Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: uncharted on October 19, 2008, 01:35:29 PM
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Yesterday, I got my hands on one of the coolest pieces of tech on the planet - Powerful, faultlessly designed and engineered, sexy even.
But seriously, it doesn't even compare with how cool this (http://wookiechat.amigarevolution.com/sabremsn/SabreClassic.png) is.
Some days, I wonder why I still bother with Amiga stuff. This is not one of those days. :-)
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uncharted wrote:
Yesterday, I got my hands on one of the coolest pieces of tech on the planet - Powerful, faultlessly designed and engineered, sexy even.
Aren't you going to tell us what it was? :-)
uncharted wrote:
But seriously, it doesn't even compare with how cool this (http://wookiechat.amigarevolution.com/sabremsn/SabreClassic.png) is.
Some days, I wonder why I still bother with Amiga stuff. This is not one of those days. :-)
Nice if you like IRC and MODs I suppose :-P
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moto
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lo-res smileys?
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/atjtmo/jessicka/smiley_pirate.gif)
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I'm lost?
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spihunter wrote:
I'm lost?
Andy saw something recently which he felt was extremely cool, but less so than the screenshot he posted. Since we don't know what the reference object is, we are unable to estimate the level of coolness which he has attributed to the screenshot ;-)
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moto
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so what is so cool about the picture... why do your graphics look blocky?
i dont get it.
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It's a screenshot of the AGA theme for SabreMSN. I expect Andy is referring to the fact that you can use this software on an AGA Amiga. I do think that's quite cool ;-)
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moto
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I think AmigAIM on OS3.x is way cooler.
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@Moto
Well I deliberately decided not to mention the other "cool thing" as it might be a controversial thing around these parts and I didn't want to draw attention away from the real subject by attracting a bunch of narrow-minded idiots raving on about how they hate XYZ.
But seeing as you asked.. I got one of these (http://www.apple.com/uk/macbook/).
I genuinely found that screenshot to be way cooler. That looks great for a 16 colour screen running on 16-year old hardware. For all the shiny, swooshy effects that you get in the big 3 OSes these days, the hard work and attention to detail that people pushing the low-end show impresses me far more.
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Heh, I always liked the look of the hires screen modes on the Amiga. Nice smileys too.
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uncharted wrote:
But seeing as you asked.. I got one of these (http://www.apple.com/uk/macbook/).
Ok, I now officially hate you :-P I went to the Apple store today and had a play with the new MacBooks. I love the new trackpad, and they're seriously smart! Might have to sell my mum and get one. She's not doing me any favours anyway.
uncharted wrote:
I genuinely found that screenshot to be way cooler.
Hmm, ok, you have that and I'll have your MacBook ;-)
uncharted wrote:
That looks great for a 16 colour screen running on 16-year old hardware. For all the shiny, swooshy effects that you get in the big 3 OSes these days, the hard work and attention to detail that people pushing the low-end show impresses me far more.
I agree to an extent, but I also like the comforts of OS X :-D
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moto
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I have a nice shiny new MacBook Pro on order... my god... that is a thing of beauty...
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Yeah the Macbooks are nice, but i can't agree that with the price tag they are worth it. I have used a lot of computers and operating systems and honestly yeah the OSX is nice (at least the last two releases of it) but Mac is still over priced and since there really is no hardware distinction anymore all your buying is a regular PC with a different operating system. Personally i'd rather buy a used laptop and put SUSE on it lol.
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Which MODplayer is that? I've always been partial to EdPlayer, but it opens on its own screen which is a bit of an inconvenience with a PIV.
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amigakid wrote:
Yeah the Macbooks are nice, but i can't agree that with the price tag they are worth it. I have used a lot of computers and operating systems and honestly yeah the OSX is nice (at least the last two releases of it) but Mac is still over priced and since there really is no hardware distinction anymore all your buying is a regular PC with a different operating system. Personally i'd rather buy a used laptop and put SUSE on it lol.
It's the engineering that's gone into it and how good it looks that counts.
2 GPUs... 2.8Ghz Dual core CPU... 4Gig RAM... 320gig HD... LED backlit display... yeah the price works fine for me... Actually the single-unit aluminium case alone is worth the price for me...
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LoadWB wrote:
Which MODplayer is that? I've always been partial to EdPlayer, but it opens on its own screen which is a bit of an inconvenience with a PIV.
Looks like EaglePlayer (http://aminet.net/mus/play/Eagleplayer201.lha). Its one of the best players available for classic Amiga, along with DeliTracker II. But I don't remember if this EaglePlayer skin requires registration. Damn it looks old now, but I still have it installed on my AmigaOne.
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I've seen nothing flashy or cool this week... :-(
I had a nice beer with a couple of friends though :-D
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Can be the new pandora?
@amigakid
Im agree with you, macs are overpriced and tha same parts of hardware like pcs just with a "cool" case.
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amigakid wrote:
Yeah the Macbooks are nice, but i can't agree that with the price tag they are worth it.
While I myself feel that they are bit higher priced than they should (should be $200-300 less I think), unfortunately that only feels so when one considers the hardware inside.
For example, we think: Intel CPUs: ah, those are so cheap, they're everywhere. DDR RAM: super cheap. Hard drives: commodity. WiFi: what's new?
But the truth is, you're not paying for that when you are buying a Mac. Partially, you're paying for the superior Mac OS X experience, but beyond that, what you are trully paying for is innovation all over the board that's usually not bundled in a single "PC" (more correctly called a clone, because a Mac is a Personal Computer too).
For example, who in the industry uses all green tech for the materials of the laptop? Apple does. Who uses high-end aluminum parts that are crafted from a single block of aluminum, so as they are lighter and thinner? Apple does. Of course some other company might as well, BUT the key difference is that Apple measures distances in micro meters, not millimeters. What that means is that things fit perfectly, they also have very very accurate and slick design. You might not notice it right away, and certainly most people don't notice it consciously, but it's what makes people, overall, attribute that "WOW" factor (case and point, our original poster) when talking about the new Macs. And that's what's part of the price tag.
Now think back to the last time you visited a clone shop: when was the last time you wowed at a computer you saw? I personally don't recall my last time (although I probably have at some point - I know I did for Amigas).
And just to point out a little example of where the extreme industrial design and engineering used by Apple to make the WOW factor in their products: have you noticed how the older Macs that had a built-in camera had a little hole next to the lens for the "it's on" light? Well, the newer ones also have the "it's on" light, however they don't have a hole. Typically a clone manufacturer would put an LED in that hole and it would try to be flush with the surface, although most times a little bit of the plastic of the LED would be sticking out. Many such holes and protrusions and lines make things look "busy" and unclean. This means that mentally your brain has to deal with the extra "math" as it does line and edge detection and object recognition. What Apple did is create a new way of "etching" metal/aluminum so as to wear down the thickness of the material just enough so that light from an LED can come out, yet light from the outside won't penetrate the aluminum and thus your eye would be able to spot the hole. Thus your eye NEVER ses the hole or the LED, yet you see the "it's on" light when you need to! Talk about meticulous design. Once again: consciously, you wouldn't even think about this stuff, but your unconscious brain, mysteriously (until you read my explanation) would "feel better" while looking at a Mac.
Finally, when you get a Mac, you get almost the latest in technology but not only in their highest end models, but also some of the mid and low end models. For example in the new laptop series you'll get:
* LED backlit displays
* 802.11n WiFi
* Bluetooth + EDR
* multi-touch trackpad
* dual analog/digital output over the headphone jacks
* Gigabit Ethernet
* Firewire 800 on the bigger models (which for me gets over 50MB/sec to my external disks)
* most recent generation of Intel and NVidia chips & chipsets (1066MHz FSB for fast 2GB DDR3 RAM, 9400M iGPU)
* and in many cases industry-leading-moves such as the inclusion of the Mini Display Port (just as Apple was the very first to move entirely to USB instead of legacy ports, to include Firewire, and other new standards, thus ensuring future compatibility, guaranteed support and longer lifespan for the product).
* optional factory install SSD storage of course (don't forget, most people don't feel comfortable opening their > $1000 machines to add things, just in case they might void their warranty)
* 5 hours of usage
* iLife '08 (fantastic creativity software package)
* free shipping
* $100 coupon deal for printer
A quick search on Dell's site yielded this system for the same approximate price:
Dell XPS M1330 (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dydwtn4&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=productdetails~xpsnb_m1330)
If you ask me, I'd rather get the Macbook for that cash!
OH, and you get virtually "twice the computer" because you can also run Windows on it if you ever need to. That's a big deal, because you know what? You can't easily play Crisis on Mac OS X yet. However you also don't have anything on the Windows side close to such things such as: Delicious Library (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delicious_Library)
amigakid wrote:
Personally i'd rather buy a used laptop and put SUSE on it lol.
It's just not the same thing. Stop thinking that you're only buying raw hardware parts. You're buying a computing experience, which is DEFINITELY not the same for a SUSE user and a Mac user.
This same thinking can be applied to Amigas, because seriously, Amigas were just "PCs". Heck, most of the hardware was using identical components in many places (RAM, disks, CPUs, various non-custom chips, video chips, etc.). HOWEVER, the package (both hardware and software) differentiated the final result of the user experience.
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da9000 wrote:
* LED backlit displays
I think it's funny Apple just started using these. My 3-year old Sony has one. (Runs OS X pretty well, too.)
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At work I only but X-Serves, anyway someone decided they wanted a Dull server with Red Hat Enterprise instead, so we ordered it. Cost about the same as an XServe but no firewire 800, just 400!
I'm laying off the non-standard equipment at work, just give me Apple and I'm happy.
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/basic/drinks.gif)
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da9000 wrote:
For example, who in the industry uses all green tech for the materials of the laptop? Apple does.
:lol: No chemicals? No plastic? Not Chinese?
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(http://www.bobborum.com/cool_junk/photos_06/skull-06.jpg)
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I couldn't agree more with da9000......
like almost everything material in life...
You get as much as you paid for...
Mac are at most of the times (and that means not EVERYTIME) more expensive than a clone at the same speed.
But just ask yourself...
how much would I pay for the difference in operating systems (OSX vs Windows) how much more would I pay for the difference in materials that construct the products..
How much would I pay more for the design that goes into that..
and one thing thats its also a technological improovement...
How much would I buy for something smaller, lighter and more energy efficient...
I think after you ask that questions you will have the answare..
I agree, some people prefare chineese cubs (small bikes) insteed of a japaneese or an italian..
but that doesn't mean that its better because its cheaper.
and as I told you about "EVERYTIME"
build me a 8-core (2x4 cores) machine, get the costs associated with and then compare it to a mac pro...
I will not even mention the difference in quality of building and construction...
For every PC FAN... like it or not.. we use the same technology,
we do our job in ALMOST the same manner BUT.... difference is what create the winner from the looser.
Amigans! Have a NICE DAY! :-)
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tone007 wrote:
I think it's funny Apple just started using these. My 3-year old Sony has one. (Runs OS X pretty well, too.)
Apple has been using them for about a year now AFAIK. They are now a standard part, unlike other manufacturers. I'd be interested to know which exact model is your Sony so I could look up the info (are you sure you're not referring to X-brite or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossy_display ?). My bet is that it wasn't Sony's low to mid end model, but more of a high end model (was it in the $2000-3000 range?).
BTW, how much 3rd party software did you have to remove to get some of the HDD space back and have the computer running properly again? :-)
@adolescent:
Like every other company (and just like almost products you are using daily, yes, YOU), Apple also uses Chinese plastics and chemicals. The difference is that they try to use parts that contain the least of known hazardous materials, but which still offer the same or better quality. Read more here (and click on the "tabs" at the top for product design, etc.): http://www.apple.com/environment
One other important factor to consider is that Apple is sensitive to this matter and it's something they'll keep "in check". Don't expect any "dying from milk babies" problems from their camp. Now as to what Dell or HP or Acer use for their computers... I don't know, why don't you go ahead and use them and let us know in a few years :-)
@mingle: this is in response to your original post before you edited it:
This has nothing to do with fanboism, but more with facts (as they were presented and which you can easily double check on your own). It [the thread] has more to do with certain people getting their heads out of the sand, so as to allow some thoughts and ideas that could be truly beneficial to them and certainly not hurtful (why are you so threatened when someone mentions how excited and happy they are of another platform and when they try to provide logical details as to why? are you so unhappy with your choice that you can't let'em be happy? even if you're so unhappy, what's it got to do with their happyness and excitement?), get inside their dark, cloudy and F.U.D.-filled minds. That's what the original poster was hoping for, sharing of his excitement that he'd found a great computer, yet knew he'd be stereotyped immediately by the technically ignorant or mentally closeminded, thus devising his very clever and original post.
And before the stereotyping continues, let me say that I'm a very recent "switcher" and I've been on many other "camps" (Linux/UNIX, Windows/DOS) before coming to this one, so I certainly don't appreciate feedback or stereotyping from the inexperienced. If you've truly used a Mac, and you're hating it right now, then I'm all ears - I certainly want to know what would possible areas that with some improvement would help MY user experience.
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da9000 wrote:
tone007 wrote:
I think it's funny Apple just started using these. My 3-year old Sony has one. (Runs OS X pretty well, too.)
Apple has been using them for about a year now AFAIK. They are now a standard part, unlike other manufacturers. I'd be interested to know which exact model is your Sony so I could look up the info (are you sure you're not referring to X-brite or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossy_display ?). My bet is that it wasn't Sony's low to mid end model, but more of a high end model (was it in the $2000-3000 range?).
BTW, how much 3rd party software did you have to remove to get some of the HDD space back and have the computer running properly again? :-)
True, it wasn't a low end Sony. SZ series, which also has 2 GPUs as well (Intel and NVIDIA selectable by a switch,) and it's definitely LED backlit. (A MBP owning fanboy friend of mine drooled over it when I brought it over, I could tell I'd just made him terribly unhappy with his screen.)
System has always run properly for me, though I swapped out the original 100GB drive for a 250GB a couple months ago. Next up is a processor upgrade, though I think 2.33ghz C2D is as high as this system will go. I intend to see how many more years this system lasts me. If I get 5-6 years out of this ~$2000 machine, I think that was a pretty decent investment.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-Apple or anything, own(ed) a few myself, most recent however being a G4 Powerbook (primary computer for a year, even though the thing was a slug compared to everything else on the market.) I'm just more of a hardware guy and don't really care what OS I run, and Apple's hardware is just not interesting enough to me, though the new laptops are a step in the right direction. (those sticky matte black/white MacBooks put me way off, metal surfaces are the only way to go.. This 3 year old Sony still looks brand new, no cheesy worn-in spots or anything.)
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I think some people can't bear to think of others liking things that they don't. When they hear somebody talking about that thing, the only way they can come to terms with it is to assume that they are deluded, fanatic or stupid. It doesn't occur to them that other people are different to them, have different needs, and see value in different things to them.
It really surprises me to see this attitude here, since most of us have been on the receiving end of it when were derided for still using Amigas by people who would not allow themselves to be open to their benefits.
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moto
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da9000 wrote:
Apple has been using them for about a year now AFAIK. They are now a standard part, unlike other manufacturers.
Apple don't make screens.
BTW, how much 3rd party software did you have to remove to get some of the HDD space back and have the computer running properly again? :-)
Basic partitioning tools are free.
Like every other company (and just like almost products you are using daily, yes, YOU), Apple also uses Chinese plastics and chemicals.
I wonder what the difference is between Chinese plastics/chemicals and the stuff everyone else uses... hmmmmmm absolutely nothing? A lot of factories outside China use Chinese plastics.
The difference is that they try to use parts that contain the least of known hazardous materials, but which still offer the same or better quality.
Steve jobs told you that personally? The materials they use will be dictated by the laws regarding which materials they are allowed to use. Batteries for example contain all sorts of nasties,... Apple use exactly the same cells as everyone else because just like the screens they don't make them.
Don't expect any "dying from milk babies" problems from their camp. Now as to what Dell or HP or Acer use for their computers...
Whatever apple tells you in their marketing stuff; They use EXACTLY the same raw materials as everyone else, because just like everyone else they don't produce the parts that make up their machines.
This has nothing to do with fanboism, but more with facts (as they were presented and which you can easily double check on your own).
Seems very much like a case of fanboism here to me.
If you've truly used a Mac, and you're hating it right now, then I'm all ears -
I use a Mac... but Mac OS X is bloody awful, it's running Debian. Enough said. The build quality of the previous macbook generation is pretty shocking to be honest considering how much they cost.
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da9000 wrote:
For example, who in the industry uses all green tech for the materials of the laptop? Apple does.
ROFL! Apple green?! Moohaaha!
Man, Apple were recently one of the worst companies according to ecological and social standards (at least when considering their partner production plants in China).
Now they got a pot of green color and painted their house grenn and wanna make ppl think they were innovatibve in ecological standards.
There are really plenty reasons to actually like Apple, but their ecological standard definitively doesn't belong to that card.
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For me I gotta say I like using Apple computers but for them being better or trying to make a better computer for people is all bull, Apple is the best company for creating spin and they do it really really well, I was using Macs for around 12 years alongside my Miggy but due to the arrogance and sheer sillyness sometimes of the prices and repairs I am really going sour on Apple. Take for example the MacBook, it is a wonder of Apple design, they took the best parts and used the strongest parts that they could find, total and utter bollocks, my screen cracks 6 months into use, I did nothing, I call up Apple, they want 600 quid to replace the screen, I tell them that their products are good but I a not that stupid, so I buy the SAME screen from the internet for 100 quid and install it quickly .... now is it the Apple experience really worth 400 quid more .... don`t get me wrong, they have some nicely designed products but also they have some really badly designed products just they are better than your average PC.
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@ cantido
I wonder what the difference is between Chinese plastics/chemicals and the stuff everyone else uses... hmmmmmm absolutely nothing? A lot of factories outside China use Chinese plastics.
The Chinese have been known to STILL use lead in their "environmentally" friendly plastics....
A series of children toys sold in Norway (and probably the rest of the world too) was containing lead...
In Norwegian (sadly) (http://www.vg.no/helse/artikkel.php?artid=121357)
Some of these products are made in china.... (http://www1.vg.no/bildespesial/show/spesial.php?id=3318) My kid sister has some of those plastic animals shown on picture 5... made in china....
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pyrre wrote:
The Chinese have been known to STILL use lead in their "environmentally" friendly plastics....
And guess what... factories in the EU use materials sourced from China. I worked running injection molding machines between university stints and loaded bags of material with "Made in China" and hanzi written all over the bags into the hoppers... so I'm not just giving you "stuff I found on the internets"
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Apple Users? Bunch of Luzers!
Do Apple pays you any little money for making Mac evangelism on pages of Amiga only sites?
Go in Apple Stures and pay your money for overpriced Intel hardware with a cool design for rich computer noobs, and pay your money for a FREE OS (BSD) full of eyecandies and renamed as Mac OS X to get it copyrighted.
Apple are the jackals of the computer world.
They started by recycling chips in the trash and later they got the idea of icons and mouse from Xerox and never stopped since then.
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Que viva los dolces de ojos!
..or something.
Eyecandy is important, and a big part of why I purchased an '060 accelerator for my 1200.
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tone007 wrote:
Que viva los dolces de ojos!
..or something.
Eyecandy is important, and a big part of why I purchased an '060 accelerator for my 1200.
Only enhance graphics is important...
Eyecandies are for n00b2...
[EDIT]
And perhaps with eyecandies, the computer world entered in its BAROQUE age...
New OSes are full of eyecandies but with no real contents at all, and all these eyecandies are here just to justify the purchase of new pumped hardware...
What a waste of money and what a waste of good hardware...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroque
In informal usage, the word baroque can simply mean that something is "elaborate", with many details
The term "Baroque" was initially used with a derogatory meaning, to underline the excesses of its emphasis. In particular, the term was used to describe its eccentric redundancy and noisy abundance of details, which sharply contrasted the clear and sober rationality of the Renaissance.
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Most people who have any sort of imagination or creative soul prefer things to be aesthetically pleasing.
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Hahaha :lol: yeah because using out of date technology makes a computer so much more special!
I'm happy Apple now use the latest technology, now I can use the best tech in a machine that looks like a work of art.
Oh, and MacOS X isn't "just BSD with eye candy", I suggest reading up on the Coca application framework and the XNU kernel... Wikipedia will help here.
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@uncharted
Have you regretted that you made this thread?
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bloodline wrote:
Hahaha :lol: yeah because using out of date technology makes a computer so much more special!
I bought a Pegasos machine in 2005, its hardware it is of 2001/2002 and it is rock solid hardware, and only now it is beginning becaming out-of-date, but just because there is RAM DDR2, SATA HDDs, and PCI express bus out of there.
But If I will never buy a 3GIG RAM computer only to run unuseful Vista or spend more money for MAC just to have cool designed cases.
And in graphics and usability I can pi** on any baroque macquintosque...
I'm happy Apple now use the latest technology, now I can use the best tech in a machine that looks like a work of art.
This answer really demonstrates your presence here is unuseful...
Get lost in macholic sites, and do not bother us anymore if you are not an amigan anymore.
People like you who hail different techologies, just for their look appeal, is best to be lost than to stay in our community.
Oh, and MacOS X isn't "just BSD with eye candy", I suggest reading up on the Coca application framework and the XNU kernel... Wikipedia will help here.
Apple: Money from su*k*rs and OS from free...
Indeed it is a big business making an OS that easy and sell it overpriced by just adapting a kernel, a graphic interface, and a mac filesystem on an exsisting free multitasking OS...
EDIT:
And perhaps I believed in new Amiga-like hardware and I invested my money in it...
And am I happy with it?
YES!
I can testimoby my peggy is a cool computer with cool OS!
Who had the same courage here on this forum and purchased new Amiga machines to keep alive the platform?
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You talk a fair amount of rubbish. Whatever people choose to use, or like is their perosnal opinion and their choice.
If anyone should go and use another site its you. You bring nothing to a conversation and seem to know very little.
At least bloodline has decent knowledge and objective views.
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I agree with you uncharted. Pushing the low-end is great satisfaction. I got the same feeling after installing Amiga SYS 4 recently and made a jump from WB3.0. That’s kind of equivalent of moving from win 98 to vista. My old A1200 just shined of pride and capability. It was great.
This discussion, that is about to turn into full scale war, is completely pointless to me. Why? Because I hate Mac and love pc or vice versa. No. Because I care about Amiga.
I care about the vintage.
I care about AROS and MORPH OS.
And I care about the new Amigas and OS4 even if don’t have all of these machines and os’s.
PC and Mac is just beasts of burden.
My hope is that all the Amiga os’s move towards cheap x86 x64 hardware so more people can afford it. I have not dicided yet if I will go for a SAM.
I keep my powermachine(PC) in a closet with its own ventilation that suck out excess heat to the main chimney.
I don’t see it. I don’t hear it, despite roaring fans, and I don’t care how it looks. But it takes care of business.
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JJ wrote:
You talk a fair amount of rubbish. Whatever people choose to use, or like is their perosnal opinion and their choice.
If anyone should go and use another site its you. You bring nothing to a conversation and seem to know very little.
At least bloodline has decent knowledge and objective views.
We are on AMIGA.ORG and not on MAC.ORG
And perhaps what part of "This is an Amiga related forum" you did not understand?
So stay in topic with Amiga...
If you prefer Macintoshes and buy Mac hardware, well I congratulate with you, but then please post your mac apprecciation on Mac related sites.
We AMIGANS want to talk about Amiga here...
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This site has always allowed and welcomed discusssions about other OS/Hardware. This is usually supposed to be in the correct forums, and this thread has gone slightly OT.
If you want to be an amiga zealot with no logic that I suggest you hang arounf amigaworld.net. They will love you there
EDIT: Just for the Record , I have never owened anything made by apple. Or never used a MAC.
I wont but an ipod, but doesnt mean if other people choose to use them , and I dont, doesnt make them wrong.
And perhaps what part of "This is an Amiga related forum" you did not understand?
Sorry didnt realise you were a MOD on this site, oh wait there your not.
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@Raffaele
Ok, I do in some way agree with you... I love the Amiga, but you have to remember why I fell in love the Amiga. It was the best machine of its time.
The amiga is a retro hobby machine now, it supliments my serious computing needs. This site isn't an exclusive club, it's an inclusive club for those who need help with Amiga stuff or want to talk about amiga stuff... Regardless of wether or not people even own an Amiga any more.
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JJ wrote:
This site has always allowed and welcomed discusssions about other OS/Hardware. This is usually supposed to be in the correct forums, and this thread has gone slightly OT.
If you want to be an amiga zealot with no logic that I suggest you hang arounf amigaworld.net. They will love you there
I will welcome any other OS/hardware threads but I do not think that this forum is for CELEBRATE other OS/hardware, otherwise I never had registered here.
I want to talk in peace with people that share my same interests, and an Amiga topic site, is created for AMIGANS...
And perhaps, if you are so sure about that freedom of speech on machintosh sites, try to open a thread on Mac related forums, and say that Macs are overpriced and that you had preferred far better a MacOS on sale that could run on cheap PC hardware...
In vaste major of Mac related sites you will be kicked out and your thread will be completely removed to be sure that other people could not see it.
Such freedom of speech and such tolerant people...
Repeat myself if you people are Mac Luvers then stay on mac Luver sites.
This is an Amiga site and even If I am a fanboy I hav the right to share my Amiga interest with other Amiga fanboys AND I WANT NOT BE BOTHERED BY OCCULTE "BUY MACINTOSH" ADVERTISING HERE.
EDIT:
And perhaps regaqrding the person who opened this thread, it should not stay in Amiga General Chat.
If you believe that MacBook you purchased it is the best experience you had since Amiga, then you had posted it in Alternative OS section of this forum...
http://www.amiga.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10
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I like getting naked and rubbing myself with MACs....mmmmmmmmmmm it feels sooooooo good :-D :-D :-D
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Raffaele wrote:
I bought a Pegasos machine in 2005
And perhaps I believed in new Amiga-like hardware
This is Amiga.org, not Pegasos.org! What are you doing here?! Sure, that system is Amiga-like, in that it has a mouse and keyboard.
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@Raffaele
But I love technology... That love of technology got me into the Amiga... I'm not going to stop loving technology just because the Amiga died. Most of the Amiga scene was built around people who love technology, people I can relate to... They are still here and we still keep on top of the latest developments...
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I also love getting into a bath full of ipods. Oh my god heaven.
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The posting guidelines of Amiga.org mentions nothing about thread-hijacking, therefore everyone in here is ok according to the rules, although he knows well that he violates the nettique.
So, what else do we have here... Off-topic debate in the "--> AMIGA <-- General Chat" section, plus flamming. Fantastic!
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JJ wrote:
I like getting naked and rubbing myself with MACs....mmmmmmmmmmm it feels sooooooo good :-D :-D :-D
I wonder if yours is some regression to childish age? (http://www.m4d.it/forum/images/smilies/quindi.gif)(http://www.m4d.it/forum/images/smilies/asd.gif)
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No, just trying to point out, through the medium of humour, how ridiculous your posts are.
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tone007 wrote:
Raffaele wrote:
I bought a Pegasos machine in 2005
And perhaps I believed in new Amiga-like hardware
This is Amiga.org, not Pegasos.org! What are you doing here?! Sure, that system is Amiga-like, in that it has a mouse and keyboard.
Well, I am saving to purchase SAM440 + AmigaOS 4.1, so then I will demonstrate I invested twice in modern Amiga technologies...
While vaste majority here is nuthing than a bunch of nostalgics who are here on Amiga.org to cry about Amiga, and to ask suggestions on how they can emulate retrogaming.
Pathetic...
bloodline wrote:
@Raffaele
But I love technology... That love of technology got me into the Amiga... I'm not going to stop loving technology just because the Amiga died. Most of the Amiga scene was built around people who love technology, people I can relate to... They are still here and we still keep on top of the latest developments...
If you believe that Amiga is dead, then why are you here?
We are here beacuse Amiga is alive, being sold on the market, and still evolving despite the poor amount of money that actual firms could invest in it...
Sure we are not full of money like Apple that trains and refunds the Macintosh computers subsidiary with the money gained due to enormous selling of IPODs... :roll:
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Raffaele wrote:
Well, I am saving to purchase SAM440 + AmigaOS 4.1
And you want to talk about Apple charging ridiculous prices for hardware... That SAM440 board makes just about anything put out by Apple look like a bargain.
Keep your snobbery, and let the Apple snobs keep theirs!
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JJ wrote:
No, just trying to point out, through the medium of humour, how ridiculous your posts are.
You pervert...
Trying to point your view by rubbing yourself with poor underage Mac computers that couldn't self defense... :oops:
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tone007 wrote:
Raffaele wrote:
Well, I am saving to purchase SAM440 + AmigaOS 4.1
And you want to talk about Apple charging ridiculous prices for hardware... That SAM440 board makes just about anything put out by Apple look like a bargain.
As Sam440 runs AmigaOS 4.1 any price is a bargain... :roll:
Keep your snobbery, and let the Apple snobs keep theirs!
Yes, you got the point...
Keeping the snobbery...
I keep my snobbism HERE on an AMIGA site.
They can keep THEIR snobbish on THEIR MAC RELATED SITES... :rtfm:
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The coolest thing ive seen this week is how some fanboys destroys the post of someone.
:)
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Raffaele wrote:
Apple Users? Bunch of Luzers!
Such an inflammatory remark, clearly designed to provoke.
Amiga FTW.
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tone007 wrote:
Raffaele wrote:
Apple Users? Bunch of Luzers!
Such an inflammatory remark, clearly designed to provoke.
Amiga FTW.
This is more than provoking... :oops:
This is my personal point of view as an Amigan Point of View in an Amigan related chat section...
And being a Amiga complete business site, then another person who is clearly a macintosh user came here abruptly saying that the coolest things he had seen this week is his new brand MacBook that gives him more appeal than any Amiga he had...
(Are we sure this person really got any Amiga?)
So I am free to answering to Mac users as they deserve to be threaten...
It is they provoking us Amigans here on OUR SITE...
I had had provoked if I had said that Mac Luzers are Loozers on a Mac site...
But if you noticed that, we are on Amiga site, so I am not guilty...
And I am not guilty twice...
Because:
1) First! I had not started this thread by gloryfing Macintoshes, but just answering to some Mac users acting as agent provocateur...
2) Second! And perhaps beacuse Mac users really are l00zers forever noobz and they stink anytime. :lol: :lol: :lol:
And it is not their guilty... After all they are only Mac used-users, so being sucking it is natural for them... :-P
Aw? Apple usews? Poow widdle s(n)obbing cweatuwes!
Amiga Rulezz! 8-)
:-P :lol:
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ummmmm, The persone who started this thread has been around here alot longer than you , and contributed a lot more, same goes for bloodline.
Nobody just turned up, and started loving Macs.
I would imagine the majority of people on here would rather you would go away. I know I do
@ Mods
Anyone around who could give this guy a warning. Thinks he deserves it. Hes sounding more like starke by the second.
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@ Mods
Anyone around who could give this guy a warning. Thinks he deserves it. Hes sounding more like starke by the second.
Yes I agree...
I admit I deserve a warn...
But also I ask the moderators to move this thread on Alternative Operating Systems section of the forum where it should stay since the beginning, or even if they can close this thread as it celebrates other platforms in spite of the policy of the forum site regarding Amiga related topics. :rtfm:
I am waiting for any warn, and I am waiting here firmly and in complete honesty.
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While vaste majority here is nuthing than a bunch of nostalgics who are here on Amiga.org to cry about Amiga, and to ask suggestions on how they can emulate retrogaming. Pathetic...
Gosh! ...and I've just purchased a second A3000D.... :-(
The coolest thing I've seen this week is a refrigerator
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Jambalah wrote:
While vaste majority here is nuthing than a bunch of nostalgics who are here on Amiga.org to cry about Amiga, and to ask suggestions on how they can emulate retrogaming. Pathetic...
Gosh! ...and I've just purchased a second A3000D.... :-(
So you are not in the nostalgic bunch and you got all my respect for your cool A3000D... :-D
The coolest thing I've seen this week is a refrigerator
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well, now THAT sounds quite more cool and far more useful than a Macintosh... :lol: :-P
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There is no moderation on this thread. Its an UFC cage thread it seems.
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Raffaele wrote:
While vaste majority here is nuthing than a bunch of nostalgics who are here on Amiga.org to cry about Amiga, and to ask suggestions on how they can emulate retrogaming.
Pathetic...
I call that keeping the Amiga platform alive...
bloodline wrote:
@Raffaele
But I love technology... That love of technology got me into the Amiga... I'm not going to stop loving technology just because the Amiga died. Most of the Amiga scene was built around people who love technology, people I can relate to... They are still here and we still keep on top of the latest developments...
If you believe that Amiga is dead, then why are you here?
We are here beacuse Amiga is alive, being sold on the market, and still evolving despite the poor amount of money that actual firms could invest in it...
[/quote]
We are all that keeps the Amiga alive by still remembering it. But as a serious computer platform it is dead, even my Mobile Phone is light years beyond anything the Amiga has ever achieved.
I'm here because I still love the platform, I lvoe the community and I like to help out users set up classic Amiga environments... either Emulation and/or real/FPGA hardware...
The new MacBook is lovely, it evokes everything I loved about my first Amiga... get over it.
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Amiga = Retro computing.
That's a given, we all love to play with the Amiga much as you would tinker with a classic automobile. It's fun, it's a hobby, get over it.
We all have our favourites in current technology, and we seem to be fairly evenly divided between MS Windows and OS X, with a few Linux folks thrown in. That's a different thing entirely.
Fourteen years ago the company that produced the Amiga died and it's been up to us, the retro-enthusiasts, to keep the Amiga alive. THe Amiga is never going to compete with Mac/PC/Linux and Mac/PC/Linux are never going to compete with the Amiga, those days ended way back in the last century...
(http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/pirate3.gif)
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persia wrote:
Amiga = Retro computing.
That's a given, we all love to play with the Amiga much as you would tinker with a classic automobile. It's fun, it's a hobby, get over it.
Surely, but I was tinkering about with this classic automobile and I found out things that, if applied to modern computers, speed them up tremendously.
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@ raffaele
You clearly hate the mac and its users.
However, have you ever tried a mac?
Most mac users on this site is or was hardcore amigans back in the day, and some still are.
But to my point. I stopped using amiga in 1999 when i bought a pc. my first pc. Today i have a relatively good pc. It can do most jobs a mac can do. with a similar result.
But the mac cannot play the same games as a windows machine can. (with a few exceptions)...
However.
At a job i had at a youth center, there was a mac.
It was purely purchased for video editing purposes.
I am not going into details. However.
Seeing how the icon of my usb pendrive showed up on the desktop.
I got a sudden flashback to my good old amiga days.
My guess is the mac os is as close as you ever will get to a modern os running on modern hardware. and still being developed...
Sadly, it cannot run amiga software. If it could. i would convert in a heartbeat. disregarding the prices completely..
other than that. i don't really like the mac os. mostly because i have not familiarized myself with it...
And i have no use of it...
But i respect it.
(pew...breathe)
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The coolest thing I've seen this week was a burning heap of Apple zealots, almost as cool as a heap of burning Atari zealots back in the day.
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AmigaMance wrote:
@uncharted
Have you regretted that you made this thread?
Very much so. Perhaps people can see why I didn't mention the 'other thing' in my original post.
The irony of course is that the whole point of the thread was how cool Amiga stuff can be in comparison with the latest stuff. I was saying that I found the SabreMSN piccy COOLER than the MacBook. I guess some people are too {bleep}ing stupid to read something properly.
Some days, I wonder why I still bother with Amiga stuff. This is not one of those days. :-)
Today is a different day to yesterday. :-(
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pyrre wrote:
@ raffaele
You clearly hate the mac and its users.
However, have you ever tried a mac?
I tried Mac OS upto 7 on original machines and emulated on Amiga and it never impressed me...
A cooperative multitasking OS overestimated by newspapers and mac-boy evangelists...
I used Macintoshes at University (there is a student room full of iMacs G3 here) and these computers are all PPG G3 clocked at 600 MHz running MacOS 9...
Something like this:
(http://cowmug.ca/Images/EmacLabPict.jpg)
This wannabe OS really slowed down the PPC 600 and made such a powerful processor to seat on its own a**...
And I asked to myself why this OS was soooo slooow...
Well... So good was the so called MacOS upto 9...
I wonder why they do not left PPC in favour of Intel processors in the time of MacOS 9... Such a turtle OS had had received sure benefit if running on an intel processor running at twice clock than PPC.
Also I found frustrating using a standard italian Macintosh keyboard because all Mac italian keyboards are QZERTY as ancient typewriters... What a kind of strange fashion! LOL! :roll:
And the MacOS keyboards had only "Backspace" key and lacked of "CANC" key :crazy:
The Mac was not mine (It belonged to the university), as if I were were a "desperate Macinthosh housewuser" I had bought a standard multistandard USB Logitech keyboard (more cheap than a standard italian QWERTY layout based Mac ORIGINAL keyboard) because I heard that fortunately even MacOS 9 could had used it...
Sure USB Logitech Keyboard had the benfits of correct computer keyboard layout with all keys at their place...
And I tried various times Apples MacOS X with Intel Core Duo at Apple corners in electronic stores...
Again nothing impressive except than Eyecandies...
I wonder if all the power of an Intel core duo is used to keep a graphical interface enough speed to let MacDock zoom on icons?
I tried some applications such as garageband and the tool to make photos with internal camera...
Again nothing impressive...
But honestly I find garageband was a tool enough worthing the 120 euro of MacOS price...
Enough worthing for a Mac user, because programs like Audio Evolution on Amiga costs just a fraction of 120 euro...
Sure I found Standard Windows XP installation at a first use on newer machines more light and more performing than MacOS X even in mouse movements and response...
Ah yes... You can also spot any Bluetooth device hanging around the Macintosh within X meters in the electronic store...
HOW COOL, HOW COOL!
Very useful if you want to send a message to a beautiful girl who left open bluetooth on her cell phone.
Is just that the MacOS X power?
Did it deserves such an amount of Core duo power? :crazy:
Seeing how the icon of my usb pendrive showed up on the desktop.
I got a sudden flashback to my good old amiga days.
My Pegasos reads USB pens too... So what?
And it gives me same Amiga appeal than old days on a modern hardware with decent OS.
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Another cool thing I saw was a burning heap of anti-Apple-zealots.
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persia wrote:
Amiga = Retro computing.
That's a given, we all love to play with the Amiga much as you would tinker with a classic automobile. It's fun, it's a hobby, get over it.
We all have our favourites in current technology, and we seem to be fairly evenly divided between MS Windows and OS X, with a few Linux folks thrown in. That's a different thing entirely.
Fourteen years ago the company that produced the Amiga died and it's been up to us, the retro-enthusiasts, to keep the Amiga alive. THe Amiga is never going to compete with Mac/PC/Linux and Mac/PC/Linux are never going to compete with the Amiga, those days ended way back in the last century...
(http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/pirate3.gif)
If you believes that, why are you hanging around on Amiga sites?
We real loyal Amigans are more often seeing to the future than crying on a glorious past...
It is a long road ahead to catch again the mainstream, but all three Amiga systems, MorphOS, AmigaOS and AROS are doing little but significant steps.
That counts, and not nostalgia...
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I like your thinking Raffaele. I also believe in a future for the three.
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odin wrote:
Another cool thing I saw was a burning heap of anti-Apple-zealots.
Well defending amiga fierce from ravenous rampage of Windoze users and Macholic users is just self defence of the platform we choosen, and not zealotry...
We perfectly know what Amiga lacks, and we are figthing for a more better stable and usable platform.
Now it is too simple and offending if anybody came here on Amiga.org and saying you/he have/has seen coolest things on other platforms, just because on other platforms there are enough money to develop coolest thiongs easy...
It is easy to develop coolest things on Windows, if you hav 95% of the market and Micro$oft behind your shoulders...
It is easy for Apple to develop new machines as all its revenues are coming from IPOD market...
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i want to get an old g4 mac tower case, put pc guts into it and run aros on it :-D
apple does make some pretty stuff, never liked the classic os or saw the point in the new one over a good linux distro.
just need a few more things for aros and i can continue to ignore apple and ignore ms a bit more :-D
oh wait i stepped into a flame war :-o ummm XP rulz :flame:
>me ducks behind all the dead horses that seem to be piling up gaaa this one stinks what about that flashy new vista horse :-P
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I saw an ad yesterday on a little used two shaded gray compac desktop. p3 800mhz, usb, network, gpu. I thought what a little perfect AROS machine. Well, price? (Please sit down) 28 Euros. The casing even matched the mithrandir wallpaper in AROS. As soon as AROS gets the browser....
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Mac never has a demoscene, no presence in partys... this is no good for a platform (in my opinion of course).
My experience with mac is very short, i bought one when macmini ppc was released, g4 with 256mb of ram comes with panther 10.3 (too funny the feline names for OSs).
10.3 with 256mb runs aceptable except when load some apps becomes slow, people says... install a 512mb dimm and 10.3 fly... after with 10.4 the same... install 1gb dimm and 10.4 fly... now with 10.5... put 2gb or more!... where? when? macmini ppc just accept 1gb of ram. This in a computer with a years, seems very sad.
At least morphos is here to rescue macminis :-)
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kickstart wrote:
10.3 with 256mb runs aceptable except when load some apps becomes slow, people says... install a 512mb dimm and 10.3 fly... after with 10.4 the same... install 1gb dimm and 10.4 fly... now with 10.5... put 2gb or more!... where? when? macmini ppc just accept 1gb of ram. This in a computer with a years, seems very sad.
At least morphos is here to rescue macminis :-)
Yes, its insanity, the same with my OS Windows.
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uncharted wrote:
@Moto
Well I deliberately decided not to mention the other "cool thing" as it might be a controversial thing around these parts and I didn't want to draw attention away from the real subject by attracting a bunch of narrow-minded idiots raving on about how they hate XYZ.
I've never seen that - what's more likely IME is you get a flood of posts saying how Apple are the best thing ever, and being "narrow-minded" raving how they hate PCs. And indeed, these are the sorts of posts you got after this.
At that point it's fair game to argue against it - and disagreeing with a claim doesn't make one narrow-minded, I'd say it's more narrow-minded not to want to hear anyone else's views...
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@Raffaele:
I had had provoked if I had said that Mac Luzers are Loozers on a Mac site...
So an Amiga user/fan cannot have a mac... what load of rubbish....
It is easy for Apple to develop new machines as all its revenues are coming from IPOD market...
Build yourself a revenue income then, what's Apple fault again, making money? :roll:
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Raffaele wrote:
New OSes are full of eyecandies but with no real contents at all, and all these eyecandies are here just to justify the purchase of new pumped hardware...
What a waste of money and what a waste of good hardware...
I first witnessed this in a Mac mag at the time of MacOS 8, that did a how-to on creating 32-bit icons. 32-bit, when i was running an 8 color magic wb theme that smoked in terms of responsiveness. At the same time I was learning 3D rendering in Cinema$d in Amiga format. So thats what the "creative mac" types do with their time: create slow resource-hogging icons. And most of the time the icons give you little clue as to what they represent, create visual clutter and generally slow your work flow in addition to slowing up the hardware performance.
Thats why Lightwave all versions use buttons with text rather than pics and an 4-8 color interface. Thats why I use MagicWB on a 256 color cgx 1024x768 with dock buttons with text only, and I always configure text buttons rather than pics if I can. people have forgotten that form follows function: if it works well for you it will look fine.
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cicero790 wrote:
kickstart wrote:
10.3 with 256mb runs aceptable except when load some apps becomes slow, people says... install a 512mb dimm and 10.3 fly... after with 10.4 the same... install 1gb dimm and 10.4 fly... now with 10.5... put 2gb or more!... where? when? macmini ppc just accept 1gb of ram. This in a computer with a years, seems very sad.
At least morphos is here to rescue macminis :-)
Yes, its insanity, the same with my OS Windows.
i have a feeling that change amongst users is coming as evidenced by the vista debacle. most users are now second generation at least, so many have been through the hardware upgrade to use xp, and now they are saying no to vista because other than eye candy, they see no advantage, and worse, it does everything slower than xp. We now have multi-core systems running at ghz speed with gb of rame amazing gfx chips and we still gotta wait to open a window on screen WTF?
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@Raffaele
Because I like retro. It reminds me of the days of my youth. And, and, and I can use the Amiga without fear of doing work 'cause I could do anything resembling work even if I wanted to. It's a chance to relive the heady days of the eighties, when computing was young and you had to do without so many of the modern conveniences.
The Amiga is the computer equivalent of camping out under the stars.
(http://www.prophecyfellowship.org/images/smilies/smiley-channel.de_camping001.gif)
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@Raffaele
Did you even read the initial post? It had nothing at all to do with Mac fanboyism. Get down from your soapbox and stop acting like a three year old throwing a tantrum. We're adults here, so start behaving like one.
In vaste major of Mac related sites you will be kicked out and your thread will be completely removed to be sure that other people could not see it.
Doesn't that itself say something about the quality of this community, well until the likes of you showed up and ruined it for everybody else. Again, it all goes back to PROPERLY reading the original post, had you done that, you'd have realised that it had nothing to do with Macs being superior in the first place.
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@ raffaele
Your pegasos. how modern is it?
quad core cpu @ 2.8ghz, 8 gigabyte ram, two gfx cards in an sli mode pushing it to the very fastest graphics possible with todays technology?
Like bloodline i am a technology geek...
I just like technology. Anything...
of course, anything i see any use for...
(bluetooth, you can keep that to yourself. i cant see any use for it on a computer. for my phone and handsfree... mmm.. ok..)
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da9000 wrote:
Like every other company (and just like almost products you are using daily, yes, YOU), Apple also uses Chinese plastics and chemicals. The difference is that they try to use parts that contain the least of known hazardous materials, but which still offer the same or better quality. Read more here (and click on the "tabs" at the top for product design, etc.): http://www.apple.com/environment
One other important factor to consider is that Apple is sensitive to this matter and it's something they'll keep "in check". Don't expect any "dying from milk babies" problems from their camp. Now as to what Dell or HP or Acer use for their computers... I don't know, why don't you go ahead and use them and let us know in a few years :-)
They're sensitive to it because they received the worst environmental ratings of the US manufacturers for the last several years. I agree they've turning things around quite a bit, but you can't say they're using "all green" technology. The technology changes you're talking about are only in the brand new MacBooks. iMacs still have the same old BFRs, PVC, and mercury filed TFTs, etc. iPods are disposable, and AFAIK, there isn't a model that has an user removable battery for proper disposal.
Here's their ranking in 2007 (when Steve decided to go green):
(http://www.greenpeace.org/international/assets/graphics/guidegraph430)
Link to current rankings: (Could not embed the 9th edition since it's available as a SWF object only, not a picture..)
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/campaigns/toxics/electronics/how-the-companies-line-up
I'll give them credit when they actually implement everything they say they will. Until then they're doing much less than Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, Acer, etc.
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I come back from AmiWest where there was so much friendship and good times, to this crap.
They say ignorance is bliss, so I guess there are a few here that must be very happy all the time. I will leave it to all of you to choose which ones are so "blissful", but this kind of thread is so unproductive.
Amiga.org is a great place to visit (usually), let's keep it that way.
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uncharted wrote:
@Moto
Well I deliberately decided not to mention the other "cool thing" as it might be a controversial thing around these parts and I didn't want to draw attention away from the real subject by attracting a bunch of narrow-minded idiots raving on about how they hate XYZ.
But seeing as you asked.. I got one of these (http://www.apple.com/uk/macbook/).
I genuinely found that screenshot to be way cooler. That looks great for a 16 colour screen running on 16-year old hardware. For all the shiny, swooshy effects that you get in the big 3 OSes these days, the hard work and attention to detail that people pushing the low-end show impresses me far more.
That is cool... several years ago, I waited for OS4.0 and some hardware to come out of Amiwest, nothing came and I decided to give up the wait and finally buy a Mac... In the world of Wintel, it is the closest I can get to the Amiga.... However, I have found 10.5 to be so plagued by bugs. If I did not have so much software installed, I would go back to Tiger!
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My apologies to those wishing the thread would die, but I won't do you that favor just yet. Some people, or rather, cranks, NEED to be put to their proper place, because god forbid, if they don't and they end up in a position of power (by becoming louder-mouthed than anyone else) they can wreak havoc and cause a lot more damage and pain and suffering as their ill-formed, erroneous, unbased hatred and misinformation will pollute everyone else.
@tone007:
You are correct about the Sony laptops. The Sony TX was the first to have a LED-lit LCD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAIO
Anyways, I never claimed Apple was the first, but that Apple uses them as standard parts, more so than other companies which keep them for the high-end models and thus are extra.
Lastly, even though I didn't like the non-metal Macs myself, I do think a large amount of the population does. Unfortunately they had problems with the materials on the first generation. However I know they've been replacing all those within warranty without questions asked, and even multiple times for the same customer. The discussion forums at apple.com are full of such evidence.
@cantido:
You don't seem as much of a crank as the Raffale person, although you seem on the edge, so let me set you straight so you don't go off on a tangent like our italiano amigo. The quoted text is yours.
"Apple don't make screens."
Duh. I said Apple has been using them. Who said anything about them making screens?
"Basic partitioning tools are free."
I was talking about bloatware. Need to read some more there bud.
"I wonder what the difference is between Chinese plastics/chemicals and the stuff everyone else uses... hmmmmmm absolutely nothing? A lot of factories outside China use Chinese plastics."
Once again you didn't understand my sentence. I said Apple uses the same Chinese materials, HOWEVER they also check to make sure the Chinese aren't duping them, because otherwise they wouldn't get EPEAT certifications. Furthermore, what people who are cranks and thus outsiders to the rest of society don't understand is that if Apple claims in their presentation events (ex: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/specialevent1008/) that they use such and such materials which are safe and then those statements are found to be false (ex: if materials said to be safe are proven to be unsafe) they get SUED BIG TIME BY LAWYERS. They can't lie without repercussions. Only the mafia doesn't count on repercussions. And Microsoft.
"Steve jobs told you that personally?"
Actually he did: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/specialevent1008/
And unlike you, he has some reputation to uphold and millions of very rich stockholders which will take him to court if he lied.
"The materials they use will be dictated by the laws regarding which materials they are allowed to use. Batteries for example contain all sorts of nasties,... Apple use exactly the same cells as everyone else because just like the screens they don't make them."
Yes, I never claimed they use alien technology, and neither does Apple: nobody claimed that they use safer batteries. Their green tech is specifically listed in the keynote. See it to understand what materials we're talking about.
"They use EXACTLY the same raw materials as everyone else, because just like everyone else they don't produce the parts that make up their machines."
You under the false assumption that the world is made of all equal parts. It's not. They can CHOOSE to tell the Chinese companies: use plastic X instead of plastic Y. Just like most companies today say: use ROHS materials instead of non-ROHS. Make sense?
And as for marketing, we talked previously about getting sued if you're a big company and you LIE. Perhaps cranks are used to it, but in the real world lies cost.
"Seems very much like a case of fanboism here to me."
No, it actually seems much like a case of blind Amiga zealotry by clueless cranks. I've listed factual information which you can easily check online for yourself. None of the counter arguments include any factual information, but rather opinions, and misinformed at best.
"I use a Mac... but Mac OS X is bloody awful, it's running Debian. Enough said."
Yes, now you've totally convinced me! You definitely use a Mac. Should I start laughing now?
And if I may give you the benefit of the doubt, what is so bloody awful about it? Indulge me...
"The build quality of the previous macbook generation is pretty shocking to be honest considering how much they cost."
I don't entirely agree with this sentence because it's a BLANKET statement: too general. More correctly: they had problems with the plastics (ex: wrist pad area discoloration). There's no denying that, but the rest of the machines were quite problem free. Also keep in mind that Mac users are quite vocal and even if a small percentage have the problem, it will be heard.
@zylesea:
I see another crank here.
"ROFL! Apple green?! Moohaaha!"
I was using the term green generically and not for everything that Apple uses or HAS used.
"Man, Apple were recently one of the worst companies according to ecological and social standards (at least when considering their partner production plants in China)."
Really?? Point to your sources that say this.
Let me save you the trouble: you are probably referring to the Greenpeace fiasco. Please educate yourself and stop spreading F.U.D. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Greenpeace <-- read the "Greener Electronics campaign" and quit misquoting unbased "research" from a biased and corrupt organization.
"Now they got a pot of green color and painted their house grenn and wanna make ppl think they were innovatibve in ecological standards.
There are really plenty reasons to actually like Apple, but their ecological standard definitively doesn't belong to that card."
Actually there is a reason here in the USA, and it's called the EPEAT: http://www.epeat.net
They awarded Apple the Gold standard. That's one more reason for you to like Apple - unless, of course, you still believe all the F.U.D. that your envious of Apple sources are feeding you.
@ami_junki:
"my screen cracks 6 months into use"
Yeah, stop banging it on your head. Screens break, they're made of glass and plastics. Apple never said they made or used bullet-proof screens. Of course they denied your claim if you were responsible for the damage or it wasn't covered! Any sane company would do the same! Get over yourself and be realistic: *ALL* manufacturers abide by more or less the same warranty rules.
Once again, the point about the user experience is not once you DAMAGE the freagging product. It's when you use the product according to the conditions set forth within the warranty rules. Jeez, how much fact-bending hatred do you guys have?!?!?! I'd like to see you claim that Dell ought to replace your cracked LCD screen just because.
You might feel at home (in the wrong sort of way) with this site: http://notalwaysright.com/
@Raffaele:
Just in case you're still not sure what you see in the mirror each morning, here's a clue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_(person)
Oh and something more: since you really believe I have nothing to do with Amigas, please Amiga-fy me: I challenge you to give me your Amigas for FREE so I can become converted. Yes, I'll take that Pegasos II as well! Come on, prove to us how much of an avid Amigan you are and that you want to spread Amigadome everywhere. Help convince and infidel (me) that Amigas are the best: give me your Amiga hardware! And I'll even spare you the pain: I won't give you a SINGLE of my beautiful Macs! :-D Deal?
PS. Thanks for posting Mac photos on this forum! Excellent way to advertise Macs! :-) Oooh they're such beautiful sexy amigas! Chikitas! (OK, to be honest, I didn't really like the first iMac design - not for myself at least).
@kickstart:
Yes, the Mac never really had a demoscene and I also agree it's not good for the platform. HOWEVER, what idiots don't know is that it's not related to the machines or the OS. As we (demosceners) all know, almost EVERY machine can be a demo machine. I'm sure we've all seen C64 demos kick the pants out of even PC demos. The difference with the Mac is the culture. It's a mostly American-only platform and since the demoscene is very strong outside of the US, it never really got attracted to the Mac. However most "art scenes" or "publishers' scenes" are saying the same for non-Mac platforms, because afterall Desktop Publishing was the Mac's scene. Furthermore, I've met diehard Mac demosceners and from Germany none the less!! Of course one has to have an open mind to be able to see and be a part of that.
As for your other comments, let's just say it won't be very beneficial that I reply at this point.
@mdwh2:
"I've never seen that - what's more likely IME is you get a flood of posts saying how Apple are the best thing ever, and being "narrow-minded" raving how they hate PCs."
Your density or denseness must exceed that of a black hole, right? The posts were NOT about people hating PCs, but rather people hating Macs "just becasue". After reading Raffaele's spews, you should have gotten a hint, not?
@pixie:
"Build yourself a revenue income then, what's Apple fault again, making money?"
Your quote was against the tool's comment, and you are very correct in your pointed question! In fact anyone with the ability to read English would be able to see that Macs are a SIGNIFICANT part of Apple's revenue and not just iPods:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/07/21results.html
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/04/23/apple-earnings-mac-sales-surge-iphones-not-so-much
One can simply do the math (millions of units times a median price) and see that the Mac is a huge part of Apple's revenue.
Of course those who are ignorant don't anything other than: 1) hatred of Apple (they don't know why, but the clone scene has done a good job) and 2) iPods. They are clueless as to all the awesome technologies coming out of Apple.
You tell them multicore CPU + SLI video cards and all they can think of is playing FPS games with other saliva dripping, pimple popping, YouTube-watching {bleep} teenagers, instead of something as awesome as OpenCL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCL) and GCD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Central_(technology)). Where's something similar in Windows, Linux or even in the Amiga world?
@adolescent:
While well intentioned, your post has fallen victim to F.U.D.. I pointed out some links earlier, but here's the jist of the great Greenpeace fiasco (copied from Wikipedia - read it carefully and follow the links, there's a LOT to learn that you never knew because you've only seen one side of the story - full link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Greenpeace):
Greener Electronics campaign
In August 2006, Greenpeace released a "Guide to Greener Electronics," which ranked fourteen consumer electronics vendors in environmental issues. Greenpeace encouraged manufacturers to clean up their products by eliminating hazardous substances and to take back and recycle their products responsibly once they become obsolete.
The Guide to Greener Electronics[30] stated "the ranking is important because the amounts of toxic e-waste is [sic] growing everyday and it often ends up dumped in the developing world. Reducing the toxic chemicals in products reduces pollution from old products and makes recycling safer, easier and cheaper." It ranked Nokia and Dell near the top, but essentially gave failing grades across the industry, ranking Toshiba thirteenth, and Apple Computer in eleventh place out of the fourteen brands. The report singled out Apple for its low rank, saying: "Already, many of the companies are in a race to reach the head of the class - that is, except for Apple, who seems determined to remain behind rather than be the teacher's pet we'd hoped for." This caught the attention of tech media news sites, and was widely reported. Greenpeace gave Nintendo a score of 0.3 / 10 is based on the fact that Greenpeace has almost no information on the company, which by Greenpeace's grading system, automatically results in a zero for the affected categories.
Daniel Eran of RoughlyDrafted Magazine criticized the guide in an article,[31] saying the Greenpeace guide's "ranking puts far more weight upon what companies publicly say rather than what they actually do. It is also clear that Greenpeace intended the report more as an attention getting stunt than a serious rating of corporations' actual responsibility." In response, Greenpeace attacked Roughly Drafted's credibility, pointing out that it has in the past been called "the lunatic fringe of Mac fandom" by other bloggers after comparing the cost of Windows and Mac OS X.[32]
It is in fact alleged that Greenpeace has had no factual evidence, instead relying on unsubstantiated official company information for the report in order to garner publicity, as well as political and monetary support. The Environmental Protection Agency's EPEAT shows Apple leading the ranks in all categories. ArsTechnica called the Greenpeace report a fraud after factual substantiation was questioned.
Greenpeace responded to the criticisms in a rebuttal also published by RoughlyDrafted. Along with the Greenpeace rebuttal, the article[33] further presented the results of a second Greenpeace report, called "Toxic Chemicals in Your Laptop Exposed," which Roughly Drafted called an 'apology' for the initial claims Greenpeace made in the Greener Guide rankings. While Greenpeace itself has never used the word "apology", they did restate several of their initial claims in a response to Keith Ripley, another reviewer of the report.[34] For example, the data reported findings of minimal traces of TBBPA, an unregulated fire retardant in the Apple computer; the Greenpeace press release said Apple "appears to be using far more of this toxic chemical than its competitors". This is despite the fact that the EU Scientific Committee on Health and Environmental Risks concluded in March of 2005 that TBBPA "presents no risk to human health"[35] and "the World Health organisation conducted a scientific assessment of TBBPA and found that the risk for the general population is considered to be insignificant."[36]
More criticism of the statement in the Greenpeace press release followed in:[37] "The most recent report, 'Toxics in Your Laptop Exposed,' did credible scientific tests, but then threw out the data to instead present a lathered up, misleading and deceptive press release that was simply a lie. No amount of credible science is worth anything if you ignore the findings and simply present the message you wanted to the data to support."
Greenpeace published an article on its website, addressing the criticism so far, with a special focus on scientific issues.[38]
@amigadave:
I know what you're saying, and you're right, but sometimes some bugs have to be squashed before they spoil the other fruits. It's just amazing the amount of ignorance that certain people carry on their shoulders. It makes you (me) want to do something. Like write things as caustically as possible just so that you can sear enough of their brain's virtual surface away, in hopes that perhaps they can start receiving some of the light from the outside world in their darkened minds.
That's all for now. Going back to tinkering with my Amiga now: I think I can overclock it a little more with this 55Mhz crystal! Can't do that so easily with my Mac ;-) Ciao!
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@da9000
RoughlyDrafted is possibly the most fanatical Mac blog on the net. I'm sure you see the irony of calling the Greenpeace research FUD when backing it up only with claims from RoughlyDrafted "consultants". Come now, you're not that ignorant are you?
As for EPEAT; Dell, HP, Lenovo, and Toshiba have all gold and silver ratings too. How does that invalidate Greenpeace's claims? It's a different ranking. EPEAT focuses on a set of criteria for a single product, not a ranking of the overall company.
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This thread is pathetic. Andy, I apologise on behalf of all the juvenile individuals in this thread who, for whatever reason, have a chip on their shoulder and are unable to accept that some people like different computers them.
Really, do you people have nothing better to do with your time than to insult others because of their choice of which computer to use? Grow up!
--
moto
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Yes, now you've totally convinced me! You definitely use a Mac. Should I start laughing now?
mac-chan:/home/daniel# getSystemId
Libsmbios: 2.0.3
Error getting the System ID:
Service Tag: SystemSerialNumb
Express Service Code: 9223372036854775807
Product Name: MacBook2,1
BIOS Version: MB21.88Z.00A5.B07.0706270922
Vendor: Apple Inc.
Is Dell: 0
mac-chan:/home/daniel# lsusb
Bus 005 Device 004: ID 05ac:8300 Apple, Inc. Built-in iSight (no firmware loaded)
Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 003 Device 002: ID 05ac:8240 Apple, Inc. IR Receiver [build-in]
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 001 Device 005: ID 05ac:021c Apple, Inc.
Bus 001 Device 004: ID 046d:c040 Logitech, Inc. Corded Tilt-Wheel Mouse
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 004 Device 003: ID 05ac:8205 Apple, Inc. Bluetooth HCI MacBookPro
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
The only "crank" here is you.
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motorollin wrote:
This thread is pathetic. Andy, I apologise on behalf of all the juvenile individuals in this thread who, for whatever reason, have a chip on their shoulder and are unable to accept that some people like different computers them.
Really, do you people have nothing better to do with your time than to insult others because of their choice of which computer to use? Grow up!
Yes, we should really accept that people like different things and not call people names.
uncharded wrote:
@Moto
Well I deliberately decided not to mention the other "cool thing" as it might be a controversial thing around these parts and I didn't want to draw attention away from the real subject by attracting a bunch of narrow-minded idiots raving on about how they hate XYZ.
Hmmm... Seems Andy was asking for it. :-P
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Well I guess I stand corrected hehe ... so you say, don`t .... bang ..... head .... on ..... screen ....... right, I think I got it ;-) ;-) quite a reply there matey, took almost all my lunch break to read through it. :crazy:
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ami_junki wrote:
Well I guess I stand corrected hehe ... so you say, don`t .... bang ..... head .... on ..... screen
Screen on my macbook cracked last week, a massive dot appeared on the screen where the juice dripped out of it.
Apple* did fix it under warranty, probably because most of the onboard USB hardware (iSight etc) had also died at some point, I don't use them so I hadn't noticed. My harddrive died 4 months or so after I bought the machine..
The main problem with the previous gen macbooks is that the super-eco-green plastics (tm) they are using aren't all that rigid and the stuff contained within the case takes a lot of twists as a result. Luckily my misses managed to get a free 5 year insurance policy out of Kojima when we bought it, so I just have to break it and claim a next generation one when I feel like it. ;)
*I say Apple, it was actually some company out in the sticks that did the repair. Apple don't do post in returns in the UK anymore so you have to find an authorised third party to do the work.
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Getting back to the origins of the thread. The coolest thing Ive seen all week was the indivision flicker fixer in my A1200.
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persia wrote:
@Raffaele
The Amiga is the computer equivalent of camping out under the stars.
(http://www.prophecyfellowship.org/images/smilies/smiley-channel.de_camping001.gif)
:lol:
We have different visions of computing...
In my vision Windows is the equivalent of camping...
You get the tent, and you must rise it using strange procedures described on strange manuals...
You must accomply the strange rules of the camping facility (i.e. you cannot swim in the lake until it has to be defragmented, and diskchecked) and you are unsure of the dangers ouside the tent that could break in it, like as bears, spiders, wolves, snakes and perverted maniacs (viruses, spyware and trojans)...
Amiga was always to me as a confortable armchair I can count always on... :roll: :oops: :-D
Or perhaps Amiga is like a fido dog...
He obeys my orders, it is poite and sincere, and it never doing crazy things like windows...
Apple mac is like having dealing any time with Primadonna star with all her tics, and little maniacal strange desires and wishes to be accomplished... :roll: :lol:
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pixie wrote:
It is easy for Apple to develop new machines as all its revenues are coming from IPOD market...
Build yourself a revenue income then, what's Apple fault again, making money? :roll:
Come on...
You undestood perfectly what I am saying...
If they do not started selling MP3 players counting on millions of stupid people who just want a brand name sticked on MP3 cases (just as those who love wearing only T-Shirts with famous fashion brands sticked on it), then Apple had already had biting the dust just as like Commodore did...
And Commodore did not closed due to lack of their products, but due to strange manuevering in the balance assets to avoid USA taxation that were made by Irving Gould and Mehdi Ali...
Apple are still on the market not due to the quality of their computers, but thanks to IPOD market...
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@Raffaele
Computer wars stoping some years ago, PC wins, at this era apple was just a computer with a slow and buggy OS full of progs for graphics or printing editions, now is a market with a different consumers following the sign of the apple without any comment agaisnt the brand, but i want to thing that is not the reality of most apple users, not all explain the quality of the computers or OS talkking like apple public relations (i think).
Relax, all people here loves the amiga, some have a pc or mac a some have both because we dont have modern browsers or apps in our platform, but all really likes the amiga.
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@da9000
Maybe this is the point that i can explain "mentallity of the users" in one platform or other, this make a machine much interesting that others, by example... the difference of a macmini ppc with osx and the same machine with morphos, same machine but different "spirit".
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da9000 wrote:
@Raffaele:
Just in case you're still not sure what you see in the mirror each morning, here's a clue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_(person)
Well... Bolt Crank is a really cool character...
I like being like him...
(http://www.terrediconfine.net/fumetti/manga/images/eatman/cover1.jpg) 8-)
Oh and something more: since you really believe I have nothing to do with Amigas, please Amiga-fy me: I challenge you to give me your Amigas for FREE so I can become converted. Yes, I'll take that Pegasos II as well! Come on, prove to us how much of an avid Amigan you are and that you want to spread Amigadome everywhere. Help convince and infidel (me) that Amigas are the best: give me your Amiga hardware! And I'll even spare you the pain: I won't give you a SINGLE of my beautiful Macs! :-D Deal?
Nice try...
- "Ma'am? Wanna change your bin of laundry detergent AmigaOS for two bins of mine MacOS X?" :rtfm:
- "Oh no! NEVER! Amiga washes cleaner and whiter than yours..." :-o
:-P
Free gifts from TV-Advertising soap vendors are only in the world of tales or perhaps in your dreams...
It is so easy when you got TANSTTAFCSGFAS
(There ain't no such thing than a free computer set gift from a sucker)
If you wanna try the Amiga, risk yourself by buying it as I did with my own money, and test it yourself if you dare, by risking MONEY OF YOUR OWN... you smartass profiting parasite...
It is not a surprise for me that you are a Mac owner...
You act just the same beahviour as Apple firm...
I recall the same trade-your-Amiga-machine-to-me politics that made that loozy leechers from Apple when Commodore was dismissed by Irving Gould...
They bought for months and months 2 pages full color Advertising Campaign on all Amiga Magazines worldwide by trying to convert Amiga users to buy their loozy Macintoshes when Commodore was dismissed...
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9592/appleacchiappautentiamiwe0.jpg)
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8224/appleacchiappautentiamiuj6.jpg)
They had the dare to say: Apple Mac LC 630 "the first REAL multimedia machine"...
ROTFLMAO! :lol: :lol: :lol:
And their message was:
"Hey, PSST... Amiga User! Commodore is dead, so did the Amiga! Trade back your little Amiga with a cool Mac... We are the only Motorola based machine left on the market..."
Apple are just a bunch of jackals... :-P
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Raffaele wrote:
Apple are still on the market not due to the quality of their computers, but thanks to IPOD market...
Hmyes, mainly because of that guy who made Oracle big I'd say.
And because Microsoft backed Apple up with a cash injection, when Apple was almost bankrupt.
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@Rafaele
You are living in the past. OS9 has as much to do with modern Apple, as mud brick has to do with Burj Dubai.
(http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/Partyyy.gif)
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@Moto
No need to apologise, it's just the usual HBK (Hide Behind a Keyboard) Syndrome. The only thing that annoyed me is that the original intent of the thread has been lost several times over. I really started the thread because I wanted to talk Miggy, nothing else. It was supposed to be about how cool that screenshot is (or at least how cool I think it is).
If it wasn't for the fact that my original post seemed to confuse people, I would never dared use the 'M' word.
Still, as someone else pointed out earlier - it's not my place to say what people post, if going over the same old Mac R0xx0r / Mac Suxx0r chestnut floats their boats, who am I to stop them?
adolescent wrote:
uncharded wrote:
@Moto
Well I deliberately decided not to mention the other "cool thing" as it might be a controversial thing around these parts and I didn't want to draw attention away from the real subject by attracting a bunch of narrow-minded idiots raving on about how they hate XYZ.
Hmmm... Seems Andy was asking for it. :-P
Fair play sir. :-D That sentence was the fruit of bitter experience of the rabid frenzy some people get themselves into at the mere mention of the 'M' word.
You must admit though, it's a frightenly accurate description of certain participants. :-)
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@uncharted
Smileys are cool!
(http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/pcheers3.gif)
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uncharted wrote:
Fair play sir. :-D That sentence was the fruit of bitter experience of the rabid frenzy some people get themselves into at the mere mention of the 'M' word.
You must admit though, it's a frightenly accurate description of certain participants. :-)
I do agree. Trolling was never so easy. Maybe next time don't be so anxious to tell everyone about the Mac and just tell us about the Mac (in a separate well insulated thread of course). That way, the thread about SabreMSN can be all about the great new AGA smileys. And the thread about your shiny new book can be about how macs are poo. ;-)
Furthermore people complaining that this thread was taken off topic are frankly wrong. The way I see it there are two distinct topics being discussed. Of course, it's not so pleasant to read for most.
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It's a darn shame CBM died, teh Amiga had so much right. AREXX was brilliant back in the day, had Amiga had a surviving parent I would not be surprised to see that extended to the Workflows of today long before they appeared in OS X.
Did Amiga designers ever think of an XGrid type utility?
(http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/palmtree.gif)
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persia wrote:
It's a darn shame CBM died, teh Amiga had so much right.
I hear you there, if only Commodore had survived, the Amiga might have been a real alternative. Damn shame.