing, it's about business development.
If you're already grumbling about the price of the SAM 440ep, then what exactly would you expect if a more expensive, more complex, chip were used?
In volume, I have heard that the 5200B costs some $10-$15. The 5121e costs about the same but offers so much more. It's an entire multi core computer in one single chip, with about the same (or better) performance as the Sam 440 CPU. It has on board display controller capable of HDTV 720 resolution, on board 3D GPU, a separate 200MHz RISC core for audio acceleration (or whatever you decide to use it for), PCI 2.3, USB2, SATA, PATA, etc, etc.
The Bill of Materials for these 5121e based laptops (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5820&forum=11) is *below $100*, and in addition to the 5121e SoC chip they have a second chip connected to it on the PCI bus for WiFi and Bluetooth, just like LimePC (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5638&forum=2) concepts and the Cherrypal (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5822&forum=11).
This is the power of high integration and low complexity.
Also, if what I have read is correct, the CPUs that you suggest that they should use were introduced in 2007, after ACube started working on the SAM motherboard.
While the 8610 is a new chip, the 8640(D) is merely a performance and price reduced version of the 8641(D) that has been here for a long time, but that isn't the point really. My point is that (as far as I understand) Acube is now working on "a second generation motherboard", still using the same philosophy and still using a 440 family chip. My question was why? The 8610 is probably more expensive than a 440, but I am confident that a motherboard based on this CPU and one or two extra chips (like the Redtail motherboard above) would end up being cheaper in total than a Sam. And even if it won't be cheaper, it would have performance and specifications to justify the price better.
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if i had the cash i'd get one. just to support the people still developing this stuff.
i'm just glad/amazed there is a new version of the OS out there, _with hardware_ .
slamming OS4 at the moment is like slamming PPC stuff in general. there is only stuff for is when people develop for it, and people will only buyit when stuff is developed for it. catch22.
and the only stuff people want (office/games) is more redily available on cheaper platforms. so a very steep uphill stuggle. for a niche product.
so good for them, and fair play for bringing it to market. as it would be much easier to go with the nay-sayers and just give the amiga market the single finger salute as a farewell and disappear into the woodwork to work on more profitable ventures.
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@darksun9210
Yeah, and just to be clear I ensure you that I have only the deepest respect for Acube for their effort (maybe it doesn't look that way in my posts above). We have seen many HW attempts in the past, of which 99% crashed and burned before anything at all could materialize. It takes *a lot* to go all the way like they have done. Criticism isn't nay-saying. I expressed the same views a long time ago when I first learned about the Sam specs (long before anything tangible even existed). It's brave to make PPC desktops for niche markets! I just wish that Acube would re-think and either go for high spec&performance design at a higher price (read: current price), or low spec&performance design at a lower price. It can be done, as I tried to show above.
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So where are we? The LimePC/THTF machines are what we want for the Amiga but what are the chances that Hyperion will do the port?
Those 7 inch screen models are wonderful, imagine an EEEPC style Amiga for US$400/£250/€310!
The vendor lock in was one of the many reasons Amiga's parents failed.
(http://www.rpgfirearms.com.au/CLIP-ART/yinyang.gif)
(http://www.rpgfirearms.com.au/CLIP-ART/BirdFlu.gif)
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darksun9210,
if i had the cash i'd get one. just to support the people still developing this stuff.
So it's a charity.
Would you buy a SAM440 if it didn't have any kind of connection to OS4 at all? If not, then who would you be supporting by buying one now - Acube or Hyperion?
Clearly the only reason people are buying SAM440 now is because it can run OS4. That's kind of at odds though with Acube's intention to market to embedded customers, seeing as how there is no demand for OS4 outside of the hobbyist community. If there was a demand, where is the company who would own OS4? It's been around for years, it seems like if these big time embedded companies out there wanted it one would have bought into it by now.
Yeah, yeah - one is likely to come around any day now, lol
Just wanted to add: nothing against Acube here, they've just chosen a really bad company to partner with for software. Acube produced the MiniMig, which is very good. Acube seems like a real company unlike most of the chuff that the Amiga community gets shafted with, but they have real bills to pay - and OS4 just doesn't pay the bills.
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
Hans_ wrote:
No industrial customers? How the heck would you know? Are you privy to ACube's business dealings? Their business plan? No, you're not. So you really don't know.
Outside the Amiga community there is this thing called "competition", where a great deal of options are available at very attractive prices from many, many producers. That any "industrial customer" (whatever that is) would choose the Sam in its current shape, form and price over anything (whatever) else that is available from everywhere is highly unlikely.
In your opinion. Look, as an engineer, I know about the myriads of different hardware available in different form factors, so don't be so condescending. Past announcements said that they were available to select industrial customers (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=46929); it has space for a zigbee module, which is not used by desktop systems. Just because you don't see anyone buying it for industry doesn't mean that industrial customers see it that way. Do you work in industry? Are you responsible for purchasing computer hardware for machine/process control? I'm guessing that you're not.
... They will perhaps sell some 50-150 boards to OS4 nerds ready to pay premium price simply because it's the only way of running OS4, and because it has a similar component ("The Incredible FPGA") that someone made a MiniMig of and Jens Schönfeld made something else of (ie some kind of geek cool factor). ...
And now you're just being directly insulting and demeaning to the whole OS4 community. So typical.
No I'm not. [/quote]
And I quote: "OS4 nerds". If it were simply about the facts, you wouldn't have used that term with negative connotations.
And what could that be in your opinion, that a "real" controller of the same sort couldn't do better and cheaper? I mean, until anyone figure out what the h-ll the thing could be used for, I still think it shouldn't be there. Specifications must come from a real market demand, you can't do it the other way around. They should have put it on an optional PCI daughter card or whatever.
FPGAs have a lot of uses. I have no idea what the capabilities of the one on the SAM board are, but FPGAs can do tasks that a CPU can do faster and cheaper. There are FPGAs that can perform more calculations per second than a DSP. Moreover, it's useful to perform interfacing to custom hardware (of which industrial systems can have plenty).
But I can't understand why they persist in using the 440 in a *desktop design*? It's misplaced in that context!
Firstly, you're the one asserting that it's a desktop design.
But open your eyes and look at it. It's a board made in a desktop standard form factor, having the same standard desktop connectors and expandability options, using the same standard PC controllers that you find in any standard Dell PC. But the Dell PC would be at a fraction of the cost and have ten times the performance.
It's a Desktop Amiga. That's what it is.[/quote]
A desktop machine does not have a zigbee module, mini-PCI, FPGAs, etc. Open your eyes. Yes it's in a Mini-ITX form factor, but they are, in fact used in industrial settings too (http://ibt.ca/v2/items/cmi203/). There's no point in using Compact-PCI hardware everywhere (BTW, a lot of Compact-PCI hardware makes the SAM 440ep look like a bargain). Likewise, in some situations using a PLC instead of PC hardware makes more sense.
The issue isn't about motherboard designing, it's about business development.
The development costs and limitations of available hardware has to be taken into account in any business plan. That's why no-one can design a motherboard that is just for the Amiga market. Eyetech failed in getting industrial customers because they chose a design with bugs and couldn't get Linux running reliably. Added to that, their's really was a desktop motherboard.
Unless you work in industry and actually buy hardware, you don't know what their requirements/prices actually are. Do you really think that you know more about designing, building and selling computer hardware than the design engineers and business people working in that industry?
Hans
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@takemehomegrandma
if you hate sam and amiga that much why dont you take your crappy eifka and stay on the morphos forums?. we dont need you here to spread your fud. to make it crystal clear once and for all, this is an AMIGA site and not morpohs site!
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hbarcellos wrote:
Hey, Can I run Amiga OS 4 on that U$ 99 Efika? Is it compatible with any AGP Video card, like a Radeon 9600?
Recommendation for the Efika is a Radeon 9250 128MB (you can use either AGP or PCI). Well supported and fast enough for that cpu.
This is the current gfx card support:
With 3d hardware acceleration:
ATI Radeon 7000VE (RV100)
ATI Radeon 7200 (R100)
ATI Radeon 7500 (RV200)
ATI Radeon 8500 LE (R200)
ATI Radeon 8500 (R200)
ATI Radeon 9000 (RV250)
ATI Radeon 9000 Pro (RV250)
ATI Radeon 9100 (R200)
ATI Radeon 9100 LE (R200)
ATI Radeon 9200 SE (RV280)
ATI Radeon 9200 (RV280)
ATI Radeon 9200 Pro (RV280)
ATI Radeon 9250 (RV280) 3DFX Voodoo3 2000 (Avenger)
3DFX Voodoo3 3000 (Avenger)
3DFX Voodoo3 3500 (Avenger)
3DFX Voodoo4 4500 (Napalm)
3DFX Voodoo5 5500 (Napalm) (recognized as a Voodoo4, only one GPU is being used)
Without 3d hardware acceleration:
3D Labs / Texas Instruments Permedia2
3D Labs / Texas Instruments Permedia2v
XGI Volari V3XT (VGA output only) SIS 300
SIS 305
SIS 6326
Recently support for Radeon 9500 and Radeon 9700 was added, but not yet for 3D.
And no, OS4 does not run on it, you may ask Hyperion to do it (the license shouldn't be an issue any more(or has Acube one?)) or just use MorphOS.
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@A1260
Oh boy, aren't you a blast from the past? :roll:
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@ A1260
As usual you show up, make a factual incorrect comment, with the purpose of pi55ing people off.
This site is for AOS classic, AOS4.1, morphos, Winuae, etc etc. If you dont like it, would YOU please go away.
You have never posted anything constructive in your life.
BTW I am not backing up takemehomegrandma I am hust fed up with your inane, pointless, inccorrect, flame baiting posts.
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A1260 wrote:
@takemehomegrandma
if you hate sam and amiga that much why dont you take your crappy eifka and stay on the morphos forums?. we dont need you here to spread your fud. to make it crystal clear once and for all, this is an AMIGA site and not morpohs site!
Heh. This is an AMIGA site, yes..
What is AMIGA these days? Thats getting be a very tough question to answer.. According to Bill McEwen, AMIGA is heading towards being a portable/palm device company. (last I heard.)
I totally agree with TakeMeHomeGrandma and I think his oppinions are of great value here.
Theres really nothing beneficial about the PPC platform these days where desktop computing is concerned, and since they have chosen that as the platform for OS4, you'd do well to buy whatever gets you the best value. If you want to donate your money to support Acube then thats perfectly fine. But some of us (who are interested in the AMIGA in a desktop role) are not willing to pay 6 times what a modern PC motherboard costs for a board that has roughly 1/10th the performance.
Yes it would have been nice if AMIGA inc. had chosen the Intel platform for OS4... But that would have TRULY resigned the future of AMIGA to being a "software" company. Using the PPC platform does give AMIGA somewhat of a "hardware identity"... The real question is whether or not it's worth it to the end user.
If the future you see (or want) for Amiga lies in portable/embedded devices, then none of the above concerns are relavent..
Personally, I'll stick with my 68k/OS3 until I see another desktop machine worth replacing it with, at a decent price. And I'll continue to use my PC (which has excellent performance/price value) for tasks that cant be accomplished on the 68k machine.
NATAMI?
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If it were up to me I would continue developing AOS as a virtual machine for WMware. :-D
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It would mean I could explore OS 4.1 without having to scrounge for classic or Amiga One parts that run the newer Amiga OS.
I'd like to use it to explore OS 4.1 and develop software for the platform.
I've decided to hold off. I'll reconsider next fall if there's still something like this available.
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Metalguy66 wrote:
But some of us (who are interested in the AMIGA in a desktop role) are not willing to pay 6 times what a modern PC motherboard costs for a board that has roughly 1/10th the performance.
The 8610 is a good performer, and you could use it to make a really good desktop class Amiga machine with really good price/performance ratio. Look at this youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BT1299hgI0), what you see is the 8610 running Linux and playing a divx movie at full 1080p. There is an interesting discussion about it here (http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1383&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15).
However, no suitable 8610 based motherboard exists, hence no "Amigoid" OS is running on it yet, but hey, MorphOS is coming for the MacMini G4, which is a well tried, cheap and well spread second hand hardware you could easily buy! Click on the image in this thread (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34069) for details, or look at this mpeg video (http://bigfoot.morphos-team.net/files/morphos-on-mac.mpeg)! And with MorphOS it's a really good performer (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=27346&forum=28&10) too (1080p h.264 video replay, wow!) ;-)
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
Metalguy66 wrote:
But some of us (who are interested in the AMIGA in a desktop role) are not willing to pay 6 times what a modern PC motherboard costs for a board that has roughly 1/10th the performance.
The 8610 is a good performer, and you could use it to make a really good desktop class Amiga machine with really good price/performance ratio. Look at this youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BT1299hgI0), what you see is the 8610 running Linux and playing a divx movie at full 1080p. There is an interesting discussion about it here (http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1383&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15).
However, no suitable 8610 based motherboard exists, hence no "Amigoid" OS is running on it yet, but hey, MorphOS is coming for the MacMini G4, which is a well tried, cheap and well spread second hand hardware you could easily buy! Click on the image in this thread (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34069) for details, or look at this mpeg video (http://bigfoot.morphos-team.net/files/morphos-on-mac.mpeg)! And with MorphOS it's a really good performer (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=27346&forum=28&10) too (1080p h.264 video replay, wow!) ;-)
Dude! :-D
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A1260,
to make it crystal clear once and for all, this is an AMIGA site and not morpohs site!
It's not an OS4 site either. But since OS4 is Amiga-like, as is MorphOS, then discussion about both is topical.
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It's not an OS4 site either. But since OS4 is Amiga-like, as is MorphOS, then discussion about both is topical.
Why do you insist on re-posting the same old subtle digs and crap that's been regurgitated on forums for years?
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What is AMIGA these days? Thats getting be a very tough question to answer..
From a programmers point of view, AROS and MorphOS are Amigas because they both use AmigaOS functions. I call my Sam440ep an Amiga because it runs AmigaOS v4.1.
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skurk wrote:
Crom00 wrote:
Means I'd be out $700 or so to run a handful of software.
..and for a software developer (like me) that's gold :-)
That's one of the reasons I ordered mine; to populate this niche platform with more software.
Here here! I am thinking of doing the same. I just wanted to see if this is just a one off or if the demand is going to be enough to take the Amiga to newer heights. Its all very exciting. Imagine getting the formula right enough to re-spark an Amiga resurgence!
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x56h34 wrote:
If it were up to me I would continue developing AOS as a virtual machine for WMware. :-D
How BRILLIANT! I wonder how hard it would be to do.
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Amithony wrote:
Imagine getting the formula right enough to re-spark an Amiga resurgence!
Jahc likes to call his OS of choice AmigaOS4.1, and so does Hyperion. However, Amiga Inc (the IP owner) doesn't agree, and that's why they have submitted the lawsuit for trade mark infringement. Let's see what comes out of this law suit before speaking too much about Amiga resurgence based on Hyperion's OS, chances are you only will be disappointed if you invest too much hope in this one...
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
Amithony wrote:
Imagine getting the formula right enough to re-spark an Amiga resurgence!
Jahc likes to call his OS of choice AmigaOS4.1, and so does Hyperion. However, Amiga Inc (the IP owner) doesn't agree, and that's why they have submitted the lawsuit for trade mark infringement. Let's see what comes out of this law suit before speaking too much about Amiga resurgence based on Hyperion's OS, chances are you only will be disappointed if you invest too much hope in this one...
What if Amiga Inc realises the value that the hardware has and gets it's a$$ets into gear over building new products? Or if the people we support could afford to buy them out? It may be a pipe dream, but Amiga inc has truly let down its support base. Part of me hopes it loses so that people with vision and passion can carry on the legacy.
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Amithony wrote:
x56h34 wrote:
If it were up to me I would continue developing AOS as a virtual machine for WMware. :-D
How BRILLIANT! I wonder how hard it would be to do.
As easy as downloading the AROS i386 live CD...
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Is AROS any good? I haven't really seen it in action. Perhaps that's one for another thread.
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I envy your ability to do something useful with programming. I wish all programmers were aware that all three Amiga platforms need their support and knowledge.
Since there have been a lot of talk about AO4 and MOS I thought I balance it up by posting the specs for AROS as an reminder of how many computers in the world you could actually install it on, this very second.
From quick guide pdf at www.vmwaros.org . This is for the livecd hd install
2. Supported hardware
PROCESSORS
Intel: Pentium, Pentium II, Pentium III,
Pentium4, PentiumD, Core, Core2 Duo,
Core2 Quad
AMD: K6, K6-II, K6-III, Athlon, AthlonXP,
Athlon64, Athlon64 X2, Phenom, Duron,
Celeron
CHIPSETS
Any chipset supporting IDE/Atapi
operations with the processors above.
VIDEO
AMD/ATI Radeon cards, Nvidia TNT, TNT2
and GeForce cards, any VESA-compatible
card, including most integrated ones. Some
known problems with some Via, SiS and
Intel integrated GPUs.
SOUND
Any Nvidia and Intel AC97 compliant sound
adapter, Creative SoundBlaster
Live!/Audigy based on EMU10K1 DSP (no SB
Live! Value).
NETWORK
Any PCI network card based on RTL 8029, Etherlink 3, AMD Pcnet 32, Nvidia Nforce, intel
Pro-100. Partial support for RTL 8139. Using one of those is the only way to get
networking run on AROS. No modems supported yet.
KEYBOARDS AND MICE
Any PS/2 keyboard and mouse will work. USB models partially supported. In order to let
'em work, just use an adaptor or activate "USB Lecacy Support" in your BIOS.
If your USB mouse is not recognized, try opening a shell (rAros+W) and use one of these
commands:
HARD DRIVES AND OPTICAL ONES
Any EIDE/ATAPI hard drive or CD-ROM will be fully supported. Some AROS developers are
implementing Serial-ATA support in the operating system, however this version of
AROS doesn't contain experimental code. In order to let your SATA hard drive work
under AROS, you may try setting it as "Legacy ATA compatible" in your motherboard's
BIOS.
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I wonder if there are stats on how many OS4.1's have been sold?
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@cicero790
AROS also run on PPC, the Sam is already supported and the Efika support is progressing nicely as well! :-)
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@takemehomegrandma
It's great. I think all three, AOS, MOS and AROS have the possibility to do really well in the future. If someone of the three becomes extra succesfull it could pull the others. Just like Winuae probably pulled everything and brought alot of people back into Amigandom.
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by A1260 on 2008/11/5 10:58:16
if you hate sam and amiga that much why dont you take your crappy eifka and stay on the morphos forums?. we dont need you here to spread your fud. to make it crystal clear once and for all, this is an AMIGA site and not morpohs site!
SAM440 is not an Amiga. It's a Linux box, it's a AROS box, it's clearly NOT an Amiga.
Dammy
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dammy wrote:
by A1260 on 2008/11/5 10:58:16
if you hate sam and amiga that much why dont you take your crappy eifka and stay on the morphos forums?. we dont need you here to spread your fud. to make it crystal clear once and for all, this is an AMIGA site and not morpohs site!
SAM440 is not an Amiga. It's a Linux box, it's a AROS box, it's clearly NOT an Amiga.
Dammy
... that just happens to be able to run Amiga OS 4.1. That makes it an Amiga in my view.
Hans
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Amithony wrote:
I wonder if there are stats on how many OS4.1's have been sold?
No, nor are their likely to be publicly available stats. However, the 533MHz Sam 440ep was sold out before Amiga OS 4.1 beta was even available and a few of the dealers were sold-out of their 667MHz units a week ago (http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=26288#forumpost26288), so people are buying. An unknown of the 1000-2000 (estimated, probably closer to 1000) Amigaone users have also upgraded.
Hans
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Hans_ wrote:
dammy wrote:
by A1260 on 2008/11/5 10:58:16
if you hate sam and amiga that much why dont you take your crappy eifka and stay on the morphos forums?. we dont need you here to spread your fud. to make it crystal clear once and for all, this is an AMIGA site and not morpohs site!
SAM440 is not an Amiga. It's a Linux box, it's a AROS box, it's clearly NOT an Amiga.
Dammy
... that just happens to be able to run Amiga OS 4.1. That makes it an Amiga in my view.
Hans
Now that is a dumb thing to say... My Mac can run AmigaOS 3.1 in UAE... That makes it an Amiga in my view...
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bloodline wrote:
Hans_ wrote:
dammy wrote:
by A1260 on 2008/11/5 10:58:16
if you hate sam and amiga that much why dont you take your crappy eifka and stay on the morphos forums?. we dont need you here to spread your fud. to make it crystal clear once and for all, this is an AMIGA site and not morpohs site!
SAM440 is not an Amiga. It's a Linux box, it's a AROS box, it's clearly NOT an Amiga.
Dammy
... that just happens to be able to run Amiga OS 4.1. That makes it an Amiga in my view.
Hans
Now that is a dumb thing to say... My Mac can run AmigaOS 3.1 in UAE... That makes it an Amiga in my view...
You're Mac has to run Amiga OS under an emulator, on the SAM 440ep it runs natively. Regardless, it was a simple reply to Dammy's comment. Perhaps you could tell me why the SAM 440ep would be a Linux box, an AROS box but not an Amiga when it not only runs Amiga OS 4.1, but can be bought with Amiga OS 4.1 too.
Hans
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My Amiga 4000 can run Linux. That obviously makes it a Linux box.
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Settle down guys handbags away. Does it really matter which box runs what? Each to his or hers own technically speaking the original Amiga was defined by its 68000 family of processors and custom and innovative chipset.Now we have a variety of processors and chipsets running differant OS,s I,m lucky enough to have a Sam and 4.1 and I also have other Amigas running classic OS,s and IMHO each has its own positives and negatives.The way I see it is that we are lucky enough to have a diversity of hardware and software now, whether it be clasic Amiga PPC based or any other flavour lets just Enjoy!
:-D Stay Happy.
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AMEN!
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/
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... that just happens to be able to run Amiga OS 4.1. That makes it an Amiga in my view.
You can call a beer can an Amiga if you want, won't make it so. By your same POV, guess when I run AF on a x86, that makes that x86 an Amiga by your standards?
Dammy
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about the cost when compared to Efika...
SAM+AOS4 700€ Efika+MOS 350€ (the nearest dealer)
Efika needs a display card (PCI or AGP card on a riser) which power/performance ratio is hardly any better than ATI M9. Efika needs 2.5" hard drive (they are very slow on all laptops that I've used).
SAM has two times more RAM, 4*SATA IDE interface, a lot faster CPU, a FREE PCI slot, DVI out and a lot of extra stuff that I might or might not use.
So, IMHO SAM is worth the "extra" price. (Surely if one could get 600Mhz peg1 betatester board+OS for 99€ or 199€ ... but those times are gone.)
(I will order MOS board someday, I just desided to go one at a time.) :-)
reading the thread further...
and btw.... x86 + AROS is an "Amiga" to me, I keep on checking when it easily runs natively on a x86 box, preferably AcerOne laptop (might not happen, but I would also love Amithlon kind of hosting for x86)
reading more ...
Sure, also I spotted the redtail board in bbrv's web blog. It looks interesting for a desktop/laptop/kiosk "Amiga".
Perhaps MOS and/or AOS4 will be available for something like that someday, now when they are not tied to any single HW manufacturer.
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dammy wrote:
... that just happens to be able to run Amiga OS 4.1. That makes it an Amiga in my view.
You can call a beer can an Amiga if you want, won't make it so. By your same POV, guess when I run AF on a x86, that makes that x86 an Amiga by your standards?
Dammy
That was just a silly reply to your silly comment. However, seeing as you insist: the SAM 440ep runs Amiga OS 4.1 natively, not in an emulator. Also, you can actually buy it with Amiga OS 4.1.
You called it a Linux box because it can run Linux, and an AROS box because AROS also runs on it. Amiga OS 4.1 also runs on it (natively), so by what leap of logic is it not also an "Amiga box"?
Hans
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The ONLY thing I use my A4000T these days for is OctaMED Soundstudio.
I`d like to be able to use it for everything, but things are starting to go wrong. I think one of the CIAs is gone cos I cant print correctly. The sound is wrong, and sometimes the thing wont boot first time or else the caps light stays on solid and keyboard doesnt work. The right mouse button jams even when the mouse is unplugged!!
It`s happening more and more. Anybody know why?
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
Amithony wrote:
Imagine getting the formula right enough to re-spark an Amiga resurgence!
Jahc likes to call his OS of choice AmigaOS4.1, and so does Hyperion. However, Amiga Inc (the IP owner) doesn't agree, and that's why they have submitted the lawsuit for trade mark infringement. Let's see what comes out of this law suit before speaking too much about Amiga resurgence based on Hyperion's OS, chances are you only will be disappointed if you invest too much hope in this one...
That's a pretty bold statement.
Hyperion are under the impression they are the IP owner.
If there was no dispute there would be no court case.
Can't see where the disappointment is coming from.
One you have bought Sam and OS4.1, nobody from Amiga Inc will be round your house to take it back (Should they win)
As for Sam and 4.1, nobody who has bought the combination has been disappointed with it as far as I am aware.
Anyone who thinks it isn't an Amiga, my advice is to try it for yourself.
If it looks like an elephant, sounds like an elephant and acts like an elephant, then chances are it is an elephant.
(And please, no jokes about white elephants)
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Almost certainly one of the CIA has gone bad ;get thee to a repairman!
The 500/2000 you could just unplug chips but I think your 4000 has soldered ones.(I don't have a 4000 to check.)
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Yep;if you want anew Amiga and can afford the SAM/4.1 pack it makes sense to get it now.There isn't any other new Amiga computer.
I still would like to see the Dragon and Shark.
I am considering a $99 efika:anyone running Amiga OS on it?
Anyone found a way to get more than 128Mag ram?
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what it means to me is that I didnt put the crack pipe down and made a terrible decision. Fortunately I dont do crack so I'm a-ok! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
recidivist:
You cant run AmigaOS on the EFIKA unless its through e-uae. Get an EFIKA, its awesome or wait for something faster to come out and get that instead.
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@Amithony
Currently running AmigaOS 4.1 on MicroA1-C. The following details some of my observations about my own system. I am looking forward to a live demo of SAM 440.
The MicroA1-C has onboard Radeon 7000 graphics with 32 MBytes of video RAM. This is not quite enough video RAM to run a carefree environment with full-blown hardware accelerated compositing modes. Eventually, the system will slow down or freeze. I usually run my system with the compositing modes turned off. My windows have square corners and less transparency effects. No big deal. My system is stable and functional and my applications run fine. If I am careful, I can turn on compositing modes and demonstrate the eye candy, but I have to keep an eye on my free video RAM.
So how does this relate to the SAM 440 ?
The Sam440ep has 64 MBytes of video RAM, so there should be no restrictions on the compositing modes and eye candy.
I have a chance to see a Sam440 running OS4.1 next week at a live demo. If it performs as I expect, I will be ordering one shortly afterwards.
---
redfox
MicroA1-C + AmigaOS 4.1
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@All
Just want to make perfectly clear that I am not here to pick any fights or push any adgendas. My definition of Amiga is very broad and inclusive. Some of you run Winuae or Amithlon or other emulations. I also have E-UAE available on my OS4 system. It allows me to install programs which require the old installer program and to run some old favourites which require the classic chipset. Some of you have classic Amiga systems. I have also owned an Amiga 2000HD for many years. Some of you own other systems. That is fine with me. There is room for all of us.
---
redfox
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@ redfox
what sort of speeds do you get running on euae on the micro A1, amiga 500 full speeed or better?
@ everyone else
have any of you with sams tried doing the same, what sort of speeds do you get.
have any of you with effikas tried this ?
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dammy wrote:
SAM440 is not an Amiga. It's a Linux box, it's a AROS box, it's clearly NOT an Amiga.
Dammy
I disagree from the perspective that the operating system is very much an Amiga. Clearly it's the best product to hit the market since OS4. Does the fact that MAC move to intel stop it from being a MAC? I think not. Enjoy the fact that the Amiga OS has extended its life span, even if it is short lived, its better than what we have had for quite some time. I think that the SAM is going to out perform my 68060 when I put it next to it. Then I will tell you whether or not it truly is an Amiga in the full sense of the word.
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If the sam can run amiga games and hardware banging apps in emulation as fast as 060 , or maybe an 030 to be fair then it will be worth it.
But Im guessing it doesn't
What OS4 needs is an integrated Aga chipset and 68k emulator that matches or beats the speed of the fastest classic amiga, otherwise it and indeed morphos are pretty pointless as an amiga like os.
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JJ wrote:
If the sam can run amiga games and hardware banging apps in emulation as fast as 060 , or maybe an 030 to be fair then it will be worth it.
But Im guessing it doesn't
What OS4 needs is an integrated Aga chipset and 68k emulator that matches or beats the speed of the fastest classic amiga, otherwise it and indeed morphos are pretty pointless as an amiga like os.
I'll let you know once ive taken delivery of mine :)
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@ Dammy:
You must not be having a clear mind today??
Hans has already told you, as various others on the forum here within this thread, OS4.1 RUNS NATIVELY on sam440ep just like AROS and LINUX.
SO, to keep it simple stupid = KISS, the sam440ep may as well be considered the newest of Amiga systems.
Easily to say, that it is also a linux box, but then, I spose as others also have stated, one could say that the newest MAC boxes, are perhaps no longer MACS, as they are running on x86 and no longer on PPC.
SO
My question to you dammy is, why are you trying to pick a fight with smart and intelligent people like HANS, who know what they are talking about??
Thank you
Kind Regards
Mr Nice! :eek: :shocked: 8-)
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You called it a Linux box because it can run Linux, and an AROS box because AROS also runs on it. Amiga OS 4.1 also runs on it (natively), so by what leap of logic is it not also an "Amiga box"?
Eventually I will be able to run AROS 68K natively on an Amiga 68K. Does that mean the Amiga is now an AROS box? If I run Linux on a Amiga (Amiga 68K or AmigaOne), does that mean it's no longer an Amiga but a Linux box? An Amiga is a licensed product, like it or not. I most certainly do not like the current owners of the Amiga IP, but I do respect their property rights.
Dammy
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My question to you dammy is, why are you trying to pick a fight with smart and intelligent people like HANS, who know what they are talking about??
Because he is not being intellectually honest by calling it something it's clearly not?
Dammy
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Gebrochen wrote:
@ Dammy:
You must not be having a clear mind today??
My question to you dammy is, why are you trying to pick a fight with smart and intelligent people like HANS, who know what they are talking about??
Thank you
Kind Regards
Mr Nice! :eek: :shocked: 8-)
I think that some Amiga people are holding on to the hope that the clueless people at Amiga Inc are going to release hardware and refuse to accept that the newer hardware may well be the way of the future. Bring it on I say, they encourage dialogue on the system which can only be a good thing.
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@ Dammy:
Fair enough I suppose, we all have our own thoughts and personalities as well as characteristics when it comes to thoughts of what something should be called and what not.
Wanna hear my view:
I personally will be calling it a Duel boot system, And will call it an amiga system for my purposes of running it as a daily after hours from my industrial XP system.
However, That does not mean that one cant call it a linux or whatever else box if they want to.
What I am trying to say is, it depends on what the individua who uses the hardware, is using it for!
Cheers, and thank you for not flaming me and taking my question seriously in my previous post.
Have a good weekend mate. :pint:
P.S. Im using a rubber keyboard, gimme a break
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redfox wrote:
@Amithony
I have a chance to see a Sam440 running OS4.1 next week at a live demo. If it performs as I expect, I will be ordering one shortly afterwards.
---
redfox
MicroA1-C + AmigaOS 4.1
I would be fascinated to hear your feedback on this. PM me once you get a good feel for the 440.
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Nuffin :-P I prefer the original hardware. I have used WinUAE, but nothing gives me that nostalgic feeling like using a real Amiga. Even down to putting the floppy disk in, and hearing it load the game. I even find it soothing just to look at the Amiga. And let's not forget touching it! I was also tempted to buy a MiniMig, but it's too expensive for me, especially considering how crappy the Aussie dollar is at the moment :-(
Basically, when I fist used the Amiga, I was a teenager, without any responsibility, or a care in the world :-D So when I find the time to play a classic game, or watch a demo, or play with the hardware, it helps me to unwind and relax. I bet the designers never envisaged their creation(s) being used as therapy!
I also think that the Amiga was very well designed. How many 20+ year old computers are there, that can be hooked up to a modern PC? I was a very happy man when I discovered that I could use a null modem cable to transfer data to/from my PC and Amiga. It allowed me to play all those classic games that I missed out on! I know, that is the slowest method. I also have a CF to PC card adapter, and software from AmigaKit so that I can use my A600. And there are other methods...
But no, I'm not obsessed with Amigas, I just have a soft spot for them :-) It's also good to know that when I need it, my Amiga is always there, waiting for me...
Nathan
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You sure its not a hard spot rather than a soft spot :-D
Do you find this is the case when you are just touching your amigas andd insert a floppy into them :-D
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/
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TheMagicM wrote:
what it means to me is that I didnt put the crack pipe down and made a terrible decision. Fortunately I dont do crack so I'm a-ok! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
recidivist:
You cant run AmigaOS on the EFIKA unless its through e-uae. Get an EFIKA, its awesome or wait for something faster to come out and get that instead.
:-? uh! didn't you sold it?
and sorry but "Efika" and "awesome" can't fit in the same sentence!
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@takemehomegrandma
Instead of making assumptions, why don't you just ask ACube (publically or in private form) how is Sam selling in the industrial market?
Varthall
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"Efika" and "awesome" can't fit in the same sentence!
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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@KimmoK
Efika needs a display card (PCI or AGP card on a riser) which power/performance ratio is hardly any better than ATI M9.
With an AGP slot you have the *option to choose* based on your own preferences regarding price/performance. Maybe you prefer low cost in favor of 3D performance for instance?
And more important than the GPU version (after all, no Sam/Efika is going to be used as a PS3 replacement any day soon anyway ;-)) is the amount of memory! At least in the case of MorphOS, thanks to its "Layers 3D" functionality, you know where the GUI is handled by the 3D GPU (somewhat like in MacOS X and Windows Vista). This consumes a lot of GFX card memory. I've heard that 64MB is a *bare minimum* (and *not* recommended), 128MB is better, and 256MB "let you use your machine without worrying about the mem consumed by l3d" (to quote jacadcaps).
Efika needs 2.5" hard drive (they are very slow on all laptops that I've used).
That's probably because you have only used slow laptops with low RAM and bulky OS's which makes heavy use of the HDD (for virtual memory and other stuff). As you know, this is not the case on any Amiga environment, where the system boots in an instant, programs are tiny and loads in a flash, etc. And on the Efika the HDD will not be the weakest link in the IDE chain anyway, so...
SAM has two times more RAM, 4*SATA IDE interface
Sure, the Sam has more desktop alike controllers, which undoubtedly is much appreciated by people wanting to use it as a desktop. At the penalty of an insane price, of course...
FREE PCI slot
...that shares the same PCI bus as all the other controllers (including the GPU).
a lot faster CPU
No, definitely not a lot. To be honest, I haven't seen any real life comparisons, but given the higher clock frequency I'd say it's probably a bit faster, although you can certainly *not* call the Sam CPU *fast* in any way, especially not for serious desktop usage. A lean OS like the "amigoid" OS's makes the experience pleasurable on low power CPU's as long as you're not doing anything particular with it, but as soon as you start doing *demanding stuff* you should know the difference. I'd say that both Sam's and the Efika's CPU can be categorized in the same class of "embedded" CPU's.
DVI out
DVI out has been on every graphics card for ages, haven't it?
So, IMHO SAM is worth the "extra" price.
That's great then! :-)
(I will order MOS board someday, I just desided to go one at a time.) :-)
Maybe the MacMini version of MorphOS is ready when you are ready for MorphOS? Then you could get the fastest Amiga ever (1.58GHz 7447A G4), at a really low cost! :-)
Sure, also I spotted the redtail board in bbrv's web blog. It looks interesting for a desktop/laptop/kiosk "Amiga". Perhaps MOS and/or AOS4 will be available for something like that someday,
The 8610 is the latest and definitely one of the fastest e600 based CPU's. Its integrated display controller and north bridge functionality makes it possible to build a system with a very good bang for the buck ratio.
now when they are not tied to any single HW manufacturer.
Well, that remains to be seen (in both cases!) ;-)
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TiredOLife wrote:
takemehomegrandma wrote:
Amithony wrote:
Imagine getting the formula right enough to re-spark an Amiga resurgence!
Jahc likes to call his OS of choice AmigaOS4.1, and so does Hyperion. However, Amiga Inc (the IP owner) doesn't agree, and that's why they have submitted the lawsuit for trade mark infringement. Let's see what comes out of this law suit before speaking too much about Amiga resurgence based on Hyperion's OS, chances are you only will be disappointed if you invest too much hope in this one...
That's a pretty bold statement.
Not a bold statement in any way (other than that I wrote Amiga in bold ;-)).
Hyperion are under the impression they are the IP owner.
If there was no dispute there would be no court case.
They can be under whatever "impression" they like, it's not like it's their "impression" that makes facts!
I could be "under the impression" that I own the right to use the name "Windows Vista" for my own products. It would certainly boost my sales. And when Microsoft sue me for trade mark infringement, I could simply call that "a dispute, that's why there is a court case", call *you* in to call MS lawsuit "a bold statement" and simply continue to sell my products under the name "Windows Vista". For a while at least. Until the court proclaim its verdict.
I like this Hyperion quote (http://www.biclodon.com/misc/amigafarm/benhermans/) (Ben Hermans):
"The failure of Amiga Inc and the MorphOS team to come to terms is in part due to the fact that Amiga wants to assert their ownership and intellectual property rights over the Amiga OS (for which they paid 4.5 M USD) whilst the MorphOS team happily continues to refute those claims"
Now replace all instances of "the MorphOS team" with "Hyperion" and read it again for some laughs! ;-)
Can't see where the disappointment is coming from.
One you have bought Sam and OS4.1, nobody from Amiga Inc will be round your house to take it back (Should they win)
The future would disappear in an instant, the OS development would stop, all interest would go away, and with that all SW development, etc. It could very well turn out to be a still born project. I'm *not* saying it will, but the risk is clearly there until all legal issues are settled. That's where the disappointment could come from. And no, there is nothing bold about that statement.
As for Sam and 4.1, nobody who has bought the combination has been disappointed with it as far as I am aware.
I bet!
Anyone who thinks it isn't an Amiga, my advice is to try it for yourself.
If it looks like an elephant, sounds like an elephant and acts like an elephant, then chances are it is an elephant.
Exactly, and we have AROS/x86/PPC elephants, we have OS4/A1/Classic/Sam elephants, we have MorphOS/Pegasos/Efika/Classic/MacMini(soon ;-)) elephants, and of course *the elephants* (the A1000-A4000/1.0-3.9 elephants)! ;-)
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Varthall wrote:
@takemehomegrandma
Instead of making assumptions, why don't you just ask ACube (publically or in private form) how is Sam selling in the industrial market?
You just did. As has other done in other threads on other forums. Many times.
So I guess we just sit down and wait for Acube to give us some exact and correct numbers now?
Ah, come on! Why on earth should they comment on that to any outsider, be it in public or in private? Of course they won't! And they shouldn't!
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Amithony wrote:
I think that the SAM is going to out perform my 68060 when I put it next to it.
A shame if it wouldn't. Even my current pocket calculator is faster than a 68060 ;-).
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@takemehomegrandma
Both Efika and SAM are laughable if one compares their HW specs to a mini-ITX Atom system that I can build under 99$ to run AROS and UAE, so there is not much point in arguing...
But one gets a lot more in SAM+AOS4 than in Efika+MOS2, both cost too much if one compares to the world of x86 ((and are light years behind in specs))
another point for our niche machines:
If I keep my Athlon box running 24H/365d/year it costs me 70€ more in electricity per year than SAM or Efika. So our niche boards would earn back their extra cost sooner or later.
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
And more important than the GPU version (after all, no Sam/Efika is going to be used as a PS3 replacement any day soon anyway ;-)) is the amount of memory! At least in the case of MorphOS, thanks to its "Layers 3D" functionality, you know where the GUI is handled by the 3D GPU (somewhat like in MacOS X and Windows Vista). This consumes a lot of GFX card memory. I've heard that 64MB is a *bare minimum* (and *not* recommended), 128MB is better, and 256MB "let you use your machine without worrying about the mem consumed by l3d" (to quote jacadcaps).
With 64 MB L3D just does fine, I even used it on a 32MB card and it was surprisingly okay. For the OS4 composting engine it will be similar, I assume.
But still, 128 MB VRAM are indeed better and the limitation to 64 MB VRAM is as stupid as the 128MB RAM on Efika.
Rule of thumb for all computers: the least you should be stingy with is RAM, be it VRAM or "normal" RAM.
Violation of that rule of thumb leads to some unpleasant PITA.
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framiga:
uh! didn't you sold it? and sorry but "Efika" and "awesome" can't fit in the same sentence
yup. waiting for a Mac Mini port of MorphOS.
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zylesea wrote:
Amithony wrote:
I think that the SAM is going to out perform my 68060 when I put it next to it.
A shame if it wouldn't. Even my current pocket calculator is faster than a 68060 ;-).
Courses for horses. Id happily swap my calculators for your amigas if that's where you're going. :)
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hopefully running a faster machine than ef. you can't surf and listen to mplayer/songplayer simultaneously, can't play a game and listen to music, ram issues, damn.. can't multitask... now i know i saw videos of this being done!!
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Amithony wrote:
Courses for horses. Id happily swap my calculators for your amigas if that's where you're going. :)
Nothing left to swap, sold my 68k maschines many, many moons ago (except one A600). Once used to the ppc speed suddenly I didn't felt comfortable on 68k anymore.
Or to put in a nutshell: You'll be amazed by the speed of a ppc Amiga.
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zylesea wrote:
Once used to the ppc speed suddenly I didn't felt comfortable on 68k anymore.
Or to put in a nutshell: You'll be amazed by the speed of a ppc Amiga.
I suspect this will be the case when i get my sam440. Who would be the best supplier I wonder?
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Amithony wrote:
zylesea wrote:
Once used to the ppc speed suddenly I didn't felt comfortable on 68k anymore.
Or to put in a nutshell: You'll be amazed by the speed of a ppc Amiga.
I suspect this will be the case when i get my sam440.
You should definitely notice difference from a 68k system, shame otherwise!
But with "You'll be amazed by the speed of a PPC Amiga" maybe zylesea meant a G4 with Altivec?
Who would be the best supplier I wonder?
Many people seems to be very happy with Amigakit.com (http://amigakit.com), so why don't you try that one out? :-)
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
Many people seems to be very happy with Amigakit.com (http://amigakit.com), so why don't you try that one out? :-)
I was thinking of them, but i am based in Australia, so i was hoping there would be a local supplier. There may not be one, so amigakit may be the only way to go.
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@JJ
what sort of speeds do you get running on euae on the micro A1 ...
I can't really answer your question directly, because I'm not really going for a maxed out emulation and I don't use euae to play fast games.
I am using E-UAE to emulate a very basic 68K system, similar to Amiga 2000HD with no accelerator card. This means 68000 CPU and I have chosen AmigaOS 3.1 because that is what I had on my old machine.
Just for fun, I gave it 2 MB of ChipRAM, 4 MB of FastRAM, ECS chipset, full screen amiga graphics and I set the cpu speed to maximum allowable by e-uae. I use a drawer on my OS4 system parition as my Workbench partition for the emulated Amiga. I can also mount ADF files as floppies.
So, speed wise, I'm set to max allowable clock rate, but I'm emulating an 68000 CPU.
When I launch E-UAE, it loads way faster than my old A2000HD. It is also a very responsive system.
I use E-UAE for a few old favourites ...
Lore of Conquest (a very old two player space war game), Shanghai © 1986 by Activision, Inc., MegaBall v4.0, Microfiche Filer and Amiga Vision.
Sometimes I feel a slight slow down in MegaBall v4.0. It is probably faster on a real classic Amiga system.
I also used E-UAE to install TVPaint and Real3D on my OS4 system. This was an interesting exercise, because both of these programs come with an installer script that depends on the older installer program available in AmigaOS 3.x. I used OS4 and IBrowse or AWeb to download the lha files and the OS4 unarc program to unarchive the lha files into ADF files. Then I launched E-UAE and used the emulated Amiga system to mount the ADF files as floppies and install the programs onto my emulated Workbench harddrive. Then I quit E-UAE and used OS4 to drag the TVPaint drawer and Real3D drawer over to their final destination. This was the easiest way for me to do it all on the same machine.
BTW, I can run IBrowse, Final Writer 97, PPaint, TVPaint, Real3D, MakeCD, AmigaAMP, KingCON, MicroRexx, and other system friendly programs directly from my OS4 Workbench without going into E-UAE first.
Amiga Vision also runs directly from OS4, but also needs to use some things from the older systems. I'm not sure if it is occasionally touching the chipset or needs some older file formats or datatypes that I do not have installed in OS4. E-UAE seems to be able to satisfy its needs.
---
redfox
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Well,I have done it!
Just placed the order for an efika for this coming winter's computer project.(ok, one of this winter's projects....)
Will be watching for video card at hamfest tomorrow,along with the odd bit of C= stuff like $1 1541 etc.
I hope MorphOS is not too pricey,suppose I should have checked that first?
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Here's looking forward to SAM, as pricey as he is.
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@ All;
It means on the 12th i will be able to be like some others on this forum, happy Amiga drugged.
My SAM is arriving. :inquisitive: :evilgrin:
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
Varthall wrote:
@takemehomegrandma
Instead of making assumptions, why don't you just ask ACube (publically or in private form) how is Sam selling in the industrial market?
You just did. As has other done in other threads on other forums. Many times.
I don't remember any thread being opened about this, moreover a question hidden in the middle of a thread won't get much noticed, IMHO. It would be better to open a new thread.
EDIT: I'm not sure if any of the ACube guys is registered here even, let alone if they prefer to not spread any sales figures.
Varthall
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I hope they think its worth keeping up the production of these. :)
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
But with "You'll be amazed by the speed of a PPC Amiga" maybe zylesea meant a G4 with Altivec?
No, I am still quite satisfied with my 'carppy' ;-)Pegasos 1 G3 600. That serves me now since more than 6 years (well, the Pegasos 1 April1 exchange board celebrates its6th birthday next days).
I also used a Blizzard 200Mhz PowerUp card - and even that blew away my 68k setup. But compared to the Pegasos it felt slow. The Pegasos 1 has a convenient speed. Also the Efika pleases me quite well (does its job very good).
But I am looking very forward to get a Mac Mini soon to get a new main maschine - that will be quite a step forward to the Pegasos1.
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I must say that im very happy with my new SAM and OS4.1, Im almost as happy as i was 20 years ago when i got my A500 :-)
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Andeda wrote:
I must say that im very happy with my new SAM and OS4.1, Im almost as happy as i was 20 years ago when i got my A500 :-)
You said "almost", what was missing? :)
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Amithony wrote:
Andeda wrote:
I must say that im very happy with my new SAM and OS4.1, Im almost as happy as i was 20 years ago when i got my A500 :-)
You said "almost", what was missing? :)
Well i think it has something to do with my age, i just cant be as exited about something anymore as i could when i was 13 years old :-)
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Andeda wrote:
Well i think it has something to do with my age, i just cant be as exited about something anymore as i could when i was 13 years old :-)
Good response. I think im going to enjoy it as much depending on how the software plays. Is there much in the way of a software development kit that is used as yet?
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I think this is the best reply for the topic :-)
And.. I think that I will feel just about the same ;-)
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
They can be under whatever "impression" they like, it's not like it's their "impression" that makes facts!
I could be "under the impression" that I own the right to use the name "Windows Vista" for my own products. It would certainly boost my sales. And when Microsoft sue me for trade mark infringement, I could simply call that "a dispute, that's why there is a court case", call *you* in to call MS lawsuit "a bold statement" and simply continue to sell my products under the name "Windows Vista". For a while at least. Until the court proclaim its verdict.
That example is not in the slightest way relevant to the situation between Amiga Inc and Hyperion.
The situation is more complex as I suspect you well know.
If it wasn't, neither party would be spending the time, effort and money to dispute the others ownership.
The future would disappear in an instant, the OS development would stop, all interest would go away, and with that all SW development, etc. It could very well turn out to be a still born project. I'm *not* saying it will, but the risk is clearly there until all legal issues are settled. That's where the disappointment could come from. And no, there is nothing bold about that statement.
That's clearly not true.
The delevopment that still goes on for AOS3xxx shows that sw development can continue long after the parent company ditches it.
[/quote]
Exactly, and we have AROS/x86/PPC elephants, we have OS4/A1/Classic/Sam elephants, we have MorphOS/Pegasos/Efika/Classic/MacMini(soon ;-)) elephants, and of course *the elephants* (the A1000-A4000/1.0-3.9 elephants)! ;-)
I have never said anything to the contrary.
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dammy wrote:
My question to you dammy is, why are you trying to pick a fight with smart and intelligent people like HANS, who know what they are talking about??
Because he is not being intellectually honest by calling it something it's clearly not?
Dammy
What utter BS. Accusing (implicitly) others of lacking honesty just because their opinions don't match yours is truly pathetic. To me, the SAM 440ep clearly is an Amiga.
Hans
EDIT: Maybe I shouldn't have replied so that this thread gets buried. It turned sour so quickly and stayed that way.
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@Hans
No mate, it was the right thing to reply.
Always good to have an opinion.
Shows you have an interest in the world around you.
There will always be negativity no matter what the subject.
And as long as that is based on facts, that's also good.
Too much blind optimisim is as damaging as too much negativity.
If everyone voices their opinion, we should have balance.
But if you want to have the right opinion on any subject, just ask me and I will supply it. ;-)
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To me, the SAM 440ep clearly is an Amiga.
I have to say there is nothing wrong with that and we should expand our view regarding that. Maybe we should start calling old Commodore-Amigas as an original Amiga to distinct them from Minimig which is an Amiga but not the original one.
In the past I thought that only real Amigas should be called as Amigas but maybe it is time to expand my view now. Times change.
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My personal opinion, is that the Sam is inspired by the Amiga but not a piece of hardware I would love. I would much rather have the GB 1000 board instead. But that's just my opinion. If the Sam was fully backwards compatible and made to fit in an Amiga case, then it would be something desirable. I know we all must move forward, but to turn our back completely on legacy hardware, is just no something I wish to do at the moment.
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Re: SAM 440 - What would owning one mean to you?
Here's looking forward to SAM, as pricey as he is.
-----------------------------------------------------------
After much time spent watching eBay where old PPC cards fetch small fortunes and no luck finding such cards elsewhere,SAM is beginning to look reasonably priced.
Even an old Blizzard 160mhz card is now up to $375 and the auction has time yet!!!!
Might as well get NEW hardware when spending big $$$.
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To me, the SAM 440ep clearly is an Amiga.
Would it still be an Amiga to you if it didn't run OS4? I bet not. But the real Amigas, even though they can't run OS4, are still Amigas. They would still be real Amigas even if they were used to run Unix or any other OS.
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Commodore went belly up years ago. The Amiga is an orphan, new Amigas like the Sam are it's step brothers...
(http://members.cox.net/garikfox/popcorn.gif)
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Well, I am using sam, and I am happy it is working. Unfortunately, it seems my psu within the second day of starting no longer works.
So, went to my colleagues, tested it, and my MOBO is perfectly alive and well.
Now we will need to try and find a psu that will fit the nexus case.
Apart from this, everything else is good. I am currently writing this via my sam, via another spare psu, which doesnt have sata support, but I did have a ide to sata connection converter, hence no dvd rom support atm until sunday, when we go to the swap meet for new psu.
haha, well, I am extremely glad my sam440ep is well, and am quiet content with os4.1, all I need to do, is set it up a bit better with software and so forth as soon as I get that psu sunday.
Mmmmm, I might do it at the sunday amiga meeting.
Cheers. 8-)
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Gebrochen wrote:
haha, well, I am extremely glad my sam440ep is well, and am quiet content with os4.1, all I need to do, is set it up a bit better with software and so forth as soon as I get that psu sunday.
Well, setting up the software and create your own personalized system is part of the fun! This is how it has always been done, a system booted from a standard 3.1 floppy wasn't really useful, right? ;-) This I think is the beauty of the Amiga; no system is identical to another, everything is up to the user to configure and customize according to his/her needs. It's the same with MorphOS. Have fun! :-)
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takemehomegrandma
Your enthusiasm for the MorphOS sparked my taking another look at it,and ordering a new $99 efika.
Today the post lady brought a little white box ;inside a board and ..vas ist los?nicht verstanden!...oh,wait, flip over the instructions for English.Although I might have puzzled it out ,it was great-great grandfather who was German.
The pci to agp riser was included which I didn't expect/realize was part of the sale.
I was thinking of using a 4 gig SD card in 44-pin drive adapter, not yet sure if there is a compatible gfx card on hand.
Biggest fly in the ointment: I didn't follow the links far enough before ordering to discover the MorphOS license is as much or more than retail box Microsoft OS. :-?
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recidivist wrote:
takemehomegrandma
Your enthusiasm for the MorphOS sparked my taking another look at it,and ordering a new $99 efika.
Today the post lady brought a little white box ;inside a board and ..vas ist los?nicht verstanden!...oh,wait, flip over the instructions for English.Although I might have puzzled it out ,it was great-great grandfather who was German.
The pci to agp riser was included which I didn't expect/realize was part of the sale.
I was thinking of using a 4 gig SD card in 44-pin drive adapter, not yet sure if there is a compatible gfx card on hand.
Biggest fly in the ointment: I didn't follow the links far enough before ordering to discover the MorphOS license is as much or more than retail box Microsoft OS. :-?
yea but that wont stop you from trying it out just long enough before the 30min time out slow down
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I will wait for the Natami project to end up hopefully with success... I don't trust on systems that rely on emulation to handle classic software... I can do that using WinUAE.
So under my point of view nor Efika neither SAM are amigas anymore, specially since OS4 is capable of "almost" boot on a Mac... Or finally efectivelly boot.
It's like the new intel Mac's and the Leopard... Leopard can boot on a PC with some hacking. So these machines are not Mac anymore.
And yep, they have some new and nice pieces of software, but i would not spend so much money on a SAM440 when you can get a PC much more powerful for the same price, and use WinUAE faster than the Amiga emulation is on the SAM440...
In any case, i would go for an Efika, it's a fraction of SAM's price, and specs are not far behind the Acube board at the end.
Cheers.
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
@A1260
Oh boy, aren't you a blast from the past?
Hi takemehomegrandma,
If he's a blast from the past, you are the solar wind!
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
Jahc likes to call his OS of choice AmigaOS4.1, and so does Hyperion. However, Amiga Inc (the IP owner) doesn't agree, and that's why they have submitted the lawsuit for trade mark infringement. Let's see what comes out of this law suit before speaking too much about Amiga resurgence based on Hyperion's OS, chances are you only will be disappointed if you invest too much hope in this one...
Hi takemehomegrandma,
Since you bring it up (constantly), first of all, Hyperion Entertainment are going to win the lawsuit, case closed. They WILL get to keep AOS4.0 and 4.1 source code, because they own it, and have a perpetual license to use the Amiga trademark and copyright worldwide (as they own that too), and if they don't, and call it BarfOS7.24 on Friday Nov. 21, 2008, I'll keep supporting/using it anyhow.
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jorkany wrote:
Would it still be an Amiga to you if it didn't run OS4? I bet not.
No, the SAM440EP wouldn't be an Amiga to me if it didn't run AOS4.1.
jorkany the wise wrote:
But the real Amigas, even though they can't run OS4,
That's a false statement. Did you lie deliberately? Is knowingly lying permitted on this messageboard?
jorkany wrote:
are still Amigas. They would still be real Amigas even if they were used to run Unix or any other OS.
Funny story jorkany, there IS a Unix available for Amiga, oh, and even funnier, you can run old versions of MacOS on Amigas as well. Yup, hilarious. And guess what, the people who DID that ACTUALLY called their computers "Amiga". I can't believe it either;-) though! Apalling!!
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is that the new Amiga OS? BarfOS7.24 ? :lol: :lol:
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
The future would disappear in an instant, the OS development would stop, all interest would go away, and with that all SW development, etc. It could very well turn out to be a still born project. I'm *not* saying it will, but the risk is clearly there until all legal issues are settled. That's where the disappointment could come from. And no, there is nothing bold about that statement.
Hi takemehomegrandma,
Well, I was wrong when I stated that you have mellowed and are being quite constructive in pointing to other worthy CPUs that can be used, as you're clearly still in the red/blue war, as if the 2 asterixes are enough to disguise the FUD you are perpetuating, many times so far in just this thread!
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Hi DyLucke,
I'm being torn in two..... We need this new HW for AOS4.x.
But what we really need is new more powerful CPUs on our motherboards. Preferrably in the 2 GHz range and dual core WITH Altivec (64 bit would be very, very nice, but dual core 2.4GHz 32 bit is just fine), meanwhile, the NatAmi has INCREDIBLE draw on me, as it is the original, and just pure magic!!!!!
It'll blow EVERYTHING away TOTALLY!!!!!!
Imagine, boot time, 6 seconds or less, and the OS maxes out at 6 Megabytes!!!!!!!! (I can't add enough exclamation marks!)
Also, a software bag of tricks of 10 Megabytes (compressed, hehe) on top of that could put a minimum install windross xpee to shame! (Anyone hazzard to guess how big win would be?) AND if it was running off of 2 * 16 GB compact flash cards in RAID striped array???
Hahahahahahahahahahaahah!!!!!!!
And to think, they plan to go ASIC after that, ..... more than 500 MHZ!!!!!
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You going to be in the court room on the 20th for us? After the 20th, we all may know what is going to happen to OS4. As for SAM440, from what I've been reading, it's a decent mobo but with the buck:bang ratio, it's not going to set the world on fire with sales.
BTW, I left you a PM. :)
Dammy
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Hi Dammy,
I read it and will reply, however I'm posting from my AmigaOne XE at the moment and PMing here doesn't work with AWeb 3.5.08. :-( Java hitch, I guess.
About the court meeting:
First, it would be totally awesome to meet the Friedens, but I think they are submitting comments in writing.
Second, unless someone else knows better, it seemed to say "in the judge's chambers" as in, closed to the public, I beleive??
Personally, I can not see any resolution coming from this meeting. Amiga Inc. won't budge into some kind of sharing agreement, and there's no way that Hyperion will give up being allowed to sell AOS4.x (and they shouldn't). Stalemate; lawsuit proceeds to next anywhere from Jan. thru May 2009. And, I stand by Hyperion taking the whole Pot 'o' Gold.
It's unfortunately on the slow side, the Sams. :-( And, they don't have Altivec, major drawback. This is very depressing to me that we don't have more powerful HW in this day and age. But, this is still down to inappropriate unavailability of support chipsets, but they seem to have endless variants of PPC CPUs available! This is a manufactured disaster.