Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: tonyyeb on August 10, 2008, 08:57:16 AM
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Hi all
Anyone who has read my postings for the last week will know that I have been struggelling to get my A3000 running. It came to me with only a keyboard and a mouse. Bog standard. No easy of getting stuff from my PC to it. CrossDOS didn't work (KS is 2.0 not 2.04), no SCSI CD ROM to hand (was watching 20 on ebay at the time!).
So after buying a buddha IDE card from AmigaKit.com (great service, arrived next day!) and installing it with a 2.5" laptop hard drive, I eventually got HDtoolbox to partition it and then formatted it. A few glitches and simple (over eager!) mistakes by me later I was able to mount the newly partitioned drive in UAE using a 2.5" USB hard drive caddy. I could then copy files and ADFs to be written by TSGUI.
I had some great help and advice from fellow forum members, some even posting me disks! So here is the reward... some eyecandy of my naked A3000 running Oh No! More Lemmings! (it was the first one I got working!).
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/tonyyeb/P1010705.jpg)
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/tonyyeb/P1010709.jpg)
As for future plans:
* Some Kickstart 3.1 ROMs are on their way from the US
* About to order a CF-IDE adaptor for easier data transfer
* Tempted by a Amiga-PC networking kit (£15 from ebay, are these any good?)
* Failing that an X-SURF card
* Might remove the insides and mount in a new tower case to allow the install of CD/DVD Rom and new uprated PSU (are these available to buy or is it s simple mod of an ATX psu?) Keep the old case for when it is time to sell on
* Clean the keyboard and mouse with H202 (get new ones?)
Any other ideas / suggestions?
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I dont think you could have KS2.0! Either you have KS1.4 (SuperKickstart that loads kickstart files from the hard drive) which then loads KS2.0 or you have KS2.04!
If you had KS1.4 I could have sent you the 3.1 files ;-)
If you are going to order a IDE->CF adapter, why not consider a back panel one (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290250813036)? Makes it relatively clean and easy to install and gives you access to remove, transfer to the PC and copy over files.
If you use the CF card as a way to transfer files to the Amiga you wont need a network card or transfer kit. You'll be able to transfer files 10x faster than either too!
The A3000 case is a very nice case, I would not be in a hurry to get rid of it for some s#!t quality PC tower case which doesn't quite fit the Zorro slots with the back panel!
If you want an optical drive, why not use an external SCSI enclosure (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200245017284) and a SCSI drive (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250247170298) (ignore the photo in this advert it is not a 303S DVD drive) and connect to the A3000 external SCSI connector? Remember when you get the Amiga (25 pin D-type) to SCSI-1 (50-pin Centronics) cable it needs to be wired MAC style (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250277836415)
But trust me you won't need an optical drive if you get a CF card or a network card. I've not used my Amiga optical drive in years and years!
Unless they are broken... just clean your keyboard and mouse. If you take the keyboard to bits and wash them you'll be amazed how well they come up.
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alexh wrote:
I dont think you could have KS2.0! Either you have KS1.4 (SuperKickstart that loads kickstart files from the hard drive) which then loads KS2.0 or you have KS2.04!
If you had KS1.4 I could have sent you the 3.1 files ;-)
You are right. It is 1.4 but upon booting (without double mouse button hold) it goes into 2.0 - thats why I said that. You can still send me the 3.1 files if you want while I wait for the ROMs to arrive.
If you are going to order a IDE->CF adapter, why not consider a back panel one (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290250813036)? Makes it relatively clean and easy to install and gives you access to remove, transfer to the PC and copy over files.
If you use the CF card as a way to transfer files to the Amiga you wont need a network card or transfer kit. You'll be able to transfer files 10x faster than either too!
I was thinking of a back panel one. And true it would do away with the need for the networking.
If you want an optical drive, why not... SNIP ...I've not used my Amiga optical drive in years and years!
You are right again. Waste of time/money if get the CF-IDE.
Unless they are broken... just clean your keyboard and mouse. If you take the keyboard to bits and wash them you'll be amazed how well they come up.
I'll give that a go.
I forgot to say in my original post that I have also got a replacement battery. The other one looks ok but as it will be getting on a bit i thought it best to replace it. Im guessing this is just a desolder old one and solder new one on? There was a disk for backing up settings that came with it to run first.
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tonyyeb wrote:
You are right. It is 1.4 but upon booting (without double mouse button hold) it goes into 2.0
?? You should not need to hold down both mouse buttons. I notice you have a floppy disk inserted in the photographs... do you need that to boot? You wont soon :)
If you hold down both mouse buttons after you switch on the A3000 you will be prompted to choose the operating system version to use. You can either bootstrap Kickstart 2.x and Kickstart 1.3 from hard disk or from floppy disk. BUTIf you don't hold down any mouse buttons the boot ROMs will bootstrap the Kickstart from hard disk, using the partition with the highest boot priority. Normally, this is the Kickstart 2.x boot partition.
tonyyeb wrote:
You can still send me the 3.1 files if you want while I wait for the ROMs to arrive.
Sure, see PM (in 5 mins). Do you know what to do with it?
The hard disk partitions must be named "WB_2.x" and "WB_1.3" (note: these are devices names like "DF0", *not* volume names) and the Kickstart files must be in "WB_2.x:devs/kickstart" and "WB_1.3:devs/kickstart". The partitions must be formatted either in standard filing system or fast filing system format.
You copy the file I'll send to Devs: (so you have a file called Devs:kickstart).
You'll probably have to rename your hard drive partition (not it's icon name) using HDToolbox to WB_2.x to get it to work.
You do not need a WB_1.3 partition if you do not want to.
Obviously the 3.1 Superkickstart file goes in the WB_2.x partition :-)
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alexh wrote:
?? You should not need to hold down both mouse buttons.
If you hold down both mouse buttons after you switch on the A3000 you will be prompted to choose the operating system version to use. You can either bootstrap Kickstart 2.x and Kickstart 1.3 from hard disk or from floppy disk. If you don't hold down any mouse buttons the boot ROMs will bootstrap the Kickstart from hard disk, using the partition with the highest boot priority. Normally, this is the Kickstart 2.x boot partition.
Yes that is what I meant. Maybe i didn't word it correctly. Basically if you dont do anything it boots to 2.x.
Sure, see PM (in 5 mins). Do you know what to do with it?
Cheers and no i don't!
The hard disk partitions must be named "WB_2.x" and "WB_1.3" ...SNIP
They are named correctly. So simply replace devs/kickstart with the one you have and away I go. Boot to 3.1?
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tonyyeb wrote:
So simply replace devs/kickstart with the one you have and away I go. Boot to 3.1?
Yup. You'll need to upgrade Workbench etc. to 3.1 to get any real benefit but yeah.
As you probably know using a SuperKickstart eats 512Kbytes of RAM which you'll get back once your real ROM's arrive.
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I'm sure I dont need to tell you this, but back up your old devs/kickstart just in case.
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Have you considered a gfx card? While a little extravagant, especially if all you use your Amiga for is WHDload, they bring the Amiga desktop alive. And unlike an accelerator they are relatively cheap. Picasso II+ would be good? Cybervision 64/3D?
In order to fit an accelerator (with SCSI) in your A3000 you will have to check to see if the INT2 modification has been done to your A3000 motherboard. You might want to do this before you start screwing things back together, perhaps at the same time you are soldering in the battery as it requires the motherboard to be removed from the case. It's not particularly difficult, but you'll need a good quality soldering iron (not a maplins £9.99 one) and some practice on something that can be thrown away (An Atari ST or something!)
It would also be good to consider checking what Buster you have before getting any cards / accelerator and perhaps investing in a rev 11?
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alexh wrote:
..... If you are going to order a IDE->CF adapter, why not consider a back panel one (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290250813036)? Makes it relatively clean and easy to install and gives you access to remove, transfer to the PC and copy over files.
Cool device location for big box Amigas, thanks for that link.
Auction specs say it cannot be "hot swapped", but by using the tray icon for "remove hardware safely", I have hot swapped CF cards in 7 port Card Reader of my Dell WinXP Pro tower. Do you know if a CF card can be hot swapped from this or any similar device installed in an Amiga?
I am thinking of getting one of the back panel IDE->CF adapters for my A4000D in a PowerTower as everything is now connected to the CSPPC SCSI chain and it would be nice if it could be taken in and out of the Amiga and PC without having to cold boot either of them.
Another thing I have been thinking of is to add a second optical drive, a CDRW, that is IDE-Atapi and connect it to the A4000D's mobo IDE controller through a 4way buffered IDE interface from Schoenfeld/AmigaKit along with one of these back panel IDE->CF adapters.
Has anyone installed one of those 4way buffered IDE interfaces to an A4000's IDE controller? I have only read about them being used in A1200's, or A600's. Will this 4way buffered IDE interface be much faster than the slow mobo IDE controller on the A4000?
(apology for the thread jack)
Edit: The Dell PC Card Reader is USB which explains why it can be hot swapped, so I guess I have answered part of my question myself.
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Just an advice from a fellow Amigan, dont forget to open your windows when soldering, the fumes can make you dizzy.
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Have you considered a gfx card? While a little extravagant, especially if all you use your Amiga for is WHDload, they bring the Amiga desktop alive. And unlike an accelerator they are relatively cheap. Picasso II+ would be good? Cybervision 64/3D?
The Picasso II would be alright, but getting a CV64/3D would be a waste, when he can get a CV64 with a build in monitor switcher instead. The CV64 is the ideal card for an A3000.
Will this 4way buffered IDE interface be much faster than the slow mobo IDE controller on the A4000?
It will be just as slow as the onboard IDE controller.
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amigadave wrote:
Edit: The Dell PC Card Reader is USB which explains why it can be hot swapped, so I guess I have answered part of my question myself.
Yup. PATA-IDE is never(?) hot-swap, not even in a PC.
amigadave wrote:
Will this 4way buffered IDE interface be much faster than the slow mobo IDE controller on the A4000?
It connects to the slow mobo IDE controller and so it will be the same speed. The only interface which can accelerate the internal IDE is an "IDE-Fix Express" which does not work in the A4000.
If you want fast IDE on Amiga you have to get either a FastATA from Elbox or a Deneb and USB->IDE adapter.
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doctorq wrote:
getting a CV64/3D would be a waste, when he can get a CV64 with a build in monitor switcher instead. The CV64 is the ideal card for an A3000.
I disagree, the price difference means that if you have a dual input monitor then consider get a CV64/3D
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I disagree, the price difference means that if you have a dual input monitor then consider get a CV64/3D
And I disagree with you on this one, but if you are fine with fiddling around switching back and forth, when it could be done automatically, then fine with me.
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I have dual input on my monitor (HDMI to my PC and VGA to my A3000). Whats the difference between the two cards in relation to the monitor?
Whats the cost of the two cards?
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@alexh,
Thanks for the info about IDE-Fix Express and the A4000. I think I read that somewhere a long time ago, but had half forgotten it.
What about the IDE controller on a Buddah Flash Zorro card? Does it compare to the FastATA from Elbox, or the Deneb? I already have a Buddah card, but have never installed or used it, as I just recently acquired it (few months ago) used from someone with a pile of other items.
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tonyyeb wrote:
Whats the difference between the two cards in relation to the monitor?
One of them has a built in monitor switcher so you plug the VGA out of the A3000 into the gfx card and then the gfx card into the monitor and when there is nothing on one of the screens it automatically switches to the other. Basically it switches between workbench (which will come from the gfx card) and games (which will come from the A3000 motherboard) automatically. Very similar to the old Voodoo cards if you remember those?
tonyyeb wrote:
Whats the cost of the two cards?
The CV64/3D (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230275943419) is usually about £65-85 and the CV64 is £120-150. But they can both go for much more if there are two people who want one. Over £150 you are entering PicassoIV prices.
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alexh wrote:
Very similar to the old Voodoo cards if you remember those?
Certainly do.
The CV64/3D (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230275943419) is usually about £65-85 and the CV64 is £120-150. But they can both go for much more if there are two people who want one. Over £150 you are entering PicassoIV prices.
Hmmm, reality check. Bought a 8800GTS for my PC three weeks ago for £45 inc P&P second hand!
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Just a quick question about changing the kickstart file. If when I do it and I reboot, what do I do if it doesn't boot? How do i restore the old one?
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tonyyeb wrote:
Hmmm, reality check. Bought a 8800GTS for my PC three weeks ago for £45 inc P&P second hand!
Amiga hardware is roughly 2x the price of PC stuff. So £45 becomes £90!
But like I said, a gfx card is an extravagance if all you want to do is play WHDload games.
How much RAM you got? 2+16?
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alexh wrote:
If you want fast IDE on Amiga you have to get either a FastATA from Elbox or a Deneb and USB->IDE adapter.
Or use SCSI to IDE bridge (has the potential of being the fastest IDE on amiga especially when used with SCSI on turbo cards).
However Deneb would give you also hotswapping card readers and cheap networking too.
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tonyyeb wrote:
Just a quick question about changing the kickstart file. If when I do it and I reboot, what do I do if it doesn't boot? How do i restore the old one?
You are using a PC and UAE to transfer the file? Back up the old one to devs/kickstart_old during the copy process and if it doesn't boot (it will!) you just put the drive back in the PC and rename the old file back?
Once you've confirmed that the kickstart file works, put it back in the PC and install Workbench 3.1 (or 3.9) :-)
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alexh wrote:
You are using a PC and UAE to transfer the file? Back up the old one to devs/kickstart_old during the copy process and if it doesn't boot (it will!) you just put the drive back in the PC and rename the old file back?
Once you've confirmed that the kickstart file works, put it back in the PC and install Workbench 3.1 (or 3.9) :-)
But I have workbench installed on the existing SCSI 100mb drive not my 2.5" drive.
EDIT: I can sort it by booting WB2.05 to the AmigaDOS screen and loadwb from the HD.
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D'oh of course. KS1.4 probably doesn't support loading via anything other than the internal SCSI anyhow.
Make a SuperKickstart floppy disk using this tool?
http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/MakeSuperDisk
With this emergency disk.. if anything goes wrong you'll be able to recover.
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All done! Kickstart 40.70 reported by version.
Now I guess installing Workbench 3.1 is a matter of putting in the install 3.1 disk and double clicking install?
Is there a way to virtually mount ADF's so they look like real disks to the Amiga? The reason I ask is that I only have a few floppies to write the ADFs too and I've had quite a few failures writing ADFs to them.
EDIT: To answer my own second question I found ADF Device (http://bfugl.dk/Download.asp). Going to try it now.
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tonyyeb wrote:
Now I guess installing Workbench 3.1 is a matter of putting in the install 3.1 disk and double clicking install?
You will need to insert the other (5?) disks when prompted : Workbench, Locale, Storage, Fonts, Extras
Workbench 3.9 is of course a CD (ISO)
I still recommend making a SuperKickstart disk in case of emergency until you KS3.1 ROM's arrive. If the hard disk gets wiped you'll be screwed without one. (Although you might be able to use the secret 1.4 widget in the top corner of the KS selection screen to get a floppy disk to partially boot)
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tonyyeb wrote:
Is there a way to virtually mount ADF's so they look like real disks to the Amiga? The reason I ask is that I only have a few floppies to write the ADFs too and I've had quite a few failures writing ADFs to them.
EDIT: To answer my own second question I found ADF Device (http://bfugl.dk/Download.asp). Going to try it now.
Another option is to mount a couple of RAD drives & extract to them instead of floppies. Much much faster too, but non-DOS disks will still be unreadable! ;-)
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@Kin-Hell
You'd have to screw around with ASSIGN if you did that??
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yeah alexh, possibly! ..Depending on the software he`s extracting to the RAD drives.
He`d also have to edit RAD in storage DEVS: & save them as their own Logical devices too.
Perhaps I`m showing meh age again, but then I am old School when it comes to Amigas! ;-)
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Kin-Hell wrote:
Another option is to mount a couple of RAD drives & extract to them instead of floppies. Much much faster too, but non-DOS disks will still be unreadable! ;-)
ADF Device worked like a charm. Now got Workbench 3.1 installed on my HD. Just wish the partition for system2.0 was slightly bigger than 10mb.
Also got all the buddha stuff installed now.
Thanks alexh for all the help and tips. Now off to order a IDE-CF for my Amiga and a Front panel CF reader for my PC... and a CF card of course ;-)
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Nice to hear.
Shame you already bought the Buddha or I would have recommended a (£15-20) Acard AEC-7720U SCSI-IDE adapter. You would have been able to connect your 2.5" drive (or 3.5" drive) direct to the internal SCSI.
If you've not already bought it... please consider registering WHDload (http://www.whdload.de). Perhaps the best software for classic Amiga's and at £15 it's a steal!
Plus Bert and the others are great guys and deserve our support.
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Is that price used? I can only see it for $75. The buddha was only £38 new. I'm guessing it would be faster than the buddha - but then it is still quick (in Amiga terms).
Next job is to look at installing WHDload along with my favorite games (might wait until CF stuff arrives). And yes they will be getting the registration fee when done... it is an excellent product.
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290184276927
Not faster, but being DMA it would use less CPU power.
£38 is not a bad price. Below the W.A.F. price
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W.A.F. price?
Can you have multiple devices with that card? (I'm guessing not and you need multiple cards for multiple devices?)
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W.A.F. = Wife Acceptance Factor
It's the amount a husband can spend on random purchases and not get it in the neck by his wife. I work in the consumer electronics industry and they plot this W.A.F. on graphs to try to work out what price to make set-top-boxes, DVD-players, external hard drives, and all other impulse buys in supermarkets.
Last time I looked it was £19.99 for things she would never use upto £49.99 for things that she might use occasionally.
No you cannot have multiple devices on the card... but you can have multiple cards per SCSI host (upto 6)
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alexh wrote:
W.A.F. = Wife Acceptance Factor
It's the amount a husband can spend on random purchases and not get it in the neck by his wife. I work in the consumer electronics industry and they plot this W.A.F. on graphs to try to work out what price to make set-top-boxes, DVD-players, external hard drives, and all other impulse buys in supermarkets.
lol! Well so far my bill is:
* Buddha - £38
* Battery - £4
* Kickstart 3.1 ROMs - £22
So £64. The Amiga was free so I guessed if I was to sell I would be easily breaking even if not a little profit.
Bill will go up when I order the CF-IDE for my Amiga and CF reader for my PC but not by much, plus the CF reader and CF card will still be usable.
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You would be amazed but there is also a W.A.S. which is a Wife Acceptance Size.
Apparently they do not like clutter and so the smaller your gadgets are the less they complain about the purchase, indirectly of price. It's some strange inverse bell curve. They get more upset the smaller and more expensive it is and bigger and less expensive... very strange stats.
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alexh wrote:
It's some strange inverse bell curve. They get more upset the smaller and more expensive it is and bigger and less expensive...
Large inexpensive = "Large piece of worthless junk"
Small expensive = "How much?! For this tiny piece of crap!"