Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: sim085 on August 17, 2008, 06:58:12 AM
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Hi,
I was wondering (in the future) whether to buy a new Amiga. However I do not know which is the best Amiga to buy and worst of all I do not know what I could actually do with such an Amiga. I mean is it possible to do most of the things I already do with a PC? Or today Amiga's are used for some particular area where PC is still not that good at?
At amigakit.com they seem to still sell the A1200. Is this because this is the best Amiga out there? As much as I know the A1200 is not a PPC and the only Amiga PPC other there is the AmigaOne!
Regards,
Sim085
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You have to pick your application...if you want the best traditional Amiga...I say a heavily expanded A4000T.
If you want the best Amiga that was not an Amiga..Pegasos 2 G4 with MorphOS...hands down the ultimate in the evolution of the 'Amiga' platform.
Props go to AOS4 on the AmigaOne as a close second.
This post surely isn't very helpful :D
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sim085 wrote:
I do not know what I could actually do with such an Amiga. I mean is it possible to do most of the things I already do with a PC? Or today Amiga's are used for some particular area where PC is still not that good at?
For most things, the average pc is (much) better in day to day use, although you can ofcourse still use an Amiga for many things. It's as good as it was back then in the early 90-ies and can be used for many things (wordprocessing, databases, spreadsheets, whatever) and if you don't expect more, it still works great. It's a very nice computer, but it is (ofcourse) outdated.
If you don't know what to do with an Amiga, I am slightly puzzled why you bother to buy one, though. Best thing to do in such a case is buy an A1200 with some extra ram, an internal harddrive and enjoy the games and demos which can still be found everywhere. Don't expect it to replace your pc, though. The A1200 is more than fast enough for this, it can be easily upgraded if you feel the need and it has the AGA-chipset on board (the latest chipset from the classic Amiga-line).
If you _just_ want to play classic games, are on a tight budget and don't care for the AGA-chipset, you can also buy a second-hand A500 for next to nothing. Expand RAM to 1 MB (if this hasn't already been done so), add an extra external diskdrive and you have a hell of a classic gaming machine.
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Jiffy wrote:
For most things, the average pc is (much) better in day to day use, although you can ofcourse still use an Amiga for many things. It's as good as it was back then in the early 90-ies with and if you don't expect more, it still works great. It's a very nice computer, but it is (ofcourse) outdated.
If you don't know what to do with an Amiga, I am slightly puzzled why you bother to buy one, though. Best thing to do in such a case is buy an A1200 with some extra ram, an internal harddrive and enjoy the games and demos which can still be found everywhere. Don't expect it to replace your pc, though.
Just you wait, the 030 gang will thrash you to death once they go online with their 56k modems :lol:
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amiga 3000. best amiga ever :D
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countzero wrote:
Just you wait, the 030 gang will thrash you to death once they go online with their 56k modems :lol:
I don't expect anything else... ;-)
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JKD wrote:
You have to pick your application...if you want the best traditional Amiga...I say a heavily expanded A4000T.
If you want the best Amiga that was not an Amiga..Pegasos 2 G4 with MorphOS...hands down the ultimate in the evolution of the 'Amiga' platform.
Props go to AOS4 on the AmigaOne as a close second.
This post surely isn't very helpful :D
I agree with all of the above except I would prefer my A4000D in a PowerTower over the A4000T from Amiga Technologies. I can't say about the Commodore A4000T as I have never seen one.
Also, I have to agree with the other poster's comments about why anyone that is not very familiar with what an Amiga is and what it can and more importantly, cannot do, would want to buy an Amiga? Other than if he wanted an original Amiga instead of running WinUAE to play games, I can't recommend to anyone to buy an Amiga anymore (and I am one of its biggest fans and collectors).
If you don't already know all about Amigas, I suggest using UAE on your current computer and reading this forum for at least a year before you go spending any money on Amiga computers (sorry AmigaKit).
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As some of you may already know I already have an A500+ and I have been upgrading these last few days. I do not have any use for it but I like the idea to have it maxed out :)
However during my Amiga learning curve I noticed that only the A1200 is still sold as 'new old stock' which I understand it means and 'not already used'. This made me think that there is some type of big market for this machine and that buying one would actually be useful for something.
Said that it seems that the A500+ could be upgraded to actually match the A1200. Although I do not think that the A500+ could take an AGA card!
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sim085 wrote:
Said that it seems that the A500+ could be upgraded to actually match the A1200. Although I do not think that the A500+ could take an AGA card!
No AGA. No PCMCIA. All upgrades cost 2x-3x more.
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Sim085 wrote:
As much as I know the A1200 is not a PPC
The A1200 can have a Blizzard PPC card fitted and the A3000 & A4000 can have a Cyberstorm PPC card fitted. The cards will cost you an arm and a leg now, but you would have a machine of up to a whopping 240Mhz and be able to run AmigaOS 4.0 Classic :-)
Sim085 wrote:
A1200..... buying one would actually be useful for something.
Told you so in your other thread HERE (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37588) :-P ;-)
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Here's one tip; don't buy buy any more Amiga hardware for now! You have to take some time to think about what you want before you go any further...
Amigas are heavily outdated in the hardware and software department. A 1200 won't make a huge difference compared to a 500. The reason that they are sold new old stock is because someone found a warehouse of 1200s when Escom went bankrupt; not because of market demand!
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I will tell what the amiga can do that the pc will not, it can protect you from those who would steal from or spy on you.
As I was reading this thread I noticed the LEDs on the modem flashing away, my PC is sending data and I have no idea to whom or why, for all I know it could be sending the contents of my hard drive.
Just because you're paranoid does'nt mean they're not out to get you.
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@A6000
if thats a cable modem, its normal..
get some Linux/Unix, it is supposedly secure.
my fav Amiga is A4000D, A3000D is very close though.
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spookyx wrote:
amiga 3000. best amiga ever :D
Second vote for A3000.
Because it is the last factory-model that was designed without thinking the costs, AGA-family is full of budget-thinking (ATA/IDE, DoublePAL-modes for eating chipset-bandwidth, no "external" flickerfixer/scandoubler, etc...) And AGA-family was allready outdated when A1200&A4000 were released.
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A1200 +1 ! ;-)
easy to upgrade, and even a stock model is good
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A1200 for myself.
If you want to run OS4, the A4000 has a max ram of 128meg can be a bit limiting under OS4.
A1200 can have a max of 256 meg on a PPC.
Should be able to run most games with the help of WHD.
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If you just want to play some great games an Amiga 500 does a great job of that or if you want an even simpler solution but more expensive an Amiga CD32 could be a good choice and games for it dont run for that much on ebay and there are also a lot cd32 games available for download.
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A1200 upgraded with a flash disk rather than HD to boot and operate faster, some form of accelerator (an 030 with some extra RAM will do), Kickstart 3.1 ROMS & OS 3.1 installed with the WHDLoad software.
Better still if you can get a Scandoubler and Flickerfixer to view it in nice high flicker-free res on a run of the mill LCD monitor.
CD-drive not particularly essential for running classic games through WHDLoad and you can just transfer the CD's to PCMCIA card via a PC and access the files on the Amiga.
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I disagree with the guys saying "try WinUAE first." It's way more fun to mess with the actual hardware.
I went and bought the first Amiga that was for sale near me at a reasonable price, which happened to be an A500+. Played with it for a couple of months, upgraded as much as I could on the budget I'd set for that machine, and then moved on to a 1200. It's definitely the most bang for your buck, original hardware and upgrade-wise. I didn't stop there, though, got a 3000 and a couple of 2000s, as well as a standard 500. All great machines.
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Amiga 500,
Look at all the games, games, games you can play on it.
Favourite Amiga Games:
Agony
Shadow of the Beast 1,2,3
Walker
Starbase 13
Out of this World
Superfrog
These games rock my weekend! :-D :-D :-D
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tone007 wrote:
I went and bought the first Amiga that was for sale near me at a reasonable price, which happened to be an A500+.
Hmmm ... An NTSC 500+ ? *raises an eyebrow*
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Guess I should clarify, A500 with a rev 8a motherboard installed, purchased from Paxtron who was apparently selling them in the mid-90s in the US as upgrades.
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See, it's threads like these that need a good infusion of milspec A2000 support. :-P
If you want to tinker, an A1200 motherboard in a tower is where it's at--but you'll need a busboard of some sort if you're looking at heavy expansion.
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@Sim085
As you can see, there are lots of good opinions here.
Basically, you have two decisions to make. One is what do you want to do with your Amiga. The other is how much money do you want to spend.
"... what I could actually do with such an Amiga?"
In its day, the classic Amiga was a good all around general purpose home computer. There were word processing programs, spreadsheet programs, paint programs, music generation programs, and games. IMHO, it was already what we would now call a multimedia computer. Some Amigas were used for commercial applications. The NewTek Video Toaster created a niche market for the A2000 in broadcast video production and started the desktop video revolution. Some people have A4000T machines with Video Toaster 4000.
These days, those programs are harder to find.
"... is it possible to do most of the things I already do with a PC?"
The answer depends on what you want to do.
It is very important to remember that the classic Amiga machines and most of the earlier software came out years before WindowsXP and the modern PC hardware we have now. Most of the Amiga hardware is frozen in time, although some newer add-on cards are available for USB and ethernet connections. If you are currently using a PC with WindowsXP or Vista, then there are probably lots of things you take for granted with the software and hardware. You may have become accustomed to doing things a certain way with the PC hardware and software.
Many things we do on a PC can be done on an Amiga, using a different program or a different method or more than one step to get the job done.
So, for example, can I print my Word document that I created on the PC at work or school with my Amiga at home? No, not directly. But if you saved it in Rich Text Format (RTF) format, you may still be able to use Final Writer 97 to open the document and print it.
Another example, can I surf the net with my Amiga? Yes, if you have the correct add-on cards and software. Some web pages look different when rendered using an Amiga web browser.
Back in the day, I would surf the internet over dial-up modem at 19.2 Kbps with my A2000HD, running AmigaOS 3.1, AmiTCP/IP, ppp.device and Amiga Mosaic or AWeb. I did not have an accelerator card, so it was slow. But it worked and I was amazed. My machine had 1 MByte ChipRAM, 4 MBytes FastRAM, a 40 MByte harddrive and a CD-ROM drive. I used FTPMount to download programs. I had SMTPpost to post email and AmiPOP to retrieve email, but I was dithering over which email reader to use. I wrote a simple text only sendmail type program (in ARexx). My ISP did not support Amiga. I was on my own.
Now, back to you ...
You have your A500+. If I understand correctly, it is still a good game machine for non-AGA games. Back in the day, the A500 was a very popular model. Many people maxed out their A500 machines with a harddrive and accelerator. Not sure what parts are still available these days. Not sure if there are add-on parts for USB and network connections. Serial dial-up internet connections are still available in some areas. I recommend an accelerator and lots of RAM for any network activities.
As the others have said, "as new" A1200 machines are in stock again because a bunch of Amiga Technologies A1200 machines built several years ago during the Escom days have became available. Amigakit also sells refurbished machines. A1200 was and still seems to be a very popular model. If I understand correctly, it is also a good game machine for games using the AGA chipset. Apparently, it is easier to obtain expansion cards and kits for the A1200. Again, I recommend an accelerator and lots of RAM for any network activities.
There are also the other machines, the A2000, A2000HD, A2500, A3000D, A3000T, A4000D and A4000T. These all have separate keyboards and expansion slots inside the system case.
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redfox
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@ Sim085
Maxing the hardware is cool but without software that needs it, it seems a hollow pursuit. What software categories are you interested in?
There are many past forums on this site where the best text editor, word processor, music sequencer, browser, sky simulator, dir utility, image editor, Mp3 player, calculator, mailer, PDA interface, FTP, Mpeg viewer, pop-up notepad, program launcher, database, spreadsheet, programming environment, system diagnostic, presentation/authoring, screensaver, amortizer, CD writer, Mac emulator, fax, font editor, family tree, organizer, etc are debated. The Amiga has every kind of software, much of it for free on Aminet. It plays some cool games, too. (I'm not sure anyone mentioned that). Your now "not so humble" A500 can run nearly all of this stuff.
Try it out.
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Regarding AmigaPPC and the AmigaOne ...
I have been running OS4 for 3 years and 8 months. I am currently running the AmigaOS 4.0 July 2007 Update. I use my Micro AmigaOne every day. I run most of my applications from the OS4 Workbench, but I also have the AmigaOS4/PPC version of E-UAE available for some old favourites that want to see the classic Amiga chipset. For those programs, I launch E-UAE on my OS4 Workbench. E-UAE opens in fullscreen mode and then I run the old program on my AmigaOS 3.1 Workbench. :-D
My system has worked very well right from day one. Of course, I've had the usual teething problems associated with attempting to run very old software on a much newer operating system. Also, a few minor bugs to chase down along the way. I was using an old Maxtor harddrive from an old HP pc. It finally gave up the ghost at the end of June this year. Now using a Western Digital harddrive.
My advice regarding the AmigaOne hardware ... Warning, please approach with caution.
The AmigaOne SE, AmigaOne XE and Micro AmigaOne (aka MicroA1 or µA1-C) are manufacturer discontinued. They were produced in very low volume production runs, so there are very few boards of each type available world-wide. Some of the chips are no longer manufactured, so repairs can become very expensive. There have been some horror stories online about the quality of the boards and the northbridge chip. I won't pull any punches here. I can't deny the stories, because some of them are still current. Of course, the unhappy owners are more outspoken than the happy ones, so it is hard to know if they are the minority or the majority.
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redfox
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@Sim085
@Tenacious
I humbly appologize to anyone who thought I was belittling the A500 in any way. That was not my intention at all.
Tenacious has made some really good points in his short post. I never had an A500 and it is many years since I have seen or used one. I keep forgetting that my stock A2000HD had similar clock speed and CPU specs as the A500. My machine came with a harddrive. I added a some more RAM and a CD-ROM drive but it was never anywhere close to maxed out. Yet it ran lots of different software and was a pleasure to use. We had some commercial software packages, including Amiga Appetizer, MicroFiche Filer, Amiga Vision and Final Writer, some games, children's software and a CD with part of the Fred Fish collection. I also keep forgetting about Aminet, where I found much of the software I used to get online with that machine.
Sim085, I hope you have fun with your A500. Maxed out or not it should be able to run any of the 68000 software just fine (as long as it is for the 68000 CPU).
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redfox
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Thanks to everyone for the replies :)
I think I will stick with A500+ for the moment and see what I can do with this machine. I am sure that once I receive all the parts I ordered I will get new ideas on what can be done with it :)
I was very tempted of buying A1200 because it is still for sale and seems to be easy to upgrade. However as said I have no use for it so for the moment I'll give it a pass!
Thanks :)
Sim085
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As everyone has stated, it depends on what you want to use it for, but personally, my best experience with an expanded amiga is/was my mediator equipped voodoofied a4k while it worked flawlessly, extremely responsive, even with the 030ec/25 mhz board in there, and with the 060, oh boy.
Personally i've decided that the best route for me and my 1200 that was supposed to stay stock, is to get the indivision aga, and add a 060 with loads of memory.
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@ Redfox
No sweat!
@ Sim085
There is no rush. Trying all the software you can find will help you know how to proceed. Probably, 90% of Amiga software was designed to be runable on an unexpanded A500. Browsing, Mp3s, and movie trailers usually require more horsepower or special expansions. (Try Googling "Amiga MasPlayer".)
Also, there are many here who have greatly expanded systems, and others who have large collections. The secret is to bide your time and wait for good (or free) deals. Instant gratification is what makes Amigas expensive.
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thinking about it, if i calmed down on my "to the max" ideas :-) and actually spent some time sorting just one machine out software wise, some of the other posts reminded me that, most amiga software is very happy with one or two megs of ram. and going back to the day, how i would have killed just for a hard disk for monkey island2 or ledgend of kyrandia :-D
the A1200 seems to be the best for basic expansion.
you can find accelerators/ram cards with little to no fuss.
internal IDE for cheap hard disks.
and a PCMCIA port for network cards/compact flash adapters for easy copy files from PC.
and of course, their relatively ubiquitous availability.
otherwise, asking people here for "the best amiga" will lead to a variety of opinions :-D
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The 'best' Amiga is the one or ones YOU personally own.
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If you are looking at just getting into Amiga. The most common application for it is retro-gaming. I'd recommend an accelerated A1200 with hard drive and a license of WHDLoad for that. (I'd also buy a new AGA flixer fixer for it from AmigaKit so you can use a modern VGA display.)
Using an Amiga as your primary machine versus a cheap modern PC is not likely to be the experience you'd expect.
As for what is the best Amiga - I'd say the A3000+ prototype A3000 with AGA, of course it was never mass produced.
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Id say the 1200, doen't cost you an arm and a leg (or your whole body for experimental tests) and it's massivly expandable. Oh not to mention that it also has AGA which is a great bonus. Not only that, it brought modern affordable comuting to the masses, though a little too late sadly.
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sim085 wrote:
...the best Amiga...
One that still works... :-D
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I think all of mine work, or, at least, none have died of old age.
A 1200 and a 600 suffered mishaps from previous owners.
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alexh wrote:
sim085 wrote:
Said that it seems that the A500+ could be upgraded to actually match the A1200. Although I do not think that the A500+ could take an AGA card!
No AGA. No PCMCIA. All upgrades cost 2x-3x more.
An prototype AGA expansion (AGA Go! kit; DCE?) for OCS Amigas had been presented/demoed at one of the Amiga trade fairs in Cologne/Germany in the early ninetees.
But it never went into production, IIRC.
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A4000_Mad wrote:
Sim085 wrote:
As much as I know the A1200 is not a PPC
The A1200 can have a Blizzard PPC card fitted and the A3000 & A4000 can have a Cyberstorm PPC card fitted. The cards will cost you an arm and a leg now, but you would have a machine of up to a whopping 240Mhz and be able to run AmigaOS 4.0 Classic :-)
...
Well, I'm not aware of the current second hand prices, but back in November 1997 - the first day ever the Phase5 CyberstormPPC cards were available at the Amiga trade fair here in Cologne - I payed 2400 DM (= 1200 €) for it with only 64 mB of RAM.
The CybervisionPPC (8 mB) was around 570 DM (= 285 €).
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redfox wrote:
@Sim085
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Not sure if there are add-on parts for USB and network connections.
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AFAIK you can get an clockport (like the A1200 has) interface for the A500 ( A500 clockport interface (http://www.vesalia.de/e_a500clockport.htm) ), to which you can connect either an ZorroII Highway card or clockport Subway card from E3B (http://www.e3b.de/usb/index_e.html).
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EDIT:
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I forgot to mention that a minimum requirement for the "Subway" is a 68030 CPU @ 25 mHz. So if you want to have USB in an A500, you gotta get hold of an A500-accelerator with at least an 68030 @ 25 mHz.
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I could very well imagine that there are USB-NICs available that basically should enable your A500 for broadband access
(if browsing the web is much fun with those specs remains to be seen - in case you try it your report would be very welcome here, I think).
As driver serves the Anaiis USB stack for limited Amigas:
anaiis.readme (http://de5.aminet.net/driver/other/anaiis.readme)
EDIT:
There's a thread on this topic at amigaworld.net (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=23159&forum=27&start=20&23)
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Natami!!! http://www.natami.net/ 8-)
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Natami!!! http://www.natami.net/
as excited as i am by the natami project, it doesn't exist yet to the general public outside of some awesome dev boards, and no news on the hardware since february... how is it going? :-? i'm worried it might die a death before ever seeing a production run :-(
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I read the Natami specifications a little and I have a single question;
Doesn't the Natami risk to be out of date from day one?
Or the new Natami will be so advanced that it could possibly replace today's pc?
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sim085 wrote:
I read the Natami specifications a little and I have a single question;
Doesn't the Natami risk to be out of date from day one?
Or the new Natami will be so advanced that it could possibly replace today's pc?
It won't replace today's PC, but that is not what it is intended for.
It will be a great replacement for Classic Amiga hardware that is getting old and perhaps starting to have some component failures. It is also aimed at being the best 680x0 style Amiga ever produced. I hope there is nothing that stops this project.
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Yes, the NATAMI is like the next model of a beautiful vintage car, a model that was originally never built, and that’s what’s makes the whole project so amazing. I saw some guy over at the NATAMI forum trying to mock the specs and compare it to PC boredom. I thought you poor soul; you can’t see it can you. You really can’t see how brilliant this project is and how unlikely this is.
I also hope that the finished NATAMI comes in a case that design vise is like a continuation of the original cases, so one feels completely at home.
:-)
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A2000 all the way!
Simple test:
Pick up an A2000 and drop it from about 3 feet onto an A1200 and note the damage to the A1200.
Pick up an A1200 and drop it from about 3 feet onto an A2000 and note the damage to the A2000.
How much more proof do you need? ;-)
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Darrin wrote:
A2000 all the way!
Simple test:
Pick up an A2000 and drop it from about 3 feet onto an A1200 and note the damage to the A1200.
Pick up an A1200 and drop it from about 3 feet onto an A2000 and note the damage to the A2000.
How much more proof do you need? ;-)
Does that include a series of heavy expansions on the A1200??
If so, the case is not entirely settled. :lol:
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ZeBeeDee wrote:
The 'best' Amiga is the one or ones YOU personally own.
I agree!
When I had I A600 I didn't complain :). Wordworth was working fine, TurboCalc was doing nice graphs, and CanonFodder on TV was amazing!
Today I complain, that my Voodoo "refresh" my screens to slow, and my Apollo 040 is playing mp3 "slow" so...
As I mentioned somewhere... I like to change hardware and my A1200 is really nice for "tunning" :D. For someone who don't have any Amiga a A500 is nice, not to expensive and will give you a good idea of the Workbench and AmigaOS...
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cicero790 wrote:
Pick up an A2000 and drop it from about 3 feet onto an A1200 and note the damage to the A1200.
Pick up an A1200 and drop it from about 3 feet onto an A2000 and note the damage to the A2000.
How much more proof do you need? ;-)
Does that include a series of heavy expansions on the A1200??
If so, the case is not entirely settled. :lol: [/quote]
LOL. OK, I'll add 5 Zorro SCSI cards to the A2000 complete with 5 20MB 3.5" Quantum hard drives and a 5.25" floppy. :-D
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Darrin wrote:
cicero790 wrote:
Pick up an A2000 and drop it from about 3 feet onto an A1200 and note the damage to the A1200.
Pick up an A1200 and drop it from about 3 feet onto an A2000 and note the damage to the A2000.
How much more proof do you need? ;-)
Does that include a series of heavy expansions on the A1200??
If so, the case is not entirely settled. :lol:
LOL. OK, I'll add 5 Zorro SCSI cards to the A2000 complete with 5 20MB 3.5" Quantum hard drives and a 5.25" floppy. :-D[/quote]
That's a hard load to take. The only thing that could match that would be a A1200 built into that steel tower bunker that a saw a picture of the other day. But that could be concidered cheeting, so A2000 rules the waves. :lol:
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Darrin wrote:
A2000 all the way!
Simple test:
Pick up an A2000 and drop it from about 3 feet onto an A1200 and note the damage to the A1200.
Pick up an A1200 and drop it from about 3 feet onto an A2000 and note the damage to the A2000.
How much more proof do you need? ;-)
I think my brain would lose miserably in that same contest with the A2000. What a scary thought...
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cicero790 wrote: ...so A2000 rule the waves. :lol:
I take it then ya haven't hefted a fully loaded A3000 Tower? :-o
VideoToaster
PAR,with 2 xtra HDs
TBCIV
AD516 with 1 xtra HD
FastlaneZIII
2 system HDs
Exabyte tape backup
See unit here when it was still alive... (http://rcfreas.com/files/A3000TVT.jpg)
:-D
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T3000 wrote:
cicero790 wrote: ...so A2000 rule the waves. :lol:
I take it then ya haven't hefted a fully loaded A3000 Tower? :-o
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So this boils down into two separate issues: The best Amiga and the most crash prof model, which is no doubt something to take into consideration before buying. :roll: :-)
I agree with an earlier post. The best Amiga is the one you have. SW or HW.
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"Best" is a very subjective term.
To purists, the Amiga 1000 is the best, since it is the original Amiga.
The Amiga 1200/4000 appeals to those looking for the most technically advanced Amiga. These two come close to matching modern PC's for capabilities.
My personal "Best" is the A500/A2000 duo. This pair represents the high point in the Amiga's history. Amiga was still ahead of the game for price and performance, and Commodore was at the top of its game. I like the A500 for its profile, and the A2000 for its tinkering factor.
It's all subjective, and it's all personal.
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The only things that will survive a nuclear holocaust: roaches and A2000s.
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tone007 wrote:
The only things that will survive a nuclear holocaust: roaches and A2000s.
... and a pair of Speelgoedmannetje's cheesy socks :lol: