Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Dandy on October 07, 2008, 08:35:44 AM
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While following the news about the latest finacial crisis in the US and having heard McCains statement that he wants to clean the US-economy from fraudulous managers, I was wondering if this spirit might influence the courts way of deciding the Amiga vs. Hyperion case (e.g. merciless prosecution of fraudulent business practices and severe punishment of the offender) and if this might finally lead to the incarceration of Pentti Kouri and his gang, including MacBill?
What do you think?
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You gotta be kidding me.
The notion that financial situation would somehow influence the way courts work is silly. Even if it would, the supposed acts have already happened, and the courts can't reinterpret the law ex post facto.
Even though Kouri's actions might be immoral, it doesn't necessarily make them illegal. What supposedly is "fraudulent" in his business?
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... and if this might finally lead to the incarceration of Pentti Kouri and his gang, including MacBill?
What do you think?
I doubt we would ever see that! :lol: :-D
What politicians say and do are two completely different things! They all say what people want to hear, but really they all are looking out for their own interests.
And if anything with the US economy as it is, I would be cynical enough to think that in such a economic climate US courts will tend (even more than usual) to support US based companies in international disputes, and considering Hyperion are Belgium based.
I guess though who knows??? :-?
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The notion that financial situation would somehow influence the way courts work is silly.
Oh yeah, sorry I forgot, that the the US judicial system is so virteous and true - how silly! :lol: :lol:
Like it's really silly that tax payers should bail out greedy financial corporations??? :crazy:
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Just thinking about those awfull neocon piranhas with McCain as head getting his hands on the US govermet, makes me feel a deep, deep despair. I TRULY hope you aren't THAT stupid...
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Piru wrote:
You gotta be kidding me.
The notion that financial situation would somehow influence the way courts work is silly.
It is NOT my notion that financial situation would somehow influence the way courts work - I just asked if this could be possible.
Please read my posting more carefully next time!
I hope you know the difference between "notion" and "question"...
:roll:
Piru wrote:
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Even though Kouri's actions might be immoral, it doesn't necessarily make them illegal. What supposedly is "fraudulent" in his business?
Pentti Kouri (->Kouri-deals) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentti_Kouri)
Or just think of the AInc(W)->ITEC->KMOS->MKOS->AInc(D) shell game...
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gaula92 wrote:
Just thinking about those awfull neocon piranhas with McCain as head getting his hands on the US govermet, makes me feel a deep, deep despair. I TRULY hope you aren't THAT stupid...
Please stay on topic, if you want politic debate there is the CH forums or Whyzzat.
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having heard McCains statement that he wants to clean the US-economy from fraudulous managers, I was wondering if this spirit might influence the courts way of deciding the Amiga vs. Hyperion case
Too small of a fish to show up on the federal radar probably. But you know the investment portfolio of Pentti and others is probably taking a big hit. The finacial bottom line might change enough to affect the out come. And who knows, some newly placed governace rules might make a difference too.
Plaz
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I just asked if this could be possible.
It is not possible.
Pentti Kouri (->Kouri-deals)
Or just think of the AInc(W)->ITEC->KMOS->MKOS->AInc(D) shell game...
As far as I know Pentti Kouri himself was never charged for the Kouri deals. Whether he did actually commit a crime or not is debatable. Apparently the investigation didn't find anything worthwhile against him, and thus he wasn't prosecuted.
As to the A Inc shell game, do you have any evidence that a) it was illegal or that b) Pentti Kouri was involved?
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Amiga Inc and Hyperion together aren't as large financially as your average grocery store and the amount of money Amiga Inc skipped out on is small potatoes. Amiga Inc and Hyperion and their dispute over a few thousand dollars have zero effect on the current financial crisis which likely is in the trillions of dollars. It's an issue of scale. It's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, it's not even that, it's the whehter you use the middle name(S) of a single passenger or their initial(s).
(http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/panic.gif)
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@Piru
As to the A Inc shell game, do you have any evidence that a) it was illegal or that b) Pentti Kouri was involved?
I mentioned the quote from Judge Martinez:
here (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=26548&forum=16&start=80&viewmode=flat&order=0)
After which there was a brief discussion regarding the connotation of the term "potentially troubling" in relation to the "shell game".
#6
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Troubling for Amiga Inc in the sense that it fits Hyperion's side of the story...
If the shell game was with an already insolvent Amiga Inc transferring assets to KMOS, then Hyperion win!
(http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/palmtree.gif)
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like Piru, I agree that the current economic crisis would not effect the case.
however, if the crisis escalates further and your entire economy collapses like a deck of cards (which is a strong possibility, re: Russia not so long ago, the great depression, etc) the case would become irrelevant.
the last thing you'll be worrying about is the release of OS4, when you can't afford a loaf of bread. And your Judges would more than likely be in the breadline with you. There'd be little incentive/will to recount the intricacies of the Hyp vs. AI fiasco under those social conditions - I can assure you.
But, of course, that's the worst case scenario..."it'll never happen" (aheeem)
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I fully agree with Arkanoid,
The original poster so massively underestimates the potential implications of the financial crisis that it beggars belief.
Noone will care about Amigas if we end up living in caves!
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Noone will care about Amigas if we end up living in caves!
No-one said we would. :-? :lol:
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rofl!
Amiga Inc and Hyperion together aren't as large financially as your average grocery store
lol!
Face it! Amiga Inc are gone.
It suits Penti to keep the shell alive with its $5000 per annum income.
But..... Hyperion (with nothing to lose) and Acube (with everything to gain) have taken a calculated risk that they can do what the hell they like and the comatoze Amafia Inc cannot do anything about it now.
Face it - How on Earth can Scamiga stop Hyperion/Acube without a SCO scale legal budget - it aint gonna happen! ROFL LOL Chortle!!!!!!!
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Piru wrote:
I just asked if this could be possible.
It is not possible.
Pentti Kouri (->Kouri-deals)
Or just think of the AInc(W)->ITEC->KMOS->MKOS->AInc(D) shell game...
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As to the A Inc shell game, do you have any evidence that a) it was illegal or that b) Pentti Kouri was involved?
I don't need an evidence, as I'm no judge or court.
I'm just a potential customer and as such all that counts is how I'm feeling about companies and/or their executives, when it comes to the question if I buy from a particular company or not.
And my feeling is:
a) It was illegal.
b) Pentti Kouri was involved, as he was sitting on the boards of various of the involved companies.
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persia wrote:
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Amiga Inc and Hyperion and their dispute over a few thousand dollars have zero effect on the current financial crisis which likely is in the trillions of dollars. It's an issue of scale.
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You must have misread me - I did not mean the AInc. vs. Hyperion dispute would affect the current global financial crisis - it was more to the contrary - that the current global financial crisis possibly could affect the outcome of the AInc. vs. Hyperion dispute.
My impression was that BEFORE the financial crisis there were quite a lot people that didn't care for such scams and tried to tell me that this is common business practice in the US.
Now its getting obvious where such business practices lead to and even a presidentship candidate promises to clean the US market from criminal managers.
I am hoping that now the public perception of such business practices in the US might change now from a shrugging "It's common business practise" to an angry "We have to fight such business practise with hard punishment".
With such a change in public perception it might even be possible that courts have a closer and more critical look at certain business practises and are more eager now NOT to let them get away with what they did - no matter if it's AInc. vs. Hyperion or M$ vs. IBM.
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Now its getting obvious where such business practices lead to and even a presidentship candidate promises to clean the US market from criminal managers.
Don't hold your breath.
Good politician talks about whatever the public feels like is a pressing matter. This year it's economy.
With such a change in public perception it might even be possible that courts have a closer and more critical look at certain business practises and are more eager now NOT to let them get away with what they did
I find this very unlikely. If it would happen, it would thru new laws, not change in public perception.
As such it would only affect the new cases. It would have no effect on the current cases, such as Amiga Inc vs Hyperion.
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Just thinking about those awfull neocon piranhas with McCain as head getting his hands on the US govermet, makes me feel a deep, deep despair. I TRULY hope you aren't THAT stupid...
You really need to educate yourself more on the current US political nightmare going on. It's bad if McCain gets in, a nightmare if Obama gets in. The idiots who caused this subprime hell (Freddie and Fanny corps) are apart of Obama's staff. Forget the actual numbers, one made ~$90 million alone while at those hybred Government/Corporation by demanding to buy up subprime (50% holdings) morgages. The disaster financial laws that are coming home to roost were done in 1999 and signed into law by Clinton (former US Sec of Labor Robert B Reich had already left the Clinton administration which Reich pointed out in a TV interview on what a disaster that law is). The idiots who BLOCKED 13 reform bills (which Bush sent in via Republican congressmen) of Fanny/Freddie are still in charge of the congressional committees, and they belong to the Democrat Party. Obama was a political activist for ACORN. That ment he would sue any bank that did not give a minority a subprime loan.
One of the reasons my company is headed offshore as fast as they can open new countries up to our product because there is no one going to clean up this mess and not make it worse. Obama's tax plan is going to cause a very deep recession starting in 2010 when it goes into effect.
This maybe good news for Hyperion, I don't know if AI can raise the VC like it could this time last year. Although with the Stock Market being in the crapper, more VC may start to come to be. As much as I can not stand McCain, I'll have to vote for him, I have way too much too lose in a bad Obama recession. :madashell:
Dammy
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Piru wrote:
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Good politician talks about whatever the public feels like is a pressing matter.
Yeah - but this politician talking about it means that the public actually feels that way.
Piru wrote:
With such a change in public perception it might even be possible that courts have a closer and more critical look at certain business practises and are more eager now NOT to let them get away with what they did
I find this very unlikely. If it would happen, it would thru new laws, not change in public perception.
Yeah - but wouldn`t a change in the public perception be a precondition for politicians to put new laws in place in a democracy (Or do you mean the US are no democracy?)?
As the public already actually feels this way so that politicians already talk about it, I would expect as the next logical step in a working democracy that the politicians put appropriate laws in place to prevent such things from happening again in the foreseeable future.
Piru wrote:
As such it would only affect the new cases. It would have no effect on the current cases, such as Amiga Inc vs Hyperion.
Sure?
Isn`t it true that a judge has some margin of discretion when deciding a matter - even in the US?
And as the judge also is part of "the public" in his spare time, it is not unlikely that his perception equally changed with the majority of "the public", which in turn could turn the balance whether he decides more to the lower end or more to the upper end of the range the laws provide.
So - I don`t find this very unlikely...
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I agree with Dammy.
Dammy for president.
Long live AROS, and other cool OSes.
:-D
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Sure?
Isn`t it true that a judge has some margin of discretion when deciding a matter - even in the US?
I bet they do.
The point is that it would be legally dubious if unrelated conditions (and in this case way after the actual incident happened!) would affect the verdict.
It won't happen.
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@dammy
Please take that to coffee house. Thank you.
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The only possible effect of the financial crisis I see on the case is that Amiga, Inc.'s phantom money dries up and they can't pay their lawyers.
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Matt_H wrote:
The only possible effect of the financial crisis I see on the case is that Amiga, Inc.'s phantom money dries up and they can't pay their lawyers.
Good point!
I know what you mean - although - my perception always was that AInc was always talking about money they actually didn't have.
If THAT is the "phantom money" you're talking about - how can money - that doesn't even exist - dry up?
:roll: