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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: save2600 on September 18, 2008, 10:17:46 PM
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Just received and installed mine in my PAL A1200 system this afternoon. AWESOME piece of "kit" as the Brits say. Thanks to Joe at Softhut for getting this out so promptly. Couple of minor gripes:
1) Can not use harddrive bracket any longer and had to modify the RF shield to get it to fit. Did not modify it too badly however. Placed come non-conductive tape/foam on top of the Indivision card and velcro'd my 2.5" HD to what was left of the RF shield.
2) NO VGA MOUNT! In the manual it states "may supply if demand becomes great enough". BS. That should have been included from the get go. Oh well, damn dongle just flapping in the breeze. No biggy I guess. Just kinda of amateurish looking.
3) there is a scan line missing, but only down the 2/3's spot on the bottom right of my monitor. Have played around with settings to no avail. Not a huge problem given I use my machines mostly for gaming, but what gives? Am I missing something here or is this an undesirable byproduct of using this device?
4) Star Trek 25th Anniversary AGA no longer works. No matter the mode, memory usage, etc., my machine crashes an ugly Windoze type death. Wreaks havoc on the HD also until it finally settles down and returns to zippy A1200 normal.
All in all, so far, I am extremely happy with the output quality. The fact it converts PAL/NTSC images to the slop they are producing today is a miracle for ALL Amiga users :-)
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I'll add my feedback as well ...
First off, GREAT bit of kit. Makes a big difference to the display.
Cons for me are ...
PC Key 1200. Adaptor catches the top of the indivision so it cant seat properly. Push the PC Key 1200 too much and the indi pops off.
Fast ATA MKIII. A BVision rom socket kit is needed to raise the Fast ATA so that the indivision can sit underneath it. If you then have a mediator, it cant seat properly because of the now raised Fast ATA. If you force it all in, its far too tight and bulges upwards in the middle of the mediator and probably downwards on the miggy board)(I darent even switch it on). Also, the mediator then sits on top of the now uneven PC Key adaptor. Screw a PCI card down and this pushs the PC Key down wich in turn looses the Indivision.
I think the above is only a PCB size / shape issue. Maybe it'll be sorted in Indivision 2
Oh, and yes the VGA mount would have been useful.
Hope Jens doesnt take this as critism, I love what the indi does but addressing the above will make it even better.
tribz
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I think the above is only a PCB size / shape issue. Maybe it'll be sorted in Indivision 2
I wouldn't hold my breath. The investment in the PCB design is now over.
Shame there are a few issues especially if as you say they could have been discovered and fixed before production with a little more experimentation. You sure they could have been worked around?
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alexh wrote:
I think the above is only a PCB size / shape issue. Maybe it'll be sorted in Indivision 2
I wouldn't hold my breath. The investment in the PCB design is now over.
Shame there are a few issues especially if as you say they could have been discovered and fixed before production with a little more experimentation.
I think you are 100% right alexh, but these reports from the first few buyers are very useful to other potential buyers that might have the same add-ons on their A1200's.
I don't think anyone can blame Jens for not designing with every other A1200 add-on that is available, as there are so many different ones, but I am surprised that the hdd cradle can no longer be used when the IndivisionAGA is installed, as most buyers will have that bit of kit in their A1200's and there was no previous discussion about this being a problem. The small modification to the RF shielding is not a big surprise, as many additions to Amigas require some kind of RF shield cutting, bending or partial removal.
Thanks for the reviews guys.
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Does the Indivision cover up the IDE port on the mobo? If not, then I'd be plenty happy to switch to a FlashIDE module, anyway. Right now my 4GB CF is sitting in an adapter mounted to the HD bracket.
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LoadWB wrote:
Does the Indivision cover up the IDE port on the mobo? If not, then I'd be plenty happy to switch to a FlashIDE module, anyway. Right now my 4GB CF is sitting in an adapter mounted to the HD bracket.
No it doesn't cover the port, just use a CF card and all is well :)
As a bonus the CF will be less of a strain on your PSU than a 'real' HD.
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NovaCoder wrote:
No it doesn't cover the port, just use a CF card and all is well :)
As a bonus the CF will be less of a strain on your PSU than a 'real' HD.
Nah, I'd use one of these:
http://www.transcendusa.com/products/ModDetail.asp?ModNo=27&LangNo=0
http://www.transcendusa.com/products/ModDetail.asp?ModNo=28&LangNo=0
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Are you sure the Indivision will work fit with that flash module in place? I read (on EAB, I think) that they won't. I've got one here (the flash module) but my Indivision hasn't arrived yet so I can't check for myself.
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Can someone take a pic of the board installed? I'm not getting one or anything, but I would really like to see how it fits.
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skurk wrote:
Can someone take a pic of the board installed? I'm not getting one or anything, but I would really like to see how it fits.
Here`s mine:
IndivisionAGA installed (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=2727=10)
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Regarding the PCKEY 1200.
It is possible to cut it to fit over the Indivision. There is only one track near the area that you need to avoid cutting.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3072/2854597506_090f9a8e93_o.jpg
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LoadWB wrote:
Nah, I'd use one of these:
http://www.transcendusa.com/products/ModDetail.asp?ModNo=27&LangNo=0
http://www.transcendusa.com/products/ModDetail.asp?ModNo=28&LangNo=0
Do a price comparison between a 44pin -> CF adapter + suitably sized CF card and one of those flash modules with the same capacity and your opinion may change.
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I'll probably remove the RF shielding for now and store it for safe keeping but in case I get the urge to modify it, do I have to cut the whole area of the SD/FF board?
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Jope wrote:
LoadWB wrote:
Nah, I'd use one of these:
http://www.transcendusa.com/products/ModDetail.asp?ModNo=27&LangNo=0
http://www.transcendusa.com/products/ModDetail.asp?ModNo=28&LangNo=0
Do a price comparison between a 44pin -> CF adapter + suitably sized CF card and one of those flash modules with the same capacity and your opinion may change.
I already have, and I have come to the conclusion that a CF-IDE adapter plus CF card is no match versus an all-in-one solution rated for industrial usage and longevity. The IDE Flash is a much more elegant and less awkward solution.
Besides, we're Amigans... since when does price become an issue? :crazy: We'll plop a couple of clams on a FF/SD, a couple more clams on a USB interface, but then decide to skimp on ~$45? That's patently unAmigan.
And to stay more on topic, it looks possible to fit the vertical unit in the 1200, and the Indivision leaves plenty of space around the IDE port for it. The horizontal unit may take some wedge-work, though.
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gklinger wrote:
Are you sure the Indivision will work fit with that flash module in place? I read (on EAB, I think) that they won't. I've got one here (the flash module) but my Indivision hasn't arrived yet so I can't check for myself.
Looks like there's loads of room for a flash module.
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ddniUK wrote:
Regarding the PCKEY 1200.
It is possible to cut it to fit over the Indivision. There is only one track near the area that you need to avoid cutting.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3072/2854597506_090f9a8e93_o.jpg
Nice job, might give it a go this weekend and no doubt be ordered a new one on Monday :-P
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save2600 wrote:
3) there is a scan line missing, but only down the 2/3's spot on the bottom right of my monitor. Have played around with settings to no avail. Not a huge problem given I use my machines mostly for gaming, but what gives? Am I missing something here or is this an undesirable byproduct of using this device?
Out of curiosity, what type of monitor are you using?
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LoadWB wrote:
I have come to the conclusion that a CF-IDE adapter plus CF card is no match versus an all-in-one solution rated for industrial usage and longevity.
How did you come to that conclusion? CF-IDE adapter plus CF card is functionally identical, a fraction of the cost, certain versions are just as easy to use.
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About the missing scan linest on bottom right. Flashing the firmware with the file that comes with configuration tool worked for me. Had to flash it twice since at the first time the screen went blank. I had to connect the scart cable to get a picture and flash it again, which luckily seemed to do the trick. The picture is sharp in my tft.
Have to rethink the place of my cf card and ide splitter since if they are laying over the sd/ff, the screen may go blank irregularly for a second or two.
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alexh wrote:
LoadWB wrote:
I have come to the conclusion that a CF-IDE adapter plus CF card is no match versus an all-in-one solution rated for industrial usage and longevity.
How did you come to that conclusion? CF-IDE adapter plus CF card is functionally identical, a fraction of the cost, certain versions are just as easy to use.
The answer is in my original post.
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Hey, it's insanely cheap vs. extremely cheap - who cares? :lol:
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Two days and the Indivision AGA (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=821) (second batch) will be here!
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amigakit wrote:
Two days and the Indivision AGA (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=821) (second batch) will be here!
I guess that is why my rather large order is still pending? :-D
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Yes (and thanks for the order!)
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After several hours of struggling, I am still not able to get anything remotely decent on my CRT... :-(
The image is heavily distorted, severely flashing and flickering and it turns black every few seconds. I also noticed extreme ghosting of the icons, although this can also be caused by the other graphical problems I have. The current image is unfortunately completely unusable...
I expect the connection to Lisa is the cause of trouble, as I find my Indivision much to easy to remove once fitted: both my Idefix Express and my old DCE Scanmagic have a much better connection to their respective chips on the motherboard of my A1200.
Anyone else suffering the same problems? How well should the Indivision hold on to Lisa? I expected it would hold on tightly, but this is definitely not so.
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Jiffy wrote:
Anyone else suffering the same problems? How well should the Indivision hold on to Lisa? I expected it would hold on tightly, but this is definitely not so.
Seems to depend on the board. I have two 1200 boards, one with a CBM Lisa and one with a HP. The HP one fits terribly. In fact it no longer stays on and I now have boot problems with it (blue screen) even when its not fitted.
tribz
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tribz wrote:
Seems to depend on the board. I have two 1200 boards, one with a CBM Lisa and one with a HP. The HP one fits terribly. In fact it no longer stays on and I now have boot problems with it (blue screen) even when its not fitted.
Ah. I also have the HP one... :-(
The Scanmagic fits perfectly, the Indivision does not.
Upon further inspection: everytime I push it on Lisa (the Indivision board, that is), after releasing it, I can hear it 'creap' up a little which imo is not really a sign of a good connection.
So it seems I now have a shiny, brandnew, EUR 138,38 costing (excluding shipment), highly anticipated and highly sought after piece of kit for my A1200 which apparently doesn't fit that same A1200 because it appears to have an HP-Lisa instead of a CBM one (my A1200 is from Commodore, not AT). I am slightly annoyed. Please give me a moment while I am repeatedly banging my head to the nearest wall.
Anyone with a solution?
The story continues: it now refuses to stay on at all. If I so much as breath on it, it falls of. This is definitely not funny.
I have now removed the Indivision and put the Scanmagic back. My A1200 is now at least working ok again. The Indivision is definitely not going back in this computer again...
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I am using an NEC MultiSync 70 17".
Flashing the card with the latest software did not alleviate the missing 1/3 scan line IN DoubleNTSC or DoublePAL modes and only goes away if I fiddle with the settings using regular NTSC or PAL screens.
The problem I was having with Star Trek was in the really high res screen modes. Dumming the machine down to "hi-res" PAL or NTSC seems to allow the game to run again.
NEW problem: after the machine is on for a good hour or two, I begin to notice some flickering small scan lines on the display. Leave the machine on even longer, icons will flicker, ghost, flash, etc. I've mounted my 2.5" HD way off to the right of the AGA card, thinking heat might be the issue. My A1200 has an A500 power supply, so there should be plenty of power going around.
Anyone else experiencing similar problems with their AGA cards after being left on for a while or do I have a defective unit?
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After the results on my LG M1921A TFT were far from being satisfactory (ghosts, shadows and distortions), I just swapped the monitors between Amiga and PeeCee.
My old 17" Belinea ray tube provides a decent picture based on the Amiga/Indi signals on DBLPAL. HighGFX (and most of the other stuff) works equally well, but I have to keep the low chipmem in mind.
The TFT's native resolution of 1280x1024 pixels proved to be better suited for my PeeCee. Though it's a TV/monitor the picture in any of the Amiga screens was problematic, except from maybe RGB-SCART.
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Seems to depend on the board. I have two 1200 boards, one with a CBM Lisa and one with a HP. The HP one fits terribly. In fact it no longer stays on and I now have boot problems with it (blue screen) even when its not fitted.
That's outrageous. If this thing broke your motherboard, then not only do you deserve your money back, but you also deserve an explanation as to why this thing wasn't tested with the HP Lisa.
Hell, they should also pay to fix/replace your motherboard.
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Does the Lisa chip version depend on the board revision? My board is 2B but I didn't check the chip - and I dare not try to pry the Indivision out. Mine seems to hold pretty snuggly but I've also experienced occasional blackouts usually, when there is stuff over the Indivision.
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Computolio wrote:
utrageous. If this thing broke your motherboard, then not only do you deserve your money back, but you also deserve an explanation as to why this thing wasn't tested with the HP Lisa.
Hell, they should also pay to fix/replace your motherboard.
I'm keeping in mind its a 16 year old motherboard so stuff happens. Me and Jiffy might have just been unlucky. I'll await to see if anyone else has problems.
tribz
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Protek wrote:
Does the Lisa chip version depend on the board revision? My board is 2B but I didn't check the chip - and I dare not try to pry the Indivision out. Mine seems to old pretty snuggly but I've also experienced occasional blackouts usually, when there is stuff over the Indivision.
I dont know if the board revision dictates the lisa version but for info my 2B board is a HP Lisa and the 1D4 is a CBM one.
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tribz wrote:
Protek wrote:
Does the Lisa chip version depend on the board revision? My board is 2B but I didn't check the chip - and I dare not try to pry the Indivision out. Mine seems to old pretty snuggly but I've also experienced occasional blackouts usually, when there is stuff over the Indivision.
I dont know if the board revision dictates the lisa version but for info my 2B board is a HP Lisa and the 1D4 is a CBM one.
Mobo revision pics from BBOAH seem to support your remarks. It's very likely that my mobo has the HP chip. Didn't have this info prior I put the Indivision in place and don't dare to remove it anymore to check it.
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2) NO VGA MOUNT!
I also thought: WTF?! And it was not just an error, since both of my Indivision's missed it.
Especially since two weeks before I junked a lot of my old hardware (pc related). I could have used those mounts!?!??!? If I only knew.
"may supply if demand becomes great enough"
It really says? Vote+
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Received mine yesterday, after reading all the posts here and at EAB it was almost with reluctance that I decided to install it tonight...
I'm happy to say that it popped in with only a tiny amount of swearing :-)
Biggest hassle was snipping the @*!?¥: RF shield :furious:
I have to admit I'm dissapointed with the lack of a VGA backing plate, it is after all a 1200 only SD/FF, how many different install points are there in a 1200?
Having said that, I'm over the moon with the quality of the display
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I guess
I have to admit I'm dissapointed with the lack of a VGA backing plate, it is after all a 1200 only SD/FF, how many different install points are there in a 1200?
I guess we have to fabricate one from an old graphics card. Too bad there isn't room for both VGA and SCSI.
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Can the Indivision be held onto the HP chip using a thin piece of double-sided tape?
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LoadWB wrote:
Can the Indivision be held onto the HP chip using a thin piece of double-sided tape?
Depends on the strength of the tape. I did think ahout a bit of 3M tape but dont want to put something on that could cause problems if I need to remove it.
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tribz wrote:
Depends on the strength of the tape. I did think ahout a bit of 3M tape but dont want to put something on that could cause problems if I need to remove it.
My other thought was heat issues, but I've seen heatsinks attached using some kind of tape that seemed to conduct quite well.
Tape would have to be better than super glue! :-)
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http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=461386#post461386
PZ :-D
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Does the Indivision support piccaso/Cybergraphics? 'cos when I sell my A4T, I'm not looking forward to losing my high colour workbench. I guess what i'm asking is, can I have high colour backdrops/icons, and will art apps work in 24 bit?
And will they be faster than AGA?
I understand it isn't a graphics card, but the blurb mentions 24bit in all screenmodes.
confused,
from northampton.
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It's a flickerfixer for all AGA-screen modes. Nothing more, nothing less. Every AGA-graphics mode remains exactly as fast as it was as it is still exacty the same screen mode. It doesn't add any extra modes.
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Then I'm a bit confused, as it says '24bit colour resolution in all screenmodes'.
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Khephren wrote:
Then I'm a bit confused, as it says '24bit colour resolution in all screenmodes'.
Why? It can indeed display all colours the A1200 can reproduce. The A1200 has a 24 bit palette, but not all of them can be displayed at the same time. For example, you can have a 640x512 workbench with a maximum of 256 colours. Those colours are selected from a 24-bit palette. With older flickerfixers for the Amiga (1200), not all colours could be correctly reproduced on screen, as they had a maximum colour resolution of 12 or 16 bits (depending on model).
When using one of those older 16 bits flickerfixers, you could only display 65,536 different colours, even though the A1200 can display 16,777,216 different ones. The Indivision 1200 is able to correctly display all colours the A1200 has to offer, although (depending on the used screenmode) not all of them will be displayed simultaneously.
All in all, the Indivision 1200 is a 24 bit flickerfixer as it can display every single colour from the 24 bits AGA-palette.
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Nearly correct. The A1200 does NOT have a 24bit resolution, it has a 24bit Pallette
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HAM8-Mode supports 262,244 Colors out of 16.777.216 at the same time.
But HAM8 can´t used for the WB.
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Yes, i'm fully conversant with these details, I make bitplane based graphics for a living.
But the advert says 24bit resolution for all screens, and it is not, the bit resolution of all modes remains the same, but it does allow you to choose from a 24bit pallete when in non ham mode.
A bit misleading in my opinion.
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262144 to be exact :roll:
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Khephren wrote:
But the advert says 24bit resolution for all screens, and it is not, the bit resolution of all modes remains the same, but it does allow you to choose from a 24bit pallete when in non ham mode.
It means you get the full 24bit palette when using AGA-modes, as most of the old scandoublers only showed the colors in 16/18bit-precision.
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samplist wrote:
262144 to be exact :roll:
:cheers:
:idea:
786432 :-D
1024x768 ham8
:-P
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Re:a missing scan line 2/3rds down the pic.
Some CRT displays had a fine wire (internally) that had something to do with focusing,and very few TV views ever noticed it.Trinitrons mostly,I think.But a static display more easily reveals this line.One model of CRT reportedly had TWO wires -one 1/3 and the second 2/3rd from the top.
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Yeah, I was thinking along similar lines with the missing scan line. 15" Trinitrons had only one damper wire, 17" and above had 2. (Mitsubishi Diamondtron tubes had them as well.)
Never bothered me in the slightest, but I used to lol at the newegg reviews of people returning their monitors for the "messed up row of pixels" :-)
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a1k is online again !!
follow this link to the latest (alpha/beta/gamma) flashupdate.
www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=198389 (http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=198389)
HD720 (1280x720) widescreen (16:9) support added !!!
(HD720 is part of the HighGFX40.6 aminet-package)
have phun ;-)
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WOOT! Just got mine today. Red shipped it Friday, and somehow it managed to make it all the way from Florida to Nevada over the weekend. :D
Fortunately, installation was easy in my case. I have an "HP" branded Lisa (Escom, factory-fixed 1D4 board), yet there were no issues securing the Indivision. (Just pressed it on with mild to moderate pressure, and it's fine.) Call me lazy, but I didn't modify the RF shield... I simply used a couple of strategically placed plastic feet (with mild adhesive on one side) to make sure the shield couldn't contact the Indi. I'll have to make a cable to relocate my Prelude card, but no big issues.
Immediately I fired up my favorite Loveboat demo, and was very pleased with the results. Just for kicks, I loaded up a few 256 color single-color gradients (as ripped from something alexh posted a while back), and as expected the unit handles the AGA palette correctly. Workbench looks just fine, but there are a few things to keep in mind -- I don't mean to preach to the choir, just thought I'd share a few thoughts, since I recall reading a complaint or two about text quality:
1. Text on any CRT will be less sharp than an LCD at its native resolution, particularly with an aperture grill CRT (Trinitron/Diamondtron). If you're used to LCD's, the difference will be dramatic, even compared to an expensive CRT.
2. CRT's are sensitive to sync frequencies in relation to text clarity, so you'll need to play around with your screenmode settings, Indivision config, and monitor settings to find what's most acceptable to your eyes. (There should be some tools on aminet to help "dial in" your monitor.)
3. Text on LCD's will be less sharp if the display resolution is not matched to the LCD native resolution (though some LCD's probably have better scaling algorithms than others). Something like 640 x 512 should look okay on an LCD with a native res of 1280 x 1024 (17" and 19" units).
4. Any number of things can cause interference, from cheap cables, to (in my case) your PSU... or a ceiling fan on the other end of the house.
5. Your A1200 is 15 years old, please don't expect absolute perfection. :) IMO Jens has done an amazing job working with this old hardware.
Obviously, scrolling will not be as smooth with the framerate conversion enabled. (This is simply mathematics, no way around it.) Pinball games are effected most, while the handful of demos I watched surprisingly didn't look as bad as I had expected. (Another thing to keep in mind is that not all Amiga games and demos feature perfect scrolling to begin with.) However, turning the scanrate option off is a 2-second task, and it switches on the fly without having to save. So in my case, primarily using a CRT, I can enjoy games games/demos at their native frequency, yet switch up the scanrate and mess around on the desktop for longer periods without the CRT burning holes to my brain. 75 vs 60Hz in NTSC is a nice improvement, with no additional strain on the chipset (slowdown) since the Indi handles all the processing. :)
I connected an older 17" Samsung PVA LCD for test, and despite a little noise in the picture (ropey VGA cable), my overall impression was positive. Text appeared just fine at 640 x 512, and the crisp, beautiful colors of Loveboat's "Beats" demo (and Hostyle Takeover, Kilofix, Grid2, Zif) looked fantastic. I'll try to steer away from making subjective comparisons (having a Cybervision 64/3D scandoubler in my A2K, and years ago a DCE A1200 scandoubler), but so far I'd say the quality of the display is more than adequate... especially when firing up your favorite game or demo.
Overall, I'm ecstatic. It was ridiculous to have a bunch of money invested into an AGA amiga for the sole purpose of watching demos, only to have to view them on a 1084. After tons of wasted time and money on LCD TVs, the JROK, etc, it's a dream to plug my A1200 into any number of nice monitors... and enjoy. :)
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Something I forgot to add, using the config tool to adjust PAL vsync rate to 1.5x (75Hz) can make scrolling *much* smoother for LCD use. Problem is many LCDs don't display 75Hz properly (http://www.behardware.com/articles/641-5/1rst-lcd-at-100-hz-the-end-of-afterglow.html) (maybe dropping a frame, or just plain not working), but worth a shot anyway.
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Ratte wrote:
HAM8-Mode supports 262,244 Colors out of 16.777.216 at the same time.
But HAM8 can´t used for the WB.
Actually, it can. If you have a hex editor to edit env:sys/screenmode.prefs (and envard:) :-)
http://aminet.net/package/driver/moni/WBHacksAGA
There are also some HAM6 and HAM8 icon collections on aminet. It would be nice if there was a HAM-ticker in the ScreenMode prefs, for 6 and 8 bit displays.
And it would be excellent if AfA could support HAM WB :-D
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samplist wrote:
262144 to be exact :roll:
It's HAM mode, there is no exact! It all depends on the contents. You cannot have any colour on any pixel.
When you combine this fact with lores PAL screens (320x256) only having 81,920 pixels, and High-Res PAL screens (640x256) only having 163,840 pixels it's kinda pointless to use the number 262,144 dont you think?
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I remember using ham icons on WB, but I stopped using it because I could never get the backdrop picture to be in HAM.
Did you ever get around that?
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Why all the fuss about RF shield modification? Remove it, it really makes a minimal amount of difference. I believe if I remember correctly Ray Carlsen or somebody actually measured RF with\without the shield. The difference was so small it made no real difference.