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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: fragment on August 25, 2003, 09:10:17 AM

Title: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: fragment on August 25, 2003, 09:10:17 AM
Aah, got my Viper 1260 from Vesalia  today  :-D

 I'll write a little review with pictures and stuff later today. The only problem now is that the driver disk is broken so I have to wait for them to email the files to me before I can try it out  :-x

Any (free) benchmarking software I should run?
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: carls on August 25, 2003, 09:17:33 AM
Congrats to your new CPU!

Don't know if it works but you could try "68060-V44_3.lha" from aminet - it's from Phase 5 but my guess is that 68060.library works anyway.

SysSpeed is a good benchmarking program IIRC.

If you haven't got a graphics card, I'd recommend you to download "fblit.lha" from Aminet, which lets you use your 060 instead of your blitter. This actually speeds AGA graphics up and it also saves a lot of chipmem.
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Damion on August 25, 2003, 10:01:51 AM
Congrats! An 060 is a very nice upgrade for the
'oldskool' Amiga. SysSpeed and P96Speed are both
good benchmarkers.

And Carls is right, FBlit is a must. You may also
want to try (in conjunction) FText (renders text
in fastram as well).

Results from P96Speed:

'PutText' without FText: 582  op/s

'PutText' with    FText: 1629 op/s
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: fragment on August 25, 2003, 12:16:01 PM
Quote

Don't know if it works but you could try "68060-V44_3.lha" from aminet - it's from Phase 5 but my guess is that 68060.library works anyway.


Well, almost worked. Boots fine etc but different software say that there is no FPU.

The filesizes on the driver diskette are:
68040.library 392 bytes
68060.library 64632 bytes

and in the archive from aminet:
68040.library 85380 bytes
68060.library 102292 bytes

Maybe I'll just wait for Vesalia to answer my mail..
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Framiga on August 25, 2003, 12:48:52 PM
@fragment

The 68040.library 392 bytes is a dummy library.

If Vesalia will not send you the right library, mail me that i'll send to you.

Ciao
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: fragment on August 25, 2003, 02:12:36 PM
Quote

Framiga wrote:
The 68040.library 392 bytes is a dummy library.


Ah, I copied the 040dummy  over the 040 one and now everything works fine:)

Sysspeed says:
73.36 MIPS
29.38 MFLOPS

It also says that the manufacturer is Apollo.
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Framiga on August 25, 2003, 03:26:14 PM
@fragment

WOW!

Thanx to the 56Mhz! 11% more that an A4000/060@50Mhz!!!

A4k_060@50Mhz:

66.25 MIPS
26.52 MFLOPS

Ciao
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Flowman on August 25, 2003, 04:08:00 PM
Yeah it looks realy nice.. time to order one =) But i want an ppc to..
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: redrumloa on August 25, 2003, 04:34:15 PM
Is this a relabeled Apollo?
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Vincent on August 25, 2003, 05:32:35 PM
Quote

redrumloa wrote:
Is this a relabeled Apollo?


With the delays on these boards, I think they're new.

Fragment - how about submitting your photos and info about the board to The Big Book of Amiga Hardware (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/) :-)
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: fragment on August 25, 2003, 05:44:36 PM
Okay, some pictures here. (http://fragment.stc.cx/viper/)

Shows a few nice last minute changes done to the board. hmm  :-P
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Varthall on August 25, 2003, 07:02:15 PM
Quote

fragment wrote:
Okay, some pictures here. (http://fragment.stc.cx/viper/)

Shows a few nice last minute changes done to the board. hmm  :-P

64 megs of "other" memory? Why they are not mapped as fast ram :-?

And what's the purpose of that voltage module?

Varthall
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: fragment on August 25, 2003, 07:14:39 PM
Quote

64 megs of "other" memory? Why they are not mapped as fast ram :-?


Well, thats AmigaOS 3.1... Other == Fast ;-)

Quote

And what's the purpose of that voltage module?


The 040 uses 5V and 060 uses 3.3V
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Piru on August 25, 2003, 07:16:33 PM
Quote
64 megs of "other" memory? Why they are not mapped as fast ram

It is. Fast memory is displayed as other memory.
There would be no way to map 64MB as ranger memory ("slow memory") anyway, maximum is 1.75MB.

Quote
And what's the purpose of that voltage module?

Apparently the same board is used for Viper 1240, where 68040 is 5V device. 68060 is 3.3V. So the voltage module adjust the 5V->3.3V.
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Piru on August 25, 2003, 07:19:13 PM
About the pictures:

I have to say that HW is not looking very professional. For example that soldering on the board is not looking too good, nor the voltage module.

But, hey, if it works and is cheap, I guess it's ok. :)
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Varthall on August 25, 2003, 08:02:18 PM
Quote

Piru wrote:
About the pictures:

I have to say that HW is not looking very professional. For example that soldering on the board is not looking too good, nor the voltage module.

Also the cpu itself, it clearly shows that it's a recycled one. It looks like it had a fan glued on its surface.

Quote

But, hey, if it works and is cheap, I guess it's ok. :)

At this price it's a purchase well worth considering :)

Varthall
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: amiga1260 on August 25, 2003, 08:35:49 PM
Do you know which company built this Vipers? Maybe DCE?
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Varthall on August 25, 2003, 09:30:40 PM
Quote

Piru wrote:
It is. Fast memory is displayed as other memory.
There would be no way to map 64MB as ranger memory ("slow memory") anyway, maximum is 1.75MB.

Ooops sorry I forgot that WB calls fast mem "other mem". It's many years since my toolbar is changed with mcp,  it shows the amount of memory as "chip ram" and "fast ram". I prefer this to "graphical" and "other".

Varthall
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Framiga on August 25, 2003, 11:22:06 PM
Quote
by Piru on 2003/8/25 20:19:13

About the pictures:

I have to say that HW is not looking very professional. For example that soldering on the board is not looking too good, nor the voltage module.

But, hey, if it works and is cheap, I guess it's ok. :)


IMHO that boards are reworked Apollo boards.

Never seen in my life, a so bad patches and resolder.

Anyway, is cheaper than a Blizzard . . .  .aarghh!! damned DCE!!! they worked so well!

Ciao


Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Framiga on August 26, 2003, 11:27:56 PM
Quote
by fragment on 2003/8/25 15:12:36
Quote:

Framiga wrote:
The 68040.library 392 bytes is a dummy library.

Ah, I copied the 040dummy over the 040 one and now everything works fine:)

Sysspeed says:
73.36 MIPS
29.38 MFLOPS

It also says that the manufacturer is Apollo.


Hi, a friend of mine, has recived the same card from Vesalia today.

He wish to know, which kind of SIMM have you installed.

He tryed a couple that doesn't works (16MB FPM and 32 MB EDO 2K refresh).

The only working SIMM is a FPM 4MB 1K refresh.

Ciao

PS- Pay attention! instal a fun cooler on the overclocked CPU as soon as possible.

Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: fragment on August 27, 2003, 09:54:55 AM
Quote

Hi, a friend of mine, has recived the same card from Vesalia today.

He wish to know, which kind of SIMM have you installed.

He tryed a couple that doesn't works (16MB FPM and 32 MB EDO 2K refresh).

The only working SIMM is a FPM 4MB 1K refresh.


This is the reason I ordered the Viper+64mb SIMM as a bundle.. It has 8x8mb chips. 50ns.

Does he have the hardware patches too?
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Brian on August 27, 2003, 11:06:27 AM
As long as the card works it's ok at that price I think, wouldn't swap my B1260 for a Viper though. :-P
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: BADHead on August 27, 2003, 11:39:30 AM
iam sticking with my Blizzard after seeing the photos
 :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Framiga on August 27, 2003, 01:47:54 PM
@BADHead

you should take in consideration, the difference in price!

A Blizzard 1260 costs near twice.

Ciao

PS- i agree with you about better construction.

By the way . . .i have interviewed a guy here in Italy, that own a radio station and has its CyberStormPPC (P5) working from 1998 24/7.
The only component that has replaced, is the original CPU fan cooler!!!
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: gnarly on August 27, 2003, 04:44:51 PM
Quote
Framiga wrote:
By the way . . .i have interviewed a guy here in Italy, that own a radio station and has its CyberStormPPC (P5) working from 1998 24/7.
The only component that has replaced, is the original CPU fan cooler!!!
Blimey, isn't that close to miraculous?!
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: oldfab on August 27, 2003, 09:35:39 PM
Hello, I am the one with memory problems with the Viper. Can you tell me the exact numbers on the chips and how many there are on your module?
Is it a parity or non-parity?
Ciao
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Framiga on August 27, 2003, 10:19:14 PM
@fragment

The Viper of the friend of mine (oldfab) is worse of yours!

It has the same patches and some capacitors, are bad soldered . . . 100% sure, recycled boards.

Ciao

PS- i don't like the way undertaken from Vesalia lately.
They already has, AOS4 for BlizzardPPC and for CSPPC in theyr price lists . . .and NOT like preordering !!!


Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: fragment on August 27, 2003, 10:43:42 PM
Quote

oldfab wrote:
Hello, I am the one with memory problems with the Viper. Can you tell me the exact numbers on the chips and how many there are on your module?
Is it a parity or non-parity?


Here is a picture of the SIMM (http://fragment.stc.cx/viper/viper_64mbsimm.jpg). Nothing on the other side.
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Wolfe on August 28, 2003, 01:06:51 AM
If ordered direct, the price is really cheap, about half, but if purchased locally here in the US, well $50 more will get you a blizzard.   :-?
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: oldfab on August 28, 2003, 01:39:53 PM
Just to add more infos, I bought Viper 1260 from Vesalia, together with Rom 3.1

Here is my bill:
Viper 1260/56 no ram   162,93
3.1 ROMs for A1200        18,97
Mailing                                21,55
German VAT on 203,45  32,55
Total Euro                         236,00

Then I found out that I had to pay 10 euro more to the ####ing Italian Poste!

I have to say that Vesalia are a little bit caotic, since I wrote them many times, last one telling them they could send the board to a friend of mine who would have been in Berlin on the second half of september, so I could have saved  at least 25 euro.
They answered me 20 days later telling me they had just sent the board!
 
Ciaio
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: oldfab on September 03, 2003, 04:43:10 PM
Hi,
Thanx for the close-up of the simm. I have asked Micron Technologies, who build the MT 4C16M4H9 chips for more infos on them. They have sent me the link to a data sheet,  http://download.micron.com/pdf/datasheets/dram/D21_2.pdf
where it state that the chips are 3.3 volts. This could be the reason my 16Mb FPM chips are not working on my Viper, since, I guess, they are 5 volts.
What do you think?
Ciao
Fabrizio

 
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Framiga on September 03, 2003, 05:23:10 PM
@oldfab

The pdf doc is the wrong one.

The MT 4C16M4H9 chips are on:

http://download.micron.com/pdf/datasheets/dram/D22_2.pdf

This is the right one. The chips are a EDO page mode 4K refresh 16x4M at 50 ns. They works at 3,3 volts ! ! !

So . . .Viper needs custom SIMMs?

Ciao

NOTE- the PDF file speaks of a LC model: MT 4LC16M4H9

Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: fragment on September 03, 2003, 06:36:16 PM
Quote

So . . .Viper needs custom SIMMs?


Not likely, Vesalia sells the same SIMMs "for Blizzard SCSI kit, 1260/50T, Blizzard PPC and all Viper accelerator boards"
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Framiga on September 03, 2003, 09:12:37 PM
Quote
by fragment on 2003/9/3 19:36:16
Quote:

So . . .Viper needs custom SIMMs?

Not likely, Vesalia sells the same SIMMs "for Blizzard SCSI kit, 1260/50T, Blizzard PPC and all Viper accelerator boards"


Oh! Vesalia sells AmigaOS4 for BizzardPPC also :-D

As you just said . . . .Vesalia sells . . .

Ciao
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: fragment on September 04, 2003, 07:50:35 PM
Quote

As you just said . . . .Vesalia sells . . .


Yeah, I still haven't received any reply after I asked them to send me the drivers via email about 10 days ago...

I wonder if any of their employees read these forums.
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Framiga on September 04, 2003, 08:28:26 PM
@fragment

the same old story!

Vesalia is a very good Amiga reseller, maybe the best in Europe, but they sells and then . . .stop. Vesalia post-sells assistance, doesn't exists.

Mail them that there is a thread here about theyr post-sells service.

Ciao

Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: xyth on September 05, 2003, 04:50:48 AM
So other than these dodgy (but temptingly cheap) Vipers from Vesalia, what other options does one have for an 060 for the 1200?

Obviously there's Ebay, but what about new boards?  Are Blizzard 1260s still being made?
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Vincent on September 05, 2003, 11:05:01 AM
Quote
Are Blizzard 1260s still being made?


IIRC, simple answer is no.

The only new boards I've heard being made are these Vipers.  I could be wrong though ;-)
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: olegil on September 05, 2003, 11:35:01 AM
The Viper _is_ tempting, I must admit.
Especially since my spare A1200 won't boot anymore, and my Apollo 1240 isn't quite upgraded to 060 yet. If I buy a Viper 060, I can spend some time getting the 1240 upgraded next year, and maybe fix/replace the second A1200...

Hmm. But not this month. Almost broke, still almost two weeks until payday :-)
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Damion on September 05, 2003, 12:20:20 PM
@Xyth

You can still get Blizard 1260's from many
retailers.

Blizzard advantages:

Solid build quality

SCSI add-on unit (which also has an extra SIMM
slot)

You can use Blizkick (the BEST rom re-kicker ever)

Disadvantages:

A little more expensive

SCSI kit still available, but not easy to find


Best bet for a rom kicker utility on this new
board may be RemApollo...or better yet
MuFastRom from Thor's package *should* work.
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: tabaka on September 06, 2003, 05:39:01 PM
Use mmulib(from aminet) - FPU will be enabled and 060 will work fine at all;-)
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: StarOne on January 28, 2004, 07:59:17 AM
what I want to know is, is it better than the Apollo cards? Is it unstable, compatible, worthy a buy and other stuff that Apollo cards aren't? I've had very bad experiences with the Apollo cards, and they even had to be in a special position for it to work properly. The Accelerator cards tend to wave from one side to the other in a Tower A1200, and that's what made Apollo so ####ing stupid. The Blizzards have no problems with this, at least not my Blizzard 1230-IV which I'm VERY satisfied with. Only now, I need a litle more speed. And Software Hut is sold out of Blizzard 1260 cards, so that's unfortunately an option. I know a norwegian store that has them on their list but they are way overpriced and I hardly believe they have any left either.
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: fragment on January 28, 2004, 11:30:16 AM
Quote

StarOne wrote:
what I want to know is, is it better than the Apollo cards? Is it unstable, compatible, worthy a buy and other stuff that Apollo cards aren't?


I have no experience with other accelerators than the Viper 060, but I haven't had any problems with it the last six months I've owned it. Games work, demos work, software work. I have also overclocked it from 56MHz to 66Mhz. I don't know about the tower stability since I have it in the original desktop case.

If I've understood correctly, Vesalia manufactures these cards themselves and seem to have them (060) in stock again, but no price mentioned.

It would be interesting to know that do these newer cards still have the patches which I have. (pic 1 (http://fragment.stc.cx/viper/viper_fix1.jpg), pic 2 (http://fragment.stc.cx/viper/viper_fix2.jpg))
Title: Re: Viper 1260 finally here!
Post by: Orjan on November 16, 2004, 03:06:46 PM

@fragment

Send the pictures of the Viper to Ian over att www.amiga-hardware.com.. :-)