Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: TheMagicM on October 03, 2008, 09:21:15 PM
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So I took my son (10) and my little girl (5) to the Apple store. My son wants a Mac Mini (Core 2 Duo version) so I decided I'll give it a shot. When I arrived, we found the mini and my son started playing around with Garageband and somewhat knew his way around and was using it. So I left him playing while I took my daughter to the center of the store where they had a circular desk area w/a few Mac's with kids games. While she was playing I noticed the "buzz" in the store and it seemed like Apple had got it right. OSX is a pretty cool operating system from what little I saw. Their systems are eye appealing and even the kids games were great for my little girl. I ended up ordering a Mini from BestBuy.com but its a Xmas gift for my son so he cant use it just yet.
At any rate, in the store it felt like the old Amiga days. There was enough hardware there for anyone to use with a variety of cool apps to check out. Now I'm a linux user so I wouldnt go run out and get a MacMini for myself but I'm sure my son is going to love his gift.
-Alex
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So why didn't you get it from the store that you were in?
I don't understand how some people can go and use the facilities, expertise and investment of a store only to turn round and purchase from someone else.
Apple do not sell at discounts anywhere so what was your reason for not buying from the Apple Store?
I used to work in HiFi and the same thing always happened where I would spend hours demonstrating a pice of equipment to a buyer then have him go purchase it from another store or the internet.
:-(
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@mauidj
Were you upset that the person didn't say thank you or that you didn't make your commission? Best Buy's high-end subsidiary Magnolia Hi-Fi has decent service (not always technically savvy--just helpful), but they sell everything at MSRP. Why would anyone in their right mind pay that when they know they can do better somewhere else? Apple's the exception, as you noted, since their stuff retails for the same price pretty much everywhere (gotta love Costco or Sam's Club for iPods). Perhaps our friendly moderator had a Best Buy gift card floating around?
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Actually, there are lots of ways to get a discount on Apple products. I never pay full retail by using Apple's store for government employees. You can choose a different Apple store from the menu on the website. They also offer discounts to students and teachers.
The other place for discounts, the Apple refurb store! Fully warranty and a much better price than MSRP.
Bob
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Trev wrote:
@mauidj
Were you upset that the person didn't say thank you or that you didn't make your commission? Best Buy's high-end subsidiary Magnolia Hi-Fi has decent service (not always technically savvy--just helpful), but they sell everything at MSRP. Why would anyone in their right mind pay that when they know they can do better somewhere else? Apple's the exception, as you noted, since their stuff retails for the same price pretty much everywhere (gotta love Costco or Sam's Club for iPods). Perhaps our friendly moderator had a Best Buy gift card floating around?
I was not upset by this behavior. I just feel it is somewhat dishonest. A person goes into a store and takes up a salesman's time and obviously does not say "by the way I'm not gonna buy this item from you".
All the while knowing that they are using this experience for their gain only. That's dishonest. But it does not upset me or I would be upset all the time as we are surrounded by dishonesty.
As you mentioned.....It's all about service.
You want it you should expect to pay for it.
My question was why did he not go to Best Buy to start with.
That's all.
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beller wrote:
The other place for discounts, the Apple refurb store! Fully warranty and a much better price than MSRP.
Bob
Absolutely. It's a great place to save big bucks and still get a like new product fully checked out by Apple.
My new Mac Mini will come from there I hope.
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Bah, should have gone for a "dumpster drive" and picked up a machine to run a lightweight Linux, saving the $$$ for the upcoming recession instead! :-D
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All my poor machines are just about falling apart.
I can't even afford to replace some of the components on some of them. The Amigas still work. Just don't have time to play.
The Newer Macs seem cool and fresh. As before to broke to come close to affording, newest Mac I have is a Beige G3 (333 MHz I think)
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@mauidj:
Your argument makes me laugh.
Who do you think you are criticizing my purchasing habits?
Is there some sort of rule that states that I must buy something from a certain store if someone talks to me? When I buy something, its a-hole salesmen that I brush off. I'm very tech savvy and know what I'm looking at. I dont need a high school dropout, teenager or salesman to explain the details of a system I know more about than they do. Yea its like that. I'm the buyer who interrupts you in mid-sentence and shoo's you away before you can ask me how I'm doing. They are there one minute, next minute they're waiting tables at a restaurant (I've seen that a few times).
I may not have sat and used it for x amount of minutes but I have read up on it and am very thorough before I make a purchase.
Now, the reason I didnt buy from Apple was because I have a Best Buy card that I can put the Mini on and have I think 90 days or whatever it is to pay it off no interest. Also, Best Buy doesnt have any Mini's I can see first hand, just laptops. Since I had $400 I put the rest on the card and will have it paid off next month. Does that work for you? Are there any further questions you have about my spending habits?
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@mauidj
If I went to a car dealership with the intention to buy every time I test drove a car, I'd be a very poor man. ;-) I do inform polite and outwardly well-meaning salespeople of my intentions. The pushy ones get a stiff "I'm just browsing."
@TheMagicM
You go.
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You know what? YOU are the sort of buyer who should not be allowed to walk into a store. Why do you walk in there? You know enough about the goods any way. Ah but you like to look at the merchandise, see it hear it touch it feel its operation. Why don't you just go online, sight unseen and buy it? Or go to the el cheapo wharehouse and get it there? Oh but you wanna see it working, you wanna try it out,or because you like the convenience and comfort of the shop. YOU might know this but YOU have just USED a SERVICE, taken up someones time who needs to earn a living from providing that service. It costs them MONEY to provide you with that shop front service. Next time you go to work to your job go in there without taking any pay for your time say half an hour each day for the next year, and explain to your family why you didn't get paid as much this year
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I think that Apple gets money either way.
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TheMagicM wrote:
At any rate, in the store it felt like the old Amiga days.
-Alex
Thats just how i felt too when i got my new Macbook a couple of months ago.
:-)
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@stefcep2:
So basically like you and mauidj want uninformed idiots who are easily scammed from their money to walk into your stores that way you can swindle them of their hard earned dollar? Unfortunately it doesnt work like that.
If someone chooses the life of a salesman, their inability to provide for themselves or whomever isnt my problem. With my hard earned dollar I have the freedom to choose where I spend it and how I spend it. If a local store wants my $, it'll take more than peon salesman to get it. So save the drama for yo' mamma. You'll get no sympathy from me.
As a matter of fact I need to go to the Apple store, view some more hardware, then buy online :lol: :lol: :lol:
EDIT:
Now if any of you two feel like talking more trash about how I spend my money, you'll find your post deleted. That will be the first warning. (I only give 2, the second puts you on vacation).
Stay on topic. To jog everyone's memory its:
Apple and OSX got something right.
Ambiance at the store.
Reminds me of old Amiga days.
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@ TheMagicM
Go for it mate. I to like to have a look at gear in stores before I decide were I will buy stuff from at the best deal offered.
clint
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@clint:
Jesus Christ.. Thank you man!!! :-)
@all:
It seems as though (maybe I'm wrong), software developers and companies overlook kids games (young kids). When I look for games for my little girl for her Windows box its all for Win 98 or DOS. I'm sure there are newer but maybe some kids games for MorphOS and OS4 would be a hit?
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@TheMagicM
Have you tried the original Sims on your little girl. There are some very good lessons to learn about life and social interaction in that game. No killing.
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Why not build a hackintosh? Pick n' choose your own inexpensive intel mobo/video card/ram/HD/optical and away you go!
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@ The MagicM
My dad and I were in an Apple store a week or so ago and I had the exact same thought. In a parallel universe, we'd have been in the Commodore Store.
Definitely a strange feeling, to be in a place with a passionate userbase, adequate supplies, AND corporate support. I even found the staff to be knowledgeable - I had always been curious about how a PowerMac (I guess they're called MacPros now) could pop the tray on a second installed CD drive, and the guy I asked didn't know. I told him not to worry about it, but he went to find out both for me, and so he could learn it himself. (And the answer is that you press the Eject button while holding the Option key.)
A Mac will very likely be my next machine.
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@B00tDisk
That's what I did. I have a hackintosh and a hackbook; I like to tinker around and you'll sure be doing that with OSX86...
@TheMagicM
Now if any of you two feel like talking more trash about how I spend my money, you'll find your post deleted. That will be the first warning. (I only give 2, the second puts you on vacation).
Hey that's abuse of power in my book. If he feels that way he should be able to say it. IMHO salespeople that DO know what they are talking about are valuable for some customers. If you're not one of them that's ok.
On topic: I don't have the old Amiga feeling with my hackintoshes, my iPhone or the local Apple Store. Those days are over sadly. For me the Amiga days were painting in DPaint and trying to create games in AMOS with a friend; more like a bedroom coder. Closest to that feeling was building Flash games. I stopped with that too because I'm too busy with my real job.
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@Flashlab
There was no Amiga store in the area back in the good old days. I ordered mine from Amiga postorder dealers. So I actually got the same feeling when i browse Amigakit that seem to head in the right direction and is very much alive. :-)
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I bought all my Amigas from the local Creative Computers in Redondo Beach. After all, how irresponsible would I be if I were to set foot inside the store and not buy the exact computer I first touched. :crazy:
BTW, I'd steer away from the Apple hardware and just make a hackintosh as previously suggested. Apple hardware is generally overpriced, underpowered and low quality.
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@themagicm:
A chill pill wouldn't go amiss.
Anyway, OSX is nice and all but Linux is free and free is good :-D (just a shame that Linux is {bleep}e).
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@TheMagicM
Now if any of you two feel like talking more trash about how I spend my money, you'll find your post deleted. That will be the first warning. (I only give 2, the second puts you on vacation).
Hey that's abuse of power in my book. If he feels that way he should be able to say it. IMHO salespeople that DO know what they are talking about are valuable for some customers. If you're not one of them that's ok.
On topic: I don't have the old Amiga feeling with my hackintoshes, my iPhone or the local Apple Store. Those days are over sadly. For me the Amiga days were painting in DPaint and trying to create games in AMOS with a friend; more like a bedroom coder. Closest to that feeling was building Flash games. I stopped with that too because I'm too busy with my real job.
I for one welcome our new moderating & censoring overlords ....
:lol: :lol:
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@odin:
Sorry man, I dont take crap from anyone. If you throw some my way, I throw it right back. Just because I'm a moderator does not mean I have to take what people say to me. I speak my mind, sorry if it hurt anyones feelings.
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@TheMagicM
The Mac Mini is a great starter machine for OSX, I started with a G4 version.
But if you do plan on getting some more horsepower for a desktop, I highly recommend looking into a hackintosh.
For $700 (CAD) I built a Quad core, 4gig 800mhz DDR2, 1TB, 512MB 8800GT, 850W psu power house in February of this year and is awesome compared to the mac mini. Only thing is there is a bit more maintenance when software upgrades are available, but worst case you can always get a EFiX (but only works with specific Gigabyte mother boards)
As for every one beating up on you about going into to a store to check our hard ware, ignore them. I do it all the time but I end purchasing from where it will suit me best (just as in your case).
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Matt_H wrote:
Definitely a strange feeling, to be in a place with a passionate userbase, adequate supplies, AND corporate support.
A Mac will very likely be my next machine.
You've hit on exactly why I went from the Amiga in 1995 to a Mac. I had to get up to speed on Macs in the early '90s due to my work with ReadySoft on the last version of the A-Max. It was an easy (but painful due to circumstances) move to the Mac as my main productivity machine.
(I do keep a couple of Windows machines for emulation and Catweasel use! One can never have too many computers...)
Bob
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nine3o:
Never heard of the hackintosh.. I take it its a x86 based system running OSX. hmm..I've thought about it since I had OSX running on a VMWare session.
The Mac Mini my son has is a 1.8ghz Core 2 Duo. I dont think he'll max it out since he uses his Xbox 360 for games.
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I take it its a x86 based system running OSX
Yup, that's exactly what it is. There are many different ways to run OSx on an x86 machine (including nVidia chipset motherboards). There is a great article in lifehacker (http://lifehacker.com/software/hack-attack/build-a-hackintosh-mac-for-under-800-321913.php) (this is what prompted me to build mine)
There is also EFiX (http://www.efi-x.com/) now which makes installation and updates straight forward, that is if you have the hardware on their HCL (Hardware Compatibility List)
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@ TheMagicM:
Never heard of the hackintosh.. I take it its a x86 based system running OSX.
It's the official term.
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TheMagicM wrote:
@odin:
Sorry man, I dont take crap from anyone. If you throw some my way, I throw it right back. Just because I'm a moderator does not mean I have to take what people say to me. I speak my mind, sorry if it hurt anyones feelings.
I don't take any crap from anyone either, including moderators , thats why I said what I did. BTW I'm not a salesperson, and if YOU and others think its OK to shop the way you do thats YOUR perogative, but that doesn't make it right or more worthy.
Your role as the moderator is remove posts that don't meet posting guidelines, not posts you don't agree with it. Sound like you might have missed your calling in Joe Stalins ministry.
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@stefcep2:
my purpose in deleting posts like yours is because its bashing, off-topic and pointless. If I hurt peoples or salespeople's feelings by not buying from their store, again, my choice and I dont care. I've noticed quite often when users whine on this site or any Amiga site they see in their eyes that its "ok" to whine and complain and berate others. As soon as a authority figure corrects them they complain of censorship. I can only please one person per day, today is probably not your day. Again, sorry.
@nine3o:
I havent played around with my VMWare session in quite some time.. I'll have to check it out. I'll be pretty excited to see how my son adapts and uses this system. He's pretty good using Garageband.
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TheMagicM wrote:
@stefcep2:
my purpose in deleting posts like yours is because its bashing, off-topic and pointless. If I hurt peoples or salespeople's feelings by not buying from their store, again, my choice and I dont care. I've noticed quite often when users whine on this site or any Amiga site they see in their eyes that its "ok" to whine and complain and berate others. As soon as a authority figure corrects them they complain of censorship. I can only please one person per day, today is probably not your day. Again, sorry.
This will be my last point on this.
Its not about hurting anybody's feelings but at the end of the day if you are going to use up their time and facilities without any intention of purchasing then be upfront about it: Give them the choice to not bother serving you and even asking you to leave their store if they want. Thats fair.
Unfortunately your post exhibited a very low opinion of retail workers, and regrettably thats all too common. Not all salespeople lack knowledge and intelligence, only the bad ones. I recently needed an external USB DVD drive for my HP 2133 mininote just to install some other software that was on CD. The salesperson suggested I use the dvd drive in my desktop pc, create a wireless network and mount the dvd drive on the mininote. He did this for free and didn't sell me a USB DVD Drive. But I bought a wireless mouse instead -which I could get anywhere-because of his service. Would I get that service from a hardware warehouse or online store? Its not just about who's cheapest.
We are ALL in a sense salesman: we either sell our services to our employers/customers or goods that we make. No-one likes to provide that for nothing.
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What a silly bunch of naive crap! Don't even get me started, "Right" vs "Wrong", "Honest" vs "Dishonest"???
It is all relative for most everything. It is not like he went it and shot the salesman, then kicked him and took his wallet. Very few retail outlets like the "Apple Store" pay their salespersons on commission any more and most salespersons would rather that you talk to them and give them something interesting to do, instead of brushing them off before you walk out and buy the item elsewhere.
TheMagicM might have a lot of faults one way or another, but what he did was neither "Right" or "Wrong" and all this fuss is ridiculous.
Back sort of on topic: I bought my old PowerBook and later my MacBook at MacMall's online store after shopping at both there and the Apple online store looking for the best deal. MacMall usually gives you a couple of extras since they can't charge a difference in the price of the Mac computer due to Apple's strict pricing rules. If I had an Apple store close, I might have gone in to try them out before buying, so I guess I am evil too.
On the topic of OSX86 & Hackintosh's, I wanted to do that with my Dell XPS700, but was told that it did not have the right pieces to make it work so I gave up. I need to look in to running OSX via VMWare of some kind, does anyone know the best place to look to get started in that direction?
By the way, my Dell XPS700 just died again, 2nd dead motherboard since I bought it new in the Summer of 2006. Good thing I paid for the extended warranty, this "Top of the Line" Dell tower (at the moment I bought it) sure is a piece of crap. They are sending someone out to replace the mobo and PSU this time, but it will take 3 business days to get them here. I told the claim person that I had other computers that are over 20 years old that are still working without any troubles and he said that newer computers are more likely to have problems because they are more complex, like that is just a fact of life and I should accept that newer things are going to break and not complain about it. Great company philosophy, it's new tech, so expect it to only last a year before it breaks.
I will never buy a Dell again. If I could get any money for it, I would sell it and buy myself an Intel Mac desktop, maybe a nice 24" iMac to run the occasional Windows program I need and run OSX for most everything else (except my AmigaOS/MorphOS fix that I need daily of course).
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I'm sure Apple would prefer people to come in to the shop, have a look around, then buy a product from anywhere. They still get the same mark-up on the product, so it makes no difference to them. If I went in to *any* shop to have a look at the products and was asked to leave then I would make a point of never buying anything from that company.
The Apple Store is a showroom for Apple's products. It is designed to be an interactive experience so people can try before they buy. Yes this costs Apple money in leasing the building, furnishing it and staffing it, but this is an investment. You only have to look at Apple's profits to see that it's not exactly doing them any harm.
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moto
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I have built yesterday my 5th hacintosh. I have to say that bulding a hacintosh is not as easy as it sounds..
no every component is supported, even if it is supported with patches its not always stable.
even if the chipset of the component is "Supported" the implementation if its different then its not working correctly. you have to realy dig compatible parts tested from users form osx86project and its difficult to find them in stores.
So the only way to have a hacintosh is to build a specific computer for osx86 and have it as a pc for windows also and not the other way around.
Also do not expect the stability of any hacintosh as any real mac, or the comforts you have with an apple hardware to boot from any device you want internal or external that gives you the ability to service it as easy and fast if something goes wrong. and last but not least having a hacintosh with the same specs as a real mac the hacintosh will also be a bit slower, not much but a bit about 5-10%.
Also for people that want POWER try to build a hacintosh with macpros specs and then compute the costs, not only you will ended up with something more expensive for the same speed but you will have also something not so stable and in cheap mess cases, nothing to compare about quality and design of construction of apple products. Just watch the design of the airflow of macpros and you will understand.
so hacintoshes is OSX for poor men, but as most things in life, you get what you pay.
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@StormLord
I'm afraid I have to disagree a bit with you here... Yes, a hackintosh is harder to maintain than a real Mac but I have two hackintoshes and they are stable and all running vanilla software updated to 10.5.5. It is true that you need to collect your hardware carefully but once you do it's as fast as the real thing and a heck of a lot cheaper. Payed under 1000 euros for a machine that's faster than the Mac Pro of that time.
For me it wasn't about the money either; I mainly run Windows on my machines, but the challenge. It made me decide that my next laptop will be Apple though, but for now my hackbook Acer Aspire will do fine (which was also a lot cheaper than the MacBook Pro with the same specs).
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I wouldnt recommend a Hackintosh to someone who is new to the Mac or is not very computer savvy.
You cant do automatic updates and getting certian pieces of hardware to run takes work.
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@themagicm:
It's not about hurting anyone's feelings, it's about a moderator losing his patience and control.
Ofcourse how the is run is completely at the owner's and staff's discretion.
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@StormLord
I have to disagree with you. I am on the same page with Flashlab, I'm running 10.5.5 and this system is as stable as my Mac Mini was, never crashed. I dual boot this machine into Vista 64 bit and the amount of times Vista has BSD'd on me compared to my hackintosh since I built it in Feb is something like 34 to 0.
I do agree with you in terms of if you want to build a Dual Xeon CPU power house, you can not build a machine cheaper than a real Mac Pro, BUT if you want something that is much faster than a Mac Mini or iMac, nothing will beat a Quad Core Hackintosh in terms of price.
@spihunter
Your right in terms of a hackintosh not being a good start for someone that is new to Mac's (or Unix) that's why the Mac Mini is a great start for TheMagicM. But since EFIX has been released, automatic OS updates work perfectly (not speaking from personal experience but from all the reviews I have read on Tomshardware and the InsanelyMac (http://www.insanelymac.com/) forums) so now even newbies can build a hackintosh with ease for an extra $130
When it's time for me to upgrade my laptop (later on this year or early 2009), I will be purchasing a Macbook Pro.
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Wow, after reading this thread I had to double check the URL wasn't arsehole.org!
Some people definitely need to chill out and not take the Interwebs so seriously.
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Wow - now I had to check out arsehole.org - wow!
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I've go no issue with MagicM's post about moderating these members. Their off the topic, hostle in tone, and can't see it any other way. I agree with a few that posted in support of MagicM. It's shopping, purchase at where you get the best deal. So one place lets you kick the tires. It does not obligate you to purchase the item from them. They have to provide the best deal economically.