Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Amiga Emulation => Topic started by: Painkiller on October 27, 2008, 02:36:09 PM
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Just asking because I would like one :)
Could we possibly setup a bounty for it?
Main features should be:
Installable from CD or USB stick (what ever the PS3 support)
During install process it would ask for kickstart and OS media (3.1 or 3.9).
Hardware target should be A1200 with either 040 or 060
Ofcourse support for USB Competition Pro
:-D
Now I can go and dream about it... :sleep:
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I'd be more interested in a Cloanto UAE type solution.
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Funny, you ask about Amithlon and than you talk about UAE ....
If had takn the time to investigate what Anithlon really was/is, you'd come up with the conclusion that it is not suited for PPC-HW nor your needs and thus you would have spared us another pointless post.
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Yes, sounds more like you want bootable/installable pre-configured environment. I'm sure with enough tweaks AmiKit, AmigaSys, CWB, etc. would run on PS3 Linux + E-UAE.
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Anyone intrested in Amithlon type PS3 Amiga emulator?
No. The PS3 is a red herring.
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@Painkiller
Hardware target should be A1200 with either 040 or 060
PS3 isn't fast enough for that I'm afraid.
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@Piru
The last time I looked at Amithlon, it was running on a Celeron 333 with 128KB level 2 cache--certainly not the world's fastest processor.
It seems to me that an Amiga-like hypervisor (on top of the PS3 hypervisor) designed to run across multiple SPEs would be fast enough.
Written on top of a smart parallel API, it could be ported to both PS3 and Xbox 360.
It's really too bad Amithlon can't be separated from whatever IP made it so controversial--unless it already is. I've never looked at the internals.
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Kronos wrote:
Funny, you ask about Amithlon and than you talk about UAE ....
If had takn the time to investigate what Anithlon really was/is, you'd come up with the conclusion that it is not suited for PPC-HW nor your needs and thus you would have spared us another pointless post.
He didn't mention UAE, I did. You got a problem with that? Are you calling my post pointless or his?
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I´m a bit surprised too that the ps3 should be underpowered to run a 040 aga amiga, even a 060 one.
Especially since it has booted XP and Vista even! :-o
utube video of xp here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-Ecr8tWetI&feature=related)
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@Trev
The last time I looked at Amithlon, it was running on a Celeron 333 with 128KB level 2 cache--certainly not the world's fastest processor.
Last time I looked at Amithlon, it didn't run on PS3.
In fact all you have is UAE - without JIT.
It seems to me that an Amiga-like hypervisor (on top of the PS3 hypervisor) designed to run across multiple SPEs would be fast enough.
And who'd write that? Amiga emulation doesn't multithread anyway.
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@Piru
Last time I looked Amithlon, it didn't run on PS3. In fact all you have is UAE - without JIT.
Obviously. In terms of functionality, UAE would be just as capable. Some of Amithlon's features (native Linux video drivers) would be superfluous; others (x86 native code) would be cool (PowerPC native code with WarpUP and PowerUP compatibility).
There's nothing wrong with dreaming. ;-) As I recall, a little dream thread like this (and a lot of work, of course) spawned the Minimig.
And who'd write that? Amiga emulation doesn't multithread anyway.
I don't know, Santa Claus. There's no reason a proper design couldn't take advantage of multiple execution units to implement the asynchronous parts of the system or even offload emulation tasks like recompilation. At that point, though, you'd have a hypervisor with a platform scheduler running behind the operating system scheduler.
Funny thought: virtualization has existed in mainframes and minicomputers for decades; however, it's still near impossible to convince business system owners that virtualization is safe and effective on distributed systems, despite what VMware, Microsoft, Sun, Citrix, Novell, and others claim about adoption rates. Nevermind the fact that their applications already share resources by running on an operating system as opposed to bare metal. ;-)
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@Trev
In terms of functionality, UAE would be just as capable.
But in terms of performance, not.
There's no reason a proper design couldn't take advantage of multiple execution units to implement the asynchronous parts of the system
Except that there really isn't any asynchronous parts, everything must be really tightly syncronized to get proper emulation.
or even offload emulation tasks like recompilation.
If JIT would be implemented it really wouldn't be worth the trouble to use SPEs for the translation. SPEs have akward (read: no) access to the main system memory, and the actual translation takes relatively little CPU resources -> just use the PPE.
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I would like to see that, I have experimented some with UAE under yellow dog on the ps3 but no big sucess realy.
I don´t realy know if you wan´t a emulater under Linux on the ps3 or if you are talkinga bout a selfbooting thingy?
As far as I know the only selfbooting in the ps3 OS without linux is Java based, like the nes emulator running in java Ev, and getting a amiga emulator onto that, meh don´t think so.
Anyways noone has any proof of getting access to the full GPU on the ps3 when using linux yet that must be a drawback if anyone would like a1200?
//som99
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@Piru
But in terms of performance, not.
Relative to UAE optimized for other contemporary processors, I agree.
If JIT would be implemented it really wouldn't be worth the trouble to use SPEs for the translation. SPEs have akward (read: no) access to the main system memory, and the actual translation takes relatively little CPU resources -> just use the PPE
Awkward in the same way GPUs have awkward access to main system memory. That's not necessarily a problem. Improved performance or not, a dynamic or interpreted emulation that uses the PPE to control an SPE pipeline would be a fun little toy.
Even without a PS3, porting bits of WinUAE to run on a WinFast PxVC1100 or similar add-in card would be fun.
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Well UAE could also be used if it would help the process :) What puzzles me is that why haven't JIT been implemented to PPC port of UAE? Would it be a huge task?
I really had in mind a complete custom emulator that is able to boot in PS3. Shouldn't it be possible to emulate Amiga custom chips with SPEs etc. That should really make it pretty efficient emulator.
Now back to :sleep:
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@Painkiller
I really had in mind a complete custom emulator that is able to boot in PS3
That'd be a massive project, and the end result would likely be inferior to UAE regardless.
Shouldn't it be possible to emulate Amiga custom chips with SPEs etc.
Not really.
Even if it would (in theory you can perform any computational problem on the SPEs too), it wouldn't make any sense. It would be slower than running the emulation with the PPE alone.
SPEs are no replacement for general purpose processor.
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Well if that is the case then why not focus on JIT for PPC platforms? Then it would be possible to load up a small footprint linux and load UAE that way and have pretty fast emulation. There is already www.xamiga.net with a little modification and working JIT this should be possible to be run on PS3
BTW the guy who is working on X-Amiga is already working on a PPC port. Maybe we could donate a PS3 for him ;) and few other coders to aid him in the job if he wants.
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@Painkiller
Well if that is the case then why not focus on JIT for PPC platforms?
I guess everyone is happy running UAE on x86.
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E-UAE on a tight Linux distribution should work, albeit more slowly than on a modern G5.
It's been said by the man himself that the only hurdles to open sourcing Amithlon and his early work on a PPC JIT are serious involvement by a talented programmer and probable drama courtesy of Harald Frank.
Did Petunia ever make it into the wild, or has it been locked into OS4?
Aside: You have to wonder how much of the drama in the Amiga world started out with slight cultural differences, misunderstandings, and misinterpretations. Everything from sarcasm to the definition of intellectual property varies wildly from society to society.
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PPC definitely NEEDS!! Uae JIT not just for projects like running on PS3 but for running on Morph,OS4
But a Amithlon PPC version would also be very cool I know of some cheap PPC hardware;-) id be happy to make this my main OS.
I thought there very nearly was a PPC Amithlon -What happend to it?
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I think legal confusion over who owned what and a lack of consensus on how to move forward killed everything to do with Amithlon/Umilator. No single party appears to have clearly understood the intentions of the others.
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Umisef over at AmigaWorld said he had umilator and 68k>PPC>JIT on his HD if anyone was seriously intrested -work is needed.
So I would think its possible and this 68k>PPC>JIT source shouldnt go to waste.