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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Seiya on August 29, 2008, 06:23:06 PM
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Has someone intention to port on Amiga 68k the Allegro Library to port so many and many games?
An example very well known is Mugen that us this library.
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I have ported it to OS4 but I haven't released it yet as it is not quite finished. But when it does get released the source will be available in the official Allegro Subversion repository.
I don't plan to do a 68k version as I don't have a classic Amiga any more but with the source code released anyone can updated it to make it work on the 68k and all the hard work is already done. :-)
The only thing is that I am not sure that performance will be acceptable on 68k - even on my 800 Mhz AmigaOne it's a bit slow. It's graphics architecture isn't very easy to optimise. :-(
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BuZz where are you :-)
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I haven't been around for a while, so...
What is Allegro and where can I find information about it?
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Allegro is a multimedia programming library for several platforms. It started as an MS-DOS game making package but has since been ported to Linux, Mac, and Windows as well as several others.
Here's Allegro's homepage. (http://alleg.sourceforge.net/)
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Well, I just don't think it would be usable on an 060 Amiga so I wouldn't have much interest in porting it. And on winuae etc, you might as well run the windows version.
Well done Colin though. I'm sure we will see a morphos version once the sources are released and perhaps an aros version.
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I just downloaded the OS4 sources for Allegro off of OS4Depot. Is there still an interest on the other Amiga-likes?
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I just downloaded the OS4 sources for Allegro off of OS4Depot. Is there still an interest on the other Amiga-likes?
Yes for 68k if possible :-)
if you manage to get a working 68k version could you PM me on amigacoding.de with a download-link? I would like to integrate it in next version of Aros Vision
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I have ported it to OS4 but I haven't released it yet as it is not quite finished. But when it does get released the source will be available in the official Allegro Subversion repository.
I don't plan to do a 68k version as I don't have a classic Amiga any more but with the source code released anyone can updated it to make it work on the 68k and all the hard work is already done. :-)
The only thing is that I am not sure that performance will be acceptable on 68k - even on my 800 Mhz AmigaOne it's a bit slow. It's graphics architecture isn't very easy to optimise. :-(
it is a pretty old thread but I wanted to comment it... I will create a "lame" benchmark page comparing 68k, PowerPC and X86 (where available) where you will see that 68k on UAE (or Amithlon/Aminux) outperforms at least many of the PPC platforms. So speed is not that big issue anymore.
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it is a pretty old thread but I wanted to comment it... I will create a "lame" benchmark page comparing 68k, PowerPC and X86 (where available) where you will see that 68k on UAE (or Amithlon/Aminux) outperforms at least many of the PPC platforms. So speed is not that big issue anymore.
OK interesting, but I'm prety sure that most of emulation guys / girls, do nothing more that play superfrog once a while or something like that.
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I just downloaded the OS4 sources for Allegro off of OS4Depot. Is there still an interest on the other Amiga-likes?
Definitely. Love to see a 68k version.
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OK interesting, but I'm prety sure that most of emulation guys / girls, do nothing more that play superfrog once a while or something like that.
Even if that would be true what has that to do with what I wrote?
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OK interesting, but I'm prety sure that most of emulation guys / girls, do nothing more that play superfrog once a while or something like that.
even user who only use it for gaming are potential customers. The attitude "we are the elite, the NG user" and there are the "retros, only use it for gaming" is wrong, expecially if there are much more 68k users than all "NG" users combined. So I want to proof that you can develop on 68k with lots of power behind. Add there highly optimized libraries written in assembler for slow (from todays view) computers than you get the picture ;)
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OK interesting, but I'm prety sure that most of emulation guys / girls, do nothing more that play superfrog once a while or something like that.
Yeah because developers don't use emulation ever to save time on compiles. :sigh:
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the problem with this library on AOS4 is that the support for joypad was not done/included, so you are forced to use the keyboard, which is definately not fun for arcade games, for instance !
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If I recall correctly from back in the Dreamcast Homebrew days, doesn't Mugen at least require a 200Mhz CPU?
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If I recall correctly from back in the Dreamcast Homebrew days, doesn't Mugen at least require a 200Mhz CPU?
Looks like the minimum requirement is a 90MHz Pentium. But the Allegro library itself will run on a 386 or greater, and there's more that uses it than just Mugen.
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I think AGS (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/site/games/) alone justifies an Allegro port ;)
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even user who only use it for gaming are potential customers. The attitude "we are the elite, the NG user" and there are the "retros, only use it for gaming" is wrong, expecially if there are much more 68k users than all "NG" users combined. So I want to proof that you can develop on 68k with lots of power behind. Add there highly optimized libraries written in assembler for slow (from todays view) computers than you get the picture ;)
My point was something like this, those who emulate just want to feel like there were kids. They are not interested Amiga OS, or even think that Amiga OS could be their hobby. They are not interested to play "new games" with amiga, just super frog/super giana sister or what ever they played when they were kids.
But generally speaking ofcourse you are right, there are lots of 68k Amiga users.
68k Amiga OS even has a good hobby factor, but I'm afraid that without hardware, you can't get people tinkering with it. Windows/Linux/MacOS are so much better in every way than any Amigish OS, wich means OS 1.2-4.1, MorphOS or Aros.
By the way, I do apriciate your job with 68k Aros and I have high hopes of it.
Another new product wich I had high hopes was ACA500, but I'm afraid it has done wrong way. :( In current form it attracts only those who already has a Amiga hobby.
Jens should have made it tiny with GVP HD+8 style case, some more ram and maybe even lan, but without A1200 connector.
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Looks like the minimum requirement is a 90MHz Pentium. But the Allegro library itself will run on a 386 or greater, and there's more that uses it than just Mugen.
Not too shabby in that case. No Mugen, but if Allegro only needs a 386, then I'm sure there must be a lot out there that would run fine on my Apollo on crack and or even 030's.
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My point was something like this, those who emulate just want to feel like there were kids. They are not interested Amiga OS, or even think that Amiga OS could be their hobby. They are not interested to play "new games" with amiga, just super frog/super giana sister or what ever they played when they were kids.
But generally speaking ofcourse you are right, there are lots of 68k Amiga users.
68k Amiga OS even has a good hobby factor, but I'm afraid that without hardware, you can't get people tinkering with it. Windows/Linux/MacOS are so much better in every way than any Amigish OS, wich means OS 1.2-4.1, MorphOS or Aros.
By the way, I do apriciate your job with 68k Aros and I have high hopes of it.
Another new product wich I had high hopes was ACA500, but I'm afraid it has done wrong way. :( In current form it attracts only those who already has a Amiga hobby.
Jens should have made it tiny with GVP HD+8 style case, some more ram and maybe even lan, but without A1200 connector.
I am in contact with Jason who is the main contributor to Aros 68k (next to Toni W. regarding roms).
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/punbb/viewtopic.php?id=5
There are also at least 2 other FPGA projects that work on cores that run on standard FPGA hardware. That was my idea when I started to work on Aros Vision, to have a standard 68k platform that builds a bridge between "classic hardware", new future FPGA hardware and emulated (UAE) environments like those on AROS X86/ARM/PPC/X64 or running on its own in WinUAE and FS-UAE on Windows/Mac/Linux. For that I needed a reliable and usable distribution and I think I am there now. Next version (2.4) will be available on its own, in the new app-store of Phoeniuxconsole and on stick (AMINUX). Next phase in future will be adaption to the needs of the classic fans. BTW does anyone what is with FPGA Arcade? Pretty quiet lately...
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Don't know what you expect from using allegro, but be warned:
That lib is the most unreliable, incapable piece of software i've ever worked with on pc when coding.
Porting it means to rewrite the entire lib, as it is using cpu only for almost everything. There is no support for stuff like Amiga chipset.
Sure thing, you can make allegro run on 386, to open a screen for example. But drawing lines or moving objects gonna make you cry.
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@Calimeiro
Are you referring to the DOS version? If so then yes, I agree this is a hacker library. Are you referring to the Windows library on anything newer than XP? A Mac newer than 10.5.x Leopard? If so I'd also have to agree that this library has not aged well.
I used to run Allegro games on my Pentium III 800 MHz under Windows ME and it worked well in that environment using the Windows backend. Since the OS backend of Allegro determines how hackish it is, don't you think I can control some of the hackishness of the library by limiting it to AGA only? This will limit it to 256-color ModeX capabilities and 16-color capabilities for now.
My first priority for now is to make a software/hardware hybrid mode for the Scene Render APIs as used by AllegroGL. This means 16-color textures and 16 shading levels. The only blitter function will be the polygon fill mode to do the shading. The texture mapping will be chunky-to-planar as usual and be CPU driven at 4 bits per pixel.
My next priority is to map the ModeX capabilities from the DOS version to the equivalent Copper interrupts.
Concerns: The Blitter may not be fast enough to do much more than the poly-fills under Scene render. There isn't much open-source software for Allegro.
Perks: AllegroGL will be a good addition to the AGA chipset libraries for coders wishing to write software on their old system, especially since the OpenGL wrappers will be upward compatible to graphics cards on other operating systems such as the AROS version of Mesa.
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Yes, DOS-version made me a hater of it.
You're a tough guy if you really consider a complete re-build.
Afair, in more recent environments, allegro is shipping renderpathes to DX or GL, if possible. There is no such accelaration on Amiga. 800 Mhz vs 50 is a real showstopper.
Thumbs up for your efforts
p.s.
i had a look at this acs stuff. some of this, if allegro is really part of it, is 2d only. a port shouldn't be that hard, but then speed limits, restricted resolutions, and all of it is chunky mode. phew.