Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: motorollin on October 22, 2008, 05:09:36 PM
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A1200 in Power Tower
BPPC (unknown spec)
IDE CD-ROM on first channel of IDE adapter
No HDD currently attached
When I boot the above machine from the OS4 floppy it does the following:
1. Accesses the floppy disk for a while then reboots
2. Accesses the floppy disk for a while then accesses the CD-ROM for a while, then reboots
3. Screen turns red, then blue, then reboots
These steps repeat over and over again.
I thought it might be something to do with the MapROM setting, since red screen usually means ROM issues, but MapROM is disabled. Memory is set to 70ns as per the OS4 manual.
Any ideas what's going on? Could the PPC be dead? Is there a way of testing it without finding a hard drive, installing an OS, and installing WarpOS? (whatever that is - I've never used a PPC on an Amiga before)
TIA
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moto
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Try without the ide adapter.
There is an issue with at least one make to my knowledge.
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Thanks for the suggestion. I don't have a cable suitable for connecting a CD-ROM to the 44 pin IDE interface. Is it possible to copy the contents of the OS4 CD to a hard drive with the same volume name as the CD and get the OS4 installer to boot from that?
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moto
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I think you have to get the floppy out just when it tries to kick into the second cycle.
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Really? In the manual it says that it should recognise that it's booting OS4 and hand over to the CD. Also, if I take the disk out, will it be able to boot from the CD?
Anyway, I'll try it. Just to make sure I understand what you are suggesting:
1. Boot from floppy. Let it reboot
2. Boot from floppy. Let it reboot then immediately take out the floppy
3. Boot from CD
Right?
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moto
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@Moto
If you have a partition with 3.9 you can install fom there.
People have also just copied the cd to the hard drive, and made the neccessary changes to the kicklayout.
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TiredOLife wrote:
If you have a partition with 3.9 you can install fom there.
I don't have any OS installed on this machine ATM.
TiredOLife wrote:
People have also just copied the cd to the hard drive, and made the neccessary changes to the kicklayout.
I was thinking of just creating a partition, giving it the same volume name as the OS4 CD, and dumping all the files there. Would that work?
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moto
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*bump*
Just hoping for confirmation that an FFS partition labelled "AmigaOS 4.0 Install CD" with the contents of the CD copied to its root will function as an installation source for OS4. If so, would this boot without needing the floppy?
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moto
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Hi moto,
It's been a while since I played with OS4 and I don't have a CDrom on my A4000/PPC at the mo.
I can't answer the question above but IIRC it's just the same as booting into your Emergency-Boot floppy and OS3.9 CD.
I've just booted into the A4000/PPC using OS4 boot floppy disk only and got the report "Please insert volume AmigaOS4.0 install CD in any drive".
(I didn't see any flashing colours)
I then stuck the OS4 boot floppy disk into my A4000/060 and go the same "Please insert volume AmigaOS4.0 install CD in any drive". Inserted the OS4 CD but it wasn't found because my CDrom is unit 2 on the secondary IDE channel......Doh! (no flashing colours were seen)
Took the floppy out and did a reset forgetting that I was running the prog called CD-Boot. I chose to boot into the OS4 CD and got:-
C:BootLoader: Unknown command
C:BootLoader failed returncode 10
IIRC correctly the fact that you are seeing the flashing coulours is a good indication that the OS4 CD is being found ok. If you remove the OS4 CD and just boot from the OS4 boot floppy, do you see "Please insert volume AmigaOS4.0 install CD in any drive"??
(It's rather fitting that my 1000th post should be for you mate ;-) :pint:)
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A4000_Mad wrote:
I've just booted into the A4000/PPC using OS4 boot floppy disk only and got the report "Please insert volume AmigaOS4.0 install CD in any drive".
Yes, that's what I get if I don't put the CD in. With the CD there, it doesn't happen and there is activity from the CD drive.
A4000_Mad wrote:
(I didn't see any flashing colours)
The flashing colours appear after it has accessed the CD.
A4000_Mad wrote:
IIRC correctly the fact that you are seeing the flashing coulours is a good indication that the OS4 CD is being found ok.
I'm not so sure. It's not flashing colours like the softkick of a ROM image. It's static, coloured screens which stay for a second, then either change to the next colour or go black.
A4000_Mad wrote:
If you remove the OS4 CD and just boot from the OS4 boot floppy, do you see "Please insert volume AmigaOS4.0 install CD in any drive"??
Yes.
A4000_Mad wrote:
(It's rather fitting that my 1000th post should be for you mate ;-) :pint:)
Indeed it is - thanks!
:pint:
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moto
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I think I might have made some progress. I copied the contents of the OS4 CD on to an FFS formatted hard disk, which I then connected directly to the A1200's IDE interface. I booted from the floppy and this is what happens:
1. Accesses the floppy disk for a while then reboots
2. Accesses the floppy disk for a while then accesses the hard drive for a while, then reboots
3. Screen turns red, then blue, then purple, then reboots
4. Lots of hard disk activity (seems to be booting) then 15KHz screen turns white. No input on the VGA monitor connected to the BVPPC
The amount of disk activity in stage 4 suggests to me that it's booting. I'm hoping that means the PPC works. But why the white screen on the 15KHz output? Is that normal once OS4 has finished booting? Is it possible that it has booted but the BVision either doesn't work, or the resolution is too high for the monitor?
Soooo, I suppose what I'm really asking here (long story short...) is this: is it normal for the 15KHz output to go to a blank screen when OS4 has finished booting if you have a BVision installed?
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moto
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"Soooo, I suppose what I'm really asking here (long story short...) is this: is it normal for the 15KHz output to go to a blank screen when OS4 has finished booting if you have a BVision installed?"
yep
edit- as blank i mean white.
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Framiga wrote:
"Soooo, I suppose what I'm really asking here (long story short...) is this: is it normal for the 15KHz output to go to a blank screen when OS4 has finished booting if you have a BVision installed?"
yep
Ahh, brilliant! So it looks like the BPPC is working!
:banana: :pint:
Framiga wrote:
edit- as blank i mean white.
Oops, yes I meant to say white :-)
If I remove the BVision, will OS4 display on an AGA screenmode?
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moto
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never tryed to actually use OS4 on AGA ... probably yes. (i did only all the installation under AGA for mistake)
Edit- just checked with Scout and ScreenMode and although without having any PAL descriptor in Devs/Monitor, a lot of PAL modes are present
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So did the installer actually display under AGA? If so I'll whip out the BVision and try to boot OS4.
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moto
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I'm pretty sure that as an experiment I removed my GFX card and the installer displayed AGA no problem. IIRC the installer looks for supported GFX cards and displays in 800 x 600 for you :-)
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A4000_Mad wrote:
I'm pretty sure that as an experiment I removed my GFX card and the installer displayed AGA no problem
Great, I'll give it a try then.
A4000_Mad wrote:
IIRC the installer looks for supported GFX cards and displays in 800 x 600 for you :-)
Hmm, 800x600 should display on the VGA monitor I'm using. I hope the CVPPC isn't dead :-(
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moto
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"Hmm, 800x600 should display on the VGA monitor I'm using. I hope the CVPPC isn't dead"
i'm confused now! we are still speaking about an A1200?
and re-reading your posts i'm more confufed now.
Have you installed the FFS dundled with the OS4 CD (68K) onto the RDB with dostype DOS/7 (support for longfilenames)? or better SFS?
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Framiga wrote:
i'm confused now! we are still speaking about an A1200?
Sorry, typo. It's an A1200 with a BPPC and a BVision.
Framiga wrote:
Have you installed the FFS dundled with the OS4 CD (68K) onto the RDB with dostype DOS/7 (support for longfilenames)? or better SFS?
No. I'm not trying to install the OS yet. I just want to get to the installer for now, so I dumped the contents of the CD on to an FFS partition so I don't have to boot from the CD (because I have been told above that the 4-way IDE interface might be causing the booting problems and I have no way of connecting a 40-way device (i.e. the CD-ROM) directly to the Amiga)
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moto
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yes ok but the OS4 partition, have some very long filenames that if you used an old FFS, will be truncated.
Fonts directory, for example
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Framiga wrote:
yes ok but the OS4 partition, have some very long filenames that if you used an old FFS, will be truncated.
Fonts directory, for example
Even on the CD?
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moto
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of course
Bitstream Vera Sans Mono Oblique.otag (more than 32 char)
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Hmm, ok. I wonder whether that would stop it booting? Or let it get a certain way in to booting and then stop but not give an error saying that it can't find a file?
Will the version of FFS provided with OS4 work under OS3.1? If so, where do I find it on the CD to install it on the drive under UAE before copying over the contents of the CD?
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moto
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is in OS4CD:System/L/ (v51.10)
but why dont setup a 500MB 68k SFS partition instead? dump all the CD content and then do what you need to do (not sure how, anyway)
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Framiga wrote:
is in OS4CD:System/L/ (v51.10)
but why dont setup a 500MB 68k SFS partition instead? dump all the CD content and then do what you need to do
Good idea. I'll try that.
Framiga wrote:
(not sure how, anyway)
How to do what?
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moto
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installing from the HD mirrored CD.
You have to tweak a lot. Good luck :-)
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Framiga wrote:
installing from the HD mirrored CD.
You have to tweak a lot.
Really? It seemed to find the files on the HDD without any changes (the partition was called "AmigaOS 4.0 Install CD").
Framiga wrote:
Good luck :-)
Thanks :-)
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moto
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"Really? It seemed to find the files on the HDD without any changes (the partition was called "AmigaOS 4.0 Install CD")."
err no!
Directory Vuoto:AOS4_CD
BootFloppy [ Dir]
C-68k [ Dir]
Installation-Files [ Dir]
Installation-Support [ Dir]
S [ Dir]
System [ Dir]
.backdrop 23
AmigaOS4-Installation 17266
AmigaOS4-Installation.info 5571
AmigaOS_InstallerLocale.py 12299
CD-Version.txt 68
disk.info 9714
installer-logo.png 60036
license.txt 7552
Make_Bootfloppy 741
Make_Bootfloppy.info 2634
Start_From_OS3.x 621
Start_From_OS3.x.info 2633
System.info 8316
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The volume name of the CD of my copy of OS4 is "AmigaOS 4.0 Install CD". If I boot from the floppy without the CD inserted it asks me to insert a volume with that name.
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moto
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ok, the one i posted is a mirror of the whole AOS4 CD onto my HD (Vuoto:)
So you will use the Start_From_OS3.x script?
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No, there is no OS3.x installed on the drive. Just the contents of the OS4 CD. Think of the hard drive as an exact duplicate of the CD so that the unmodified OS4 floppy can find the files it needs to get to the installer.
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moto
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looking at the boot floppy SS, it should.
Use absolutely a 500MB bootable partition with a filesystem supporting long filenames. (the CD is less than 150 MB).
All the rest is up to you ;-)
oops remove "bootable"
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Ok, I'll take the hard drive out of the Amiga, connect it back to my Mac and install SFS from within UAE. Then I'll copy the CD contents on to it and try again. If that doesn't work I'll remove the BVision and see if that works.
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moto
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gulp, ok! let we know.
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Will do - but not tonight :-)
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moto
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As i'm a bad guy, i'll tell you to try to install MOS PUP first on a standard FFS partition (make sure that there is not SFS partition), then install the 68k FFS filesystem on the OS4CD and create 2 good partitions, 1st for all the CD content (copy CD0: XXX: all clone), the 2nd for the "system" and modify the startup seq in consequence.
I did something like that in time ...
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@CLS2086
Thanks for the suggestion but TBH that sounds more complicated than using UAE to copy the files to the drive. I'll consider your suggestion if that doesn't work though.
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moto
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Well I have had some success :-D
I re-partitioned the hard drive with SFS and re-copied the OS4 files, but unfortunately it still wouldn't display anything on the VGA monitor. I started thinking that the BVision must be dead, so I removed it. When I booted again, sure enough there was the OS4 installer on an AGA screenmode!
Then I noticed some bare wires coming from the A1200 motherboard, right underneath where the BVision would have been. They were connected to the floppy connector, and my heart sank when I thought of 5v going somewhere they shouldn't. I removed the cable and re-connected the BVision, booted up, and up popped the OS4 installer on my VGA monitor!
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
:pint: :pint: :pint: :pint: :pint:
Can I assume at this point that the PPC definitely works?
I clicked through the installer (actually just Locale Prefs...) and it seemed very slow, and after the Locale Prefs had closed I was left with a blank Workbench Screen. This might be a weirdness due to the installation files not being located on the CD, so if someone can confirm that the presence of Workbench at all means that the PPC is working then I'll invest some money in this machine and get a 44->40->40 way IDE cable.
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moto
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Red then blue screen when booting OS4
It's a sign! ;-) :-P
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Hi,
take time to check the bppc firmware too ! ;-)
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
Red then blue screen when booting OS4
It's a sign! ;-) :-P
:lol:
Actually, now it's booting it goes red then blue then purple. Since red and blue combine to make purple, I choose to believe that this A1200 is trying to tell us that OS4 and MOS can live in peace and harmony ;-)
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moto
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CLS2086 wrote:
Hi,
take time to check the bppc firmware too ! ;-)
I will once I have got the OS installed. But I don't think I can do that without a new IDE cable, and I don't want to buy it until I know the PPC is definitely working ;-)
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moto
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its working!
OS4 starts using the 68K to load the bootloader (all 68K until now filesystem also) then reboots and since then only the PPC is used.
Now start to reduce every eye candy like gradients and antialias, use a 16 bit WB and enjoy it! :-)
oops forgot ... remove screen dragging and Drag/resize window with contents also. (beeing a 603e without SCSI)
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Framiga wrote:
its working!
OS4 starts using the 68K to load the bootloader (all 68K until now filesystem also) then reboots and since then only the PPC is used.
Brilliant!!!!! Thanks!
Framiga wrote:
Now start to reduce every eye candy like gradients and antialias, use a 16 bit WB and enjoy it! :-)
Well I can't install it yet since my buffered interface seems to be incompatible, so I need to order an IDE cable and then I can install it. Then the fun begins :-)
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moto
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ok perfect!
Once you have installed the whole AOS4, you can use your buffered interface.
It "seems" that the problem arise only during the installation (on some machines)
Theres a option to enable it.
look at the file SYS:Kickstart/KickLayout-A1200 at the line
; The IDE scsi.device can not autodetect IDEFix/IDEFix97/IDEFix Express
; IDE port doubler hardware. When you have such hardware installed,
; uncomment the following line by removing the leading semicolon,
; then the IDE scsi.device can use IDE drives on the second IDE port.
; CAUTION: Dont forget to add the semicolon again before removing the
; IDEFix or compatible IDE port doubler hardware or your machine may
; not boot anymore!
;
;MODULE Kickstart/A1200/ATAPIismajik
uncomment "MODULE Kickstart/A1200/ATAPIismajik" and it "should" work.
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Hmm, so if I could make an image of the CD, change that file, burn the CD and boot from that, could I use the buffered interface during installation?
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moto
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i don't think is possible since the problem with the buffered interface, is during the installation.
It worth a try!
Anyway during the installation only the first channel is seen (ID0 and ID1).
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I'll try it, since the "problem" seems to be just that it can't tell whether there is an IDEfix is there or not, so it is disabled. If you *know* there is one there, hopefully enabling it will allow you to use it during installation. I'll try it!
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moto
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moto
Further to my first post in your thread, I've amused myself by putting the file 'IDEfix' into the C drawer of the OS4 boot floppy disk. I then made the top of the floppys startup-sequence read like this:-
C:Assign T: Ram:
If exist C:IDEfix
C:IDEfix
EndIf
set MACHINE 'checkA4K'
After booting into the floppy my OS4 CD was then found as unit 2 on the secondary channel of my 4 way interface.
Just thought I'd share that with you :-D
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Thanks! Does it still work even after it has rebooted and actually tried to boot OS4 from the CD?
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moto
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Erm..... As stated in my previous I was experimenting using my A4000/060 as I don't have a CDrom on my A4000/PPC at the mo :oops:
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Oh ok. Well I built a CD image with all of the files from the OS4 CD except the A1200 kicklayout, then added a modified version of that file with the ATAPI device line uncommented. It's just finalising the CD then I'll try it and see if it works!
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moto
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Well that didn't work. Much as I hate to do it, I think I'm going to have to buy a 44->40->40 way IDE cable just to get the OS installed :roll:
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moto
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/
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sorry for the OT but i have slowness accessing here to AORG
Can you please test if trying to access here with the IP works for you?
http://68.90.68.98/
thanks
ps i get the cPAnel saying
ATTENTION!
If you are seeing this page instead of the site you expected, please contact the administrator of the site involved.
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Framiga wrote:
sorry for the OT
NP - there was a good chance you'd catch me on this thread ;-)
Framiga wrote:
but i have slowness accessing here to AORG
It's fine for me (England).
Framiga wrote:
Can you please test if trying to access here with the IP works for you?
http://68.90.68.98/
It works, but I also get that warning page (only when using the IP address though).
Edit - 7000 posts :-D
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moto
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ok thanks moto!
how are going your experiments! :-)
btw ... is your A1200 an Amiga Technologies a1200?
; Some A1200 from Amiga Technologies have a hardware problem.
; Or in fact some floppy drives designed for PCs have it.
; When disk.resource checks for the internal floppy drive it doesnt claim
; to be present. When you have such a model and you miss the DF0: device,
; uncomment the following line by removing the leading semicolon,
; then disk.resource will always report that DF0: exists and is a 3.5"
; drive when it could not be found.
;
;MODULE Kickstart/ATechA1200Fix
i don't think thats the problem, anyway interesting thread!
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Framiga wrote:
ok thanks moto!
NP! :-)
Framiga wrote:
how are going your experiments! :-)
I'm waiting for an IDE cable so I can get OS4 installed (without it I can't have a HDD and CD-ROM connected at the same time unless I use the IDEfix, which of course doesn't work).
Framiga wrote:
btw ... is your A1200 an Amiga Technologies a1200?
I don't know since it's in a tower. Is it shown on the mobo? Thanks for the info though. I'll keep trying to make a modified OS4 install CD to get around the problem, though my motivation to do so will probably disappear when I've got the OS installed ;-)
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moto
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"I don't know since it's in a tower. Is it shown on the mobo?"
unfortunately i never own an A1200 so i really don't know.
Better thing is to wait for the IDE adapter :-)
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Yeah that's probably going to be the easiest option. I've asked Amigakit to make me a 44 female -> 40 male cable which will allow me to plug any IDE cable in to the A1200. Should make things much easier!
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moto
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Right! I've got my 44 female -> 40 male IDE cable now (thanks Amigakit!) so I have connected a standard 40 way IDE cable to the A1200 directly to the motherboard and I can still use two devices. So I have now got a HDD and a CD-ROM connected to the Amiga without the need for the buffered interface. And guess what? It works! OS4 is now installing :-D
Still having problems with the BVision. It seems to be working as it doesn't use AGA when the BVision is connected, but I can't get a display up on the VGA monitor. It did work for a while, so maybe it just wasn't connected properly. It's disconnected now while OS4 is installing, and I'll try re-connecting it afterwards and try it again.
Thanks for all the help guys!
:pint:
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moto
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I gave the BVision connectors a clean (just blew in to them) and also noticed some thermal paste on the BVision board itself. Is this stuff electrically conductive? I wiped it off anyway, and made sure the BVision was firmly pushed on to the connector and screwed in, and when I booted from the OS4 CD, hey presto it worked! I'm now installing OS4 :-D
How do I find out what speed the PPC is? When I type "cpu" in to a shell in OS4 it just says it's a 603e. Is there a way to get more specific info?
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moto
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I believe a prog called Scout told me the speed of mine, but I'll check when I get the chance for you.
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Thanks! Scout is a 68k app and I have no idea how the 68k emulation functions in OS4. Will it be able to run inside the emulated 68020 processor and report on real hardware?
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moto
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Scout confirmed as after launching it and clicking on 'System' I'm seeing "PPC: 604e / 233Mhz"
I'm not running OS4 at the mo but it's worth giving it a try mate :-)
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use Scout for OS4 then! ;-) (is on Aminet)
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Moto
It appears that if you fully boot into OS4, do a warm reset and then hold both down both mouse buttons, you get some additional information at the 'Amiga Early Startup Control' screen.
Mine says:-
CPU: 604e V9.516 231 Mhz
L1 cache: 32K, L2 cache 0K
Memory: 64MB Frequency: 66 Mhz
The speed will be relevant to your question. It reminds me that I need to put in some more memory, as I've only got 22MB left after booting into OS4 :-)
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@Framiga
Thanks! I didn't know there was an OS4 version.
@A4000_Mad
I've been meaning to have a look at the new Early Startup screen, and I'm also curious to know what "Boot with no s-s" looks like now. I'll have another play later :-)
I did find out the speed through Scout, and it's a 166MHz PPC with an 040.
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
@A4000_Mad
I've been meaning to have a look at the new Early Startup screen, and I'm also curious to know what "Boot with no s-s" looks like now. I'll have another play later :-)
Actually, I haven't seen any new one. It's the same old one, but if you do the warm reset while keeping both mouse buttons held down, it has more info on the screen. I think it's probably just to do with the CSPPC being present as it happens when running OS3.1 with WarpOS too.
"Boot with no s-s" doesn't look any different either. In fact, when I use it with the Ultra Wide SCSI drive connected to the CSPPC, all commands appear to be not executable.
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AmigaOS4 for classic have its own early ss screen.
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How do you get to see it Framiga? (if I switch on while keeping both mouse buttons held down, I just see that usual 'Amiga Early Startup Control' screen)
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after a warm reboot from AOS4 (or right after the first reboot when you switchON the system).
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Thanks for that Framiga :pint:
So, what I said below was correct:-
It appears that if you fully boot into OS4, do a warm reset and then hold both down both mouse buttons, you get some additional information at the 'Amiga Early Startup Control' screen. Mine says:- CPU: 604e V9.516 231 Mhz L1 cache: 32K, L2 cache 0K Memory: 64MB Frequency: 66 Mhz
I just needed to click on 'Boot With No Startup-Sequence' after doing it. Now the commands are working fine 8-)
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another couple of interesting OS4 classic features:
with CTRL+ALT+ALT you can cold reboot (useful to switch between different OSs)
and (as you have noticed) the CSPPC Early Boot Menu, is available only after a cold reboot.
Quite everything is ignored after OS4 kernel is loaded.
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Framiga wrote:
with CTRL+ALT+ALT you can cold reboot (useful to switch between different OSs)
8-)
Thanks again. Because of that I might go for an OS3.9 and OS4 dual-boot system :-)
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you're welcome!