Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: on November 29, 2002, 01:43:46 PM
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OK, I have been waiting for this release for about nearly 2 years is it?
My question is, does it exist, are we being suckered along for what ever reason?
I do not know about anybody else but my patience is wearing very very very thin.
If you post Strong critisism on there Ibrowse Yahoo list, several people will jump on you and say things like, leave them alone they are doing a great job getting this release ready.
On top of that you get the damn Beta testers telling everyone how wonderful 2.3 is and how it is better than 2.2.
I suppose this will get the same response as on the list, they have other thing to do, they are busy, it has not been worked on for over a year.
PLEASE FIX A DAMN DATE, WHEN THAT DATE ARRIVES, RELEASE IT. Then work on the rest. it must be better than crash happy 2.2.
I do not think 2.3 exists, it is all being said to keep us strung along using Amiga's
Ibrowse 2.3, smile your on Candid Camera.
Rant over.........
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Hullo Washac
ok,
1/ To my knowledge IB2.3 is going to be included with OS4 as the browser software.
2/ have a look at the webpage:http://www.ibrowse-dev.net/ (http://www.ibrowse-dev.net/)
hope this shines some light on your plight
Cheerio
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Well, there are at least 5 people on the mailing list who have been testing the IBrowse 2.3 release candidates internally, so although you don't have physical proof, it does exist. I'm sure those who visited the AmiGBG fair in Sweden will be able to confirm it's existance too. And why would we bother to go to the effort to setup an IBrowse website if there were do be no future releases? Feel free to continue thinking otherwise if you so desire :roll:
We do have other things to do, but that doesn't mean IBrowse is not being worked on - over the last 12 months alone, a huge amount of work has been done on IBrowse. And only this week I have spent many, many hours rewriting a fundamental part of the JavaScript engine (a part which is broken in AWeb and Voyager too, btw).
It's true that the IBrowse 2.3 release is long overdue, but it wouldn't be right to release it until we are happy that it is in a releasable state. And the beta testers don't always "tell everyone how wonderful 2.3 is and how it is better than 2.2" - what we try to do is answer everybody's queries as best we can, which helps assure people that we have looked at the problems they've reported and whether we have fixed them for 2.3 (and if not, why not). I'm sure the majority of people would prefer we didn't remain completely silent.
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Forgive me if I'm not too excited, but thier website is finally letting me in, and I find nothing to be excited about.
Let me sum it up like this.
Amiga OS4 needs a browser BAD!!!
and I'm not talkin' bout Ibrowse.
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The site ibrowse-dev (http://www.ibrowse-dev.net/) is a regular xml/xhtml site.
Does it mean that Ibrowse will be xml enabled ?
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Well, I want to tell ya' not to feel so bad, but you should have
gotten Voyager if you wanted timely updates! Seriously, if the
IBrowse team went to the trouble of getting a website set-up, they are
getting ready for a release.
Though, I do wonder why the new site isn't "Omnipresence Intl"..?
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Oh for goodness sake! Sometimes it feels like half the posts here are griping about how Amiga'a browswers need to be so much better, and the other half is spent griping that development is taking too long and "maybe it's not coming anyway." PUH-LEASE! Use 2.2 (Not at all bad, in my opinion) and let the good folk make 2.3 as good as they want it to be. Then they've promised to start on 3.0! I am impatient, too, but I can at least recognise that it's MY problem, not theirs!
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Yeah, well...
Anyway...
Amiga OS4 needs a browser BAD!!!
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> and I'm not talkin' bout Ibrowse.
Well, I disagree. IBrowse is the best Amiga browser today. It needs better Javascript and a little more stability, but as far as I've understood, that's being worked on. With more frequent updates, IBrowse can be a very good browser for AOS4.
As for Voyager, it's too unstable for me. And as far as I've understood, there's no PPC native Amiga version planned (correct me if I'm wrong), so it's a bit of a dead end in that respect.
Kay
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"and let the good folk make 2.3 as good as they want it to be. Then they've promised to start on 3.0! I am impatient, too, but I can at least recognise that it's MY problem, not theirs!"
I found that interesting comment "MY problem . . "
I think that point covers a lot of what is happening with the Amiga (or not happening). I am an end user. It is my choice to use what is out there now. All the other stuff is in the hands of others. If I choose not to wait then that is MY choice. Yes, it is frustrating waiting, I would love to have Ibrowse2.3, heck, I would love to have Ibrowse3.x with all the updates to use on any site I wish, but . . . that is not going to happen by tomorrow or next month or . . . so, I can enjoy using what I am using now and wait or I can CHOOSE whatever is out there now and enjoy using it. Banging on people to get a product out dosen't seem to help. Heck, if someone wants to make their own browser, then they could sell it to others and we all we then be happy right :-)
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The only thing stopping me saying to everybody "come here and buy this new machine" is the fact that our current browsers don`t hold their own well against others. They are good, but they don`t support everything. JAVA, CSS, Flash/Shockwave etc. Its sort of embarassing. :-x
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> As for Voyager, it's too unstable for me.
It's getting better. Haven't crashed 3.3.123 yet.
> And as far as I've understood, there's no PPC
> native Amiga version planned (correct me if I'm wrong)
Voyager PPC-BETA 3.3.123 (2002-04-02)
Oh and it's pretty damn fast.
>, so it's a bit of a dead end in that respect.
Not quite.
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Yer barkin' up the wrong tree. Java can't be supported in a browser if it's not supported by the OS. If you want Flash support, just go to the Macromedia web page, download the Amiga versio, install it and go! What, no Amiga version? Then THAT'S where your complaint should be, NOT with the browser. Same goes for REAL, Windows, etc. All of those provisions are controlled by forces other than the browser programmers (although better plug-in capability would benefit ALL of the Amiga browsers).
Good pojects take time to complete. In the mean time, start politely reminding REAL et al that Amiga is back, and we °ould be thrilled to spend our money on their projects.
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As far as I can tell, Ibrowse and Voyager are about
level pegging in the Browser Wars, with each nipping
each other as updates are released. As a registered
user of both, I too eagerly await IB 2.3.
As for JAVA, Flash and so on, WHO CARES??? I have
found that between them, IB and V can cope with most
of what the 'net throws at em.
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But Voyager DOES support flash, doesn't it ?
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> It's getting better. Haven't crashed 3.3.123 yet.
Well, that's good then, I might give it a go again, and see if it works as well here.
> Voyager PPC-BETA 3.3.123 (2002-04-02)
>
> Oh and it's pretty damn fast.
Really? Where can I get it? I can't seem to find anything but the Amiga 68k and the MorphOS verison on the Vapor site. What's the file called?
> Not quite.
Guess I was wrong, then. I wasn't aware of there being an Amiga PPC version. :-)
Kay
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> But Voyager DOES support flash, doesn't it ?
It does, but it is for PowerUp. For me, this makes it quite unusable, since I run WarpUp, and the PowerUp emulation has a tendency of crashing YAM (well, at least it used to). Considering the popularity of WarpUp and YAM, I doubt I'm the only one in this situation.
Kay
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> Really? Where can I get it?
ftp.vapor.com
> I can't seem to find anything but the Amiga 68k
> and the MorphOS verison on the Vapor site.
> What's the file called?
/pub/voyager/v3_3_beta123_morphos.lha
Runs perfect on my Amiga.
Hint: You didn't say AmigaOS. ;-)
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I find adding the IBrowse2.2_Patch.lha to IB2.2
And changing the Preferences,General,Default stack size to 131072
Makes it more stable & i can visit sites that would crash it before.
Oh & Make sure you have the latest MUI libs.
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Yeah, I reckon the folks working on Ibrowse are doing the best they can.
It's all the cotton pickin' waiting.
It's killing me.
Everyone is pushing deadlines, trying to get things out soon.
And it seems to me like they are doing a good job at it.
I've waited this long, so a few more months ain't gonna kill me.
Forgive me for saying what I have about Ibrowse and also Pegesos.
The Amiga and other products are coming at last.
I'm sorry if I made anyone feel uncomfortable.
I'll shut my mouth now and watch everything come.
Just please people...
When you get you AmigaOnes in, don't be silent about it like the testers are doing.
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CSS would be nice, I could care less about the rest.
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From reading the FAQ, we'd be best to wait til version 3.0... Which looks like it might be a real brower, for the web that is.
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Im one of those beta testers.
And yes, as predicted - Im saying it's kick arss.
Well it is! The Javascript is such a pleasure - certainly the best out of all the amiga browsers.
I feel the decision to make iBrowse the official OS4 browser was wise.
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> /pub/voyager/v3_3_beta123_morphos.lha
>
> Runs perfect on my Amiga.
Well, it IS a dead end then, as far as I am concerned. I have no plans of installing MorphOS as my main OS, and it has too little unique software to be worth the hassle of dual-booting it. So I will be stuck with an emulated 68k version if I am to use Voyager.
> Hint: You didn't say AmigaOS. ;-)
When I say "Amiga version", I usually mean "a version which runs on Amiga WITHOUT installing another OS". For example, I can get Civ2 running on my Amiga through MacOS, but I don't consider it to be an Amiga version. I could get some Linux software running on my Amiga through LinuxAPUS, but I still wouldn't consider it "Amiga software". When I get my AmigaOne, I will be most likely be dualbooting LinuxPPC with AmigaOS. Although everything runs on my AmigaOne, I will consider the software on the AmigaOS side as "Amiga software" and the rest as "Linux software".
If it doesn't run on AmigaOS, I don't consider it an "Amiga version".
Kay
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What I meant was that if we are to get new serious users of future Amigas we NEED all the support we can get. Maybe you don`t care about JAVA, but other, new users maybe will. They will be told to go to a website by some friend and have to say "sorry this site doesn`t work on my computer". Thats a not a way to win more users. I`m fully aware that its not 100% the fault of the IBrowse people.
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Basically we want IBrowse user ability with Netscape (or something) functionality.
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Hey, Java is needed for most dating chats!
oh...nevermind :)
Anyway, my primary pc browser is opera and opera (my opera) never works with java or javascript, but then again, I never need it (barely never). The only thing I need fx Internet explorer for is my stupid bank.
I do however agree with the people saying we need a browser capable of all that (whether it be the browser team's responsibility or whoevers) to lure new users to the platform, which I think in some way is very needed.
If Ibrowse 2.3 works well with 'normal' sites, is stable and fast it will be a pleasure to use for me. However, 'just' targeting the current amiga users is a dead end (I think). What we want and need is not a lot more important than what the masses want and think they need.
Personally I love the fact that an amiga owner is usually a clever person with much different ideas about a computer and well-written software than pc users, but I think we need those pc users to raise money for future development. I do not know anything about AI's financial position, but I would think they could use the money.
Rambling on right from the break of dawn,
Sincerely,
-Kenneth Straarup.
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I like A-Web, it's certainly the most stable on my
system, but with some sites it is horrible! On
A-Org, it redraws the whole screen everytime it loads
an avatar...it about gives me a headache. Ibrowse
is almost as stable, but the image quality is not
as good as A-Web (perhaps this can be changed, I'm
just not sure yet). Voyager is real fast, but also
suffers from poor image quality compared to A-Web,
and it crashes every 5 minutes, which doesn't really
give me the desire to register it.
I really hope Ibrowse 2.3 does 'kick butt', this crappy
browser thing is really starting to wear. Which reminds
me, I think I'll wait until OS4 has a real PPC browser
(that works at my bank) before I sign up.
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@elendil
Hey, Java is needed for most dating chats!
oh...nevermind :)
Anyway, my primary pc browser is opera and opera (my opera) never works with java or javascript, but then again, I never need it (barely never). The only thing I need fx Internet explorer for is my stupid bank.
Dating chat :-D
There were 2 Opera downloads. One was just the Browser, one was browser with JAVA install, IIRC. Perhaps you need to install the JAVA bit? It did make the download a fair bit bigger though. I use Opera for my main browser too. But again, it isn't supported for my bank(s)
@mounatinmyst
I think the current A1 developers can't really say too much - NDA. As soon as my G3SE arrives (hopefully next week :-D ) I'll be posting very often! Part of this will be because I've never installed, or even looked at Linux before :-o Anyway, I want to try and get MacOnLinux running while I'm waiting for AOS4.
As regards Amiga browser (to get back on topic), I think everyone agrees it's vitally important to have one that 'just works' I look forward to iBrowse 2.3. I never really used it much before (only demo). I'm treating it as something that will get me by until iBrowse 3 is ready to go.
Cheers,
J
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Well. I have a free connection and always download opera+java, but it has never worked with any version. I think javascript is just screwed (I know it is not related to the jre shipped with opera), while most java things seem to check for internet explorer, and kindly tell me that I am unable to use it.
My point was just that java is not really needed by _me_ (not just because I never get it working :)),
As for the person saying he will wait for a decent browser that works with his bank...good luck. If your bank has a set of programmers alike in skill to the ones of the danish banks you will have to wait a long, long time. These are just horrible. The one I use (the best with fewest charges for every stupid thing you might be doing) requires a specific path for a keyfile, for example. And guess what: it's "c:\danskebank\somemore", rendering it unusable on my ibook, unless I use Virtual PC.
I could use a Virtual PC for AOS4.
Sincerely,
-Kenneth Straarup.
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> As for the person saying he will wait for a decent browser that works with his bank...good luck.
Hey, it all depends on the bank. My bank works just fine and dandy with IBrowse today. :-D
Kay
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> I can't seem to find anything but the Amiga 68k
> and the MorphOS verison on the Vapor site.
> What's the file called?
/pub/voyager/v3_3_beta123_morphos.lha
Runs perfect on my Amiga.
So does LinuxPPC, for example. Is that *Amiga* software too?
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Kay wrote:
> But Voyager DOES support flash, doesn't it ?
It does, but it is for PowerUp. For me, this makes it quite unusable, since I run WarpUp, and the PowerUp emulation has a tendency of crashing YAM (well, at least it used to). Considering the popularity of WarpUp and YAM, I doubt I'm the only one in this situation.
That's odd, I managed to rely on Voyager to do my online Cisco course (which uses flash throughout) and I only have an 040. There are 68K versions available which means that (probably to the disgust of David Gerber) there will be a fairly fast (if outdated) version available for the AmigaOne.
@everyone
I agree with what one guy said, no-one forces you to use an Amiga, if you're really that bothered by Amiga web software, buy a PC or Mac - Simple. Personnally I've found browsing on an Amiga OK for the most part, and usually if one browser doesn't work on a site another will.
Yes it is annoying when you fork out £££s for a browser (that'd be free on any other platform) in the hope of the next version being more up to date, only to wait 2 years and get nothing. But that is the Amiga market's fault - these things can only be part-time work.
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by createcoms on 2002/12/1 0:35:12
And yes, as predicted - Im saying it's kick arss
Thank you so much for coming out of the woods and speaking.
I wished many more would talk, like you did.